Thats what i thought but holy shit its so much worse.

Its not even data that is needed for outlook but like pretty much everything on your pc.

including your username and password, send in clear text

I agree with the article’s statement. How the fuck is this legal.

Fair point, but invalid point when they are right.

They can leech all the data they want from my employer. I don’t give a fuck. Never use company assets for personal business as an addendum.

Just be a little more careful with your own stuff, s’all.

Let me introduce you to davmail.sourceforge.net

Yes it works pretty fine with stupid O365. You can basically use whatever mailclient you desire with it.

pretty sure when you bring that up to your company, that another company will have access to internal communication, that they will do something against it. It’s a willing data breach.

Why is your corp using the free mail app in windows??

Corporations will just have a contract that guarantees no harmful use of their data and not care about the details. They just want the lines to be able to sue if there’s an issue in the future. And honestly, I don’t see the issue with companies agreeing to collect data on each other. The issue is with private life, which should never be shared on company tools.

Worth noting that Outlook the Office suite component, and Outlook, the freebie mail client that comes with Windows, are not the same thing. They’re just named the same because yadda yadda executives yadda yadda name recognition yadda yadda brand synergy.

Unless your employer is one of the very few that doesn’t provide Office to its users, this isn’t about the version you are required to use.

well, as far as you use it just for your work, who cares, right? It’s the same as I’d never use Lastpass, my corp use it and even offered it for our personal use :D thanks, but no thanks! For personal use I would never use any microsoft solution.

For consumers, yeah they scan your shit to sell advertisements to you. For Business customers —that could get real illegal real quick.

What was the hardest thing about the transition?

Mail was so clean thunderbird isn’t as nice

I use Outlook on my work Mac, and am forever amazed at how hard they pushed on getting me to switch to “New” Outlook, but how many features they never bothered to port over. Like, I can’t export my mailbox without having to switch it back to ‘old’ Outlook. Calendars straight up don’t work half the time and there’s no obvious button to switch from a list of events for the month, back to a monthly calendar view.

Outlook for Mac is a fucking mess. I really do need to switch over to Thunderbird.

Does thunderbird support exchange protocols or just IMAP

You understand how the internet protocol works right. This argument has been going for a long time now. Yes, they gave up IP address because they couldn’t win in court. They’re like the only company who will fight tooth and nail for you in court but the feds ordered them to do so, so they had to comply. The messages were all end to end encrypted and other than what metadata was requested, they didn’t get much.

Edit: Additionally, if you use protonvpn, mullvad, or any no-log vpn, you would probably be immune to this.

Company does a thing required by law.

Pikachu face.

Yeah, based on a legal request - that's how it should be. Our problems are not police listening in on criminals but unwarranted mass-surveillance.

Email by its nature is not private or secure. You can do all sorts of things to try and make it private or secure but at the end of the day it’s still email. It’s going to sit somewhere plain text.

If you want a secure communication channel use something like signal.

People spend a lot of time and money trying to fight with the nature of email.

I've been using Thunderbird since forever. It's not perfect but I like it better than bloated and laggy Outlook.

I really liked the mail app, the outlook one sucks

What especially galled me was as I was updating my laptop before flashing to Linux the new outlook will not work unless edge installed, I had just uninstalled that pile of garbage.

Ah well, at least pop_os works great 😃

The new thunderbird UI looked neat and modern.

I’ve been paying for mailspring for a few years now, and I love it. It has touch and gesture support, is open source, and is available on Windows, MacOS, and Linux.

Its paid plan includes some nice features like email tracking - which you can’t really get from just a simple client and (needs a server to track who has opened an email and when) - and id lookup, for things like quickly seeing the LinkedIn profile of a sender not in your contacts list.

Definitely my favorite desktop client by a wide margin, and one I would recommend wholeheartedly.

Edit: Just to be clear, it’s available for free as well.

If you’re still using Windows 11, they’re still collecting your data. Sure, no need to give them more, but maybe that’s the push you need to move elsewhere. There are really good options.

I don’t know any of the alternatives that have similar UI to the Windows Mail app

But it is possible to get back the old Windows Mail app by obtaining the dumped package file for the app (either by looking for it online or leeching it from the official Microsoft Store website using store.adguard.ru) and then install it using Powershell

At least that’s what I do with one of my systems running Windows 10 LTSC, since that version of Windows doesn’t came with Windows Mail and MS Store pre-installed

Wino Mail has a pretty good UI similar to the Mail app. You can find it in the Store.

there are many ways to monetize a service without rendering the free version legless

Like Microsofts data collection for targeted advertising?

Proton encrypts and decrypts your data on your machine. The secure key for this lives on your machine and never leaves. Proton do not have a copy of your key because if that key is shared with anyone, human or program, then it is no longer secure. In order to build the feature you’re talking about, that security would have to be broken. Not changed: broken. Made ineffective. Thus defying the entire point of the product.

