KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml
on 16 Jan 18:46
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Needless to say I will not be buying a Switch 2 today.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 19:02
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I imagine the steam deck will be capable of emulating switch 2 titles nearly immediately, so there’s little reason to buy it. They really need to make their hardware comparable to their software (minus the notoriously awful Japan™ netcode)
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml
on 16 Jan 19:44
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Emulating Switch 2 games on the Steam Deck would be a challenge. Even though it’s on an outdated process node, I think it’s fair to say it’s in the same class of hardware as a Steam Deck (which is 3 years old at this point).
Deck 2, though…
gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Jan 00:15
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I think it’s fair to say it’s in the same class of hardware as a Steam Deck (which is 3 years old at this point).
The switch was weaker than the PS4, which was the same age difference at launch
Shit, I think you could actually compare it reasonably to a PS3 from 10 years before switch launch
Hardware aside, to my knowledge no one is really actively developing any of the Switch emulators due to the prior legal action that was taken.
Now, eventually it’s possible someone might do it for the Switch 2, but I wouldn’t expect anything quick as whomever does so will very likely incur the mighty wrath of Nintendo’s legal team.
DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 16 Jan 20:04
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Good luck getting someone to continue emulation development. The only potential chance for development is exclusively on the under web, and the dev has said that “this was supposed to be a hobby” meaning they have an out if they don’t want to continue
Theoriginalthon@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 19:14
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Idk their emulation is garbage except for the suspension and rewind. A lot of the open source emulation I have seen, especially of Nintendo products, is immaculate.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 22:06
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Not to mention the selection of games available is pretty paltry.
That’s just not true. They have their own emulators, but most of the time they are inferior to community ones. I think Virtual Console releases used some kind of optimized emulators for their hardware, but didn’t care about accuracy, etc.
Soulifix@kbin.melroy.org
on 16 Jan 18:55
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Nintendo 5 years from now: "After suing multiple fan projects and intimidating them to cease projects, Nintendo admits that they were just fan projects"
This is the company by the way that's behind on the times of technology. Like, how long did it take them to adopt broadband technology on their consoles? The Wii?
justOnePersistentKbinPlease@fedia.io
on 16 Jan 18:59
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They killed Splatoon's grassroots Esport community thanks to them making a quick buck with splatoon 3, that promised a bunch of network functionality improvements that never materialized.
So now, a game that used to have multiple small but growing international tournaments now has nothing. Hell, they used to have tournaments on the main stage at PAX East.
ggtdbz@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 16 Jan 19:58
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Never got into Splatoon but it looked like great fun and kind of perfect for low-stakes competition.
It’s a great game with a very high skill ceiling, but the MMR and team balancing was absolute garbage. It was very rare that it was a close match. You usually clapped or got clapped.
They’ve been shutting down Smash Bros tournaments as well.
SteveNashFan@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 21:08
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How they treated professional Melee and especially Project M was the moment I realized Nintendo was just another out-of-touch company. So many indie devs would kill for fans that passionate, let alone a modding scene that robust. Nintendo threw it all away.
Edit: and that ignores the graveyard of fan games Nintendo has killed. AM2R, Pokémon Uranium…
I recommend going the extra mile and no longer buying their hardware or software.
Emulation is in a great state right now, and it’s only getting better. The fewer resources scummy companies like Nintendo have from sales, the fewer resources they’ll have to go after community products.
Really hoping this isn’t a 3DS situation where they added a notch to gamecarts. Its so dumb that we can’t use game consoles like a PC and just fucking install discs if we want to without a shitty checking system.
Ok but like… given what I was hearing from those scenes that was probably for the best
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 22:14
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I never understood why they abandoned Splatoon 2. Like, I get that they have a new game, and that’s great, I guess…but why not support Splatoon 2 until Switch 2 comes out? I never bought the splatoon 3, because I JUST bought splatoon 2 like 2-3 years prior when it came out. You NEED online to play that game.
So you’re paying $59.99 for the game, and then $20 a year for online. All for a game that exists in a time bubble. Once it’s time for the next game, fuck you. Buy the new game. Your old game means nothing.
Well fuck you too Nintendo. I’ll just not buy Splatoon 3, and not pay for online anymore. How about that?
No, I’m not fooled about the price. It costs exactly $59.99 + local tax. Saying it costs $60 is overstating it’s price by $0.01.
BlackSwordD2@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 22:18
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As one of the leaders in said community for the NA scene I wouldn’t lay the blame entirely on Splat3. Things were slowing down before then and a lot of the old guard were hanging up their hats.
Networking left much to be desired, but we also started the grassroots on the Wii U after all.
justOnePersistentKbinPlease@fedia.io
on 16 Jan 22:24
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Fair, I have connections to a few that were fairly serious during 2, most of which were in tournies, one of those never bought 3, but the rest gave it a shot.
The ripoff that is S3 seems to be nails in the proverbial coffin.
Yeah the transition between games was hard. 1 to 2 was ok-ish as there was excitement on the switch. 2 to 3 was rough as the average comp player was between high school and college aged which had less disposable income to get the game right away.
Not to mention each time was a hard reset on both maps and equipment that slowly rolled out over time made getting cohesive teams extra hard…
Like, how long did it take them to adopt broadband technology on their consoles? The Wii?
As on addon or built-in? I know the GameCube had an Ethernet add-on and I think the N64 had a dialup addon (Would have been the fastest at the time for home users, nobody had home broadband on N64 release)
Yep, and some PS2s (like mine) came with the network adapter built-in!
Never going to forget the days of having a 30-foot ethernet cable running across my living room (right under the doorway) so I can play Battlefront 2, Ratchet and Clank 3, and of course, MGS3 online.
Folks pointing out GCN/Wii internet abilities are missing that the experience was awful. Like sure, the guts of broadband were there, but actually playing a game with friends online was way more trouble than it was worth.
So to your point, real online gaming was indeed way behind other consoles (IMHO).
MeekerThanBeaker@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 20:50
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I stopped playing Mario Kart online with others on the Wii. Some players had set an infinite blue shells hack on. Just wasn’t fun to play. Complained to Nintendo and they replied like there was nothing they could do or something like that.
Yup, they changed their minds. Bluetooth, Titles on mobile. It’s this mish-mash of bullheadedness for the sake of being bullheaded, then the try like a decade later.
Nintendo is competent at exactly 1 thing - designing great video games.
They are run by the equivalent of dwarven master blacksmiths… They’re one of the few gaming companies with employees on staff with more than 40 years experience of game dev (and whom have ONLY ever worked at Nintendo their entire careers) in charge of things.
That’s great if you like Zelda and Mario games… but because they’re run by a bunch of old-school grandpas… they’re not good at much else.
Terrible store, multiplayer, ancillary modern network-driven services like voice chat and partying up, little to no 3rd-party support (whether it’s games, media apps, or even tech integrations with formats like Dolby ATMOS), and - as a benefit - really terrible device security so it’s usually pretty easy for folks to reverse engineer, run custom boot-loaders / jailbreak / scrape their store servers / etc. - stuff that companies like Sony and Microsoft either never had issues with - or have taken seriously long enough that they have locked down.
The only reason they’re still in business is that they still do the one thing that matters most the best - design really great game-play mechanics for IP that is beloved by multiple generations of gamers who will overlook everything else.
driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br
on 16 Jan 21:00
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I don’t think people remember, but there was a time when no twitch streamer or youtuber would play Nintendo games because they fucking take down their streams for copyright infringement.
What a brilliant racket. Have people do all the work of getting a channel going, then claim the money for yourself.
_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Jan 13:20
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That’s not entirely true, you could keep the videos up if all the ad revenue went to Nintendo. In other words, if you paid them so you could promote their game.
I’m personally surprised by Nintendo continuing to include user accessible SD cards in their consoles from the DS through the Switch. It becomes incredibly convenient for piracy and I would have thought they were doing it on purpose to at least sell the hardware if it wasn’t for all the evidence you the contrary.
The ps5 port only requires one screw to access.
I know the hard drive on the PS4 was only one screw to access as well.
I’m uncertain of the Xbox, they had a proprietary hard drive for the 360 so I didn’t go down that path.
While that is slightly more complicated than inserting a SD card, it is not technical.
It’s not about what is common but instead that micro sd cards aren’t typically designed for so many reads and writes.
Critical_Thinker@lemm.ee
on 17 Jan 03:06
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M.2 seems easier for normies to mess up and SD cards have traditionally been significantly cheaper… plus a microSD card is smaller than M.2 by an order of magnitude.
Like, how long did it take them to adopt broadband technology on their consoles? The Wii?
While I agree they’re behind the times on their consoles re online, I think it’s more a software issue. I don’t think criticising the hardware functionality is quite fair.
The predecessor to the Wii was the Gamecube which came out in 2001, where few people had broadband internet
The other consoles in that generation were the ps2, xbox, and briefly dreamcast. Of those, only the xbox came with built in networking, until the playstation slim release in 2004. The dreamcast, ps2 and Gamecube all offered additional adapters to provide ethernet (and the dreamcast and Gamecube had dial up modems available too). So the Gamecube was in line with most of the competition.
