NSFW on Lemmy
from kingofras@lemmy.world to fediverse@lemmy.world on 06 Aug 06:11
https://lemmy.world/post/34027159
from kingofras@lemmy.world to fediverse@lemmy.world on 06 Aug 06:11
https://lemmy.world/post/34027159
Tldr lower. So there’s (yet again) another flurry of communities that are all crossposting each other’s content with this hentai stuff.
Aside from a lot of this being made with AI, it is in essence soft porn and I don’t want it in /all.
I usually write a comment under such posts saying
Set your comm to NSFW pls
Rarely the mod write “Done” and that’s it. Often it is downvoted, and now it’s also just removed by mod for (I wouldn’t know the reason as it’s on a different instance to mine)
TLDR; I don’t want my all feed to be a soft porn feed, is there anyway of not having these hentai soft porn communities in all, apart from individually blocking them (which doesn’t really work, as they keep making more communities).
threaded - newest
It’s very much manageable. You could also try blocking certain instances or users.
Other than that, though titties.
I’ll block them individually, but I would love for there to be a tagging or classification system. Perhaps even a ‘Snowflake NSFW’ setting that allows people to filter out anything suggestive. I understand those hentai communities don’t want to be penalised by having an outRight NSFW tag on them either.
Have you considered using a client with word filtering?
What are these new communities btw?
I maintain the list available here, and I’ve only needed to add half a dozen new communities in the last year.
You’re welcome to use it for blocking.
I will not be marking any of my communities nsfw, only content within them which warrants it.
Thanks that’s awesome.
Yeah. I blocked main porn instances and then other communities as and when they showed up on the feed.
I blocked ani.social just because so much anime and im not into that
I blocked ani.social because 90% of anime porn is of children and im not into that
I haven’t noticed that so I probably blocked them long ago. You have to do some maintenance on the feed but these things do not pop up constantly.
“All” means all. I suggest not using “all” but subscribing to things you actually want to see.
Not always. For instance if you have NSFW filtered, in which case "all" means "most".
All is still all, but you curated it to your liking (like OP should do)
This is a recurring response, so forgive me for hijacking your comment to write this again.
/all is where we make our first impression to the world. For a lot of people /all is where (on a still growing platform) people go to discover. I don’t think having an additional “soft NSFW” filter would be a bad thing.
There’s a reason most clients have an NSFW filter in their settings.
Go to your Settings, uncheck the “Show NSFW content” box, click Save.
?
How does this… Did you…
i don’t see nsfw in /all cause you can just turn off NSFW content in settings, dude.
easy as pie. your “soft NSFW” filter is baked in.
Thanks for duding me
You have not read or don’t understand the OP. This is about communities like my example in the OP, which many would not consider NSFW, but is on the touchy side of a bunch of other people. The communities don’t want the NSFW tag, but the users who want the ability to filter out the soft NSFW stuff.
There is a soft tag built into the post itself: the title. It says “Ikkitousen.” If you know what Ikkitousen is, you know it’s an ecchi anime. If you don’t know what Ikkitousen is, you have to decide for yourself if the post is worth opening blind. On an anime community it should come as no surprise that people would post characters from ecchi (and not necessarily hard-defined NSFW) shows.
Though I don’t disagree with your suggestion for having more user control, the root of this is entirely a personal problem that others shouldn’t be expected to accommodate for you. Go into your display settings and turn off thumbnails and be self-policing in what links you click on.
“but is on the touchy side of a bunch of other people.”
i get that you’re trying to make a point about what content should or shouldn’t be tagged as nsfw, but at some point you have to accept that this is the internet.
no place is ever going to cater to anyone’s exact standards of what is and isn’t “appropriate”. and while there are communities that don’t want to conform to using nsfw tags, I have an “/all” that is completely devoid of any nsfw content. which is what you have specifically mentioned in your other comments in this thread.
the responsibility is on you to curate your own feed to your own specifications. and its not even a difficult process. it just takes a bit of time.
I mean...that doesn't really seem that bad? Also, asking for the whole community to be nsfw is a wild overreaction looking at the other pictures in the community.
If you browse the all feed, expect to see some things you don't like/enjoy. It's a fire hose of content by design. Learn to curate your subscribed feed and stick to it. Frankly, lemmy doesn't have great filters/blocks to do what you want, and expecting the whole rest of the internet to abide by such strict standards of nsfw isn't going to happen.
PieFed has a "Hide posts in communities with these words in their name" filter for exactly this scenario.
That function doesn't seem to function properly btw. I have tried with "meme" and "politics" and communities with those words in them still keep popping into my feed on PieFed.
Fixed now!
Go to https://piefed.social/user/settings/filters and save the form to flush a cache and then the fix will kick in.
Impressive
weeell, maybe more impressive if I'd tested it better weeks ago, but I'll take the W
😄
Amazing! I did not expect that outcome from my comment
I can’t believe y’all 🤣
This is clearly a mostly non offensive example.
