If not for this, I would've chalked this up to the designs being abstract enough that it'd be feasible for two separate artists to have come up with them independently. The fact that he was following the artist is a bit damning.
It's a shame, because he's a fantastic artist, himself, but this is definitely going to soil his reputation, and probably calls into question some of his earlier pieces, as well.
That’s what I don’t get. Presumably there is some lore behind this game (unless they really are that lazy) so why don’t they just use one of the companies that they definitely have for the game
If you think that’s “abstract enough”, I’m guessing you’re either a plagiarist or an “AI artist”. Or do you want to admit that you didn’t really look at the comparison images?
More pics are coming out. One of them has the artist’s handle in it. Original art is the yellow to the right. Whoever added it to the game intentionally smudged the name, but left enough of it to be readabale.
Which is not much but it’s weird it has happened 5 times this last 3 years
Eggyhead@lemmings.world
on 16 May 06:24
nextcollapse
NGL, it seems really practical that it was intended to be placeholder concept art that someone forgot to go in and replace.
That said, this artist they took so much inspiration from definitely deserves a place in the game’s credits at this point. Whether they actually use his art in game or not.
Placeholder doesn’t need to be anything more than basic featureless textures on cubes, and you should own them completely. If you made your placeholder to look like it fits, you’re asking for it to be forgotten and left in place. Which might not be too bad if it’s finally not too out of place and it’s yours.
Especially in a professional studio, they should know better than using stuff they just “found” as placeholder. To me it’s either terrible incompetence… or worse, they thought nobody would care anyway.
Eggyhead@lemmings.world
on 16 May 15:43
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Didn’t they get caught doing this with destiny as well? It makes me wonder if it’s a studio culture thing. You’re 200% right in what they should be doing, but I still am inclined to think this is more likely an incompetence thing than malice.
Absolutely. Now that people are paying attention, it’ll be easier to spot.
BreakerSwitch@lemm.ee
on 16 May 23:40
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I will say, placeholder SHOULD be more than basic featureless textures on cubes so it can’t make it to a playtest without knowing about it.
You know, like this.
Placeholder kittens are always distinct, in my book. Plus if something subtly gets through, players will think it’s a hilarious easter egg
I’ve been in and out of games for my entire career. Every place I’ve been has had strict policies on outside art assets. I’ve even seen every new art asset to require a monthly license review to prevent any chance of outside art having slipped in somehow, including any usage of Blender’s example model Suzanne.
But I really wonder about the stuff at bungie being “just” incompetence, because their defence is “weren’t aware of this, just used assets left by a former Bungie employee that’s not here anymore”… And yet the art director had been following the plagiarized artist on twitter this whole time.
And they have an history of “just taking” when they think they can get away with it, as they’ve done with fanart. So, shitty studio culture sounds a definite possibility at that point.
They’re doing it again! Bungie has fallen far, completely incompetent management.
A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world
on 16 May 11:10
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It’s such a damn shame, too. Destiny 2 was some of the most fun I’ve had in gaming over the last decade. Absolutely jaw-dropping environments at times, clever encounter designs, the gunplay, so many things to love. And I have no doubt Marathon will be a hell of a thing from what I’ve seen. These people can design a game.
But GODDAMN stop stealing art from people. Upper management has got to be atrocious with all the bullshit they’ve pulled over the years. And you know that bullshit starts at C-suite and rolls downhill.
It’s surprising how few people at the top you need to change in order to change a company culture. One of the companies that I regularly work with has gone from being a nightmare because we could never get information out of them, to a nightmare because of how whiny and demanding they’ve become. That was the result of the CEO changing, that’s it one person and it results in a totally different corporate personality.
A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world
on 17 May 13:24
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Dictatorships be like that. You never hear about these problems with co-ops, just saying…
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world
on 16 May 18:01
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Is it only the management though? You mean to tell me absolutely none of the artists knew about this, or that literally ONLY ONE “ex-employee” artist knew this was going on among the art team? Do Bungie only have one artist making art assets for textures across various objects, as well as assets they use on their website and in their trailers?
“Ex-employee” is a scapegoat, but I guarantee you there was more than one artist, entirely unrelated to management, that knew this was going on and will happily blame the scapegoat to absolve themselves of their involvement.
