Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy
from TheSaltyPenguin@piefed.social to fediverse@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 01:14
https://piefed.social/post/888626

Recently joined and started a community for people who want to move away from Lemmy and want to see Lemmy loosen its stranglehold on the threadiverse, if that seems like something interesting to you consider checking out !cancel_lemmy@piefed.social

#canceling #fediverse #lemmy #lemmy alternatives #piefed

threaded - newest

mike_wooskey@lemmy.thewooskeys.com on 10 Jun 01:19 next collapse

Did…did you start a lemmy community for people to talk about not talking on lemmy…on lemmy?

TheSaltyPenguin@piefed.social on 10 Jun 01:21 next collapse

No... I started a Piefed community to discuss Lemmy alternatives and problems with Lemmy, on Piefed, the superior platform.

Alabaster_Mango@lemmy.ca on 10 Jun 01:25 collapse

It appears to be a Piefed community. You can see it on Lemmy through the magic of federation though.

Resplendent606@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 01:21 next collapse

I have not been on the Fediverse for a long time so please forgive my ignorance. Why would someone dislike or move away from Lemmy? I thought the point of Lemmy was to get away from Reddit.

TheSaltyPenguin@piefed.social on 10 Jun 01:26 next collapse

Because Lemmy's Devs have extremely problematic positions and Lemmy as a software is severely lacking in features which other platforms like Piefed have. Lemmy is just a poor experience, but also Lemmy fosters dependency due to it's widespread use, meaning it's harder for people and servers to branch out into other platforms.

Alabaster_Mango@lemmy.ca on 10 Jun 01:29 next collapse

People can always find problems if they look hard enough, lol. There are probably some legitimate complaints about Lemmy, but nothing is perfect. I find their messaging weird though. Like, you can be pro Piefed without having to be anti Lemmy. Seems needlessly combative to me.

Eldritch@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 01:47 collapse

The problems with the Lemmy developers though is plain on the face of it. Problematic political and social positions. And then demanding that donations must go towards furthering those problematic political and social positions. Because they think they found this one weird trick that nobody can argue with. Their Flagship server is the political server. It’s not lemmy.org after all.

Not to mention that the admins of the server moderate more than most the moderators on the server. There is no free speech. It doesn’t matter how moderate or respectful you are. If you go against the narrative you will be banned.

Development wise they are also vanguard minded. Does the userbase want features the devs aren’t working on? That’s too bad. The devs are going to work on what they want to work on. Whether or not that’s a good thing. Which can sometimes it can be. It also has led to a number of people reluctant to contribute. The childish cliquesh behavior.

You’re not always going to agree with the politics and views of the people who write the software you use. And that is okay. But when they mix the two it’s not wrong to have issues with that.

Alabaster_Mango@lemmy.ca on 10 Jun 02:04 next collapse

I keep forgetting about the dev issues, lol. Deffo legitimate problems one might have with a software for sure. I don’t run into that a lot over here on Lemmy.ca though, which is nice.

I stand by my assessment though. It’s still weird to me to promote one thing by shooting down another. Feels too much like politics in North America to me. They could have made a “Support Piefed” community instead.

Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 04:03 collapse

I agree, this whole idea of canceling Lemmy is weird and just feels reactionary. Also Piefed running on Python doesn’t seem like something that can scale well nor something that can be perpetually worked on for the long haul without running into issues with new python releases and compatibility with them.

remotelove@lemmy.ca on 10 Jun 05:34 collapse

I think you nailed it. For me personally, if I move to PieFed, it’s not because I want to “hurt” the devs, it’s because I really don’t want to be part of what they stand for.

Eldritch@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 06:05 collapse

That and it speaks to a lack of maturity and professionalism which doesn’t inspire confidence in the project.