Would you like me to head into my feed and find some furry porn not marked nsfw? Just send me your work address. 🙄
The subscription tab exists for this very reason. Stop being a selfish prick and trying to curate /ALL
You’re somewhat correct of course but the NSFW tag exists for a reason. If there is one entire category of /all you can just filter out due to lack of interest, it should be stuff like that. Maybe at some point we’ll also get an ‘AI’ tag.
The pro of being able to ‘safely’, for lack of a better term, browse /all is being able to discover stuff that you are not subscribed to, stuff you might not find otherwise.
I’m on an instance that blocks nsfw instances. Because I don’t want porn in my feed.
I DO want the anime girls though.
Are you suggesting I should deal with a feed full porn in order to get that?
So you’re good with everything except the nipple? I mean, I’m not even particularly hardline about this topic, that just seems like a really really niche use case that you want catered to
I’m good with nipples. And porn for that matter. I just don’t want it in my feed.
I have nipples in my phone wallpaper rotation. Female ones. But the relevant pieces fall into the artistic rather than pornographic category.
NSFW is a insanely fuzzy concept that allows you to draw the line essentially anywhere. It’s why I’m on an instance that blocks porn, rather than just using an account with nsfw tagged content disabled. Because that way I can keep nsfw enabled, and not miss stuff I want to see, because some people will mark stuff I would never in my wildest dreams think is nsfw.
Or they just use it to mark spoilered content, nevermind that people with nsfw disabled wont then see the post at all.
My instance manually blocks instances and communities that are pornographic. Because that’s literally the only way this can work.
There will always be someone who thinks any given piece of content should/shouldn’t be considered nsfw.
It’s a gradient that allows you to slightly lean in onen direction or the other, so stop acting like it should “at least” do anything. It does not draw a clear line, and there is no way to shift online culture so that it could.
So… nothing being presented here would affect you at all, then? If you don’t have NSFW content blocked, and your instance manually reviews blocked instances, marking softcore stuff as NSFW wouldn’t change how you interact with that content (unless your instance is overly zealous in blocking). So what’s the problem here?
I run a ton of these communities.
And I care about the fediverse as a whole.
Marking an entire category of content as nsfw because a tiny minority can’t be bothered to block it themselves, without good reason, will immediately kneecap community and content discovery.
I saw this in the numbers immediately.
I do still use the feature. And I calibrate the line of what is and what is not, based on votes, comments and reports.
One, single, upset person, is not reason enough cut off dozens or hundreds of people from encountering content they might like.
Okay sure, but why are we considering the people who don’t want to see that content as worth less than the people who do? For that matter, why is engagement more important to you than curating an appreciative audience? People are railing against people that downvote in /all as well, but what’s the alternative to express that they don’t want to see that content - blocking entire instances is an overly broad approach except in some specific cases (lemmy.nsfw for example) and blocking community by community is exhausting, given how many new highly specific “anime moe tiddy thigh-gap colored hair” communities crop up daily. Downvoting expresses disinterest, and it’s apparently common enough to see things you’re not interested in that “not downvoting in /all” is being pushed as basic courtesy. Asking them to tag things NSFW, or even just bringing out a different tag that isn’t blocked by default (which god, we really need even if just for spoilers) is a perfectly valid request that at the very least solves the downvoting problem, among others (it’s hard to bring on new users when a site gets a reputation for being overrun with anime fanservice communities, for example)
Why are people who want to see the content worth less than the ones who don’t? Anyone can block content. No-one is likely to find content they don’t even know is there.
What is the difference between engagement and an appreciative audience? I aim to minimize the number of people I offend, while maximizing the people I reach. What’s wrong with that? What more can I do?
The only certain way to offend no-one, even if I marked every single post nsfw, is to stop posting entirely.
I keep seeing this argument. What new communities? With a couple exceptions, I run them! I haven’t made a new one in over a year, and I’ve only recently had to add half a dozen new entries to my list.
Several clients offer word filtering. Asking for the feature in lemmy itself is fine, and something I fully support.
Oh boy am I not up for dealing with a point-by-point right now, so in no particular order:
Engagement is any interaction, including viewing, from a user. An appreciative audience is one that wants to view it. Why is Thighdeology marked nsfw on reddit, yet still a hugely popular subreddit, but somehow that would be a deathknell for it to be the same on lemmy? Your list includes none of the many AI-specific anime art communities that are out there, I think you need to be a bit more proactive in your browsing. Asking people to specify every word they don’t want to be exposed to is absurd, when there’s already one single and very easy to append word - NSFW - that you are ardently rejecting on the basis that it would damage your interactions.
Additionally people shouldn’t have to expose themselves to everything they don’t want to be exposed to before they can block it - there’s no way to know about something without interacting with it, but if you don’t want sexualized (but arguably non-explicit) images of anime girls in your feed, you’d have to go through and view a bunch of them before you can block it. Surely you can see how that’s… pretty ridiculous? Potentially very demeaning?
I don’t maximize for that. The only “engagement” I actively look for is the positive kind. You think I wouldn’t start marking things nsfw if it got a ton downvotes when I didn’t?
Currently, the reality is the other way around. Pointlessly tagged posts receive significantly less votes, because people looking for porn don’t vote, and people browsing normally, are less likely to check a post tagged nsfw.
