What if we called instances providers?
from Irelephant@lemm.ee to fediverse@lemmy.world on 07 Mar 16:32
https://lemm.ee/post/57562860
from Irelephant@lemm.ee to fediverse@lemmy.world on 07 Mar 16:32
https://lemm.ee/post/57562860
It would tie in better with the email analogy, and it could show that they all just provide access to the same network.
What do you think?
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I was thinking the same. Provider is easier to understand, and used in daily life contexts.
How would the word be used in our context? The Fediverse provider?
But I think I associate the word with money related activities and I'm not a fan of that.
I would think the jargon would be “I chose fedia.io as my Lemmy provider,” or similar for other federated platforms.
Oh god no. That's like "I chose Burger King as my McDonald's provider."
But Burger King and McDonalds are the same type of entities.
Fedia.io and Lemmy are different. Your example would be “Lemmy as a Piefed provider”, or “Feddit.org as a feddit.uk provider”
Yeah it's even worse than that.
fedia.io is a specific "provider" in this context. fedia.io runs on mbin. Lemmy is analogous to mbin. Many "providers" run on lemmy: lemmy.world, lemmy.dbzer0.com, lemmy.wtf, etc.
What is being provided is fediverse access. "Fediverse" is not my mostest favorite term, but it's the one that's most accurate.
There’s a discussion on !fedibridge@lemmy.dbzer0.com about a name for Lemmy/Mbin/Piefed, as they are actually compatible. Mastodon and the others always feels a bit finicky. Feel free to contribute.
Fine, “I choose Burger King as my hamburger provider but I expect to be able to access a Big Mac from Burger King unless they are defederated.”
Ok, have it your way then
“I use Vodafone as my phone provider. Can’t call people in North Korea because they cut that connection. I might have to choose another provider that still allows me to call there”.
Not really. In that metaphor it’s more like, “I chose the McDonald’s down at the corner to get my Big Mac instead of the one across town.”
“I can get a Whopper from McDonald’s and I don’t have to see any crap from Papa John’s because McDonalds is defederated from them.”
Provider doesn’t make any sense when the content is coming from other places.
I mean, it’s not like that at all, but it’s ok to not care for it still. Lemmy is a federated platform, just like Pixelfed is, and Mastodon, etc. Those would be the providers in the example from before.
Edit to add: Literally every time the word “instance” comes up in the manner noted above, it’s woth regard to a Lemmy instance, or a Mastodon instance, and rarely if ever have I noticed a reference to a “fediverse instance”. I have no clue where your comparison comes from.
Lemmy is a server application. Mastodon is a server application. Pixelfed is a server application.
I don't use Lemmy. Never have. And yet here I am.
“I recommend feddit.uk as a Lemmy provider for people living in the UK”
“Feddit.org is a good provider for German speakers”
That’s a good thing. It costs money to provide services to people. The Fediverse is no different.
Provider has the connotation of being a paid provider for services. While it’s a technically accurate analogy, I prefer the more abstract comparison of considering the fediverse a meeting place rather than a paid service since it’s a mostly volunteer and self hosted network compared to email.
I disagree. Gmail is my email provider. I don’t pay for it. (Yeah I know they are taking ad revenue.)
Instance is unnecessary jargon.
Indeed, but unfortunately there’s no word for a volunteer provider as far as I know.
Yes, thats what I was thinking.
I was thinking about other decentralised networks people may use, and they all seem to use the word “provider”:
That’s what resonates for me.
We don’t have email
instances, and email providers similarly block un-desired content, but there’s not a big fuss about missing out on specific types of spam. Lol.Similarly Internet service providers actually also block big blocks of malware providing domains, and accidentally sometimes block some great piracy resources. People who care learn to use a VPN or switch providers. Everyone else doesn’t have to think about it.
I’ll argue that The Fediverse also carries extremely similar switching cost as an email or Internet provider. For an average user, “Let folks you care to inform know where you moved, and maybe copy over some favorite bookmarks.”
Sure, different providers do try to bring different lenses on the same federated content, but most people aren’t served well by thinking about it on day one.
I think shifting to the term
provideris a lot more honest to the user about what to expect.I agree, let’s make it more friendly to people wanting to start a fediverse provider as a business so a big company can’t come in and gobble up everyone
I think instance is okay as a term, but defining it as a provider could be helpful. I don’t think the fediverse is that complicated anyway, it could be summarized in a paragraph for a baby
would confuse me because when I hear “provider” I think ISP before anything else
I mean, sure, but the internet is a decentralised network! So is lemmy.
no, it’s a decentralised service on the decentralized internet
Internet provider.
Lemmy provider.
