Why Lemmy is so superior to Reddit: No Karma, Just Value Content
from wittycomputer@feddit.org to fediverse@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 23:41
https://feddit.org/post/9325094
from wittycomputer@feddit.org to fediverse@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 23:41
https://feddit.org/post/9325094
Lemmy’s design is focused on quality content by ditching the Karma farmers and addicts. No more chasing upvotes—people here actually focus on real value instead of feeding the ego.
EDIT: I know there are upvotes and downvotes, but the problem with Reddit is you can’t post in most communities if your karma or reputation is bad. This is a big problem because herd mentality prevails there and if ypu have unpopular opinions you’re basically censored.
Lemmy isn’t designed to milk ypur dopamine with notifications every 10 upvotes, so you focus more on posting valuable cont instead of farming for approval and upvotes.
threaded - newest
Ironically, this account’s bio and its history is screaming “I am a LLM posting a bunch of AI slop”.
What makes you say that?
Bio: “Your Digital Workshop. We build websites and host them, as well as create content for your social media.”
Posts: all on a bunch of different communities. All of them short, just one or two sentences.
Short comments scream human to me more than long comments. Like that guy who never posts any comments shorter than three paragraphs all perfectly formatted and punctuated.
Yeah, but the point is the consistency. It’s quite easy to prompt the model to just respond in always in the same way, and one could just say “you are supposed to talk like an average redditor. Keep it positive and short, and only elaborate if asked to.”
By that point you may as well be an LLM. ChatGPT is pretty good at emulating writing styles.
I stand by my opinion. OP’s playing y’all for fools and now we are all arguing pointlessly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_199#c-Dilettante-20241204211400-EEng-20241204232600
Let’s flip this a little bit: if someone offered you a bet that OP is a bot vs not a bot, how much would the odds have to be in order for you to take it?
'Sup.
Yes, I realize this particular comment is somewhat self defeating and probably not a great example. But that’s not the point.
The point is it’s apparently become my mission in life to annoy all the people on the internet who just check out any time they see a string of text that’s longer than 160 characters. I’ve been doing this since the early '90’s and you punks will never stop me.
The user I’m thinking of has a cat themed username. They comment quite a bit, or at least they used to.
that's a very normal bio
I guess I’m a LLM, thanks for letting me know.
username checks out
I guess so, I got to change it to Witty Human to stay under the radar.
Draw me a picture of a full glass of wine. Full to the brim. Practically spilling over.
Sorry, I don’t work on Sundays. I’m a special kind of computer<img alt="" src="https://feddit.org/pictrs/image/cd196b6b-b250-402e-b1f0-9203301383e3.png">
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/bfc73b19-61f1-4e6d-8873-98caed7158a2.png">
Anything else I can help you with?
Draw me a hamburger, just bun, patty, bun. No lettuce, condiments or toppings.
Visible post and comment scores are still going to produce some of this behavior. You may not have a total karma but people will still get dopamine from seeing their posts getting upvotes and be reinforced in doing the same again. So the same mechanisms of social pressure and uniformisation are at play. The worst being when people delete their minority opinion comments because of the downvote pressure.
Down votes mean I am reaching the correct audience for that specific content
Genuinely curious, does that mean that, for you, getting downvoted gives you dopamine/a sense of accomplishment?
Your above comment is in the negative when I’m making this comment. Does that feel good? Again, genuinely curious, hard to put a non-judgemental tone in writing.
I can’t relate to that feeling, upvotes and downvotes to me show how much a community agrees or disagrees with what I’ve said. Either what I said isn’t right for the community I posted it in or maybe just a generally unpopular opinion if I’m getting downvotes. Might make me reflect but usually no big deal, I’m mostly here for the discussions, memes and current events. Outside of trolling I don’t really see how getting downvoted might be seen as a good thing by a poster.
If people down vote but are unable to provide a coherent rebuttal, that means that they are rage down voting.
I guess getting people to rage can feel validating, knowing that I’ve made someone rage quit a game feels satisfying for sure.
I don’t personally feel that way about sites like Lemmy/Reddit/Social-media in general where things are more discussion and social-interaction based though. I guess for my kind of discourse goals, if I’ve made someone angry rather than laugh or understand my perspective, I’ve done a bad job.
Not necessarily, I usually downvote comments where there are enough rebuttal replies but I still disagree heavily with what’s being said. I am able to provide the Nth coherent rebuttal but I’m just either lazy or I don’t want to contribute to the spam.
I just want the absolute value of my comment’s karma to be high. That means it has been read at least that many times.
Oh, so if it’s going to be down voted anyway, then a lot of down votes feels good? Guess that’s more validating than a middling response
Maybe. They might also mean you’re an idiot.
Slashdot used to have a multidimensional voting system that would allow you to up or down vote something based on whether it was funny/insightful/correct, etc (can’t remember the dimension). I wish we had something like that. Sometimes it would be useful to mark a comment as “funny, but also wrong”
I turn my phone sideways and then my upvote is in a different dimension.
No, it was only up or down, but you could also choose to add a descriptor, funny, insightful, informative, flamebait, troll, and a few others: slashdot.org/faq#meta3
Right, thanks. Still a super useful system, IMO, though I’m sure better versions are possible.
