That’s your right and I support you but… If your standard is “I don’t buy products that are made by bad people”… You’re gonna have a tough time. No such thing as ethical capitalism and all that.
I said the problem is not UE, I didn’t say i love it, did I? I only said the engine is not the problem if it’s not infested with EOS. Games that force it now or retroactively add it are the big problem, EOS and Tim is the second problem
But… Why? I don’t understand why you would be okay with using a company’s engine but not their online services. Is it a privacy issue? You don’t even have to log in to Epic unless you want cross platform play.
I don’t use it nor I’m okay using it. You’re forced to use their launcher and have an account with them. I wouldn’t really mind an account to use the engine (if I was good at making games! But that’s another problem 🤷♂️) but why is it tied to okay I was gonna make an argument at why is the engine tied to a launcher but steam is the same (I knew but checked to be sure) not that I care much in both cases tho.
The problem is I don’t trust epic and their EOS since they have a bad reputation for what they do and did.
You don’t have to install the launcher to play games that use EOS. You don’t have to make an account unless you want to log into Epic, which is not necessary to play the game (unless of course you bought it on the epic store).
The only arguably bad thing about EOS’ inclusion is that it can collect some telemetry about you, which Epic currently claims to be pretty sparse.
Yes, I know but the problem is that it gets installed with the game even if you don’t want it, it’s used even with single player games and deleting it, the game refuses to launch. Why single player games need it? No, the “for Telemetry purposes” is not a valid answer. I don’t want it on my system, period. We can argue whether it’s the dev or not since I’m sure (assumption since I’m not a dev nor I know one) it’s not the dev that decides to add it. Damn, I wish I could remember which game didn’t work with eos dll removed (happened months ago). Ooh Apex Legends (good or not, don’t care about it) added eos mandatory, if you block your pc to phoning home (hosts file) to epic, it refuses to launch. WHY?!
If Satisfactory can run in single player (don’t care about multi nor I have friends lol) without the eos dll and updates don’t add it back, maybe I’ll think about it but I can’t test it since I don’t own the game.
I mean, it’s there so the game can utilize Epic’s online services, like achievements. Doing so requires the use of the EOS SDK. So it’s not like they can just include a check box to disable the functionality; that would require an entirely separate release of the game. It’s already not doing anything besides making sure the EOS server exists unless you’re engaging with Epic systems. At least that’s the case for dedicated servers, but I would assume that it’s the same if you only select Steam multiplayer (or single player mode).
So it’s not like they can just include a check box to disable the functionality;
Risk of rain? Is the first that comes in mind. You can also delete it and works great.
I try to avoid as much as possible and if I can’t because bought before knowing or added later, I delete the file, if it doesn’t work I’m refunding it. It’s dumb? Yeah. I’ll keep doing it? Yes
I mean, it’s there so the game can utilize Epic’s online services, like achievements
I don’t get this. If bought on steam it should NOT use it by default and using it SHOULD be optional, off by default and toggleable in settings.
As I said above: If the game can run without the file, I think about buying it
RoR is likely turning off some of the functionality but the EOS SDK is still used in the binary. I’m assuming here, I don’t know the specific implementation, but if there’s a check box and you don’t need to restart the whole game after checking it, there’s no way it’s somehow removing EOS from the program. It likely just disables various functionality, but I bet it’s still making a couple calls to verify the existence of the EOS network, just like Satisfactory does.
Games (and programs in general) have to be built with support for any environments they want to run on. If you want to release your game on multiple storefronts and take advantage of their built in social functions, you need to build in support for those functions, even if they won’t be used in some cases.
Not if you delete the dll file, unless it’s both inthe dll and the exe…?
I think it requires a restart but it’s off by default, it asks when you first run it (first install? Each install?) And you can disable it but after deleting the .dll file, the game runs perfectly fine
I guess? But some people aren’t really happy with these changes, especially old games where it gets added or the fact is required in a single-player only game
But if it’s deleting it stops any call then it’s like not having it in the first place
Nah, don’t care. Devs are learning where is better to release games (aka not exclusively) soo🤷♂️ it’s a matter of time and we’ll either see it die or adapt and make something worth using and not trying to be a monopoly
But… you’re basically arguing for more exclusivity by effectively boycotting the majority of products that choose to release on the Epic store, as most of them will include EOS functionality. Why is steamworks fine?
