Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world
on 18 Sep 19:41
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I clicked it, so you don’t have to:
After testing random people with various computer programs that asked them to rotate objects, they found that some people were able to complete the tasks with inverted or non inverted controls, despite the fact that they had claimed to prefer the opposite. The researchers claim that some people’s brains are just wired to perform better one way or the other despite how they originally learned.
Makes sense. Some controls work better when inverted.
I always use inverted when flying but anything ground based is non inverted.
TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org
on 18 Sep 20:59
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As someone who uses scissor lifts a lot, I wish the manufacturers standardized on one way. Some have you push the joystick forward to descend, others will raise the platform when doing the same. I've damn near smashed some things in the ceiling going the wrong way for a second.
I count myself lucky to have only used a scissor lift from one manufacturer and I still have to check the control panel every time. And even then I screw it up sometimes.
Most games have seperate controls for each transport type and of the ones I have played flying controls come as inverted.
biscuitswalrus@aussie.zone
on 18 Sep 23:10
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100%. Exactly the same.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Sep 12:48
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I always use inverted.
I first played flying simulators as a kid, and inverted makes a ton of sense. 3D shooters weren’t really a thing yet, so when they became a thing, I kept using inverted controls and it was comfortable.
I can switch, but it takes some getting used to, and my error rate is higher.
That said, when I use a mouse, I want up (forward) to go up, and down (backward) to go down, so the inverted controls are only for controllers w/ joysticks.
Not even sure what counts as inverted for flying, push the stick forwards = dive, pull it back = climb. Pretty sure that is normal for flight sims though because that is how you fly a plane. Space sims end up going with the same kind of input usually.
capuccino@lemmy.world
on 18 Sep 19:45
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Why do they mean by "inverted controls? I remember that in some SNES games you could literally invert your controls and play with ABXY as if it were your D-Pad, and your D-Pad as yours ABXY buttons.
Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 18 Sep 19:48
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Usually it refers to joystick directions being reversed (common for flight simulators) or the “Southpaw” control methods on console controllers (designed for lefty users).
Not a true sim, but Ace Combat 7 novice controls are non-inverted. I feel like Far Cry 5/6 and definitely Fortnite put the non-inverted pitch control on the planes, which were not the focus of the game. I assumed other plane-including games did the same.
FigMcLargeHuge@sh.itjust.works
on 19 Sep 01:45
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Il-2 Sturmovich for the Xbox 360 didn’t have the correct controls, I messaged the devs and they said they would work on it. Still waiting…
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Sep 12:56
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Third person games as well.
Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world
on 18 Sep 19:53
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Invert Y-axis gang unite!
Make Y-axis INVERTED Default Again
kittenspronkles@lemmy.ml
on 18 Sep 20:52
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I used to play inverted then started gaming on pc. Now when I use a controller its like neither is good for me - my brain will sometimes think inverted and other times non-inverted mid play session
I find that for me this happens especially often in 3rd person camera control. And I think it has to do with the distance between the camera and the controlled actor.
Think driving a car, and the camera moving up close to the car when you’re under something like a bridge which would otherwise clip the camera. At that point my preference for camera controll switches from ‘orbit object’ mode to ‘aim’ mode so to say.
Does that make sense?
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Sep 12:54
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Yeah, that screws me up too. For first person games, joystick forward to look down makes intuitive sense to me, because I’m controlling the axis of the head (comes from airplane sims). For third person games, now I’m controlling the camera, and it’s not so clear.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Sep 12:52
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Nope. Down to go down, up to go up. Always.
The explanation I’ve heard for your trackpad argument is that the trackpad is “grabbing” the page or whatever, but I’ve never made that connection. Trackpad gestures to me are equivalent to the scrollwheel, they’re just a different way of interfacing with it. The only thing that “grabs” the page is my finger when it’s on a touch screen.
Yeah and trackpads are basically remote touchscreens
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Sep 15:02
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They’re not though. A trackpad processes relative inputs, while a touchscreen processes absolute inputs. If I touch the corner of my trackpad, it doesn’t produce a click on the corresponding corner of the screen like a touchscreen would. Likewise a touch and slide doesn’t drag stuff, it moves the cursor relative to where it was.