I had a discussion about using the Slashdot style voting rather than the Reddit style.
It not only has the additional tag, it has the max “upvote” display limit of 5, and the display code will expand and promote the best rated comments, while hiding the garbage.
I think comments on most forums would benefit from there being no ‘big upvote’ number to chase, as well as making the highest rated comments in a thread of say, 200, more obvious.
If I am wrong sombody will generally probide a rebuttal tho but deff happens
Welcome: Quarkvotes
Up, down, charm, strange, top, bottom
Up/down = Usefulness or relation to topic
Charm/strange = Agree/accurate or not
Top/bottom = Love/Hate
I vote you up-charm-top, btw
Not a bad set! I would add something related to “funny”.
Also, separating agree (opinion) from accurate (factual) would be nice. But I guess you gotta keep it somewhat simple.
You can turn vote counts off if you want to.
Yeah but I won’t because I like dopamine.
heres 1 (one) dopamine unit for you then
Meh, I’ll leave down voted posts. It’s the mods around here who don’t seem to want to leave them up.
There are upvotes and downvotes and they do have some use gauging that content IMO
That being said, without the corporate structure and profit motive to produce a monetizing algo that encourages others to game it to further their own monetizing goals…it’s SIGNIFICANTLY better
Up/Down votes aren’t inherently bad, Reddit and other corporate platforms corrupt it with their profit chasing
Well, I kind of disagree with the up/down votes being inherently bad, as they more front-load early posting rather than accurate posting. Meaning early engagement is likely to have higher upvotes rather than engagement which is factual and well thought out. This incentivizes much more emotional and meme posting.
I’ve seen it happen time and time again on Reddit and even here: someone makes post, bunch of people react only to the headline, or spread misinformation, and by the time nuanced posts and thought out posts are made, engagement has plummeted and people have moved on to the next thing.
I don’t get the karma hangup thing. Like… Lemmy does have Karma, but we just don’t culturally make it a priority.
The fact that it’s not designed to notify you every time you get 5 upvotes changes the game. Also low Karma accounts can post in Lemmy as opposed to Reddit.
But should they?
One of the things I miss about reddit (and slashdot before that) was that if you got downvoted/downmodded a lot in a short amount of time, it would tell you to slow down (, cowboy). It helped to limit the damage when someone would go on a troll spree before they got banned.
Some subreddits did implement a “you must have x karma to post” rule, or account age, which I wasn’t always a fan of, especially if it was karma within a certain subreddit. I understand the logic, that it was intended to make people read the community before posting, but I’m not sure if it hit the mark. But it did limit brand-new spam accounts, which are already here on lemmy.
I believe it’s an unhealthy habit, silencing unpopular people. Some of us low profile oddballs like to share our thoughts too
That’s true, but it’s gotta be balanced by limiting the fallout of extreme cases on other users
I do like the slow down, cowboy think and I’m pretty sure reddit had that extremely early on as well
Some communities use a “santabot” to auto-ban accounts with more downvotes than upvotes. I’ve never seen it happen to someone who didn’t deserve it.
Unpopular opinions deserve to be silenced? Terrible idea. We already have way too much group think.
Hey, I’ve got unpopular opinions. No, it’s usually someone who is trolling.
It’s far from perfect but of the people I’ve seen, they are usually so bad that they are damaging dialogue, not fostering it.
Usually it’s eventually reversed if they are not a troll. People here are pretty decent and upvote most things.
A lot of people can’t tell the difference and just assume that someone with an unpopular opinion must be trolling.
That was a horrible system. If you didn’t get positive karma on your very first post, your account was ruined because you could never dig yourself out.
This may not be an inherently bad thing given that low karma accounts tend to be trolls.
Good moderation eliminates trolls pretty quickly. Admins are incentivized to respond to users’ concerns rather than a profit motive. Some communities do have a minimum account age for certain actions, and some instances require a real email address and IP address to join/participate.
Trolls are bots are rare on Lemmy. They are the norm on reddit.
The traffic on Reddit is massive for highly populated subreddits. And these subreddits that restrict low karma account activities aren’t doing it for any profit motive.
I understand Lemmy isn’t really big enough for this to be a concern here.
If/when it does get big enough, what would be a good solution? It would be possible to do the same as Reddit
The best solution is to do nothing and don’t try to bring reddit’s groupthink enforcement flaws to lemmy.
I’d argue that low karma accounts tend to be new people or lurkers.
By low karma I mean -100 types.
I call that negative karma. Low karma is 0-200. 200 because that is a limit that at least some subs would use to limit new accounts from posting.
I always like forum setups where you had limited posting privileges until you’d had a couple of posts. Usually, they’d have an introduction category where you could post, and then comment on some other users’ posts, to get your post or reputation count high enough to unlock the rest of the board.
Most Lemmy sites are small enough to have a local introduction community or other ‘free’ communities for newbies to dip their toes and acclimate. They’d be good places to centralize posts on how all of this works, too.
Wouldn’t scale to large servers, though.
Exactly - Reddit specifically and intentionally uses dark patterns to reinforce the importance of karma at every turn. The first interaction that someone has with Reddit is usually “you don’t have enough karma to post/comment/vote in this subreddit.” There are secret communities and public awards for high karma earners. There is a frontpage dedicated to rapid karma-earning posts. There is no disincentive for karma farming reposts, and subreddits are actually punished for reducing reposts. Karma is commoditized.