Critical mass. Tons of things are a death-knell to fediverse activity simply because it is tiny. Reddit can support a shitload of duplicate communities any one of which outweighs the single equivalent fediverse community by orders of magnitude.
I actively refuse to engage with AI content. There are active communities besides !share_anime_art@lemmy.dbzer0.com that aren’t on porn instances?
Finding a common word used in content you don’t like is no harder that blocking. The feature becoming generally available would allow us to implement arbitrary tags. Why does this suggestion offend you? It’s a genuine win-win solution.
That’s true for any category of content. Are you saying anime girls are somehow inherently bad or damaging to users, as compared to for example sports content?
I blocked music content from my feed this way. Should I feel demeaned for having been made to see things other people enjoy, but I don’t care for?
Okay, but then can you stop trying to use people talking about communities which include the ones you don’t want to engage with as a way to dismiss their claims as blown out of proportion? Maybe they’re just not talking about your content, or your content is being lumped in with the AI slop since there’s so much of it, and anime AI is getting so good these days you can’t tell at a casual glance.
You literally do, though. You just said you do. Everyone does, god knows I do, but I have the courtesy to marking my NSFW as NSFW since I’m confident that people who are interested in my content can just look it up. I don’t know why you think the people interested in your content can’t do the same, especially when you curate an extremely helpful list of communities related to the topic.
See, I don’t even care about this (beyond that I think the culture of ridiculously exploitative depictions of women in anime being defended as “not technically porn” is the root of some incredibly toxic aspects of modern culture, which is a completely separate issue I admit) it’s just bizarre how hostile people are to being asked to use the one tool we have to separate content.
(edit: also you’re trying to conflate adult-targeted content with a long and entrenched history of sexism with music preferences, and I know you know that’s a false equivalency. sheesh.)
No I don’t and no I didn’t. I don’t get downvotes and reports and go “yesss, views and engagement”. Each time I have, I’ve reconsidered my posts in an effort to not have that happen again.
Your apparent assumption that I don’t care whether content is seen by people who want to see it, is entirely on you. I do care.
But the only way to ensure no-one who doesn’t want to see it, sees it, is not to post. So yeah, I’m ok with some minority of people being put off.
Do you have an example beyond the one I made it clear I’m aware of? I block these too. They’re not popping up every day, which was your point.
Did you miss the part where I said I do the same? I’m simply do not agree that there is any level of sense in filing the entire ecategory of anime content on lemmy, under nsfw. That is completely insane. It’s an art medium, not a pornhub genre.
I’m not sure where to even begin unpacking the prejudice towards anime-fans here. Sure there are issues, but come on. This isn’t argument. The only reason to include this thought is to reveal how little you think of me because of something I like.
Because it doesn’t work. The NSFW toggle is used to tag porn, spoilers, nsfl, and many other things, yet at the same time a ton of people use and expect it to work the way “not safe for work” implies. It’s a mess. We need arbitrary tagging.
In the meantime using it more than necessary DOES slow down the already glacial growth of federated social media. That’s a fact, not an opinion. Suggesting it should be applied to an entire fucking fandom is not far off wishing that that the entire fandom not be allowed on the fediverse. And no, “it works fine for porn” is not a counter-argument. People looking for porn aren’t going to be avoiding the nsfw tag. They’ll head straight for it. Would you like to guess what they do if they find one of my communities instead of actual porn? They downvote.
What long entrenched history of sexism? Weeb=sexist now? It seems to me you genuinely hate us. As a whole and individually. You want me hidden more than necessary because apparently the things I’m into make me sexist or worse. And/or my sharing the things I’m into, spreads this sexism, and worse.
Seriously, are you actually claiming that having to view a couple anime girls before blocking the relevant communities, for which a convenient list is provided, is so dangerous and corrupting that it warrants the “warning label” that is nsfw being applied to every single related post?
And I think everyone here can agree that any of these subs that are focused on explicit material should absolutely be pressured into setting the sub NSFW.
The part that has people against the OP is that he’s claiming a girl in a relatively modest bikini should be flagged NSFW, and that a sub for non-explicit anime pics should have to adopt the NSFW label, which seems excessive to me.
No! Those who posts unmarked NSFW are the ones that should stop being a selfish prick and mark it as NSFW
The example OP has giving isn’t even NSFW though, so no tag is warranted.
Softcore porn is absolutely NSFW for many people.
Well since you obviously didn’t open the link, it’s a girl in a fully covered bikini. Literally not softcore anything, it’s as racy as sports illustrated.
… where do you work that sports illustrated isn’t considered NSFW? Seriously I’d get fired out of a cannon if I was caught browsing it at work, this seems kinda disingenuous to imply it’s not NSFW just because it’s not explicit.
I’ve seen worse images as people’s office wallpaper/screensaver.
Okay, but you do understand that most people don’t work in an environment where that would be considered at all acceptable right?
I’m not sure. Most people are in China and India and I know little about their office culture.