I’m a valve fanboy but they’re only company that’s even got a prayer of monopolizing the PC games market. Epic is if anything an anti-monopolistic force here – the Unreal Engine is the Epic product that’s threatening market dominance.
No because a lot of people hate the exclusives and they don’t buy those games, devs will realize it (one day). Look at how Ubi went back to steam, Square too🤷♂️
Honestly, a eos+steamworks would be better 🤷♂️ but even a simple “cross platform” (epic/steam) would work.
I agree that the exclusivity is a bummer, but on the other hand multiple games exist today that would not without Epic’s funding. I just don’t buy games on the Epic store (everything I own on there was from a free giveaway). When they come to Steam, I get to buy them on my platform of choice, and the injection of capital means they’re much further along than they would be otherwise, if they would even exist without the funding. I just think of it as an Early Access period.
Yes, from an objective standpoint I would of course prefer an open cross-platform standard, but while it’s the sort of thing I could see Steam adopting and even contributing to, Epic definitely wants the lock-in. And while Epic would obviously love to be a monopoly, as long as they have less market share than Steam, they’re an anti-monopolistic force as a direct competitor to Steam.
In this scenario, boycotting games that include the EOS SDK is a pointless gesture and the only reason to do so is if you’re worried about the telemetry in the SDK, which from the documentation and from Satisfactory dedicated server logs is pretty minimal unless you log into Epic through the game. It sounds like your main issue is the exclusivity, which has nothing to do with the SDK, and would be effectively “voted against with your wallet” by just not spending money on the Epic store. But as long as Epic keeps offering significant chunks of cash for timed exclusivity, it will remain an extremely attractive deal for any game without significant pre-relrase hype.
Maybe but why make them exclusive? Look at the recent alan wake 2. A complete flop because they released on a platform no one wants to buy and remedy recoup the dev costs from it.
If you buy them day one on Steam doesn’t that mean you’re fine to wait and tell devs/pubs that exclusivity is good? They get money from epic for going exclusive then on Steam again, doesn’t it incentives more exclusives?
I wouldn’t call it a “competitor”. To be a competitor you should offer something that people can like like new features or copy stuff others have and make it better, I guess? Why don’t you make something useful like helping/funding part of the handheld/linux development? Wouldn’t that be awesome instead of throwing money at will hoping to get a few users to use your (IMO) inferior platform?
Look at what they did: bought rocket league, removed from steam (WHY?) and transformed it into a garbage shit requiring epic account. I don’t own it nor I’ve ever played it (if we don’t count the free trial downloaded somewhere).
No, Im not gonna trust someone who does what is currently doing right now, like paying for exclusives, so if the dll method doesn’t work im gonna refund it. I don’t care how pointless that is.
My main issue is exclusives (especially the timed exclusives from PS, but 🤷♂️) and also the person behind Epic. There’s nothing that makes me want to use the store or have anything to do with them.
I’m not them, but I dislike Epic Online Servies, too. Last time I read the terms document, it granted permission for way too much data collection, and I’m not a fan of spyware.
I mean if you don’t log in, at least the dedicated server only makes two calls to EOS. The SDK is in the game, sure, but if you’re not logging in to Epic then I don’t really see the threat. It seems like classic sinophobia to be totally blasé about any data Steam (or Coffee Stain) want to collect, but to avoid the entire product because Tencent might be able to associate your IP with the fact that you own the game.
jazztickets@lemmy.world
on 10 Sep 19:31
nextcollapse
If it helps, you’re not logged into EOS automatically anymore in 1.0. You have the option for direct IP connect, Steam, or EOS.
There are many new settings that you can apply to a session. Now you can play singleplayer with all the multiplayer capabilities disabled. You can now play exclusively using Steam to connect, or exclusively use Epic Online Services, as well as choose to have Crossplay between both platforms.