The Wii had out of the box WiFi (and an adapter for ethernet available) which put it in a similar space to its competitors. Only the ps3 had both WiFi and ethernet out of the box at launch. The 360 only had ethernet until a refresh that added WIFI. And the Wii was also coming in at a significantly lower price point.
So when they shut down Ryujinx and Yuzu, was it basically “Stop running this emulator or we will ruin your lives with legal bills”?
iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 19:31
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Iirc, and take this with a grain of salt, ryujinx actually got paid by Nintendo to stop development.
stevedice@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jan 16:25
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That’s a rumor. All we know is that they talked with the dev behind closed doors and he deleted everything related to Ryujinx afterwards. Sure, they could have paid him but it’s just as likely that they just threatened him. Let’s not forget how Nintendo made its money.
KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 18:59
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The top IP lawyer at Nintendo agreed that emulators are technically legal at a panel for intellectual property rights.
They run afoul of the law when they bypass encryption, recreate copyrighted programs, or point users to pirated material.
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 19:35
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Yes, this wasn’t an admission because it’s a well-known fact that is not inconsistent with Nintendo’s earlier actions. The headline is deceptive and people don’t read the article. The article itself contains no new information and it is only worth reading for someone who has been deceived by the headline and needs to be set straight by the same people who wrote the deceptive headline. It’s click bait that shouldn’t exist.
Nintendo used to have a page on emulation on their website incorrectly claiming that it was always illegal and all emulators had solely been created to enable piracy. This new claim is not compatible with their previous action of having that page.
I’m sure we’ll have much better content too, once lots of companies stop investing in games, movies, and shows if that happens 🙄
audaxdreik@pawb.social
on 16 Jan 19:06
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With the Switch 2 announcement, it’s kind of clear that they aren’t even trying to be a tech company anymore. While not every last one of their consoles released was a true innovation, it did feel like something that was built into part of their brand. Now we just have the Switch 2 which is mostly what you’d expect with some decent QoL upgrades.
Nintendo is pursuing the walled garden approach. You’re barely even buying a console anymore, a lot of this hardware has more or less converged. What you’re buying is access to the cultivated ecosystem. Like everything else these days, they entice you in with the big, recognizable brands and hope there’s enough else to keep you there. Emulators straight pierce that veil and it’s why they went so hard on them.
I’m not criticizing (too heavily) the people that choose to hold on to the franchises they love, but once you step outside and choose alternatives, there’s very little to bring you back. Pokemon lost me a few gens ago, honestly not the biggest Zelda fan, and Mario alone won’t do it for me. Metroid and Starfox are scattershot … Personally I’ll stick with the Steam Deck and wait for Switch 2 emulation to roll around. And if it doesn’t, there are just so many other games to play these days.
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 19:26
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. You’re barely even buying a console anymore, a lot of this hardware has more or less converged. What you’re buying is access to the cultivated ecosystem.
Bingo. In an age where most people’s phones have better hardware than the Switch, it’s all about access to the walled garden instead of hardware.
Not that I disagree with your point about walled gardens, but “better” hardware for a handheld gaming machine needs to have a decent balance between performance and battery life. Longest plane or train journey that I’m likely to take is about five hours, and I’d need to rate any gaming hardware on the ability to run for that length of time. On that basis, the Switch is pretty much optimal. My phone has a higher resolution and can probably push more frames, but it would run hot for about forty-five minutes maximum. Plus, I’d then not be able to make calls or listen to tunes at my destination.
Steam deck would probably be a better choice, though. Fuck Nintendo.
turkalino@lemmy.yachts
on 16 Jan 19:28
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What walled garden are you talking about? Exclusive games? Literally every console ever made has those.
Nintendo bad for making QoL console releases? Again, Nintendo is not the only company to do that. PS4/PS5 Pro, the recent Xboxes, etc
With emulators, they’re only trying to protect their current hardware. They’ve put basically zero effort into shutting down emulators for consoles they don’t sell anymore. Yeah, I’m with everyone else in wishing they didn’t shut down the switch emulators but it’s somewhat understandable that they’re trying to protect their revenue from hardware sales
Nintendo bad for making QoL console releases? Again, Nintendo is not the only company to do that. PS4/PS5 Pro, the recent Xboxes, etc
Nintendo has a history of doing something different each hardware generation: Snes had the 4 button + shoulder buttons controller. N64 controller was designed for someone with 3 hands, DS had 2 screens, 3DS had 3d without glasses, Wii had motion controls, Wii U the tablet controller, Switch is a console and portable… Every system had something that made it unique. What’s unique about the Switch 2?
Nintendo is not able to compete with other consoles on power, it’s the unique hardware that gives a reason to own it over something else.
They’ve put basically zero effort into shutting down emulators for consoles they don’t sell anymore.
Technically correct. They may not be shutting down emulators, but if they hear a whisper of a ROM for Mappy Land on the NES they have their lawyers on speed dial.
( Me typing that sentence means someone from Nintendo is now watching this thread to see if anyone links to a ROM.)
I don’t think Nintendo ever tried to be a tech company. They have always been a game company first and foremost. If they were ever a kind of tech company, the closest analogy would be Apple, another company that focused on consumer electronics.
I wouldn’t say ALWAYS, seeing as how they also tried their hand at taxis and love hotels for a while there.
sumguyonline@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 19:40
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I was a life long Nintendo fan boy. I have every system excluding the virtual boy cuz of the headaches, and the Wii u because I was under employed when it released. I stopped buying Nintendo after Gary Bowser, their software is janky, and bad for 2000’s level of web portal. I had already complained to Nintendo as a long term investor, and instead of innovating their software and hardware, they litigate away anything that might be considered competition and sue into poverty anyone that alters the devices.
I never altered my switch, but I stand on the side of the hackers because Nintendo desperately needed to create a quality software core for their switch family. They want their software to be an extremely basic game launcher, and in modern software terms, that’s just incompetent.
I stopped buying Nintendo because Nintendo stopped innovating their software, started litigating their profits, and relied solely on old worn out IP instead of creating something new and fresh.
You know how many new games are gonna launch on switch 2? Less than 5. Know what one of the first 10 games is gonna be? Mario. Want another? Probably a racing game that’s another rehash but has something blandly new and shiny, like space ship racing with gerbils(instead of diddy Kong racing, or jet ski racing etc).
Nintendo has no new IP ideas, and while I was mostly OK suffering through the tired old crap to get to whatever gameplay innovation they made, they seem to have abandoned the gameplay innovation entirely, and are just suing people to force them to play their games the way they want, even if they already received money for the game and system. Whatever they might have in store for the switch 2, so long as Gary Bowser is living in debt to Nintendo, I will never purchase another Nintendo product new, ever again, and I will only purchase used if they have an absolute banger of a game, but I’m only buying that used as well. No profit to Nintendo. I can buy off eBay.
Nintendo lost my business long ago nothing they make or say will get me to buy another Nintendo product
Matriks404@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 22:51
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There’s nothing new in this article. And I don’t think Nintendo ever said that emulation is illegal, just emulating their games is, which technically is true to some part at least in the United States, where sometimes you need to circumvent some security measures to get games emulated which is a forbidden (this is mentioned in the article).
Yea, if I recall correctly, the Yuzu team was sharing roms of latest Nintendo releases internally and Nintendo was able to prove it. At least Jeff Gerstman podcast suggested something to that accord when reporting on it.
psycho_driver@lemmy.world
on 17 Jan 05:00
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Yeah and the Yuzu people had made something like 4 million bucks on the project too. When you start making serious cash off of tools for piracy (and when we’re talking about a current-gen console that’s essentially what it is, not a tool for preservation like older emulators) then you should expect some heat to come your way.
Nintendo has always been a bit on the bastardly side of things when it comes to fan projects but I can’t say that I blame them for going after Yuzu when they felt like they had a winnable case.
In 2011, in a second autobiography called Starting Over, La Toya Jackson retracted her allegations against both her brother Michael and her father Joe, saying that she was forced to make them by her husband at the time, whom she accused of being abusive.
“My family and Michael knew that wasn’t really me talking,” the Daily Beast quotes her as saying in an interview. “I never believed for a minute my brother was guilty of anything like that.”>
The Daily Beast reports in 2013 that after very publicly and repeatedly defending Jackson, Robson now says that Jackson sexually molested him for seven years.
Two years later, in May 2015, a judge in Los Angeles County Superior Court, Mitchell L. Beckloff, dismisses Robson’s suit against the estate, saying that he waited too long to file his claim. In December 2017, the same judge dismisses the rest of Robson’s suit, filed against Jackson’s two companies, MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures, because the two corporations could not be found liable for Jackson’s alleged behavior. Notably, neither of these judgments address the credibility of Robson’s accusations.
James Safechuck files a similar suit against MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures in 2014, alleging that Jackson abused him on “hundreds” of occasions between 1988 and 1992. Beckloff, who is also the presiding judge in this suit, rejects Safechuck’s suit in June 2017 on the same grounds he gave Robson.>
His sister walked back her accusations citing her husband being abusive to try and get money from Michael’s downfall. The two accusers, AFTER HE DIED, were literally told they had no case. One of them had originally defended MJ.
So the lawyer says that Nintendo, despite knowing that the emulators themselves are legal, has unlawfully caused take downs and reputational damage. Sounds kind of illegal
Not really. It sounds like they haven’t gone after them for emulation, but instead for emulation-adjacent things: copying ROMs, circumventing digital locks, etc.
