Bagging seems like it should be a valid strategy, let yourself go to the back of the pack to get better items, but run the risk of not being able to catch up.
It seems counter-intuitive to make a racing game’s optimal strategy to lag behind the rest of the other racers
hansl@lemmy.world
on 29 Nov 2023 17:54
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Mario Kart is a racing game like Smash Bros is a fighting game; sure it fits, but you can’t really compare it directly to the competition.
otp@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Nov 2023 17:59
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Knocking opponents off the stage is close enough to lowering their HP to 0.
Being slower than everyone else is the opposite of being faster than everyone else. It does seem like it’s cheesing the system that’s supposed to balance things out.
Even items in Smash Bros has a skill component in getting to the item first. And “rubber band” mechanics like bonus final smashes (and items in general) can be turned off.
hansl@lemmy.world
on 29 Nov 2023 18:42
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It’s also possible to turn those off (items and their distribution), making bagging a minor issue at best.
Isn’t the competitive default online in Mario Kart to have items on?
wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one
on 29 Nov 2023 20:11
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Knocking people off the stage isnt the part that makes smash uncomparable to other fighting games.
Its the fact that its technically a platforming game, and a multiplayer game, which frequently incentivizes running and hiding from opponents, and has a built in random trip mechanic to fuck you over for no reason other than coin flip handicapping you, among a myriad of other examples of how the game can make the weaker player win.
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev
on 29 Nov 2023 20:32
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I meant sub-optimally in terms of actually racing. Optimal speed would be getting the lowest time in the race. Bagging would be aiming to not get the fastest lap each time. I probably could’ve chosen a better word, my bad.
I’m not upset about anything. But isn’t this post about Nintendo removing/reducing bagging? So maybe some others are upset about that change. But it seems like a good thing to me.
wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one
on 30 Nov 2023 16:14
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Its also sub optimal speed to lag a bit so a blue shell doesnt blow you up, but since its a mario style cartoonish video game you often find that the optimal play isnt to have the smallest or biggest number at all times.
I would say any change that makes mario cart less like mario cart and more like other racing games is a change that makes a worse game. A racing game that involves more strategy than the rest is more interesting than a racing game thats just more cartoony.
I think lagging behind for OP items is less interesting than a skill-based race.
In a party environment, those OP items are great. Bullet Bills help the new player spice up the friendly environment. But if the pro is lagging behind specifically to get OP items, I think that makes it less fun and less interesting.
Zoomboingding@lemmy.world
on 29 Nov 2023 20:27
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Eh serious tournaments disable items in Smash, the same isn’t said for Mario Kart.
ThisIsNotHim@sopuli.xyz
on 30 Nov 2023 04:46
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It does, but for a real world parallel see bike sprints.
LemmyPlay@lemmings.world
on 29 Nov 2023 19:43
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How would you stop bagging? Detect if someone brakes when moving to a lower place vs getting hit with items? That’s a bold change.
Bananablob@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Nov 2023 19:56
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How they implemented it it is you can’t get a strong item if you pick-up the item box while being stopped (like as it respawns with no forward speed), by going in reverse or picking up the same one multiple times.
threaded - newest
Bagging seems like it should be a valid strategy, let yourself go to the back of the pack to get better items, but run the risk of not being able to catch up.
It seems counter-intuitive to make a racing game’s optimal strategy to lag behind the rest of the other racers
Mario Kart is a racing game like Smash Bros is a fighting game; sure it fits, but you can’t really compare it directly to the competition.
Knocking opponents off the stage is close enough to lowering their HP to 0.
Being slower than everyone else is the opposite of being faster than everyone else. It does seem like it’s cheesing the system that’s supposed to balance things out.
Even items in Smash Bros has a skill component in getting to the item first. And “rubber band” mechanics like bonus final smashes (and items in general) can be turned off.
It’s also possible to turn those off (items and their distribution), making bagging a minor issue at best.
Isn’t the competitive default online in Mario Kart to have items on?
Knocking people off the stage isnt the part that makes smash uncomparable to other fighting games.
Its the fact that its technically a platforming game, and a multiplayer game, which frequently incentivizes running and hiding from opponents, and has a built in random trip mechanic to fuck you over for no reason other than coin flip handicapping you, among a myriad of other examples of how the game can make the weaker player win.
I think tripping was only in Brawl, no?
When the Smash meta revolves around playing sub-optimally until the other player trips, let me know.
Bagging isnt sub optimal either, its just not empty brain w+m1 gameplay.
Youre upset the racing game is more dynamic? There are many other racing games with less complex and risky strategies
I meant sub-optimally in terms of actually racing. Optimal speed would be getting the lowest time in the race. Bagging would be aiming to not get the fastest lap each time. I probably could’ve chosen a better word, my bad.
I’m not upset about anything. But isn’t this post about Nintendo removing/reducing bagging? So maybe some others are upset about that change. But it seems like a good thing to me.
Its also sub optimal speed to lag a bit so a blue shell doesnt blow you up, but since its a mario style cartoonish video game you often find that the optimal play isnt to have the smallest or biggest number at all times.
I would say any change that makes mario cart less like mario cart and more like other racing games is a change that makes a worse game. A racing game that involves more strategy than the rest is more interesting than a racing game thats just more cartoony.
I think lagging behind for OP items is less interesting than a skill-based race.
In a party environment, those OP items are great. Bullet Bills help the new player spice up the friendly environment. But if the pro is lagging behind specifically to get OP items, I think that makes it less fun and less interesting.
Eh serious tournaments disable items in Smash, the same isn’t said for Mario Kart.
It does, but for a real world parallel see bike sprints.
Is it because of wind resistance? The one in front cuts through the wind for everyone else?
Yes. But it’s a duel, so they’re just trying to stay behind one person.
You’re not allowed to stop, so you try and creep forward really slowly by doing bike stands until the last lap.
I dunno exactly what sandbagging looks like in Mario Cart, but I kind of doubt it looks this silly.
Interesting!
How would you stop bagging? Detect if someone brakes when moving to a lower place vs getting hit with items? That’s a bold change.
How they implemented it it is you can’t get a strong item if you pick-up the item box while being stopped (like as it respawns with no forward speed), by going in reverse or picking up the same one multiple times.