The Final Fantasy series has many loved entries in which recurring characters, archetypes and items make a looping comeback. It is very fun to see how different those elements are handled in different entries. They just need to step back and realize not every FF needs to be a game that pushes its platform to its hardware limit. That may have worked well for them up to the PS2 era, but it’s not a thing anymore. You don’t need extreme ultra realistic eye twitching for your game to be grandiose.
Aielman15@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 17:51
nextcollapse
First of all, I don’t see how a series where each and every entry is unique and has nothing to do with the previous ones (apart from a few recurring names) could be “well past done”. They don’t even share the same gameplay or combat system.
And also, Square has “tried something new” pretty much all the time. Triangle Strategy, Live a Live, Nier, Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean, SaGa, Mana series (with an upcoming title next year), Dragon Quest, Octopath Traveler… I’m just listing a few, but I could go on. It’s not even a thing they suddenly decided to do. Even a few gens back, I remember playing Star Ocean, Last Remnant, Resonance of Fate and other lesser known titles. If you want to go back to the PS1 days, Vagrant Story and Threads of Fate come to mind, but there are surely a lot more I’m currently forgetting. EDIT: Xenogears too! I don’t know how I could forget that one.
tacosanonymous@lemm.ee
on 12 Jan 2024 20:05
collapse
It saddens me that Lost Odyssey isn’t in this wonderful list you threw together.
Aielman15@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 20:47
collapse
I played Lost Odyssey and very much liked it, but it’s not Square.
It was made by Mistwalker with MS backing, after Sakaguchi left Square.
Actually, re-reading my list, I noticed that I mentioned Resonance of Fate, which wasn’t Square, either! It was published by Sega. The other titles should be correct.
tacosanonymous@lemm.ee
on 12 Jan 2024 23:41
collapse
Wait what.
Lost Odyssey is the most FF game there is. I can’t believe it wasn’t SE.
Aielman15@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 23:50
collapse
Mistwalker is the company founded by Sakaguchi, the creator of Final Fantasy. It should come to no surprise that the game is really evocative of many early FF titles.
WarmSoda@lemm.ee
on 12 Jan 2024 18:19
nextcollapse
I get the feeling you’ve never played more than one final fantasy game.
spacecowboy@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Jan 2024 19:21
nextcollapse
Boo this guy!
helloharu@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 23:14
collapse
You don’t know what you’re talking about do you?
caut_R@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 17:22
nextcollapse
Why though? Each Final Fantasy has its own world and whatnot. FF15 played a lot differently than FF13 which played a lot differently than FF12 which played a lot differently than FF9. They‘re all JRPGs of course but I don‘t see why they should throw away the brand recognition for the heck of it. It‘s not like they’re FIFAing. It seems to me like whoever is gonna develope the next game isn‘t gonna be held back by the name.
helloharu@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 23:13
collapse
Why though?
seems to be because he’s never played any of the games to understand that, thats why.
Cybersteel@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 23:16
collapse
It’s clear from the naming nomenclature that they’re sequels to each other without even needing to ever play them you halfwit
helloharu@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 23:37
nextcollapse
wahming@monyet.cc
on 13 Jan 2024 00:07
nextcollapse
Huh, turns out you do need to play a game to know about it
otp@sh.itjust.works
on 13 Jan 2024 00:26
nextcollapse
You forgot your “/s”
helloharu@lemmy.world
on 13 Jan 2024 19:06
collapse
Honestly, I picked up on that and wasn’t offended by what they said. Shame that others didn’t and they’re being downvoted for what was supposed to be a joke.
WEAPONX@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 17:45
nextcollapse
I wish they would stop with the weird hack&slash/ATB combat. Also, with PC ports they should use standard PC control scheme and menus. And i get it, PC is not big in Japan, but they are selling the games to western audiences.
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Jan 2024 18:21
nextcollapse
As a big fan of the old FFs I really enjoy the new ATB and hack and slash combat. 16 is fun and I think 7R is a great middle ground as well as being a true extension of the classic ATB stuff.
helloharu@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 23:16
collapse
People seem to forget that the ATB stuff started to come in at IV/V. I’m not sure I want the turned based mechanics and gameplay of games like FFII for the sake of misplaced nostalgia. Give me ATB any day over that.