It’s not much different from western cultures, though india does have a problem with sexism in (and outside of) the workplace. But are you really arguing demographic semantics to avoid the point at hand?
As I said, I regularly seen bikini picture and the like on office computers, so yes, I think it’s acceptable in “western culture”. Maybe not in some of the more puritan countries or large corporations, but in general, yes.
Also the term NSFW isn’t defined by what is literally allowed at workplaces, so the entire argument is pointless. It’s a tag for porn and gore. Bikini pictures aren’t porn.
It’s… literally “Not Safe For Work”. There’s no formal definition, let alone one beyond “not safe to have at work”. It was a usenet appelation applied to content you don’t want your boss seeing you browsing, it’s never evern been explicitly about porn? It’s not exactly hardline censorship to want tagging guidlines to be followed. At the moment, /all is the best way to find new communities to subscribe to. It’s not unreasonable to ask people not to complain about the content they find there, but since this is the one single content filter common to lemmy, it’s also not unreasonable to ask people to use it?
Despite what the letters literally stand for or where it’s from, it doesn’t actually mean that (anymore). If it did for most people almost any media would be “NSFW”. Most people would get in trouble for watching a movie or playing video games at work, regardless of content. That’s obviously a useless definition.
Since it was popularized on reddit and other social media the tag now defacto means porn/gore. That’s how the vast majority of people uses it and that’s how I think it should be used.
And of course people can complain. But well, sometimes the complain might just fall on deaf ears. And in the case if demanding bikini pictures be tagged as NSFW, I think rightfully so.
But it’s never stopped meaning that, though? It’s still extremely commonly used to tag that sort of content, and I don’t know why you’re starting to insist that words don’t mean the things they say.
The situations in which you’re watching any alternative media in a workplace setting are potentially fraught with reprimand, though. “You’re there on work time being on your phone is literally theft” and all that hyperbolic corpo BS. But during times you can be on your phone, it’s still broadly less acceptable to be watching “haurhi jiggles up and down [nightcore] [bigtits]” videos than it would be watching generic videogame content.
The literal meaning of the phrase is useless, since what is safe at a workplace varies drastically with the workplace. It’s also relevant in a lot of other settings that aren’t work, like browsing your phone on public transport or at school. It’s also very common for phrases to have a different meaning from the literal meaning of the individual words. I’d say that’s even the case for most phrases. When you say it’s raining cats and dogs there aren’t actually cats and dogs falling from the sky. In this case the actual “work” aspect isn’t relevant.
What the tag does signify is that the following content might be disturbing or inappropriate in certain situations so you can be aware before opening it. And bikini pictures don’t warrant that warning, even if some workplaces have a policy against it.
Dude, maybe take a few steps away from the computer for a little while.
… What?
Never mind China and India — there's much more cultural diversity in the world than you'd have us imagine even within any one "western" country.
Mmk. So?
It’s legally sold to minors, available in grocery stores, hell I’ve seen them sitting on a rack in doctor’s offices.
NSFW is the terminology we use for actual explicit material, that’s the point. It’s a shorthand. Getting overly literal about how ‘work’ should be applied to the context is like arguing that all FPS games are actually RPGs because you’re ‘playing the role’ of some character.
No, NSFW is terminology we use for content that might get you in trouble for browsing at work. Just because you use it differently doesn’t change the definition.
And nobody is going to get in trouble for scrolling past a woman with a bikini on at work. If your workplace is that strict, you’re going to be in more trouble for scrolling social media on the clock.
More graphic content is visible in ads on any major website. The idea that a clothed woman should be censored as if it’s vulgar is excessive in my opinion. Where do we draw the line? Shoulders? Knees? Ankles? I had assumed as a society we had decided it was the actual genitals, but apparently not.
Why does your work have cannons
Why are they human-sized barrels
and finally
How do i get a job there
It wasn’t in my building, but the maintenance building was on the same campus and they were for triggering avalanches. I think you’d probably have to be chopped up pretty fine to fit in them though (I think we can all agree that would be NSFW content…) but you could probably manage it. And man, IDK. The DOT howitzers teams are never hiring, believe me I check regularly.
Just because there’s no nudity doesn’t mean it’s safe-for-work. This would absolutely make my female colleagues uncomfortable and that falls under the spirit of NSFW. Getting pedantic about what is or isn’t pornographic or nudity to justify having gross pictures up on your screen is entirely beside the point – if there’s any reason it could contribute to a less equitable workplace, it should be labeled NSFW. If there’s any debate about it at all, it’s the considerate thing to do.
NSFW is cultural shorthand for porn or graphic content. It’s not a literal guideline for what’s acceptable in every single workplace. Should ACAB posts be labeled NSFW because saying that at my workplace in the US south would make a hell of a lot of people uncomfortable?
And why are you browsing Lemmy at work in full view of passing coworkers? Is it that lax that you can just openly fuck around and your only concern is someone might see a girl in a bikini?
If the ACAB post is just words, then no. If it’s imagery of people being beaten by cops, then yes. There’s no need to argue extremes to make the point seem ridiculous – just use judgment and be kind.
