from lwadmin@lemmy.world to fediverse@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 21:16
https://lemmy.world/post/32677896
cross-posted from: piefed.world/post/237378
Hello World!
We’ve recently added PieFed.World to the Fedihosting Foundation portfolio.
PieFed.World is still in its early stages, and we still need to port some of our automations we already have in place on Lemmy.World. This includes functionality to inform people about moderation actions taken against them, as well as some other moderation tooling. Administration is currently done by the same team responsible for Lemmy.World, and the same rules that apply to Lemmy.World also apply to PieFed.World.
What is PieFed?
PieFed is a Fediverse/Threadiverse platform similar to Lemmy or Mbin/kbin. You can find a description and feature comparison with Lemmy on their website.
While PieFed has a range of features currently not present in Lemmy, it also is a a lot younger and isn’t quite as robust as Lemmy currently is. There are still many bugs and missing features that you will likely run across compared to Lemmy, which will take time to be addressed. PieFed has fairly active development and is seeing a lot of issues addressed fairly quickly, which is especially important recently, as the number of active PieFed instances and PieFed users increased significantly with a range of Lemmy instances opening up PieFed instances as well. PieFed currently does not have proper “stable” releases and no test suite, so it’s not unlikely for things to break from time to time. Although 1.0.0 has already been released a while back, there are still too many issues addressed in more recent commits to stay on that version.
As PieFed is part of the same federated network as Lemmy and Mbin, all PieFed communities can be accessed from Lemmy and Mbin, as well as other Fediverse platforms. Likewise, PieFed can access communities from Lemmy, Mbin and other Fediverse platforms. Whether you use a PieFed instance, a Lemmy instance, or an Mbin instance, it does not matter what type of instance the community is on. The software affects your own user experience, but the content is available regardless.
Creation of communities
Creation of communities will be limited to admins for the first week of the public launch. We will reserve this time to allow community moderators of established communities to claim the name on PieFed.World before we open community creation to the public. We will limit this to communities with the same name and at least 2k monthly active users. In case of multiple qualifying communities with the same name on different instances expressing interest, Lemmy.World communities will be given preference, afterwards the number of monthly active users. Please reach out if you’d like to discuss an exception. Requests can be posted in !support@piefed.world. After the first week, community creation will be available to anyone.
Migration of communities
PieFed has a feature to migrate communities to a local instance. We will not be offering PieFed’s community migration feature initially.
We still need to research the details of how this works and the impacts this has on federation before we will make a decision on whether will support this in the future. If requested, we may reserve some names for potential future community migrations until we have made a decision to allow community migrations.
This does not prevent you from moving communities in the classic way, by opening up a new community and posting in the old community that people should move over.
Private voting
We had previously disabled private voting for PieFed.World before opening the instance to the public, as the original implementation has a range of drawbacks when it comes to federation, and our team overwhelmingly believed that the individual benefits of private voting did not outweigh the impact this has on the Fediverse beyond the user’s instance. Additionally, due to the implementation of that feature, it was also trivial to identify the original voter, which significantly limited the promises of this bringing actual voting privacy.
Since then, the implementation of private voting has been changed to provide the option of federating or not federating votes. While this is more likely to result in vote differences across instances, it does not feed bad information to other instances, which could make it a lot harder for other instances to identify manipulation.
Non-federated voting is available for all PieFed.World users.
Topics
Topics are a kind of “starter packs” or collections grouping multiple communities that people can follow, curated by the admin team. We don’t have a clear vision for the structure of these yet.
You can see an example structure on piefed.social.
Feel free to let us know your thoughts on this.
Feeds
PieFed supports feeds, which are user-created groups of communities, similar to topics. These are currently in a global namespace and all users can create public feeds in the same shared namespace.
Reputation and vote weight
PieFed has options for admins to treat certain types of content differently for “reputation” calculation, as well as options for weighing votes of specific instances differently compared to others. We currently have all options for treating certain content, communities or instances differently disabled.
How does PieFed compare to Lemmy?
PieFed has various features not present in Lemmy, check out their website!
There is also various functionality that Lemmy has, which you may be missing currently with PieFed for now:
Limited API support
In Lemmy, the default web interface relies entirely on the Lemmy API. This has the major benefit of all functionality available in the default web interface also being available to all third party clients. PieFed currently uses separate code paths and implementations for the default web interface and its API. To make it possible to access functionality in third party apps, dedicated API endpoints have to be created, even if this functionality is already available in the default web interface. This also includes alternative web-based UIs.
Multiple developers of alternative UIs and mobile clients are already working on PieFed support, some already released experimental versions.
