hexbear.net comically loses its domain name
from splinter@hilariouschaos.com to fediverse@lemmy.world on 11 Feb 20:22
https://hilariouschaos.com/post/1077714
from splinter@hilariouschaos.com to fediverse@lemmy.world on 11 Feb 20:22
https://hilariouschaos.com/post/1077714
cross-posted from: hilariouschaos.com/post/1077711
Edit: chapo.chat for the live action drama, sort by new posts.
Edit edit: chapo.chat/post/4468531
Welp
threaded - newest
Could not happen to a nicer bunch.
Truly salt of the earth
What’s the story with this place?
cunts, tale as old as time
When I accidentally interacted with one of their communities, it basically felt like a tankie 4chan. After that I just banned the entire instance.
Lemmy, in general, is left leaning with the lead dev and “main” instance being unabashedly tankies.
Hexbear is the big instance of people who are so fucked they tend to get banned even from there. The ml crowd is generally still worth talking to. Whereas the hexbear crowd immediately jump to harassment the moment they decide you failed a purity test because you advocated for a social program rather than insisting the entire system needs to be burned down and a managed economy run by putin put in its place.
Needless to say: Anyone who spends enough time “on lemmy” is either on an instance that banned hexbear or muted them themselves.
Appreciate the explanation. I’ve seen some remarks about the instance in passing, I’ve just never paid close enough attention to how communities have interacted with each other in the past.
No, no. They’re a group of posters so awful they got banned from Reddit.
And let’s be honest, you can be pretty much the worst person on earth and survive in your own little bubble on Reddit, but, for whatever reason, they couldn’t.
Yeah…
Spend some time in the “I hate reddit and am glad I am never going back but do you think reddit still thinks about me and hey, can I take a picture of your penis and send it to show reddit that my new boyfriend is massive?” communities. LOTS of the folk around here have those “I was banned for absolutely nothing” mentalities.
And it shows with how fast people are to “clown on” folk with just blatant insults.
Those folk aren’t at all exclusive to hexbear.
I feel attacked lmao, reddit automoda/policy is abusive now, I commented on a front page post with an alt and it permbanned 3 of my 10 year old accounts instantly no appeal. I kinda do like that they forced me to give lemmy a second look.
The mods just ban ppl willy nilly, how am i supposed to keep track of what banned me, if they have detection tools they should be able to auto ban my alts or hide those subs from my view or better yet not even let me comment on them, instead they asssume evasion and perm ban your ip.
My revenge was deleting every helpful post/comment I had (I got lazy 5 minutes in kinda sucks that there is no way to delete your post history once reddit bans you, you can delete your account but posts and commentd stay up, the only way to remove them is to edit them)
Oh, maybe I wasn’t clear: this isn’t the usual mods doing mods, they were such bad posters the admins banned their entire sub.
Getting banned from a subreddit is easy, getting the admins to kick you, your friends, and your community off the site requires exquisite and well-developed shitposting skills beyond those of most mortals.
I leave em, it’s fun to watch them go and post their stickers, it’s almost like twitch chat
they were originally refugees from the reddit ban of r/chapotraphouse (which, while cringy, was not nearly as bad as r/the_donald that got banned in the same wave. but the reddit admins had a thing for being “fair and balanced”)
I’m not familiar with the first subreddit, what was that about?
Hex, .ml and grad are part of the Tankie Triad. Tankies are authoritarians and often hard to tell apart from far right nutjobs
Oh right. When I first heard about Lemmy, I tried to join .ml because it was the first instance I was made aware of. I think it was being rate limited at the time due to that whole reddit exodus thing, and I wasn’t able to get through, but. .world let me sign up so here I am.
I’d like to think that members of a given instance have their own opinions. It’s sad to hear about how territorial lemmy is.
Not really territorial, more… despises authoritarianism in all its forms lol.
While I’m sure there are plenty of non-tankie .ml users, the problem is with the admins and mods being the biggest Tankies around who enforce the “Tankie ideology” throughout.
Go checkout .ml memes, anything posted that’s Tankie-like will even sometimes get tons of downvotes as the post gets federated to non-Tankie instances but never removed.
Conversely, anything posted that’s even slightly critical of China/Russia is quickly removed under the catch-all “Rule 1 bigotry” (You’ll have to check the modlog for that)
It was by the largest (by a fair margin) socialist-aligned subreddit, but in practice it was like 60% shitposts. Was originally associated with the eponymous podcast, but the hosts have repeatedly said they disliked it.
Ah right. Appreciate the info!