They explicitly mention (one of?) the developers of Yuzu sharing ROMs in the article.
In other words, the emulator itself isn’t illegal, but in order to use the emulator the way most people want, you have to do illegal things, and that’s what they go after you for.
Logical conclusion takedown of the ROM’s and not the emulator. ROM’s can be obtained without problems, I don’t regularly read that sites are taken down or people are taken up. That’s just a convenient excuse. Nintendo just knows that their only argument is exclusive titles. Who would still want a Wii if you could use it better on the steam deck with yuzu?
I also remember that I often read that you have to organize such and such files yourself. Where then reference was made to original hardware/data carriers and not to Rom pages etc.
I had problems with Zelda in particular.
Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
on 17 Jan 19:59
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Right, emulators aren’t illegal but a bunch of adjacent things can be - for example system BIOS/FW/encryption keys/ROMs if you don’t dump them yourself from your own personal hardware.
What got Yuzu in the crosshairs was announcing support for Tears of the Kingdom before it released, meaning they were testing their emulator on an unreleased game and the odds that every dev and tester had legitimately gotten a copy of the game before official release is so low that they weren’t about to fight it and go through discovery (which might have identified significant additional piracy on their part). It was easier to fold and settle, and probably saved them from an immense amount of fines for piracy used for testing.
I don’t want to contradict that at all. I’m not up to date and only read articles on “IT” sites, but these mostly refer to the fight against F/OSS which is then directed against the emulators. They hardly ever mention action against ROM sites.
CaptnNMorgan@lemmy.world
on 17 Jan 15:47
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Not sure why this is getting down votes. Price is the key factor most parents look at, and most people who aren’t into technology probably don’t know what the steam deck is or know what “gaming on Linux” means. That is what is stopping a good friend of mine. Price is a huge factor, but the intimidation from lack of knowledge is just as big
If it wasn’t for the fact that a lot of people here have a good sized Steam library, I doubt they’d have a Steam Deck either.
It’s more a “bonus way to play about half your PC games on the toilet” than it is a primary gaming platform.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jan 16:48
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Nah, you’re not giving the steam deck nearly enough credit. It fills a very similar niche to the switch - a viable mobile gaming option that can also be readily used for couch gaming. You don’t need a large steam library to get use out of that, just like how the average switch owner probably only has a few switch games.
That is not true. Steam games are normally much cheaper, you can also get tons of free games over Steam or Epic. Biggest issue with Steam Deck is the size. It is adult sized even my wife is not comfortable with it and it is too big for children. You would need to use it in combination with a controller.
stevedice@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jan 16:06
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Not sure why this is getting down votes
Because Lemmings are completely disconnected from the real world.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jan 16:51
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No, it’s just straight up misinformation, or at least a disingenuous oversimplification.
The base model steam deck is $400 (and you can get steam-certified refurbished ones for even cheaper), and we don’t know the price of the Switch 2 yet. If it comes with even some of the hardware upgrades that have been leaked, I very much doubt it’ll retail for as low as $350.
stevedice@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jan 17:54
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The base SteamDeck doesn’t have an OLED screen and is still more expensive than the Switch OLED. As for the price of the Switch 2, it’s a well-known and documented practice that console manufacturers sell them at a loss and make back the profits in games. If anything, you’re the one spewing misinformation.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jan 20:32
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The base steam deck blows the OLED switch out of the water specs-wise on everything other than the screen. Nothing I’ve said is untrue, the relevant top comment is pure speculation at best.
stevedice@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jan 22:22
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blablabla specs-wise
See? This is what I mean by disconnected from the real world. Next you’re gonna tell me how open source allows you to unlock the full potential of the Steamdeck’s hardware.
Nothing I’ve said is untrue, the relevant top comment is pure speculation at best.
Brother, you literally said the Switch 2 is not gonna be around 350 USD. You have exactly as much evidence of that as the relevant top comment has that it will be. The difference is that only your comment was serious.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Jan 03:36
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Dawg you gotta be a troll if you think I’m “disconnected from the real world” just because I know that better specs is why the steam deck can handle modern games and the switch can’t. Also I said that we don’t know what the switch 2 will cost, and that I’d be surprised if it was that low. Don’t put words in my mouth.
stevedice@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Jan 04:06
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Nope, you’re disconnected from the real world because you don’t understand the average user doesn’t care about specs they can’t see. You walking back your words now doesn’t mean you didn’t say them. Nobody is putting anything in your mouth.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Jan 14:02
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I agree. Stupid lemmings not understanding that 400 usd switch 2, plus 70 dollar switch games that nintendo says you are allowed to play, plus paying for internet again is way cheaper than 400 usd steam deck that will get you around 20 or so games for the price of a single nintendo game off humble bundle.
Wait, that can’t be right…
stevedice@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Jan 18:11
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Every comment you guys make just cements how disconnected from reality you really are. There’s also cheap games for the Switch.
Elevator7009sAlt@ani.social
on 18 Jan 18:56
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I feel on every single social media platform I have ever been on I will see the comment
[This social media platform’s users] are completely disconnected from the real world.
I never know how seriously to take this. I always want to automatically dismiss it because it seems like a “everyone here is delusional” type of comment and if I have had a majority of pleasant, reasonable-seeming interactions there I will really not like the idea that these seemingly nice people who had a civil, reasonable discussion with me are actually delusional, and by extension I probably am delusional too. And since I have seen it everywhere it basically seems to say nowhere online has (a decent amount of) people in touch with reality. But setting that aside for a moment…
Obviously every platform will attract different types of people, probably not a fully representative sample of the population, a skew towards this or that type of person… but how far skewed from the “normal” experience is each platform on average? What is normal? If one platform has a wild skew towards one type of person, but that type of person makes up most of what I’ll see in real life due to my environment (like who my friends and family are, what my workplace is like), does its distance from normal matter if it’s no different from my real life normal? How much? Given that a lot of people spend a lot of time online, in which they often express opinions they truly hold that they would not vocalize in real life, would you say people who eschew social media have their own disconnect from reality in some way? What social media platform is closest to the average real life normal, which is the least “disconnected from the real world”?
stevedice@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Jan 20:09
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Let’s preface by making clear that when I say Lemmings are disconnected from reality, I don’t mean they’re delusional. I mean they’re so immersed in their unix-like free-as-in-freedom open-source technobubble that they’ve forgotten what regular people want.
As for the rest of your comment, yes, every social media will attract its own niche of people but not every platform is equally as disconnected from the real world. For example, nobody in Fragrantica (perfume social media) would recommend a regular person to buy a perfume that smells like cocaine and magazines, even though its one of the most popular fragrances among people who like perfumes. Meanwhile, on Lemmy, people love to pretend the SteamDeck is an actual alternative to the Switch.
Elevator7009sAlt@ani.social
on 18 Jan 23:59
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Thanks for clarifying. I do my best to compensate for any of my differences from what the average person wants, but it’s a bit hard if you and your environment also skews in that direction.
At least with tech I feel I’ve got a somewhat decent handle on “normal,” at least for my age group, which is not “grandparent struggling to turn on the computer”. I probably skew a little more crazy compared to average, I did switch my computer’s OS to Linux, but way less than people on this instance. Although I have no comment on the Switch/Steam Deck thing, I have zero desire to participate in console gaming and none of my friends are passionate enough about consoles to leak any information over to me. I’ve seen Switches around and have no idea what a Deck looks like, which might be telling, but it is also possible some of my friends have Decks and I just dismissed it as “some object”.
ohitsbreadley@discuss.tchncs.de
on 17 Jan 16:15
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Because it’s a false narrative, entry level steamdeck can be had for $399.
TheLowestStone@lemmy.world
on 17 Jan 20:55
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You can one for under $300 if you buy refurbished.
Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip
on 17 Jan 22:53
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Not an argument, you can also buy refurbished switch for 150 - 200
TheLowestStone@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 02:08
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Sure. Can you play Baldur’s Gate 3 on it?
Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip
on 18 Jan 02:14
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No but what’s the dumbass comparison lmao
TheLowestStone@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 03:02
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How so? Is the price the only thing you think about when making a purchase?
Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip
on 19 Jan 00:06
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If we compare the prices of two devices, we compare the prices of two devices, not the original factory price and a refurbished price.
Plenty of people do or use a lot of things that more people don’t. My point was that not everyone knows what a SteamDeck is. You rebutted by saying people on steam know what it is. Do you not see how terrible of an argument that is? You were basically conceding, but you worded it like you weren’t trying to make my point, even though you did.
Yes, people on steam know about the SteamDeck, the majority of the US and world population, do NOT know what steam is. Therefore, by your own logic, most people don’t know about the SteamDeck.
It’s getting down voted because it’s not $600 it’s $400. Which is exactly how much the switch costed at launch. Well not exactly. The switch cost money to play online. So it’s actually cheaper
Additionally you can get the games much cheaper. Steam games are normally much cheaper than the Nintendo closed store. You also have Hero launcher which allows you Epic And Gog games. Epic gifts every week a new game. That alone is more than most switch players will own.
ohitsbreadley@discuss.tchncs.de
on 17 Jan 16:15
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MrShankles@reddthat.com
on 18 Jan 02:44
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Don’t you gotta buy Switch accessories too? Like kinda the same things, if you need them… a dock, extra controllers, memory card, etc? But the deck, you can use existing controllers (from other consoles, or a mouse and keyboard you might have lying around) and buy a 3rd party dock that works just as well.