Limited availability of Markdown previews
Markdown previews are currently only available in posts. There are many other places that accept markdown, but you can’t preview the rendered comment before submitting it. This is tracked in #532.
Image uploads only on post creation
Images can’t be uploaded to comments currently. You’ll have to host them externally for now. This is tracked in #768.
Autocompletion of users/communities
Usernames and communities can’t be autocompleted when typing their names currently. This is tracked in #799.
Limited availability of modlog
Modlog is currently very limited. While there is an instance modlog, there are currently no filters available, so it’s not possible for users to see actions taken against a specific user or within a specific community. Community modlog exists, but it is currently only available to community moderators and admins. Filtering modlog is tracked in #846.
Moderator hierarchy
Lemmy has a moderator hierarchy based on the time a moderator was appointed, relative to other moderators in the community. This allows moderators to add other moderators, but they can only remove moderators that were added later than they were. There are a few other actions that check moderator hierarchy as well, including deletion only being possible by the top mod. In PieFed, communities have one or more owners, who can add and remove moderators, while all other moderators are currently on equal level. Community owners currently cannot be changed without editing this directly in the database, if you’d like to change owners in your community please reach out in !support@piefed.world.
Donations
Similar to Lemmy, PieFed development is supported by donations. You can donate to PieFed development through Patreon.
Additionally, we would appreciate donations towards the Fedihosting Foundation, the non-profit organization operating PieFed.World, Lemmy.World, and a range of other Fediverse platforms.
Problems and questions
Please report any issues and questions about PieFed.World in !support@piefed.world.
For topics about the software PieFed, please visit !piefed_meta@piefed.social.
Bugs can be reported on Codeberg.
TLDR: New platform with similar functionality available, Lemmy.World will continue to exist.
edit: reordered sections and minor wording changes
edit 2: updated community owner information
threaded - newest
Nice !
A day that will live in infamy! But in a good way. A day that will live in famy!
Uhhh, fame?
No, for all of us.
Comrade.
Faus
Famus
Haiiiiiiiii from Blahaj Piefed :3
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6391c7e1-c926-4b89-94c9-2a328b4c4a07.png">
<img alt="" src="https://files.catbox.moe/6sd3fy.png">
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/7ceed085-d7f7-42b8-9d16-facc08d7c45c.png">
Interesting that this banana isn’t animated when viewed from Lemmy.
piefed doesn’t support animated media yet, iirc it doesn’t work in posts either
Ugh…this one still frustrates me a lot. If I could wave a magic wand and have a different contributor do two things for the project, animated gifs would be one and a more consistent compact layout would be the other.
Edit: Just want to add that when I was working on the gif problem, I got it working for posts…but you have to click through into the lightbox or to the complete image url…the thumbnail isn’t animated. So, I got partway there, but ran into technical limitations of the specific python library being used. Relevant issue.
Congrats .world, here’s to many PieFed updates.
Nice!! Woo hoo!
Thanks for making this happen!
Wow. Let's gooooo!!
This... is... AWESOME! 😎 And YOU are awesome! You all freaking rock! 🤘
<img alt="img" src="https://media.tenor.com/81tG-DO8BcAAAAAM/omg-oh-my-god.gif">
This sounds like a Piefed.world announcement that a Lemmy developer would have written.
i just need a good integration between all fediverse services so people would migrate to fedi. lemmy posts with all its replies are still flooding my mastodon timeline rn
What’s casuing lemmy posts to show up for you? Followed hashtags? Some kind of federation bug?
these issues might explain
lemmy#2224 mastodon#18069
Mbin? Its largest instance iirc is fedia.io, which accesses both "Threads" (Threadiverse, so like Lemmy, PieFed, other Mbin instances, nodeBB, etc.) and "Microblog" (Mastodon).
I keep thinking that subscribing to communities in mastodon would ideally have the top level posts “reposted” by the community account and the comments on the posts in the replies to the posts. Does it work that way now or no?
still not. that’s what i really sad to see, that fediverse really sells about the connection between services (mastodon, lemmy, etc) but the implementation is still not good enough.
Welcome!
Can I log in with my Lemmy.world account
no, accounts are completely separate.
piefed does have some social auth support, which is currently also being worked on, but lemmy is not an auth provider that can be used with that. once social auth in piefed becomes more stable we will consider enabling it for supported providers.
Do any fediverse projects currently support social auth?
pixelfed supports signing in with mastodon, not sure about others
(Although adding to the other comment, since it’s federated, you can see and interact with all of Piefed’s content from Lemmy and vice versa)
Is there an old.lemmy.world theme?
not that i know of. old.lemmy.world is a whole separate user interface, but a similar look can probably be achieved with themes alone.