The common clay of the fediverse.
quite vocal about how the world should be organized, but forgot to pay the domain dues
DNS is neoliberalism incarnate 😂
I like how a whole community of academics and researchers worked out how to run a system which, even into the modern day which is kind of amazing, is largely disconnected from being abused by government and industry, and just runs according to what the people who need to use the system need it to do. You can get extorted for a fancy domain name if you really want to, but you can also go to Hostinger and get one for $5/year or something, because a lot of the core of the system is still pretty well-protected from being a cash-grab, through application of good governance and cooperation.
And then, somehow Hexbear managed to find their way around that system and fucked things up for themselves, and now it’s all DNS’s fault that they stepped in a pile of doo doo.
Yes, John Postel and David Mills were some of the vilest ghouls and so on. There was nothing about them that could provide a good model for how to do effective cooperation and succeed outside the systems of ownership that defined computing and telecommunications at the time, no particular reason they succeeded so dramatically and gave you, ultimately, this space to post pig balls today, and nothing about their work and traditions that needs to be defended against any silicon valley ghouls in the modern day. You fucking dingbat. I started out sticking up for you guys because no one deserves to get victimized by DNS scammers, but I take it back, go fuck yourselves.
Well, Postel has been dead since 1998 and Mills since 2010, so I don’t think they’re included in people still in control. So they’ve got that going for them, which is nice, I guess.
Architects of the internet, they said.
If they said the people currently in charge of the internet are an uneasy alliance of shadowy goons and idiots, afraid to openly break anything too irrevocably but occasionally trying to yank on the wires to see if there isn’t some way a little more money inside them somewhere, I would generally agree.
The elders of the Internet?
I mean… OK then just remember the IP addresses of the sites you use and don’t use the domain names?
That will be a problem for sites that are all hosted on one IP address where the server figures out what site you want by the client's request string.
Is this not a majority of them
It is.
Of course there are alternatives if you give up using the host header, like routing by URL. But that’s difficult when the URL is encrypted, meaning SSL has to be terminated at the proxy.
My home stuff is like this
Thats because of how you set it up. If you want individual IP addresses for all your resources, you can get a huge chunk of IPv6 addresses just for yourself. You can get a /48 (65,536) addresses if you set it up with your ISP.
Yeah totally, it’s just wrong to say it’s not the majority of them.
Well then you just take whatever you get, it’s website roulette.
I mean unlike housing, you don’t actually need to pay for a domain name. There are plenty of free alternatives if you ill like paying for a TLD, and in lieu of that you could just memorise the IP, or even instruct people to change their hosts file.
If I didn’t know this was chapotraphouse I would consider it an excellent shitpost.
What is with the weirdly shaped emojis.
Over on the linked page? They’ve got custom “emojis”, which are just pictures uploaded by an admin. Lemmy has that feature in general, but it’s not used much on other instances. If it’s enabled on your instance, you can type
:to select from all regular emojis plus custom ones.I know, but why are they so big.
I wonder if they tried to pay it with a signed note by their mother and a chuck-e-cheeze token with ‘payment in full’ scribbled across the note in red marker.
In a good internet, you shouldn’t have to pay someone else for your own identity.
You don’t have to pay anything to have your own identity.
If you want someone else’s servers to replicate a piece of information for you, and you want them to take responsibility for administrative issues like figuring out whether you still want it next year or what to do if you’re doing something illegal, you may have to pay anywhere from $5 a year to $30 a year for the privilege depending on a couple of factors. Given how massively inflated the price of registering a domain could be, if the type of ghouls who like to get their hands on things like this were able to get their hands on it, I’m inclined to call that success. About 99% of internet users will never need to know or care about DNS, and they can still have their identity without having to pay $30 a year.
I’m pretty sure the price of domains has actually been going down over time, and they’ve introduced a bunch of new TLDs and new types of entries in the records in response to pretty much the only significant problems that the 40-year-old system has ever had during its history. Like I said, I’d call that success.
I would like none of these services. I would simply like my domain name to be mapped to my server’s IP. I don’t want to have to pay a registrar, I would like to submit my domains to registers directly. There is a business layer of middle-men who do not need to exist.
I mean, it is kind of getting that way. The proliferation of some domains that are more expensive than others could potentially be a sign of the whole thing slowly collapsing into costing $10/month or maybe orders of magnitude more, if you are a big company with fat pockets that can be rummaged through, like everything else is nowadays. My point is that the price is $12 per year specifically because those forces have been kept at bay, at least partially, which means the system is an ever-more-incongruous-with-every-passing-year vestige of the decent way that the internet used to be. And also, yes, there’s an increasing cacophony of services which are trying to charge you more than it should cost, hoping that you’ll think $50/year is reasonable and just pay it not knowing any better.