WarmSoda@lemm.ee
on 12 Jan 2024 18:21
nextcollapse
I would love a return to turn based combat.
Katana314@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 18:26
collapse
Any return to turn-based would probably have to be careful about it. Persona 5 managed it well, but it easily reaches criticism of being too much of “Use fire on ice”. Ideally, every decision a player is making in their infinite-time turns should have some form and consequence to it. I have always hated the “solution” wherein you can turn on an Auto-Battling system. It fixes the problem, but doesn’t acknowledge that the problem is battle decisions always being completely unnecessary and routine, which itself is something that can be fixed using more intelligent game design.
Dagnet@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 18:44
nextcollapse
They already nailed the turn based system with FFX imo
fyi: SMT and Persona based their combat system on weak points way earlier than P5. I’m not saying it is immune to criticism, but it’s a series standard by now
Katana314@lemmy.world
on 13 Jan 2024 12:47
nextcollapse
Ooooooooh. Ouch. “It is a series standard” is exactly the sort of weak point that leads to some big franchises like Final Fantasy staggering.
There’s a reason games like Persona gained such popularity. It is NOT because players learned to use a thunder attack on the floating pair of chairs.
Persona’s combat system, if tweaked correctly can be a tremendous strength: there’s a chance to have a great turn-based system in which elements play the role of the main “puzzle” to strategize over with both your demons and your party cast. I agree that Persona 5 had very little strategy in it, let’s hope for future entries to be better.
I wonder what kind of battle system the new Atlus JRPG will have
Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
on 13 Jan 2024 13:05
collapse
I think they brought up p5 specifically because it’s a super-modern turn based RPG, so the same kind of thing a new, turn based, ff would be. This modern game, despite being overall well received, got some criticism for its turn based system being too much of the “use obvious elemental weakness” style strategy, and not more novel ideas.
Katana314@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 18:22
nextcollapse
It might be a good time to revisit some other long-running series that have managed a very good “reset” after running dry. Some examples that come to mind are Resident Evil 7, God of War, The Legend of Zelda, maybe some others.
At least for RE7 and God of War, it does feel like their overall goal was to reduce the action-packed scope, and focus more closely on something character-focused. RE7 doesn’t have crashing helicopters, and God of War doesn’t have you killing gods in the first 30 minutes. It definitely felt like an overall goal for FF16 was epic, bombastic scope and throwing around their budget, which obviously drove sales…but not as much lingering popularity as they hoped.
(Oh yeah, and plan a Steam release already. The world is not as console-obsessed as Japan)
IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social
on 13 Jan 2024 12:06
collapse
imho I have never experienced really good writing in any FF mainline game. Like they all have very creative and cool story arcs but it's the execution that ruins it for me. The dialogues and characters are always so cringe af, you can basically tell that the writers have based their writing framework solely on lowbrow manga. Which is fine when the dialogues weren't voiced since you could speed read trough the dialogues. Like I thought 6 and 7 were decent and 9 was okay (8 was annoying emo teen angst drama). But once they started voicing the dialogues and added longer cut scenes the bad writing just stuck out like a sore thumb. 10 was just really bad even though I loved 10 for the gameplay. I even skipped 12 because of that. With 13 they improved a bit, but with 15 they slid back almost to the level of the dialogues of 8. I haven't played 16 yet but from the trailers I've seen and based on opinions of my friends who've played it I don't have hope that the dialogues are any better.
And also Octopath and Forspoken just proofs that Square just can't write good characters and dialogues. Even when they hire non-Japanese writers. They need to look at Naughty Dog and Larian for how it's done. Neil Druckmann adheres to "Simple story complex characters" with his writing which makes his stories always compelling. While Square, and Japanese video game writers in general, always does the opposite.
I found myself involuntarily agreeing with most of this(except ff12 whose dialogue I actually enjoyed)
Yewb@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 18:59
nextcollapse
I have an idea lets make a game that embodied the spirit of the successful versions, lets stop trying to court devil may cry/elden ring fans and get back to making a turn based rpg or similar to ff10.