E-mail provider
I just say server hosts
usually when I tell someone what an instance is, I throw a few synonyms in there
I feel like just saying “instance/proxy” can help, providers sounds good too, also gateways, servers, relays…
I made an old discussion about this actually
programming.dev/post/3658116
programming.dev/post/3658268
Hey, someone had the same thought as me! programming.dev/post/3658268/3322305
I’m afraid that when I say „my Lemmy provider” people will think I’m referring to my drug dealer.
“Psst… Hey, you. Wanna buy some SoMe?”
Lemmy and Molly (foss) are the most addictive. 🤣🤣
That’s fantastic.
Provideravoids the mostly baseless FOMO (fear of missing out) thatinstancecan invoke.I think
providermore clearly communicates that the majority of the desirable content is going to be available the same through anyprovider.I like server better
FSP = Fediverse Service Provider
That doesn’t sound too bad ngl.
I wouldn’t even mention anything about servers or how it works, since most anyone I would even tell about Lemmy won’t understand the technical details, nor would they care. It would only confuse them and push them away.
Just hook them up with an instance they will fit into, and have them use the site. I really think that a lot of the other tech nerds here are overthinking it and trying to get non-tech minded people to switch by giving them technical details that do more harm and cause more confusion than simply having them use the site without knowing jack shit about it other than “it’s like Reddit but not shitty.”
That’s really all you gotta tell most people; “it’s like Reddit (or Twitter if you’re trying to talk up Mastodon), but not shitty.”
Sure, but then questions like “why do these subreddits have an @ symbol?” happen, or the dreaded default “local” sort causes problems.
I use this approach sometimes and it really works. Provided it’s the erm… simple type of crowd that doesn’t ask too many questions lol. They’ll wander around and figure it out. If they do, congratulations😂
I like it. The reasoning’s good.
I hate the term “instance”. It’s hopelessly geeky (it derives from object-oriented programming). It brings to mind nerds and gamers in basements.
I thought it was just an instance of the lemmy software, for example?
en.wikipedia.org/…/Instance_(computer_science)
Yes, I know what an instance is, but I never thought that was what people meant.
Which is pretty much the main users of Lemmy lol
Sure, go ahead. Technically it's not 100% correct. I mean lemm.ee wouldn't be your provider, it'd be the people operating the server who provide the service to you... But I think it's close enough. Only issue I can see is the term "provider" usually being used with commercial services. Like a cellphone provider or ISP. So I'm not sure if people start to think this costs $10 a month or something and is run by for-profit businesses... But we also use the word "provider" for free things, so I'm not entirely sure about that. But generally speaking I think we use different terminology because we don't think of the Fediverse as a product.
Servers are a better word for it imo. It is what it actually is and average people already understand servers from discord
Discord servers are just groups. Lemmy “instances” are actual separate instances of Lemmy communicating.
I know. What im saying is the word server isnt too technical and is both easier to understand and technically correct
Agreed. When I explain Lemmy to my friends I describe instances as “servers.”
“Average people” don’t even know what Discord is
As a term, 'instance' is already baked into code, databases, and APIs.
If I wanted to use an API to block 'lemmy.world', for example, I'd call 'site/block' with the relevant 'instance_id'. That's already 2 different terms for the same thing ('site' and 'instance'), which isn't great, but adding 'provider' into the mix means you're now saying "if you want to block a 'provider', use the 'site' endpoint with the ID for the 'instance'", which is arguably worse.
Call them States … like states within a federation.
It’s probably too late for that now, but I do think that’s a better name
People can perfectly understand terms like instance or server...if they are explained to them.
They are also accustomed to concepts like social media and social network that can also be used to explain the Fediverse. Each server is its own social media platforms interacting with eachother through a distributed social network.
But, I actually think the Fediverse require an intermediate point between social media and social network, or something above it.
If the Fediverse (including in this case all decentralised protocols like ActivityPub, Zot/Nomad, Diaspora, Ostatus, AT Proto, etc) is a Social network and each particular instance it's own social media platforms that interact within the network, the software they run and the community they form part of within the wider fediverse is an intermediate stage between social medium and social network.
Now, if each server/instance are social media platforms and the software they run are the social network; the protocol or protocol they use is/are a network of networks and the Fediverse a network of networks of networks of social media platforms.
Go ahead. Try to force that upon Friendica that has called its instances “nodes” for almost 15 years now.
Or Hubzilla that not only calls them “hubs” but also resists any and all cultural or technological influences from anything that wasn’t created by Mike Macgirvin.
Also <insert Morpheus here> what if I told you that (streams) and Forte call them “communities”? You know, like Lemmy’s and PieFed’s “subreddits”?
lemm.ee/post/57060912