If you think it is sustainable to be able to submit registrations completely for free, though, you are welcome to provide that service to the world under some subdomain, and do a vital service to remove the evil of which you speak. Just register dns.free or whatever, and set up a thing where people can register mysite.dns.free or whatever subdomain they want, and then they can all have it for free. You can be the change. I suspect that if you undertook this mission, it would quickly become apparent to you why the system as a whole still needs to charge a tiny nominal fee in exchange for doing it.
Running the central DNS servers is so cheap that it makes no sense to try to charge for it. Doing the administrative work of keeping track of hundreds of millions of people who all want to register some appellation for themselves, and keeping track of all the changes thereto, is significant, which is why that side of the operation wants to charge you a few bucks a year for it.
ICANN is in the business of running the Internet, not fielding tech support calls from Jones’ BBQ and Foot Massage. I’m fine with this layer of separation. Hell, if it was one massive company controlling all the domains worldwide, wouldn’t that monopoly be an order of magnitude worse?
I don’t mean interacting directly with ICANN. I mean directly interacting with registries, like Verisign.
They control the .com top level domain. They do not interact with consumers, and require you to use a third-layer of registrars to interface with them.
ICANN shouldn’t get into the direct-to-consumer business, that is true and not the issue I am speaking about.
You’re in luck! You can do this! You can become your own registrar. Cut out the middle man! You only have to pay $4000/year to talk directly to ICANN.
You don’t have to! You can run a DNS server out of your house and host any and all domain names you can think of!
Of course, nobody but you will use it, but it’s the principle of the thing, right?
Oh please. Principles are like asses: everyone’s got one, and everyone thinks it’s other peoples’s that stink.
Many things are worth nil on principle. It’s the execution that matters.
Tell me you have no idea how DNS works without saying you have no idea how DNS works.
Remember kids, this is why you still need money. This is literally how the Soviet Union collapsed and why China today became a state capitalist.
Insert oh-no-well-anyway meme here.
lol
This is amusing, but one guy from the crosspost raised a valid problem:
If the hexbear domain fully dies, then all the idiots kept in containment by defederation will start jumping ship to other instances, and start causing trouble for users and moderators.
Right. I don't mind people wearing certain red hats. It lets me know right up front what to expect. Reddit had the same dilemma once upon a time where specific subs were banned, and that just forced the roaches to hide in unknown areas where once you knew exactly where to find them all.
Meh, they’re just going to flood over into grad and .ml where they’ll be welcomed with open arms.
Then all those “.ml’s not that bad, they’re kinda nice” folks will see that .ml mask drop and then finally .world will defed from the last of the Tankie
TriadDyadI’ll take it. It’s easy enough to tag people when I see them unironically spewing russian propaganda or bringing up American atrocities to justify Chinese ones.
In my experience these “containment” boards/servers/sections tend not to work.
Long term it basically just creates a place that attracts those you don’t want, and becomes place for those ideologies to spread. Then it either gets bad enough they take over (you know the site) or they break off wholesale and form a new community dedicated to those worst impulses (pyrrhic victory at best).
The best policy is to actively moderate, and in the case of the fediverse, defederate, those groups and those that give them shelter.
Many of them already do that with alt accounts, which would explain the considerable number of downvotes here.
They followed me around and down voted everything I posted for a while (memes, conversational comments, everything). Oh and they also threatened to kill me. Fuck hexbear and all its users.
I had a Hexbear account, but I once posted something that got 10+ upvotes, then someone came along, took it out of context and made an unfounded accusation.
I pushed back as gently as I could, got dogpiled, then the mods removed my comments. So I deleted the rest of my comments and posts along with my account.
They like to complain about how their bad reputation is undeserved, and then refuse to look in the mirror because they’re always right.
So the tankie idiots join the bigger pool of non-tankie idiots. How will we ever survive…
I have a more optimistic outlook. If they get spread out there’s a higher chance of them getting out of their echo chamber and becoming a normal person. And let’s be real, the worst of them will go into Lemmygrad to continue their circlejerk and thus won’t bother the wider fediverse. And the worst of them probably already have alts on other instances where they stir up shit.
Thanks for that. In this day and age, hearing something positive is a bliss, even it’s just deradicalizing hexers.
Heartbreaking: The Worst Capitalist Practice You Know Just Accidentally Picked A Funny Target
… if DNS is the worst capitalist practice you know of then you REALLY should spend less time shitposting and more time paying attention to the world.
(It's a joke/reference, I guess it's not 100% known though. My bad.)
I really do hate "I know what I have so you are going to pay whatever number I set" capitalism though, which is what they do here. These registrars figured out a loophole around the redemption grace period and are, from the start, set up to make you lose the domain and then spend significant money on a completely unfair auction where they have the power to plant fake bids, rather than paying the usual static redemption fees that aren't that excessive.
Yes… but the meme doesn’t work if said practice is barely on the scale.
