Conservative and/or right wing, authoritarian, reactionary (feel free to pick your favorite analogous label) views are ethically wrong and lack evidence to add a worthy perspective to discussions. Capitalism is a belief and should be discussed as other religions.

Liberals are not leftists.

There appears to be a lack of “centrist”, non-political, or right-wing voices (and I don’t mean extreme MAGA-type views, but rather more moderate conservative positions).

They hang out in /modlog.

so you’re suggesting, what, exactly?

say I’d observed this trend as well, and agreed there was a risk (I don’t but let’s follow your chain of thinking) - what then?

Because I’m sure there’s a desire for conservatives to have alternatives to reddit, but I as they can federate their own instances and have damn near free reign over whatever communities they want to create, I don’t really understand what’s to be gained from any actions that might be taken. We won’t convince them it’s a conservative haven, and that’s genuinely what they want, a safe space where no one questions their conservatism.

so what is it you’re thinking?

1. Yes I noticed this too
2. It already is, which is a shame
3. Yes it's a problem because even if you try to get a balanced amount of all the views in your Lemmy subscriptions it's not possible, at the same time bubbles radicalize people.
4. Let discussions happen, don't delete and ban because you're against the view (as long as it's not continuously spamming)
5. Benefit: You see people as humans even if they are wrong, Drawback: you need to sometimes change your mind in face of new evidence showing up, which it wouldn't if you stay in your bubble.

The thing which I really dislike with a bubble is that people inside of it get more and more radical and ban even their allies because they're not radical enough.

There appears to be a lack of “centrist”

“Progressive” liberals in fact the centrists—they’re center-left at best—and there are plenty of them here.

right-wing voices (and I don’t mean extreme MAGA-type views, but rather more moderate conservative positions)

These people are liberals as well, but because they usually break Lemmy’s code of conduct regarding various bigotries, they get usually quickly the boot.

non-political

Everything social is political, and the fediverse is social media.

Given how likely right wing conservatives tends to spread misinformation and cite low quality sources, I honestly don't mind the lack of right wingers.

Yeah, it’s not necessarily bad but it affects my point of view

Some might deny it, some might agree but decide it’s for the best and apparently, others will just denote the least left of the leftists as conservative scum

Given the recent right wing takeover of other social media sites and the glorification of hate speech I am fine not seeing that bullshit spread here.

Yes it’s very important to accommodate genocide and climate denialism. 🙄

Discussions often feel like they’re happening within an ideological bubble.

While this can be true for some communities, I find that users here do still engage with other viewpoints when the discussions are in good faith.

I think the reason why a lot of users lean in a certain political direction is because of

• the origins of Lemmy
• users that choose to leave the older platforms may have done so for social / political reasons
• threadiverse is still relatively small

Do you think Lemmy is at risk of becoming an echo chamber for leftist views, a sort of Truth Social, Parler, Gab, etc., esque platform, but for Leftists?

I feel like we’re getting more politically diverse over time. It’s only a risk if we force a certain political leaning through moderation.

Is this a problem we should be concerned about, or is it a natural result of Lemmy’s community-driven nature?

Worth keeping an eye on to see how it changes over time

How might we encourage more diverse political perspectives while still maintaining a respectful and inclusive environment?

Mainly moderation. If a community or space is intended for a particular group, it’s perfectly fine to moderate how you see fit. If it is meant to be a general space, try to limit political biases when moderating and focus on bad faith comments.

If a post/comment was in good faith, it’s more effective to let someone explain why it is wrong rather than removing it. Chances are that others can learn from the explanation (or that they were correct to begin with, and you’ll learn something)

What are the potential benefits and drawbacks of having a more politically diverse user base on Lemmy?

The benefits are easy, I can’t think of many drawbacks. Maybe:

• More people = higher moderation costs (which can be dealt with by having bigger teams)
• More drama (we have drama already)

Not counting lemmygrad and hexbear most of lemmy instances is completely liberal, at best radical liberal. I seriously doubt your statement about being communist if you call for more centrism and think we need more rightwing info.

You want more rightwing? Go anywhere else in the internet, there’s full of it everywhere. What is lacking everywhere else, is communist point of view.

I am an independent and politically nonbinary, but people like assuming, almost always incorrectly, what I am thinking. The people on the right think I am left, and the people on the left think I am right. Apparently it is all relative, and the attitude of "if you disagree with me, you must be evil" is way too prominent, both on the left and the right.

I like listening to a variety of viewpoints because I can learn something new about human nature, even if I disagree with their opinion. It allows me to spot patterns that others don't see.