Remember, it’s not just fun. It’s contractually obligated fun fun fun!
JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world
on 10 Sep 15:33
nextcollapse
I got this game for free a while back in a Reddit competition lol, might have to get back into it.
CrowAirbrush@lemmy.world
on 10 Sep 16:01
nextcollapse
Oohh nice, even tho i’m not really the right person for such a game.
I keep losing track and starting over, then realizing i want it to look cooler…start rebuilding and lose interest and drop the game fir quite a time until i find out i lost track and start the cycle over again.
Everything except the losing interest part is what people love about factory games. So while they have your interest, realize that you are absolutely playing them “correctly”. But if you don’t like iterating your designs (not everyone does, and that’s OK), then these are probably not the right genre for you.
I’ve been sucked into Factorio quite thoroughly, until the automation, optimization and debugging started feeling too much like what I do at work. I mean, I enjoy the process (which is why I got this work in the first place), but doing it in my free time as well is a bit much
Yeah, I have to take breaks sometimes and be in the right mood. I find that I like to play more when I’m going through a boring patch at work and I need something mentally stimulating.
skulblaka@sh.itjust.works
on 11 Sep 06:04
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Check out Shapez 2. The first game was pretty basic but I really enjoy S2 as a Factorio lite. It’s much much less complex, but there’s still plenty of room to build crazy contraptions as you unlock more stuff to build with. Most major upgrades will make you want to refactor your whole base, but after you finish delivering a certain type of shape you no longer need to make more (except sometimes as components for new shapes). So I’ll pretty regularly knock out like half my factory and make a new and improved assembly line for the new shape I need to deliver.
It’s good, give it a look. I get quite sucked into it and it doesn’t have as much mental overhead as Factorio does. There’s also no biters, which makes it a much more relaxing factory game.
Played shapes2 and it is really fun but for me it feels heavier. When i play some Factorio mods there are times when it gets overwhelming and shapes have the same problem for me. Takes a couple of days or weeks to recover.
Also the rebuild everything thing in shapes 2 is not really true. When you get a few hours into the game the stuff you deliver is stuff you want to deliver forever to gain operator levels. The secondary stuff that isn’t forever stuff is what makes me give up. Fatigue of rebuild or something… Good thing we are all different :)
I’m not the type of guy for these games at all, but satisfactory is super fun to me. Even if i suck and my factories look like an absolute nightmare. The fun thing about satisfactory is that you can brute force so much bullshit until it all goes more and more to shit.
sanctimoniousn0rth@lemmy.world
on 10 Sep 17:18
nextcollapse
You’re comparing a 2d custom engine. Which admittedly you wouldn’t expect to have multiple os support…but it’s built on allegro, which is open source c++.
To a 3d game in Unreal Engine 5, which stresses even the best systems running dedicated gpus on windows. Do many macs offer dedicated gpus these days?
I don’t think i ever made it to tier 4 either. My factory always collapses from the weight of my own incompetence. The funniest thing to me is to play as far as i get, stop and come back a month or two later and try to figure out what i did.
MY_ANUS_IS_BLEEDING@lemm.ee
on 11 Sep 11:23
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I always get to the part with nuclear power, then I take a look at the space elevator objective recipes, realise I need to multiply my factory size by about 20 and just nope out
As much as I love the game, and I will get into random hyper focus mode and will multiply the size of my factory by a large amount, the later tiers are much more accessible when playing with friends.
threaded - newest
Remove EOS and I’m gonna buy it
What’s the downside to it? It enables cross play.
The owner of it is a bad person 🤷♂️
Wait until you learn what engine they’re using and who they pay royalties to.
Eh I know. But the engine itself isn’t bad 🤷♂️
But their primary networking plugin is?
Yes, more than the engine. I’m not saying I love the engine tho… Let’s say it’s below everything else 🤔
Now that’s a hot take.
Trying to be the Adobe of game engines is fine, but their online service is the line in the sand?
Bruh I just said it’s not the worst thing. The bareback launcher, Tim’s small brain and EOS are much worse
That’s your right and I support you but… If your standard is “I don’t buy products that are made by bad people”… You’re gonna have a tough time. No such thing as ethical capitalism and all that.