Because yeah, there are some REALLY sketchy registrars. Working with the “reputable” ones and now taking advantage of a nation’s country code for the lulz (see: .ml) keeps you pretty safe.
Heh, you think DNS is bad? Buddy, let me tell you about pig butchering…
It’s (un)amusing how the Fediverse of all things still depends on a system of identity that relies on forcing trust on a third party that can take that identity from you at any point and without recourse (within that system). Or, you know, you can “forget to drink your internet identity verification can for the commercial god”, which is just as (un)funny.
Digital trust is a really complicated thing. DNS sure beats most of the alternative I can think of.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c5fee2bd-92d0-4d04-8ace-fcbf2933ae76.gif">
And here I was complaining about cheeseburger.social going down. Our user count was well into the dozens. Dozens!
Perfect domain for a shitcoin.
Oh it couldn’t have happened to a better bunch! 😈
lol.
Tired: Lenin’s on sale again
Wired: Hexbear is a shitcoin
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/59da2120-8532-43ff-8865-1d6de5a9bb39.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://media1.tenor.com/m/iNJ3cA3wV18AAAAC/the-simpsons-mr-burns.gif">
I need a reminder of what hexbear is about. I recall something… off.
Tankie instance
They’re part of the Tankie Triad (.ml, lemmygrad, hexbear). Quite possibly the worst of the triad
I’d vote grad as worst, but it’s certainly close.
Beyond just the general tankiness that others have mentioned, I think the worst thing about Hexbear is how they aggressively claim to be pro-LGBTQ+ while zealously supporting Russia and China, nations which actively persecute anyone who is not hetero-normative. Putin actively jokes about killing homosexuals, and the PRC will black-bag you and put you in a reeducation camp.
I’ve always felt there was something deeply sinister in this hypocrisy, probably having to do with intentionally targeting marginalized people and attempting to influence and/or radicalize them - your basic cult recruitment tactics.
The fuck is going on with this domain?
www.sav.com/auctions/details/7054451/trc.com
It has only three letters and its on the .com top-level domain. That’s it.
So this is a man-in-the-middle attack waiting to happen isn’t it? Buy the domain, setup a reverse proxy that points to the original hexbear server IP and start logging all requests.
Probably. In all honestly, if you are a hexbear user, I’d be keeping a careful eye on who owns the domain when it magically pops back up.
So… who’s outbidding them? Someone from tankiejerk? Or are their being taken over by lemmygrad, to be introduced to Socialism with Dessaline characteristics?
What‽ LMAO grad, .ml are Tankie instances just the same and Dess is a huge Tankie lolol
Lemmygrad and tankies in general have military discipline while hexbear is a vibes-based mob. Authoritarians vs. virtue signallers, one taking over the other would mean popcorn for years.
Yeah I can see that, that would also explain how .ml can maintain… subtlety…to avoid a larger call for defederation from them.
However, saying “to be introduced to Socialism with Dessaline characteristics?” Is rather disingenuous, Tankies with restraint and discipline are still Tankies
Socialism with Dessaline characteristics is, to the best of my knowledge, the ideology of lemmygrad. You know, abolish slavery and then run plantations with forced labour is a very tankie thing to do. I’m sure both Dessalines, the emperor and the lemmy dev one, can explain to you how those two are completely different things.
Wow, what a character to base your username off of and presumably looks up to?..
In any case, Tankies hate socialism, they see it as nothing but trying to “make capitalism work with regulation” and they strive for abolishment of capitalism entirely.
Which, I’m not against, but they want to abolish and then replace it with an authoritarianism-based regime instead that looks something like what China has, which is just replacing a bad thing with something as equally as bad or worse.
I think you are confusing “socialism” with “capitalism with social safety nets.”
Socialism is the abolition of private ownership of the means of production, and private ownership of the means of production is what capitalism is. All versions of socialism are anti-capitalist, including communism.
You don’t even have a Wikipedia-level understanding of capitalism, socialism, or communism. Have you even read the first few paragraphs of the Wiki entries for the concepts you pretend to be knowledgeable of?
A) if you had read my comment closely, you would have seen I said "What they SEE it as. Not what it is
B) Socialism does not require the abolishment of capitalism and most working examples of it, such as in EU countries, works alongside capitalism. This is the version most people think when they reference socialism and that’s what’s relevant to the discussion.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
The very first sentence of the Wiki entry invalidates your argument that EU countries are socialist. They’re not even working toward socialism, because they’re not working toward abolishing private ownership of the means of production. In fact they’ve all been moving in the opposite direction ever since Margaret Thatcher. They’ve been privatizing things that had been public.
