from IndustryStandard@lemmy.world to fediverse@lemmy.ml on 16 May 20:41
https://lemmy.world/post/29771783
Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.
Feddit.org now bans
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The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”
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Comparing Israel to the Nazis
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Calls to end Zionism
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Calling for the dissolution of Israel
And much more. The full original post can be found here, or
Click here for full text of original post:
Hi. In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post. While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic. And with that, let’s go: In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”. Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun. There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules. If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community: * Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular. * Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like. * Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism. * The slogan “from the river…” * Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany. * … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis Comments will not be removed for the following: * Denouncing genocide. * Denouncing Israeli war crimes. * Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement. * Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”. If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @EuroMod@feddit.org account (which all mods have access to). :::spoiler To help you understand why, I’ll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL). * A news report: > Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […] * A legal treatise: > In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. > […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office. * Press release from the previous government: > In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. > This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB). * Another news report > In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …) * Overview Germany in 2024 by Amnesty International * Overview Germany in 2024 by Human Rights Watch federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe) ___
threaded - newest
Cool, I’ll add them to my ban list.
Better yet I am trying to get them to add me to their ban list
Didn’t blaja already defed them?
Nah, that was feddit.uk
Shot you’re right. I forgot they were two separate instances tbh.
How do I ban an entire instance
Assuming you’re using the default Lemmy UI, there’s a block settings menu in your account settings page. It’s worth exploring, there’s some good options to play around with.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/eea51fd3-c3eb-4adb-9806-c0f08aa18632.png">
germans supporting a genocide, why am i not surprised
also defending facism at every turn
akshually they’re just complying to law 🤓
The write-up they link is also insightful. Notably, they “explicitly reject these accusations” of being Zionists and insist it’s a legal precaution required by their countries.
I’ve bought servers for hosting some small communities and I sometimes thought maybe I was paranoid for retaining anonymity and carefully picking the country and company to allow muh freedoms as far as speech goes, but it’s interesting seeing .world and feddit pull out the “just following legislation” card (which is understandable, given that staff imprisonment is obviously bad for their community, but also irresponsible and complicit to simply accept the situation instead of resolving it, and because this is an internet community there are safe ways to resolve it).
Then they should be ranting about how terrible the law is, not defending it.
How much ranting do you think they will be able to do from inside a jail cell?
It’s not illegal to rant about the injustice of these laws… Jfc
It is however illegal for them to allow such material to remain on their servers once they’re made aware of it.
No it isn’t, the server isn’t hosted in Germany
This is false. The German police will contact the Austrian one, who will share the contact details of the persons legally responsible for publication, and if those happen to be residents of Germany, the Austrian laws are irrelevant to what the German police does.
Is there any example of that happening?
Yes that has happend before many times. The EU and nearby states like the UK, Norway and Switzerland have a tight integration of the police forces via Europol and regularly exchange such information.
Source? Because I know you love lying.
No because you can apparently not read and then accuse others of lying.
When you have no argument, just endlessly scream “NO! NO! YOU CAN’T READ!”
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/6500ab2a-4d02-4a50-a734-c4d37696c30c.png">
Lying fascist.
Still no source either.
I didn’t say they needed to refuse, but they could make a statement regarding their feelings on this. And they should find a new location for their server…
Their server isn’t located within Germany, from what I’m reading.
From what I understand, the situation they are worried about is a german authority gaining access to their personal devices or somehow de-anonymizing their accounts and associating them with their actual identity while living in/traveling through germany, and seeing the type of content they are posting/allowing to be posted on a community they moderate.
The actual risk of exposure to them is incredibly small.
Ok, so all German mods/admins should be removed of their roles until they move to a country with reasonable freedom of speech laws. Instead they’re enforcing the terrible laws of their home country on the rest of the people in the community, which is bullshit.
The members have a choice to leave if they don’t like the rules.
And you can leave your country if you don’t like the laws. But that’s not reality
Er, are you saying it’s just as hard to register on another lemmy instance as it is to emigrate?
I’m saying that people want to improve their community, not just run from them every time they do something ya don’t like.
Feddit.org was not started as an law-skirting activist space with specific op-sec requirements.
My impression when talking with the admins is that they are quite sympethatic to such efforts, but simply ask that to be done somewhere else where it is safer for everyone involved.
They’re going to stand behind the German law on this? smdh
Germans and being complicit because they are “just following laws/orders”. Name a better duo.
Y’all grabbed your pitchforks before you even got to that part, didn’t you?
You can criticize Zionism as an ideology, but you can’t call for its end.
You can refer to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” but you can’t call for the dissolution of the state of Israel as it currently exists.
You see the problem, surely?
Ummm… Take it up with Germany?
Germany doesn’t have jurisdiction on servers hosted in Austria. This “German law” defense doesn’t make the remotest amount of sense.
Germany is doing plenty of extra-judicial repression of pro-Palestine activism. Jurisdiction doesn’t matter.
These laws are AFAIK in Austria similar to those in Germany, and Austrian police will share the contact details of those responsible for publication who happen to be people living in Germany. The server location alone is not the only criteria.
You can’t call for the end of israel, a state started by ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and stealing their land. You don’t realize why thats a problem?
Take it up with Germany, the country in which they live.
What, you’re scared of getting harrassed by your government for wrongthink on your hobby project? You sir are the actual fascist! We’ll defederate! Can’t let any of those instance users access ours. 🤡
Lol, they’re trying to pretend that the cops will kick down their doors if someone says “free Palestine” on a server they’re mods of.
You’re not keeping up with the news from Germany then I take it.
I know that they’re repressing opposition to Israel, but I have not heard of them arresting someone just for being a moderator on a website that doesn’t follow German law.
The moderators less likely, but the server admins quite likely, as those are legally responsible for the publication. Where the server is physically located is actually of lesser relevance in that regard.
German police gonna arrest Austrian based admins?
The admins responsible for the Lemmy instance AFAIK live in Germany.
Is their any precedent for social media admins being arrested for comments on the site the administrate?
There are precedences of public forum admins having their homes raided by police and all communication devices confiscated, yes.
Source?
Literally in the original post linked above.
Or here for example: netzpolitik.org/…/linkhaftung-scharfe-kritik-an-r…
No it isn’t.
I added another link. And there are other such examples behind the spoiler tag in the orginal post.
So you were lying when you previously said it was there.
Edit: and it still isn’t there, lol.
No they are there behind the spoiler tag 🙄
Nope, you’re still just lying.
That link does not remotely support your claim that “There are precedences of public forum admins having their homes raided by police and all communication devices confiscated”.
Once again, you are a lier, and a fascist
What? It literally says that the private homes of the operators of a public website were raided by police and their communication devices confiscated. LITERALLY! Are you completely unable to read and understand basic texts?
Nowhere does it say anything equivalent to “public forum admins having their homes raided by police and all communication devices confiscated”
Again, stop lying, fascist
This was a public website where multiple people had access to post stories and links 🙄 And they got raided because they linked to another (by then officially forbidden) leftist website that also was a kind of forum to share news stories very similar to Lemmy.
Sorry, but I am tired of you trying to twist words in my mouth, the evidence I provided is clear and you just don’t want to admit that this is a real risk in Germany.
So like I said. Not a source for your claim.
Please provide a source for “public forum admins having their homes raided by police and all communication devices confiscated”.
Those are your exact words, so drop the “stop putting words in my mouth” crying, you lying fascist.
“Forum” is not that clearly defined, Lemmy can also be called a forum as do many other websites. You are just trying to split hairs because you can’t admit that you spend the last couple of hours making a total ass out of yourself 🤷
Lol. So you lied when you said “public forum admins having their homes raided by police and all communication devices confiscated”.
Speaking of “making a total ass of yourself”, being a self proclaimed “punk” and spending the last day going all out arguing for the suppression of anti genocide speech. How does the rest of .slrpnk feel about having a fascist for an admin?