There’s no need to hurt the devs for sure though. They do that well enough on their own.

originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com on 10 Jun 01:32 next collapse

theres only a few real reasons... lemmy does not have a lot of 'microblog' features (50% of the fediverse)... you cant, for example, follow mastodon accounts or have them follow you.

other platforms also add missing lemmy features over the same data. mbin has the equivilent of reddits karma in the form of 'reputation'

Quokka@quokk.au on 10 Jun 01:32 next collapse

To not support genocide denying, transphobic, authoritarian developers.

Devs are more active and adding features users/mods need.

We're still all on the same Fediverse able to communicate, we're just using more 'ethical' software.

rumimevlevi@lemmings.world on 10 Jun 01:40 next collapse

Since both platform communicating with each other genocide deniers would also be shown on piefed

Quokka@quokk.au on 10 Jun 01:47 collapse

The Lemmy devs are the genocide deniers.

rumimevlevi@lemmings.world on 10 Jun 01:50 collapse

Many users are also genocide deniers

Resplendent606@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 02:41 collapse

Sounds like as good of a reason if any to jump ship. Thank you.

viking@infosec.pub on 10 Jun 02:01 collapse

The developers of Lemmy also run lemmygrad.ml and lemmy.ml, the former being a hardcore communist anti-everything delusional conspiracy crapshoot of a platform, the latter a tiny bit more relaxed, but moderated/administered by a bunch of dicks that are essentially also tankies (= hardcore leftists) and Russia fans/apologists.

They (the devs) recently asked for funding to support their work, and in doing so, disclosed that part of the funding would be used to run those two instances, thus giving users no alternative to support without cross-financing extremism.

Piefed is developed independently and has none of those links to moronic ideologies.

Piefed as a platform uses the same underlying protocol as lemmy, mastodon, etc. (Activity Hub), so users can seamlessly interact with one another.

Resplendent606@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 02:40 collapse

Thank you for the information. I want nothing to do with Russian apologists. Slava Ukraini

Quokka@quokk.au on 10 Jun 01:33 next collapse

I just moved my instance over to PieFed on the weekend.

If anyone is looking for a smaller PieFed instance away from the bigger players, we'd love to have you here at quokk.au.

scytale@lemmy.zip on 10 Jun 02:06 next collapse

Do you know where I can see a list of piefed instances?

Quokka@quokk.au on 10 Jun 02:33 collapse

Not that you would want to look any where else of course, but...

https://fedidb.com/servers

filter by software.

Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu on 10 Jun 05:38 collapse

Interested, how do I move an instance from Lemmy to piefed?

Quokka@quokk.au on 10 Jun 05:45 collapse

At the moment, you basically have to restart it all with a fresh install of PieFed on your server.

They are working on features options to transfer over and copy the content etc, but that may be many months away still.

Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu on 10 Jun 06:04 collapse

So I will stick on Lemmy for the time being. After all I don’t care for down votes, I think votes in general should not be private, because this is like a public plaza what you say is public, and attaching a reputation because of down votes is dangerously bullying and a slippery slope, so piefed doesn’t actually feel like my pie at the moment.

Still maybe I will try a fresh installation just to check it out.

lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com on 10 Jun 02:16 next collapse

Features

Nice things about PieFed:

  • Written in a common programming language that many developers understand and which has a bright future ahead of it. Python, of course! This will enable more contributions from a wider range of people than if it was made with Erlang, Ruby, Rust or PHP, for example.
  • Constructed in a simple and straightforward manner that new contributors can come to grips with quickly. No fancy algorithms, special design patterns, fragile build process, or front-end framework. Just Flask with sprinklings of vanilla JS and htmx.
  • Keep third party dependencies to an absolute minimum, to make server administration easier. Python + database (PostgreSQL) and you’re good to go! Redis optional.
  • Consume few resources, to make it cheap to run. Many examples of federated software are bloated Rube Goldberg machines that require hefty servers and serious server administration skills, making money a constant problem. PieFed instances will be small and nimble.
  • Emphasise trust, safety and happiness, drawing inspiration from the Mastodon Covenant.
  • Built to last using tried and true technology that will still work decades from now.