It’s about being considerate; that’s where the conversation starts and ends, so don’t get sidetracked or focus on semantics. It does not matter why someone is browsing any website at their place of work, so let’s not even bring that into the conversation. NFSW is meant to help people view content at work/in public by making it avoidable. It’s a communication from the author/community to the audience that the content may or may not be inappropriate – that’s it. If it’s debatable and isn’t tagged, that’s inconsiderate and a request to tag it should be treated with consideration and kindness (barring trolls, which OP clearly isn’t).
But that’s just my opinion, and I acknowledge yours is different.
I agree with this. This is the fundamental point of the tag. I don’t want anyone to lose their job, or suffer undue consequences for happening across something particularly graphic, upsetting, or unlawful.
This is what I don’t agree with. Everything is debatable. I live in the US south, if my coworkers had their way, any image of a drag queen or a pride parade would have to be marked NSFW. And while thankfully this isn’t a problem on Lemmy (yet), that means a sizable portion of the population would be unable to see that content at all without uploading their ID and giving up any semblance of anonymity.
There’s nothing dangerous, illegal, or upsetting about a woman in a bikini. It’s something any person might see in public at literally any time if you live somewhere warm. And yes, I’m sure there are people who would feel harassed if you waved an image like that in their faces, but I cannot imagine a scenario where someone suffers any professional setback because someone saw them scroll past some clothed tits.
Thanks for taking the time to explain :)
Most employers would be pretty unhappy with you publicly reading the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition.
And they would be fine with you publicly browsing Lemmy on the clock?
Yes, lots of jobs have expected down time.
They better not go outside then.
Lota of people dress lightly in public, not to mention public art and adverts show quite a lot.
We have several statues of nude men and women in my city!
Requiring that social media be more “sanitized” than normal public life is ridiculous.
If you really wouldn’t want a coworker seeing it, it’s NSFW I would say. Personally I think someone even seeing a forum that looks like Reddit open on your work computer is a bit NSFW, but that’s what the tag is for.
That image is 100% NSFW
You’re a… brave person, posting this on Lemmy of all places. The only thing more dangerous would posting the word f*ck OH SHIT LOOK OUT HERE THEY COME!
<img alt="" src="https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExajdlNmlmMWxnYTJ4M2d1ZzljeXcwYnRhMWNkN20xOW5naWp0dHZncCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/Wvo6vaUsQa3Di/giphy.gif">
That’s your example of softcore porn? There’s much racier content on magazine covers in the grocery checkout line. Stop trying to impose your puritanical aesthetic on the rest of the world. It’s called /all for a reason. What’s wrong with you?!
I feel like you've missed the point entirely.
I’ve responded to the top comment to address the flaws in that argument.
I personally don’t consider this NSFW.
It’s clearly a less racey example. Multiple people hung up on this 🤦♂️.
Would you like a real example? Brave enough to give me your work email? I promise to send you nothing but untagged Lemmy content.
I’ve been working remote ever since COVID. Also, if we’re going this far, I think this whole culture of absent personal space at work isn’t something to defend. If anything, it’s kind of nice to punish this system by having something shocking or insulting on your screen. But we all need money and people don’t want to get fired so I can understand that. We’re all going to get fired and replaced by AI anyway though.
How is it ‘clearly’ anything? It’s the only example OP provided, what else are we supposed to judge his claims by?
You’ve upset the thirsty weebs. They yearn for their Yuri furi porn.
No there is nothing to do. This is decentralized social media. This is what they want. This place will never be popular, will always lack the content, and in general be a shit show content wise.
Stop browsing by /all. The firehose will always have content that is of dubious categorization. Instead of trying to change the whole world to conform to your tastes, curate your communities and leave others be.
I don’t disagree, and it’d be really nice if people were better about tagging things like scantily clad yuri as NSFW. Even if there’s no naughty bits, I’d just really appreciate being able to browse for new linux communities in public while having questionable stuff come up as blurred thumbnails. I don’t want it gone, I just want tagging guidelines to be followed.
Sorry, I understand that it would be nice if others did the right thing all the time, but we can not reasonably expect this to work at any larger scale.
Besides, how many new linux communities are popping up every day that it makes more important for you to be browsing by /all? It seems like a bad workflow and really poor ergonomics to rely on /all for content discovery when you know what type of groups you can search for.
Why can’t we expect that, though? True bad actors are surprisingly rare, and minor fauxpas forgiven. That’s kinda how all of human society is able to function.
I don’t really know what you’re trying to say about linux communities or my workflow - that was being used an arbitrary example, and the actual goal with browsing /all is to find content you are interested in but previously unaware of. Not all communities follow strict naming guidelines, let alone tagging guidelines, and it’s actually a real problem onboarding new users to the fediverse (mastadon’s “where is the content” meme, for example)
Because the larger the number of people in the group, the more disagreement there will be about defines “bad actors” and “minor fauxpas”. Right now in this thread people are arguing over whether or not these should be classified as NSFW, for instance.
I know you meant meant linux just as an example, but what I am trying to understand is how much of an habit is it for you to get into content discovery mode that you worry about “doing it in public”?