It’s much more similar to a mouse. In fact, if you just imagine your finger is a mouse, you’ve just described all of the functions of a touchpad except gestures, and gestures are just replacements for the buttons (two tap for right click, two finger slide for scroll wheel, etc).
pm_me_your_puppies@infosec.pub
on 19 Sep 00:38
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Invert Y-axis gang!
There’s fewer and fewer people who use inverted controls, I’ve found. Makes sense, I’m old and it just became muscle memory for me after playing Goldeneye til my thumbs bled back in the day. It’s more of a pain in the ass now, since non-inverted seems to be the norm and I always have to hunt to change it any time I fire up a game with camera controls.
FigMcLargeHuge@sh.itjust.works
on 19 Sep 01:43
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For me it’s from flying remote control airplanes and it has a name - Mode 2.
lazynooblet@lazysoci.al
on 19 Sep 06:48
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I wish Genshin Impact supported invert :(
moobythegoldensock@infosec.pub
on 20 Sep 11:58
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Seriously, on older games pushing up to look forward was the default. It was only later that they decided to call it inverted.
I just don’t get why anyone would use non-inverted. Why would I tilt my head forward to look up?
I think the core of this dispute is the intuition of each person of what exactly they’re moving and how they’re moving it.
Like I have never once considered, until just now by reading your comment, that the stick could controlling my characters head. I’ve always intuitively thought that I’m controlling “the point in space that my character is looking at.”
Changing this makes one way make more sense than the other. Like, despite my preference for non inversion, I would fully concede that if I were to imagine the stick controlling the head directly that inversion makes plenty of sense.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Sep 12:50
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Yup. I started w/ flight sims, so the controller controlling the airplane made sense. When I transitioned to FPS games, the controller controlling the head made logical sense. I’m not the character, I’m controlling the character, so why shouldn’t the character work like a plane?
Well, put your hand on your head like you would a mouse. If you push forward what happens? You look down. There’s no “correct” way here.
Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 18 Sep 19:57
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Fascinating read.
I liked learning about the “Simon effect”, only knew about similar, non-spatial ones (colours)…
And I might give non-inverted controls a try, although being a die-hard inverter.
At least it will be some brain stimulus to keep me from cognitive aging too fast. Like changing the mouse hand from right to left and back again once in a while.
And at best I will become the unbeatable Über-Player, because in truth I am a hidden non-inverter! ;-)
threaded - newest
I clicked it, so you don’t have to:
After testing random people with various computer programs that asked them to rotate objects, they found that some people were able to complete the tasks with inverted or non inverted controls, despite the fact that they had claimed to prefer the opposite. The researchers claim that some people’s brains are just wired to perform better one way or the other despite how they originally learned.
Makes sense. Some controls work better when inverted.
I always use inverted when flying but anything ground based is non inverted.
As someone who uses scissor lifts a lot, I wish the manufacturers standardized on one way. Some have you push the joystick forward to descend, others will raise the platform when doing the same. I've damn near smashed some things in the ceiling going the wrong way for a second.
I count myself lucky to have only used a scissor lift from one manufacturer and I still have to check the control panel every time. And even then I screw it up sometimes.
that seems like an actual safety concern that should have been regulated long ago, wtf
Well that’s nice for dynamic people like you, but for dolts like me it will just mess me up trying to switch back and forth.
You people would have an aneurysm if you saw what I did with the rest of the controls to maintain consistency.
Most games have seperate controls for each transport type and of the ones I have played flying controls come as inverted.
100%. Exactly the same.
I always use inverted.
I first played flying simulators as a kid, and inverted makes a ton of sense. 3D shooters weren’t really a thing yet, so when they became a thing, I kept using inverted controls and it was comfortable.
I can switch, but it takes some getting used to, and my error rate is higher.
That said, when I use a mouse, I want up (forward) to go up, and down (backward) to go down, so the inverted controls are only for controllers w/ joysticks.
Not even sure what counts as inverted for flying, push the stick forwards = dive, pull it back = climb. Pretty sure that is normal for flight sims though because that is how you fly a plane. Space sims end up going with the same kind of input usually.
Why do they mean by "inverted controls? I remember that in some SNES games you could literally invert your controls and play with ABXY as if it were your D-Pad, and your D-Pad as yours ABXY buttons.
Usually it refers to joystick directions being reversed (common for flight simulators) or the “Southpaw” control methods on console controllers (designed for lefty users).
I’ve never seen a flight sim with reversed controls. They all work like a real plane joystick from what I’ve seen.