Then use a VPN. I’ve known people living in actual dictature (Russia) being less cowardy
Yeah, but those people actually disagree with their government, unlike poVoq and the other Zionist mods
What the fuck is a VPN going to do if your name is known to the web host? If you have given away personal identifying information in the purchase or maintenance of the website?
“Oh no herr officer, look at mein IP address, I am le French where such rules don’t apply. Please ignore all the other identifying information you may have gathered over the time that the website was hosted.”
Here’s how Firefox translates what I see to be the relevant parts from German to English:
“The Ministry of the Interior used a legal trick by declaring the platform not as a medium, but as an association. All investigations against allegedly involved persons, including because of the formation of a criminal association, were suspended or went into the sand. At the time, there was criticism from different sides against linksunten.indymedia.org.”
“The accused is to have published an article on the homepage of the aforementioned radio station, which contains a link of an archive of the forbidden association “left-unten.indymedia”. The association “linksunten.indymedia” was banned and dissolved with the disposition of the Federal Minister of the Interior of 14.08.2017, since the purpose and activities of the association contravened the criminal laws and was directed against constitutional order.”
I mean translations get a little funky but I’m reading this as saying that this office and two private homes were raided because someone posted a link to an archive of an indymedia website which was declared to be a criminal organization.
That “someone” being the people who were raided. This is not a case of an admin being held responsible for the content of a user, which was the entire point at issue
I live in Germany, and it’s a totally realistic scenario, especially in Bavaria. They seize computers to intimidate digital activists all the time for way less serious topics.
Have they ever raided someone just for being the admin on a social media site?
social media site specifically I don’t know, but raids for managing infrastructure for completely legal but politically inconvenient activities, yes, plenty. I remember going to a talk from a guy managing the servers of Extinction Rebellion and he got all his stuff seized, never got accused of anything, had to wait months to get his stuff back and never got back a few things.
Source?
And that’s very different to just being an admin on a social media site that doesn’t ruthlessly enforce German law.
So here’s an article about a raid on an environmentalist group in Germany called Last Generation: earth.org/last-generation-activists/
There’s a link to the German language statement from the police which is quite readable after translation, and of course the article itself describes the general activities that they were engaged in and accused of.
Of the activities that they were accused of, it does seem in line with prior environmental activist groups like Extinction Rebellion, Greenpeace, and Earth First!
As for what laws get enforced by a website, that is going to depend on jurisdiction. For example, the USA has section 230 of the DMCA, which holds that website operators are not responsible for user content with the exception of content accused of violating copyright within certain parameters. Doesn’t mean they won’t raid your servers, just means you won’t be held legally responsible if they think you were sufficiently responsive to issues when raised.
At this time I don’t know the specifics of what Germans have to think about to avoid state interference, but it does look like it is more severe than what the US has to do with.
So not a source for the claim.
So if that’s not the case, that does mean Germany is not fascist? Or are they fascist and is their policy justified?
Time to defederate Feddit.org.
To bad. They weren’t that bad, IME. But denying criticism of a state actively carrying out a globally recognized genocide… that’s a strict rule I’ve adopted.
If midwest.social won’t defederate, I’ll have to block the whole instance.
The post literally says that you can critizise that 🤦
Please understand that there can be some nuance on the topic and that people in Germany are understandably extra careful on the topic.
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A knee jerk reaction to genocide denial?
Shit EuropeanSS say
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just in: it’s reactionary to fully support a group being targeted in a genocide
Nah they’re just wimps
So hand over the instance moderation to people in a different jurisdiction, or shut it down entirely. Don’t comply with this bullshit.
How about you start your own instance instead of complaining? 🙄
Having an opinion isn’t “complaining”. I’m not even on that instance, I just happen to care about solidarity with victims of genocide.
Claiming that the genocide, apartheid, and colonialism perpetrated by Israel is in any way complex or nuanced is such a disgustingly smug way of revealing you haven’t spent even a moment thinking the situation through, or reading up on the history. Gross.
germans “just following orders” again?
Germans should listen to Namibians a bit more. You don’t get to play favourites with your genocide victims.
Wow, real mask off moment, though they were using the “German law” pretext for a while now.
For a server hosted in Austria 🤡
You know what? I’m gonna pro Palestine even harder
That’s enough for me to block my first instance! Fucking Nazis.
How do you do that?
did the same and it’s the first time i’ve used lemmy’s blocklist; i hope there aren’t more in the future
This part floored me. As if it wasnt Israel that was currently denying equal rights to Palestinians and not the other way around… this is just the zionist version of ‘all lives matter’ bullshit.
But have you thought but the guy doing the genocide asshole?!?!
How dare we ignore the trauma of those committing violent oppression?!
I am curious about the reactions in the thread linked in the OP, but I can’t access it. I don’t know if the thread is deleted either since I can’t access even the server.
Are they temporarily down?
EDIT:
False alarm. I was able to access it after some struggle. I don’t know why I can’t access it in my desktop but I was able to access it via mobile. At any rate, it’s a problem on my end.
Reading the linked post, I’m glad to note that it seems to me that the consensus is largely against the change. Even the few comments from those in the instance is pretty much against it.
Genuine freak shit. Maybe wait until the government bothers you, don’t preempt them
Says the person not at risk of early moring police raids of their home including months long confiscation of all their communication devices and costly legal proceedings to get them back.
I’m a communist trans woman with guns who helps house people for free in the USA. I’ve had ICE and police show up to my doorstep before. For some reason, I doubt a bunch of cishet white nerd guys in Germany are about to have as many problems as I do for hosting anti israel content on a small social site.
Great, more power to you, but you do realize that this is still quite a different situation? What you are doing is not illegal (for now at least) and you have some control over the risks you personally take.
Hosting a space for others but still being legally responsible for what they do in that space has different requirements. You would probably also ask people you host to not set up a meth lab in your place.
What I’m doing is illegal in my jurisdiction, ICE showed up for a reason. The law can eat my ass no one should be homeless
Fine, I don’t know your situation, but there is still the difference that you chose to take that personal risk intentionally, while the feddit.org admins did not.
Unforced error really, there’s a lot of secure hosting providers that take anonymous payments. Could easily say you transferred domain control to someone else to avoid liability when the law passed. They’re doing this because they have no convictions and are lazy at best, at worst they support Israel.
Not really.
You can’t become anonymous and retain site ownership. The site would’ve needed to be shut down and a new, somehow completely unrelated site would have to be started.
Besides, even if that were done you bet your ass a random German lawyer would immediately sue the new site for violating Impressumspflicht. That’s one quick way to get the police investigating your site. Your OPSEC better be close to “hosting an illegal streaming site” level.
Even German forums about piracy would rather have an impress and remove illegal content than remain anonymous and evade police - see tarnkappe.info.
I’d argue every small social site should run on the principal that they will be prosecuted like an illegal streaming site. You can divest yourself of liability and doxing with basic opsec.
An example: host on 1984.hosting and pay with mined or donated Monero. Only access the site through a computer specifically for that purpose, and only with Tor / Tor Browser and a Linux distro such as Qubes, Tails, or less suspiciously, Fedora Atomic. Memorize credentials if possible, if not encrypt them on drive with a strong password via a keepassxc databases. If you are hosting the site properly, you can transfer the site podman/docker container and url with databases and info intact with no effort. Make sure the computer for managing site management stuff wipes itself on every shutdown sans credential info, has secureboot, and an encrypted drive. As an admin account, only access the site through base Mullvad Browser with a VPN (ideally Mullvad) or Tor Browser on a computer of your choosing.
You can easily say the site is no longer yours and your payment information will reflect this. This has been done before. Germany can ban the site but it’ll be easily discoverable through other fediverse servers, Tor, and VPNs. They would have to ban anything that uses acitivitypub, and again, even in that scenario you can use a VPN or Tor or self host a vps with the instructions above to access it normally anyways.
Simultaneously, you lose all rights to the site and risk a hostile takeover with no possible recourse.
