Brave appears to install VPN Services without user consent (www.ghacks.net)
from argo_yamato@lemm.ee to technology@lemmy.world on 18 Oct 2023 23:51
https://lemm.ee/post/11962501

#technology

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fubo@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 00:01 next collapse

As a reminder, Brave was created by the guy who brought you JavaScript and was later fired from Mozilla for donating to hate groups. Brave also profits from multiple forms of fraud including NFTs and affiliate hijacking.

hagelslager@feddit.nl on 19 Oct 2023 00:07 next collapse

If folk want to have a chromium-based browser made by a company, take a look at Vivaldi instead (which will keep the old plugin architecture, so adblockers work). It has a limited built-in blocker and extra features, but for now still runs uBlock.

Ganbat@lemmyonline.com on 19 Oct 2023 00:49 next collapse

Vivaldi is what I use, and it’s absolutely the best Chromium browser I’ve ever tried.

That said, I’d switch to Firefox in a heartbeat if it could duplicate that sidebar. I use that thing all the time, and it’s the only thing keeping me on Chromium.

[deleted] on 19 Oct 2023 02:08 next collapse

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Firipu@startrek.website on 19 Oct 2023 02:14 next collapse

Try it out. It’s a sidebar that allows you to put all kinds of websites and tools in small pop-out windows.

A less visually appealing, but much more powerful version of the opera chat sidebar.

I’ve tried to get something similar in Firefox, but nothing comes even close.

Built-in functions >>> addons any day of the week.

(cfr mouse gestures)

wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 03:30 next collapse

opera chat

…whut? (I haven’t had opera since the buyout)

nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org on 19 Oct 2023 03:53 next collapse

Before the buyout, I think you could use it as an AIM/ICQ client.

Firipu@startrek.website on 19 Oct 2023 05:01 collapse

Yeah, no. I should have put some hyphen I guess.

Opera chat-tabs. Opera has a sidebar for chat clients (eg messenger, WhatsApp, telegram,…) built-in. It works really well and is prettier than the Vivaldi implementation. Still sticking with Vivaldi though

wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 07:28 collapse

Cool! Thanks for explaining =)

BloodSlut@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 11:47 collapse

i fucking love vivaldi’s mouse gestures.

whenever i use firefox i end up constantly opening the inspector view like an absolute moron

Ganbat@lemmyonline.com on 19 Oct 2023 04:04 collapse

It’s a thin, persistent bar on the left side of the page with tools and shortcuts. By default, it’s where you find bookmarks, history, downloads and things like that, but you can also add custom websites to it as well. They pop out either over or alongside the main window (depending on whether the pin button is pressed), and they display the mobile webpage when available, to be more usable in such a small window. It’s how I use Discord and Mastodon.

matt@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 12:49 next collapse

floorp.app

Firefox fork with features like the sidebar, vertical tabs, and more. It’s a vivaldi-like gecko browser, give it a shot.

clearleaf@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 23:59 next collapse

Floorp is built on Firefox and was built in Japan and is a new browser with excellent privacy & flexibility.

There’s something really funny about that sentence. I think it’s because it reminds me of “remember Akira? That’s from Japan.”

turbowafflz@lemmy.world on 21 Oct 2023 00:28 next collapse

I just switched to floorp from firefox, it’s so nice to finally have another choice for a non-chromium browser with a reasonable number of plugins

Ganbat@lemmyonline.com on 21 Oct 2023 03:48 collapse

Oh, man, that’s exactly what I’ve been wanting. Already switched!

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 20:57 next collapse

it’s also absolutely proprietary, so no, thanks.

Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 22:07 collapse

As A Vivaldi user since day one, I gave it up once I couldn’t take anymore of Googles/Chromium bull hockey. I’m just so done supporting a company like that. Firefox switch wasn’t easy, but after the first week I got used to it and I’m never going back to Chromium browser. Anyone can switch if you actually care enough.

chepox@sopuli.xyz on 19 Oct 2023 03:02 next collapse

I have Vivaldi on my android but I do not know how to get adblock working. Is it even possible?

Firefox mobile has Ublock Origin and works great. Even on YouTube.

madis@lemm.ee on 19 Oct 2023 04:28 next collapse

Menu -> Settings -> Tracker and Ad Blocking -> Block Trackers and Ads

chepox@sopuli.xyz on 19 Oct 2023 21:27 collapse

Thanks. I quickly tried it on YouTube and did get an ad. So I guess it doesn’t work on those. Bummer.

Edit. Tried it some more and did not get any more ads. It takes a little to get the video playing but other that 10/10. No ad experience. Awesome.