Yeah, that's inverted controls. Push the joystick up to go down, and down to go up.
No… push forward to go down, pull back to go up.
That’s standard joystick operation, nothing inverted about it.
For airplanes yes, for literally any other application no, that's inverted.
Not a true sim, but Ace Combat 7 novice controls are non-inverted. I feel like Far Cry 5/6 and definitely Fortnite put the non-inverted pitch control on the planes, which were not the focus of the game. I assumed other plane-including games did the same.
Il-2 Sturmovich for the Xbox 360 didn’t have the correct controls, I messaged the devs and they said they would work on it. Still waiting…
In an fps:
Inverted: push thumbstick forward to look down
Non Inverted: push thumbstick forward to look up
Third person games as well.
Invert Y-axis gang unite!
Make Y-axis INVERTED Default Again
I used to play inverted then started gaming on pc. Now when I use a controller its like neither is good for me - my brain will sometimes think inverted and other times non-inverted mid play session
I find that for me this happens especially often in 3rd person camera control. And I think it has to do with the distance between the camera and the controlled actor.
Think driving a car, and the camera moving up close to the car when you’re under something like a bridge which would otherwise clip the camera. At that point my preference for camera controll switches from ‘orbit object’ mode to ‘aim’ mode so to say.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, that screws me up too. For first person games, joystick forward to look down makes intuitive sense to me, because I’m controlling the axis of the head (comes from airplane sims). For third person games, now I’m controlling the camera, and it’s not so clear.
Ah, so make things worse — just like MAGA
Also hate “natural” scroll on PC.
With a mouse, yes. With a trackpad? No
Nope. Down to go down, up to go up. Always.
The explanation I’ve heard for your trackpad argument is that the trackpad is “grabbing” the page or whatever, but I’ve never made that connection. Trackpad gestures to me are equivalent to the scrollwheel, they’re just a different way of interfacing with it. The only thing that “grabs” the page is my finger when it’s on a touch screen.
Yeah and trackpads are basically remote touchscreens
They’re not though. A trackpad processes relative inputs, while a touchscreen processes absolute inputs. If I touch the corner of my trackpad, it doesn’t produce a click on the corresponding corner of the screen like a touchscreen would. Likewise a touch and slide doesn’t drag stuff, it moves the cursor relative to where it was.
It’s much more similar to a mouse. In fact, if you just imagine your finger is a mouse, you’ve just described all of the functions of a touchpad except gestures, and gestures are just replacements for the buttons (two tap for right click, two finger slide for scroll wheel, etc).
Invert Y-axis gang!
There’s fewer and fewer people who use inverted controls, I’ve found. Makes sense, I’m old and it just became muscle memory for me after playing Goldeneye til my thumbs bled back in the day. It’s more of a pain in the ass now, since non-inverted seems to be the norm and I always have to hunt to change it any time I fire up a game with camera controls.
For me it’s from flying remote control airplanes and it has a name - Mode 2.
I wish Genshin Impact supported invert :(
Seriously, on older games pushing up to look forward was the default. It was only later that they decided to call it inverted.
I just don’t get why anyone would use non-inverted. Why would I tilt my head forward to look up?
I think the core of this dispute is the intuition of each person of what exactly they’re moving and how they’re moving it.
Like I have never once considered, until just now by reading your comment, that the stick could controlling my characters head. I’ve always intuitively thought that I’m controlling “the point in space that my character is looking at.”
Changing this makes one way make more sense than the other. Like, despite my preference for non inversion, I would fully concede that if I were to imagine the stick controlling the head directly that inversion makes plenty of sense.
Yup. I started w/ flight sims, so the controller controlling the airplane made sense. When I transitioned to FPS games, the controller controlling the head made logical sense. I’m not the character, I’m controlling the character, so why shouldn’t the character work like a plane?
Well, put your hand on your head like you would a mouse. If you push forward what happens? You look down. There’s no “correct” way here.
Fascinating read.
I liked learning about the “Simon effect”, only knew about similar, non-spatial ones (colours)…
And I might give non-inverted controls a try, although being a die-hard inverter.
At least it will be some brain stimulus to keep me from cognitive aging too fast. Like changing the mouse hand from right to left and back again once in a while.
And at best I will become the unbeatable Über-Player, because in truth I am a hidden non-inverter! ;-)