so... dubvee and dubvee tesseract shut down.
from Tweekerz@sh.itjust.works to fediverse@lemmy.world on 16 Jul 03:00
https://sh.itjust.works/post/42231604
from Tweekerz@sh.itjust.works to fediverse@lemmy.world on 16 Jul 03:00
https://sh.itjust.works/post/42231604
i know you’ve all heard it before, but i didn’t catch up, i was honestly a bit surprised when i was browsing and tesseract on dubvee shut down.
threaded - newest
Its a shame, it was one of the best clients. And admiral Patrick was very helpful to all admins, too ☹️
agreed, i love tesseract
as a dev sure. as an admin he had a recent kerfuffle on news, etc, with bans and involvement in some drama around them.
Guy instance banned a bunch of people simply for speaking up in favor of Luigi, before it got clear how many supporters there were. Admin-wise, some questionable decisions. Still he did a lot of good for Lemmy. Shame to lose him.
oh did not know abt those bans. he got me when I posted intolerance of nazis because I was “dehumanizing” them. but yeah. as a dev good! administration was just too much for him.
Was he not aware of the paradox of tolerance and the Nazi bar parable?
Afaik he tolerated no support for calls for violence whatsoever on his instance. Which is his freedom to do as his line of moderating, but obviously brought him into conflict with the beliefs of many on Lemmy
And I so fully support banning calls for violence. in my example (anecdotally) there was no violence just uncomfortable rhetoric. (also he was a mod of news on .world at the time - not just his instance but maybe that’s how it works here? not fully sure.)
If you’re advocating violence against people you arbitrarily deem nazis it doesn’t make you a good guy and you’re likely breaking plenty of laws regardless of jurisdiction. I’m seeing liberals advocating violence against people voting for Trump, that’s pretty dehumanising.
A) I never advocated violence. I support a prohibition on such actions.
B) I did not arbitrarily label anyone anything. The subjects themselves did it. I merely used the labels they give themselves in my commentary about the kinds of people they are.
C) I am in no way, shape, or form a liberal.
I didn’t have to scroll that far lol
Get educated on how nazis dehumanised people so that it would make violence possible later before you go around calling people nazis. For a nazi hunter you seem to know little about nazism, or pretend not to because you’re just out for revenge.
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Specifically I was talking about how helpful he was to other admins, he made out lives a lot easier. Can’t comment on dubvee moderation
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/565087e8-57ad-4279-859f-88602b36bacd.png">
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/66f80c8b-f87f-49a3-9899-399caf10f767.png">
Yeah, not so nice for just downvoting a post of his though. Fediverse is better off without that kind of toxic behaviour.
Why would you downvote that post though?
The post was fine, the premise is wrong about the fediverse. That’s why I downvoted and didn’t interact further.
Hm, I see. Fair, to be honest.
What did you interpret the premise to be? I read the post when it was up, and it read to me like OP was saying essentially that too many toxic users and not enough admins willing to stand up to them make the overall experience not fun.
EDIT: Which is accurate in my mind at least when it comes to Lemmy
The whole notion that the fediverse is a failure. Ptz is entitled to his opinion, but he couldn’t be serious that everyone would hold that inflammatory opinion as well. I still stand by my opinion that the fediverse is better off without toxic admins like this.
He said “this” experiment, not “the fediverse” which I interpreted to mean his instance (or perhaps Lemmy).
That said, I’m honestly curious what do you care about his “toxicty” if he’s not an admin of your instance? You don’t seriously believe you have a right to dictate what he does with his own hardware do you?
Better phrasing would be “this experiment within the fediverse”. His phrasing still comes across as the fediverse (as an experiment) being a failure to me. I’ve not seen fediverse used as an adjective before.
It’s the same reason I’m not on .ml and your instance (I saw how they ran things over on reddit) and try to limit interactions on the instances that are notorious for their heavy handed moderation. He can do whatever he wants, but so can I within the limits of the sh.itjust.works instance or even spinning up my own. That’s the reason I think he got butthurt. He got called out for how he ran things in front of the fediverse, didn’t like it, got mad, took his ball and went home and likely banned me and 5 other guys for his bad phrasing at best or his opinion at worst. He’s free to do that and I believe that the fedivdrse is better for it.
Eh, I think you’re projecting. He literally owned his instance. He was playing with his own ball at his own house and you got “butthurt” because he didn’t want to play with you.
It’s no secret that a lot of people are attracted to Lemmy because they felt Reddit mods were too overbearing, but some of us like Lemmy because we didn’t think Reddit mods were doing enough about the overbearing users.