Here the votes still matter, but the algorithm is public and users can and do sort in a variety of ways to discover new and relevant content. There is no single “front-page”
Unfortunately, on reddit - when subreddits restrict new posters or low karma commenters, they’re just trying to mitigate the impact of trolls and bots and people making new accounts. It’s not about being elitist.
Yeah because reddit (and Lemmy) are different to what a lot of people are used to. Users coming from things like tiktok or Facebook need to lurk a bit before posting so they get a feel for the culture.
It is gatekeepy but its nessesary in my opinion. However I can see how the karma restrictions are super jarring for new users since it takes a while to get especially if your comments are always buried.
There used to be a saying on early image boards that have helped me more times than I can remember. “Lurk moar”, it has served me well. Even getting used to office culture. It helps to not make any faux pas that would make it harder to get along.
At some point so much right in the actual social guide to using the internet
The karma restrictions seems at first a good idea but can be bypassed very easily. The bots steal older popular posts or pictures and repost them.
Sure, but it offers at least some protection.
What’s the difference? They shouldn’t be doing it.
They will do it so long as not doing it greatly increases the amount of busywork, spam moderation and troll moderation.
Then they are unfit to be moderators because they are subtracting value from free discussions. I would much rather have to little moderation than lazy heavy handed moderation.
In this case, its automation. It’s also a partial response to Reddits ineffectual moderator system. No-one is gunna spend all day monitoring comments from trolls and spammers on basic communities usually flooded with comments. I can’t see anyone especially truly engaged to do so in (for example, and I have no idea if these communities do this) in r/aww or r/pics or r/jokes or r/videos, which are just pretty basic subreddits that aren’t really hobbyist.
Whereas say, r/AskHistorians or some video game community or a music subgenre community likely will by their hobbyist nature attract more engaged moderators.
wat
Is that a new thing? I’m pretty sure it didn’t do that before I left.
It doesn’t have karma in the sense that there is a publicly displayed total of every post and comment you made so you can point at your profile and be like “look how much karma I have!”
It doesn’t accumulate and display anywhere though, does it?
I think there might still be one or two apps that show a total.
Doesn’t show your total on the Eternity app
I wish that commenting would automatically upvote a post. It's far too late to fix the use of an upvote as approval of subject discussion and not just an agree arrow, but I often...no, I almost always forget to upvote the initial topic even after leaving a few paragraphs. One would hope whatever algorithm is used also considers activity and number of comments in a rating or suggesting it to others.
Yeah, I often just forget to upvote generally. Although this could lead to argumentative posters making troll posts, getting engagement and trending just because people reply to them.
Might also discourage people from feeding the trolls.
There ate multiple algorithms, but I don’t think any of them account for both votes and comments… I might be wrong though.
Tangent: the "scaled* algorithm, which normalises post ranks by the popularity of the community they’re posted to, is excellent. I recommend everyone use it as their default.
One feature I liked about Kbin was that my own comments weren’t upvoted automatically
Kbin didn’t federate downvotes which was pretty funny. No one from it knew when they were being downvoted by lemmy.
Why the past tense? Is Kbin dead?
Sadly yes
Downvoted. Not because I think reddit is better, but because this is clearly a circklejerk post, and what’s more reddit than THAT???
Thanks for letting us know
Downvoted your comment. Because announcing downvotes is very reddit.
I’m downvoting myself, cause idk man
Oh no you don’t. I’m upvoting you, instead.
Oh my sweet summer child,!
Shit, I’m sorry. I had close to 1m before I bailed. It was all quality comment karma though. I just have no life.
I think the only way to really fix this is to make votes a limited asset that accounts have. There are forums where this has worked okay: bodybuilding.com forums has a reputation system where accounts are limited in what they can give to other voters.
As long as “karma” is unlimited it suffers from the same problems whether you count it in aggregate or not. As some other commenters have said, people still seek validation in individual comments. I know because I do too.
Seeking validation apparently is core human trait so I am not sure if it is possible to avoid it at all. Still as you probably know social media corporations keep us hooked to their crack using it and amplifying the base value
Funnily, ironically some Lemmy apps copy Reddit UX (that was designed by psychology experts) and thus make it more addictive than it is on the web app.
Best bet to avoid social candy crack is to use lemmy from terminal if that is possible, or default site
I would imagine if you made karma points limited on the spender side rather than unlimited, then it might make users “try harder” to get validation, thus improving the quality of content on average.
Or it all could be bullshit and fail. Hard to say. You are right though, it’s all manufactured for engagement.
The problem I think is that users do not distribute votes based on “quality” but by how much they like the content. Which is only the same in some people
It’s the same as with democracy, in theory we should elect quality politicians but we elect those we like
But hey this is long clear I guess since the implementation of Reddit decade ago
Can’t say I ever cared about karma. Lemmy reminds me of stripped down original reddit. Almost original. I remember when Reddit didn’t even have thumbnails. Back then, there was a thing called memepool. You didn’t know what you were going to get when you clicked on links on either site. There was a lot of fun unpredictable content and Reddit still meant you read it and we’re vouching for it. It was like this whole world of quality stuff from really smart people. Thumbnails and subreddits ushered in a series of trashings and lead to intense divisiveness reddit never recovered from. . .