I have a switch and I loved it for some games, but now that I have a steamdeck, it’s the most I’ve played games in years. Comparing accessories is moot imo, and can be cheaper on a deck… and the deck is just way more versatile overall. The Switch’s benefit is proprietary Nintendo games and that doesn’t tip the scales enough for me to buy a 2nd gen version. I’ll choose the versatility of the deck any day, it got me playing more games again
SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de
on 18 Jan 02:59
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I have 0 steamdeck accessories. Works perfectly fine
I have 0 accessories. You get everything you need: case and charger.
Most accessories are completely pointless rice, unless for some reason you want to use your deck as a pc. In which case it is still cheaper than switch and a pc.
Since I bring mine to libraries and gatherings, I use it like a Switch to plug into big TVs and four controllers. Thankfully it’s all still cheaper than the good stuff for a Switch 👍
SD is way cheaper in the long run.
You already have a sizeable library and if you don’t 620 on steam deck and humble bundle is going to get you way more games than 620 spent on switch and overpriced nintendo copy paste games. Didn’t you have to pay for the internet again on switch?
To be fair, (I hate Nintendo because of their crusade on open source software), but to be fair,
ps2 had issues on some Ps1 games, the list is short though, and the last few revisions of ps2 even software emulated Ps1 (don’t know the compatibility difference with hardware backwards compatibility)
Ps3 had issues with even more ps2 games, and only the first few revisions had hardware backwards compatibility, the ps2 emulation on ps3 without hardware compatibility is a mess
PS5 has issues with some ps4 games, including but not limited to psvr games, and I think I saw an official in incompatibility list by sony
Wii backwards compatibility i dont know about any issues except with games that use hardware accessories, maybe someone knows more? Later revisions dropped backward compatibility, but the hardware is still present, and homebrew will help you.
As for switch 2 to switch 1 backwards compatibility speculation, here is a educated guess. The asterisk is referring to lobo games and some other games with accessories. Why this speculative conclusion? Because of the way the hardware inside it works.
The arm cpu can be optionally designed to be completely backwards compatible. But is it? (more on that soon). The gpu part of the SOC, is most certainly not 100% binary compatible, because of what we already know about the architecture changes between these gpu generations. This isn’t limited to arm and nvidia gpus, ps5 also has these issues with x86 jaguar to ryzen, and Radeon generations.
So what about your experience with pc gpus, and cpus, and ps5 to ps4 compatibility etc? Well, emulation, the instructions, that are not compatible are emulated in software, this is common place, and in practice it works quite well. The main issue comes down to timing. Some things take different amount of time to do, like an instruction can take fewer cycles. Or if it’s emulated it can take more cycles. Emulation does work well, even if it often can have timing issues. Some times instructions from a future generation can possibly be emulated on your pc cpu. I can remember my friends computer using an installed windows driver, to emulate a future version of the SSE instruction set, I think it was SSE 2 or 2.1, it worked well enough to play VR games (oculus rift dev kit 1 days).
Another issue is that when cpu makers deprecate instructions some times, but they do this in a quite annoying way, they can add a wait, so an instruction takes much longer to run than previous cpus.
I’m not confident enough to talk in this detail about GPUs, because as we all experience, the high level compatibility api like directX or vulkan do all this all the time for us, and I don’t know graphics programming. But I do know this is more of an issue on consoles talking more directly to the hardware. But lots of switch games use vulkan so, those should TM work fine… But some games can also be programmed (intentionally like rogue squadron on GameCube, or unintentionally) to need an unintended or undocumented feature of the vulkan implementation on the switch, and those may or may not work on switch 2
Nvidia also is responsible for the Cpu design, directly or indirectly. I don’t know how much they care about being as backwards compatible with the cpu instructions as possible though. Probsbly if Nintendo has anything to say about it, they can be 99.999% compatible, with only some timing issues, which may or may not affect games.
So what is the conclusions? Of course this is speculation, and users have to test games, it will take years to know the full extent, but I think we will see near 100% compatibility for games that don’t need hardware accessories that are not compatible. If we exclude shovelware (low effort crap that somehow got into the eshop) maybe a couple to a handful of games will have big enough issues that they can’t be played. Maybe more games will have minor graphics issues, or things that look fine, but just slightly different to switch1
The Switch 2 has a new hardware size and some software (like Labo and Ring Fit) has a physical component that is sized to the original Switch/Joy-Con. It could be referring to that.
Yeha but the pessimist in me thinks of box’s backwards compatibility where only the games they curated would work. Still can’t play eternal sonata anymore.
PraiseTheSoup@lemm.ee
on 17 Jan 22:45
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Pretty sure you can still play Eternal Sonata on the last 3 generations of Xbox.
Man I’m so sorry to hear that. For me it was Lucasarts’ Gladius and they finally did add that one somewhat recently. It’s the only game I was keeping my original Xbox for.
Just as a heads up, Eternal Sonata was released on the PS3 and Xbox360. Both RCPS3 and Xenia can play Eternal Sonata even on a steamdeck. If they wont let you play it legitimately, and youve bought a copy for your old systems… thats more than enough justification to emulate in my books.
Strategic lawsuits against public participation (also known as SLAPP suits or intimidation lawsuits), or strategic litigation against public participation, are lawsuits intended to censor, intimidate, and silence critics by burdening them with the cost of a legal defense until they abandon their criticism or opposition
There are many, many variants. The idea is the smaller player can’t really afford to fight in court, so even if the larger actor has shaky legal claims they will still win.
Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
on 18 Jan 04:11
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I think Nintendo first party games are great. And I certainly don’t think they’re losing money… the Switch has the most global sales of any current console by a lot. In fact, the PS2 is the only non-Nintendo console to have sold more.
Strange that they targeted Palworld but not any of the other monster collector games that came out in the last 10 yesrs that weren’t nearly as successful.
They don’t need the money, but them wanting other developers money is what makes them do these petty lawsuits. And if they really wanted the money then they could have just made the pokemon game that Palworld ended up filling the niche for.
But they’re lazy and greedy instead of a fun games company so they choose to hire lawyers to suppress real competitors
In fact, ever since the PS4 I’ve been strictly a PC gamer.
Seeing how Microsoft was able to lower everyone’s standards by charging for online really puts things into perspective for me.
It’s great because now I don’t have to buy hardware or software. Looking forward to emulating switch 2 games before they’re even released like ToTK, lol.
threaded - newest
Needless to say I will not be buying a Switch 2 today.
I imagine the steam deck will be capable of emulating switch 2 titles nearly immediately, so there’s little reason to buy it. They really need to make their hardware comparable to their software (minus the notoriously awful Japan™ netcode)
Emulating Switch 2 games on the Steam Deck would be a challenge. Even though it’s on an outdated process node, I think it’s fair to say it’s in the same class of hardware as a Steam Deck (which is 3 years old at this point).
Deck 2, though…
The switch was weaker than the PS4, which was the same age difference at launch
Shit, I think you could actually compare it reasonably to a PS3 from 10 years before switch launch
Steam Deck’s APU maxes out at 15W while a launch PS4 does 10 times that. Not a good comparison.
They’d have to sell it for $500, if it’s comparable to the steam deck. I find that unlikely, personally.
Hardware aside, to my knowledge no one is really actively developing any of the Switch emulators due to the prior legal action that was taken.
Now, eventually it’s possible someone might do it for the Switch 2, but I wouldn’t expect anything quick as whomever does so will very likely incur the mighty wrath of Nintendo’s legal team.
Good luck getting someone to continue emulation development. The only potential chance for development is exclusively on the under web, and the dev has said that “this was supposed to be a hobby” meaning they have an out if they don’t want to continue
Yeah you’ll have to wait until at least march
No shit, it’s been case law since the 90s (Bleem, Connectix). The recent cases haven’t been about emulation, but decryption keys lifted from the BIOS.
Doesn’t matter, bait headline worked wonderfully.
You don’t say, Nintendo. Pretty sure they’re also using open source emulators, from the developers they really hate, to run their older titles.
Idk their emulation is garbage except for the suspension and rewind. A lot of the open source emulation I have seen, especially of Nintendo products, is immaculate.
Not to mention the selection of games available is pretty paltry.
Zelda 64 on the Switch was a mess at release, but the emulator has improved greatly since then.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-fYXwxuFxQ
That’s just not true. They have their own emulators, but most of the time they are inferior to community ones. I think Virtual Console releases used some kind of optimized emulators for their hardware, but didn’t care about accuracy, etc.
Fuck Nintendo!!!
Back to the forks bois
Nintendo 5 years from now: "After suing multiple fan projects and intimidating them to cease projects, Nintendo admits that they were just fan projects"
This is the company by the way that's behind on the times of technology. Like, how long did it take them to adopt broadband technology on their consoles? The Wii?
They killed Splatoon's grassroots Esport community thanks to them making a quick buck with splatoon 3, that promised a bunch of network functionality improvements that never materialized.