Differences between Lemmy and PieFed

  • Comments with -10 score are collapsed by default.
  • Communities are organized into topics. See piefed.social/topics.
  • Image-heavy communities can have a tiled/masonry view, like piefed.social/c/pics@lemmy.world
  • People who get downvoted a lot end up with a ‘low reputation’ indicator next to their name. You’ll know it when you see it.
  • Hide all posts based on keyword filters.
  • Keyboard shortcuts.
  • Upvotes in meme communities do not add to reputation.
  • Better UI design (somewhat subjective!)
  • Improved hotness ranking algorithm (subjective)
  • Voting is private.
  • See also features for healthy communities.
  • Each community has it’s own wiki.

Mastodon Covenant & “safe spaces” are overmoderated trash. Features for healthy communities consist of Reddity moderation tactics.

Heavy handed moderation is the main reason Reddit disgusts me, so no thanks, & fuck that shit.

[deleted] on 10 Jun 02:45 next collapse

.

Resplendent606@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 02:45 next collapse

The comparison you quoted sounds great and it sold me. I made an account at piefed.social

edited because I just saw it was a quote and originally did not understand the context

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 10 Jun 03:22 next collapse

People who get downvoted a lot end up with a ‘low reputation’ indicator next to their name. You’ll know it when you see it.

Software enforced echo chambers, as if it wasn’t bad enough.

Everything else looks so good about piefed, sad to see a deal breaker like that.

Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 04:13 next collapse

So what you’re saying is that they have a Social Credit Karma system like Reddit does? I already hate it.

  • Upvotes in meme communities do not add to reputation.

Oh a really strict social credit system. Yeah fuck piefed for sure. It’s already bad enough that people maliciously downvote comments on lemmy with alts, giving power to their votes will just make that shit worse.

As much as people give the Lemmy Devs shit they work hard to prevent this from happening on Lemmy, they removed the score API so people couldn’t use Karma bots like Reddit does, they have a publicly exposed modlog so mod actions can be called out and critiqued (piefed has no modlog as far as I can tell). They may have their problems but Lemmy is a far better platform in terms of freedom and open-ness. Piefed is the real Reddit 2.0 complete with it’s own social credit system, designed to make people with less popular opinions (or people at the mercy of downvote brigading) be ostracized.

Quokka@quokk.au on 10 Jun 05:55 collapse

Those are all optional choices for instances.

So what you're saying is that they have a Social Credit Karma system like Reddit does? I already hate it.

Not that I'm aware of, members can see what percentage others vote (i.e. do you vote 100% downvotes?) but that's about it. Mods and admins can see a reputation metric, but that's not forward facing to the public and simply a way for bad faith actors to be flagged.

Upvotes in meme communities do not add to reputation.

You can set it on a per instance or community scale as to if votes count, if you only accept votes from your instance, etc. It's actually a really handy option to have, maybe you want a community for only local members to vote on policy etc, well now you can filter it so only they can vote in here.

(piefed has no modlog as far as I can tell)

Admins can turn it on/off, I've turned it on for my instance.
https://quokk.au/modlog

Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 06:10 collapse

Admins can turn it on/off, I’ve turned it on for my instance. quokk.au/modlog

That’s still not really much better. It should be on by default, the whole reason there’s a modlog is for liability. Hiding the modlog isn’t doing anyone any favors, don’t try to tell me that there’s merit to that. Obfuscation of mod actions is hiding them from accountability.

So what you’re saying is that they have a Social Credit Karma system like Reddit does? I already hate it.

Not that I’m aware of, members can see what percentage others vote (i.e. do you vote 100% downvotes?) but that’s about it. Mods and admins can see a reputation metric, but that’s not forward facing to the public and simply a way for bad faith actors to be flagged.