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 20:58 collapse

it has an adblocker but it doesn’t come even close to uBlock Origin. UBO is so many tiers above any other mobile browser built-in adblocker.

Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Oct 2023 04:27 collapse

(which will keep the old plugin architecture, so adblockers work).

Will they? All I remember was them saying that their built-in adblock (which is very barebones) would still work after Manifest v3, nothing much else.

hagelslager@feddit.nl on 20 Oct 2023 09:43 collapse

Seems you’re right! I’ll cross out that part. Sorry!

IanAtCambio@lemm.ee on 19 Oct 2023 00:19 collapse

This is misleading. The BAT was a reasonable idea not really a scam.

fubo@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 00:21 collapse

It’s not just BAT; Brave also supports NFTs, which are even more unambiguously a scam.

The company is in bed with the cryptocurrency “industry” which cannot exist without constant fraud, ransomware, and other crimes.

Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me on 19 Oct 2023 00:10 next collapse

Software installs services to make its features operate, including optional default off ones. More news at 10.

Either it does it at install time, or when you try to turn on the VPN after subscribing to it, it pops an UAC prompt to finish installing optional components. That’s standard practice, and it’s good for security because it means they can flag the browser itself as not capable of elevating privileges. They’re not going to put a gaping security hole in their software so that idiots don’t write articles about “installing things without your concent”. You already consented to installing Brave, you can’t be surprised Brave is installed.

As long as it deletes them when you uninstall, this is a complete non-issue.

Goronmon@kbin.social on 19 Oct 2023 00:57 next collapse

I guess it depends on how much you trust a company (both now and in the future) to do something they shouldn't with this kind of setup, whether on purpose or though incompetence.

Personally, I don't software silently installing unrelated services to my machine just in case the company decides they want to have it running on my machine in the future.

Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me on 19 Oct 2023 01:19 collapse

It is an advertised feature though. It can and will use those services if you enable them.

Should it also not come with the binaries for the VPN feature at all? That has downsides: maybe you’re on a laptop trying to bypass a network block that also blocks the download of the VPN software but the VPN would work.

So if it’s to come with the binaries, why can’t it install the service too, that defaults to off and manual launch? On Linux that’d be a systemd unit, on Windows it’s probably an API call of some sort but they basically contain the same information: some metadata, an executable and the privileges to launch it as.

I’d never seen a Linux user complain about <1kb systemd unit file being installed that’s disabled by default and only started on demand when the feature is requested as part of a package they install. It just is and doesn’t hurt anyone. Don’t want it, don’t use it.

When I download software, I expect all its built-in features to be installed and usable even if I don’t use them, nor want them. It’s part of the package.


It’s kind of borderline because the VPN really could and should be a separate product entirely, I don’t want to launch a browser just to then on a VPN. But they made it a built-in feature that’s advertised as such, so it shouldn’t surprise anyone.

Especially given its proprietary software. If you’re that privacy and security conscious, why are you using proprietary software and not Firefox or Chromium or whatever the latest flavor of degoogled Chromium fork du jour is. The service is nothing compared to all the other crap they could be running in the browser completely hidden from you. That service is super transparent and upfront, if they wanted to hide it they could easily hide it. If you really don’t want it to run, you can even set it to disabled entirely, and Brave won’t even be able to start it.

If you’re that paranoid, you really should be running Linux or at least avoid as much closed source software as possible.

Chronographs@lemmy.zip on 19 Oct 2023 01:06 next collapse

Yeah I mean there’s a lot wrong with brave but this is like getting mad at software for installing an autoupdate service

Tick_Dracy@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 07:53 collapse

How many cryptos did they pay you to write that? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[deleted] on 19 Oct 2023 00:38 next collapse

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hal_5700X@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 00:48 next collapse

If you need a Chromium browser use Ungoogled-Chromium, Windows version.

ripcord@kbin.social on 19 Oct 2023 00:58 next collapse

Very few people do. Better to just get Firefox.