So now, a game that used to have multiple small but growing international tournaments now has nothing. Hell, they used to have tournaments on the main stage at PAX East.
Never got into Splatoon but it looked like great fun and kind of perfect for low-stakes competition.
Fucks sake Nintendo
It’s a great game with a very high skill ceiling, but the MMR and team balancing was absolute garbage. It was very rare that it was a close match. You usually clapped or got clapped.
They’ve been shutting down Smash Bros tournaments as well.
How they treated professional Melee and especially Project M was the moment I realized Nintendo was just another out-of-touch company. So many indie devs would kill for fans that passionate, let alone a modding scene that robust. Nintendo threw it all away.
Edit: and that ignores the graveyard of fan games Nintendo has killed. AM2R, Pokémon Uranium…
Yeah this was my first moment also and largely why I will never pay for NSO+. How they treat the esport community is crazy.
I recommend going the extra mile and no longer buying their hardware or software.
Emulation is in a great state right now, and it’s only getting better. The fewer resources scummy companies like Nintendo have from sales, the fewer resources they’ll have to go after community products.
Really hoping this isn’t a 3DS situation where they added a notch to gamecarts. Its so dumb that we can’t use game consoles like a PC and just fucking install discs if we want to without a shitty checking system.
Ok but like… given what I was hearing from those scenes that was probably for the best
I never understood why they abandoned Splatoon 2. Like, I get that they have a new game, and that’s great, I guess…but why not support Splatoon 2 until Switch 2 comes out? I never bought the splatoon 3, because I JUST bought splatoon 2 like 2-3 years prior when it came out. You NEED online to play that game.
So you’re paying $59.99 for the game, and then $20 a year for online. All for a game that exists in a time bubble. Once it’s time for the next game, fuck you. Buy the new game. Your old game means nothing.
Well fuck you too Nintendo. I’ll just not buy Splatoon 3, and not pay for online anymore. How about that?
You mean $60.
No, I mean $59.99
Good job doing their dirty work for them.
Prices only end in .99 to fool people like you into thinking products cost less than they actually do.
No, I’m not fooled about the price. It costs exactly $59.99 + local tax. Saying it costs $60 is overstating it’s price by $0.01.
As one of the leaders in said community for the NA scene I wouldn’t lay the blame entirely on Splat3. Things were slowing down before then and a lot of the old guard were hanging up their hats.
Networking left much to be desired, but we also started the grassroots on the Wii U after all.
Fair, I have connections to a few that were fairly serious during 2, most of which were in tournies, one of those never bought 3, but the rest gave it a shot.
The ripoff that is S3 seems to be nails in the proverbial coffin.
Yeah the transition between games was hard. 1 to 2 was ok-ish as there was excitement on the switch. 2 to 3 was rough as the average comp player was between high school and college aged which had less disposable income to get the game right away. Not to mention each time was a hard reset on both maps and equipment that slowly rolled out over time made getting cohesive teams extra hard…
Holy fuck, why do the multi-billion dollar companies need to wait until their 3rd game to have decent netcode?
Edit: And apparently even that wasn’t enough, because it “never materialized.”
Game Cube had a network adapter, but few games used it. It did let you do 8 player Mario Kart.
As on addon or built-in? I know the GameCube had an Ethernet add-on and I think the N64 had a dialup addon (Would have been the fastest at the time for home users, nobody had home broadband on N64 release)
The Wii was the first to have it built in
As built in.
.
The original Xbox (2001) came with integrated Ethernet
I think you forgot about the XBox360
And the OG Xbox. And the Dreamcast.
360 didn’t launch with built in wireless though. But yeah you’re right that’s worth mentioning
If we’re just mentioning internet connectivity, the PS2 did end up getting the ethernet + HDD expansion adapter <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/000f315e-32eb-44b5-b142-611fddb3b314.jpeg">.
I remember playing MGS Online that way with friends back in the day.
Yep, and some PS2s (like mine) came with the network adapter built-in!
Never going to forget the days of having a 30-foot ethernet cable running across my living room (right under the doorway) so I can play Battlefront 2, Ratchet and Clank 3, and of course, MGS3 online.
Folks pointing out GCN/Wii internet abilities are missing that the experience was awful. Like sure, the guts of broadband were there, but actually playing a game with friends online was way more trouble than it was worth.
So to your point, real online gaming was indeed way behind other consoles (IMHO).
I stopped playing Mario Kart online with others on the Wii. Some players had set an infinite blue shells hack on. Just wasn’t fun to play. Complained to Nintendo and they replied like there was nothing they could do or something like that.
on the bright side you could literally use their eShop to download games you don’t own if you had a hacked switch
I’m pretty sure the switch didn’t support Bluetooth connectivity for years until they finally decided to enable it just after I bought one.
That is the action of a company either incredibly incompetent, or that was hoping to exploit it for financial gain.
Why not both
Yup, they changed their minds. Bluetooth, Titles on mobile. It’s this mish-mash of bullheadedness for the sake of being bullheaded, then the try like a decade later.
Nintendo is competent at exactly 1 thing - designing great video games.
They are run by the equivalent of dwarven master blacksmiths… They’re one of the few gaming companies with employees on staff with more than 40 years experience of game dev (and whom have ONLY ever worked at Nintendo their entire careers) in charge of things.
That’s great if you like Zelda and Mario games… but because they’re run by a bunch of old-school grandpas… they’re not good at much else.
Terrible store, multiplayer, ancillary modern network-driven services like voice chat and partying up, little to no 3rd-party support (whether it’s games, media apps, or even tech integrations with formats like Dolby ATMOS), and - as a benefit - really terrible device security so it’s usually pretty easy for folks to reverse engineer, run custom boot-loaders / jailbreak / scrape their store servers / etc. - stuff that companies like Sony and Microsoft either never had issues with - or have taken seriously long enough that they have locked down.
The only reason they’re still in business is that they still do the one thing that matters most the best - design really great game-play mechanics for IP that is beloved by multiple generations of gamers who will overlook everything else.
I don’t think people remember, but there was a time when no twitch streamer or youtuber would play Nintendo games because they fucking take down their streams for copyright infringement.
I owned Mario Kart 8 for Wii U and it had a feature to record gameplay and post it to YouTube.
I post a clip once and they fucking claimed ad revenue on it.
Sue them back, for a feature built in!
What a brilliant racket. Have people do all the work of getting a channel going, then claim the money for yourself.
That’s not entirely true, you could keep the videos up if all the ad revenue went to Nintendo. In other words, if you paid them so you could promote their game.
I’m personally surprised by Nintendo continuing to include user accessible SD cards in their consoles from the DS through the Switch. It becomes incredibly convenient for piracy and I would have thought they were doing it on purpose to at least sell the hardware if it wasn’t for all the evidence you the contrary.
IMO SD cards are not good for gaming and accessible M.2 should be more common
Okay, but as I understand PlayStation and Xbox do not have easily accessible drive ports at all. Or am I mistaken?
The ps5 port only requires one screw to access. I know the hard drive on the PS4 was only one screw to access as well. I’m uncertain of the Xbox, they had a proprietary hard drive for the 360 so I didn’t go down that path. While that is slightly more complicated than inserting a SD card, it is not technical.
It’s not about what is common but instead that micro sd cards aren’t typically designed for so many reads and writes.
M.2 seems easier for normies to mess up and SD cards have traditionally been significantly cheaper… plus a microSD card is smaller than M.2 by an order of magnitude.
Yeah that way the ROG ally can cook them right
I’d love a handheld with a little slot where you just slide a 2242 M.2 without having to open the device.
While I agree they’re behind the times on their consoles re online, I think it’s more a software issue. I don’t think criticising the hardware functionality is quite fair.
The predecessor to the Wii was the Gamecube which came out in 2001, where few people had broadband internet
The other consoles in that generation were the ps2, xbox, and briefly dreamcast. Of those, only the xbox came with built in networking, until the playstation slim release in 2004. The dreamcast, ps2 and Gamecube all offered additional adapters to provide ethernet (and the dreamcast and Gamecube had dial up modems available too). So the Gamecube was in line with most of the competition.
The Wii had out of the box WiFi (and an adapter for ethernet available) which put it in a similar space to its competitors. Only the ps3 had both WiFi and ethernet out of the box at launch. The 360 only had ethernet until a refresh that added WIFI. And the Wii was also coming in at a significantly lower price point.
Just mild correction, the Dreamcast came with the dialup modem. So while it wasnt as good, it had functional internet for 99 out of the box
Didn’t the GameCube have a broadband adapter you could buy. Swear I had one to play PSO
So when they shut down Ryujinx and Yuzu, was it basically “Stop running this emulator or we will ruin your lives with legal bills”?
Iirc, and take this with a grain of salt, ryujinx actually got paid by Nintendo to stop development.
That’s a rumor. All we know is that they talked with the dev behind closed doors and he deleted everything related to Ryujinx afterwards. Sure, they could have paid him but it’s just as likely that they just threatened him. Let’s not forget how Nintendo made its money.
Is it possible to emulate without bypassing encryption?
In theory, it’s possible for games that don’t use encryption. None of which are official Switch games.
I don’t recall finding any encryption on the NES.