It’s also significantly more effort to retain this level of anonymity from a state actor. I don’t even think there’s a single Lemmy instance which follows all those steps.
The thing is, as of right now German censorship doesn’t warrant this. Yes, it sucks you cannot freely speak about Israel. But frankly, since it only requires you to adjust your wording minimally without changing the message (“Israel should be destroyed” => “I support a one state solution where everyone in current-day Israel and Palestine can live freely, similar to how South Africa abolished apartheid.”) it’s really not worth it.
Should Germany turn fascist and ban all opposition, it is too late for feddit.org and their moderators anyways. If Germany doesn’t, feddit will be fine like this and reduce the strictness of these rules as German sentiment towards Israel slowly worsens over the coming years.
Hostile takeover? Not if you don’t share credentials. The passwords and so on should be random and encrypted.
And yes, if Germany is going to execute you for potentially hosting a small social site that occasionally could criticize Israel you’ve got bigger problems and should choose to fight or flee.
Sorry, I meant either confiscation of the domain or the server provider deciding to take everything down. The latter can be mitigated with backups but it will nevertheless result in long downtimes.
There’s generally no legal recourse or protection if any instance involved in hosting the site decides to break contracts. This sort of uncertainty sucks and has to be taken into consideration.
Confiscation of the domain isn’t a big deal. As I’ve already said, there are many anonymous hosting providers that have been tested on the Israel issue and came out the other side. 1984 is one, ADL served them an injunction in court in Iceland and 1984 was successful in fighting it and also avoiding divulging any info about activists.
If you wanted to it’s also possible to proxy server traffic so that the main server is never divulged which makes it very easy to swap domain names and providers. I consider this overkill for this use case though, would be necessary on a streaming site or something, though that should be hosted in Russia to avoid issues anyways, Russia essentially allows for the piracy of non Russian data.
Incredible work, comrade. 🫡
You are an amazing person, but I find it funny how in the US even the communists have guns.
Communists have always been pro-gun, you can’t have a revolution without them. Things get more nuanced within Socialism, once the revolution has broadly succeeded, but an armed working class in Capitalism is harder to oppress.
~ Average german defense for their complicity in the 1940s.
You would have turned in Anne Frank.
Right, people arguing to not expose others to the risk of police raids are “asckually Nazis”. You realize how absurd that is? Anne Frank was found during a police raid…
Are you fr? Are the feddit admins (appropriate as fuck name) hosting Palestinian refugees in their server locations, now?
Eur*s and their guilt tripping for shit they caused in the first place I stg
“Look it’s the law, disobeying the law is bad, I must obey the law and report my local
Jewspro-Palestine thought crime.”The irony of all the armchair warriors here is too thick 🤦 Go get yourself squatted and possibly arrested, that will for sure help the Palestinians that are facing a genocide /s
Better than supporting laws that censor support for people. Some solarpunk you are.
A Solarpunk with better opsec, yes. Maybe you should learn a bit about that yourself.
Apparently not.
I am not one of the admins effected by this, but I know better than to expose others to such risks over stupid arguments on a public internet forum.
But apparently that is too much to expect here 🙄
The OPSEC of “censor discussion”? That’s not the OPSEC or solarpunk I’m familar with.
You need to look up the definition of censorship, because you are apparently ignorant or brainwashed by some freeze peach people on the topic.
Asking people not to post stuff on a public forum that could endanger themselves and the operators of the forum is good opsec practise, as is removing such posts that are made regardless of that.
“I think Israel is commiting genocide in Palestine.”
Is this personal info that must be scrubbed?
No, that is perfectly in line with what is explicitly allowed on feddit.org.
Yeah, it would only be against the rules to say that genocide should be stopped
That is also explicitly allowed. Are you even reading anything before posting senseless accusations?
Nope, they’ve been explicit that any calls for violence against Israel are forbidden.
You really love this line, you’re posting some variant of it in every comment you make.
You evidently can’t read. It is much more nuanced than that.
When you have no argument, just endlessly scream “NO! NO! YOU CAN’T READ!”
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/6500ab2a-4d02-4a50-a734-c4d37696c30c.png">
Lying fascist.
No, the person you are arguing with is correct.
Please click the link at the top and read the full text of the feddit post which it takes you to. It is okay to dislike feddit’s policy, and it is perhaps okay to believe that they are lying and that the words they wrote down explaining what it is are not true.
But this person from another instance whom you are arguing with is accurately describing the content of the text on the feddit post.
No, they aren’t. I’ve read the full text, I’ve also read the comments from the admin underneath it where they add additional rules.
There is no form of call for violence against Israel that isn’t against their rules. Feel free to present one if you believe otherwise
I dare you to post it and not get banned.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
That is not the same at all.
I have a hard time believing you care about opsec if you think rotating across accounts is a bannable offense.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/b3ad5eaa-1475-4e9e-920a-42d196a024d0.webp">
That wasn’t me, but in specific cases where multiple accounts are used for ban evasion or similar stuff that can be justified from a moderation perspective.
And if you do such a bad job that it is easy to guess your sockpuppet accounts then that is really a failure in opsec on your side 😅
Wouldn’t be opsec at all if I kept more than one account active at a time or expressed the same views and opinions. You’d probably not have a risk of german prosecution if you and your moderators made use of a similar practice - which is why it’s funny that you gave yourself that attribute
Good opsec includes not endangering other people that might have less good opsec. I am personally not at risk because I don’t live in Germany.
Lmao wow that’s so punk
If we limited our speech to what was legally permissible we wouldn’t need opsec to begin with, genius.
“The safest way to use dissenting speech is to not” lol
I’m a devops engineer and host quite a few things. Running a point to point VPN is fucking simple for anyone capable of running Lemmy.
Your argument is transparently stupid to anyone with even an ounce of technical capabilities.
Ok great, than explain it to us, because apparently you have no idea about the actual situation Mr. “DevOps Engineer”… (a joke of a job title for actual security professionals). /s
You’re as competent a security professional as your beloved Rhodesian military was at fighting.
I also literally did tell you how in the comment above. Setup a point to point VPN and set the remote endpoint address in DNS for the URL. Make sure the remote endpoint is not in German jurisdiction.
Someone that was actually competent (not you) would know how to do that.
What’s interesting is that I got blatantly being called a nazi by those particular mods. I reported to admins and nothing happened.
So obviously there’s a double filter here about “not tolerating accusations of nazism”.
I just left, blocked !europe@feddit.org and became very wary of feddit.org administration. So this doesn’t take me as much as a surprise as I have already seen issues with both that community and an admin team that’s clearly not objective when talking about that community admins.
There is a double filter, but it’s on the part of German law, not feddit mods.
In Germany, it is legal to say “Hamas is just as evil as the Nazis and has the same goals and aims”. It is illegal to say the same thing but with “Israel” or “Zionism” instead of “Hamas”.
Zionism means colonialism not just in practice, but from its very inception:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/b2d31583-348d-4304-91ba-4df8e560b349.jpeg">
Yes, and you are free to critizise Zionism for that on Feddit.org. The legal problem is not that, but that the German authorities don’t play word games and tend to equate Zionism/Israel/Jews as a shortcut and leave it to courts to decide later if that was justified or not.
They clearly state in one of the rules that I just linked, that calling for an end to zionism is a bannable offense.
The german state is full of witch-hunters and its people have learned nothing.
Yes and as I explained already there is a very specific legal reason for that, but this doesn’t mean you can’t critizise Zionism or call it a terrible settler-colonialist project.
As for learning from past mistakes… I think you of all people should not throw the first stone there 😅
A misguided or intentionally malicious reason, for what the effect of that law is. Codifying into law the conflation of Judaism/ethnic Jewish identity with zionism is itself antisemitic. Calling for the end of Zionism isn’t the same as calling for the end of Jews or Judaism. What is the use of being allowed to criticize Zionism the ideology when you’re not also allowed to advocate for its end?