Aatube@kbin.social on 19 Oct 2023 01:16 collapse

Or some variant of it as Firefox also has its owned bundled stuff; I recommend Waterfox

4am@lemm.ee on 19 Oct 2023 01:22 collapse

Librewolf’s a good one too

redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Oct 2023 09:01 collapse

On android I prefer cromite. Dont know how it compares with ungoogled chromium on windows though. Firefox is the superior choice on desktop

downpunxx@kbin.social on 19 Oct 2023 01:08 next collapse

the brave experience was less than ideal for me, the brave search is unusable, i switched back to firefox, which i had moved to from chrome

also, related, but a side note, word to the wise, never ever ever use a free vpn ever, someones gotta foot the bill for the exit server bandwidth, and either they're keeping logs or they're not keeping logs, but you'll never know, and you won't know when they sell their settup to the next guy. always use a major vpn service who's audited and shown proof they're not keeping logs, they're in the business of secure and private vpn service. free vpns like what brave are offering are not in that business, and server, rack space, bandwidth costs actual money

[deleted] on 19 Oct 2023 22:20 collapse

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AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Oct 2023 02:35 next collapse

Just a reminder, one of the largest investors in Brave is a right-wing billionaire who runs a corporate espionage agency that contracts with the US Department of Defense to spy on people.

Fades@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 05:57 next collapse

Wow, I actually had no idea. I haven’t used Brave in awhile now but they’ve been making some strange decisions lately. This makes the picture a little clearer

mitrosus@discuss.tchncs.de on 19 Oct 2023 06:03 collapse

Source of the info?

Pfosten@feddit.de on 19 Oct 2023 07:28 collapse

Well, it’s about Peter Thiel, who also founded the Palantir surveillance technology company. As a source for his involvement with Brave, Wikipedia cites this TechCrunch article, which mentions funding from Thiel’s “Founders Fund”.

I’d rather criticize Brave for other reasons though, like being led by Brendan Eich or supporting crypto.

AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Oct 2023 12:14 next collapse

That’s the best reason, but somebody already mentioned it and I didn’t want to be redundant.

IdealShrew@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 21:12 collapse

is it cool to hate crypto now? I thought the sort of people who use Lemmy would be all for the idea

Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 22:09 collapse

Crypto is a scammers paradise.

DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca on 19 Oct 2023 02:41 next collapse

Just a reminder, Brave was using people’s likenesses to solicit donations without their consent, and without necessarily give those people the donations.

[deleted] on 20 Oct 2023 03:22 collapse

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DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca on 20 Oct 2023 03:26 collapse

If you want to poke around, look up “Tom Scott and Brave”.

altcoinbuzz.io/…/famous-youtuber-tom-scott-frustr…

Engywuck@lemm.ee on 19 Oct 2023 04:12 next collapse

The usual anti-Brave hate wagon, with FUD and pitchforks. They’re already working on it:

github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/33726

VPN is a paid service, it doesn’t connect to anywhere if one doesn’t pay. This is just a service installed just in case. And complaining about this while using Windows , the OS with unavoidable telemetry, spyware and ads is just laughable.

Mozilla did far worse “mistakes” over the time (Pocket , Cliqz, Mr. Robot, deal with the worst privacy offenders on the Earth such as Google Facebook, Amazon, CEO pay rise while firing devs and losing market share, while begging for donations… and so on) but they somehow always get a free pass, with people swallowing Mozilla’s corpo PR every single time.

the_q@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 04:43 next collapse

Lol look at your downvotes. You don’t even know why we’re all against brave.

Engywuck@lemm.ee on 19 Oct 2023 05:40 collapse

Only stupid people care about downvotes. And who are these “all”? A lot of people use Brave happily every day, while a lot of people deservedly leaves Firefox everyday because they realize the scam Mozilla is:

data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity

SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 19 Oct 2023 08:25 next collapse

Please elaborate on why it’s a scam

the_q@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 11:54 next collapse

Lol…

ZeroCool@feddit.ch on 19 Oct 2023 21:31 next collapse

data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity

What exactly do you think this link proves? Be specific.

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 21:07 collapse

I think you meant Brave is a scam here.

I mean, it’s not like Mozilla runs their own crypto wallet with the browsers keeping a mayor cut for themselves only because they are distributing the browser.

Mozilla does not run a crypto based ad network and inserts it into webpages.

Mozilla has never been caught inserting their own affiliated links into crypto related websites to receive a cut.

So you probably misplaced Mozilla with Brave there.

Sure, Mozilla is not perfect and they deserve criticism when they do things wrong (and they tend to). But Brave is just a chromium skin + a crypto based scam built-in.

dingleberry@discuss.tchncs.de on 19 Oct 2023 04:53 next collapse

Wow…a “FUD” user in the wild.

Engywuck@lemm.ee on 19 Oct 2023 05:41 collapse

Wow, a Mozilla shill in the wild.

Stabbitha@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 05:51 collapse

Says the dude very obviously shilling for Brave. You’ve solidified my decision to uninstall it.