I need the old theming, can’t stand the new interfaces :(
So, if I understood it correctly, PieFed is simply another platform using ActivityPub, just developed by different people?
pretty much, yeah. different people, different programming languages, some feature differences, etc. but still the same content.
I see, that’s nice. I know a LOT of people were turned off by Lemmy because of the .ml devs, hopefully PieFed is more appealing to them.
Yeah, nutomic and some of their statements were a significant factor motivating my switch from Lemmy to Piefed. I’m glad we have the option here on Blahaj, and shout out to the Voyager dev for adding Piefed support!
I have not found it hard at all to just ignore the .ml devs and people in general. Why is this such an issue for literally anyone?
Some users don’t want to support a project that’s being developed by people they don’t like.
It’s kind of how some people left Reddit because of Spez, even though the amount of money Lemmy devs make doesn’t remotely compare, and the risk of enshittification/powertripping is minimal due to the whole project being open source.
I personally don’t see it as a huge issue, but I can see why it would be for someone (and I’d definitely see it differently if I was actively supporting the platform through donations).
I would argue that their authoritarian preferences get baked right into the codebase: e.g. there is a modlog but no notification of a moderation event, no modmail to contest or at least discuss such an event, no ability to DM or even be aware of which moderator performed the action (it used to say the mod name, but now it merely says "mod"), and deleted or removed posts disappear as if they never existed, ironically with the message to check back in later, as if it might come back but of course it never will.
The "rights" of someone being moderated are either to spin up their own instance or to not and just suck it up and take it, or else leave Lemmy entirely. Unsurprisingly, we see people leaving Lemmy in droves (and some, such as those who went back to Reddit, we don't see so clearly, only being able to read their complaints about Lemmy if we go to Reddit to do so).
And yes the codebase is open, but it's also complex and written in Rust. It is just easier to write an entirely new application of the ActivityPub protocol in a more comfortable language than to work with the Lemmy codebase, people such as the developers of Kbin, now Mbin, Sublinks, and PieFed seem to feel. And now these have a chance to do differently.:-)
lemmy.world has notifications for local users or users in local communities for removed content.
<img alt="img" src="https://media.makeameme.org/created/noice-very-noice-cc482f872a.jpg">
Eh, just the fact that a modlog exists (and that you can effectively see which moderator performed the action through filtering by moderator) is something I’ve never seen in any other online platform, the lack of a notification could not even be intentional (there’s even an open issue in GitHub by dessalines himself).
I’m glad the PieFed devs put the matter in their own hands since, as I said, it’s not a huge issue for me but I can understand why it would be for others.
(As in, I can understand why people would move to PieFed, Mbin, or any other fediverse alternative. I’m seriously confused at people who don’t like Lemmy for being too authoritarian-adjacent and move back to freaking Reddit)
Lemmy offers a great deal of freedom - to an instance admin, and to a lesser but still high degree a moderator (e.g. their decisions are immediate, final, and unquestioned unless overturned by a higher authority) - though a lot less to an end-user. Reddit offers things like the modmail, notifications of events, and I can only guess that people are not aware of the level of censorship that has become more common lately. Meh, but if that's how they want things, then perhaps we here would prefer that they remain over there as well:-P.
As in, perhaps they simply prefer the gilded cage to the level of effort required here to be truly free.
modmails useless, they dont reply to appeals, they just have automated messages, reddit moderation being insane is why I’m here. Made an alt, posted like 5 comments to try to gain karma and start posting on subs with requirements, 5th comment got me instabanned for ban evasion because they can detect if you comment on a sub you’re other account Is banned from, yet still show it to your alts and let you comment, they just instantly permaban all accounts you’re logged into on your phone the second you hit submit.
It’s not that common, but I’ve seen it in other forums. One example would be Somethingawful, it even has a comedic bent to it.
I am assuming the modlog concept for lemmy was taken from SA.
Huh, never actually posted there so I wasn’t aware, that’s nice.
For one thing if you Google search (we are talking mainstream normies here) for Lemmy, it pulls up Lemmy.ml as the first hit to an instance. And then that in turn, to an anonymous guest without an account, it shows posts solely from Local, rather than All. So a visitor does not see the part of the Threadiverse that is ignoring the tankies, they see the tankie home environment in full glory. There they talk about such things as beheading people who have bank accounts. Mainstream normies nope out fairly quickly... and then get mad at me for even having mentioned "Lemmy" to them in the first place.
It is easy for us who know how to ignore the propaganda, but we do quickly forget - I did for sure - just what kind of place this is, as in how it appears to others who have not put in the time we have to so heavily curate our experiences.
I am saying that we are a Nazi bar: we allow it, even while we ignore it, but it makes others uncomfortable so they leave.