I’m not really up for a discussion on the foundational concept of ethos since it’s like 5am here, but conversations like this thread are pretty fundamental to how every human endeavor functions (hence why they’re broadly called ‘forums’). I don’t expect everyone to always do the “right thing” (nor do I want to litigate the minutiae of what “right thing” could mean in this context), but giving up on the entire idea of having a guideline to follow just because some people won’t seems a little defeatist.
Lemmy is still extremely new, and finding new communities to help grow (or even just finding new sources of content to consume, which is similarly valid) is fairly difficult without resorting to the one tool we have to help discover them. I’d wager, without having access to the backend, that right now the majority of users browse by /all since most niche communities only have at best a handful of new posts a week, and that content is exhausted quickly. At least, that’s what I do, and I’m really very confident in my not-even-being-slightly-not-basic.
Yeah, I could bet that is the case as well. But while I understand the justification for this behavior, I don’t think that it makes for a healthy one. Browsing by /all because the content of my curated feed is stale seems like driving to a McDonalds after finishing a healthy dinner and I’m not feeling completely full.
To torture a metaphor, right now it’s more like driving to McDonald’s after having a pretty basic meal two days earlier. I agree that ultimately you’re right, but given just how small most developing communities are, it’s pretty reasonable to look around to find new things to engage with. If nobody did that I think lemmy might just fizzle out as a network, it’s just too small to really support the kind of curated feed we’re used to with larger sites like reddit/twitter/insta. The addictive nature of those sites is a good debate for a separate time, but in this case even getting to the level of “please enjoy responsibly” requires quite a bit of searching around.
To continue with tortured metaphors: we can always go to the supermarket and cook our own food. If the content on the communities I’m interested is low, I can go to reddit and repost it here, or I can take a look at one my RSS feeds and see if I can find anything relevant, etc.
Sure but if I wanted to do that, I’d just… doordash… or something…
…
Okay I think the poor metaphor has had enough (read: I’m too dumb to carry it on). And I agree, but if I was just after new content I’d just go to reddit or my RSS feed and be content with that content. Part of the goal in transitioning to lemmy is to find new sources of content on lemmy, which just requires effort in sifting thru things like /all until you’ve built up enough to reasonably contribute to / consume / comment on / etc.
I understand, but bootstrapping a whole new network is hard. Lemmy is reporting ~55k monthly active users and to do that it’s even counting people who mere vote as an activity. Following the 1/9/90 rule, we should expect ~550 active posters here, which is simply not enough to sustain all the long tail of interests out there.
All I’m saying is that it would be better for everyone if we focused more on the active participation (posting content that is relevant to you and your interests) than a passive “let me play some slot machine and get a dopamine hit” that is browsing /all.
Sure, contributing is better for communities than consuming. No argument there.
I’m not trying to conform the world to my taste. Porn like stuff makes the platform less appealing in general.
All is where we make our first impression to the world. All is where (on a still growing platform) people go to discover. I don’t think having an additional “soft NSFW” filter would be a bad thing.
There’s a reason most clients have an NSFW filter in their settings.
That’s literally your taste in content. I’m sure there’s plenty of people who find porn like stuff more appealing.
Also, All isn’t the first impression, it’s almost always your instance feed that is the default.
OP is on lemmy.world, and default feed is All (sorted by Active) there
No that’s not my taste in content. That’s me trying to get this reddit alternative to gain traction. And it’s not going to do that by being an echo chamber. If you have kids, you want parental controls so they don’t have to see certain content. If you’re at work, you want be able to prevent suggestive drawings to hit your screen, or on public transport.
Your response act as if I’m asking for a ban. I’m asking for an ability for the user to control it. Leave it off by default for all I care (which is what the current NSFW setting does).
/all may not be the first impressing, but it is where the majority of new user will go due to their instance not necessarily having that much content.
Which one, exactly? A woman showing a nipple? Artistic renditions of men in classic statues? A furry? A LGBTQ person existing?
That’s how it begins. We’ve already seen how it ends.
Everyone calm yer tits
*jumps*
Also, can we please agree that is really poor netiquette to downvote posts in communities you are not subscribing to? If you are not subscribed to a community, you should have no saying whether the content is relevant to the community or not.
Instead of downvoting, hide posts you don’t want the content on your feed or report it if is actually improper content. Downvoting things just because you saw it on /all is counter-productive and hostile af.
No. Some communities I don’t want to see regularly, but I know how the community works.
And your solution to that is browsing by /all?
I think it’s a habit carried over from reddit’s algo, which would rank communities you downvote as less likely to be shown to you. People don’t really understand how the /all algo works on lemmy (which as I understand it is just the most recently interacted things on the network, blatted out of a hose?)
It is 100% a bad habit inherited from Reddit, and this is one of the many reasons that I wish Fediverse developers stopped trying to emulate the closed platforms and started using ActivityPub as a powerful social graph to be shared by a single client.