Anyone banning for downvoting is incredibly petty or thin skinned, just my observation. If it wasn’t for the instance shutting down, it would have made a good post on yptb. Reading other comment threads on this post support the thin skinned theory imho. I just happened to be browsing all when I found the post. Looking at my subs, I wasn’t subscribed to any community there.
I won’t forget the mods of the star trek subreddit banning people for just criticizing Disco and Picard not for being woke or whatever other conservative dog whistles at the time, but for legitimate reasons. That’s the behavior I avoid. I don’t need a mod to protect me from differing opinions. It’s the internet ffs. Then there was the crusade against all the “_trek” subreddits. Claiming harassment to get Reddit to shut them down so that no one with differing opinions about the shows could have a community was absolutely inexcusable. That’s why I avoid your instance like the plague.
It’s also the best part of Lemmy and fediverse on the whole and what we agree on. No one person can control everything.
What about in the context of mass-downvoters? I can't speak for Dubvee, but mass-downvoters do exist - and they can be corrosive for smaller communities trying to grow, as early downvotes of threads can effectively kill them. These are accounts that seem to primarily downvote and don't actually interact on-site, and have no real pattern to it. This kind of response has little to do with sensitivity.
In this instance there were 6 downvotes to 83 upvotes for over 93% positive rate in 3 days on an announcement community for an instance. If 6 is mass downvotes, then I suspect your are looking for any excuse to justify toxic moderation.
Yeah, I am just speaking as a general principle - not whatever happened here. Mass downvoting isn't at all observed like that anyway. It's the behaviour from some individual accounts that repeatedly downvote different threads from a specific community. So you'd be looking at habits across threads.
If in my community (for instance) someone was to come in and just downvote the entire first page, I'd probably ban them because that would just be a crude attempt to target it. And again: downvoting like that is worse for smaller communities trying to grow.
Doesn’t seem to be stopping you from trying!
Yeah I remember that in the YPTB room yesterday. Normally I’d be harsh on this stuff but it’s the end of the instance anyway, we’d be wasting our breaths. Also, I was talking about how helpful he was to other admins, idk if he is a PTB in his own spaces :p
Yeah, that’s fair. I only see the interaction put in front of me, what’s been posted, and anything I might catch in certain matrix channels. The only known interaction I had with PTZ directly was a ban and him giving me the finger.
Tesseract is open source so perhaps not all is entirely lost, but yes situation is quite unfortunate. I’m not sure I can even say surprising though, considering ptz was raising flags nearly a year ago regarding admin tooling and general community behavior.
Tesseract was functional but not as beautiful as Photon. I think I’ll stick with Photon.
Just wish that Photon had the same features as Tesseract. I do think Photon looks better but Tesseract is way more functional. It has Fediseer integration, has MBFC integration, and also has better options for user management.
Tesseract was the only client that had an in-community search input, compared to all the other clients that require re-entering the community name. That shows how functional it was to me.
I’m looking for third-party instances right now (that’s how I ended up on this post), found one so far (but outdated) : lemmy.max-p.me
EDIT : found others
Dubvee was mass banning users for harmless comments on comms on other instances that had nothing to do with their instance. It all seemed very strange to me, what the point of all that was.
Essentially, if you were a user on his instance he assumed you were there because you wanted his curated version of the fediverse. So his instance ban list got treated like his own personal block list.
If that is stated somewhere openly before signing up, I honestly see nothing wrong with it. I wouldn’t sign up there, but if there are any tangible rules associated with what is banned and what is not, and you can check those, fine.
If its erratic banning and random rules not written down, then eh, bad stuff.
It definitely was stated yes. I don't want to try to search for it now that dubvee.org is down, but fwiw I definitely recall seeing multiple posts by him stating exactly that, how he wanted to replicate "Beehaw" behavior.
Edit: e.g. a link I shared with someone earlier, not that it works anymore but if it helps: https://dubvee.org/post/dubvee.org/1516426 .
Sounds like a major perk of that instance to me.
Mass banning people for harmless comments that have nothing to do with your instance is a major perk for sure. 👍🏻
I’m glad we agree.
They’re certainly not the only instance that engages in such classy activities
Nope. Seriously, no idea what you’re taking about.
I made a post about it a few days ago
Essentially, the guy who makes Tesseract, an open-source Lemmy frontend, burned out and discontinued it and closed his instance.
Thanks!
This sucks, I hope someone forks it before it breaks. Either that or hopefully most of its nice features get ported/added to Photon. So mods don’t have to end up living without them.