Piefed puts weight on votes, the software punishes for being downvoted a lot. Therefore this is in a sense a social credit system. And it’s made worse by the fact that you can exclude upvotes from counting but downvotes still count in there, so you can make it very difficult to earn social credit reputation but easy to lose it. That’s not acceptable to me, that’s worse than the environment on Reddit. This isn’t a good thing.

zonnewin@feddit.nl on 10 Jun 06:46 collapse

Better UI design

Not from what I’ve seen.

I don’t have a problem with Lemmy as software. I do wish the devs weren’t tankies, but we don’t have to engage with them.

underline960@sh.itjust.works on 10 Jun 02:19 next collapse

You can sell me on Piefed without trying to cancel Lemmy out of nowhere.

How does it compare to mbin as a Lemmy alternative?

cyborganism@piefed.ca on 10 Jun 03:10 next collapse

Why cancel lemmy? it ain't perfect, but it's not a bad platform.

Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 04:21 next collapse

Some people for some reason want to cancel or boycott lemmy as a software because they think it’ll hurt the Devs, which is stupid because this is open source software. Not only do the Devs get nothing from people using it without donating but they can’t stop people from using it either, and since it’s opensource, they can’t stop people from modding/forking it either. This whole movement to cancel Lemmy is just reactionary garbage.

cyborganism@piefed.ca on 10 Jun 04:38 collapse

Reactionary to what?

Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 04:49 collapse

It is reactionary to want to cancel an open source project or codebase based on grievances with a particular person or their opinions.

Ledericas@lemm.ee on 10 Jun 06:01 collapse

i just say feel free to block the triad of tankies instances, i imagine the complaints are come from there.

Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 04:00 next collapse

I’ve always thought it was really weird and really dumb sentiment to want to cancel Lemmy, as an Open source software. It’s like people think they need to endorse the developers’ views to use Lemmy, or pay them money to use the software. But like that’s really dumb. Lemmy is free and opensource software, the developers have no say in who uses it, it’s also opensource meaning anyone can fork it. So this position just seems weird and reactionary.

One thing that really makes me reluctant about the future of piefed is the fact that it runs on Python. Great for tinkering but it likely won’t scale well, and Python is famous for breaking backwards compatibility. So expect this project to be hosed when Python 4 or 5 comes out and breaks compatibility or syntax with the previous version. I saw this happen with Kodi and other platforms with Python Based plugins, and it’ll most definitely happen again, not to say it can’t happen with something like Rust or Go, but these compiled languages are designed for big projects, python is just one-off scripts, so the ones maintaining languages like Rust, Go, C++ work a bit harder to keep them as functionally compatible as possible so big projects aren’t crippled and trashed by an update.

Anyway that’s my opinion on this whole thing, I don’t believe Piefed is the future, and I do not think Instance Admins should jump at the chance to abandon Lemmy. Maybe for sublinks if it ever comes out, but not for piefed.

db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 10 Jun 06:19 collapse

Mate,you have a 20 year old perception of python. “good for tinkering”, Cheezus…

Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 06:40 collapse

Are you denying the problem of Backwards compatibility with python versions? It was and still is a big problem today. I’m still seeing the affects of that though many communities. I don’t really think it’s only good for tinkering but I know its developers clearly do, otherwise they wouldn’t have subjected us to the transition from python 2.7 to python 3 and the fallout that followed, and people wouldn’t have been so eager to comply with them dropping python 2.7 support in all their python integrated envionments before you could say bitrot.

Yeah somehow that doesn’t give me much confidence for the future.

bonjour@mander.xyz on 10 Jun 05:13 next collapse

Are you ashamed of your post history or why did you create a new account for this noble cause?

NotProLemmy@lemmy.ml on 10 Jun 05:50 next collapse

Get my downvote and out

Tealk@rollenspiel.forum on 10 Jun 06:49 collapse

And pixelfed is your alternative? That’s not even close to the same usecase.