ampersandrew@lemmy.world
on 12 Oct 16:42
nextcollapse
This isn’t a contradiction to that.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 12 Oct 17:27
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I don’t think there’s much of a history of consoles being removed from shelves before a successor is announced.
EightBitBlood@lemmy.world
on 12 Oct 17:38
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Actually. It happened with Sega after the Dreamcast. Almost beat for beat:
Sega: We’re so going to make a cooler next Gen console.
Sega: Yeah our games are leaving stores, but just you wait until we announce what’s NEXT!
SEGA: J/K no more new consoles, Sega just makes games now.
Microsoft is likely going to turn Xbox into a brand the same way Sega was forced to.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 12 Oct 18:44
collapse
I mean, yeah. Sega completely got out of the hardware market. They never removed their hardware from shelves before announcing a replacement hardware solution, they simply let it run out and pivoted as a business to software, retaining the brand.
Imagine the potential liability a company would have by announcing they are exiting the market when they are beholden to shareholders. Announcing they are shutting down something would immediately cause a drop in share price. I would cause sales to plummet- possibly triggering lawsuits from retailers.
They’d never announce they were shutting down. There’s too much value there in the brand, even if it’s not what it used to be.
EightBitBlood@lemmy.world
on 12 Oct 20:46
collapse
Very true. They are still acting identically as if they were shutting down console production. The only difference between Dreamcast and Xbox is that Xbox is willing to lie to keep their shareholders oblivious.
Sega at least put their units on sale with honesty, yet Microsoft is acting like their Xboxes selling for 279 at Sam’s club is just a temporary thing.
It's just that people order online mostly these days. Sony are also doing this with their PlayStation.
Honestly though, consoles are dying breed.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 12 Oct 19:45
collapse
Console exclusives are dying because there’s more money to be made by selling on all platforms than isolating to just one. It’s not like first party peripherals are superior to 3rd party ones anymore.
It’s just a matter of time until Nintendo breaks and starts releasing on PC. Money is their #1, and their consoles don’t traditionally make money, the software licenses sold do. Just a matter of time until their ownership demands it in the pursuit of more profits.
I think Nintendo will survive the longest, the Switch is a handheld with gimmicky features which appeals to kids and families. They have strong IPs, people will buy literally anything that says Pokemon on it. They are very anti-consumer, but that doesn't matter to most unfortunately.
Xbox and PlayStation are essentially just heavily restricted PCs, so they don't really hold the same value as a Switch might.
It's handheld, which is already a major difference to the other consoles, along with the little Wii style control options.
They aren't selling it because of processing power, or necessarily the gimmick aspect, but on portability and "affordability". That makes it a more compelling product than gimped PCs that cost twice as much.
But the Steam Deck has started to carve into that market, with many other lower quality 'PC' handhelds appearing too.
Right, that Steam Deck and myriad of PC handhelds I think is why I don’t consider the Switch quite so uniquely gimmicky… It’s a recognition that normal controller games can be played in a ‘tablet’ with better controls more than a particularly unique, possibly patent protected thing like the wiimotes, or the Wii-U tablet+main display, or the DS dual screens…
In short, if they made their low-spec games ported to PC it’s quite likely to be a nice additional revenue stream without having to compromise the game to be workable on PC. If the Wii-Motes were still a big thing, then Nintendo would have a hard time trying to make PC ports without screwing up their console.
I re-read the article multiple times, and I maybe I missed it, but I don’t see the part where Microsoft is the one removing the consoles from store shelves.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 12 Oct 20:24
collapse
You won’t see it in any official announcement as they want to make sure their retailer partners have the opportunity to liquidate this holiday season before announcements next year. There are also a multitude of other reasons. You do not simply announce you are closing down a console while the businesses you still rely on to distribute products beyond just xbox consoles are holding onto stock.
Even this leak is that they hadn’t decided if they’ll still bother, not they already decided and lied about it. At the time, they sure did mean to make another console (that’s actually just a PC). It doesn’t make them liars if the market tells them in the interim that’s it not worth it.
EightBitBlood@lemmy.world
on 12 Oct 17:35
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It’s a contradiction to them having a successful next console. This is Sega + Dreamcast vibes all over again.