Is it far fetched to say their art team could be large, but also underpaid and ignored it so the work was done? Not right but sums up my work experience in an entirely unrelated and uncreative field.
Really just devil’s advocate, im curious for any corporate artist opinion
Although judging by this news and the first sentence on their Steam page being “…Bungie’s team-based extraction shooter.”, maybe it’s a good thing I can’t play their games.
Master167@lemmy.world
on 16 May 15:15
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“Bungie is making a new game based on Marathon”
Great, I’m in.
“It’s a multi-player extraction shooter”
Nope, I’m out. This smells like a “Prey” situation.
It did at one point, but I think they were forced to change it to Prey at some point in development. It had a “Shock” title to put it in line with System Shock and Bioshock.
RidgeDweller@sh.itjust.works
on 17 May 14:46
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That rings a bell now that you mention it. A shock title is so much more fitting!
It was really good. I just wanted more indigenous themes if they were going to use the Prey name. It was such a disappointment in that respect.
Tattorack@lemmy.world
on 16 May 16:21
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The best thing about Marathon is the shortfilm. Watch that. Then ignore the game.
slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org
on 17 May 06:39
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I watched people play the game and was wondering what the hype was all about. The game looked so dull and boring. The outside of the map looled like a game made by a single dev for his indie game.
Only yesterday i watched the short film and was loke: oooooooh, i get it, because they lie.
Im so tried of all these multiplayer games, make a goddamn single player campaign, fuck it add in splitscreen or the ability to play the campaign with friends if you have too
ABetterTomorrow@lemm.ee
on 16 May 13:37
nextcollapse
When you have money and power then get caught doing something, ask for forgiveness and create a awful situation to pay the artist less and throw in that small tiny hint of “no more money later, no royalties, we own everything and you get small check….byeeeeeee” (aka the middle finger)
MisterOwl@lemmy.world
on 16 May 15:28
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Senator, I know Marathon. I served with Marathon. You are no Marathon.
I remember when Bungie made cool stuff like Myth the fallen lords.
FuckFascism@lemmy.world
on 17 May 06:54
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Halo too, Bungie is honestly just a totally different studio than it used to be.
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net
on 17 May 15:52
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And Oni!
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world
on 17 May 20:55
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And then they made Myth II, which they had to recall (that almost bankrupted their company) because trying to uninstall it could delete your system folder and brick your PC.
At least with Myth II, Bungie actually made the right call and did the right thing.
Nobody has been able to explain to me how this new game has fucking anything to do with Marathon.
blargle@sh.itjust.works
on 17 May 08:48
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Does it even have Pfhor in it…?
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
on 17 May 11:04
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This is just parading a corpse around. Glad I never got into Destiny.
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
on 17 May 14:25
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I did. Luckily there were points where it was shit enough to be able to leave without looking back.
I beat The Black Heart, Atheon, Crota, Oryx, Siva, Xol, Ghaul, Calus, Riven, Nezerac, Savathun, and The Witness, plus AlakHul, Atraks, Sepiks, Taniks, the Forsaken Baron, a bunch of Vex Gatelords and Overminds… I rediscovered 3 Dark Subclasses plus a fourth Light one and then merged them, I became an Iron Lord, a Dregden and went to Osiris’ Lighthouse in D1 and D2, healed the Traveller (twice), I witnessed my own funeral in the Corridors of Time, bringing back Saint 14, I saved and killed Rasputin and Prince/Crow, became Taken and beat Sword Logic, Vex Simulations, and Nightmares themselves: including the real world that’s four entire realities I conquered and I communed with The Long Boi In The Soup. I saw the whole story through. Anything that happens now is of lesser concern, so I can leave.
For me the big mistake started with the Dreaming City: when the world first raid changed the game for other players- I wasn’t the main character any more and canonically all the raids and boss fights after that were done by other players, and mine (canonically even!) just fantasized about it pretending I was there. Even in the very last fight against the Witness, canonically, I was just one of hundreds of thousands in a faceless army that defeated it together.
FunkyElectro@pawb.social
on 17 May 11:18
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“Plagiarism exists, therefore a plagiarism machine can’t be wrong!”
lol gtfoh
TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works
on 17 May 14:20
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Congrats, your take is even dumber than bungie
Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works
on 17 May 16:45
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Decent bait. Three bites, not bad.
