An ad giant wants to control your next TV’s OS (arstechnica.com)
from Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 09:28
https://lemmy.world/post/22309068

#technology

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Deceptichum@quokk.au on 22 Nov 09:42 next collapse

Googles been a TV OS for a while now.

NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 09:45 next collapse

I want a TV with NO OS.

ChicoSuave@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 13:53 next collapse

Look into Sceptre. 4K with no OS, no ads, doesn’t ask for WiFi - just a TV.

NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 14:27 collapse

I can find only computer monitors there.

[deleted] on 22 Nov 15:14 next collapse

.

ikidd@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 15:17 collapse

The walmart link has some TVs, but apparently not the Amazon one, just monitors.

thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 14:43 collapse

It’s hard but not impossible, as even ‘retail displays’ run an OS in the background to control input switching, image settings etc.

Honestly the best thing to do is buy whatever TV you want (we have a couple of the LG OLEDs in our household), and don’t ever plug them into your network (or WiFi). Otherwise, with updates OS and apps become sluggish, with more ads crammed in.

Instead, use a seperate media player (e.g. Apple TV if you’re already on the iOS ecosystem, Nvidia Shield or similar for Android, HTPC if you’re so inclined etc.) - they’re more powerful, arguably more secure & private, and portable between displays if/when you upgrade.

coolmojo@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 16:26 collapse

Unfortunately EtherNet over HDMI exists so your your TV can still access the Internet if the Apple TV or Nvidia Shield has Internet access. To prevent that you have to make sure use older HDMI cable less then HDMI 1.4.

stooth64@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 17:18 collapse

I didn’t think any devices even adopted Ethernet over HDMI

random_character_a@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 09:58 next collapse

My current TV is clawing my firewall like squirrel with rabies. I’m sure the next one will too.

Petter1@lemm.ee on 22 Nov 11:21 collapse

I just give smartTVs no network at all

0x0@programming.dev on 22 Nov 12:35 collapse

Please enable internet access to setup your new TV, otherwise no TV for you.

teft@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 13:00 next collapse

Then you turn around and return it. Don’t encourage that behavior by just letting it happen.

EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 13:14 collapse

If your retailer has a generous enough policy to let you return an opened TV because simply because you don’t like it. I spent $1,200 on a Sony TV with backlight bleed issues that were so bad that half the screen was tinted blue. I tried to return it or get a replacement but was told by both the retailer and Sony support that half the screen being blue was “normal for LED TVs and within acceptable parameters” and to go fuck myself.

teft@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 13:15 next collapse

That’s what chargebacks are for. You don’t have to rely on shitty retailers return policy.

EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 13:17 collapse

You’re not going to win a chargeback determination in this case either.

You will be, as I was, shit out of luck.

teft@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 13:20 collapse

If your credit card doesn’t let you do a chargeback for defective equipment then you need to get a better card provider.

TVs not working after purchase would qualify as defective in my opinion.

EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 13:28 collapse

Your opinion doesn’t matter. What matters is everyone else’s opinion. Our interpretation of that TV is “Obviously defective”, but in their eyes it turns on and plays media and sound, and if you crank the brightness all the way up then in very bright scenes you don’t notice the blue tint.

My only actual remedy in this case was go to small claims court, which costs money on top of time off from work, and winning would require explaining backlight bleed to a 70 year old judge and that while it’s normal, not to this degree. And even if I won, this would be against Sony so maybe after that they ban me from doing any kind of business with them ever again and I’d lose access to thousands of dollars worth of games I’d pay for and lose the ability to play my $500 game console. This shit is just stacked against you and there’s no real winning except to not buy their product in the first place. But what do you do when any manufacturer on the market can and would do this to you? Never buy a TV again I suppose.