The problem is what they did and still doing🤷♂️ they could offer something better rather that trying to buy people with free games
Brother it’s on other platforms… What’s your complaint? It’s a UE5 game 🧐
The people behind OES
I dislike Sweeny et al more than most, but do you boycott all UE games?
The problem is not UE tho
They’re both Epic, my guy – do you just specifically dislike one of the engineers working on EOS or what?
I said the problem is not UE, I didn’t say i love it, did I? I only said the engine is not the problem if it’s not infested with EOS. Games that force it now or retroactively add it are the big problem, EOS and Tim is the second problem
But… Why? I don’t understand why you would be okay with using a company’s engine but not their online services. Is it a privacy issue? You don’t even have to log in to Epic unless you want cross platform play.
I don’t use it nor I’m okay using it.
You’re forced to use their launcher and have an account with them. I wouldn’t really mind an account to use the engine (if I was good at making games! But that’s another problem 🤷♂️) but why is it tied tookay I was gonna make an argument at why is the engine tied to a launcher but steam is the same (I knew but checked to be sure) not that I care much in both cases tho.The problem is I don’t trust epic and their EOS since they have a bad reputation for what they do and did.
You don’t have to install the launcher to play games that use EOS. You don’t have to make an account unless you want to log into Epic, which is not necessary to play the game (unless of course you bought it on the epic store).
The only arguably bad thing about EOS’ inclusion is that it can collect some telemetry about you, which Epic currently claims to be pretty sparse.
Yes, I know but the problem is that it gets installed with the game even if you don’t want it, it’s used even with single player games and deleting it, the game refuses to launch. Why single player games need it? No, the “for Telemetry purposes” is not a valid answer. I don’t want it on my system, period. We can argue whether it’s the dev or not since I’m sure (assumption since I’m not a dev nor I know one) it’s not the dev that decides to add it. Damn, I wish I could remember which game didn’t work with eos dll removed (happened months ago). Ooh Apex Legends (good or not, don’t care about it) added eos mandatory, if you block your pc to phoning home (hosts file) to epic, it refuses to launch. WHY?!
If Satisfactory can run in single player (don’t care about multi nor I have friends lol) without the eos dll and updates don’t add it back, maybe I’ll think about it but I can’t test it since I don’t own the game.
I mean, it’s there so the game can utilize Epic’s online services, like achievements. Doing so requires the use of the EOS SDK. So it’s not like they can just include a check box to disable the functionality; that would require an entirely separate release of the game. It’s already not doing anything besides making sure the EOS server exists unless you’re engaging with Epic systems. At least that’s the case for dedicated servers, but I would assume that it’s the same if you only select Steam multiplayer (or single player mode).
Risk of rain? Is the first that comes in mind. You can also delete it and works great. I try to avoid as much as possible and if I can’t because bought before knowing or added later, I delete the file, if it doesn’t work I’m refunding it. It’s dumb? Yeah. I’ll keep doing it? Yes
I don’t get this. If bought on steam it should NOT use it by default and using it SHOULD be optional, off by default and toggleable in settings.
As I said above: If the game can run without the file, I think about buying it
RoR is likely turning off some of the functionality but the EOS SDK is still used in the binary. I’m assuming here, I don’t know the specific implementation, but if there’s a check box and you don’t need to restart the whole game after checking it, there’s no way it’s somehow removing EOS from the program. It likely just disables various functionality, but I bet it’s still making a couple calls to verify the existence of the EOS network, just like Satisfactory does.
Games (and programs in general) have to be built with support for any environments they want to run on. If you want to release your game on multiple storefronts and take advantage of their built in social functions, you need to build in support for those functions, even if they won’t be used in some cases.
Not if you delete the dll file, unless it’s both inthe dll and the exe…?
I think it requires a restart but it’s off by default, it asks when you first run it (first install? Each install?) And you can disable it but after deleting the .dll file, the game runs perfectly fine
I guess? But some people aren’t really happy with these changes, especially old games where it gets added or the fact is required in a single-player only game
DLLs are libraries that get called by the binary. So deleting the DLL stops any calls from executing, but the code still contains calls to the SDK.