The solution, for anyone else wondering, is derived by simplification.
“If theft is bad, why is the alternative, theft again, also bad?”
It’s a nonsense statement made by a moron.
fuzzywombat@lemmy.world
on 17 May 12:50
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This is fourth time a confirmed plagiarism occurred at Bungie in recent years. There is also an ongoing lawsuit over accusation of Red War story theft. This isn’t some lone rogue employee issue. It’s a company culture issue originating from the top. I think Sony needs to step in and clean house to address the systemic problem.
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
on 17 May 14:13
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Sony exec: I have a fever and the only antidote is more micro transactions
LettyWhiterock@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 17 May 14:53
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They just keep doing it. I haven’t played any of their post-halo games and it seems like it’s going to stay that way. Feels like controversy after controversy. Removing content from Destiny 2. Stealing art. Stealing art. Stealing art. Stealing art…
I really wanted to like Destiny 2, but then they started releasing expansion packs faster than I could feasibly buy or play them. Then I learned that most of those expansions had no content anymore anyway because they think removing content is a good idea, so I just gave up.
Sadly it seems like they really would have been better off as a Halo-Making Machine like Microsoft wanted them to be.
CrowAirbrush@lemmy.world
on 17 May 18:03
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I would be sad for the good artist and developers at bungie to loose their jobs. Hopefully they are more careful and the artist ends up happy with the result of their talks.
Yeah, i do hope it hurts their reputation and game sales. I think we 99% agree. Hopefully this results in better games without ethical lapses in the future.
threaded - newest
The art director followed Antireal on Twitter.
Stop the bullshit. They knew what they were doing
If not for this, I would've chalked this up to the designs being abstract enough that it'd be feasible for two separate artists to have come up with them independently. The fact that he was following the artist is a bit damning.
It's a shame, because he's a fantastic artist, himself, but this is definitely going to soil his reputation, and probably calls into question some of his earlier pieces, as well.
They could just market it as “with Art by Antireal” and give him the commission and fame he deserves…
They copied the text and the name of a made up company. That’s so blatant I can’t believe nobody just asked “wait, is that on our lore or something?”
That’s what I don’t get. Presumably there is some lore behind this game (unless they really are that lazy) so why don’t they just use one of the companies that they definitely have for the game
So abstract they contain the artist’s personal logo.
They copy-pasted text and personal logo.
If you think that’s “abstract enough”, I’m guessing you’re either a plagiarist or an “AI artist”. Or do you want to admit that you didn’t really look at the comparison images?
You're already like five comments deep into an argument that hasn't even happened yet, calm down.
I only see the first of the comparison images linked here. The line of identical symbols inside squares is pretty convincing.
The second image contains lines of text copied verbatim, and is undeniable.
bsky.app/profile/antire.al/post/3lpa4gamtzs2l
More pics are coming out. One of them has the artist’s handle in it. Original art is the yellow to the right. Whoever added it to the game intentionally smudged the name, but left enough of it to be readabale.
<img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/5cae0af1-0891-4376-ab8d-54c842a0bb06.jpeg">
bsky.app/profile/…/3lpafkzimqc2x
Some of the stuff has the artist’s logo still on it.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2c9cb938-1cba-4312-b940-d96d2e2f86ca.jpeg">
if i had a nickel for every time bungie stole art i could afford to pay for that art
Which is not much but it’s weird it has happened 5 times this last 3 years
NGL, it seems really practical that it was intended to be placeholder concept art that someone forgot to go in and replace.
That said, this artist they took so much inspiration from definitely deserves a place in the game’s credits at this point. Whether they actually use his art in game or not.
Placeholder doesn’t need to be anything more than basic featureless textures on cubes, and you should own them completely. If you made your placeholder to look like it fits, you’re asking for it to be forgotten and left in place. Which might not be too bad if it’s finally not too out of place and it’s yours.
Especially in a professional studio, they should know better than using stuff they just “found” as placeholder. To me it’s either terrible incompetence… or worse, they thought nobody would care anyway.
Didn’t they get caught doing this with destiny as well? It makes me wonder if it’s a studio culture thing. You’re 200% right in what they should be doing, but I still am inclined to think this is more likely an incompetence thing than malice.
The fact they keep doing it leads me to believe we’re missing several instances where they’ve gotten away with it
Absolutely. Now that people are paying attention, it’ll be easier to spot.
