truthfultemporarily@feddit.org
on 24 Sep 07:56
nextcollapse
This is actually really interesting!
This taxable individual, Kokott explains, was found to have bought and resold through “various forums, groups, and platforms such as Facebook, Discord, and Skype” enough RuneScape gold to earn €415,484—approximately $488,000 USD—between 2021 and 2023.
They then were ordered to backpay VAT because they made above 45k. Defendant says trading virtual currencies is like trading crypto, and VAT exempt. Government says its like selling a voucher instead.
Its corner cases like this one that make taxes complicated for regular people.
I also find it hilarious that tax lawyers and accountants will have to read that court decision.
ICastFist@programming.dev
on 24 Sep 11:28
collapse
Shit, sounds like I should set up some runescape bots to sell gold, even if I only get like 10k USD a year, that’s doubling my income
You don’t pay VAT on a personal transaction though. But the girlfriend would probably have to pay income tax.
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 24 Sep 08:53
collapse
We should know if the gf is selling herself as a second hand sale or if it’s a recurring economic activity. If so, she should register in VAT and collect it.
(Legality of that economic activity may differ by country)
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social
on 24 Sep 10:04
collapse
Depending on the country, and depending on the gift, yes. Though it’s mostly not enforced.
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
on 24 Sep 08:14
nextcollapse
Yeah seems like the writer of the PC Gamer article doesn’t understand what VAT is.
To laymen like you and I, this situation probably seems pretty open and shut. If you make money on something, you pay taxes on it.
Yeah VAT is not a tax on money made. VAT is a tax that is applied to a transaction for goods and service between a business and a consumer. VAT is a tax that the consumer pays. The business only collects it and has the obligation to pay it to the tax services. So even if a business makes zero profit they still need to pay the VAT they collected.
The question here was if RuneScape gold is a product or if it is legal tender. If it was legal tender then you don’t pay VAT on it, similar to when if you trade one currency to another VAT is not applied.
The question here was if RuneScape gold is a product or if it is legal tender. If it was legal tender then you don’t pay VAT on it, similar to when if you trade one currency to another VAT is not applied.
Even if they went that way (good luck with that), doesn’t that mean farming gold regularly and for profit should still be registered as a professional activity? Or at least the result of it declared as revenue?
The real genius behind VAT is that it isn’t just applied to transactions between business and consumer, but to all transactions. The rule is normally very simple, it’s applied to all transactions, with few exceptions. The rate can vary, but those rules are also usually very simple. The trick is: When a business has a transaction with another business, VAT is still applied, but the selling party has to levy the tax and forward it to the government and the purchasing party can ask the government to give back the tax they paid on the transaction.
This may seem a bit convoluted, where the tax goes through the government only to end up back in the business. But this ensures the tax is applied always. Normally a profitable company would sell their products for more than the components they purchased. The difference between these two is the value added. And by getting back less from the purchases as what they have to pay for sales, the tax is only applied to the value added. And for consumers it functions as a sales tax, being applied to all transactions and no way around it.
This system is way harder to mess with than any other form of sales tax. The rules are simple with few exceptions and thus very easy to reinforce. It’s also a more fair system, where each party in the chain pays a part instead of the consumer paying for all of it.
In the end the consumer pays most, but as the taxes are supposed to be used to make their lives better, it seems like a fair deal? Now if you have a government that’s more about filling their own pockets than actually doing what they need to do to improve the lives of the people living there, well then you are going to have a bad day. But that doesn’t happen in civilized countries right?
Yeah EU VAT opened up a whole can of issues. It’s super complicated and annoying, with all sorts of weird exceptions. The exact opposite of what VAT was supposed to be. EU countries should have just gotten their shit together instead of this patch work.
I’ve actually seen that fraud in action. People used to ship around huge amounts of phones and CPUs, because they were high value, but took up very little room. A truck full of pallets of tray CPUs could be worth a huge amount.
I think now most of the holes are patched. But for a while there were special rules surrounding phones and CPUs just because they were often used in the fraud scheme.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
on 24 Sep 08:29
nextcollapse
Okay that’s not nothing but 200 000€ / year is hardly top 1% in EU, I think.
This is what slop gave me:
Based on available data on income distribution in Europe, a rough estimate for a gross annual individual salary to be in the top 1% across the EU would likely fall above €200,000.
When I asked how much you’d need to make in a year to be in EU top 1%. Didn’t even mention 200 000.
So yeah upper class but not necessarily top 1%. In Lithuania they’re probably top1% but not on the EU level.
Sorry for being pedantic, you were close enough tho
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
on 25 Sep 05:14
collapse
According to the German (I have not found an EU equivalent) office for statistics, you are part of the top 1% of full-time workers if you earn >213,286€ per year:
Sure, this doesn’t include billionaires who don’t work but there just aren’t enough of them to matter. It’s not like there are hundreds of thousands billionaires in Germany.
Someplaceunknown@leminal.space
on 24 Sep 11:34
nextcollapse
RuneScape still exists?
crumbguzzler5000@feddit.org
on 24 Sep 12:23
nextcollapse
Yer god damn right it does! Nostalgia is a helluva drug.
commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 24 Sep 15:51
collapse
OSRS is legit on its way to become bigger than it was in 2007 on miniclip days, it broke 250k players recently I believe, there’s also been a WoW streamer exodus towards OSRS too
Food safety organs need to inspect all those Stardew Valley farms.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
on 25 Sep 01:40
nextcollapse
I dunno about the tax laws here. Seems anything purchased in game with fake game money that stays in game shouldn’t be subject to a sales tax. Buying game currency with real currency? Sure. Buying real things by selling in-game accounts or items for real money? Fine.
threaded - newest
This is actually really interesting!