Go ahead and boycott any game that uses EOS, but it’s a weird hill to die on.
But if it’s deleting it stops any call then it’s like not having it in the first place
Nah, don’t care. Devs are learning where is better to release games (aka not exclusively) soo🤷♂️ it’s a matter of time and we’ll either see it die or adapt and make something worth using and not trying to be a monopoly
But… you’re basically arguing for more exclusivity by effectively boycotting the majority of products that choose to release on the Epic store, as most of them will include EOS functionality. Why is steamworks fine?
I’m a valve fanboy but they’re only company that’s even got a prayer of monopolizing the PC games market. Epic is if anything an anti-monopolistic force here – the Unreal Engine is the Epic product that’s threatening market dominance.
No because a lot of people hate the exclusives and they don’t buy those games, devs will realize it (one day). Look at how Ubi went back to steam, Square too🤷♂️
Honestly, a eos+steamworks would be better 🤷♂️ but even a simple “cross platform” (epic/steam) would work.
Is epic anti-monopolistic? Are you sure?
I agree that the exclusivity is a bummer, but on the other hand multiple games exist today that would not without Epic’s funding. I just don’t buy games on the Epic store (everything I own on there was from a free giveaway). When they come to Steam, I get to buy them on my platform of choice, and the injection of capital means they’re much further along than they would be otherwise, if they would even exist without the funding. I just think of it as an Early Access period.
Yes, from an objective standpoint I would of course prefer an open cross-platform standard, but while it’s the sort of thing I could see Steam adopting and even contributing to, Epic definitely wants the lock-in. And while Epic would obviously love to be a monopoly, as long as they have less market share than Steam, they’re an anti-monopolistic force as a direct competitor to Steam.
In this scenario, boycotting games that include the EOS SDK is a pointless gesture and the only reason to do so is if you’re worried about the telemetry in the SDK, which from the documentation and from Satisfactory dedicated server logs is pretty minimal unless you log into Epic through the game. It sounds like your main issue is the exclusivity, which has nothing to do with the SDK, and would be effectively “voted against with your wallet” by just not spending money on the Epic store. But as long as Epic keeps offering significant chunks of cash for timed exclusivity, it will remain an extremely attractive deal for any game without significant pre-relrase hype.
Sorry! Honestly I like this loooong talk
Maybe but why make them exclusive? Look at the recent alan wake 2. A complete flop because they released on a platform no one wants to buy and remedy recoup the dev costs from it.
If you buy them day one on Steam doesn’t that mean you’re fine to wait and tell devs/pubs that exclusivity is good? They get money from epic for going exclusive then on Steam again, doesn’t it incentives more exclusives?
I wouldn’t call it a “competitor”. To be a competitor you should offer something that people can like like new features or copy stuff others have and make it better, I guess? Why don’t you make something useful like helping/funding part of the handheld/linux development? Wouldn’t that be awesome instead of throwing money at will hoping to get a few users to use your (IMO) inferior platform?
Look at what they did: bought rocket league, removed from steam (WHY?) and transformed it into a garbage shit requiring epic account. I don’t own it nor I’ve ever played it (if we don’t count the free trial downloaded somewhere).
No, Im not gonna trust someone who does what is currently doing right now, like paying for exclusives, so if the dll method doesn’t work im gonna refund it. I don’t care how pointless that is.
My main issue is exclusives (especially the timed exclusives from PS, but 🤷♂️) and also the person behind Epic. There’s nothing that makes me want to use the store or have anything to do with them.
I’m not them, but I dislike Epic Online Servies, too. Last time I read the terms document, it granted permission for way too much data collection, and I’m not a fan of spyware.
You don’t have to log in to Epic unless you want to play with Epic users.
That’s not how EOS works.
I mean if you don’t log in, at least the dedicated server only makes two calls to EOS. The SDK is in the game, sure, but if you’re not logging in to Epic then I don’t really see the threat. It seems like classic sinophobia to be totally blasé about any data Steam (or Coffee Stain) want to collect, but to avoid the entire product because Tencent might be able to associate your IP with the fact that you own the game.