But this seems like these retailers are choosing not to stock the products, rather than Microsoft choosing not to sell to them. It might not bode well for Xbox doing well, but this doesn’t make them liars. (There are plenty of other great examples for that.)
lazynooblet@lazysoci.al
on 12 Oct 18:03
nextcollapse
Is that the same with Sony? As they are doing the same thing
yermaw@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Oct 16:10
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The article points out that it could be good news for Sony and Nintendo. Then like the next paragraph “Sony doing it too lol”
Lucky_777@lemmy.world
on 12 Oct 16:31
nextcollapse
If Sony is doing it too, it’s the retail market that’s not showing results. Thinking most people order consoles online or from electronic stores.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 12 Oct 17:40
collapse
You point the finger at retail and on some level it makes sense to want to funnel users towards your digital distribution platform to completely cut out the middle men and take the entire cut for yourself. So maybe it’s a lot of this…
..but i’m looking at that 50% subscription increase as a sign of what they want. Rent forever, own nothing.
Hardware has costs and overhead associated. They need support people and to have depot services. The cost to sell a console today is getting to be on par with a gaming laptop or desktop (not high end, but something that can play games.) The margin after retailer share has to be lower than ever, and sales tax tariffs are coming hard and fast.
You can develop your games with studios all over the world though and sell them through your US publisher for no import sales tax… especially if it’s on your subscription platform that is effectively impossible to tariff. They have the infrastructure readily available and totally paid for by business customers. Bandwidth costs next to nothing. Digital distribution has next to no overhead costs, unlike selling consumer hardware.
Ultimately Microsoft has a vested interest in Windows gaming, since it helps keep their market share and recurring subscription revenue. Few are linux gamers like I, and games are still being made that have 0 possibility of linux support, bf6 being the newest.
There’s a momumental challenge of escaping the microsoft ecosystem, and they’re pushing hard into the always online track everything you do on your computer and phone home to the mothership and sell your data to whoever is willing to buy it. Subscriptions will likely remove ads from future versions of windows.. and the holy grail of total control DRM is not far behind between forcing tpm/secureboot that ONLY works on windows 11.
…but i’m looking at that 50% subscription increase as a sign of what they want. Rent forever, own nothing.
What they wanted was a volume of subscribers to rival Netflix, and even buying out several of the world’s largest publishers for day and date releases in their subscription service didn’t move the needle. They still sell you their video games, and they’ve acknowledged through a very short lived $80 price tag on The Outer Worlds 2 they can’t get away with that price. Increasing their subscription service by 50% shows that they’ve given up on getting more people to rent forever. You know who hasn’t? Nintendo. They’re selling you a $100 peripheral that only works with games that you can rent from them and not own. There’s a wide swath of their back catalog that they will not sell to you and only rent.
Nintendo suck, they always have. I have always heard the xbox v ps battle coming down to hardware and exclusives but truly Nintendo live and die by Mario et al.
I have a switch, a covid gift and I could not stand their store shovelware or predatory subscriptions so I only ever bought second hand and have now taken to high seas. They suck.
Playstation and Cbox are close behind too.
jordanlund@lemmy.world
on 12 Oct 17:33
nextcollapse
This is in line with what I’m seeing locally. Weird they aren’t doing a fire sale like Sam’s Club:
I thought about getting a Sam’s Club membership to look for a Series X as another cheap UHD Blu-ray player. They’ve got to be gone by now at my local one
Had to go into one of their stores and look for something last week, stopped by the games while I was there. The Xbox section is already looking small and barren compared the others.
mesamunefire@piefed.social
on 12 Oct 20:28
nextcollapse
They are going through their stock as the tarrifs keep hitting. Chips are gettingbsuoer expensive in the us.
DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 13 Oct 15:10
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Did this story end up being untrue?
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world
on 13 Oct 15:26
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I saw a post saying it’s untrue but their only evidence seemed to be that their Target had not removed anything g last time they checked. Meanwhile I have seen a half dozen posts from employees and customers showing the Xbox stuff being removed. A month from now I’m sure it’ll be clearer on what’s happened.
kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 13 Oct 19:45
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I can only speak from personal experience, but my local Target has heavily downsized it’s Xbox section. Nintendo and Sony get their own aisles while Microsoft is basically an end cap.