Yes, this wasn’t an admission because it’s a well-known fact that is not inconsistent with Nintendo’s earlier actions. The headline is deceptive and people don’t read the article. The article itself contains no new information and it is only worth reading for someone who has been deceived by the headline and needs to be set straight by the same people who wrote the deceptive headline. It’s click bait that shouldn’t exist.
Nintendo used to have a page on emulation on their website incorrectly claiming that it was always illegal and all emulators had solely been created to enable piracy. This new claim is not compatible with their previous action of having that page.
Repeal the DMCA. One of the worst pieces of legislation ever passed.
while were at it, let’s get rid of copyright and IP law altogether
I’m sure we’ll have much better content too, once lots of companies stop investing in games, movies, and shows if that happens 🙄
With the Switch 2 announcement, it’s kind of clear that they aren’t even trying to be a tech company anymore. While not every last one of their consoles released was a true innovation, it did feel like something that was built into part of their brand. Now we just have the Switch 2 which is mostly what you’d expect with some decent QoL upgrades.
Nintendo is pursuing the walled garden approach. You’re barely even buying a console anymore, a lot of this hardware has more or less converged. What you’re buying is access to the cultivated ecosystem. Like everything else these days, they entice you in with the big, recognizable brands and hope there’s enough else to keep you there. Emulators straight pierce that veil and it’s why they went so hard on them.
I’m not criticizing (too heavily) the people that choose to hold on to the franchises they love, but once you step outside and choose alternatives, there’s very little to bring you back. Pokemon lost me a few gens ago, honestly not the biggest Zelda fan, and Mario alone won’t do it for me. Metroid and Starfox are scattershot … Personally I’ll stick with the Steam Deck and wait for Switch 2 emulation to roll around. And if it doesn’t, there are just so many other games to play these days.
Bingo. In an age where most people’s phones have better hardware than the Switch, it’s all about access to the walled garden instead of hardware.
Not that I disagree with your point about walled gardens, but “better” hardware for a handheld gaming machine needs to have a decent balance between performance and battery life. Longest plane or train journey that I’m likely to take is about five hours, and I’d need to rate any gaming hardware on the ability to run for that length of time. On that basis, the Switch is pretty much optimal. My phone has a higher resolution and can probably push more frames, but it would run hot for about forty-five minutes maximum. Plus, I’d then not be able to make calls or listen to tunes at my destination.
Steam deck would probably be a better choice, though. Fuck Nintendo.
What walled garden are you talking about? Exclusive games? Literally every console ever made has those.
Nintendo bad for making QoL console releases? Again, Nintendo is not the only company to do that. PS4/PS5 Pro, the recent Xboxes, etc
With emulators, they’re only trying to protect their current hardware. They’ve put basically zero effort into shutting down emulators for consoles they don’t sell anymore. Yeah, I’m with everyone else in wishing they didn’t shut down the switch emulators but it’s somewhat understandable that they’re trying to protect their revenue from hardware sales
.
Nintendo has a history of doing something different each hardware generation: Snes had the 4 button + shoulder buttons controller. N64 controller was designed for someone with 3 hands, DS had 2 screens, 3DS had 3d without glasses, Wii had motion controls, Wii U the tablet controller, Switch is a console and portable… Every system had something that made it unique. What’s unique about the Switch 2?
Nintendo is not able to compete with other consoles on power, it’s the unique hardware that gives a reason to own it over something else.
Technically correct. They may not be shutting down emulators, but if they hear a whisper of a ROM for Mappy Land on the NES they have their lawyers on speed dial. ( Me typing that sentence means someone from Nintendo is now watching this thread to see if anyone links to a ROM.)
I don’t think Nintendo ever tried to be a tech company. They have always been a game company first and foremost. If they were ever a kind of tech company, the closest analogy would be Apple, another company that focused on consumer electronics.
I wouldn’t say ALWAYS, seeing as how they also tried their hand at taxis and love hotels for a while there.
I was a life long Nintendo fan boy. I have every system excluding the virtual boy cuz of the headaches, and the Wii u because I was under employed when it released. I stopped buying Nintendo after Gary Bowser, their software is janky, and bad for 2000’s level of web portal. I had already complained to Nintendo as a long term investor, and instead of innovating their software and hardware, they litigate away anything that might be considered competition and sue into poverty anyone that alters the devices. I never altered my switch, but I stand on the side of the hackers because Nintendo desperately needed to create a quality software core for their switch family. They want their software to be an extremely basic game launcher, and in modern software terms, that’s just incompetent. I stopped buying Nintendo because Nintendo stopped innovating their software, started litigating their profits, and relied solely on old worn out IP instead of creating something new and fresh. You know how many new games are gonna launch on switch 2? Less than 5. Know what one of the first 10 games is gonna be? Mario. Want another? Probably a racing game that’s another rehash but has something blandly new and shiny, like space ship racing with gerbils(instead of diddy Kong racing, or jet ski racing etc). Nintendo has no new IP ideas, and while I was mostly OK suffering through the tired old crap to get to whatever gameplay innovation they made, they seem to have abandoned the gameplay innovation entirely, and are just suing people to force them to play their games the way they want, even if they already received money for the game and system. Whatever they might have in store for the switch 2, so long as Gary Bowser is living in debt to Nintendo, I will never purchase another Nintendo product new, ever again, and I will only purchase used if they have an absolute banger of a game, but I’m only buying that used as well. No profit to Nintendo. I can buy off eBay.
Time to counter-sue?
You know they got DEEP pockets.
Stop buying Nintendo, mkay?
Nintendo lost my business long ago nothing they make or say will get me to buy another Nintendo product
There’s nothing new in this article. And I don’t think Nintendo ever said that emulation is illegal, just emulating their games is, which technically is true to some part at least in the United States, where sometimes you need to circumvent some security measures to get games emulated which is a forbidden (this is mentioned in the article).
Yea, if I recall correctly, the Yuzu team was sharing roms of latest Nintendo releases internally and Nintendo was able to prove it. At least Jeff Gerstman podcast suggested something to that accord when reporting on it.
Yeah and the Yuzu people had made something like 4 million bucks on the project too. When you start making serious cash off of tools for piracy (and when we’re talking about a current-gen console that’s essentially what it is, not a tool for preservation like older emulators) then you should expect some heat to come your way.
Nintendo has always been a bit on the bastardly side of things when it comes to fan projects but I can’t say that I blame them for going after Yuzu when they felt like they had a winnable case.
emulation is only legal if you pay Nintendo to steal open-source code for their emulator as a service subscription
Nah, they use Higan now.
Get a load of the nerd reading the articles and making informed opinions. Just join the rest of us in mindless circle jerking.
A very strong case could be made that dumping your keys and your games is not bypassing encryption.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/35842c58-a934-47b0-94ad-7897d0d03dcb.webp">
.
MJ had a very questionable relationship with children. Probably not GOP levels of questionable, but still disturbing.
Every single allegation was walked back by the accusers, AFTER HE DIED. You are believing a version of a lie.
Also that isn’t MJ
I heard Rockwell was even worse.
WRONG AGAIN
Source? I thought only more and more allegations came to light after his death. That “Leaving Neverland” documentary came out well after his death.
Also, that’s very obviously not Michael Jackson.
npr.org/…/michael-jackson-a-quarter-century-of-se…
In 2011, in a second autobiography called Starting Over, La Toya Jackson retracted her allegations against both her brother Michael and her father Joe, saying that she was forced to make them by her husband at the time, whom she accused of being abusive.
“My family and Michael knew that wasn’t really me talking,” the Daily Beast quotes her as saying in an interview. “I never believed for a minute my brother was guilty of anything like that.”>
The Daily Beast reports in 2013 that after very publicly and repeatedly defending Jackson, Robson now says that Jackson sexually molested him for seven years.
Two years later, in May 2015, a judge in Los Angeles County Superior Court, Mitchell L. Beckloff, dismisses Robson’s suit against the estate, saying that he waited too long to file his claim. In December 2017, the same judge dismisses the rest of Robson’s suit, filed against Jackson’s two companies, MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures, because the two corporations could not be found liable for Jackson’s alleged behavior. Notably, neither of these judgments address the credibility of Robson’s accusations.
James Safechuck files a similar suit against MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures in 2014, alleging that Jackson abused him on “hundreds” of occasions between 1988 and 1992. Beckloff, who is also the presiding judge in this suit, rejects Safechuck’s suit in June 2017 on the same grounds he gave Robson.>
His sister walked back her accusations citing her husband being abusive to try and get money from Michael’s downfall. The two accusers, AFTER HE DIED, were literally told they had no case. One of them had originally defended MJ.
Huh. TIL.
In the end, it really would be great to have some real confirmation that it was all bullshit, and he got set up.
It’s one of those things I’ve heard repeated in enough different contexts, for so many years, it’s real hard for me to believe it’s not true.
That said, Thriller, Billie Jean, Pretty Young Thing… those songs fuckin slap.
Typical jealous man falsely accusing a dead man because he can’t defend himself
Now shoo shoo criminal
Whatever happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt
The court of public opinion sadly does not follow courtroom procedure.
Until it happens to them
It’s been proven that he didn’t do that shit, he was a weirdo, but sex did not interest him.
FBI tried to bust him for ages.