If it helps, you’re not logged into EOS automatically anymore in 1.0. You have the option for direct IP connect, Steam, or EOS.
Not gonna trust devs who use it tho
.
Nice, I happen to be on vacation this month. Should have lots of time to build the factory
Factory must keep running!
Remember, it’s not just fun. It’s contractually obligated fun fun fun!
I got this game for free a while back in a Reddit competition lol, might have to get back into it.
Oohh nice, even tho i’m not really the right person for such a game.
I keep losing track and starting over, then realizing i want it to look cooler…start rebuilding and lose interest and drop the game fir quite a time until i find out i lost track and start the cycle over again.
Everything except the losing interest part is what people love about factory games. So while they have your interest, realize that you are absolutely playing them “correctly”. But if you don’t like iterating your designs (not everyone does, and that’s OK), then these are probably not the right genre for you.
I’ve been sucked into Factorio quite thoroughly, until the automation, optimization and debugging started feeling too much like what I do at work. I mean, I enjoy the process (which is why I got this work in the first place), but doing it in my free time as well is a bit much
Yeah, I have to take breaks sometimes and be in the right mood. I find that I like to play more when I’m going through a boring patch at work and I need something mentally stimulating.
Check out Shapez 2. The first game was pretty basic but I really enjoy S2 as a Factorio lite. It’s much much less complex, but there’s still plenty of room to build crazy contraptions as you unlock more stuff to build with. Most major upgrades will make you want to refactor your whole base, but after you finish delivering a certain type of shape you no longer need to make more (except sometimes as components for new shapes). So I’ll pretty regularly knock out like half my factory and make a new and improved assembly line for the new shape I need to deliver.
It’s good, give it a look. I get quite sucked into it and it doesn’t have as much mental overhead as Factorio does. There’s also no biters, which makes it a much more relaxing factory game.
I’ve enjoyed shapez 1 a lot, back when it was shapez.io. Definitely giving the sequel a try.
Played shapes2 and it is really fun but for me it feels heavier. When i play some Factorio mods there are times when it gets overwhelming and shapes have the same problem for me. Takes a couple of days or weeks to recover.
Also the rebuild everything thing in shapes 2 is not really true. When you get a few hours into the game the stuff you deliver is stuff you want to deliver forever to gain operator levels. The secondary stuff that isn’t forever stuff is what makes me give up. Fatigue of rebuild or something… Good thing we are all different :)
I’m not the type of guy for these games at all, but satisfactory is super fun to me. Even if i suck and my factories look like an absolute nightmare. The fun thing about satisfactory is that you can brute force so much bullshit until it all goes more and more to shit.
No macOS 😑
If you want to game on your mac your best bet is dualbooting with linux
Well yeah, why develop for an actively hostile OS?
.
You’re comparing a 2d custom engine. Which admittedly you wouldn’t expect to have multiple os support…but it’s built on allegro, which is open source c++.
To a 3d game in Unreal Engine 5, which stresses even the best systems running dedicated gpus on windows. Do many macs offer dedicated gpus these days?
Damn shame this comment section turned into an EOS battleground. This game is worth a hell of a lot more than that.
Have I ever made it further than tier 4? No. Will I start new playthroughs countless more times in an effort to? Hell yes.
I don’t think i ever made it to tier 4 either. My factory always collapses from the weight of my own incompetence. The funniest thing to me is to play as far as i get, stop and come back a month or two later and try to figure out what i did.
I always get to the part with nuclear power, then I take a look at the space elevator objective recipes, realise I need to multiply my factory size by about 20 and just nope out
As much as I love the game, and I will get into random hyper focus mode and will multiply the size of my factory by a large amount, the later tiers are much more accessible when playing with friends.
I’m waiting for the LGIO review to buy.
Pretty soon, he posted a screenshot on twitter recently.
I wonder if he got an advance copy?
That’s pretty likely. I imagine his shenanigans take quite some time haha