I get what you’re saying about the technical definition, but when most people talk about ‘socialism’ today, they’re thinking of the European model of strong social programs and regulated capitalism - aka social democracy. That’s the common usage I was working with. Could I have been more precise with terminology? Sure.
But that doesn’t change my main point about tankies, they reject even that moderate approach in favor of turning the dial to 11 and pushing authoritarian systems like China’s at the sacrifice of human rights and freedoms (and overlooking/denying them when said regimes do it), which is exactly what I was criticizing.
The Western capitalist states just did a twenty year long “war on terror” based on lies, causing the deaths of millions, and are complicit in supporting a 15 month long genocide of Palestinians, and you’re super-concerned about China’s human rights abuses as reported by those same Western states, which are virulently anti-communist and known to push BS anti-communist narratives for the last century?
Neither Washington nor Beijing, but actually Washington.
The difference is nobody’s denying (well I’m sure the right-wing nut jobs are anyways) it.
And also now you’ve just devolved into the classic tankie “whataboutism” as if what the West does at all excuses what China/Russia are doing.
The censorship and suppression of freedoms in China are well documented.
China is calling the state capitalism they have there “Socialism with Chinese characteristics”. Hence “with Dessalines characteristics”.
Ah, I get you now lol
Is there a way to know who bought it? Did they get it back or is it some rando or is it a known third party?
It is actively being auctioned, see the post body.
Ah… I did not understand the auction link. I thought “expired” meant that the auction ended. I guess it describes the status of the domain.
Thanks
Edit: who tf downvoted me admitting my mistake and thanking for the clarification lol
You don’t actually “buy” domain names. You basically rent them from a registrar. “expired” meant someone forgot to pay rent / renew the lease so control of the name goes back to the registrar. They can just delete it after some grace period but domain names that has traffic going to them has value so they are usually put up for auction by the registrar nowadays, which is what you see here.
Without saying who downvoted you (I can see who did because I’m an instance admin), I’m pretty sure that person is gunning for “person who downvotes the most on the fediverse”. They have a lot of hate in their soul.
Don’t get me wrong - I certainly earn most of the downvotes I get. That was just a weird one that caught me off-guard. It is as you say.
Blaming capitalism for domain names being a nightmare is hilarious, they are insanely cheap its 12$ a year for a .com, that is all, lol.
This is just straight up bad planning, they said they have jobs and lives like bro you turn on autorenew you put money in the card, any local business has no issues holding their domain for a decade lol, how do you just not make having it with the person hosting the site a priority.
The admins made a rookie mistake: they believed someone on the Internet.
“I’ll do it tomorrow” means fucking never. Nah, bitch, do it TODAY.
Not rlly there is a biding ongoing on hexbear.net namedomaine, the highest offer right now is 700 $
They literally didnt pay their under 20$ a year fee for renewal, its their own fault for not having the domain be with the same person managing hosting, it’s like amateur stuff to at least have them be an authorized user.
They were in contact with the dude who owns it a few times, wouldve taken minutes to add them as authorized users
2347$ now
ugh its back
This is IMO a risk for many individual owned fediverse instance. Someone has a domain, at a point other admin take over, and the domain owner doesn't renew no matter whether they forget because real life happens or due to some Drama.
Very few instances have a clear legal organizational (like a non profit club) running, which is more flexible when founders step out
Yeah this does prove a failing point for the fediverse that is an important part of larger adoption. This still mostly exists in large part by communal effort even if the community doesn’t appreciate it or recognize it
What’s a hex bear?
A bear made of hexagons
A bear made of hexagons
Well yea but what is it in this specific context? I have no idea what this is
Pedobear with extra steps
That doesn’t really clear anything up, tbh, I don’t know what this is or why I care about their domain expiring this post did nothing to explain that
That’s not what you asked
But you lied about their damage anyways so who cares what he asked if you’re not going to actually answer?
What?
Did I stutter, or are you just not used to getting pushback on describing all your enemies as pedos?
Sorry im not able to decifer your code
What am I supposed to do with that nonsense?
Grammatical and concise English?
Jesus fucking Christ I hope you’re a bot.
What did I lie about? Damage? What damage? Are you in the wrong comment chain?
A far-left Lemmy instance, one of the so-called “Tankie Triad” (along with lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml). Compared to other instances of the Triad, focuses more on inclusivity and minority rights.
As with all instances of the Triad, Hexbear is commonly hated on other instances due to conflicts stemming from the difference of political perspectives with the majority of people on other instances.
They’re not “far-left” they’re authoritarian “communists” and by “difference of political perspectives” you mean denial of human rights abuses and suppression of freedom by authoritarian regimes (even denying they are authoritarian regimes) like China or even that Russia was totally justified attacking a country unprovoked.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Communists (internet troll-ish)
As opposed to Communists (just-- communists) from lemmy.ml and Communists (Spicy Communists) from lemmygrad.ml
None of them are communists, they’re Tankies, tankies = authoritarians
I think saying Tankies aren’t Communists is a bit like saying Sword Art Online isn’t an anime.