Katana314@lemmy.world
on 13 Oct 15:20
nextcollapse
Here’s a question. For ages back, the console market had three contenders. Who do you think would compete in the trifecta between Nintendo and Sony?
Normally, PC markets stay aside from that conversation, but it might be Valve and the Steam Deck. I’m just not sure if Valve is the type to be interested in running big promotions at Wal-Mart by Mountain Dew displays.
mohaas@news.sathani.com
on 13 Oct 17:40
nextcollapse
Perfect opportunity for the 3DO to make its comeback.
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 13 Oct 18:06
nextcollapse
That is a tricky question to answer, because the PlayStation and the Switch serve fundamentally different use cases, and there’s only a small amount of crossover between the two game libraries. If you want to play Nintendo games, you’ll get a Switch. If you don’t care about Nintendo games, you’ll get a PlayStation. They’re only superficially competing, and many console gamers will end up owning both.
There was still back and forth between PlayStation and Xbox. For the PS3, Sony went bonkers on architecture, and as a result Xbox won a lot of players. With the Xbox One, they made stupid plays on TV access and always-online, and Sony succeeded against their foot-shooting. Then, with the Series S|X, Xbox still lost but won back some consumers by introducing service-based game rental, which Sony followed suit on later.
The two have bettered each other by serving as competition to capitalize on the other’s anti-consumer actions, and by at least competing on pricing and ideas. Imagine if people called out the Xbox One’s always online, but PlayStation didn’t exist.
“lol, too bad gamers”
joel_feila@lemmy.world
on 13 Oct 18:20
nextcollapse
Rumor from many many years ago would be Samsung
krooklochurm@lemmy.ca
on 13 Oct 18:22
nextcollapse
I don’t think Valve really wants to be in the hardware market. That said, with the success of the Steam Deck and the numerous Deck-alikes like the ROG Ally or Legion Go, I have to believe they’ll try to talk manufacturers into doing a Steam Machine 2 at some point.
Current Valve is trying to do what Google used to do with the Nexus phones. They’re setting a minimum standard for other companies and showing what the experience can be like.
After the next Steam Deck version (which they’re supposedly doing in-house) I suspect they’re going to get OEMs to make each following iteration, just like what Google used to do after the first few Nexus versions
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
on 13 Oct 19:41
collapse
GamePassBox is not popular while people struggle to afford even the basic costs of living? Who could have predicted this?
threaded - newest
The only issue I see here is that Sony will be getting greedy.
Yeah, remember how microsoft said this wasn’t their last console and they aren’t getting out of it?
Yeah… they lied.
.
This isn’t a contradiction to that.
I don’t think there’s much of a history of consoles being removed from shelves before a successor is announced.
Actually. It happened with Sega after the Dreamcast. Almost beat for beat:
Sega: We’re so going to make a cooler next Gen console. Sega: Yeah our games are leaving stores, but just you wait until we announce what’s NEXT! SEGA: J/K no more new consoles, Sega just makes games now.
Microsoft is likely going to turn Xbox into a brand the same way Sega was forced to.
I mean, yeah. Sega completely got out of the hardware market. They never removed their hardware from shelves before announcing a replacement hardware solution, they simply let it run out and pivoted as a business to software, retaining the brand.
Imagine the potential liability a company would have by announcing they are exiting the market when they are beholden to shareholders. Announcing they are shutting down something would immediately cause a drop in share price. I would cause sales to plummet- possibly triggering lawsuits from retailers.
They’d never announce they were shutting down. There’s too much value there in the brand, even if it’s not what it used to be.
Very true. They are still acting identically as if they were shutting down console production. The only difference between Dreamcast and Xbox is that Xbox is willing to lie to keep their shareholders oblivious.
Sega at least put their units on sale with honesty, yet Microsoft is acting like their Xboxes selling for 279 at Sam’s club is just a temporary thing.
Almost certain that Sam’s is the one taking the hit on that sale.
It's just that people order online mostly these days. Sony are also doing this with their PlayStation.
Honestly though, consoles are dying breed.
Console exclusives are dying because there’s more money to be made by selling on all platforms than isolating to just one. It’s not like first party peripherals are superior to 3rd party ones anymore.
It’s just a matter of time until Nintendo breaks and starts releasing on PC. Money is their #1, and their consoles don’t traditionally make money, the software licenses sold do. Just a matter of time until their ownership demands it in the pursuit of more profits.