There must be something messed up with your Google search cause googling Lemmy gets me Motorhead first and then either lemmy.org or lemmy.world plus some wikipedia explainers, I don’t even see a link to lemmy.ml even after 2 pages of results.
INTERESTING! Indeed I was relating a story from the past, although occasionally I kept confirming that it remained true, and today is the first day that I see that it is no longer. Like on page 1 I see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmy_(social_network), then several pages later (on mobile) I see lemmy.world, but no lemmy.ml up top, anymore.
Thank you for telling me - I'll stop telling this story or else make sure that I say that it describes the past rather than present.
I am Ukrainian. I hope the lemmy devs and all tankies get to experience russian genocidal imperialism firsthand.
Do you see why this is “literally” an issue?
I think you have misunderstood something. I do not agree with .ml people(tankies and such). And the issue is whether or not a person can just ignore their rantings and simply enjoy Lemmy.world
You most definitely can.
But that doesn’t change the fact Lemmy’s devs are a bunch of degenerate tankies.
Not all instances of Lemmy are run by tankies. Many are run by just Linux enthusiasts.
Definitely. I’ve been on the Threadiverse for a while now.
The problem is that ML is such a prominent instance and the lead devs are degenerate tankies.
And I don’t use the word degenerate lightly or as a generic insult.
Claiming (without irony) that North Korea is good place to live and their political system has been discredited by a vast capitalist conspiracy led by the BIA is a sign of true degeneracy. It doesn’t even matter if they are engaging in demagoguery or not.
My point is that .ml is becoming less and less relevant to Lemmy as a whole as time goes on and as more users join the fediverse. New instances are always good but running down perfectly good ones like Lemmy.world is very regressive and that kind of behavior is what I left reddit to get away from.
I have no issues with LW (and most other instance). I mod/curate multiple communities on LW.
I definitely do not intend to “run down” LW (if I am understanding the meaning of “run down” correctly).
Nah, that’s just going back to my original point. Why I commented in this thread at all. Some people were acting like Lemmy was dead cause .ml devs were douche bags.
I guess we are sort of on the same page then. :)
I feel like all of this federation is a double-edged sword. Constant evolution and development isn’t bad, but maintaining active users while constantly moving from one platform to another is probably going to be difficult too. I know I’m starting to get overwhelmed with it.
nobody needs to move to another platform. both lemmy and piefed show the same content, think of it more like using a different client that also has different features. both lemmy.world and piefed.world will continue to exist.
Decoupling identity from the instance is really important. It’s unfortunate that that’s not yet possible…
My identity = who I am. The instances are just services that I use. I should be able to use the same identity while accessing different services.
Yeah. Piefed seems like a better client, but I just really don’t want to make another account.
Use of PieFed is optional though, only for those who want it?
Though as app support improves, like Voyager, more people may choose it to take advantage of features that Lemmy lacks. The list is quite extensive but includes categories of communities, which are user customizable and shareable, flairs, both user and post/community, hashtags, keyword filters, true blocking of instances, and so much more. Plus being written in Python, that list will only continue to be added to as time passes, taking days to weeks to add them rather than years.
I’d rather see feature parity so that Fediverse and Threadiverse in particular won’t EEE itself.
Longer translation without commonly accepted terms:
I’d rather see Lemmy/PieFed/Kbin/Mbin have the same features overall, so that there wouldn’t be one of them trying to extend on others and then make it standard so that others die out because they lack something that is now important
That seems to me to be akin to saying that you would like everyone to use Windows? Or less insultingly, only a single distro of Linux:-). Indeed, not everything needs to be a competition, but if someone wants to write code and make a better thing, and then turn around and allow everyone else to use it for free, then I for one am all for that!
But I do see your point, e.g. in how there are all these apps, making it confusing how people will view content when they differ in even fundamental things like how images are displayed or markdown syntax. It seems just the nature of the world, even FOSS where new features could theoretically be applied to all apps, if only people weren't as lazy, as to e.g. not integrate the new freely offered feature, or to continue to use an app long after it ceases to be updated routinely by its cohort of devs.
Of course we should only use one distro of linux, as long as it’s the one I use
<img alt="img" src="https://i.imgflip.com/9zvji4.jpg">
There's two factors to this. Lemmy has been slow on developing new features. Eventually people give up despite all the promises. This sort of competition was inevitable, and two - and this cannot be changed - there's a lot of resentment and resistance to using their software for political reasons.
Fair. But standards need to be made eventually based off something, or Fediverse will fail to deliver on its promise.
At least, same things should be able to be displayed.
Piefed and Lemmy can mostly communicate with each other. In any case, you can't really compel Lemmy to update as fast as Piefed is.