Did you just all-black-people-look-the-same yourself
Yeah that’s clearly Prince
Formerly Prince.
FKA Prince.
AKA “the artist”
It’s not even Lionel Richie.
But he was the one I was looking for
Heck, piracy is almost always morally correct because developers are only doing the least while charging the most.
If they want to treat business as “us vs. them”, then that’s what they’re going to get.
Yeah, that’s why I’ve been exclusively pirating and emulating your switch games, and will continue to do so
Nintendo never gets my money again, and it’s been a better experience so far doing so
Until someone publishes another one anyway
I mean, walking is not illegal but walking in private property could be.
So the lawyer says that Nintendo, despite knowing that the emulators themselves are legal, has unlawfully caused take downs and reputational damage. Sounds kind of illegal
Not really. It sounds like they haven’t gone after them for emulation, but instead for emulation-adjacent things: copying ROMs, circumventing digital locks, etc.
They explicitly mention (one of?) the developers of Yuzu sharing ROMs in the article.
In other words, the emulator itself isn’t illegal, but in order to use the emulator the way most people want, you have to do illegal things, and that’s what they go after you for.
Logical conclusion takedown of the ROM’s and not the emulator. ROM’s can be obtained without problems, I don’t regularly read that sites are taken down or people are taken up. That’s just a convenient excuse. Nintendo just knows that their only argument is exclusive titles. Who would still want a Wii if you could use it better on the steam deck with yuzu?
I also remember that I often read that you have to organize such and such files yourself. Where then reference was made to original hardware/data carriers and not to Rom pages etc. I had problems with Zelda in particular.
Right, emulators aren’t illegal but a bunch of adjacent things can be - for example system BIOS/FW/encryption keys/ROMs if you don’t dump them yourself from your own personal hardware.
What got Yuzu in the crosshairs was announcing support for Tears of the Kingdom before it released, meaning they were testing their emulator on an unreleased game and the odds that every dev and tester had legitimately gotten a copy of the game before official release is so low that they weren’t about to fight it and go through discovery (which might have identified significant additional piracy on their part). It was easier to fold and settle, and probably saved them from an immense amount of fines for piracy used for testing.
I remember that Valve also caused trouble there. youtu.be/aRnZrSBK3R4 Since you saw the Yuzu surface briefly.
Even vimm’s has been scorched of most Nintendo properties. So they definitely take down ROM sites.
I don’t want to contradict that at all. I’m not up to date and only read articles on “IT” sites, but these mostly refer to the fight against F/OSS which is then directed against the emulators. They hardly ever mention action against ROM sites.
Guys we got em
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/fc302dc0-4b2a-436c-8e61-9b8e6a16f2c3.jpeg">
$600 <-> prolly three fiddy
Not sure why this is getting down votes. Price is the key factor most parents look at, and most people who aren’t into technology probably don’t know what the steam deck is or know what “gaming on Linux” means. That is what is stopping a good friend of mine. Price is a huge factor, but the intimidation from lack of knowledge is just as big
If it wasn’t for the fact that a lot of people here have a good sized Steam library, I doubt they’d have a Steam Deck either.
It’s more a “bonus way to play about half your PC games on the toilet” than it is a primary gaming platform.
Nah, you’re not giving the steam deck nearly enough credit. It fills a very similar niche to the switch - a viable mobile gaming option that can also be readily used for couch gaming. You don’t need a large steam library to get use out of that, just like how the average switch owner probably only has a few switch games.
You could. But realistically how many have?
AAAAAH. WAAAT. NO. DON’T PLAY ON THE TOILET. COME ON, GUYS.
I’ve tripled my library since getting a deck and use it more often than my PC.
That is not true. Steam games are normally much cheaper, you can also get tons of free games over Steam or Epic. Biggest issue with Steam Deck is the size. It is adult sized even my wife is not comfortable with it and it is too big for children. You would need to use it in combination with a controller.
Because Lemmings are completely disconnected from the real world.
No, it’s just straight up misinformation, or at least a disingenuous oversimplification.
The base model steam deck is $400 (and you can get steam-certified refurbished ones for even cheaper), and we don’t know the price of the Switch 2 yet. If it comes with even some of the hardware upgrades that have been leaked, I very much doubt it’ll retail for as low as $350.
The base SteamDeck doesn’t have an OLED screen and is still more expensive than the Switch OLED. As for the price of the Switch 2, it’s a well-known and documented practice that console manufacturers sell them at a loss and make back the profits in games. If anything, you’re the one spewing misinformation.
The base steam deck blows the OLED switch out of the water specs-wise on everything other than the screen. Nothing I’ve said is untrue, the relevant top comment is pure speculation at best.
See? This is what I mean by disconnected from the real world. Next you’re gonna tell me how open source allows you to unlock the full potential of the Steamdeck’s hardware.
Brother, you literally said the Switch 2 is not gonna be around 350 USD. You have exactly as much evidence of that as the relevant top comment has that it will be. The difference is that only your comment was serious.
Dawg you gotta be a troll if you think I’m “disconnected from the real world” just because I know that better specs is why the steam deck can handle modern games and the switch can’t. Also I said that we don’t know what the switch 2 will cost, and that I’d be surprised if it was that low. Don’t put words in my mouth.
Nope, you’re disconnected from the real world because you don’t understand the average user doesn’t care about specs they can’t see. You walking back your words now doesn’t mean you didn’t say them. Nobody is putting anything in your mouth.
K agree to disagree
You’re insufferable. You’re wrong about be price thing, just fucking admit it.
Did you respond to the wrong comment
What does the oled matter? I have both and it is not a big deal. Id rather have lcd deck than OLED switch with free access to every nintendo game.
I agree. Stupid lemmings not understanding that 400 usd switch 2, plus 70 dollar switch games that nintendo says you are allowed to play, plus paying for internet again is way cheaper than 400 usd steam deck that will get you around 20 or so games for the price of a single nintendo game off humble bundle.
Wait, that can’t be right…
Every comment you guys make just cements how disconnected from reality you really are. There’s also cheap games for the Switch.
I feel on every single social media platform I have ever been on I will see the comment
I never know how seriously to take this. I always want to automatically dismiss it because it seems like a “everyone here is delusional” type of comment and if I have had a majority of pleasant, reasonable-seeming interactions there I will really not like the idea that these seemingly nice people who had a civil, reasonable discussion with me are actually delusional, and by extension I probably am delusional too. And since I have seen it everywhere it basically seems to say nowhere online has (a decent amount of) people in touch with reality. But setting that aside for a moment…
Obviously every platform will attract different types of people, probably not a fully representative sample of the population, a skew towards this or that type of person… but how far skewed from the “normal” experience is each platform on average? What is normal? If one platform has a wild skew towards one type of person, but that type of person makes up most of what I’ll see in real life due to my environment (like who my friends and family are, what my workplace is like), does its distance from normal matter if it’s no different from my real life normal? How much? Given that a lot of people spend a lot of time online, in which they often express opinions they truly hold that they would not vocalize in real life, would you say people who eschew social media have their own disconnect from reality in some way? What social media platform is closest to the average real life normal, which is the least “disconnected from the real world”?
Let’s preface by making clear that when I say Lemmings are disconnected from reality, I don’t mean they’re delusional. I mean they’re so immersed in their unix-like free-as-in-freedom open-source technobubble that they’ve forgotten what regular people want.
As for the rest of your comment, yes, every social media will attract its own niche of people but not every platform is equally as disconnected from the real world. For example, nobody in Fragrantica (perfume social media) would recommend a regular person to buy a perfume that smells like cocaine and magazines, even though its one of the most popular fragrances among people who like perfumes. Meanwhile, on Lemmy, people love to pretend the SteamDeck is an actual alternative to the Switch.
Obligatory xkcd.
<img alt="Obligatory xkcd" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/0f537dff-2b0c-4632-a533-faaa2e5fd9fd.jpeg">
Thanks for clarifying. I do my best to compensate for any of my differences from what the average person wants, but it’s a bit hard if you and your environment also skews in that direction.
At least with tech I feel I’ve got a somewhat decent handle on “normal,” at least for my age group, which is not “grandparent struggling to turn on the computer”. I probably skew a little more crazy compared to average, I did switch my computer’s OS to Linux, but way less than people on this instance. Although I have no comment on the Switch/Steam Deck thing, I have zero desire to participate in console gaming and none of my friends are passionate enough about consoles to leak any information over to me. I’ve seen Switches around and have no idea what a Deck looks like, which might be telling, but it is also possible some of my friends have Decks and I just dismissed it as “some object”.
Because it’s a false narrative, entry level steamdeck can be had for $399.
You can one for under $300 if you buy refurbished.
Not an argument, you can also buy refurbished switch for 150 - 200
Sure. Can you play Baldur’s Gate 3 on it?
No but what’s the dumbass comparison lmao
How so? Is the price the only thing you think about when making a purchase?
If we compare the prices of two devices, we compare the prices of two devices, not the original factory price and a refurbished price.
Then why get either when you can get an used psp for like 20 bucks?
Because there are no games made for the PSP anymore.
Idk about that. Steam is a wildly popular platform and regularly markets the SteamDeck to its user base.
Exactly my point. If you aren’t using steam, you probably won’t see marketing for it.
Plenty of people use Steam
And plenty more people don’t.
