why is silly

This makes it just confusing? The pink heart = good, but the red cross = good too? But again the red cross seems bad as green = blocked.

Sorry I don’t get it.

Do you mind explaining what a fedipact is too?

I think this sounds way more reasonable. There’s will always be people like celebrities that I might want to follow, who will probably never be on mastodon or Lemmy. But I also understand the existential concerns for the future of the fediverse.

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Lol what democracy

On kbin/mbin you can look at https://<instance>/federation it has a list of known instances and right at the end is the list of defederated ones.

Oh, hard disagree on the last part, at least.

As always in left-leaning spaces, the best way to disarm any threat of reform is to wait for whatever purity test over a random issue to trigger a schism, sit back and watch. It's not even the first time it happens to Mastodon specifically.

In this case, a potential competitor that already has a reputation for being overcomplicated and having bad UX now needs an extra FAQ item called "can I interact with Threads from Mastodon?" and the answer is "it depends".

It's terrible, self-destructive and worse than either a yes or no call. Zuck boned Masto by federating a handful of employee accounts only AND he's still going to get the plausible deniability in front of regulators from federating with whatever's left. I'd be impressed if I thought Meta did it on purpose instead of it being entirely self-inflicted.

It’s not just ideological. Many people and instances on the fediverse have minorities using them. These minorities rely on it to share and discuss in safe spaces. The federation of threads is a threat to these safe space.

That’s Mastodon.world or is that the same as lemmy.world?

Thanks so much for the link!

Time to migrate my account then ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I was right to avoid making my account there then lol

though ig you can just migrate accounts now with 0.19

I still stand by that defederation as the only line of defense is a losing strategy. Keeping users siloed in Facebook’s garden shouldn’t be seen as a win for us.

• Embrace: Join the fediverse with your existing user base that dwarfs the fediverse’s existing user base, and with infinitely more money.
• Extend: Use your size, in terms of users and capital, to steer the direction of the ActivityPub fediverse standard to your advantage and your competitors’ disadvantage. You see everyone else as a competitor because you are a corporation seeking to monopolize the user base for profit.
• Extinguish: See what Google did to XMPP for a concrete example.

It prevents that specific strategy that would culminate in extinguishing. The idea being to siphon users away from other platforms, then add features that other platforms won’t or can’t implement, and use that to create an image of their own platform being better, having more features. If they succeed at having a lot of users oblivious to what’s happening, they will use those features, and when they don’t work for people on other platforms, they will blame the other platforms instead of their own, further cultivating the image that other platforms are broken/unreliable. In the end, they leave other platforms unable to compete, forcing users to either have a “broken”/incomplete experience, or migrate to their platforms. (Or leave the fediverse entirely). Or they can simply stop federating at that point, after users have left for their platform, cutting off the rest of the fediverse from content hosted on their platform.

The way defederating prevents a strategy like that is by cutting them off before they can get a foothold - they can’t make users feel left out if they don’t get to influence their experience in the first place.

This conversation will be off the record.

Ahaha, fuck no. If someone did go, please spill that tea.

Thanks for the understanding and help 😊

the blanket bans on 16+ content

The fuck? There’s literally an entire instance for porn.

Yep. They don’t care and they’re going to keep federation with Facebook so “users have the choice to opt out”

Mastodon’s largest instance is letting them in too

This feels like a basic misunderstanding of how the fediverse works. There are instances that embody your preferences and you can sign up for them.

One of the most important reasons I believe it is so useful to have a federverse that allows defederating is because ever since 2014 and 2015, and growing since then, there’s been a phenomenon of rabid online trolling and hyperpoliticization that’s had tendency to take over and destroy whatever pre-existing culture and norms existed, and the people doing it have leveraged bad faith free speech arguments to attempt to expose more platforms to their behavior, often making the same copy paste echo chamber argument that you are right now. I found the people making this argument to be operating from really shallow understandings of what intellectual diversity really means, because these people tend to ignore important components such as the paradox of tolerance, they tend not to believe that trolling or harassment campaigns are real, they tend not to be able to distinguish between “echo chamber” and the high level of discussion that’s possible when you found a community based on a common interest or shared set on principles, tend not to understand that you’re actually reducing the diversity of ideas by destroying each communities and turning all communities into the same thing, and tend to think of the full range of human ideas is represented in the unfortunately narrow framing of left-right spectrum which is most pertinent in American politics.

And for the fediverse, it calls the bluff perfectly, because for people who are concerned about echo chambers or “exposure to ideas” (yeah, which ones??), such people are able to join an instance that gives them the thing they say they want. But what they really tend to want is unmoderated unfiltered exposure to a captive audience, and the tangled contradictory mishmash of arguments about free speech and being open to ideas are just a means to that end. And so, they tend to be completely empty-handed when you ask them to explain why they feel specific instances need to federate or de-federate, you just get vague nothingburger speeches.

To be clear I don’t think that everyone making the argument thinks that way, I think some people are unwittingly doing the work of bad actors without meaning to. It’s just that I’ve seen this argument made over and over, and I feel like there’s some sort of boot camp we should all put ourselves through that involves understanding the history and some core ideas, because it could save everyone a lot of time.

IMO the way to prevent such a scenario from happening is not by blocking Meta, but by inviting equally large competitors to join the fediverse. The described tactic can only work if you have close to a monopoly.

But isn’t this just a database screenshot?