That's what the FEP (Fediverse Enhancement Proposal) system is for.
Piefied is the only project among the three (Lemmy/Mbin/Piefed) to give a list of supported FEPs.
Nice! A worthy initiative
The very first page I tried going to off that landing page errored out.
what kind of error did you see and what did you click on? a link to a post?
I clicked on the “Communities” drop down and got a site wide error.
did you see an orange/white cloudflare error page or something else? i tried searching for it in our server logs but i don’t find it.
you may however have hit an outage we had for several minutes around an hour before your comment due to running out of memory on the host.
The communities tab now gives a dropdown menu that appears to be correct.
What I really want out of a federated Reddit-like service is link consolidation. I don’t want to see the same link posted on five different communities; I want those to be consolidated into one topic, with the OP text and comments from each threaded below it. It’d clean up the interface and make it work a lot more usefully.
In fact, this would make pretty much everything in the Fediverse better. Let me sort my timeline by URL or hashtag, so that I can see what is being said about a certain thing and not make the same observation or joke that a dozen others already have. Put that functionality into an RSS reader, so that I can see the discussion without leaving the article. Or, even better, merge the two into a single feed, tying threads together based on the URL that’s being shared.
Now that would be an “everything app” worth using.
EDIT: Apparently they’ve already made the first leap there! Everyone’s talking about topics and feeds, I didn’t know they’d made that advancement. Looking forward to trying it out.
Piefed solves that issue: piefed.zip/post/100161
All comments from 5 crossposts in a single view
A few other options
.
Oh, fascinating! I’m going to have to take a look. Everyone’s talking about topics and feeds, I didn’t know they’d made that advancement.
It's pretty critical to topic feeds. The app I'm using doesn't understand the link consolidation thing that Piefed offers, so I'll see 5 of the same post all together in it. Really I just need to start using a PWA instead of the app until Piefed has better app support.
As somebody that has done a lot of recent work on the UI for piefed, I have tried to make sure that it works even at quite small screen sizes. I actually just submitted a couple commits in the past couple hours to make the navbar across the top of communities/feeds/topics flow smoother across different screen sizes. The PWA is so far my preferred way to use piefed.
There is a Thunder fork (not main code last I checked), and experimental support from Voyager and Interstellar, but yeah feature development is so fast that the webpage may be best until more people take the time to add each new feature to each of those apps.
Interstellar is what I'm using. Generally usuable, but certainly doesn't understand the things that make PieFed special. With so many of the major Lemmy instances spooling up secondary piefed instances, it means it is probably only a matter of time before this issue is resolved.
I would hope so, and yeah when I tried Interstellar with PieFed (admittedly quite awhile ago, and since then I've forgotten how to make it connect again) the button placements and such were... far less than ideal, having been designed for Mbin. Also I recall something along the lines of when you switch between looking at a Lemmy vs. a PieFed instance you had to entirely delete all of your app data in order to get it to connect (I submitted a bug report to the dev; well, at least I told them here in the Threadiverse so they know and probably fixed that one by now).
But... I am sure that developing an app is not easy. Which makes me wonder: even when the likes of Thunder and Voyager gain full support for using PieFed the same as Lemmy, will they continue forward and add things such as user & post (community) flairs? And Topics / Feeds? And as you said here the conjoined comments.
And even if the answer was yes, what about the next feature to come along, and the next?
But yeah, with all the major shift to PieFed now, and the most-used apps adding support, it seems only a matter of time before not only the forward development but the pace of that too quickens:-).
Good to know. I want to use webapps rather than native apps as much as possible anyway, so this is probably good.
Enjoy!
also, piefed.blahaj.zone
And you sold me.
Also
https://quokk.au - if you want a smaller community.
When I click your first link all I get is “No Comments”.
I just checked, it works on my side.
Does this one work? piefed.world/post/253374#post_replies
Works in the browser, although it takes a long time to load. It does not work from within “connect”, perhaps because of the long delay.
That is amazing!
Doesn’t PieFed already do this?
Apparently! Everyone’s talking about topics and feeds, I didn’t know they’d made that advancement. Gonna check it out!
Reddit could have done this too, but never did. At least to my knowledge.
There must be a reason.
I haven’t been there in years but there used to be a “related discussions” link that would show you a list of other places a link was posted.
Lemmy has that too (depending which app/frontend you use)
On Reddit, I kinda get it. You wouldn’t want to connect the same link across (for instance) /r/antiwork and /r/conservative; the crosstalk there would get horrifyingly bad. But on a federated platform, when you could have multiple /c/antiworks on different instances, it fragments the conversation.