“Zionism is a settler-colonial ideology.” <- Ok “Zionism is a settler-colonial ideology, and Israel as a Zionist project should be dissolved in favor of a single-state that provides equal rights for Palestinians” <- Not ok, somehow?
The law as written only allows abstract and dissociated critique of Zionism, but forbids any criticism that comes too close to threatening Israel’s existence as a ethno-nationalist state. That’s a huge problem.
I didn’t make those laws, and I agree that the German government should make more of a distinction between antisemitism and anti-zionism. But it doesn’t and honestly in your above example you could just say:
“Zionism is a settler-colonial ideology, and Israel should become a state that provides equal rights for Palestinians”
An no one would object 🤷
This singular and persistent focus on the destruction of the (unfortunatly) already existing state of Israel, really makes it likely that many people rather use that as a dogwistle for antisemitism.
Except the moderation rule feddit has implemented does not allow for this statement, unless you specifically say that jews deserve equal rights in a single-state solution - which is similar to those who respond to ‘black lives matter’ by saying ‘but all lives matter’. Saying ‘Palestinians deserve equal rights’ wouldn’t be necessary if equal rights were already afforded them, and the point of making that statement is to draw attention to the fact that they currently aren’t
Nobody who is advocating for Palestinian liberation uses the word “destroy” or ‘destruction’ when referring to the dissolution of Israel - I only ever see those words used by people trying to make this inference between anti-zionism and antisemitism. The only people who take statements of liberation as a threat against Jews are people who are collaborating or benefiting from the oppression Israel conducts in their name.
Sorry, but you are misinterpreting that rule. What I said is perfectly compatible with the rule. The extension that this also applies to Jews is solely to preempt the common “equal rights and the Jews are free to leave” dogwistle.
And you are highly mistaken that there are no people advocating for the destruction of Israel, in fact it is quite common.
Then what is even the point of this rule? If historical Palestine becomes a single secular state with equal rights for all, and Israel ceases to exist as a Jewish state, then I’d be free to say ‘fuck yea let’s do that’?
You are free to advocate for reforming the existing state into a multi-ethnic state with freedom of religion for all.
A state is nothing more than the sum of its parts and a lable. If you insist that the existing state needs to be destroyed first than that is against German law, and honestly I see no reason for that (other than that all states should be destroyed and not be replaced with other states ✊).
States rarely get destroyed, but sometimes they get absorbed and/or change their system of governance 🤷 South Africa still exists, as does Rhodesia (modern day Zimbabwe) to name two examples that often come up in relation to Israel.
The existing governments both stopped existing.
Conflating Rhodesia with Zimbabwe in particular is just fucking disgusting and you should be ashamed for doing it.
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That does indeed seem to be the case.
I’ve found you provably lying elsewhere in this post, so yeah.
Plus your response is stupid on the fucking face of it.
Because South Africa is still on the fucking map as South Africa does not mean there is continuity of government between Apartheid South Africa and the Government formed by the ANC.
If Hamas magically conquered Israel, and created a new constitution giving equal rights to all citizens and still called the country Israel, would it be the same country? No, it wouldn’t. That is how stupid your map argument is.
Given that you’re making the same argument for Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, where the name isn’t even the same… I can’t see any reason for doing so other the trying to white wash the racist horror that was Rhodesia. I mean fuck. The only people defending Rhodesia are the worst of the worst racist scum of humanity.
Guess that makes sense for someone defending the attempt to silence the discussion of Israels genocide.
You are just wrong. Try to educate yourself. The rebels in Rhodesia signed an official peace agreement with the old apartheit regime, and there was a formal transition of government. Something similar happened in South Africa with the ANC and there some of the previous rulers retained a political party and their successors are now part of a coalition government with the ANC.
I am not in any way endorsing those horrible apartheit regimes, but you are spouting so much factually incorrect non-sense that it is really pointless to discuss any further. I hope for you will never actually talk to someone from southern Africa about this because it would be incredibly embarrising to show so much ignorance.
Note that calling for Zimbabwe/South Africa style change to Israel is also against the rule, as they made it clear in the comments that any calls for reform that include violence against Israel are forbidden.
Also no, Rhodesia does not still exist, that’s an absurd thing to say.
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It explicitly is. Stop lying.
The revolutions in Zimbabwe were both performed by organizations that their opponents labeled as terrorists, because crackers label all violent opposition to them terrorism. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist. You have just laid out exactly a general ban to discuss any non-peaceful resistance for Palestine, because that is terrorism, and you have indisputably confirmed that calling for South Africa or Zimbabwe style resistance is 100% against the rules.
And trying to claim that Zimbabwe is actually a continuation of the white supremacist British colony that was Rhodesia is the most racist fucking thing I’ve heard in a long time, and not surprising coming from a pro-fascist like yourself.
You need to learn to read what is actually written, and not just imagine some lala land interpretation that has nothing to do with reality.
And Zimbabwe is legally the continuation of the Rhodesian state, I didn’t claim anything else and please don’t insult others as racist just because you don’t understand what they are saying.
Right back at you, given you’re the one not reading whats actually written and imagining some lala land interpretation that has nothing to do with reality. But go on, keep lying. Show everyone how dishonest you fascist dogs are.
So calling for a violent overthrown of the Israeli government by indigenous Palestinians, recreating it as Palestinian state named Palestine that fully rebukes the colonialist settler state it replaces, that would be within the rules then? Because that’s what happened in Zimbabwe.
Everyone understands what you’re saying, racist, you’re not as sneaky as you think.
You seriously need to read up on the history of Zimbabwe because that is not what happened.
Oh fuck off. That’s exactly what happened, and you know it. At this point you’re just lying through your teeth.
You live in some lala land that has no resemblence to reality.
When you have no argument, just endlessly scream “NO! NO! YOU CAN’T READ!”
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Lying fascist.
The irony is so thick. Go back to your troll cave 🙄
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre
The only troll here is the one that seems to have a hard on for Rhodesia.
Go fuck a Confederate uniform you racist shit bird.
The only person here in LA LA land is the racist filth trying to equate Rhodesia with Zimbabwe.
You’re a fucking disgusting racist. You’re as pathetically delusional to your own superiority as the Rhodesian elites were.
The racist shit bag white supremecists that made up the Rhodesian government lost a civil war because they thought their skin color made them better fighters.
They were wrong.
Describing losing a civil war as continuity of government, especially for the pathetically inadequate white supremecists that made up Rhodesia’s ruling class, would only be done by another disgusting racist shit bag.
Get the fuck off of here you fucking racist.
Tagging you with ‘Rhodesia lover’
You are competely dellusional. I simply pointed out that according to international law Zimbabwe is the legal succesor state to Rhodesia and that formally there was a transition of government.
I am absolutely on your side that Rhodesia was a racist shit apartheit state, but facts are facts…
You are absolutely not “just pointing out” that
Israel is by its very construction an entho-nationalist state. I don’t simply advocate for freedom of religion, I advocate for the abolishing of all Jewish supremacist structures that makes up its government.
In my opinion it would no longer be recognizable as modern Israel, but they could keep the name if they’d like.
It’s so funny how you types are constantly hiding behind the law and saying, “I didn’t make the law, I don’t agree with it, but they have to do this to avoid legal liability, hands are tied” and then five seconds later you say stuff like, “criticism of Israel is a dogwhistle for antisemitism.”
You’re a coward, refusing to admit your real positions because you know you can’t defend them.
Please don’t put words in my mouth. My real position is crystal clear and I am happy to stand by them.
I just quoted what you said. Your real position is crystal clear, you’re a Zionist who thinks criticism of Israel should warrant a ban and also be illegal, because you view anti-zionism as a “dogwhistle” for anti-semitism. You are not, however, “happy to stand by it,” because you’re hiding behind all these excuses about “complying with the law.” The problem is you slipped up and gave the game away with your “dogwhistle” line.
Your opinion is to limit speech that calls out ethnic cleansing, using the law as a defense for the opinion.
