The basics of the Fediverse. Facebook, Twitter, Tiktok, Reddit, ... vs the Fediverse. What do you think?
from tfm@europe.pub to fediverse@lemmy.world on 28 Mar 16:46
https://europe.pub/post/67790

What do you think about this graphic?

It should give an easy overview of the architecture of the Fediverse and what it differentiates from old social media.

#fediverse

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es_eskaliert@feddit.org on 28 Mar 16:58 next collapse

Okay maybe I don’t get it but how can I access mastodon from my lemmy account?

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 17:04 next collapse

Simply put your Mastodon profile URL into the search.

Eg. europe.pub/u/luislavena@mastodon.social

But it works better the other way around

Coelacanth@feddit.nu on 28 Mar 17:11 collapse

Mastodon and Lemmy have only limited interoperability. You can’t follow individual users on Lemmy, so most of it is one-way. Mastodon users can post to Lemmy communities by @-ing a specific community, and Lemmy users can then reply as normal and their replies will show up in the Mastodon users feed.

Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 17:15 next collapse

That’s why I’m always a bit reluctant to have an infographic with Mastodon and Lemmy fully connected. Sure, it’s possible to interact, but it’s not ideal.

Having another one with Lemmy, Mbin and Piefed servers could be better

wise_pancake@lemmy.ca on 28 Mar 17:16 collapse

Subscribing to user posts on Lemmy would be a fantastic feature

Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 17:20 next collapse

Mbin has microblogging

Snoopy@piefed.social on 28 Mar 17:58 collapse

Yeah i do agree but sadjy, there is a reason some of us call it lemmyverse. We can see mastodon's content.

Since Lemmy doesn't really support hashtag, the core of mastodon discoverability, I think switching to a new software is better.

PieFed plan to support Mastodon this year. They already do it somewhat : you can follow PieFed user and a.gup.pe work well. You can also follow comment or post by setting up an alert.

Currently, only mbin can do that.

Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com on 29 Mar 00:02 collapse

hashtags don’t work well on the Fediverse, a hashtag doesn’t have an owning instance which means there’s no way to push/pull the content by hashtag

Snoopy@piefed.social on 29 Mar 03:28 collapse

On masto that helped me finding new people or thematic discussion. It may not work very well but it does work with boost. From what i was able to achieve with it, it's an amazing tool 😊

Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com on 29 Mar 04:10 collapse

yea I mean it’s fun to use and works well if you’re on a large instance like mastodon.social, I use it even on a medium size instance

but communities/groups work better on the fediverse, and maybe something in between the 2 could be created, some kind of federated version of hashtags

Snoopy@piefed.social on 29 Mar 06:23 collapse

I'm not on mastodon social, i use it on
- peculiar.florist an iceshrimp instance and their dev team want to support PieFed, Lemmy and Mbin
- mastodon.tedomum.net and mastodon.zaclys.com they both belong to a collective of hosters.

And hashtag work well. I have a list where i follow hashtag as if i had a community around this keyword.

If mastodon supported group, they would include lemmy, mbin, piefed support. We can remplace a.gup.pe

Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com on 29 Mar 07:40 collapse

like I said, hashtags are fun, but the fact that even if you follow the hashtag it only shows posts that were already federated into your instance confuses people

communities/groups will federate the posts for you if you follow, but following a hashtag does not give any federation

Even if you could follow hashtags on Lemmy, you would also need to be able to follow users for anything to show up (so that’s 2 big new features required). And since it requires following users, that would also mean a culture shift would be required, you’d need to convince your instance-mates to use their Lemmy accounts to follow people, but people are mostly here to follow communities not people.

I’m not against the features being added, I just don’t think they’re going to be as impactful to the Lemmy platform as expected.

Snoopy@piefed.social on 29 Mar 08:39 collapse

Well we would miss lot interesting topics from Mastodon. You may not see the point because english user base is big.

Most of our french user base stayed on Reddit or use Mastodon. Art ? Mastodon. News ? Mastodon...