Reddit sorta half did it with the “other discussions” or duplicate tab.
As an example,
old.reddit.com/…/a_clicktocancel_rule_intended_to…
I never saw any apps implement it, but it does look like it was part of the API, but maybe it wasn’t robust enough.
I also know at one point, and possibly still, is that it lacked URL normalization. So for example, exanple.com/headline and example.com/headline#topstory would be treated as two different articles.
Similarly youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ and youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
Would be treated as separate articles.
These are all fixable problems, but require work.
Oh, interesting. I honestly just glazed over that every time, but you’re right that that’s a step in the right direction. What I’d really like is for the instance to go the next step further and merge the conversations visually.
So in my mind, at the top of any individual post you’d see the thumbnail and the link title; and then underneath that, as a special-looking top-level comment, it would show the post title and OP text for each incarnation of the post across various instances and communities. The replies to those individual posts are then all rolled up under their top-level comment.
You could roll Mastodon (and other Fediverse) posts in there, too; they would just appear as their own top-level comment, just like replying to Lemmy posts on Mastodon works currently.
That’s exactly what piefed does actually.
I’m really excited to get time to check it out. Maybe this weekend.
Mbin has a form of this too. They're still treated as separate posts, but visually grouped together and minimized.
I have a novice question that wasn’t addressed in the FAQ: is piefed.world associated with/run by the same people/computers as lemmy.world? Or are they unrelated?
First paragraph of the post states:
I dunno how I missed that. Thank you! I will be avoiding this community then, unfortunately :(
Why, have they done something wrong?
Some people seem to think that, usually people who do not research things for themselves.
Separately it gets a bit complicated bc it really is healthier for people to be distributed more across a network as opposed to all being on the same node.
Both of these groups push for people to consider leaving lemmy.world, but for entirely different underlying reasons.
I don't know the details of all decisions lemmy.world instance admins have made, but it seems to me that the #1 instance will always generate the most animosity because it's far more likely than any other instance to find itself in situations where they're pressed to make decisions by their userbase.
Servers with 20% of the users and 10% of the communities, with only like a dozen 'active' communities will simply hardly ever be in that position and generate no meaningful pushback so they'll always look good by comparison. Additionally, even lemmy.world community mods can generate hostility based on decisions they made despite them having nothing to do with the instance management - and since lemmy.world dominates, you're much more likely to be posting in a lemmy.world community.
This is definitely true. Also some instances like to push the boundaries, while others such as Lemmy.world prefer to "toe the line". e.g. lemm.ee was notorious for not wanting to defederate with anything unless it was absolutely necessary (like for CSAM, but not for like trolling), a decision which kept burning out all the mods over and over and over and over again, thereby leaving it up to the admins to control that chaos, who likewise got burnt out again and again until... the instance itself finally gave up and closed its doors. But not before putting out numerous calls to have someone, ANYONE step in and actually lift a finger to help? No? Okay then... well good bye and good luck I suppose. Hexbear likewise has somewhat imploded multiple times over the course of its existence, due to "drama" among its internal controlling team. Each instance does as it chooses and Lemmy.World chooses to toe the line and steer clear of illegal content, leaving people free to steer clear of it in return, if that is what they want.
One incident I am aware of wrt to Lemmy.World was when the infamous Luigi incident happened late in 2024 in the USA, the mods decided to pause discussion as to whether outright, literal and irl murder should be allowed, and things related to that such as "jury nullification". Keep in mind that the entire instance could theoretically have been shut down if the admins - who unlike the rest of us have their irl names and addresses exposed to the legal authorities - had been found legally liable under whatever laws in whatever countries around the world. Faced with this ENORMOUS amount of pressure, not merely theoretical but again threatening the very existence of the instance itself, the admins decided to pause discussions of this matter... for less than a week iirc while they looked into their legal standing. And then they lifted the ban and allowed those discussions (again iirc, though it's been a minute). But many people about lost their minds that they had to wait a few days to do as they wished.
Tbf that probably had to do more with preexisting chaffing under the dominance of Lemmy.World that while today makes up only ~40% of the Threadiverse, at one point dominated it at ~80%, plus also a pattern of similar events than the singular one I described there (e.g. its decision to defederate from hexbear.net). But it does illustrate how Lemmy.World has to walk that line between allowing freedom to have discussions while maintaining a space to even be able to continue to have those discussions on the open clear internet.
I note the high level of irony that many people left Lemmy.World to the more "open" lemm.ee, which then closed its doors because people refused to volunteer to help clean up the toxic filth that they then generated. Lemmy - as a part of the real world - really can be quite an unwelcoming place. Like if you want to speak, then make your own instance and get to it, but if you want to go into someone else's house and speak... well then you have to play by their rules, how is that not understandable?