Good_morning@lemmynsfw.com on 22 Nov 17:32 collapse

I mean, maybe don’t mention the PS5 during any of it, at the very least use a separate email than the one tied to your account. I totally get your concerns, I’d be pissed too. I think I’d try returning to the store multiple times (maybe getting lucky with a different person or even a different location)

EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 17:49 collapse

It’s a corporate store with a unified return policy, which unfortunately lists acceptable reasons for return and a TV that works but has bad backlight bleed is not one of them. The lesson learned here is pay closer attention to the warranties and return policies when you buy things. Unfortunately I didn’t anticipate backlight bleed that bad even being a thing that could happen. There is often a small amount when buying LED TVs so I expected there to be some.

Unfortunately this strategy depends on you having access to a retailer with a better policy, many may not.

Petter1@lemm.ee on 22 Nov 13:41 collapse

In my Country, you can Return within 1 month if you are not satisfied.

Captainvaqina@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 14:07 next collapse

Yea but here in the United States we have the Freedom™ to be ripped off with no recourse.

EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 15:22 collapse

Oh no I live in the U.S. we don’t really do consumer protections.

Petter1@lemm.ee on 22 Nov 13:39 collapse

Than I only watch my drm free stuff 🤷🏻

TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 09:59 next collapse

The biggest ad giant in the world already controls my TV’s OS

BroBot9000@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 10:00 next collapse

Don’t ever connect them to the internet. Period.

If it’s required, buy a different tv. It’s not difficult to look that up beforehand.

Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 10:03 next collapse

I suspect in the near future it will be impossible to buy a TV without spyware/adware. The only option will be to not connect it to the internet and run your own Raspberry PI/SBC based solution.

BroBot9000@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 10:08 collapse

Monitors aren’t being pumped full of this stuff and so won’t the premium televisions.

The super budget/sold at a loss TVs will absolutely be gutted for spyware.

Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 10:52 next collapse

Monitors aren’t being pumped full of this stuff and so won’t the premium televisions.

I have a feeling premium TVs won’t escape adware/spyware either. They can get their margin on the hardware and earn some more money on spyware; I don’t see what incentive they have to not do both. I hope I am wrong though.

thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 14:47 collapse

You’re not wrong, there are a number of videos from Louis Rossman (right to repair advocate) on YouTube lambasting LG for doing this very thing on their high-end G-series OLED TVs; including defaulting to opt-in to marketing and providing PIR data after an automatic update.

0x0@programming.dev on 22 Nov 12:37 next collapse

Monitors aren’t being pumped full of this stuff

I hope this is just marketing then…

EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 13:16 next collapse

Premium televisions are already pumped full of this stuff

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 16:25 collapse

Yup. I don’t know if it’s all of them, but Louis Rossmann had a video where he ranted about this BS in his high end TV.

Redredme@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 18:26 collapse

Looks at the top of the line Samsung Odessey 49"/54" ultrawide monitor. Looks at specs. Reread this comment.

Uhuh

M33@lemmy.sdf.org on 23 Nov 06:57 collapse

Checking before buy buying will be possible for computer and privacy « educated » people only, that leaves almost everyone helpless in the real world, in a store facing TVs all playing the demo video. Maybe some will read Amazon reviews or do actual research… hope.

FluffyPotato@lemm.ee on 22 Nov 10:18 next collapse

I have an old 60 inch 1080p TV from the early days of smart tvs. It has a built in app for plex and youtube, a remote that works as a pointer, it’s insanely slow but it has zero ads and I’m never ever getting a newer model.

ramble81@lemm.ee on 22 Nov 13:06 next collapse

Up until that TV dies.

FluffyPotato@lemm.ee on 23 Nov 06:06 collapse

I’ll find one on the used market or do whatever it takes to fix it

M33@lemmy.sdf.org on 23 Nov 06:52 collapse

That’s my plan too

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 16:25 collapse

Yup. My 58" 4k LG TV has a bunch of apps (we only need Netflix and Jellyfin), and the only ads I’ve seen are in their apps, which don’t need to be opened. It’s a little slow and apparently can’t even handle Jellyfin over HTTPS, but it works well.

