lvxferre@mander.xyz
on 16 Nov 2024 09:23
nextcollapse
It’s all fun and games until venture capital kicks in, and exploits that central user data store to further centralise the rest of the network. Even then yes, I think that Mastodon has a lot to learn with Bluesky, on how to make user experience smoother.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip
on 16 Nov 2024 14:23
nextcollapse
Or I think you know, users are going to have to get over themselves because they are currently going from centralized platform to centralized platform to supposedly decentralized platform. Eventually, maybe one day they will figure out that platforms do not work and protocols are what people should be using.
lvxferre@mander.xyz
on 16 Nov 2024 15:16
nextcollapse
I get what you say, and I agree; but when it comes to the average user I wonder if they’ll even get it. They don’t think on the grounds of a “protocol” or a “platform”, it used to be “site” and now “app”. They do it even with email, of all things, even if it’s one of the oldest cross-platform protocols out there!
The average user is hopping from phone app to phone app, following their favourite interner celebrity. They don’t care about the rest.
Meanwhile, VC backed businesses can buy internet celebrities, and on the cheap.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip
on 18 Nov 2024 14:55
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Humanity is doomed because that means that eventually we’re going to have Kim Kardashian as president. We might as well evacuate the Titanic while there are still lifeboats around to do so.
electricprism@lemmy.ml
on 17 Nov 2024 07:14
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eg: G Mail
IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
on 16 Nov 2024 11:16
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🤷♂️ there’s got to be some place for the average person to go without being screamed at by some nerd calling them a boot licker.
I also think the “confusion” of fediverse is overblown. People aren’t confused. First adopters who don’t want to be screamed at by flying squid aren’t telling friends and family to join.
The people here and their attitude towards people who don’t agree with them are the problem.
Stovetop@lemmy.world
on 16 Nov 2024 11:48
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But your normie friends and family would fit in a lot better if they simply read some T H E O R Y.
richieadler@lemmy.myserv.one
on 16 Nov 2024 12:03
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For many people, learning things and reading are anathema.
LucidBoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 16 Nov 2024 14:21
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The people here and their attitude towards people who don’t agree with them are the problem.
And that’s a structural problem. The ActivityPub was supposed to allow both the “average person” and the “nerd” to coexist in the same platform, without one getting too much in the way of the other; it doesn’t.
I’m not sure on a good solution for that.
richieadler@lemmy.myserv.one
on 16 Nov 2024 12:03
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They don’t coexist peacefully in life, why would they do it here?
IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
on 16 Nov 2024 12:09
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My nerd and techy friends, even the more progressive ones, do just fine in most places.
Your typical instance only defeds another as a last case scenario, due to deep divergences or because of blatantly shitty admin or user behaviour. But, past that, they’re still willing to let some shit to go through - because if you defederate too many other instances, with no good reason, you’re only hurting yourself.
That’s simply not enough to create those “corners”. Specially when all this “nerds vs. normies*” thing is all about depth - for example the normie wants some privacy, but the nerd goes all in, but they still care about the same resources.
*I hate this word but it’s convenient here.
demesisx@infosec.pub
on 17 Nov 2024 14:43
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Defederation from hexbear.net happened quickly and with very little debate. The mods on world ADORE censorship. They are almost worse than even the censorship on Reddit. If you’re too left or right wing for them, you’re going to have a very bad time. It’s forced centrism through putting up unavoidable blinders and it is the kneejerk reaction of that instance (and a few others).
Same with hexbear. They banned me for not being left wing enough. This behavior is more toxic than a place where all are allowed to communicate IN GOOD FAITH and are only censored or banned when it is ABSOLUTELY the only option to move forward. Hiveminds are bad. Banning people and defederation is utterly anathema to the intended purpose of the fediverse. Anyone who supports censorship should take a step back and think humbly and deeply about what they are doing, smugly preventing others from expressing their opinions.
Can you come up with more examples? Because you’re coming across as “this happened to me, personally, once, therefore it’s run amok!”
No one is saying that defederation doesn’t happen. They’re saying it’s not the norm. And hexbear isn’t the norm, any more than lemmygrad, or poa.st are.
Bluesky: You are immediately and automatically welcomed into the warm embrace of an algorithm that entices you into a parasocial relationship with the synthetic community it has created.
Mastodon: If you're lucky you'll stumble across a warm welcome for new users explaining how posts are called toots here, likes are called florps, and our version of Grok is called Garfiald.
Tywele@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 16 Nov 2024 13:43
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But that’s not true for Bluesky. The only feed that you see when newly registering is the Following feed which is chronological.
That's not how it was as of yesterday when I signed up just to see what all the fuss was about. (I don't think I'll be participating.)
Tywele@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 16 Nov 2024 13:52
nextcollapse
Ok true, I think I forgot that you also see the Discover feed? But you can just remove that from your feeds and add any feed you like or just use the Following feed.