I think Nintendo will survive the longest, the Switch is a handheld with gimmicky features which appeals to kids and families. They have strong IPs, people will buy literally anything that says Pokemon on it. They are very anti-consumer, but that doesn't matter to most unfortunately.
Xbox and PlayStation are essentially just heavily restricted PCs, so they don't really hold the same value as a Switch might.
Like with the Wii, I’d be with you and the Wii motes were super gimmicky. Also if the Wii u had panned out.
But the switch is not particularly uniquely gimmicky. Pretty conventional controls, with maybe the residual gimmick of those NFC figures…
It's handheld, which is already a major difference to the other consoles, along with the little Wii style control options.
They aren't selling it because of processing power, or necessarily the gimmick aspect, but on portability and "affordability". That makes it a more compelling product than gimped PCs that cost twice as much.
But the Steam Deck has started to carve into that market, with many other lower quality 'PC' handhelds appearing too.
Right, that Steam Deck and myriad of PC handhelds I think is why I don’t consider the Switch quite so uniquely gimmicky… It’s a recognition that normal controller games can be played in a ‘tablet’ with better controls more than a particularly unique, possibly patent protected thing like the wiimotes, or the Wii-U tablet+main display, or the DS dual screens…
In short, if they made their low-spec games ported to PC it’s quite likely to be a nice additional revenue stream without having to compromise the game to be workable on PC. If the Wii-Motes were still a big thing, then Nintendo would have a hard time trying to make PC ports without screwing up their console.
I re-read the article multiple times, and I maybe I missed it, but I don’t see the part where Microsoft is the one removing the consoles from store shelves.
You won’t see it in any official announcement as they want to make sure their retailer partners have the opportunity to liquidate this holiday season before announcements next year. There are also a multitude of other reasons. You do not simply announce you are closing down a console while the businesses you still rely on to distribute products beyond just xbox consoles are holding onto stock.
This guy has had many insider information in the past, going back to 2023 when many microsoft titles started releasing on all consoles including the switch. Console wars are dead and software rent seeking and digital sales are the future: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/microsoft-revamps-xbox-game-pass-plans-and-hikes-ultimate-to-29-99-a-month-ultimate-gets-ubisoft-classics-and-more.1688694/page-29#post-270866538
Even this leak is that they hadn’t decided if they’ll still bother, not they already decided and lied about it. At the time, they sure did mean to make another console (that’s actually just a PC). It doesn’t make them liars if the market tells them in the interim that’s it not worth it.
It’s a contradiction to them having a successful next console. This is Sega + Dreamcast vibes all over again.
But this seems like these retailers are choosing not to stock the products, rather than Microsoft choosing not to sell to them. It might not bode well for Xbox doing well, but this doesn’t make them liars. (There are plenty of other great examples for that.)
Is that the same with Sony? As they are doing the same thing
.
The article points out that it could be good news for Sony and Nintendo. Then like the next paragraph “Sony doing it too lol”
If Sony is doing it too, it’s the retail market that’s not showing results. Thinking most people order consoles online or from electronic stores.
You point the finger at retail and on some level it makes sense to want to funnel users towards your digital distribution platform to completely cut out the middle men and take the entire cut for yourself. So maybe it’s a lot of this…
..but i’m looking at that 50% subscription increase as a sign of what they want. Rent forever, own nothing.
Hardware has costs and overhead associated. They need support people and to have depot services. The cost to sell a console today is getting to be on par with a gaming laptop or desktop (not high end, but something that can play games.) The margin after retailer share has to be lower than ever, and sales tax tariffs are coming hard and fast.
You can develop your games with studios all over the world though and sell them through your US publisher for no import sales tax… especially if it’s on your subscription platform that is effectively impossible to tariff. They have the infrastructure readily available and totally paid for by business customers. Bandwidth costs next to nothing. Digital distribution has next to no overhead costs, unlike selling consumer hardware.
Ultimately Microsoft has a vested interest in Windows gaming, since it helps keep their market share and recurring subscription revenue. Few are linux gamers like I, and games are still being made that have 0 possibility of linux support, bf6 being the newest.