My SO wants a bigger TV, and I’m dreading looking through the current market to find a decent replacement. I’d really like OLED and for it to be a few inches bigger, but it seems everything has ads and spyware out of the box. Screw that…

FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 10:24 next collapse

For fuck’s sake.

Emi@ani.social on 22 Nov 10:26 next collapse

Seeing this just makes me want a tv that is just a monitor, no crap you just plug in your own thing whatever you want.

Lexam@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 11:40 next collapse

Done! Take any Smart TV, factory reset it. And never let it connect to the Internet again .

curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Nov 13:27 next collapse

Buy a commercial display, thats what I do.

unwillingsomnambulist@midwest.social on 22 Nov 13:39 collapse

Look into commercial monitors like the Samsung BET-H series. I bought a 43” one years ago, plugged an Apple TV into it, and haven’t really thought about the screen ever since.

According to the specs it runs Tizen, but I haven’t had to look at a menu since I got the settings dialed in, i.e. years, so I completely forgot. Don’t even know where the OEM remote is, it works with the HDMI-CEC commands sent by the Apple TV.

eleitl@lemm.ee on 22 Nov 11:17 next collapse

My video projector is dumb, and that’s the way I like it.

dave@feddit.uk on 23 Nov 09:20 collapse

This is the way. 20 years ago, I got rid of an old Sony CRT that literally weighed as much as I did, and have had nothing but projectors since. Lots of complaints from the rest of the family around “it’s not bright enough”, and “it’s too complicated”, but hey ho.

Petter1@lemm.ee on 22 Nov 11:21 next collapse

I don’t want an OS on my next TV…

0x0@programming.dev on 22 Nov 12:38 next collapse

Now all you need is a built-in camera to prove Orwell was right… only off by a few decades, really.

peopleproblems@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 12:51 next collapse

How bout no

francisfordpoopola@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 12:53 next collapse

Pi hole FTW.

JDPoZ@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 15:44 collapse

Not good enough. Any OTA updates your TV can get over the web will eventually be trying to circumvent your IP blacklists to shove in any ad-riddled garbage they can.

Literally just blacklist your TV’s MAC address, and use a dedicated set top box of some kind to avoid this shit. My current choice is my NVIDIA Shield Pro 2019, which I installed a 3rd party WOLF launcher (there’s also F-Launcher) and turned off auto-updates so I could avoid NVIDIA and Google doing the same.

At some point, I will probably need to switch to a NUC or other HTPC with some flavor of Linux on it, as eventually the Shield may succumb to this shit as well.

EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 13:10 next collapse

An ad giant already owns and controls my current TV’s OS

ftbd@feddit.org on 22 Nov 16:00 next collapse

FYI for those using DNS-based adblocking: I discovered that my AndroidTV box asks 8.8.8.8 when my local DNS server blocks a request.

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 16:20 next collapse

Dang, so you’d have to block Google’s DNS at the router level too?

sanguinet@lemmy.ca on 22 Nov 20:32 next collapse

I wouldn’t mind doing it. I run my own DNS so it wouldn’t affect me, but I figure if they’re already trying 8.8.8.8 they may as well try 8.8.4.4 and perhaps more, so it’d require a bunch of firewall rules.

Now, all of that is moot point cause I hate the whole “smart TV” thing, so they’d never be connected to the internet.

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 21:25 collapse

Right. It’s probably easier to give it a whitelist instead of a blocklist.

ftbd@feddit.org on 22 Nov 21:35 collapse

I set up my firewall to block all outgoing traffic to ports 53 and 853 (except for the upstream traffic from my pihole). I suppose DoH could still sneak through though.

addie@feddit.uk on 22 Nov 17:17 next collapse

What a shower of twats. Don’t block the request in that case, just redirect it to your local server that returns a 1x1 transparent png for all requests.

S_H_K@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Nov 22:37 next collapse

I connected an old laptop with linux mint and put the TV always in HDMI mode. Problem solved.