That particular jury nullification decision btw is described in many places but one that I know of is https://sh.itjust.works/post/29086287 , and in general that community !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com is just a fantastic one run by a great mod who somehow manages to avoid the temptation to become a power-tripping bastard himself as he runs that instance and community that helps keep the Threadiverse in check by allowing people to air out their dirty laundry in full view for all to see:-).
They ban discussion of all kinds of normal things, such as Luigi Mangione.
Sure, it’s not like there’s a !luigimangione@lemmy.world community or a fuckton of related posts in other ones with no action taken whatsoever.
Yes, they relented on that one after tons of ridicule. I used it as an example because that pattern just keeps happening over and over.
Except even that never happened and it was just overcautious mods dealing with vague ToS. I’m pretty sure the only thing the admins did in that whole issue was make the ToS more clear.
I’d like to see what do you mean about it happening “over and over”.
Check out !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Pretty much every .world post I see is people complaining about mods, aka not “the people who run lemmy.world”. I had to go back like 4 months to find anything about admins, and tbh it’s kind of understandable.
How can I subscribe to piefed.world users and communities etc from my lemmy.world account?
lemmy doesn’t support subscribing to users, but you can subscribe to communities the same way you’d subscribe to other communities from other instances.
Question: is PieFed the new kid on the block? Or has it been around for just as long as Lemmy or even longer?
I just love to see these platforms competing whilst working together, in the sense of adding to eachother, making the entire thing bigger and bigger. I’ve known for a long time that this is possible, but to see it happen is beautiful. Surely this allows for way more innovation and customization than closed source apps could ever realize. It makes me confident that the Fediverse will flourish, more than it already is.
piefed is a fair bit younger, the first commitin the git repo was on Fri Jul 28 02:07:44 2023 +0000. it has only in recent months started really picking up some traction with several lemmy instances already creating piefed instances as well.
What’s a piefed? Is that a particular topic?
Just another way of entering these federated online spaces
it’s the software, similar to how you’re using lemmy right now
Is there any plans for yunohost integration?
I’d love to self host piefed just so I can munge my peertube and threadiverse feeds.
Relevant issue: codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/issues/252
I have never used yunohost before, but ldap was just recently integrated into piefed (that’s what chat.piefed.social uses for instance). So the main blocker from that issue seems resolved.
100th comment :)
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f302a646-5879-4062-9dea-a65818ede51e.gif">
register form tripped me up. 3rd time worked; piefed.world/u/m3t00
Yea, had to go to the laptop to do it. Phone wouldn’t let me.
desktop website. confusing because had to actually read to figure out what the boxes were for. lol my reading skills have declined
I feel that!
like the organization better so far. multi group feeds is nice;
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/aea2a915-1891-4273-bb09-9b99081a69e2.png">
PieFed private voting is just sad as well as toxic. Inevitably PieFed instances will be abused to facilitate manufactured downvotes from instances due to their inherent anonymity. We are already blind enough online, not being able to see upvotes or downvotes does nothing. Being able to go to mbin and see the way people vote hasn’t resulted in some huge controversy. Even the most recent controversy involved admins shouting brigade due to downvotes they didn’t like, and PieFed does nothing to prevent it.
I’m not saying people wouldn’t react to being able to see who downvoted or upvoted them, but I would liken it to a toddler phase getting used to socialization. Once people get acclimated to it, it essentially adds transparency that can explain trends, reveal stalking and remove suspicions. Without it, people just get fed up and make their own assumptions, which just feeds toxicity and division without any real awareness.
The fediverse is prone to manipulation, and PieFed makes it more so with this change without really providing a reason except that people feel uncomfortable standing behind their downvotes. Downvotes (or upvotes) from the people who can’t stand behind them shouldn’t count. The whole reputation system also sounds a bit like a love letter to reddit karmawhores, and the whole design seems to be designed to take away power from users and move it to particular instances admins to curate content through things like visibility.
as explained in this post, the original implementation of “private voting” has already been replaced with non-federated voting, which addresses the abuse concerns, as it’s then limited to just the instance the votes are cast on.
Thanks for the correction, I was going off of the FAQ page, join.piefed.social/features/, that had a post to a thread that has not been updated.