Tick_Dracy@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 07:50 next collapse

Hey sir, I think you’re on the wrong side of the lane. The Brave Cult highway is this way ↗️ !bravebrowser@lemmy.ml

CommunityLinkFixer@lemmings.world on 19 Oct 2023 07:52 collapse

Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !bravebrowser@lemmy.ml

Tick_Dracy@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 07:57 collapse

Good bot!

smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de on 19 Oct 2023 09:07 next collapse

Mozilla have some immunity because they do the hard work and actually develop a browser, while for Brave everything that matters is leeched from Google’s Chromium.

Number1SummerJam@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 15:56 collapse

Mozilla isn’t some paragon of free open source non-profit charity like everyone is claiming, they need to make a profit just like everyone else to keep themselves up there as a competitor to Google. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation

Currently use Firefox and Brave for different applications but I am considering switching to Vivaldi, I definitely want to do more research on all of them though.

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 21:10 collapse

I’m no fan of either Mozilla, Brave or Vivaldi.

Each of them is trying to make a cut with the browser.

I’d advise against Vivaldi because they have telemetry and it’s proprietary.

What I suggest instead are free software, community managed projects that have no monetary interests in distributing the browsers: Librewolf and Ungoogled Chromium. Unlike Brave, Vivaldi or even Mozilla, these devs don’t have incentives to put anti features into their browsers.

Number1SummerJam@lemmy.world on 21 Oct 2023 20:40 collapse

Currently migrating over to Librewolf, I really liked what it has to offer. Thank you for the suggestion!

Fades@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 05:54 next collapse

Damn the negative stories just keep coming in regards to Brave. It’s a shame, I liked using their iOS app but I said fuck it awhile ago already. Firefox is my main b ^rowser^

LukeMedia@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 15:28 collapse

I’m still not sure what to use on my iPad for adblocking. Someone please tell me what to use instead on iPad! Everything else is Firefox + uBlock Origin, of course.

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 21:02 next collapse

Apple makes it quite difficult. Honestly, I don’t think there’s a good option. Maybe try DNS based adblocking, by either setting your DNS to one that blocks ads or by setting up a Pihole, which gives you more control.

LukeMedia@lemmy.world on 21 Oct 2023 00:50 collapse

They do indeed. I’d use my iPad for media much more often if this weren’t the case

paranoia@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Oct 2023 21:15 collapse

I use Wipr with no complaints so far. If you need free, AdGuard is popular and has a free mode that seems to cover the basics.

LukeMedia@lemmy.world on 21 Oct 2023 00:51 collapse

Thanks for the rec

Waluigis_Talking_Buttplug@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 06:52 next collapse

I love it when I talked shit about this browser and get acused of wearing a tin foil hat.

Pat@kbin.run on 19 Oct 2023 11:43 next collapse

Vivaldi is a better brave. You get built in ad blocking and tracking prevention along with not having built in crypto

clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works on 19 Oct 2023 12:19 next collapse

And mouse gestures! Configurable tab stacking! Workspaces! Notes and pinned tabs! Tab tiling! Web apps in the sidebar! I love Vivaldi.

clegko@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 13:02 collapse

Remember when Opera had all of these things a literal decade+ ago? I remember.

hagelslager@feddit.nl on 20 Oct 2023 09:46 next collapse

Vivaldi is lead by an ex-Opera engineer.

clegko@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 23:11 collapse

I love Vivaldi, but there’s just something about it’s UI that bothers me. I can’t quite put my finger on it - it just feels slightly off.

clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works on 20 Oct 2023 12:06 collapse

Yeah, I followed their dev over when they left. Opera seems to be a mess these days. I used Opera for over a decade.

dangblingus@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 13:11 collapse

There’s no built in crypto anything except for the odd ad on the homepage to buy crypto. Which, sure, is kinda lame, but they don’t mine crypto in the background or anything like that.

Number1SummerJam@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 15:52 next collapse

It has an easy to find option to turn off everything related to Crypto

gohixo9650@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Oct 2023 13:48 collapse

it has a built in wallet. Nobody said it was mining anything.

tabular@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 12:51 next collapse

Librewolf

Pxtl@lemmy.ca on 19 Oct 2023 13:01 next collapse

Uh I’ll stick to Firefox thanks.

seedd@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 22:01 collapse

Even better, librewolf.

rurutheguru@lemmings.world on 21 Oct 2023 00:38 collapse

What on earth is that? And in what sense is it better than Firefox?

obinice@lemmy.world on 21 Oct 2023 00:47 collapse

letmegooglethat.com/?q=librewolf

rurutheguru@lemmings.world on 22 Oct 2023 07:50 collapse

Thank you. You had the opportunity to explain why you use it and why you recommended it, and yet you had me google it myself like I could have done from the start. Now I know it’s a browser (like your comment implied) based on Firefox with additional privacy features. But I still don’t know why you recommended it. Oh well.

lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org on 19 Oct 2023 13:10 next collapse

Checkmate, Brave shills.

ours@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 13:13 next collapse

Like built-in crypto shenanigans weren’t enough.