I will say, placeholder SHOULD be more than basic featureless textures on cubes so it can’t make it to a playtest without knowing about it. You know, like this. Placeholder kittens are always distinct, in my book. Plus if something subtly gets through, players will think it’s a hilarious easter egg
Placeholder art should go in the place folder art folder. Then just before release you delete the placeholder folder.
Not JUST before release, that’s how you get entirely missing textures, but you’re not wrong.
This is incompetence.
I’ve been in and out of games for my entire career. Every place I’ve been has had strict policies on outside art assets. I’ve even seen every new art asset to require a monthly license review to prevent any chance of outside art having slipped in somehow, including any usage of Blender’s example model Suzanne.
This certainly sounds the right way to do this.
But I really wonder about the stuff at bungie being “just” incompetence, because their defence is “weren’t aware of this, just used assets left by a former Bungie employee that’s not here anymore”… And yet the art director had been following the plagiarized artist on twitter this whole time.
And they have an history of “just taking” when they think they can get away with it, as they’ve done with fanart. So, shitty studio culture sounds a definite possibility at that point.
They’re doing it again! Bungie has fallen far, completely incompetent management.
It’s such a damn shame, too. Destiny 2 was some of the most fun I’ve had in gaming over the last decade. Absolutely jaw-dropping environments at times, clever encounter designs, the gunplay, so many things to love. And I have no doubt Marathon will be a hell of a thing from what I’ve seen. These people can design a game.
But GODDAMN stop stealing art from people. Upper management has got to be atrocious with all the bullshit they’ve pulled over the years. And you know that bullshit starts at C-suite and rolls downhill.
Just a damn shame.
It’s surprising how few people at the top you need to change in order to change a company culture. One of the companies that I regularly work with has gone from being a nightmare because we could never get information out of them, to a nightmare because of how whiny and demanding they’ve become. That was the result of the CEO changing, that’s it one person and it results in a totally different corporate personality.
Dictatorships be like that. You never hear about these problems with co-ops, just saying…
Is it only the management though? You mean to tell me absolutely none of the artists knew about this, or that literally ONLY ONE “ex-employee” artist knew this was going on among the art team? Do Bungie only have one artist making art assets for textures across various objects, as well as assets they use on their website and in their trailers?
“Ex-employee” is a scapegoat, but I guarantee you there was more than one artist, entirely unrelated to management, that knew this was going on and will happily blame the scapegoat to absolve themselves of their involvement.
Is it far fetched to say their art team could be large, but also underpaid and ignored it so the work was done? Not right but sums up my work experience in an entirely unrelated and uncreative field.
Really just devil’s advocate, im curious for any corporate artist opinion
TIL that Bungie is releasing a new game.
Although judging by this news and the first sentence on their Steam page being “…Bungie’s team-based extraction shooter.”, maybe it’s a good thing I can’t play their games.
“Bungie is making a new game based on Marathon”
Great, I’m in.
“It’s a multi-player extraction shooter”
Nope, I’m out. This smells like a “Prey” situation.
I had the same reaction to Marathon as well as the new Black Hawk Down.
But Prey was actually good.
For real, immersive sim fans that haven’t played it are missing out. It probably should’ve had a different name though.
It did at one point, but I think they were forced to change it to Prey at some point in development. It had a “Shock” title to put it in line with System Shock and Bioshock.
That rings a bell now that you mention it. A shock title is so much more fitting!
Believe it was ‘Neuroshock’
Prey was sooo good.
Sucks for the people who wanted a continuation of the original tho.
prey 2 was going to be nothing like prey. I’m glad it didn’t happen tbh.
It was really good. I just wanted more indigenous themes if they were going to use the Prey name. It was such a disappointment in that respect.
The best thing about Marathon is the shortfilm. Watch that. Then ignore the game.
I watched people play the game and was wondering what the hype was all about. The game looked so dull and boring. The outside of the map looled like a game made by a single dev for his indie game. Only yesterday i watched the short film and was loke: oooooooh, i get it, because they lie.
Im so tried of all these multiplayer games, make a goddamn single player campaign, fuck it add in splitscreen or the ability to play the campaign with friends if you have too
When you have money and power then get caught doing something, ask for forgiveness and create a awful situation to pay the artist less and throw in that small tiny hint of “no more money later, no royalties, we own everything and you get small check….byeeeeeee” (aka the middle finger)
Senator, I know Marathon. I served with Marathon. You are no Marathon.