It also allows me to better understand and respond to flawed thinking and dangerous ideas. For example, giving power to someone who is power-hungry is dangerous, no matter what propaganda they are spouting. And there are opportunists and snakes in the grass all over the political spectrum. Just because they say the right things does not mean they do the right things. People don't always like it when that is pointed out. They confuse the leader for the cause.

The problem with remaining in an information bubble surrounded by like-minded people is that you start assuming that everyone thinks like you, which is usually not true at all. Both the right and the left fall into this trap sometimes. And people who have not experienced other cultures also fall into this trap. It creates an unrealistic and inaccurate view of the world. It also results in a shock when they realize that people on the other side of the world or from a different background think completely differently than they do.

It is one of the reasons why the Democrats lost the election in the U.S. They assumed they were the majority because they surrounded themselves with people who agreed with them and they repeatedly blocked or canceled anyone who disagreed. As a result, they shifted further and further away from what the people wanted, abandoned the working class, embraced unpopular views, and then wondered why they lost the swing voters, thereby giving the election to their arch enemies.

Cultivating and remaining in an information bubble is like shooting yourself in the foot and blaming the other side. The more you isolate yourself, the less reach your ideas have, and the less influence you have over society.

To be frank, some people are actually hoping both the far left and the far right becomes increasingly isolationist. It would mean they disappear from the mainstream consciousness since they silence themselves by blocking anyone who disagrees with them. That way they talk to themselves instead of bothering the mainstream middle, who are the actual majority.

The fact is, you don't hear much from the people in the middle because they get attacked from both the right and the left, and most people don't like the drama. Instead, they just go to the ballot box and vote against the politicians they don't like.

In an idea world, we could talk about the issues and come up with some non-partisan solutions. But society has become so polarized, I am not sure that is even possible anymore.

I dunno. I’m fairly far left, and moderately radicalized, and I get plenty of pushback. And from both those further left, and those that are US left (which is more centric overall).

Yeah, you don’t get as many right wingers, but they do exist, and they tend to be willing to speak up. On the less crazy instances, they don’t even get shut down by admins/mods, though they’ll get down voted all to hell.

But I can’t say that lemmy as a whole is that echoey. It just leans more left than any other form of social media.

I think the idea that all viewpoints are equally valuable and need to be given equal weight or volume in discussions is incredibly fallacious. Left wing ideals are backed by a multitude of research as well as ethical and moral philosophies. I don’t know how you could be a leftist and say “what this place really needs is more right-wing voices” with a straight face. The whole “im just asking questions, everyone deserves to be heard, i just want to hear both sides of the argument” is a common tactic the right uses to try to seem reasonable and propagandize more people. Some ideas aren’t worth hearing out and can only do damage to those who listen.

I think a lot of the responses you’re getting (and their upvotes) are pretty good reflections of the problem you’re addressing.

I imagine the user base is a bit more diverse than the comments etc let on. It is just exhausting to even try to explain a conservative perspective viewpoint t here so I think a lot of folks just keep their heads down on anything political.

While a lot of folks have zero interest in venturing outside of their ideological comfort zones, I wonder if there sre enough of us that we could make some /community work. There were a few on reddit that were private or super tightly moderated that were pretty interesting for stuff like that…

The thing about the right wing is that it always boils down to the cruelty being the point. People play it up -just- being a difference of opinion like we’re talking about whether or not pineapple is good on pizza; when the opinions in question are that brown people are inferior, trans people people don’t deserve rights, a woman’s life is worth less than a fetus, etc: there’s no valuable dialogue to be had. Ban the fucker and don’t look back.

The closest thing to valuable dialogue you’re going to get with that garbage is the bullshit veneer they slap onto their vitriol to make it easier to sell - the whole white knight bit about protecting babies or bathrooms or some other nonsense that conveniently lands the same outgroups into a bind every single time. If you think any of that shit is in good faith, you’ve fallen for a trap before the conversation even starts.

Diversity of thought is great, up until we start turning to hatred/bigotry for a fresh perspective. Those are not welcome here, nor should they be anywhere else.

Two big problems are

, when you talk with the Right, you don’t have to dig very deep before you encounter dishonesty.

When you talk with Liberals, they are not politically aware at all

There is enough variance between and within authleft and libleft.

‘Centrist’ and right wing voices belong in the gulag.

I find it interesting that some people are saying "the right is this" and "conservatives are that" and then saying horrible things most people would be opposed to. How would you know if you never talk to them and just assume what they think?

I think most people assume the extreme right is the entire right, just like most people assume the extreme left is the entire left. It's actually a spectrum. Or more accurately, a Nolan chart.

Most people I know are in the center, and they oppose racial segregation, oppose racism, oppose oppression, oppose monopolies, and oppose corrupt officials. But since they are not communists or socialists, some people on the left lump them in with the far right, which the center doesn't like either.  