Thanks, kind stranger! Here’s an updoot and Reddit Silver!
Reddit become more unusable because of the ads, bots, redditors who promote their onlyfans / business.
No, there’s karma. I’ve had more than a couple guys point out mine is negative.
I think some apps will request all of your comment history and manually calculate karma but it’s not tracked by lemmy
Checks out
<img alt="" src="https://reddthat.com/pictrs/image/bead91fe-a60f-4495-a281-8c9de7de2041.jpeg">
What is this ‘evil’ flair stuff please do tell
Boost for Lemmy lets you tag users. I gave this user the evil tag when they said something evil.
Wooo, that’s super cool. Do I have any tags? Tell me tell me. Make a pink one
Tho these tags are shared yes? Imagine shared community built tags like some yelp reviews of people. Actually that’s a terrible idea so it will probably happen.
Augmented Reality Community Driven People Scoring System.
I don’t talk to anyone lower than 7 or who was marked by users as <opposite political party>
Better yet. Automatically ban anyone with lower than 5
Ugh too much coffee, too many stimulants
Still it sucks so that’s probably the future. you can’t even opt out because even if you don’t have the AR glasses everyone else has.
The only hope for the future is to be a hacker. Achieve a cozy AI-proof job as a security expert and use the skills to enhance your life. If you are able to find new exploits that will always be valuable skill netting cash one white hat way or black hat another and rather hard to replicate for LLMs which excel at repetitive patterns. So whether you are making wannacry 2.0 or blackmailing companies into hiring you I think this is relatively future proof area.
I wonder what you thought was evil. Probably something banal, but something Lemmy hates.
I vaguely recall it being something about refugees or Palestine
That makes sense. I still hold the opinion that illegal immigrants should be deported, and Hamas is awful.
Most people would agree with me, but most on Lemmy would not
For context for the people downvoting this: Lemmy doesn't have karma, but Mbin does and it shows karma for Lemmy accounts too.
<img alt="south park smug" src="https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaWczNnNlZW56bHoxdmczeTE0d2Z4ZGYwNXJjajRvMGZ4NThycGU0NyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3oz8xvjNgbcNxvpC0w/giphy.gif">
Really? I have like 15 meme communities blocked, and there are comparably very few niche communities.
Yeah, lemmy suffers a lot of from this. Too many posts that try to just make the front page, too many popular communities that dominate c/all. I’ve even had a friend quit over this.
I genuinely miss communities about games, linguistics and niche hobbies - they just aren’t as popular as news/politics/general memes and that. I do try to post them as much as i can, but since they’re niche there’s only so much content you can find.
I’d love for the frontpage to have some [optional, ofc] changes that encourage more of this type of content.
Why would anyone be on all? Even with reddit I I quit going to all probably 10 years ago…
And don’t let my Lemmy age fool you, I drop my account every 6 to 8 months. It took my a lot longer to figure that out on reddit.
For me it’s to find new content (i block most news/politics communities since they’re most of c/all) but there’s a lot of attention and eyes to be gained from all.
But most of this, as i said; is buried by the generic popular content.
Well yeah, that’s what ALL is right? The most generic stuff. You can browse communities and subscribe as needed.
If you are going to use all It might help to enable scaled sorting.
It boosts small communities in the sort.
I’ll try, thank you 🙂
urwelcom
Ok…then what do you recommend for a varied random feed of news and posts from various communities?
How do I find new communities to join if not for all?
You just click on communities and browse or search for ones to subscribe to.
Although if you are a smaller instance you may not see as many if others haven’t branched out if I understand correctly.
For games, make sure you are subscribed to:
All are healthy and active, and I’m sure there are more. I suggest cross-posting stuff from a niche community you contribute to, to one of these, to bring traction to the smaller community.
Last one seems not to exist.
Lemmy.world is not federating with beehaw.org
Beehaw is quite toxic and for that reason, lemmy.world is not federated. I expect an angry swarm of people from Beehaw to send me death threats now to prove how untoxic they are.
maybe my definitions of healthy and active are extremely biased, but these communities have several days-old posts with low numbers of comments and limited reply threads. not only that, but there’s lots of news articles about the industry but not much stuff about GAMES, be that random reviews, discussions, or memes.
Well it’s partly my bias too, because when I joined Lemmy about 3 years ago, lemmy.world didn’t exist yet and there were around a couple dozen new posts on All of Lemmy per day at the time.
I’m just really grateful for how much we’ve grown as a site, even if we’re still hardly anywhere close to the scale of modern corporate social media. But imo it doesn’t have to be, I like this.
what do you want to discuss post it, no one has a montery incentive to make this site work for you, if you want it to do you gotta do it yourself, commentings a good step, now make a post about what you want to discuss so theres a more recent post on that community about it
Ah i’m sorry, i should’ve specified; i meant communities for specific games. A lot of these games are too obscure to hvae a community for themselves, sadly :(
Pretty much any game or random hobby I’m on at the moment, I could count on finding a decently populated and active Subreddit. This is what’s missing from Lemmy.
Yeah, but in this day and age we’re going to grow with easy-to-consume content e.g. memes. Once growth hits a critical mass then the niche communities will come.