Sounds like they very much do play word games then.
Oh I see. Which is why the admins/mods of Feddit.org are also publicly coming out criticizing the German government for this crackdown on nuanced speech, right? Right?
Who got the oldest artifacts in Palestine? Doesn’t seem colonizing if you have one of the earliest histories somewhere, right? That’s why Russia has a right to reclaim Ukraine /s
Serious mental gymnastics lol
Who has the oldest artifacts in the Americas? Or Australia?
Oh I fully support America and Australia controls should be handed back to the respective natives if in either situation they would have conflict about territory
Do Greeks get Constantinople, Marseille and Syracuse back?
And yet every self-declared pro-Zionist I’ve talked to says Zionism is just the right of the state of Israel to exist, and so being anti-Zionist is being for the destruction of the state, and being for the destruction of the state is being for the death or dispossession of every person in the state.
I think the German state is probably more inclined to interpret discussion of Zionism the way the pro-Zionists I’ve spoken to have describe the term.
I think the historical description in the text that you link is accurate, but if you’re trying to argue that Germans should be able to critique Zionism however they want because of that, it’s like literally getting into an argument about the literal meaning of literally with people who use literally to mean figuratively, but instead of a random teenager or twee linguistic descriptivist, you are arguing with the state.
Fucking Germany
When you’re so anti-Nazi that you loop around and become pro Reverse-Nazi.
What lack of theory does to a mfer.
Western Germany never de-Nazified, the Nazis teamed up with the Zionists even when the Nazis were in power. They left the Nazis as they were effective anti-Communists, and the West collectively felt that was a worthwhile trade. Germany pays lip service to combatting fighting the Nazis, but keeps the underlying fascism the West in general has.
Death to Germany
The country or the inhabitants?
Death to Germany
Germany is a country. Germans are its inhabitants.
Yea, so which
Death to Germany
So where do the Germans go?
They can be resettled in Libya with the Gazans.
Where do the Israelis go?
resettled in rhineland-palatinate. if g*rmans are so horny for a jewish ethnostate they can do it in their own country. it even sounds similar the average pissraeli wouldnt know the difference.
(regrettably im part of this cursed “nation”)
lviv and zakarpattia oblasts and lublin and south carpathian voivodships are great picks too. in germany saxony would be my first choice, or perhaps mecklenburg.
Well that's fair since poles and Ukrainians bare as much responsibility for the shoah as Germans, if not not more tbh
Germans didn't even break any laws follwong orders!
Back to New Jersey and Poland once they pass the vibe check
Where they came from ;)
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Brooklyn.
Why would they have to “go” anywhere?
What would you do with them if you don’t relocate?
Who said anything about relocating?
So they stay?
Why wouldn’t they?
They literally can’t comprehend radical action beyond genocide.
It really gives away their intentions towards the Palestinians.
Borders change, governments fall, but people stay. When people say “death to <country>” they usually don’t mean its inhabitants in general.
Nothing? Who said anything about doing anything to them?
By the way, while I’ve got you here, did you know that a mod of c/Germany (as well as most of feddit judging by the upvote ratios) thinks you’re a rabid antisemite who wants to kill all Jews, and who thinks people should go to Gaza to join Hamas, because they misread some of your comments defending their policy? I was wondering if you’d do me a favor and explain to them that you’re on their side, I doubt that you’d want that sort of libel going around.
Where they are? What is it with you equating the end of a country and mass murder? Nobody died when east germany stopped existing.
Totale Rückverdummung (“total restupidification”) and balkanization of Germany
Germans don’t even have the same language. Just balkanize them. Free frankia. Independant rurh valley. The Berlin land is back.
They dont “go” anywhere. The people in that physical location form a new, better government thats not bought out by foreign interests.
any other obvious stuff I can give you the minute details on? Do you need a diagram of how to use the toilet? Lend me some of your crayons and I’ll diagram it out for you. Thats why we are all here, to give you painfully obvious answers to boneheaded questions.
Ex-nazis choosing to support neo-nazis. Maybe they lost the ex, is Germany OK?
Why are only Germans ex-nazi and Italians not ex-fascist? Y’all seem to enjoy your pizza
It’s almost as if this thread isn’t about Italy, Italians, or Italian law 🤔 super weird of me to focus on the topic presented, I know
Yeah you can call it what aboutism but you lie if it aint so
out of all my years on the internet this is such a dumb take lmao
Germany is supplying 30% of the weapons used in the Gaza genocide.
Italy also supplied, so where do you draw the line between not-fascist/fascist?
A negligeable amount. But I have no objections to calling the Meloni regime Fascists.
Bella Ciao.
No but you have to be a hypocrite or else I can’t be comfortable supporting nazis
I didn’t realise thinking Italy is fascist is mutually exclusive with enjoying pizza. I guess that means I’m not allowed to eat sauerkraut anymore?
just rename it to be freedom-kraut and you’re fine.
I always check if my pizza is fascist before eating
Is it any shock when actual members of the Nazi party and SS were kept around to help rebuild West Germany?
We should have just dealt with the problem instantly. Hindsight is 20/20 but fascists deserve no breaks.
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ive got temp banned from there for mentioning europe engages in colonialism.
havent participated a lot in there since.
Caught a perma ban there for calling german oligarchs being heavy on Nazi nepo babies
That server has censorship that's more clown than lemmy.world.
German regime front on Lemmy... Lol
People should vote with their feet.
These clowns should not host pan EU communities, let them circle jerk Zionism in an echo chamber 🤡
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<img alt="fed" src="https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/9fa979a5-e794-47bf-b544-5e1b04397e40.png">
Hamas embodies the armed struggle against the genocidal zionist state, and you should support it. This framing that Hamas is purely comprised of fundamentalists is stupid and pure hasbarah, gtfo.
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Hamas is a symptom of an oppressive nazi genocidal regime
Hamas is the reaction to a century of genocidal settler colonialism. Read The Wretched of the Earth.
I mean, you can, if you’re a piece of shit.
If Zionists don’t want terror maybe they should stop stealing shit and torturing children.
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German Guilt Pride is a hell of a drug. Hiding behind ‘laws’ to justify this is also very on brand.
youtu.be/Vy2ju_qPtuM
Thank you for this term.
Germany has a very binary view on class supremacism. It’s not supremacism is good vs bad. It’s a pendulum of who is above criticism. Russophobic nazi supremacism still kosher though.
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Yep if you have Russian blood in you you’re guilty of all crimes of its government, even if you’re against Putin.
It’s so cool and not at all xenophobic.
I want you to take notice and how I said “Russia” not “Russians”. The state aren’t the individual people. But good job with following the hive mind. So proud of you.
The hivemind of “I don’t think everyone in Russia is inherently guilty of all crimes by Putin?”
Alright let’s just arrest everyone in Russia. They’re all guilty.
You are making shit up lol
Also, many Russians support what Russia is doing in Ukraine the same way majority of Israeli Jews support the genocide...
🤡
I’m sure a non-zero amount support it, but it’s like thinking that everyone in America is guilty of the invasion of Iraq.
If there is a Israel citizen who is against the Genocide, I don’t want them considered guilty. I think they should be doing as much as they can against it, and being neutral to it is complicity. But if they’re against the genocide, they aren’t guilty.
I’m also unsure of the rates of support for the War on Ukraine in Russia, but I doubt it’s 100%. Even if it’s 99%, that 1% can’t be considered guilty as charged for.
I don’t consider think that being a citizen of a nation instantly makes you guilty. But I also acknowledge that they can benefit from how their nation acts on the world stage.
My nation benefited from the Iraq invasion, but I was 6 years old when we did it. I didn’t even know what war really was then.
Thank you one sane, non-kneejerk response. I appreciate you.
And for the late hivemind, I got a comment history full of not being a prick like the dude that responded to me.
I try to be sane and kind to people unless they prove they don’t deserve it.
I appreciate that I was deemed worthy.