So how can we solve that ? On Mastodon, i found lot user posting interesting links. Our left french media are also on mastodon. Should be able to crosspost them here ? :)

I went on mastodon, created an account, copy-pasta posted news on various communities, I used hashtag and some users commented on jlai.lu

It does works but we need to allow the users the freedom to be followed or not. If they want to be followed, they can follow mastodon users. And that would be the first step to break "locked" software as reddit, twitter.

We are more open then Reddit but, for me, i think we are replicating proprietary software organisation. We are still creating clone of twitter, reddit whereas we use a protocole that allow us to achieve much more things.

Shouldn't we try something else where lines between various software is blurred ?

Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 17:01 next collapse

These infographics seem better: fedecan.ca/en/guide/get-started

Recently posted on !fediverse@piefed.social

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 17:07 collapse

That’s cool but I think that’s too technical for the average social media user

Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 17:12 collapse

What about this one?

Was on !fedibridge@lemmy.dbzer0.com at some point:

lemmy.world/…/2098ca94-7b29-47a4-8c00-80d90dc9eef…

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2098ca94-7b29-47a4-8c00-80d90dc9eef0.png">

victorz@lemmy.world on 28 Mar 17:24 next collapse

So good 👌

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 17:28 collapse

That’s cool too, but way too much text for it to be quickly consumed on a small display. This is more for the second stage when people are already curious and want to learn more, in my opinion.

ApollosArrow@lemmy.world on 28 Mar 17:44 next collapse

I agree, yours is simpler and to the point. It gets the general idea across quicker. The links for blaze would be follow up things people would look into.

vinyl@lemmy.world on 28 Mar 18:31 collapse

Yea, too much yapping

Fediverse_Champion@lemm.ee on 28 Mar 17:15 next collapse

For the top services, I’d make each of the blue background circles a different color to better denote that they’re proprietary and incompatible.

For the Fediverse section, you could add Tumblr, and other services who also federate via activity pub to show our interoperability and expansive reach.

Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 17:20 collapse

Tumblr

Is it already working?

melroy@kbin.melroy.org on 28 Mar 17:20 next collapse

Mbin is missing ;P

Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 17:22 next collapse

Piefed as well

melroy@kbin.melroy.org on 28 Mar 17:24 collapse

Agreed

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 17:30 collapse

Here is the file link. Let’s create multiple versions :D

www.canva.com/design/DAGjBaOKTmM/…/edit

(Sorry for the proprietary service!)

Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 17:38 collapse

(Sorry for the proprietary service!)

Ouch, brace yourselves, FOSS ninjas incoming 😄

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 17:40 collapse

I’m not much of a designer 😅

merc@sh.itjust.works on 28 Mar 17:22 next collapse

It needs a lot more people and lines connecting to the centralize services, like 6+. You have 14 dudes in the fediverse, you should have a similar number of dudes in the traditional centralized social media things. You need to make it clear that every connection between two people goes through that central server. With only 3 or 4 it looks like it’s some kind of small community there, like you’re just saying “communities exist on Facebook” rather than “on Facebook everybody connects to one central Facebook service”. It would also be good to draw a black line around the edge of the bubble to indicate it’s a walled garden rather than an open system.

For the Fediverse example, it would be good to have a slightly darker shaded bubble with people around their local fediverse instance. That would indicate that there are local communities, but that they can still communicate with all the other communities. And, maybe show that people can be part of different communities, show one person connected both to a mastodon instance and a Lemmy instance.

Edit: I just thought of something else to make it clearer. On the centralized networks you could also make a darker group of people who are a community on say Facebook, but show that that community has to connect to each-other through the central server.

Gullible@sh.itjust.works on 28 Mar 17:28 next collapse

Out of curiosity, has anyone found any more conservative Lemmy communities? I’m always worried that we’ll get folks splitting off of rumble to find purchase here. So far, all of the c/conservative communities have been deliciously consumed by memes, but more is more funni

Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 17:32 collapse

!conservatives@hilariouschaos.com ?

hilariouschaos.com/c/Conservatives

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 17:36 next collapse

Damn, conservatism has been completely consumed by MAGA

Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 17:42 collapse

Wait until you hear about !thenewdonald@lemmyusa.com

[deleted] on 28 Mar 21:07 collapse

.