Blocked? Why? If you don’t want to see them why are you subscribed to them?
I mean if you want niche communities you create them and subscribe to them right?
Browsing the global/all feed is one way to find new communities, and some people just like using it in general rather than defaulting to a subs-only view.
Seems like a not so good way to me, and thats why people are complaining.
You can just look through the communities and sub to good ones.
Maybe it would be helpful to use ALL with scaled sorting. It boosts smaller communities.
I gave up using all on reddit a very long time ago, and Lemmy is basically the same… But at least on Lemmy you have scaled sorting to try and help.
For what it's worth I generally agree with you, and especially think the people who treat /all as their own personal feed are nuts, but nonetheless it's something that some people do 🫠
Everyone has their own preferences about how to use things!
.
Or just…browse all and then block communities you don’t want to see. Most stuff I block is furry shit. Nothing against it, I just don’t want to see it.
I just see them in the Everything feed, and if I don’t block them, they seem to dominate. I’m not actually against them, but I don’t want my feed to be all memes.
With time we’ll get there! The more we slowly contribute to the niche topics, the more we’ll see these communities grow. I’m sure there are a sizable amount of people from Reddit looking for their niches on here to start growing more for them to fully hop over. I’ve got a good chunk of mine on Lemmy now, but still a handful of ones I haven’t found a comparable server for yet. If I understood running a server more I probably would have started a couple of my own for these topics.
Is there anywhere on Lemmy people can request for servers to get started? I think that would be helpful to have since missing topics are some of the barriers of entry for some people.
I mean there are upvotes and downvotes so I don’t know what you mean. But there isn’t a real incentive to have lots of upvotes on here. I’m not even sure why karma farming even is a thing on reddit. Maybe cause you can sell the account to whatever guy wants to buy it?
.
That’s batshit crazy
Not crazy if you want to advertise on the down low. I worked a summer once doing that shit, it’s insidious. Blockers don’t even block someone pretending to like a product.
It’s because Reddit specifically optimizes the site so that upvotes give you the maximum dopamine and keep you hooked on it like a crack. Most corporate social media thrive on keeping their users hooked through cheap tricks.
Lemmy Marxist Leninist Stalinist Maoist dev on the other hand doesn’t care or isn’t even able to do this because he doesn’t have an army of psychology experts to design it that way
So no you don’t get anything out of karma but your brain thinks you do and every aspect of the site is built to maximise this. I hate it
And yet for some reason I spend a lot of time on Lemmy
Yeah… I guess stimulants today were truly stimulating looking by the white hot intensity of my comments lol
ommgg, they are unreadable, so exhausting to even look at
Yes this
…what do you think “karma” is?
Read the edit
Read the title.
Read whatever you want, but read ಠ╭╮ಠ
I read all of it. The title says “no karma”. We have “karma”. Which is why I’m questioning what you think karma is.
<img alt="" src="https://feddit.org/pictrs/image/7ae78df6-e7f0-4426-9923-4c16e93c5104.png">
Ok this is my profile… Where is the karma count? What communities can’t I post in with a low karma?
Just because it’s not appearing on your profile or preventing you from posting doesn’t mean it’s not there.
And I actually agree with Reddit’s approach in that regard.
Lemmy is small enough, that without even seeing a karma total, some users have an unofficial “rapport”, where I’ve seen them around enough to recognize whether they are the type to go against the grain, a perpetual troll, or a usually reasonable person with an unusually spicy take.
Lemmy still relies on upvotes for ranking the feed, so, farming them makes sense, it’s just isolated per each post.
And I believe the issue might get worse as Lemmy grows. The reason Reddit came up with karma and all that is because the more people you have on your platform, the more baddies you have to account for.
For now, Lemmy is small enough for a basic interpersonal reputation to mostly just work, but as it grows, we need something else. Presumably, not karma.
Perhaps a creddit system (for gits and shiggles)
Can you explain what you mean with farming upvotes makes sense? There is no part of the algorithm that takes into account how many upvotes the OP recently got, or is there?
I think they meant on a post-by-post basis. You can’t farm account karma, but you can farm upvotes on individual posts, for ego, I guess…
There is the vibe-check on Lemmy, though. I don’t believe the algorithm takes that into account.
Piefed implements an "attitude" system which tracks up vote ratio and a few other simple metrics mods can use to identify bad actors
Nice! The more I hear about Piefed, the more I am inclined to check it out
“bad actors” simply means “unpopular or politically incorrect opinions”. Fuck that.
There’s multiple sorting types that you can choose for your feed. How do you want your content ordered?
Just value content
Lemming36: Here is a high quality 46 MB photo of a shiny bat poop straight to .world HDD
did you mean: beans ?
Honestly, karma is just for getting started on reddit. Certain subreddits, require your account to exist and have a certain amount of karma to “validate” it. I don’t think people care about getting karma beyond that point.
Just don’t be a woman on Lemmy.
Sure, most people won’t downvote or harass you just for being a woman (a lot will… we didn’t get the best of Reddit at all, and I doubt the new adoptees are any better…) but they will often enough make things difficult even if they aren’t actively causing problems.