And coming from not family, it means so much more!
Bro, again. You’re acting like the person insulting me, assumed I was. Please grab some nuance. The individual citizens are not as a whole responsible for state actions. Despite it the majority of the populace is in favor, you cannot blame them as a whole.
But why do that when we can do collective punishment, which is done by Russia, Israel, North Korea, and all the famous Good Nations?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment
For the same reasons America as a whole is being collectively punished cause of dumb ass trump bullshit!
I’ll give you two guesses where I’m from (despite having a very clear comment history). I am not blaming the rest of the world for their totally appropriate reaction.
No it isn’t. What the fuck are you talking about?
Source or stfu
???
Provide an independent “source(really don’t know an alternative word)” or don’t try to insert a false argument (aka “shut the the fuck up”)
You want me to provide a source for a claim you made?
???
You quoted something I said, and said it was wrong. I want you to source a “source” to prove me wrong.
The fact that you came with some bullshit kinda proves my point.
You’re asking me to provide a source that your completely unsourced comment is false?
Well you’re an idiot, unless you can provide a source otherwise
You just say the same shit over and over and hope!
I’m not going to apologize for calling you out.
Edit to add:<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.today/pictrs/image/8a6a26f9-5cff-43e8-863a-28f50077c151.png">
Provide an independent source for that claim or shut the fuck up.
Could’ve sworn that is exactly what I did…
You could have sworn that, yes. You’d be wrong, but you could still do it.
“I know you are, but what am I‽”
That can’t feel good referencing. You have to have some pride, right?
Maybe not…
Dronie continues to be incoherent
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Dronies continue to be incoherent and homophobic.
They still continue to blow the fuck out your dumb ass soldiers.
???
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???
🤣
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So what? Many germans, americans support what israel is doing.
Trust a dronie to start whining about Russia and “tankies” in a thread about the genocide of Gaza.
Trust a “dronie” to protect their homeland!
Edit to add: your boos mean nothing. You can’t support Russia and Palestine. You’re obviously paid by someone, and/or misguided.
Edit to add: I’m not deleting shit but have a group coming at me. 😉
Edit #2: every negative number I get from you pricks is a positive in my book! Keep bringing it on you lonely pieces of shit!
“Protecting your homeland” by whining about Russia and “tankies” in a thread about the genocide of Gaza.
You’re the one protecting an eastern equivalent to Israel.
Edit: love that I got under your skin asshole. Have fun with the cognitive dissonance you experience daily.
Edit 2: it feels validating every time you ass holes down doot me! Please keep it coming!
???
least incoherent dronie.
So you’re a fan of the incursion into Ukraine? Good to know where you stand.
???
You’re a bad person and you should feel bad.
Edit: good to know home boy has multiple accounts.
???
?
???
I love that you’re banned for your comments, let me carry that feeling forward by user blocking you. bu-bye now.
fuck the banderites
fuck the pissraelis
fuck fascists of whatever country
Indeed, russia is israel’s ally. The russian state is ultranationalist because the US decided so. I don’t want Germany to borrow 1000 billions euroz to subsidize their weapon industry while they send ukrainians to die. Especially after what they did to greece during the debt crisis.
I’ve noticed that pro-Israel Germans are usually not that much against Russia.
Not from what I’ve seen at all. The people who insist on calling Palestinians (and any Arab people who oppose Zionism) “terrorists” are often the same people frothing at the mouth about how we have to smash the Russian “orcs.” Granted, this isn’t limited only to Germans, but I’ve definitely seen it specifically from them as well.
Worse is better. You need to have all sorts of delusions existent in the society, for the immunity to be preserved.
Honestly I’ve had different experience, too much Russia-sympathy from Germans. But maybe that just came out of fashion.
Oof, cringe.
They could have made a symmetrical ban.
I agree with this, in that I think it avoids the issue of appearing to side with one or the other — I think it’s more neutral.
Suppressing any discussion of genocide is the goal though so they still win under this fact pattern
Remember, Israel just wants to kill of Palestine if peace while western regime ehores praise them for their hard work.
It is really annoying when the shitposters won't stfu about the genocide, mate!
sounds like grounds for defederation. protecting fascism is fascism.
I find it more disgusting than .ml and even hexbear, Chinese Human rights violations lean towards cultural genocide, Israel is killing, starving, dislocating and destroying their culture, ethnicity, community and land, it is as bad as it can get, any defence of Israel is disgusting for me, and criticism of Palestine on that front is very ill timed in that manner, you can’t worry about ‘terrorism’ when the alternative is extermination
Wanna take bets .world won’t defederate Feddit because muh freeze peach?
That peter griffin chart where freeze peach is for the whites
Freeze peach is when you advocate for murder of brown people, otherwise it’s white genocide to not advocate for murder.
yes, it took a while, but the western world order is all but over. There is no justice, honor, decency, or dignity here. Its just pariah states with hollow shells of what used to be democracy. US, Germany, Britain, France-- all failed states playing pretend.
betting 100 dollars (not going to you of course) that feddit will remain federated for .world, sh.itjust.works and my home instance, discuss.online
Damn, I could use that 100 buckazoids 😔
I posted several threads asking for that and got REAMED.
The devs are tankies, the largest instances indirectly support fascism (and the tankies), and the biggest European instance is explicitly choosing to support neonazis.
Lemmy is dead.
CuLtUrAl GeNoCiDe
Go to xiaohongshu right now and look at all the uyghurs sharing their music, food, language, stories, spreading their culture freely on a predominantly chinese app!
Whole ass street festivals in the main streets going on in xinjiang of uyghurs celebrating community
easiest fake news to dispel but god forbid (redd/lemm)itors step out of their bubble
has boy boy made a video on Xinjiang I can watch yet?
no idea who youre talking about
They’re a youtube channel run by a pair of leftist Australian rascals. They even have a video where they try to enter a CIA base in Australia.
Wtf is this, this is like capitulatiing to nazis back in the day, shame on them
What capitulation lmao. Can’t capitulate to yourself.
Unsurprising, still disappointing.
well, fuck feddit.org then. Any place thats too busy fellating genocide deserves to be abandoned and blocked. If they think they matter, they are wrong.
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thank you
Such a pain you can’t block an entite instance (at least not that I’ve found on Sync) and have to block the individual communities one by one. I blocked the ones with over 500 subscribers and i suppose the others will get blocked as they show up in my Everything feed.
There’s no way i want to be a part of German genocide whitewashing.
you should be able to do that from the web interface, and it will apply to any apps because your server does the filtering.
fyi, some are already blocking lemmy.ml too. I’m not yet sure if I want to go that far, but I’m getting tired of their china apologism. and this community is also on ml, soo…
China apologism 😂 fucking hell I swear most of y’all would slot right in during jim crow or the yellow peril. If white society says you’re an animal it’s up to PoC to prove we’re not (and if we do it’s apologia)
Sounds like you need to use a different app then. Cuz I’m pretty sure you can block instances on most other ones. I use connect and I blocked a number of instances.
Oh shit, the (White) Power Rankings heating up as feddit takes up an unexpected lead against stormfront.world
Better than what the headline seems though.
The description reads almost like malicious compliance.
Still. There are people advocating for similar measures against statements not as normal as the listed.
I hope these people can see how their wishes being fulfilled might lead to similar regrettable results. It’s better not to walk the preceding steps.
One set of basics a decent human being should always remember - “I am not wise, I am not righteous, and I don’t know what is right and what is wrong, I can only try not to multiply evil and to avoid lying to myself and others, and when I make a decision, I know it’ll harm people”.
Banning calls for dissolution of a genocidal Apartheid is not “malicious compliance”.
They are even banning calls to end Zionism which is comparable to banning calls to end Nazism.
Of course this comparison could not be made on Feddit.org because they ban comparisons of Zionism to Nazis.