Just because they suck doesn’t remove them from the category. In fact acknowledging the sucky parts of a <thing> is part of being grown up about that thing.
Well they’re more like Authoritarian “Communists”, the theory of communism doesn’t require human rights violations and restrictions of freedoms.
But the only examples of communism in practice, and the only ones they praise and defend fervently, are places with authoritarian regimes like China.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Communism is a political ideology predicated on murdering a group of political enemies in the name of a pseudoscientific economic theory which is given the same reverence that Catholics do to church dogma. Communism is, and always has been, a cult.
Ok neolib.
Eloquent in your brevity
It was more then you deserved
Whoever told you that had an agenda.
First, communism is an economic theory. A very stripped down version of the theory is this: It proposes that the rich have obtained their wealth through the exploitation of workers. They justify the exploitation by “owning” the raw materials, tools, factories, land, and other apparatuses that the workers need to produce things. But without workers those things could not be converted or used to convert raw materials into goods. The theory suggests that the workers should own those things instead of the rich people. The idea is that the workers would then share amongst each other because, being of the same class, they are naturally more likely to care about the needs of the others in that class. Whatever your opinion or critique of this general idea, it is an idea not a cult.
Like all theories that have some level of popularity it has a lot of variations and sub theories. Some are more idealistic than others. These factions have a lot of history with one another a review of the Russian revolution and lead up show the kind of factionalism that exists with the movement. If you study revolutions you know that this is common.
Second, people have used virtually any ideal to justify atrocities. We should not throw out an idea only because someone somewhere used it to justify violence.
Third dogma is a problem. It is used in communist communities in the same way that it is used in the Catholic Church, to try and prevent descension. As noted above communist movements tend to have a lot of factions but the one that gains the most traction always tries to force the others into line. This is common wherever there are new ideas being implemented as policy.
This is likely why people think communism is intent on murdering its enemies. However, every revolution, Russian, French, Haitian, United States, etc. used violence and murder to achieve its goal.
Communists also say that capitalism murders people every day, and they die with a smile on their face. A pittance of a paycheck goes in their widow’s purse while they have died without realizing that they were exploited to death.
Socialism is the theory that workers should own the means of production. Communism is the theory that the workers should massacre the owners in order to get them. While socialism describes an ideal state of society, communism is explicitly a program for mass murder to achieve a much more vague definition of an ideal society. That is why, after establishing a communist state, communist governments continue to seek out and purge or murder heretics against the Marxist-Leninist state ideology (or “Mao Zedong thought”). Communism is not a theory, as dialectical materialism likes to pretend it is. At its best, communism is a political cult that attract white middle class college freshman. At its worst, communism is a state religion with all the inquisitions and mass murder and auto-genocide that comes with that.
Communism is unintelligible without perceived enemies of the working class. This was not a perversion by Lenin or Stalin; this is baked into the DNA of the writings of Marx, who dedicated a few thousand pages to misdescribing the economics of capitalism and his fantasies for mass murder, but comparatively few pages describing what the end result of that revolution looks like.
I can intellectually respect a Socialist who is convinced that the world would be better if all companies were worker coops, or if all business were regulated by state councils of proletarian soviets. I do not respect anybody claiming to be a communist in precisely the same way that I don’t respect anyone claiming to be a Nazi; they are equally evil and murderous ideologies that are responsible for tens if not over a hundred million deaths throughout the 20th century. Anybody who endorses this ideology in the 21st century is as low as a fucking neo-Nazi
Arguing terminology is not really that helpful here, nazis called themselves socialists. And very few countries with “democratic republic of” in their name are democratic republics.
The terms Socialism and Communism have been used interchangeably since the beginning. This move to split socialism off is both a move by some within the movement to be more palatable to liberals and a move by opposition from without to further factionalize the movement. However, many people use the terms interchangeably or use communism to differentiate themselves from capitalist liberals claiming to be socialists.
Specific subsets of communism/socialism like Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, vanguard theory and various other implementations of communism are violent, should be criticized and learned from.
All this is to say plenty of people claiming to be communists do not want widespread suffering or genocide. They may be willing to use force to implement their ideas, but so are the adherents of nearly every other ideology.
Nazis always want racial segregation and the of Jews. Communists want equity. Nazis want superiority.
What you are focused on is Vanguard Communism which proposes that because the workers are not yet educated enough to understand that communism is better for them, a group of communists should make a totalitarian government. That totalitarian government will then shepherd the country to total communism.