But men of Lemmy (aka the vast majority of the user base since they ran off all the womenfolk) don’t care. They see that as quality control or some dumb shit, because THEY aren’t interested in woman things, so nobody should be, or they think their “as a man” comments should be important or some shit… Whatever the post is about. If it doesn’t cater to them, it can fuck right off.
Which is why cis women make up <10% of the Lemmy side of the fediverse. It’s a disaster for women here.
But I wonder how long you’ve been here. Most of the posts of this nature are from very new accounts and they don’t know the problems yet…
Is this really the case? I find this unexpected. Lemmy seems to be friendly to the LGBTQ people, namely trans.
If what you say is true, we should probably address it somehow.
Depends on the instance.
Any examples of this? It sounds terrible and should be addressed.
The downvotes prove your point. This topic needs more discussion, but most of the times when women bring this up, their comments get downvoted to hell. It’s quite a “gotcha” for someone to ask to see “examples” when most of the examples we’ve come across or created will be buried or have since been deleted.
Alternative question - for those that don’t believe this is an issue, when is the last time you came across a post on Lemmy that is specifically for/about women or women’s issues (especially one posted from a woman’s perspective)? Or even better, go ahead and make such a post. Watch how fast the downvotes come.
I expect this comment to be downvoted the same way as the parent comment was, the same way that past posts I’ve made and read about women’s issues have been downvoted on Lemmy. If men want this place to be inclusive for women, they have to do their part to support us - not downvoting our concerns, simply because they don’t experience the same issues, is the absolute bare minimum. Otherwise, why would we keep posting/commenting about our issues when doing so invites a downvote cascade?
I’m not going to say it isn’t a problem, but this was just the other day and while engagement could have been better it didn’t seem to be met with downvotes and pushback.
I just got downvoted for asking for an example of this. I have been using Lemmy quite a bit in the last month (way more than I should) and I have never come across what you’re talking about. I might be wrong, I haven’t seen all the posts created on Lemmy, that is why I’m asking for an example.
If I make the claim that 4chan is full of racist, nazi fucks, that is easy to verify and provide examples of in a few minutes. Similarly, the burden of proof should be on the one making the claim.
No, the downvotes are because nobody was victimizing her here but she went off on a rant and called me horrible things that I don’t deserve to be called. Sexism can go in any direction and I don’t tolerate any of it.
The same amount of time I came across a post that is about men’s issues. A really long time. The vast majority of comments should not be about identity politics, unless it is a feature of the specific community.
I’ve not had a problem here, do you have examples of this? Not saying it does not exist, more curious as I’ve found this space a lot kinder than reddit.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I (as a cis guy) haven’t seen anything againt women. Do you have any examples?
“Which is why cis women make up <10% of the Lemmy side of the fediverse. It’s a disaster for women here.”
I mean I can believe that since it’s based off of Reddit but do you have a source for that?
I know multiple IRL women who don’t share your complaints about Lemmy. Maybe people are shitty to you because you’re shitty to them.
That’s how it is anywhere that doesn’t have any real moderation. There are those actively seek to harass anyone who isn’t right leaning cis hetero white male. Lemmy like every other modern social platform is an open air forum available to the entire 7 billion population of the world. Moderators don’t see 99% of the posts. And 99% of what they do see, they don’t take for than a few seconds to consider. The nefarious abusers are almost always more subtle than moderators give thought to. This allows harassment to run rampant. This is a fundamental issue with social media. As as I’m concerned it’s an intractable problem (brought you by free speech absolutist libertarian bros).
That’s as opposed to the traditional internet boards where posting was orders of magnitude lower volume. Site administrators and moderators cared about fostering a good community. Moderators saw a not insignificant portion of the content posted. Not just reports. Forum members used one pseudonym. No throwaways like the reddit/lemmy paradigm. What you posted was attached to you as a person. Therefore there was consequences to being an asshole. In other words deterrence.
Also I find it kind of amusing how they out themselves for their simpleton world view. I’ve noticed a pattern where they take superficial readings of a post to identify keywords/phrases. Then assign identity to that user. Then engage in harassment based on that.
For example say I posted something that was sympathetic to women. Ergo they assume I am a woman. And they engage the usual framework of belligerent replies appropriate to that assumed identity. I know for certain the key words in the second sentence of this comment already has triggered someone for sure.
Edit: The prior replies are just *chefs kiss*. I can’t tell if they’re being intentional or if they’re just that dumb. I guess that’s part of the fun isn’t it.
Oh my sweet summer child. EVERY new service and SocMed site starts out like this. Fresh, fun, and working properly. Until the masses show up. That’s when it goes to shit.
Yep, it’s just a matter of time till karma system is getting implemented on here too
Why make this assumption? Is there a reason you believe we need that karma system? I genuinely can’t think of any reason, outside of corporate interest to push engagement.
Yep, any sort of karma system is needed to get the masses to join somewhere. To attract the majority of people you need something that keep them interested. Karma on reddit is the same as likes on Facebook or Instagram
Horrible take. I absolutely do not give a fuck about arbitrary internet points and would like to see an open discussion without a majority bias downvoting someone into oblivion just because they disagree. For example, your comment will not be hidden just because your comment is being downvoted.
The only thing bringing profile karma to Lemmy will do is attract botters to inflate their credibility. Those could also be used to downvote others so the botter’s comments and posts are pushed to the top.