The comments section is a circle jerk full of chuds going “it’s about time somevody stood up for poor Israel, only here and world isn’t Hamas”
I’d call it a psyop but Eur*peans have proven to be this ghoulish across their entire history so
I wish this was a psyop but germans have some weird mental gymnastics that result in them cornering themselves into these weird positions
Another one is their relationship with Russia.... 🤡
Germans are quickly rearming, BTW.
And if we look at the numbers, their planned military budget is going to be the size of Russia’s. The efficiency of its use, despite all the jokes about German military bureaucracy, is going to be better too.
So I’d say it’s a huge question who’s being cornered, them or everybody around. Considering the size of Germany’s economy, its dependent economies and allied states. Considering that France, Poland, obviously Ukraine are interested in participating, so there’s bigger total scale of the system achievable.
Even for the old-fashioned kind of militarism they have sufficient population.
And about Putin - one of that regime’s worst unseen qualities is that not only it’s sadistic and barbaric and generally evil, it’s also incompetent. Well, competent in killing people, preserving power and all kinds of sadism, incompetent in strategy. In 5 years when Germany rearms well enough, they might, to optimize expenses, do something huge for old times’ sake after solving the immediate problem, and for this kind of aggression Putin’s Russia will not be ready, not even on the level of 1941.
But also Putin&co have that common for Soviet nomenclature fetish for the German empire. And they are psychopaths. They might be bringing this about because they want this to happen. They will all be in European countries, after all, living just fine, and nobody will put them in jail or take away their stolen riches.
Liberals get their politics from marvel movies
You wouldn’t believe me.
Nah, just half, the other is from Harry Potter
True
It’ll take a lot more than 5 to train and equip an effective force.
It’s not from ground zero.
And it can be effective. It won’t be experienced and will have to live through a lot of massacres and shame, similarly to what Russia did in 2022 or many other forces which hadn’t been properly tested for long. But it will be effective most likely.
But yes, 5 years to blitzing Russia again is something born by my short memory while typing.
So basically just knockoff reddit then?
It says it in the name. Reddit but for and by the feds.
That and .world every time someone suggests that genocide is bad.
both are regime fronts on fedi.
It amazing to see how organic opinion is against them and without centralized social media they can't suppress this sentiment.
Makes you wonder how often public opinions get subverted by these regime whore shills.
I doubt Lemmy has any major effect on public option at large. Reddit never did when they supported Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders, at the height of its user count/activity.
But I don’t doubt that Lemmy enables echo chambers and filter bubbles that enable people to brush aside any criticism of their favorite politician or nation-state as The Good Guys.
Lemmy is the most ML oriented community I’ve been in… Well, it literally has been created by ML
Oh for sure, I don’t doubt that.
But I don’t think Lemmy has any impact beyond maybe one person somewhere changing their opinion on a company.
I understood the comment above to be comparing how public opinion is allowed to shape itself in the fediverse, vs being censored and molded to only fit particular permitted messages in mainstream social media. We can express ourselves without worrying that we’ll get locked out of the entire fediverse for stating an opinion that mods or admins don’t like. Which makes it fair to wonder how much suppression is going on elsewhere, that we don’t see and never hear reports on, because censorship.
I’m not sure where the idea of Lemmy having an effect on public opinion at large came from. It feels like a non-sequitur, but maybe I’m just too tired and I missed something.
I don’t think you get banned for upvoting Luigi here yet
Yet.
.
So they’re joining the Nazis. They can fuck off and die.
weren’t the na*is litterally against that group of people?
No, Christians were against the Jews. The nazis just took advantage of that hate. If you think that the nazis somehow had legitimate complaints against Jews or that those complaints were required to be in anyway accurate, then you have completely misunderstood the history of the last 100 years.
Oh, I see it now! I was looking at it the wrong anglw
no they supported israel since they promised to help with “the jewish question” by resettling them.
The nazis hate jews and israel took advantage of that to get more bodies to settle their frontier. Notably they even helped the nazis circumvent a boycott going on at the time to achieve this.
ah hell yeah found the book
archive.org/…/zionist-relations-with-nazi-germany
You know, the bad part of nazism is the genociding. Not really the specific of their racial hierarchy. If Bolsanero or whatever his name is decide that the state must take care of the True Brazilian and mass murder everybody else, he’d be a nazi
Sometimes joining the bad side is the only way not to die. I wish you strength to do the right thing (and a family in a far away safe place) when you’re in such situation.
I promise you, the feddit mods are not going to die if they don’t ban criticism of Israel. Seriously, have some perspective.
I was reacting to an extreme comment, as you can see above.
It was extreme, but I don’t think it changes the fact that the feddit mods aren’t really facing serious consequences for not doing this.
I used a hyperbole to fight a hyperbole.
A post about white people doing white people things and banning anyone not in full support of genocide, and even the criticism has to be half about China this and China that.
Y’all are exactly the type of idiot who sets up the conditions for these ghouls to do another genocide to then go on your merry way to act like the monsters are they before you spread blood libel against somebody else.
Fuck y’all. Read the fucking room and examine yourself for once.
Sorry? I guess?
So they’re basically declaring themselves a fascist instance. I mean calling for end of Zionism is calling for an end of a fascist ideal, therefore that instance is declaring itself a fascist organization. Simple. Yeah no one should be Federated with this place.
.
Read the comments and see who’s catching bans. It’s one thing to be made to comply by force, it’s another to be celebrating that you’re now gonna be censoring anti Zionists
I can’t see who is catching a ban for what comment, because the comments have been censored. Q.E.D.
…Much like I have been for pointing out how the law functions. So, that’s cool, I guess.
FWIW, a number of states int he US have passed anti-BDS laws; it should be blatantly illegal under 1A to prevent institutions from boycotting Israel, and yet, so far, those laws haven’t been seriously challenged.
It’s wild how lies and propaganda spread in real time.
Oh man. Come on Lemmy.
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
Each of you personally has your own views on the Israel / Palestine genocide, and that’s absolutely fine.
However, very few of you risk personal criminal prosecution in support of Palestine. The people involved in hosting a lemmy instance are volunteers, who probably didn’t sign up for that kind of risk.
Also, the very nature of federation means that feddit can restrict this content on their servers confident in the knowledge that other servers can host this content in a jurisdiction that doesn’t have the same risks.
What’s next? Put yourself in the shoes of the soldiers who’re “just following orders” by firing upon unarmed people ?
Also, the genocide is immoral, inhumane, and needs to stop. I don’t know any other personal view that can be “absolutely fine”
Well, I guess you could put yourself in the shoes of soldiers if that floats your boat but it’s obviously not analogous to lemmy admins.
As I said, foregoing the personal risk doesn’t harm Palestinians in any way. You’re free to bemoan genocide on pretty much any other instance.
Feddit.Org has no business hosting pan EU subs. German law is designed to prevent proepr discussion on the topic and bootlickers love it like that
slippery slope fallacy
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e87d3bd4-1856-41ce-9217-6c9b29941e46.jpeg">
Are you saying that because you genuinely believe your statement isn’t an instance of the slippery slope fallacy, or because you want to insult me?
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8e79681c-2232-47c3-8f8f-a0860a1f8880.jpeg">
If I was one of the admins who lived in Germany, I would just step down; not capitulating to genocidal fascists is more important than getting to run my own little digital fiefdom.
Man sucks to be them. Oh well, better preemptively censor all words because its illegal! Don’t stand for what’s right!
Why are you on an anarchist instance if you are for states limiting speech?
So uh, letting people like lemmy admins do what they want with their own instance is a fairly foundational concept of anarchism.
Lol.
Complying and capitulating in advance with authoritarian laws to aid in covering up discussions of genocide isn’t, however.
So maybe the admins of feddit are not anarchists?
Probably not, you are on the anarchist instance, supporting obeying authoritarian laws. They aren’t.
I’m not supporting obeyance to authoritarian laws. I’m supporting other people doing whatever they like with their own resources - a fundamental principle of anarchy.