And if you attack the people in the center by falsely accusing them of being the right, all you are doing is alienating people who might agree with you on a lot of things.

Seems like lemmy.world already provides plenty of right wing perspectives, we really don’t need me.

I like science. Science has shown that communism (for proletariat) and neoliberalism (for bourgies) are most effective and I dont see a lot of bourgies here.

Liberalism and stuff are like miasma theory or newton physics, outdated and incorrect.

(I think the left-right stuff is a distraction. Where is communism? On the left with the radlibs? No. On the right with the monarchists? No. There is no sliding scale between liberalism and communism as they are completely incompatible with each other.)

Someone asked this same question a while ago related to also Linux users present.

Basically seems to come down to techies being mostly left winged more frequently which makes up the vasg majority of Lemmy.

I don’t miss the global echo and it’s kinda nice to read civil discussions or talks.

Though i dont really focus too much on the political topic or consider people such to make it my concern when I read.

Just generally enjoy the good talks, advice and things like I remember how the internet started when it also had 0 political interest.

I’ve seen right wing liberals, left wing liberals, marxists, stalinists and anarchists just to name a few. If anything there is more diversity here than other platforms as it isn’t just various shades of liberal.

I think the problem is in the opposite direction. Society is too ideologically homogeneous in being against socialism. The major narratives are controlled by nation-states and corporations, social media are infested with political advertisement and propaganda.

So, as others say, I believe it is sorta uninformed and middle-of-the-road fallacy to find a corner of the internet where you can speak your mind without being harassed by white supremacist trolls, and say we need more diverse views.

Right wingers have (had) Parlel, Gap, TruthSocial, now they have X, and Facebook, where they were also dominating and harassing in the past. No leftists and/or genderqueer person would survive a day at these platforms.

But Lemmy being primarily/explicitly leftist is the problem, and you suddenly are alarmed for echo chambers. This is not quite fair, now is it.

As for Lemmy per se, I don’t think it is too homogeneous. I debate centrists and liberals every other day. And recent discussions showed that the amount of latent transphobia in the site is shocking, with people knowing next to nothing apart from 4chan/MAGA talking points.

How can this happen after all these years of activism and outreach. It is because of the ecosystem of echo chambers in the broader communications and media landscape. This discourse never reached those people.

Considering it was the position of major medical and professional organizations, it shows that the pathology lies with the existing social media and broader media enterprizes, with a prominently selective messaging.

Do I need to say that this led to widespread science-denialism for which mainstream platforms are clearly to blame?

If your inquiry is honest, then the only explanation is that the propaganda apparatus works so well, that the (relative) absence of the dominating narratives makes you anxious that you entered an echo chamber, when in fact you probably have been in an echo chamber so far.

We already have people praising Liz Cheney.

You could say “I am noticing a distinct lack of Neo Nazis on Lemmy”.

To which I say why change that.

Using Lemmy requires some modicum of understanding in technology. Most conservatives I’ve encountered tend to be technology-ignorant at best, and technophobic at worst. You don’t see as many differing political views on Lemmy cause some/most conservatives are too inept at technology or can’t be bothered to figure it out.

Reddit was just easier to get into, and as much as I personally like Lemmy, it’s a hard sell to some from the outset. If the signup could be simplified (which I understand federation and why it can’t be that easy), we could see an influx of more outdated viewpoints on the platform.

I also agree with others who have stated that most “conservative” philosophy involves denying rights to those who have only recently (last 50 years or so) been afforded rights equal to their own. I’m also growing increasingly suspicious of how much lead was actually used in the products consumed by boomers and some Gen-x before its use was known and most of it banned or removed from products. It seems too many in their late 40+ are going from normal human being with empathy towards others to RAGING MAGA CONSPIRACIST, seemingly overnight.

I think this is the case, yes. From my pov the technical ability to block others and defederate leads to this left leaning trend. This is the only place I know that is really left leaning.

But the important part here is: the distinction between left and right is arbitrary. There is no left and right. There are certain beliefs and ideas which usually get attributed towards left or right.

The idea of freedom - in most of the world - isnt really left or right, or at least used to be.

Especially the fascist turn of the us, the fascist turn of germany and others are a sign of the world turning, not lemmy.

Because freedom, flow of ideas and identity are still typical topics on lemmy. Same as they used to be. I think the right wing nuts just left since they are more welcome on xitter and fascbook.

Is that good for critical discourse? No. Can we change it? No idea. Should we change it? No idea.

I find circles around .world to be more liberal and not leftist. (Not that there aren’t any on .world… Just leans that way)

There’s not much in terms of right wing spaces but tbh I’m uh, completely fine with that.