Again, horrible idea.
Where can I see my total number of likes on Facebook?
On Reddit, I found that blocking people by account age and link karma noticeably improved the site. edit: For example, blocking 1 year old accounts with more than 100k link karma. /edit Mostly helped me filter out karma farmers from my feed that did nothing but repost memes or low effort shitposts.
Of course, not having total karma publicly tracked might make reposting a nonissue.
You have nine up votes for this comment.
Can see it on boost for Lemmy.
Of course you can see the comment’s individual karma. But, if you got my profile or yours, there is not accumulated karma.
Ah, i see now what you’re saying now. I’m sorry for being thick.
It already exists, it’s just not shown.
Eternal december.
I feel like white-list federation can fix it.
You could do that if you wanted, but if we had these moderation things will probably be fine. It’s also Eternal September
Damn. My brain is a bit slow today.
But can moderation tools really fix the problem of low quality content?
“Karma” is just a counter of a user’s recieved votes. It still exists on lemmy, most clients just choose to not display it.
Also where is this “value content” supposed to be?
Our value comes from our superior bean-based posting economy.
fun fact: i’m allergic to beans (i think), but i still like it here
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/b38a3abd-4b25-450b-b532-96c4279c49c7.png">
That’s right! I said good shit in tech posts that was worth upvoting so others can see. Then there was an bad comment I wrote in patientgaming that deserved the downvotes and not worth reading.
Isn’t Karma essentially just the delta between upvotes and downvotes you get with some sort of weighting thrown in?
Because you can very much get that delta on here, it just isn’t visible in the default Lemmy interface. If you look at your account through an Mbin frontend for example you can see the “Reputation points” value in the sidebar: fedia.io/u/@wittycomputer@feddit.org
I know there are upvotes and downvotes, but the problem with Reddit is you can’t post in most communities if your karma or reputation is bad. This is a big problem because herd mentality prevails there and if ypu have unpopular opinions you’re basically censored.
Lemmy isn’t designed to milk ypur dopamine with notifications every 10 upvotes, so you focus more on posting valuable cont instead of farming for approval and upvotes.
idk about you but psychologically i never chceckef my ksrma scote but still pay some attention to how an individual comment/submission is perceived. cuz i took the time to write it and it’s cool if people like/understand it and it’s “important” if they dont (at least important to my rat brains)
as a departure from this mentality, i will not edit the typos
I liked my karma back on my old reddit account (before being banned from supporting Luigi), but that is because I had the account for 12 years and invested too much time into it.
So far I’m enjoying the laid back nature of lemmy. Hopefully there will be more engagement, maybe some UI updates too. But overall I’m liking the switch. The conversations and posts feel more real.
I got banned for my support of Luigi as well. 15 year account over there. Sometimes you gotta say goodbye to a friend.
I do this. I don’t pay it too much mind, but it’s helpful for seeing which posts or comments gain more traction.
The lack of karma is definitely a plus. Zionist trolls can downvote all they want, no one cares. In fact, there isn’t much of an incentive for any to invest in “downvote farms”.
We have plenty of astroturfing bots & powermods here. Once karma becomes a worthwhile metric for some to filter by, it’ll be abused & manipulated here, too.
For all the problems with karma it did allow for effective filtering. With most accounts on Lemmy being harder to create with captcha and approval it might not be needed
Yeah i just hope it stays that way and users stay genuine. A while ago i noticed some users who were really stubborn about some weird agenda. Not sure if bot or just stupid human.
Also, nicole (the fediverse chick) is turning into a problem.
I disagree.
All bots and astroturfers had no problem getting 500 karma or whatever with one /r/funny repost. Which just meant new users can’t contribute and every subreddit is left with power users and trolls.
This would be even easier to game on Lemmy as it’s much more open and federated so getting 500 karma by a bot would be super easy.
The only reliable way to moderate is manual review with technical fingerprint. I work in online fraud detection.
Bots it was pretty poor against. But it was amazing for random trolls who manually created accounts. Did cause disruption for newer uses though you just manually approve a few comments until they get over the karma threshold. I just wish there was a one click “ignore this filter for this account”
Give it another year or two and we’ll have some website that tallies the karma of lemmy users. Clout is an insidious disease that grows like a social cancer.
It has already happened with this piece of cancer.
join.piefed.social/…/piefed-features-for-growing-…
Find people who have low karma
When someone is consistently getting downvoted it’s likely they are a problem. PieFed provides a list of accounts with low karma, sorted by lowest first. Clicking on their user name takes you to their profile which shows all their posts and comments in one place. Every profile has “Ban” and “Ban + Purge” buttons that have instance-wide effects and are only visible to admins.
Wow. I definitely do not love that.
Well guess I’m not using piefed. Still pissed about getting automatically temp muted on reddit years ago just for saying I didn’t like skyrim that much.
oh ok so we’re just allowing straight hate speech now cool
Waking up to this message made me scared of what sleepy me said last night lmao
I did count my likes from some top liked comments or posts of mine before. It kinda feels the same as karma, to me.
I’d say that people always find some way to get addicted to something, in whatever.
I have a question though:
On Reddit the same post won’t usually show up twice in my feed (unless it’s a repost). So once you’ve seen it, Reddit notices that and kind of marks it as seen I guess.