Plenty of people do or use a lot of things that more people don’t. My point was that not everyone knows what a SteamDeck is. You rebutted by saying people on steam know what it is. Do you not see how terrible of an argument that is? You were basically conceding, but you worded it like you weren’t trying to make my point, even though you did.
Yes, people on steam know about the SteamDeck, the majority of the US and world population, do NOT know what steam is. Therefore, by your own logic, most people don’t know about the SteamDeck.
It’s getting down voted because it’s not $600 it’s $400. Which is exactly how much the switch costed at launch. Well not exactly. The switch cost money to play online. So it’s actually cheaper
excellent point and not trying to be pedantic, just pointing this out because i used to make the same mistake, the past tense of cost is cost.
Fuck I’m usually good with grammar
not your fault English is a mess of stolen arbitrary rules.
Additionally you can get the games much cheaper. Steam games are normally much cheaper than the Nintendo closed store. You also have Hero launcher which allows you Epic And Gog games. Epic gifts every week a new game. That alone is more than most switch players will own.
Uh, base Steamdeck is $399.
Plus accessories
Don’t you gotta buy Switch accessories too? Like kinda the same things, if you need them… a dock, extra controllers, memory card, etc? But the deck, you can use existing controllers (from other consoles, or a mouse and keyboard you might have lying around) and buy a 3rd party dock that works just as well.
I have a switch and I loved it for some games, but now that I have a steamdeck, it’s the most I’ve played games in years. Comparing accessories is moot imo, and can be cheaper on a deck… and the deck is just way more versatile overall. The Switch’s benefit is proprietary Nintendo games and that doesn’t tip the scales enough for me to buy a 2nd gen version. I’ll choose the versatility of the deck any day, it got me playing more games again
I have 0 steamdeck accessories. Works perfectly fine
I have 0 accessories. You get everything you need: case and charger. Most accessories are completely pointless rice, unless for some reason you want to use your deck as a pc. In which case it is still cheaper than switch and a pc.
Since I bring mine to libraries and gatherings, I use it like a Switch to plug into big TVs and four controllers. Thankfully it’s all still cheaper than the good stuff for a Switch 👍
Probably cheaper than the Shit 2
You mean $400.
Well, given you’re on a .ca instance, you’re likely Canadian, so $400 probably is 600 loonies.
SD is way cheaper in the long run. You already have a sizeable library and if you don’t 620 on steam deck and humble bundle is going to get you way more games than 620 spent on switch and overpriced nintendo copy paste games. Didn’t you have to pay for the internet again on switch?
Me using a gaming laptop, a solution which has been available for over a decade.
What bugs me is i thought it was cause of the switch 2 pending, but turns out the switch 2 won’t be fully backwards compatible <img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/6b3bbee5-a061-4d06-ba06-b0981b41597e.jpeg">
Our new console is backwards compatible*
* It isn’t
To be fair, (I hate Nintendo because of their crusade on open source software), but to be fair,
ps2 had issues on some Ps1 games, the list is short though, and the last few revisions of ps2 even software emulated Ps1 (don’t know the compatibility difference with hardware backwards compatibility)
Ps3 had issues with even more ps2 games, and only the first few revisions had hardware backwards compatibility, the ps2 emulation on ps3 without hardware compatibility is a mess
PS5 has issues with some ps4 games, including but not limited to psvr games, and I think I saw an official in incompatibility list by sony
Wii backwards compatibility i dont know about any issues except with games that use hardware accessories, maybe someone knows more? Later revisions dropped backward compatibility, but the hardware is still present, and homebrew will help you.
As for switch 2 to switch 1 backwards compatibility speculation, here is a educated guess. The asterisk is referring to lobo games and some other games with accessories. Why this speculative conclusion? Because of the way the hardware inside it works.
The arm cpu can be optionally designed to be completely backwards compatible. But is it? (more on that soon). The gpu part of the SOC, is most certainly not 100% binary compatible, because of what we already know about the architecture changes between these gpu generations. This isn’t limited to arm and nvidia gpus, ps5 also has these issues with x86 jaguar to ryzen, and Radeon generations.
So what about your experience with pc gpus, and cpus, and ps5 to ps4 compatibility etc? Well, emulation, the instructions, that are not compatible are emulated in software, this is common place, and in practice it works quite well. The main issue comes down to timing. Some things take different amount of time to do, like an instruction can take fewer cycles. Or if it’s emulated it can take more cycles. Emulation does work well, even if it often can have timing issues. Some times instructions from a future generation can possibly be emulated on your pc cpu. I can remember my friends computer using an installed windows driver, to emulate a future version of the SSE instruction set, I think it was SSE 2 or 2.1, it worked well enough to play VR games (oculus rift dev kit 1 days).
Another issue is that when cpu makers deprecate instructions some times, but they do this in a quite annoying way, they can add a wait, so an instruction takes much longer to run than previous cpus.
I’m not confident enough to talk in this detail about GPUs, because as we all experience, the high level compatibility api like directX or vulkan do all this all the time for us, and I don’t know graphics programming. But I do know this is more of an issue on consoles talking more directly to the hardware. But lots of switch games use vulkan so, those should TM work fine… But some games can also be programmed (intentionally like rogue squadron on GameCube, or unintentionally) to need an unintended or undocumented feature of the vulkan implementation on the switch, and those may or may not work on switch 2
Nvidia also is responsible for the Cpu design, directly or indirectly. I don’t know how much they care about being as backwards compatible with the cpu instructions as possible though. Probsbly if Nintendo has anything to say about it, they can be 99.999% compatible, with only some timing issues, which may or may not affect games.
So what is the conclusions? Of course this is speculation, and users have to test games, it will take years to know the full extent, but I think we will see near 100% compatibility for games that don’t need hardware accessories that are not compatible. If we exclude shovelware (low effort crap that somehow got into the eshop) maybe a couple to a handful of games will have big enough issues that they can’t be played. Maybe more games will have minor graphics issues, or things that look fine, but just slightly different to switch1
The Switch 2 has a new hardware size and some software (like Labo and Ring Fit) has a physical component that is sized to the original Switch/Joy-Con. It could be referring to that.
Yeha but the pessimist in me thinks of box’s backwards compatibility where only the games they curated would work. Still can’t play eternal sonata anymore.
Pretty sure you can still play Eternal Sonata on the last 3 generations of Xbox.
Nah it was never added to backwards compatibility on the xbone or series X. I tried so many times with hope in my eyes to put the disc in and nada.
Man I’m so sorry to hear that. For me it was Lucasarts’ Gladius and they finally did add that one somewhat recently. It’s the only game I was keeping my original Xbox for.
That would surprise me. It just doesn’t sound like their flavour of bullshit.
It 100% sounds like their flavor of bullshit.
Remember the “emulation console” they released?
Just as a heads up, Eternal Sonata was released on the PS3 and Xbox360. Both RCPS3 and Xenia can play Eternal Sonata even on a steamdeck. If they wont let you play it legitimately, and youve bought a copy for your old systems… thats more than enough justification to emulate in my books.
I couldn’t get the xbox version to run emulated. It was all black, none of the graphics loaded. But i did get the ps3 version working.
Hey that’s awesome. I’ve been playing drakengard 3, I never finished eternal sonata, so I think I’ll go back and do that.
I prefer my nintendont 2 (aka steam deck). Fuck Nintendo bastards and taking down all cool emulator free software projects.
Glad I still have my solid copy of Yuzu.
Never buying another console again, and it’s been years since I bought a video game.
The companies only have themselves to blame.
Yeah I have a repo clone just before takedown.
Nintendo needs to burn. The fact they can just shut down whatever they want is disgusting and needs to be stopped.
Copyright and patent laws need to die.
we know emulation is legal, but we’re still going to legally have a legal reason to take y’all emulators to court angry face
Bypassing copy protection has always been the number one reason, it was never emulation per se.
See also: …wikipedia.org/…/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public…
There are many, many variants. The idea is the smaller player can’t really afford to fight in court, so even if the larger actor has shaky legal claims they will still win.
More like nintendon’t!
Wtf
If they spent half their lawyer money on making good games they wouldn’t be losing money to competition
Arguable, but I think they do both.
I think Nintendo first party games are great. And I certainly don’t think they’re losing money… the Switch has the most global sales of any current console by a lot. In fact, the PS2 is the only non-Nintendo console to have sold more.
Strange that they targeted Palworld but not any of the other monster collector games that came out in the last 10 yesrs that weren’t nearly as successful.
They don’t need the money, but them wanting other developers money is what makes them do these petty lawsuits. And if they really wanted the money then they could have just made the pokemon game that Palworld ended up filling the niche for.
But they’re lazy and greedy instead of a fun games company so they choose to hire lawyers to suppress real competitors
Keep in mind everyone, nintendo started out as a toy company and never lost that culture.
They aren’t your friends and they aren’t “better than the rest.”
“please buy our new switch”
nah, i m good.
Glad I never bought a switch.
In fact, ever since the PS4 I’ve been strictly a PC gamer.
Seeing how Microsoft was able to lower everyone’s standards by charging for online really puts things into perspective for me.
It’s great because now I don’t have to buy hardware or software. Looking forward to emulating switch 2 games before they’re even released like ToTK, lol.