Gullible@sh.itjust.works on 28 Mar 17:47 collapse

I am indescribably proud of my instance. No one has searched for that community yet, and I’m not going to force that revolting load into our server. Upsetting that it seems to be an active community, though.

Snoopy@piefed.social on 28 Mar 17:43 next collapse

Maybe you can show that, we don't alway federate with every instance, with several drawing of this cloud network.

That's also part of our freedom :)

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 21:04 collapse

Good idea. But I think it’s better to explain that later, when people are already curious :)

JustJack23@slrpnk.net on 28 Mar 17:50 next collapse

Maybe remove the fediverse in the middle, if I knew nothing about the fediverse it will seem like it is centralized?

DannyBoy@sh.itjust.works on 28 Mar 18:06 collapse

John Fediverse is in the middle, holding all the fediverse conmections together.

MyNameIsAtticus@lemmy.world on 28 Mar 18:22 next collapse
lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 19:03 collapse

Is his first name John or Join?

teri@discuss.tchncs.de on 28 Mar 17:56 next collapse

In thie fesiverse graphic each person has exactly 1 connection to a fediverse thing. But in reality, there can be more. I guess in practice there are often more than one.

ElderReflections@fedia.io on 28 Mar 18:29 next collapse

I'd say these fall into the same trap that most fediverse explainers fall into — too focused on implementation details, not the experience. The average FB user thinks they're connecting to friends directly, not really considering the system architecture that powers it.

I'd like a graphic that shows how centralised media blocks connections to others outside thier walled garden.

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 18:51 next collapse

Interesting. How would you put this into a picture?

My friend (the average social media user) also didn’t seem too interested in it. I can imagine something interesting for the average user in a video but not in an image.

JustAnotherKay@lemmy.world on 29 Mar 04:50 next collapse

I would add random instance names to the service icons, to show them that the websites are interconnected and not just the services

ElderReflections@fedia.io on 29 Mar 08:35 collapse

Largely similar to what you have, but abstracting away the metalware and reframing as human-centric.

If the user is at the center, surrounded by more users, making primary & secondary connections, in an approximate circle shape. You can then show traditional social media owners as wedges of that circle, containing (owning) a fraction of the users & preventing connection to others, vs. Fedi that lets you connect to everyone.

JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world on 28 Mar 19:18 next collapse

But surely the average Zuckerbook user is not so dumb as to miss what this graphic is describing - a crazy utopia where they could talk to people on TikTok and Xitter as well as Zuckerbook?

aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee on 29 Mar 05:52 collapse

The implementation details matter tho, your instance admin actively makes federation decisions that affect the content you see. I like to explain joining an instance as pledging yourself to a warlord in medieval Japan

lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 19:06 next collapse

Lemmy and mastodon are not really connected, I don’t know about the others. I would focus on one protocol (is that the right term here?) and show different instances. I’m not on lemmy to follow mastodon users, it’s a very different concept

Tamero@feddit.org on 28 Mar 19:10 next collapse

But from Mastodon, you can follow and post in Lemmy groups.

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 19:16 collapse

You can subscribe to and comment in Lemmy communities from Mastodon.

xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org on 28 Mar 19:33 collapse

But you can’t view Mastodon posts from Lemmy.

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 19:40 collapse

True. That’s currently not possible

DavidGarcia@feddit.nl on 28 Mar 20:45 next collapse

bad chart

tfm@europe.pub on 28 Mar 20:57 collapse

Why?

Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Mar 21:30 collapse

Don’t pay too much attention lemmy.dbzer0.com/modlog?userId=1220346

EarlGrey@discuss.tchncs.de on 28 Mar 21:53 next collapse

My criticism is that it largely ignores the primary advantage of Fediverse services (Decentralizing services that are designed to operate Centrally), while mostly explaining what I’ve always considered to be the most pointless feature (Cross Service posting).