I think it might be too early in the life of the fediverse to completely dispense with the underlaying concept - we’ve only barely gotten enough users to have unique-to-lemmy content - but it’s an interesting article & a similarly interesting take. Certainly something should be done to increase new communities ‘discoverability’ to the broad userbase. The current
/allalgo is already a huge improvement over the very early days, so there’s probably value in developing the idea further (including potentially adopting that social graph idea, though implementation would be… difficult, while maintaining the decentralized control the fediverse was explicitly designed to have)Phanpy (a client for Mastodon) is showing that we can have the customization and discoverability happening in-device. Decentralization would improve if we stop relying on this platform-centric approach and started building on generic ActivityPub servers.
Anyway, sorry for the tangent. I feel like that this generation of developers just keep making the mistakes from the past when they could instead learn from the elders.
Nah it’s a genuinely interesting tangent, and I do agree that there’s a great deal still to be done to really get the most out of AP as a protocol. I worry that adoption for non-platformed methods of interaction would be extremely low, just because of the increased barrier to entry. Part of the reason I’m on Lemmy instead of finishing my own AP browsing application is just the time investment that I’m unwilling to put in, and as customization goes up the time cost of configuring your setup similarly increases. But I do agree that there’s a better solution than what we have now.
Huh, I browse Subscribed regularly, All I don’t? When a post doesn’t belong in a community I know (ie regardless of subscription status) I vote down.
You took my comment way too literally, then. What I am asking is for people that browse by /all to stop downvoting everything they see, as if there were trying to train some algorithm.
This can’t be real?
What? That people browse by /all and downvote everything they don’t like? You can bet that this is standard practice. I’ve argued with a good number of people who treat the /all feed just as a regular feed and feel completely justified in downvoting anything they don’t personally like.
Take a look at these and tell me if these people are down voting because they are interested in the community or they are just trying to bury posts they don’t like:
lemvotes.org/post/communick.news/post/3897488
lemvotes.org/post/communick.news/post/3839154
communick.news/post/3822175
There is no evidence for algorithm-based voting and those are mostly controversial posts which discuss the very acceptance of LLMs into a program, ie there is no guarantee that they belong into the respective community.
I didn’t say “algorithm-based” voting. I said “people vote on anything they don’t like, as if they would be training some algorithm”.
The posts are about Emacs packages for using “AI agents” posted on the Emacs community. People are downvoting them only because “AI is bad”, not because they particularly care about Emacs or the package at hand. It’s an idiotic, self-righteous reason to downvote an article and it clearly shows that the people doing it have no relation to the communities where they are being posted.
I meant my request to mark the community as NSFW is being downvoted, which I understand.
I downvote the post only if the mod just removes my request, which I think is mod abuse.
Then block the community, report to the admin if the community is not respecting the instance rules and carry on with your day. Downvoting is just some passive-aggressive way of expressing your disapproval for the tastes/interests of the community members.
You’ll find that admin == mod == post OP in a lot of these cases
One more reason to just block the community or even the instance.
I browse All and have like 2000 communities blocked
[Edit] 1823 communities and 12 instances blocked
I presume you don’t have alts then!
Technically I DO have an account on a different instance I was considering switching to but I logged out immediately after seeing they federated with hexbear lol
I occasionally see similar complaints, and I’m sure it’s legitimate for some users. But personally I don’t get it. I don’t block NSFW content, and yet I rarely see it in /all. When I do it’s usually a bunch at once, but like I said it doesn’t happen a lot.
The only thing in /all that used to bother me is the sports stuff, but by blocking a single community that’s mostly gone now.
Nobody really seems to be pointing out that you are on an instance that does not require the behavior you are requesting.
I thought this community is for discussions about the Fediverse and not limited to any particular instance.
Yes, but there are no (cannot be) any content rules that apply to the entire fediverse, the admins of each instance determine what experience their users will have.
Not everyone is seeing the same posts you are seeing, and your instance has no rules on the topic. You could have more luck enacting change by messaging your admins or making a meta post in your instance’s meta community.
I’m a bit baffled at how many people are misunderstanding my post.
This is not instance related. This is just an additional NSFW type of filter. Please reread the OP or my other comments.
I see, then what you’re asking for is sadly impossible.
Also FWIW I do not have the same issue as you. Not sure why!
Plenty of other people have said it, and I’ll repeat it: Stop browsing by /all. Find a handful of communities you want to subscribe to, and stick with those.
I’ve responded to the top comment to address the flaws in that argument.
There is a fair point to make that it’s instances that should default to /local instead of /all - at least for uncredentialed guests. Since if you want to see more, you can just get to the next instance, and the next, and the next…, and that way we avoid reloading basically the same content and stuff on every instance you visit.
And it helps instances better moderate how they present themselves to potential sign-ups.
That is indeed a fair talking point, which of course has its own risk of a new user not know there’s more to the fediverse (or not knowing what the fediverse is) than only what a local instance shows.
A new user will know because they sign in and they get access to more features of the instance, such as ability to follow, star, block, etc.
A mere visitor, can simply be pointed to the /all button. It just does not need to be the default.
The only way All works is by either manually blocking individual communities or manually blocking certain instances.
Once you’re done, it’s mostly fine, but like you say, new ones do pop up.