There’s a momumental challenge of escaping the microsoft ecosystem, and they’re pushing hard into the always online track everything you do on your computer and phone home to the mothership and sell your data to whoever is willing to buy it. Subscriptions will likely remove ads from future versions of windows.. and the holy grail of total control DRM is not far behind between forcing tpm/secureboot that ONLY works on windows 11.
What they wanted was a volume of subscribers to rival Netflix, and even buying out several of the world’s largest publishers for day and date releases in their subscription service didn’t move the needle. They still sell you their video games, and they’ve acknowledged through a very short lived $80 price tag on The Outer Worlds 2 they can’t get away with that price. Increasing their subscription service by 50% shows that they’ve given up on getting more people to rent forever. You know who hasn’t? Nintendo. They’re selling you a $100 peripheral that only works with games that you can rent from them and not own. There’s a wide swath of their back catalog that they will not sell to you and only rent.
Nintendo suck, they always have. I have always heard the xbox v ps battle coming down to hardware and exclusives but truly Nintendo live and die by Mario et al.
I have a switch, a covid gift and I could not stand their store shovelware or predatory subscriptions so I only ever bought second hand and have now taken to high seas. They suck.
Playstation and Cbox are close behind too.
This is in line with what I’m seeing locally. Weird they aren’t doing a fire sale like Sam’s Club:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ac556808-8a2d-4f7a-892f-dc8d1fb091a6.jpeg">
I thought about getting a Sam’s Club membership to look for a Series X as another cheap UHD Blu-ray player. They’ve got to be gone by now at my local one
Mine still has them at $499
Instead of getting a membership, get a gift card. I don’t think a membership is required to spend a gift card.
Had to go into one of their stores and look for something last week, stopped by the games while I was there. The Xbox section is already looking small and barren compared the others.
They are going through their stock as the tarrifs keep hitting. Chips are gettingbsuoer expensive in the us.
Did this story end up being untrue?
I saw a post saying it’s untrue but their only evidence seemed to be that their Target had not removed anything g last time they checked. Meanwhile I have seen a half dozen posts from employees and customers showing the Xbox stuff being removed. A month from now I’m sure it’ll be clearer on what’s happened.
I can only speak from personal experience, but my local Target has heavily downsized it’s Xbox section. Nintendo and Sony get their own aisles while Microsoft is basically an end cap.
Here’s a question. For ages back, the console market had three contenders. Who do you think would compete in the trifecta between Nintendo and Sony?
Normally, PC markets stay aside from that conversation, but it might be Valve and the Steam Deck. I’m just not sure if Valve is the type to be interested in running big promotions at Wal-Mart by Mountain Dew displays.
Perfect opportunity for the 3DO to make its comeback.
That is a tricky question to answer, because the PlayStation and the Switch serve fundamentally different use cases, and there’s only a small amount of crossover between the two game libraries. If you want to play Nintendo games, you’ll get a Switch. If you don’t care about Nintendo games, you’ll get a PlayStation. They’re only superficially competing, and many console gamers will end up owning both.
There was still back and forth between PlayStation and Xbox. For the PS3, Sony went bonkers on architecture, and as a result Xbox won a lot of players. With the Xbox One, they made stupid plays on TV access and always-online, and Sony succeeded against their foot-shooting. Then, with the Series S|X, Xbox still lost but won back some consumers by introducing service-based game rental, which Sony followed suit on later.
The two have bettered each other by serving as competition to capitalize on the other’s anti-consumer actions, and by at least competing on pricing and ideas. Imagine if people called out the Xbox One’s always online, but PlayStation didn’t exist.
“lol, too bad gamers”
Rumor from many many years ago would be Samsung
I got my steam deck at bic camera in Tokyo.
So like. Maybe.
I don’t think Valve really wants to be in the hardware market. That said, with the success of the Steam Deck and the numerous Deck-alikes like the ROG Ally or Legion Go, I have to believe they’ll try to talk manufacturers into doing a Steam Machine 2 at some point.
Current Valve is trying to do what Google used to do with the Nexus phones. They’re setting a minimum standard for other companies and showing what the experience can be like.
After the next Steam Deck version (which they’re supposedly doing in-house) I suspect they’re going to get OEMs to make each following iteration, just like what Google used to do after the first few Nexus versions
GamePassBox is not popular while people struggle to afford even the basic costs of living? Who could have predicted this?