Anarcho-capitalists aren’t anarchists
And people have the right to talk about it and apparently most find it shitty
People do have the right to talk about it just like I have the right to call out dump opinions.
Additionally what “most” lemmy users think isn’t a good indicator of sanity.
My country is literally arbitrarily detaining and deporting/imprisoning people for advocating for a free Palestine. I still go to protests.
Free Palestine, from the river to the sea!
Sure, but you realise that it’s unreasonable to expect others to take those risks though right?
I think it’s far more unreasonable to go along with a genocidal regime in the name of “following laws/orders”. Where do you draw the line on that front? Is joining the IDF and activily participating in genocide fine because it’s required by law and you can’t expect others to sacrifice anything of themselves in the name of opposing genocide?
Quite obviously, you draw the line somewhere between shooting innocent children and risking imprisonment for your self-hosting hobby.
I don’t understand how the nuance can be lost here? There is no slippery slope between managing a docker container on a server and murdering people.
As I have repeated ad nauseum, there is absolutely no benefit to Palestine for reddit admins to take this risk. The nature of federation means that these admins can forego this risk and allow someone else to host that content.
One of the fundamental concepts of activism is to strategically pick your battles. This just isn’t one worth picking.
I did not leave reddit to come to a fucked down version of political censorship. fuck you and begone. I’m blocking their instance
THATS how we vote.
How do I do this from an app like Boost?
Don’t know if it’ll be much help but on my app (thunder) you go to the instance, press the little (i) and then block community. It will probably be something similar on most apps.
<img alt="" src="https://aussie.zone/pictrs/image/d86cf8be-bafc-4bc3-9532-3eebd1686630.png">
How do i do this from a browser? Edit- Hilarious this got under someones skin enough to downvote. Bootlicking fascist. Censor me harder daddy. From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
Tbh, I can understand it. There have been police raids kicking in doors of families with small children at 5 in the morning for having a Facebook post saying “from the … to the …” (I am also in Germany…). The police went through all of the families belongings and took all web-connected electronics.
The situation is really rough here in Germany.
Lets not validate the intimidation tactics of the g*rman police. From the river to the sea.
They’re validating the policy of the instance on the basis of the police tactics potentially being used against them, not the tactics themselves
That's some fine nuance in there
thereby showing the police “your tactics are effective”
Well, they are, aren’t they.
if people give in as easily as the feddit.org mods then yeah
Yeah, you have to chose your battle. You can have your life and the future of your children get ruined only once.
Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Juden einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Jude.
Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
martin niemöller
Ich sage nicht mach alles mit. Ich gehe regelmäßige auf Palästinademos und bin bei Mera25. Aber ich bin nicht so blöd mir das zukünftig unmöglich zu machen, wegen eines Sprüche, den ich sinngemäß ersetzen kann, ohne Probleme zu bekommen.
Do you have a source about that incident? Reminds me of a dude arrested in russia for holding a blank piece of paper.
Let me guess, nobody batted an eyelid when Netanyahu used the phrase to assert Jewish supremacist sovereignty “West of the Jordan”. Like you can say from the river to the sea as long as your extremist statement has the opposite of the proscribed polarity.
“From the river to the sea” but its the Likud.
It’s Time to Confront Israel’s Version of “From the River to the Sea”
I don’t blame the mods as they have little say in the matter but it’s sad to see never the less.
I do. The feddit.org mods choose to collaborate instead of doing the right thing and either shutting it down, transferring the users to another instance, or finding mods who are not on german soil. They choose to run a censorship machine. They should not have if they have any integrity.
Yeah, I get what you’re saying. Is transferring users a real possibility?
Man, seeing Germany side with genocide once again was fucking not on my bingo card.
I don’t imagine things will get better under the new right-wing government either.
How is that siding with genocide?
Missed opportunity to also drop a Phoenix Wright gif
They ban supporting or advocating actually stopping the genocide
Users can engage in regulated quantities of vague and pointless criticism of the ongoing genocide, as a treat.
Are you claiming that the German government is running that instance?
The instance behaves according to current German law.
It doesn’t have to though.
“While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany.”
The admins live in Germany, so they have to comply with their local laws.
Local law doesn’t require them to enforce German law on non-Germans on a non-German server
Deutschland hat kein Existenzrecht. Nicht einmal 25 Jahre nach der Wiedervereinigung sind die Nazis bereits die beliebteste Partei. Totale Rückverdummung und Balkanisierung Deutschlands JETZT! Das Konzept Deutschland ist an sich antisemitisch. Freies Frankenland. Unabhängiges Berlin.
Wenn die d*utschen so geil auf ein israelischen ethnostaat sind sollten sie gefälligst ihr eigenes Land abtreten. Stalins einziger Fehler war in Berlin innezuhalten.
Why does the country that gassed people think they have any moral authority to tell others right from wrong
They think it makes them uniquely qualified to judge whats a genocide and what isnt^(dont^ ^laugh)^
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/2538ecc2-b9fe-4986-ac23-94a129aabfea.webp">
Unironically, I think one of the biggest reasons Germany supports Israel so strongly is guilt over what Nazi Germany did to the Jews. It’s the same with their hesitation to provide weapon systems to Ukraine, as their president noted, they can’t forget how many Russians died at the hands of Nazi Germany during WWII.
I do not think that is the case, rather the reason for g*rmany (the state) supporting the west palestinian occupation regime is that its a continuation of nazi g*rmany but now under US/NATO supervision and will do their bidding accordingly. You will see many rank and file members of the NSDAP continuing their work at the same or higher positions long after the nuremberg showtrials.
If you’re talking about the average g*rman, then yeah the biggest reason is the indoctrination that the holocaust was uniquely evil (it wasnt^[readsettlers.org]) and that we owe the Jews for it. Which on the surface is true, we do, but the west palestinian occupation regime was a benefactor of the nazi regime^[Zionist Relations With Nazi Germany] and lined the pockets of its politicians with “reparation” money while the holocaust survivors it was nominally intended for died in poverty under their jurisdiction.
Support for Russia and Israel as way for Germany to redeem itself... As clown ad it sounds, there is serious factions within Germany including the German normie who will get behind it although Russia thing is getting hard now
They had enough practice in Africa prior to carrying it out home
Lol
A bit more context for that quote:
The “one state” in the one-state solution is Israel, which currently views itself as an occupying power, and has Jewish Supremacy enshrined in her basic law (essentially constitution). Jews are not the group that is at risk in this scenario.
Yeah but have you thought about Israeli Jews though, shitlord?!
People are saying 1984 but Animal Farm is where it’s at
And another instance gets blocked
I am not reading that. Can we get some more non political instances and communities?
It’s talking about the tolerance paradox and Zionism won.
Does that need a wall of text larger than my screen though? Or at least use paragraphs
It does, the preview just doesn’t.
Ahh, that is a lot more readable.
Wtf is feddit
Some Lemmy instances call themselves by a different name. But Feddit.org is just a Lemmy server with a different name. It does make it very confusing for newcomers.
Palestinians, remember the following: you can resist your occupation but ONLY on the occupiers terms.
For the rest of us, remember the following: you can protest genocide, but ONLY on the genocider’s terms.
1984
I wonder if “Jews and non-Jews can’t live together, and thus Jews must be exiled to Israel” will be allowed…
Germany tried to create laws to prevent a repeat of the Holocaust. It’s a laudable effort but they’re failing at it.
The problem is that they were so specific about preventing “The Holocaust” that they ignored many other kinds of bigotry and racism. They thought that if they forbid a few key phrases and symbols, hatred would wither on the vine. Instead they just cleared the way for other aspects of racism to flourish.
Germany created laws to weaponize the Holocaust so they could commit another one.
That’s their result, not their intent
Genocide is the objective of the Zionist project. Germans aren't stupid, if they didn't see it 70 years ago, they surely figured it put since them but the policy stands
Germans loves following 'em laws 🤡
Wir haben er nicht gewusst.
Defederate. Let them be murderous genocide apologists on their own.