FiskFisk33@startrek.website on 23 Nov 06:11 collapse

Only if you mean the tv has no web access

newscientist.com/…/2449198-smart-tvs-take-snapsho…

Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com on 22 Nov 23:05 next collapse

Block all port 53 traffic from your network outside of your DNS server/pihole itself.
Block all known DoH servers.

If you want to get REALLY fancy you can write a NAT rule that will force any outgoing request on port 53 to route to your dns/pihole.

I do all of this. It’s actually funny to see the requests that were hardcoded to go somewhere. Giant fuck you to those companies.

Goun@lemmy.ml on 23 Nov 13:39 collapse

Do DoH requests go though 443?

Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com on 23 Nov 13:44 collapse

Yes. But there are lists of well known IPs that are serving DoH. So you can just block those. Obviously blocking 443 is not a good idea.

wrekone@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 23 Nov 02:40 next collapse

Depending on your router you can forward all request on port 53 to your DNS server regardless of the IP they try to use.

stupidcasey@lemmy.world on 23 Nov 07:07 collapse

I always have issues with dns blocking so I tried something sneaky I redirected all DNS requests to 1.1.1.1/1.0.0.1 and it worked brilliantly, for about a month when it stopped working all together, I don’t know if a cache was wiped or google saw what I was doing and made a special exception just for me, obviously I want to believe I’m a special snowflake taking the world’s largest internet company head on in an epic battle of wits and skill but I think the cache thing might be more likely for some reason.

ftbd@feddit.org on 23 Nov 09:13 collapse

You mean redirecting on your router? How should google stop you from doing that? And why would you redirect to cloudflare lol

TORFdot0@lemmy.world on 23 Nov 14:06 collapse

It could start using DNS over HTTPS if it had enough failed requests. Those wouldn’t be able to be redirected

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 16:32 next collapse

Anyone know of a reasonably priced OLED/QLED, >60", 4k TV without smart features?

I really don’t want the spyware and adware that come with newer smart TVs, and I’m willing to pay a bit of a premium for it. I’d also be happy with a unicorn smart TV that doesn’t have any of those anti-features.

surph_ninja@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 17:09 collapse

What about just not connecting it to the network? Then put a video device on it like Roku or Apple tv or whatever.

Good_morning@lemmynsfw.com on 22 Nov 17:17 next collapse

Yah, as much as I hear people looking for non-smary TVs for this reason, that’s the correct answer. Mine is connected for convenience, and I’d rather save every mb of space on my xbox, right now there’s occasionally the small ad tucked into the input selection menu, but if it starts showing me full screen ads I’ll deny it internet and install streaming services on Xbox.

surph_ninja@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 17:31 collapse

I hooked mine up to wifi once to download an update to fix a bug. Then immediately removed the network settings.

The performance on most of these TV apps is terrible anyway. And Samsung has been caught listening to mics before. Baffles me that people would leave these connected.

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 17:37 collapse

just not connecting it to the network?

Some TVs require connecting to the network to set it up, and I’m concerned TV manufacturers will get more brazen going forward. If there’s a company that doesn’t do this nonsense, I’d rather reward them for being good instead of working around misfeatures in popular brands.

Roku

Has ads that can be disabled, at least as-of last year. Not sure how long that’ll last…

Apple TV

Apple also seems interested in ads.

Any other option will likely degrade to having ads at some point. I could probably get rid of them w/ a PiHole or something, but that could end up being a game of whack-a-mole.

I’ll probably end up w/ a Raspberry Pi or something running Kodi or similar, which is really annoying because that’s yet another thing I have to self-host just to avoid this stupid obsession with ads.

Wildly_Utilize@infosec.pub on 22 Nov 17:50 next collapse

I hear Sony is a good bet

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 17:52 next collapse

Awesome, I’ll check them out. :)

captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 23:21 collapse

With the way Sony is treating their gaming customers lately I consider it a dead brand.

ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 18:46 next collapse

I know this isn’t purely TV-related, but there used to be a secret menu for Roku where you could disable home screen ads. That stopped working for me several months ago. So I recently bought an Onn box (which is basically Android TV, but had as very cluttered UI) and side-loaded one of the open source launchers onto it. It’s been a much better experience than Roku, not least because there’s are no more home screen ads.

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 19:10 collapse

there used to be a secret menu for Roku where you could disable home screen ads

That’s the first link. If it no longer works, I guess Roku isn’t an option anymore. 😟

ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 19:59 collapse

I should clarify: the secret menu can still be navigated to and the options there set. But ads now appear regardless. I went back into the menu and verified the options hadn’t changed (they hadn’t). It’s like Roku has gotten wind of the exploit and ‘fixed’ their OS to ignore those options.

werefreeatlast@lemmy.world on 23 Nov 03:08 collapse

In the future we might have to hack our TV’s to make them ours…like disconnect the camera and the microphone or feed them bullshit data or inject trick hacks… 🤔 Hmm what is this thing? rm -f…copy paste to see what it does! Oh shit! Half the country looses Disney plus for a few days. And it repeats 5 times every month so they stop fucking with us.

GhiLA@sh.itjust.works on 22 Nov 17:25 next collapse

normal people can’t just… grab a single board PC and… install Linux on it! What are they supposed to do!?

I dunno, suffer, I guess. Pass the keyboard. I’m feeling Friends.

edit: my cousin and his wife came over about four months ago and saw we used a keyboard and the TV was just a computer and he went “why the fuck haven’t we just done that?”. He doesn’t know know Linux, but he has a Steam Deck and got by alright.

Sometimes, they just need the idea, a little push.

AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee on 22 Nov 17:50 next collapse

Smart TVs are why I’m never getting rid of the old Samsung TV I’m currently using as a monitor for my desktop. It’s not quite flat screen like an actual flat screen, but at least it doesn’t have a camera attached to it (besides the USB camera I keep unplugged unless needed), no microphone, and no ads. Plus, I still have access to all the other types of things I need like AVI and coaxial inputs, besides HDMI. It’s gonna be the saddest day ever when the beauty decides to die on me.

qyron@sopuli.xyz on 23 Nov 07:04 next collapse

Solution: get a dumb tv

DampCanary@lemmy.world on 23 Nov 08:22 next collapse

unfortunately,
on some markets they are gone.
“Smart” TVs have squeezed them out.

qyron@sopuli.xyz on 23 Nov 08:27 collapse

If you manage to have access to AliExpress, you can have it shipped.

When that is not an option, a big computer screen and a tv card.

DampCanary@lemmy.world on 23 Nov 08:38 collapse

Aliexprees is great for low buget electronics,
but I’m skeptical about anything larger.
Plus with EU’s hike on tarifs and delivery services quality it’s like playing worst type of gambling.

A TV card(and PC obviously) with screen could be for me,
but there is no way my parents would agree to such setup.

qyron@sopuli.xyz on 23 Nov 08:58 collapse

Amazon ships the exact same fare of electronics. If it serves of any consolation…

If you have a laptop, there are small USB tv tunners available. If not, a smarphone can access a good deal of content. And depending on what country you are, you might have access to your national channels (open signal ones) over the net.

For the rest: Aaaaarrrr, me ladies! May the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster fill our sails and set our course for rich waters!

ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net on 23 Nov 14:12 collapse

Getting increasingly hard.

I finally learned why those 50" tvs are so cheap, like $200. Buy a dumb TV that’s the same size is easily 5x the price.

Then again, nobody needs a TV and I only bought one during the pandemic, then connected it to my pi hole.

MrSoup@lemmy.zip on 23 Nov 09:22 collapse

Ehm, it is already like that. Most of smart TVs use Android which is under Google control, a big (if not the biggest) ad company.