There’s ONE GUY who runs like 20 different AI porn communities and keeps creating more.
Exactly what I’ve done. Set my settings to hide NSFW, blocked most of the “soft” communities like hot girls and moe anime girls and whatever else (blocking the lemmynsfw.com instance is a great place to start), and I use All frequently. That’s how I’ve found all the communities I’ve subscribed to, but frankly, my /all feed is small enough that I usually see all my subscribed communities anyway.
Why am I not surprised that the most sensible response comes from one of the more awesome mods on this platform
o7 sir, thanks for acknowledging my point and chiming in.
Hey, I was in your boat when I started on Lemmy 2 years ago.
“Wow, that’s a lot of furry porn. And gay porn. And gay, furry porn.”
Not gonna judge, if that’s your thing, it’s your thing, it’s just not MY thing…
Skill issue. That’s literally what /all is for.
Block what you don’t want, or set your starting page to subscribed and curate from there. That’s half the point of this entire place.
The other half you already did the work: notified the comms they have to set to NFW, etc.
I am amazed at how helpless some people....
You don't want to see it, click block!
JFC have some fucking agency... I know it is annoying but the fix is easy and right there.
It’s what TikTok did to a generation. It’s incredible.
Back in my day, I could even program the time on the VCR!
@lambalicious @sunzu2
Ah, but could you programme the timer to record while you were out?!
I mean I could, but I ran out of tapes to keep recording stuff in.
I’ve responded to the top comment to address the flaws in that argument.
Filter ani.social
I don’t know any place which have the proposed “soft nsfw” filter separate from “nsfw”.
Comparison with reddit is weird as reddit r/all is full of ““artistic”” pictures or paintings of naked women.
Also the fediverse is not really like reddit. The more the platform grows the more useless All becomes. Try to go to mastodon and browse by “all” it’s unusable. Either pick an instance with a good “local” you like or all is not really that important. I don’t think it’s a “first impressions”, first impression is “local”. All is never going to be a curated feed, not a consistent one. It’s a federated platform, which means a LOT of diversity and variety on communities and posts.
Also I don’t see or even want to start consider anything that shows a little skin “nsfw”. I think that’s a very personal taste that should not be universally applied.
I really don’t buy the argument here.
Argument 1: nobody else has it so why should we? Because we are new, the next step - we improve what needs to be done better.
Argument 2: reddit is full of porn… see above. We can make it better, at very little cost to anyone.
Argument 3 is undermining your first 2, but I agree. This would cause a few instances to become very popular and render the concept of federation unnecessary.
I don’t understand how a bunch of people here are basically say /all is a sewer, accept it.
I’m say it is not and doesn’t have to be. It is a place for discovery, and there is a way to make that more pleasant. Another commenter said an AI filter would also be good.
All I am suggesting is In addition to having the Fediverse allowing posts and communities to be marked NSFW, to allow for more filters. One filter like what I am suggesting could be a snowflake or FamFriendly filter which removes suggestive, soft porn or racy or soft gore stuff. Another could be AI which removes synthetically generated content.
How anyone can be against that is beyond me. I’m not asking for these things to be turned on by default, or to shove it down people’s throats. By default /all would still be the same
I understand NSFW and FamilyFriendly are blurry concepts. It is still up to the post OPs, community creators, moderators and instance administrators to use these properly.
People are against it because several reasons.
First because it’s a very specific taste/opinion that they don’t share. You are saying that “all would be more appealing without softcore porn”, but it seems that you are the only one who thinks that here, most people don’t care or even like it. We could also put a filter to blurry dog pictures for people scare of dogs, where does it end? Until which point personal tastes should have their own explicit filters? It ends in a “word filter” which is already usable.
Also I would say that most people is against this because it reads as a first step towards a “porn ban”. We have no puritan advertisements or pay processor to please. People here like the freedom. And that would be a step in the opposite direction. It reads a little like so many discourses we are seeing in so many places to make them “family friendly” and to “protect the children”. I would suppose that due the nature of the fediverse (which is a push back against those people controlling our internet) is against anything that looks like that.
Ok, I hear you. But as I said, it’s just adding filter options to those snowflakes like me, while not changing a single pixel for those like yourself.
Allowing superior UX for more people is how you make the internet better.
Nobody is advocating for a ban, nor can or will this be used as a first step towards one.
History has proven you wrong since as early as the Dark Ages and as recently as two weeks ago in the UK.
Mate no. the UK ban did not originate from a federated open source community implementing filter systems.
Stop spreading absolute panic bullshit like this.
I would say, show me historic proof, but I doubt you’re that type of person.
It’s also bad because of the UK online safety act. I don’t want our flamingo to be at risk :(
I feel ya, some of the posts you said that on, probably should be NSFW. But not a romantic kiss imho. Other sites solved this ages ago with explicit, questionable and safe tags.
I think it’s ridiculous that Lemmy adopted the binary NSFW option from Reddit. With the Ukraine war and people posting videos as NSFW with body parts laying around. I don’t want to see the anime pictures in the same bucket as that either.
There needs to be more tags and that would make everyone happy.