Lemmy has always had the Communists and Anarchists, from what I understand. Liberals largely came during the Reddit fiascos. Overall, I’d say instances are becoming more homogenous, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing necessarily. I’d rather have more leftists and fewer liberals seeing liberals convert to leftists, IMO.

There is no such thing as a “moderate conservative” any more. IMO the difference has always been mainly, how mask off they were prepared to go. Trump has shown them that you can go fully mask off without any negative consequences.

It’s important though to not fall into the trap of creating false balance, i.e. giving the same weight to a false or harmful statement than to a truthful or good statement, in the name of “fairness” or “objectivity”. Also, conservatives tend to shift to the right currently.

like bluesky is rightist , lemmy may be leftist . it also depends on the server , left has blocked right and vice versa . try to find a right one

Conservatism is generally a worthless ideology that makes the world worse, so I don’t feel a desire to spend more time with it. We don’t need to debate “what if women don’t have rights”, “what if gay stuff is illegal?”, “what if you had to pay for health care so if you were poor you’d just die?” or whatever.

Everywhere else in my life is centrist or rightwing. I enjoy having somewhere to escape it.

There are plenty of people on the fediverse that are clearly free and independent thinkers - as in not operating from inside a bubble where they get fed opinions and views from others and them regurgitating those views ad nauseam. On Lemmy, I see a lot of curiosity and a lot of people who were probably censored or effectively buried by downvotes on other platforms, despite their good faith and interesting (and sometimes radical) perspectives.

Discussion flows well, there’s less focus on upvotes/downvotes and there is no karma. There doesn’t seem to be a tradition of dog-piling people who wrong-think according to the group consensus (or whatever neoliberal narrative is prevailing) as there is on Reddit. Moderation is much less heavy-handed and there are no shadowbans/comments that don’t show up for others (but only for yourself). There are significantly less bots and almost zero astroturfed content, as well.

Worry less about the labels, I say. If you want mainstream or conservative opinions, it’s very easy to seek them out - the internet is full of those perspectives. If you’re curious, you could play devil’s advocate and discuss current events or other hot topics from a mainstream perspective and ask others why they think differently to better understand the userbase on the fediverse and how things generally go down here. I’m sure plenty of people would be happy to weigh the pros and cons of different viewpoints and perspectives and entertain a discussion about certain issues in good faith.

Not everybody is filtering everything out from a polarized lens and is focused on being an absolutist or purist with their preferred ideology.

As a non-American the issue as I see it is that too much of Lemmy is dominated by Americans and therefore American politics. I scroll through and read a ton of comments about how monstrous and vile the right wing is, and that’s just simply not true where I live. The popular American right is incredibly authoritarian and seeks to control all aspects of ones life. The right wing in my country is purely economic. You can debate capitalism vs communism I guess but no part of my countries right wants to remove the rights of women or the lgbt. Its all just a matter of where you live. And most people here live in the States.

@Teknevra
I'm not a part of Lemmy, but I will say this: There are some people with whom reasonable dialog is just not possible. Speaking only for myself, I choose not to engage. That does not mean I'm not aware of what they are saying or thinking. It means that I am drawing a healthy boundary for myself.

Your feelings about it are valid. You should absolutely seek out more mixed spaces, if that is what you want to do.

Cheers!

obligatory reminder that us-american domestic politics are so skewed to the right that what appears “moderate” in the usa is right to far-right anywhere else

your “liberals” are right-wing your “conservatives” are right-wing both are liberals

I have been saying a number of times over the course of my time here, that I think the “echo chamber”-ness of Lemmy is by design.

Each instance is moderated by a different team of people who run their server under a different philosophy. You can see clearly in this thread many from the lemmy.ml instance express mild disdain for “liberals”, whereas other instances like lemmy.world and lemm.ee don’t hold such animosity to that collective extent, but admins hold other expectations for what should be the norm. The way I view the Fediverse is that it’s a collection of echo chambers, which within them help foster discussion between like-minded individuals. However these are networked with each other so you can wander outside that bubble to other instances when you feel like it. You also have control to block groups and instances you don’t vibe with.

I know some instance moderation policies remove posts and comments that go far against the grain, but in other instances, unpopular takes just get super downvoted but left for people to see.

Reason and Science has always a left leaning bias. Simply because Nature doesn’t give a shit about individual feelings or if someone believes if homosexuality is wrong. Nature does it’s thing an humans who accept and understand this are not left-leaning but normal.

Corporate Social Media is manipulated like hell to shift the bias. That’s it.

Reading this thread, i think lemmy has a real problem. There sre a few comments that appear centrist or left-leaning, but the majority of comments are extremely left.

I’m not asking for neo-nazis or far right, just more centrist opinions like in this thread

I don’t think so, there is a lot of very different opinions but all debatables. The only thing which, at least in the instances in my Timeline, are far right wing or faschist users.