IdealShrew@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 21:10 collapse

tbf the BAT thing is cool

elscallr@lemmy.world on 21 Oct 2023 00:08 collapse

I used to be a Brave user. I loved it. It worked well, it blocked ads without me asking, whatever. Then Google said they’re gonna bake ad blocker blocking into the API and, knowing Brave was Chromium based, I went back to Mozilla after like 100 years.

Two observations:

  1. I was kinda deluded

  2. Mozilla got their shit together, Firefox is as awesome again, by comparison, as it was when they unseated Internet Explorer.

notannpc@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2023 20:49 next collapse

The only chrome variant that doesn’t seem sketchy to install is chromium. The built from open source chromium. And that’s just because some sites barely function unless you’re using chrome’s rendering.

For everything else, Firefox.

AstralPath@lemmy.ca on 20 Oct 2023 02:38 next collapse

What about Thorium? Thoughts?

notannpc@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 06:11 collapse

I haven’t heard of it before today! Definitely going to check it out.

pastermil@sh.itjust.works on 20 Oct 2023 03:27 collapse

Would qtwebengine count, or is it a bit of a stretch?

notannpc@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 06:20 collapse

I don’t know that I’d call that a chromium browser but I’ve only looked at its docs for 10 minutes. Hard to say where chromium integration begins and ends there without digging into the code. Seems like, at most, it’s using the web rendering engine from the chromium project. But it also seems to suggest it has its own modules for executing/rendering js/css/html.

Probably not included in the “should be avoided” category.

Now I’m curious what it’s used for.

pastermil@sh.itjust.works on 20 Oct 2023 06:41 collapse

I’m currently using it in a browser called Falkon. It’s not as big as Firefox or Chrome, but it is endorsed by KDE. Also, Apple’s Safari is using something similar.

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 20:55 collapse

Not at all.

Safari is using WebKit, which they based on KDE’s old KHTML engine, which is now discontinued.

Falkon uses qtwebengine which is Chromium’s web engine + integration with QT user interface.

A Linux browser that uses WebKit (like Safari) is GNOME Web.

ZeroCool@feddit.ch on 19 Oct 2023 21:25 next collapse

Update: Brave plans to address the issue in a future release. The VPN service will only be installed after a user purchases the VPN.

“Oh gee whiz did we do that?! Woopsie doodle! We’ll fix it someday!”

Furthermore, no data is sent to Brave from the VPN services. End

This might be true but the bigger problem is I have exactly zero reason to believe anything Brave says about the things they’re installing on people’s machines without consent. If you’re still using Brave at this point you’re a fool.

rckclmbr@lemm.ee on 20 Oct 2023 03:07 collapse

They’ll either evil or incompetent. Neither of which I want on my computer

IdealShrew@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 21:09 collapse

when did people start hating on Brave? last I heard it was the best browser for privacy.

uranibaba@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 21:33 next collapse

I never used Brave, but I believe it was sometime after they started their ad-currency-whatever-thingy (I could of course be wrong).

elscallr@lemmy.world on 21 Oct 2023 00:05 collapse

They’re Chromium based, which erodes any possible claim they could make to privacy.

Use Firefox instead. You can lock it down further than you can Brave and they don’t rely on Google.

shortly2139@lemmy.world on 21 Oct 2023 15:13 collapse

Doesn’t Mozilla rely on Google for funding? Genuine question, as I though i read this else where on Lemmy

elscallr@lemmy.world on 22 Oct 2023 06:29 collapse

They might get some money from them but certainly not entirely. There’s an entire Mozilla Foundation.

Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 22:00 next collapse

Stop using Brave, jfc. Please use Firefox, it’s not the best, but it’s better than this trash my goodness how many more scandals do people need to get rid of this crap?

Zacryon@feddit.de on 20 Oct 2023 23:35 next collapse

Firefox is the best.

phx@lemmy.world on 20 Oct 2023 23:45 collapse

Yeah the first time I tried Brave it the a bunch of ads for their services - and asking about providing info to their partners - at me constantly. I don’t understand why people use that PoS

sebinspace@lemmy.world on 22 Oct 2023 03:04 collapse

The amount of people I see shilling for Brave like it’s God’s gift to privacy is frankly kind of disturbing given how many issues they’ve had with privacy