I recommend further study. This will get you started: eccouncil.org/…/free-cybersecurity-courses-beginn…

It’s in the works, paid users can test. Then it’ll be a free desktop client.

Proton has a business plan, too.

If you aren’t using an insider edition then Notepad is still safe

.

When I look at my Pi Hole dashboard while my girlfriend’s Mac is booted, I’m surprised by how many requests are blocked, given that apple somehow has the reputation of respecting their user’s privacy.

And when she boots into Windows 10 MS’s data stealing gets downright creepy.
I am lucky enough not to have a Windows 11 PC on my network but I think I would see even more denied requests.

There’s surprisingly few standalone email clients for normal people on desktop platforms as far as I know.

Thunderbird did get a UI overhaul semi-recently so it might offer what you’re after now.

I also liked eM Client which has a free version.

This looks like Win 95 to you?

eM Client is the absolute best I’ve ever used.

I’ve been using Thunderbird and loving it. They’re developing a mobile app now as well!

I don’t use proton so forgive me if this is a stupid question…

But do you need an app? Can’t you just use whatever browser you want for their services?

The Linux Experiment recently interviewed the CEO who answered this question.

Basically it’s the same as anything else. Linux requires more effort to code for due to its variety of distributions, and has a significantly smaller userbase.

In short, don’t blame Proton, blame the (lack of) users.

I finally said screw it and am leaving Proton for a proper paid service. I never upgraded Proton to a paid tier because it never matured enough for me to use for real. I never once migrated contacts over to it (just a couple people who understood I was testing it).

Yea, so there’s a connection to my credit card. At least it’s with a professional org that has proper modern mail management (something post-2000), and gives you tools to manage your email.

I really wanted Proton to work out so I could recommend it to friends and family. But it’s a terrible user experience. I missed 50 emails because it keeps moving them to spam even after I set the sender as not spam. Oh, and spam management requires (according to support) logging into the web, not thru the mobile client. 🤦‍♂️

Can you imagine telling a customer this with a straight face and not seeing a problem with it? I’m using your app and can’t manage spam?

Don’t worry, they’re preparing to discontinue all their desktop-native apps in favor of webmail (and webmail running in Electron).

After which I expect they’ll start squeezing their paying customers, since they won’t be able to leave anymore. Or sell the company, get out with “clean hands” and a wad of cash, and let someone else do the squeezing.

I always chuckle at the name PopOS because in Spanish that means poops. I’m sorry.

Hey at least you picked a great distro to settle on!

Just stop using it with outlook then?

You sure you did not use POP3?

Damn right, long live Google Wave!

Should we start running our business on tiktok?

Your alternative?

I feel the same about SMS auth. Considering many services block voip and Google Voice, it’s impossible to use the broad majority of web services without a cellphone.

You mean, other than being the most widespread method of account identification on the internet?

You need to have a method of uniquely identifying (and verifying) accounts and the other widespread method (phone numbers) is extremely privacy invasive because it’s much harde or practically impossible to change phone number for most people.

Thunderbird is great!

Powered by AI!

Or the PWA version if you’re so inclined.

I give the web version credit, it’s pretty swell.

What’s the privacy conscious, and future-proof way to have email, that isn’t as crazy expensive as Proton?

It was so broken when I tested it that if you dragged a folder two levels deep it would disappear. Had to roll back to get that folder out.

I hope you changed your email account passwords after. What many people don’t realise is that when you fill out the “configure your email account” form, the details aren’t kept local to your PC. You are giving Microsoft the login details to your email account. This is a major departure from how Outlook and Windows Mail used to work.

So you’ve uninstalled the app, but how can you ensure they aren’t still polling your emails?

Gmail does the same, at least for me on mobile when I look at my promotions Inbox

I Sincerely hope you logged back in to outlook.com after to reject all permissions and tear out your data/accounts

the new version of thunderbird is amaaaazzzzing

Change to Linux on main PC when?

To be fair, Microsoft is a big company with various divisions. Parts of Microsoft are doing really great work in the FOSS area I would say, but really only if you’re a developer. As a general user… they do kind of suck yet.

FOSS friendly company

I’m not sure what you are smoking but you’re high as balls dude. If there is any company that has as it’s motto “fuck and destroy open source” and as slogan “fuck everything for money”, then it’s Microsoft.

Microsoft paid SCO to make false claims against Linux in an attempt to destroy Linux and extort large companies away from Linux. The destroy part failed, but they got multiple large companies to steer away from Linux. Normal people would go to jail for that, Microsoft execs not so much.

It used to not be the case, but as of the past decade or so, it seems like more and more software is getting lower quality or substantially bug ridden. Not just on windows either. It’s everything now.

Back in the day, each update used to fix bugs, add genuinely useful features, and were eagerly anticipated. Now, I get to do lovely things like RMA a bricked steam deck on stable channel or listen to New Teams’ ringer doubling, once before a call is picked up, and ringing again after the phone is answered. I wish I was joking for either of these.