Lemmy.worldi is full of right wing neolibs, who rule it with an iron fist. A pride flag doesn’t make a Cheney dem “left.”

Hearing from “both sides” and coming to some compromise/middle ground only works if the following is true:

1. Both parties are acting in good faith.
2. The viewpoints expressed are close enough that they don’t require a total departure from one’s current viewpoint.
3. The disputed topic doesn’t have a obvious or clear correct answer.

The problem is, at least in the US, none of these are true for right wingers and even many “centrists.”

You cannot talk to somebody and try to find common ground if they don’t believe in statistical studies by government agencies, they don’t believe in scientific studies by major universities and research institutions, and don’t care about the rights and protections for minority groups.

The older members of my family are almost all conservatives, MAGA supporters, and fundamentalist Christians.

They genuinely believe that Evolution is a myth and the Earth was created 6000 years ago. They believe that illegal immigrants are invading this country and that Democrats are secretly allowing them to. They don’t believe humans have any effect on climate change. They don’t think Covid was anything more than a common cold that the government used as an excuse to try to control people. They don’t believe in vaccines.

I find Lemmy to be very refreshing. I get news from a diverse collection of Leftists sources. Anarchists, statists, weak socialists like the AOC/Bernie types, government studies, independent guerrilla journalists, Communists, Mutualists, Marxists, etc.

But I have no interest in further “diversifying” by adding right wing “sources.”

Cookies can taste good with many different ingredients, but no cookie tastes good with horse poop.

Conservatives can quite frankly go somewhere else.

Their policies are terrible and the only redeeming qualities of most countries we live in are socialist.

Lemmy should reflect the actual political spectrum which is (IMO) Social Democrats on the far right and Tankies on the far left.

Booooooooo

The size of my block list tells me there are plenty of right-wing voices on the platform. No everyone on that list is right-wing, but I’m fairly certain a majority of them are.

1. There appears to be a lack of “centrist”, non-political, or right-wing voices (and I don’t mean extreme MAGA-type views, but rather more moderate conservative positions).

I see plenty of them. They’re just mostly on other instances to me (like your home instance).

Furthermore, while it’s tempting to see the so-called ‘left’ and ‘right’ as equivalent mirrors needing to be balanced for diversity, the reality is far from it. After seeing Wolfballs in action (that instance died before the reddit API fiasco), I can tell you we don’t need to be balanced out by ‘white genocide’ discussions and more open anti-semitism. I know that’s not what you proposed, but it’s to illustrate that sometimes there isn’t value in arbitrary balancing the ‘left’ and ‘right’ on these websites.

is it a natural result of Lemmy’s community-driven nature?

It’s also a result of Lemmy’s history and appeal. When reddit went on sprees of deleting subreddits, the right-wing hate groups made their own reddit clones, anarchists typically went to Raddle, and when GenZedong and ChapoTrapHouse went down, they went to Lemmygrad.ml (as a result, it became the largest instance) and created Hexbear respectively. So there is a long history of larger communist communities from day one which was the status quo until the reddit API fiasco.

The Fediverse also tends to attract anarchists and other socialists by the appeal of its decentralized nature, along with a few right-libertarians who see it as an anti-censorship tool. So one could say there’s a bias there.

How might we encourage more diverse political perspectives while still maintaining a respectful and inclusive environment?

That’s tough, because you inherently limit which political perspectives you can encourage.

I don’t think having Nazis and Zionists here would make anything better, make anyone sympathize with them, or find common ground. This is a place where we can be safe, why add people who are purposefully being dishonest and spreading disinformation? They aren’t misinformed people, they are real pieces of shit who hold a genuinely wrong position/s; they want to piss you off to ruin your day. I already have enough discourse with these people everywhere else, why here?

My instance has conservative and anti-leftist communities. They’re more the personal playgrounds of a few people with humiliation and persecution fetishes though.

We shouldn’t be encouraging or squelching any political diversity whatsoever, we should be honing in more and more on how things actually are in the world, and the effects things are likely to have, regardless of who it pisses off or pleases.

Lack of fake accounts/trolls like on other platforms and you’ll have that.

As a leftist myself (communist)

Very, how do you do fellow kids energy from this comment.

I don’t think I’ve ever interacted with a communist who would be upset about a lack of reactionaries in their spaces, they’d be relieved to have a place free of them and their ignorance and hate.

And the fact you think that “centrists” and “right-wing” are somehow not extremists (but this made up special category of MAGA which by the way is most conservatives in the US and in a lot of the world somehow is) tells me you are politely not really politically literate.