Using Lemmy however I happen to see the same posts over and over again for days. Is there any way to fix this?
I would like some tips as well. Currently i’m using voyager, which has a ‚hide read‘ function (for posts you’ve opened) and other than that I swipe hide posts that i’ve „seen“ manually.
Jerboa has an option to mark posts as read automatically (when scrolling over it)
It’s one of two things
Your app doesn’t hide things that are marked as read. This is typically a setting you can choose.
The same content is being posted to multiple communities or multiple instances (if you are watching global feed). This is not something that can be fixed I think.
I have the same issue
Sometimes it’s the multiple posting, sometimes it’s just old posts that are still active and getting comments. Like 2 day old posts. Since they get so many comments still it’s likely that lots of other people are seeing them too
I’ve heard certain clients or servers are able to spot crossposts and reposts, and mark them as crossposts/reposts. I definitely know that the app I use does not.
I think it’s doable. It’d likely require hashing posts so that Lemmy apps can keep track of those hashes.
I’ve never had that experience with reddit. I see so much again
In addition to what’s been said, I prefer to sort by top 6 hours in everything, and I get plenty of good fresh content all the time that way.
We have that here too. FlyingSquid comes to mind.
How, exactly? Decentralization aside, lemmy is a reddit clone, but on a smaller scale. The same human psychology that drives reddit also drives lemmy. I think your assessment is more applicable to mastodon because there you really have to figure out how to fill your feed with content.
I put an edit since many had the same rebuttal.
Not really, because votes are only counted on a “by content” basis in any way that I’m aware of that is used
Well, and also because I can express my hope that a piano fall on Spez’s head.
And we’re allowed to say Nazi’s are bad
You just get the occasional weirdo from a weirdo instance arguing otherwise
yeah, and you can luckily just block their instance
It’s comparing lemmy to Reddit, not to the twitter zombie
Sadly Reddit has been toeing the line and has been banning any accounts for “threatening violence” for any support of Luigi no matter how peaceful or non-violent or ANY criticism of Elon The Musky Husky
Heck even before my account was banned I was warned for “advocating violence” just for saying “It’s understandable to wanna punch Nazis”
You can’t ask a social network to support ideas that involve violence and murders. I know Luigi is a hero for many but it was an illegal action. You can think any monarchy is anacronyst nowadays, but you can’t go and shoot any of those useless humans that think they can be called king or queen like we were living in mediaeval times
And remember that any insurance system is not that different from a national system, you can convert one into the other any time. The problem is with shitty brains which can go and spread their shitty ideas either here or there. Since national systems can be so corrupted, it’s ok to have a private way to clean them up from time to time.
It’s not that I want Reddit to support violence, it’s that I want Reddit to support free speech
Let me suggest you don’t become too attached to a mainstream digital tool
Also, smaller servers means that it’s easier to spot criminal communities and boot their asses. Also individual servers can be cracked down on for hosting evil content, without all of Lemmy being destroyed.
Lemmy still has comment karma. Mine’s at 1500.
that’s number of comments, not total points.
Impossible. I don’t comment that much
idk what to tell you, but that is what that number means. Here is mine, you can see it shows a 1 as ive only ever made 1 post, and not a 3 for the number of points on my only post. Also im not sure this applies to other lemmy instances, might just be a lemm.ee thing.
<img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/4297852d-e11e-4720-88c1-d70f6b29d057.png">
You guys are both wrong. It’s the number times in life that you’ve farted and lied about it.
Nah it can’t be that, that numbers way too low to be that.
Quality content? You mean the exact same stuff that’s on Reddit, often copied directly from Reddit?
800,000 “Trump bad! Look at this latest bad thing Elong did!” posts a day is not quality content
Be the change you want to see.
No. We mean all the stuff that Lemmy gets that Reddit either doesn’t get at all or gets a day later than Lemmy.
This bad thing that Trump did looks like very worthwhile content.
lemmy.world/post/26990437
I just hope that Lemmy stays nice. I don’t want it to reach 100 million+ users and be overwhelmed with RAGEBAIT and scams.
Ragebait here is saying you like Windows for its open design.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/49887314-38b2-4ebd-9fd7-46346c316516.png">
It will get corrupted, but we’ll find the right crowd then, this shit always happens.
Same here, I like lemmy too, I just wish more people would use it
Instances will rise and fall, but we can always just crack open a cold one with each other and open a new instance.
No more switching services… finally!
Bots are already the ones posting most of the articles here. Disguised #ads are also on Lemmy and will become a problem if ever Lemmy grows substantially (which I don’t believe will ever happen).
Then why are there so many beans and jeans on my front page?
Literally right there in the title.
There can be many reasons reddit sucks, but I’d argue its mostly because Spez is a mega douche and Reddit was captured by mods who had agendas and just silenced anyone who disagreed. Or they were paid to do it.
I just wanted to let everyone know there is an option in your settings so you don’t see upvotes or downvotes.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/42e15612-fea5-4a3b-985d-d971bc22d151.jpeg">
None of these imaginary points fucking matter.
So why don’t you do yourself a favor and uncheck these boxes and not give a fuck what others think about your comment.
I know I have.
(Lemmy is rad as fuck)
I upvoted you for what it’s worth. More worthless karma for you