So in that regard, is it what lemmy instances already do when they don’t want instances like mbin to see downvotes? Or does it completely eliminate federation of votes and only shows tallies from the host instance? Either way, the decision is taken from the user and basically undoes the federated aspect of the platform for a dubious concern. At the very least, it should be up to the user.
lemmy currently doesn’t have granular federation controls. the only option right now is to defederate from mbin instances, but other instances might still announce your users’ votes to mbin instances. the more hacky way would be to also block federation related http requests from mbin instances to prevent them from retrieving user profiles, which is probably the most effective method that could be used.
piefeds non-federated votes are a user setting for the default value and users have the option for each vote whether it should be federated. see also piefed.social/post/982478
Congratulations Ruud & Rest - everyone at the foundation really, it’s just fun to say Ruud & Rest! I’m excited to see how this will develop. PieFed does have a lot of features already, that I do miss for Lemmy, and the communication from the main dev has been great so far. (An opportunity to post links to his PeerTube channel, as well as his Liberapay profile).
A great addition to the “Threadiverse” in particular, and the larger Fediverse!
I had sadly the opposite experience as a developer. He bends the rules, the code of conduct to his will so that he stays in the “right”.
He disregards any improvements to the codes style ( formatting, styling, linting ) and when you point that out you just get the lemmy devs treatment. I mentioned, the code is a mess. He went on rampage declining any attempts to “untangle” or format the code. And he simply said “Go away and dont come back”.
One example: codeberg.org/…/b341c2d4adf40147c34b100fbace886862…
Ah, I am sad to hear that. And sorry that has been your experience.
As only an amateur coder, I can’t weigh in how serious the issue is, but I’m gonna take your word for it, without any other person involved adding input. I hope it’ll end up in a state, where the project can still sustain its growth in both features and users.
I hope that too for Piefed. But if he continues his disregard of developer. He should have kept it close source.
This is all sour grapes.
I've read your interaction with him, and, frankly, if I were moderating a community where you incessantly carried on over insignificant details, continuing to question things after you got your answer (sea lioning), insisting on focusing on nothing, and never ever stopping, I'd block you too, and I've only blocked 2 people in my entire life as a mod.
Now you're in here trying to malign him, for revenge, for shutting you down so he could get work done and he can focus on important work instead of debating you over never-ending trivial topics.
He is the opposite of the image you are trying to give him.
I mean i gave him the changes to his feet and he kicked them away. I know it were small changes but if i have to argue around for 4-5 session to implement basic formatting ( a one and done thing ). I would blick him too.
My understanding is that your one PR broke logins, and it took maybe 5 days for someone else to fix the code? Maybe your changes that were kicked away just weren't so good after all, or trusted?
Ahh yes, that is another risk factor of him. He never tests it. I guess he always goes for guts instincts. ( As there is no CI tests or any type hints ).
And again we speak of FORMATTING pr’s those risky formatting pr’s i guess he tested that? and somehow found that it didnt worked?
Just to be clear, i fixed a lot of bugs already too. E.g. Mastodon login never even worked ONCE, i implemented that to the end.
With his merge first fix later attitude, for little bit more established servers its killing argument: Oh yeah feature X broke because no one tested it before.
My PRs were in good faith. I was ok with constructive feedback ( e.g. change this, change that ) but dismissing ones PR MULTIPLE times. With almost none real reason other than “Opiniated Formatting” ( where none exists )
Got any links where we can see this happening? (I’m just curious - though maybe it’s easy to look up on Codeberg…)
For people interested: chat.piefed.social/#narrow/channel/4-developers/t…
Uuuh, what is that example supposed to show me exactly? That the chat got moved to a new one?
No the other part the moving of the chat is a little bit controversial too. But that is ok. The other change in that commit
Welp, I tried. Doesn’t work with Firefox relay masked email addresses. Not giving them a real email, so no thanks.
I think it depends on the Piefed instance; it's up to the Admin.
It should work on, for example, feddit.online. If not, something is broken.
I just used the link in this post.
That link is for Piefed.world; run by the same team that run Lemmy.world
There are other piefed servers which may have different email requirements. But the most likely reason Piefed.world requires real emails is to prevent bots making fake accounts and also reduce the risk of bad actors making numerous accounts to avoid bans. As it’s hard to get multiple real emails it makes it hard to make multiple anonymous accounts which is unfortunately a tactic of trolls.
You can of course create a dedicated “private” email account on an official service and use that to sign up if you’re worried about sharing your primary email account. A lot of people do this online to have a legitimate email but essentially in it’s own silo separate from other personal emails.
Likely, then, that lemmy.world has the same restriction.
That must be new then.
We removed firefox relay for now. You can retry now.
Thanks, but now I’m getting 504s once I click submit.
Hmm thats then a issue with piefed. Is there any message shown?
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a9bebde1-f307-4786-b757-8d68c049c5cf.jpeg">
Thanks a bunch! I retried it today and it worked great!
Ok great!
Ah shiet. I have to block the tankie stuff all over again. Well, better get to it!
Fantastic
I’m… not moving again.