History shows that this form of communism generally falls to corruption and they never get to full on communism. The proponents of this view always blame outside influences (like the west), while conveniently ignoring that power corrupts everyone.
Cuba is often shown as an example of successful vanguard communism. However it still hasn’t fully divested the communist party of its totalitarian power, and a lot of migrants move to Florida. So, it doesn’t really meet the criteria in my eyes.
Communism is an ideology about murdering capitalists. That is baked into its DNA. Maybe some western European philosophy professors came along in the 1950s and sanitized the idea for their undergrads, but the idea is and always has been about violently overthrowing capital owners. You discount Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, and vanguard theory, despite this covering virtually 99% of all communists who have ever lived.
Nazis want to impose a pseudoscientific system of racial hygiene and they massacred anyone who got in their way. Communists want worker ownership of the means of production and the massacred anyone who got in their way. I see no difference.
Cuba is an authoritarian regime which should be overthrown and replaced with a liberal democracy. It is absolutely not a success story
Yeah, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Go listen to some people that don’t use PragerU talking points.
And now you know why I just said “ok neolib”.
This is a ridiculous false equivalence.
You’re right. The Bolsheviks and Haitians didn’t own slaves!
You mean the French and Russians didn’t have slavery before their revolutions. But the Bolsheviks killed millions. And they established slave labor camps for decades.
[Soviet Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1917]
www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM
And in the French revolution, just a handful of people caused thousands of executions.
www.worldhistory.org/Reign_of_Terror/
[This led to the enactment of the Law of Suspects, which allowed for the arrests of between 300,000 and half a million citizens nationwide. 16,594 of these ‘suspects’ were formally executed after a trial, while around 10,000 died in prison, and thousands more were killed in various massacres staged across France. It is estimated that the total death toll during the ten-month Reign of Terror rests anywhere between 30-50,000.]
Did you really think I couldn’t back up my statement with facts? How is the Reign of Terror in France and the mass genocide in the USSR in any way “equivalent” to the American and Haitian revolutions?
That first link is pure cold warrior nonsense on par with the black book of communism. As for the second, I defer to the words of Mark Twain:
Truthfully I support all of those revolutions as historical processes which have brought about necessary change, but the Haitians and the Russians fighting for their freedom from Slavery and Capitalism respectively are much more commendable than the Americans doing so because they didn’t want to slow down their westward expansion.
Lenin and Stalin did more harm to socialism than any other people in the entire history of mankind. You are a 20th century fossil. Soviet genocide are well documented facts. Here you go…
en.wikipedia.org/…/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago
www.sciencedirect.com/…/S0967067X97000111
chinafile.com/…/who-killed-more-hitler-stalin-or-…
news.stanford.edu/…/naimark-stalin-genocide-09231…
reddit.com/…/how_many_people_did_stalin_actually_…
allthatsinteresting.com/how-many-people-did-stali…
britannica.com/…/The-U-S-S-R-from-the-death-of-Le…
literally a fiction book. You might as well cite fucking Animal Farm.
btw I’m giving your comment exactly as nuanced and in-depth a look as it deserves.
Literally a 100% history book. 2000 pages of specific details. And literally nobody in the Soviet government ever claimed any of it was not 100% correct.
Communism is stateless and classless. How are STATES with authoritarian unanswerable leaders/classes in any way communist?
On the unlikely chance that the question isn’t rhetodical, I’d suggest Michael Parenti’s Blackshirts and Reds.
It’s not rhetorical. ML, Leninism is called that because it literally isn’t communism. Otherwise they’d just call it communism. It’s a cunning master plan to build an economy capable of somehow transitioning to communism. How? Good question. Even the ideologies creators didn’t really explain it properly. It literally fits the 3 step meme.
Step 1: slaughter everyone that disagrees with you.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: communism!
My criticism of Leninism isn’t defense of anyone. As an anarchist I’m anti-authoritarian whether they’re liberal/leninist/maoist. You’re all a danger to yourselves and everyone else. Regardless of how much everyone despising each other or constant whataboutism. Under capitalism oligarchs buy our representation. Turn them against us. Putting the boot at our necks. Under leninism. The Vanguard party consolidates power. Killing or imprisoning anyone who is a threat no matter how small. And rewarding friends and family with wealth and power. All the while the boot at the throat of the proletariat they’re supposed to be serving. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. They all need to be torn down.
They actually do just call it Communism. Few people call it Leninism.
They call it Communism. I could name my dog Communism and it would be Communism too. It still wouldn’t be communism.
This is propaganda comparable to the GOP wanting “smaller government” rather than authoritarian Fascism.