Liberals are reactionary enough in their excuse for genocide, you think for some reason we need space for not only them but the people who want to take away rights from trans people, who want to kill trans kids, who want to make women second class citizens, who are incredibly racist, war-mongering, anti-science, etc?

As much as I align with many of the views expressed here, I wonder if we’re missing out on valuable dialogue and perspective by not having a more diverse range of political opinions represented.

You can get that literally anywhere else offline or online, especially your home instance. You’re not from a leftist instance but from the most reddit-brained, centrist neo-lib instance.

This is false equivalence, the idea that the left is too extreme and needs balancing with the right. Please just accurately identify your politics or don’t bother mentioning them as we can easily guess them from a post like this.

This place def needs more centrists. Too many libs sucking themselves (and each other) off. Not more MAGA though. Those guys are just wrong

I’m kind of surprised to see a post like this here, reference most of the many comments. In my experience online discussion trends towards radicalism and it’s not an ideal forum (ha) for reasonable political discussions; for example it’s very simple to demonize something, and with minimal penalty. One thing I can tell you is that there’s plenty of extremism here, and my feed is even spec’d towards memes and to avoid politics. The concentration is aggressive enough that these other perspectives you’re looking for are quickly savaged and oftentimes only expressed by people who aren’t smart in picking their fights and it shows in their viewpoints too. No idea how one would address that, like I said I think online forums are probably not the right tool for this sort of thing. Idk man, I just want my memes and hobby info without watching people seethe about American politics and wish for the murder of rich people in almost every community, political or not

We are doing fine. Don’t overthink lemmy.

People go where they want, Block what they will. Share what they share.

What else do you need? We aren’t driven by shareholders to infinitely grow. Instances/communities/users will come and go, but lemmy is forever. It’s just going to get better from here till we get a “TikTok ban” from big brother. Enjoy the ride.

There appears to be a lack of “centrist”, non-political, or right-wing voices (and I don’t mean extreme MAGA-type views, but rather more moderate conservative positions).

TBF, they don’t exist.

They’re might be some that on appearance hold reasonable views that are considered centrist /moderate conservative but if their privilege is questioned or their fragile egos get scuffed, they always and invariably go full on far right.

Their moderate views are just a veneer that are held to appear as such and never stand up to pressure.

Participating in this thread had left me feeling like lemmy is much more of an echo chamber than what I thought before.

I like being disagreed with on occasion, but don’t feel like anyone really listened here. That is very internet but also pretty concerning.

Holy mother of superiority complex in this thread.

If I saw serious attempts anywhere from right-wingers to advocate for their views as an actual political philosophy I’d be more concerned by this. But we need spaces where people actually discuss how to build a better society, and simply because of that concern these spaces lean left. It’s rare to find right-wingers who are even seriously interested in that question, except as a pretext to vent their unexamined prejudices and personality issues.

If, on internet forums, you push for everyone to have equal say even when their views are not well considered, everyone’s energy gets used up arguing with the most offensive right-wing posters. I think it’s a good thing to have spaces where that isn’t how it goes. As for centrists, I think there’s a place for engaging with them because there’s more of a chance that they just haven’t examined their views but can be brought to. But I’m not going to miss them if they’re so put off by a left-leaning space that they won’t participate, and I don’t think every left space needs to spend its time arguing with liberals.

Frankly, my view of the right wing these days is that there’s no particular need to treat a mishmash of selfishness, greed, lust for power, deceit, gullibility, ignorance, insecurity and hatred as if it’s a political philosophy at all. Left versus right isn’t a helpful picture. Serious vs unserious would be a better one. If someone has serious arguments for a right-wing position made in good faith, then they’re not just wasting people’s time. But that’s not usually what you see, and I suspect it’s because there’s a lack of serious arguments to be made for it.

I don’t miss the right-wing voices. For the most part they just dominate, disrupt and obstruct serious discussion. That said, it’s important we don’t forget how unrepresentative our online discussions are of society as a whole, and how little impact merely talking about them here has.

There is the same kind of special snowflake attitude on here that ruined Reddit. You people only want to have your exclusive social bubble where you can sniff each other’s farts. I’m not interested in that.

Personally, I don’t buy this echo chamber shit. Before social media, you choose your spaces and your company and did not have to put up with random jackasses butting into your conversations to tell you how much they hate gay people or whatever.

The abnormal thing is this expectation that we’re all supposed to meet in the middle with any asshole at all times. I’m happy with a townhall meeting once in a while but I don’t want to or need to put up with bigots and people who are otherwise socio-politically the opposite of me on a daily basis.

I want to be in the company of people that don’t make me feel like shit and who I can see eye to eye with. That’s not being closed minded or wanting an echo chamber, that’s normal.