Drunemeton@lemmy.world
on 16 Nov 2024 14:44
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Wow, you signed up yesterday and determined, “an algorithm that entices you into a parasocial relationship with the synthetic community” all on your own?
It’s not any of that…
But If what it truly is, isn’t for you, that’s fine too.
threaded - newest
It’s all fun and games until venture capital kicks in, and exploits that central user data store to further centralise the rest of the network. Even then yes, I think that Mastodon has a lot to learn with Bluesky, on how to make user experience smoother.
Or I think you know, users are going to have to get over themselves because they are currently going from centralized platform to centralized platform to supposedly decentralized platform. Eventually, maybe one day they will figure out that platforms do not work and protocols are what people should be using.
I get what you say, and I agree; but when it comes to the average user I wonder if they’ll even get it. They don’t think on the grounds of a “protocol” or a “platform”, it used to be “site” and now “app”. They do it even with email, of all things, even if it’s one of the oldest cross-platform protocols out there!
The average user is hopping from phone app to phone app, following their favourite interner celebrity. They don’t care about the rest.
Meanwhile, VC backed businesses can buy internet celebrities, and on the cheap.
Humanity is doomed because that means that eventually we’re going to have Kim Kardashian as president. We might as well evacuate the Titanic while there are still lifeboats around to do so.
eg: G Mail
🤷♂️ there’s got to be some place for the average person to go without being screamed at by some nerd calling them a boot licker.
I also think the “confusion” of fediverse is overblown. People aren’t confused. First adopters who don’t want to be screamed at by flying squid aren’t telling friends and family to join.
The people here and their attitude towards people who don’t agree with them are the problem.
But your normie friends and family would fit in a lot better if they simply read some T H E O R Y.
For many people, learning things and reading are anathema.
i just learned that word a few hours ago!
And that’s a structural problem. The ActivityPub was supposed to allow both the “average person” and the “nerd” to coexist in the same platform, without one getting too much in the way of the other; it doesn’t.
I’m not sure on a good solution for that.
They don’t coexist peacefully in life, why would they do it here?
My nerd and techy friends, even the more progressive ones, do just fine in most places.
Lemmy has the extremist and most angry.
They tolerate each other enough to get each into a corner and not interact much.
And yet that is not what we see in the Fediverse. Those “corners” don’t exist here.
Are you sure? In my experience, they defederate from each other.
I’m almost sure.
Your typical instance only defeds another as a last case scenario, due to deep divergences or because of blatantly shitty admin or user behaviour. But, past that, they’re still willing to let some shit to go through - because if you defederate too many other instances, with no good reason, you’re only hurting yourself.
That’s simply not enough to create those “corners”. Specially when all this “nerds vs. normies*” thing is all about depth - for example the normie wants some privacy, but the nerd goes all in, but they still care about the same resources.
*I hate this word but it’s convenient here.
Defederation from hexbear.net happened quickly and with very little debate. The mods on world ADORE censorship. They are almost worse than even the censorship on Reddit. If you’re too left or right wing for them, you’re going to have a very bad time. It’s forced centrism through putting up unavoidable blinders and it is the kneejerk reaction of that instance (and a few others).
Same with hexbear. They banned me for not being left wing enough. This behavior is more toxic than a place where all are allowed to communicate IN GOOD FAITH and are only censored or banned when it is ABSOLUTELY the only option to move forward. Hiveminds are bad. Banning people and defederation is utterly anathema to the intended purpose of the fediverse. Anyone who supports censorship should take a step back and think humbly and deeply about what they are doing, smugly preventing others from expressing their opinions.
Can you come up with more examples? Because you’re coming across as “this happened to me, personally, once, therefore it’s run amok!”
No one is saying that defederation doesn’t happen. They’re saying it’s not the norm. And hexbear isn’t the norm, any more than lemmygrad, or poa.st are.
Bluesky: You are immediately and automatically welcomed into the warm embrace of an algorithm that entices you into a parasocial relationship with the synthetic community it has created.
Mastodon: If you're lucky you'll stumble across a warm welcome for new users explaining how posts are called toots here, likes are called florps, and our version of Grok is called Garfiald.
But that’s not true for Bluesky. The only feed that you see when newly registering is the Following feed which is chronological.
That's not how it was as of yesterday when I signed up just to see what all the fuss was about. (I don't think I'll be participating.)
Ok true, I think I forgot that you also see the Discover feed? But you can just remove that from your feeds and add any feed you like or just use the Following feed.
Wow, you signed up yesterday and determined, “an algorithm that entices you into a parasocial relationship with the synthetic community” all on your own?
It’s not any of that…
But If what it truly is, isn’t for you, that’s fine too.
And then there's Lemmy, where you can always count on some helpful stranger who's completely missed the point chiming in to tell you why you're wrong.
No you are wrong about that.
Is Bluesky fediverse tho?