And I served a tour with Pathways Into Darkness.
I can’t see the company name without thinking about this scene from Red VS Blue
It does often seem that Tucker had it right the first time.
Insane Plagiarism in Marathon
Jake the Alright
www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6QdnV-chZk
I remember when Bungie made cool stuff like Myth the fallen lords.
Halo too, Bungie is honestly just a totally different studio than it used to be.
And Oni!
And then they made Myth II, which they had to recall (that almost bankrupted their company) because trying to uninstall it could delete your system folder and brick your PC.
At least with Myth II, Bungie actually made the right call and did the right thing.
Nobody has been able to explain to me how this new game has fucking anything to do with Marathon.
Does it even have Pfhor in it…?
This is just parading a corpse around. Glad I never got into Destiny.
I did. Luckily there were points where it was shit enough to be able to leave without looking back.
I beat The Black Heart, Atheon, Crota, Oryx, Siva, Xol, Ghaul, Calus, Riven, Nezerac, Savathun, and The Witness, plus AlakHul, Atraks, Sepiks, Taniks, the Forsaken Baron, a bunch of Vex Gatelords and Overminds… I rediscovered 3 Dark Subclasses plus a fourth Light one and then merged them, I became an Iron Lord, a Dregden and went to Osiris’ Lighthouse in D1 and D2, healed the Traveller (twice), I witnessed my own funeral in the Corridors of Time, bringing back Saint 14, I saved and killed Rasputin and Prince/Crow, became Taken and beat Sword Logic, Vex Simulations, and Nightmares themselves: including the real world that’s four entire realities I conquered and I communed with The Long Boi In The Soup. I saw the whole story through. Anything that happens now is of lesser concern, so I can leave.
For me the big mistake started with the Dreaming City: when the world first raid changed the game for other players- I wasn’t the main character any more and canonically all the raids and boss fights after that were done by other players, and mine (canonically even!) just fantasized about it pretending I was there. Even in the very last fight against the Witness, canonically, I was just one of hundreds of thousands in a faceless army that defeated it together.
They’re just stripping copper from the walls.
Fucking spot on analogy
Its attached to the name because:
No creatives at Bungie can come up with an original idea apparently
Bungie believes the name alone will carry it (it wont)
Like they did so the past few times which still led to this happening again?
If i do crime and get caught or admit it, I still have to face the law about it. Does bungie?
Don’t use AI it’s theft from the creators.
The " creators "
“Plagiarism exists, therefore a plagiarism machine can’t be wrong!”
lol gtfoh
Congrats, your take is even dumber than bungie
Decent bait. Three bites, not bad.
The solution, for anyone else wondering, is derived by simplification. “If theft is bad, why is the alternative, theft again, also bad?” It’s a nonsense statement made by a moron.
This is fourth time a confirmed plagiarism occurred at Bungie in recent years. There is also an ongoing lawsuit over accusation of Red War story theft. This isn’t some lone rogue employee issue. It’s a company culture issue originating from the top. I think Sony needs to step in and clean house to address the systemic problem.
Sony exec: I have a fever and the only antidote is more micro transactions
They just keep doing it. I haven’t played any of their post-halo games and it seems like it’s going to stay that way. Feels like controversy after controversy. Removing content from Destiny 2. Stealing art. Stealing art. Stealing art. Stealing art…
I really wanted to like Destiny 2, but then they started releasing expansion packs faster than I could feasibly buy or play them. Then I learned that most of those expansions had no content anymore anyway because they think removing content is a good idea, so I just gave up.
Sadly it seems like they really would have been better off as a Halo-Making Machine like Microsoft wanted them to be.
They need to go bankrupt, honestly.
Behaviour like this should end your company.
I would be sad for the good artist and developers at bungie to loose their jobs. Hopefully they are more careful and the artist ends up happy with the result of their talks.
First offense, sure.
But they’ll just keep being scum so it needs to come back to them.
Yeah, i do hope it hurts their reputation and game sales. I think we 99% agree. Hopefully this results in better games without ethical lapses in the future.
Imagine all the plagiarism that hasn’t been found.