They then were ordered to backpay VAT because they made above 45k. Defendant says trading virtual currencies is like trading crypto, and VAT exempt. Government says its like selling a voucher instead.
Its corner cases like this one that make taxes complicated for regular people.
I also find it hilarious that tax lawyers and accountants will have to read that court decision.
Shit, sounds like I should set up some runescape bots to sell gold, even if I only get like 10k USD a year, that’s doubling my income
Damn, good use of their time! Not going after trillionaries, no.
Can I get taxed if I buy a gf for 25k?
Yeah you pay VAT because you are buying a service. But your “gf” has to collect it and pay it to the tax agency.
You don’t pay VAT on a personal transaction though. But the girlfriend would probably have to pay income tax.
We should know if the gf is selling herself as a second hand sale or if it’s a recurring economic activity. If so, she should register in VAT and collect it.
(Legality of that economic activity may differ by country)
Depending on the country, and depending on the gift, yes. Though it’s mostly not enforced.
Yeah seems like the writer of the PC Gamer article doesn’t understand what VAT is.
Yeah VAT is not a tax on money made. VAT is a tax that is applied to a transaction for goods and service between a business and a consumer. VAT is a tax that the consumer pays. The business only collects it and has the obligation to pay it to the tax services. So even if a business makes zero profit they still need to pay the VAT they collected.
The question here was if RuneScape gold is a product or if it is legal tender. If it was legal tender then you don’t pay VAT on it, similar to when if you trade one currency to another VAT is not applied.
If Runescape gold is legal tender, do I have to pay taxes on my earnings from my Zulrah grind?
Probably income tax or a gambling tax like what you’d pay if you win money one a game show. But there is a threshold, so tax free for small earnings.
Yeah, that’s why they added the GE tax
Even if they went that way (good luck with that), doesn’t that mean farming gold regularly and for profit should still be registered as a professional activity? Or at least the result of it declared as revenue?
I don’t think they want that.
Of course he still needs to pay income tax. But that’s something else from VAT.
Speaks greatly for the quality of pcgamer. Guess the schools in the USA aren’t the very best.
to be fair, I don’t think any US state has VAT.
AFAIK they do? Different even in every state.
Many US states have sales tax, but I don’t think it counts as VAT.
Ah right, just a sales-tax. I should’ve shut up 😁
The real genius behind VAT is that it isn’t just applied to transactions between business and consumer, but to all transactions. The rule is normally very simple, it’s applied to all transactions, with few exceptions. The rate can vary, but those rules are also usually very simple. The trick is: When a business has a transaction with another business, VAT is still applied, but the selling party has to levy the tax and forward it to the government and the purchasing party can ask the government to give back the tax they paid on the transaction.
This may seem a bit convoluted, where the tax goes through the government only to end up back in the business. But this ensures the tax is applied always. Normally a profitable company would sell their products for more than the components they purchased. The difference between these two is the value added. And by getting back less from the purchases as what they have to pay for sales, the tax is only applied to the value added. And for consumers it functions as a sales tax, being applied to all transactions and no way around it.
This system is way harder to mess with than any other form of sales tax. The rules are simple with few exceptions and thus very easy to reinforce. It’s also a more fair system, where each party in the chain pays a part instead of the consumer paying for all of it.
In the end the consumer pays most, but as the taxes are supposed to be used to make their lives better, it seems like a fair deal? Now if you have a government that’s more about filling their own pockets than actually doing what they need to do to improve the lives of the people living there, well then you are going to have a bad day. But that doesn’t happen in civilized countries right?
VAT fraud is harder but my god when some people achieved it they pretty much unlocked a money spawn glitch IRL…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_trader_fraud?wprov=…
Yeah EU VAT opened up a whole can of issues. It’s super complicated and annoying, with all sorts of weird exceptions. The exact opposite of what VAT was supposed to be. EU countries should have just gotten their shit together instead of this patch work.
I’ve actually seen that fraud in action. People used to ship around huge amounts of phones and CPUs, because they were high value, but took up very little room. A truck full of pallets of tray CPUs could be worth a huge amount.
I think now most of the holes are patched. But for a while there were special rules surrounding phones and CPUs just because they were often used in the fraud scheme.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/7d181d8c-050c-45fc-b0ed-32eb45759add.jpeg">
Earning 400,000€ in two years makes you part of the 1% though?? Where else would this guy be? Upper middle class?
Okay that’s not nothing but 200 000€ / year is hardly top 1% in EU, I think.
This is what slop gave me:
When I asked how much you’d need to make in a year to be in EU top 1%. Didn’t even mention 200 000.
So yeah upper class but not necessarily top 1%. In Lithuania they’re probably top1% but not on the EU level.
Sorry for being pedantic, you were close enough tho
According to the German (I have not found an EU equivalent) office for statistics, you are part of the top 1% of full-time workers if you earn >213,286€ per year:
www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/…/PD25_134_621.html
Sure, this doesn’t include billionaires who don’t work but there just aren’t enough of them to matter. It’s not like there are hundreds of thousands billionaires in Germany.
RuneScape still exists?
Yer god damn right it does! Nostalgia is a helluva drug.
OSRS is legit on its way to become bigger than it was in 2007 on miniclip days, it broke 250k players recently I believe, there’s also been a WoW streamer exodus towards OSRS too
So yes
Food safety organs need to inspect all those Stardew Valley farms.
I dunno about the tax laws here. Seems anything purchased in game with fake game money that stays in game shouldn’t be subject to a sales tax. Buying game currency with real currency? Sure. Buying real things by selling in-game accounts or items for real money? Fine.
Anyone from Czech/Slovak Republic here?
I know it’s infantile, but.