Well then please go edit wikipedia. As well as most political science and philosophy books. Because that’s literally how it’s defined. Actually they commonly go further classless stateless moneyless. But I digress. I’m not the one pushing GOP or FSB propaganda here.
The point is that the GOP promised “smaller government” and delivered a big government proliferation of victimless crimes. Where do you think they got that con job propaganda from? Lenin did exactly the same thing but on an even bigger scale.
TBF there are different types of communism. Marxist, Leninist, State, Libertarian, etc… I don’t know enough about how they all decided to become all these sub-genres, but my basic take is that there’s communism, the kind where workers have the power and the distribution of goods and wealth is shared among society; and then there’s the communism that we all know, the authoritarian regime that controls the classes and distribution of goods and wealth.
Personally I think the latter shouldn’t be called communism at all, it’s a completely different animal than the original idea, but IMO conservative politics have so thoroughly conflated tyrannical state control with communism, along with Stalin’s\Lenin’s authoritarian brutality claiming to be communism, that the two will never be separated.
Yes there are. Specifically I would be a libertarian-congress or an anarco-communist.
However. Regardless of propaganda. One cannot be authoritarian. Or for a strong centralization of authority and State power. And actually be communist. They are conflicting goals. The workers cannot in any meaningful sense control the means of production. When they are oppressed by a dictatorial Vanguard. That imprisons/beats/slaughters any dissenters. The Vanguard owns the means of production in that scenario. They will still tell you that they are you. Even as they strangle and stomp on you. However it’s just a sick joke.
Conversely, actual libertarianism. Left libertarianism. Especially the kind advocated for by the originator of libertarianism Dejacque, as well as anarchism. Are in near complete and total harmony with communism. The only rub being how absolute the call from Mutual Aid is and how voluntary it is. Both ideologies being heavily predicated on consent and freedom.
Whats wrong with SAO
Trash.
Its generic slop by anime standards. Like yeah anime is meant for teenagers and young adults so you can’t be too critical over fanservice or flat YA novel Gary sue tier character writing or forgetting to write an actually compelling reason for the villain doing the bad thing at the start by the time the story wraps up. But you can at least try you know?
Anime in general is not meant to be high art but SAO goes the extra mile to be uninteresting bland slop that appeals to the lowest common denominator. Young nerdy teenage boys dont care because all they want is the hot anime girl harem and flashy epic gamer op superpower eye candy sakuga battles but the older you get the more apparent the poor writing gets.
The isekai genre has done a lot better over the decade since SAO initially released things like rezero or even Overlord blow it out of the water in terms of actually interesting plot and suspense. The only reason SAO is still popular is the high quality porn.
💀
Hexbear, along with .ml and grad, are Tankie instances. Known as the Tankie Triad (well soon to be Tankie Dyad anyways lol)
An unhealthy Lemmy obsession.
Just block it and get on with your life.
No way, after all that posting hexbear is defeated by capitalism???
Nah. Socialists can charge for services.
It was defeated by an admin being so done with their shit he couldn’t be bothered lol.
Edit:
Actually. No. Wait a fucking minute.
This admin went spotty on contact like 3 months ago, right?
In November? And then he both didn’t want to give up control, but also didn’t want to pay a small amount of money. Like maybe he got what he wanted from the community and pulled the plug? Because it was never about the community.
.
Isn’t hilarious chaos a Nazi instance?
No, it isn’t.
I bid seventy cents, two peanut shells, and a cancelled postage stamp.
Wait, postage stamps can be cancelled?
That stamp knows what it did.
The postage stamp asked strangers to lick its behind!
They don’t care, mission was accomplished in November of last year.
They were established 4+ years ago just to cause the dnc to lose an election in 2024?
Yes, are you unaware of how Russian propaganda works?
I do but that’s quite the stretch when they’re usually going for right wing propagandists
What I see from hexbear trolls is an attempt to usurp leftism and turn it into something very weird. They came hard for Biden and Kamala, but don’t really say anything negative about Trump. They talk about “libs” as though the word hasn’t changed which group it refers to over the course of the last century.
It is quite clear to me that they do this to advance Russian interests and global fascism. They will, of course, deny it, but they are simply manipulators.
They constantly shit on trump.
Now I wonder what you think leftism is
There are definitely far left groups, primarily in Europe, that ally with Russia. All groups on the fringes have proven useful for spreading pro-Russian propaganda. In the US, Trump’s pro-Russian sympathies and general stupifaction of the GOP has led to the GOP becoming an ally to the Kremlin. But prior to that, both parties were anti-Russia with Republicans being moreso.
Old Soviet/Russian doctrine is to always play both (or all) sides of a conflict
The DNC did not lose. We are the losers. You and me will feel the impact way more than well to do politicians.
And they’re certainly showing that by their reaction to the election and people asking them to do anything