It’s a mildly neat feature if you want to centralize your entire social profile under one account (which is my security nightmare but you do you), but its not really fundamental to using federated services and its implementation can be inconsistent and confusing.

Maybe have a bunch of “Lemmy” (or whatever) nodes arranged in a circle, the same color, with the same icon, and connected to each other through the middle of the circle (not connecting to the “fediverse”, although I guess you could have a transparent “Lemmy” super imposed over it) Then have the users connected to each node. Or something…I’m on a bench and just broadly visualizing it.

The next trick is explaining the fault of centralized services in a graph.

Wanpieserino@lemm.ee on 29 Mar 05:05 next collapse

There’s no central authority here. But if it doesn’t matter which instance you are on, then all the users on Lemmy are still just part of Lemmy.

On the graph I see other icons than Lemmy.

Are we able to see content from other social media? Or what is meant with that

RvTV95XBeo@sh.itjust.works on 29 Mar 05:31 collapse

Certain other content crosses boarders. Mastadon especially. Whenever you see people replying to messages and it starts with some sort of @user@lemmy.verse tagging, you’re probably eavesdropping on a Mastadon thread and you don’t even know it.

therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip on 29 Mar 06:07 next collapse

GLOBALISTS ARE TAKING OVER

JOMusic@lemmy.ml on 29 Mar 04:13 next collapse

Love it! I’ve saved a copy, because I think it’ll make future explanations a lot easier. Thanks!

tfm@europe.pub on 29 Mar 06:26 collapse

Awesome! That’s what I wanted to achieve :D

RainbowHedgehog@50501.chat on 29 Mar 21:44 next collapse

This doesn’t explain things well. Lemmy is like a bunch of Reddits communicating with each other. The graphic makes it seem like there is just one Lemmy. Also, are Lemmy posts on Mastodon? Mastodon was largely empty last I checked.

Edit: I just now noticed the second Lemmy

Coelacanth@feddit.nu on 29 Mar 21:47 collapse

Mastodon users can subscribe to Lemmy communities I think, but it doesn’t really work very well. The Mastodon feed isn’t really made to support threaded content so all the Lemmy comments will fill and mess up your feed.

RainbowHedgehog@50501.chat on 29 Mar 23:04 next collapse

I think the ATProtocol is better when it comes to connecting between different social media types. But I think ActivityPub makes better use of different servers.

Though I think something like Lemmy is difficult for both because of how different it is from most other social media types.

RainbowHedgehog@50501.chat on 29 Mar 23:05 collapse

Also, I really like your username. I learned about that fish from Animal Crossing lol.

<img alt="" src="https://50501.chat/pictrs/image/d3cc4489-5263-41c2-8a53-c39ef01f1aae.jpeg">

pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip on 29 Mar 22:27 next collapse

Needs more chains and walls between groups in the top picture. And maybe some ransom notes.

(This is more to try to make you laugh, than useful feedback, sorry. I don’t have a very good idea how to actually include these concepts in a simple diagram.)

carrion0409@lemm.ee on 29 Mar 23:25 next collapse

I just got here but I’ve noticed this platform is much nicer compared to things like reddit. No bots, no ai softcore porn ads. I’ll take the fediverse any day.

tfm@europe.pub on 30 Mar 06:31 collapse

Nice to hear. :)

What convinced you to join?

carrion0409@lemm.ee on 30 Mar 16:01 collapse

Some people in a left leaning subreddit told me it would be a good backup. Then just yesterday I got perma banned and the admins wouldn’t tell me why. So now I’m here

tfm@europe.pub on 30 Mar 16:18 collapse

Welcome :)

carrion0409@lemm.ee on 30 Mar 16:57 collapse

Thanks ! They really were right when they said people here are much more pleasant than on reddit lol

PixelPilgrim@lemmings.world on 01 Apr 04:25 collapse

It’s actually a good graphic. I’d put a legend explaining some of the fediverse icons. And 2 sentences explaining that each fediverse icon communicated with other fediverse icons