I wish lemmy had more niche interest groups, like marvel champions card game. Then there’d be something to talk about that isn’t how we should force others to give a percetage of their earnings to the goxernment.

Election time was so irritating, Lemmy basically reigned in Harris as the next messiah; I had to end up blocking political keywords to make it usable. Kamala Harris is an absolute joke and the DNC is an even bigger joke. I remember seeing one post where someone basically claimed she has a spotless political career and I’m just thinking, 😮‍💨, really?

The problem with left leaning individuals on the internet is we have a lot of drive and conviction behind our ideas which is a good thing, but that should translate into real life activism or doing something that will combat the current political system and promote change. But we are beaten down since that’s basically a total pipe dream, we realize what the problem is and feel powerless to fix it. What’s

Now, whats a good way to regain some of the power over your “opponents”? Silence their opinion, whether that be outright censorship or in other ways that are antithetical to getting the point across.

The American political system has us fighting amongst one another to keep people distracted from who is really fucking everyone up the ass daily. And it continues to work. We need to stop this petty squabbling and use all this wasted energy on something useful that could actually bring us together, like maybe instead of just browsing social media all day, you could go out in to the real world.

I am left-leaning and live in a predominantly conservative area. Very red. When I go out, people usually don’t just randomly talk about Trump all day, that’s just not reality. Most people dont make their political views their entire personality. I hear way more about Trump from social media than I am ever do from people in real life. And I assure you, I don’t seek it out.

You have way more in common with the other side than you realize. Social media allows the worst aspects of peoples personality to come out since you don’t have to look at a human being in front of you that has feelings, goals, beliefs, dreams, et al. just like you do. Have some god damn compassion and maybe try to understand why people on the other side have come to the conclusions they have, instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I’ll offer this thought…

When I used to discuss politics with someone who viewed policy from the perspective of a different political party say 25-30 years ago, I would say 90-95% of what we wanted to see happen in the country was exactly the same. The differences were in how we wanted to get there.

Unfortunately, today I don’t think that the views align much any more. The views have diverged, and at least on the right, they have become extreme to the point of openly courting fascism, government capture by the oligarchy, and the masses supporting this don’t care about the consequences so long as they think they have a punitive moral victory over their opponents. The left isn’t really the left anymore, and I’m not sure what they want for the country. I don’t think they know either. They seem more interested in inclusivity than they do in actually making economic policy benefitting anyone under the upper middle class level.

All that said, I have yet to encounter one single instance of a conservative view on lemmy that wasn’t radical and antagonistic. I have also encountered far left views that were also radical and antagonistic. Far more hard left views than right, perhaps because there are so many hard left views the right stays away.

I don’t have the answer to what would increase the breadth of political content in Lemmy discussions, but the highly polarized and emotional views of politics along with internet anonymity isn’t really a recipe for balanced discussion. We haven’t even touched on organized propaganda deliberately pushing inflammatory posts and lies that incite reactionary and extreme views in return.

lol posting this on the most notoriously censored instance, on a platform intentionally removed from the fediverse for this very reason.

Echo chambers are the flavour of lemmy. Think wrong is quickly censored.

I don’t understand this thought process. If the far left is preaching facts and kindness, and the other side is literally Nazies we need more left homogeneous thinking. We need to get educated and organized about the issues facing humanity. When the far left starts to be anti science and facts then you can begin to worry.

I’m interested in this, i left reddit due to that, if it’s just a reddit 2.0 i’m better getting off. So far it looks samey.

Wait you’re saying that calling people nazis if they have a different viewpoint than you doesn’t foster diversity? Who would have thought.

You sure you’re a leftist? I see more leftism allowed to exist on Lemmy than other platforms, but the majority of it certainly leans neoliberal.

Try criticizing NATO or the Democrats in Lemmy communities. See how fast the powermods and groupthink kick in to put a stop to it.

But of course the rightwing stuff gets targeted, too. The mods here seem keen to mirror the narrow pro-neoliberal Reddit viewpoint of what is acceptable speech. Anything beyond that will result in a strike against the user or instance.

ETA: just got banned from another Lemmy.world community for pointing out the original NATO commanders were Nazis. There you have it.

go back to Reddit nerd

As a leftist myself (communist), I generally enjoy the content and discussions on Lemmy.

<img alt="fry “not sure if” meme, with cropped versions of the Willem Dafoe “something of a scientist” and Steve Buscemi “fellow kids” memes in the top corners. (no text.)" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/d380a42a-1409-4475-afec-647855f17753.png">

There’s a lot of stuff written on this topic, but I haven’t seen this mentioned yet: there are conservative instances on Lemmy, as a platform. Most of them are widely defederated, not necessarily for the views of the majority (though in some cases, yes), but because of asshats deliberately causing trouble.

Unfortunately, this is also a product of a wider shift in discourse by the right (understood in a North American context), which appeals mostly to edgelords rather than the (rapidly shrinking, already shrunk to the point of irrelevance/non-existence one could argue) thinking, at least ostensibly humanistic conservative.

There’s self-selection in action here. Which makes sense, even if I also find it troubling (there are people who can be reasoned with drowned out by Nazi assholes, who are willing to hear people out on the not-Nazi stuff, give positive reinforcement and with it a home to get radicalized).

I don’t have a good answer, and if I did I’d probably be up for a Nobel Prize given how wide and damaging the problem is. It ain’t just here - it’s pretty much anywhere anyone expresses any idea. I just happen to like this side of the Threadiverse much more, so it’s where I hang out.

Only real hope is meatspace, imo. And even then, not everyone has the privilege to engage this way in meatspace without a direct risk to their personal safety (see POC, our trans brothers and sisters, LGTBQ+ folks, etc.).

Since my (leftist) instance is blocked, OP probably can’t even read this comment.

That irony aside, although I disagree that federated Lemmy as a whole is homogenous, it’s only natural that an alternative social network would skew away from the mainstream, and that instances would be relatively homogenous internally.

I believe this is by design, but to expect something else is unrealistic. The only options for Lemmy would be for it to be either further left or further right than Reddit. And there are a couple fascist instances, though they are blocked.

Given that in the US leftist perspectives on anything are few and hard to come by, I welcome Lemmy’s primarily leftist slant on things. Should one want to get a fascist or center/center right perspective, pretty much everything in the mass media in the US will provide that.

I have noticed this trend. On the one hand, “Truth has a liberal bias” has always been true. If a community is geared towards truth and evidence, like as not it will lean left. There is copious evidence for this, for any random topic.

On the other hand, it has resulted in a lot of “I downvote complexity” behavior, which is, in my view, problematic. It is very easy to take stances of ideological purity online, and behave as if any recognition of greater complexity is EVIL!!1! I see this again and again. This is a way to make your ideological movement irrelevant and unworkable.

As much as folks decry the rigor of the MAGA right, where fealty to Trump is the only virtue, the Progressive left exhibits the exact same rigor, the exact same intolerance for deviation from its allies. Both Progressives and MAGAts see this as a virtue, but it very much is not: it locks you into a worldview that eliminates important complexity and any ability to see things from alternate perspectives. If you have a belief that your perspective is the only correct one, then the vast majority of the time, you’re wrong.

I don’t consider myself leftist or rightist. I flip both ways on different issues and the middle on other things.

How ever Lemmy is becoming less tolerant of jokes and any view that doesn’t line up with a moderator’s view on the world.

It took a long time for me to get a ban but it’s happened a couple times now.

Admittedly they’re from .ml

Though some more left leaning communities have gone full on dog like as though it’s Reddit

There are many posts preaching for the choir, but I wouldn’t call it an echo chamber. It’s more like a dead sound chamber where the ideas dies in agreement. It doesn’t bounce off the walls or resonate. It’s already there so no answer is required.

Lemmy would benefit from more users playing the devil’s lawyer, but I think it’s too small for anyone to use their main profile for that, and alt-accounts would quickly get blocked or banned.

Actual users with opposing views wouldn’t be of much help. Politics isn’t very nuanced these days. It’s not red or blue, left or right or whatever. It’s polarized into a new duality: Those that give a shit and those who are proud idiots. Lemmy is on the good side of this and will not benefit from being more accepting of idiots.

It is very rigid in its ideologies, even more so than reddit.

Lemmy is the definition of a left-wing echo chamber. We all see it and if you downvote me for pointing this out - you are lying to yourself.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

• Yes

• Yes

• Maybe; yes

• It’s a mindset thing. The more you interact with others positively while disagreeing, the better things will get. This only applies to reasonable disagreements.

• People will learn more, but people will be wrong more. Unchecked political diversity drives away normal takes. No political diversity makes people afraid to voice disagreement.

This is such a strange take to me.

I was on the broader fediverse for a year or so before lemmy took off, and I got used to the very strong left leaning environment I found there, where compassion for your impact on the people around you was built in to the norms of many of the communities. I wasn’t used to it, but I was so glad to have found it.

And then lemmy happened. And unlike the rest of the fediverse, which was largely populated by people escaping twitter because it had been taken over by a fascist, the lemmy population was largely people escaping reddit because they could no longer use 3rd party apps. And the difference in ideology between those two groups is night and day.

To me, the broader fediverse feels left wing and comfortable. Lemmy feels centrist, where half of my time as an admin is banning trolls and bigots spreading hate.

tl;dr - Your definition of leftist is not my definition of leftist.