Ff3, ff7, ff9, ff10
Are great examples of the story lines I loved.
ShadowRam@kbin.social
on 12 Jan 2024 19:03
nextcollapse
4,6,7,10
I don't know. I know I played 9 in its entirety, but it is completely un-rememberable.
But yeah, 100% lets get back to the turn-based formula it was meant to be.
Bonus if we could go back to a 5-team instead of a 3-team
Stovetop@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 21:25
nextcollapse
5, 8, 9, and 10 are the best of the earlier games and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.
And this is why there can be no such thing as an “ideal” FF game outside of perhaps re-remastering 10 again.
otp@sh.itjust.works
on 13 Jan 2024 00:24
nextcollapse
Vivi? Beatrix? Queen Brahne? Burmecia??
I found it to be one of the most memorable FFs.
Marsupial@quokk.au
on 13 Jan 2024 05:39
nextcollapse
9 is fucking amazing. Best cast of any of that generation.
10 was the beginning of the end.
stephen01king@lemmy.zip
on 13 Jan 2024 07:30
collapse
JoeKrogan@lemmy.world
on 12 Jan 2024 21:33
nextcollapse
Preach it 🙌
stardreamer@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 12 Jan 2024 21:38
nextcollapse
It doesn’t have to be turn-based. FFXI and FFXII are also great. I feel the bigger issue is that making a story heavy game while everyone else is also making story heavy games makes it no longer unique.
I wouldn’t mind going back to ATB, but I don’t think that would win back an audience except for nostalgia points.
rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 13 Jan 2024 09:50
nextcollapse
I enjoyed all of them and FFXVI too. I think it’s okay to reinvent FF combat every iteration to keep it fresh. I’m not sure if I’d enjoy a turn based combat today like I enjoyed it 20 years ago.
I was pretty happy to let FF innovate and leave DQ as the stable JRPG release and then they announced DQ12 would be more action focused
rustydrd@sh.itjust.works
on 13 Jan 2024 20:21
collapse
Love this idea. The turn-based system in FFX was my absolute favorite, and I was really sad they didn’t follow this direction further (even for FFX-II, like WTF).
Yerbouti@lemmy.ml
on 12 Jan 2024 21:51
nextcollapse
threaded - newest
Getting hard to exploit the veterans, eh?
Nomura would probably die if he gets any more overworked.
It’s gotten so bad over there, they put Yoshi-P on a mainline FF game while simultaneously heading arguably the #1 MMORPG in the market lol
The Final Fantasy Franchise needs much more than just new developers.
Maybe they need to listen to the name and fucking end it already.
Try something new.
They’ve been “trying sometime new” since final fantasy 11.
I mean “new” as in “Not Final Fantasy.”
Not something “new” as in “New Stuff in Final Fantasy.”
No, scrap the fucker. It’s well past done.
The Final Fantasy series has many loved entries in which recurring characters, archetypes and items make a looping comeback. It is very fun to see how different those elements are handled in different entries. They just need to step back and realize not every FF needs to be a game that pushes its platform to its hardware limit. That may have worked well for them up to the PS2 era, but it’s not a thing anymore. You don’t need extreme ultra realistic eye twitching for your game to be grandiose.
First of all, I don’t see how a series where each and every entry is unique and has nothing to do with the previous ones (apart from a few recurring names) could be “well past done”. They don’t even share the same gameplay or combat system.
And also, Square has “tried something new” pretty much all the time. Triangle Strategy, Live a Live, Nier, Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean, SaGa, Mana series (with an upcoming title next year), Dragon Quest, Octopath Traveler… I’m just listing a few, but I could go on. It’s not even a thing they suddenly decided to do. Even a few gens back, I remember playing Star Ocean, Last Remnant,
Resonance of Fateand other lesser known titles. If you want to go back to the PS1 days, Vagrant Story and Threads of Fate come to mind, but there are surely a lot more I’m currently forgetting. EDIT: Xenogears too! I don’t know how I could forget that one.It saddens me that Lost Odyssey isn’t in this wonderful list you threw together.
I played Lost Odyssey and very much liked it, but it’s not Square.
It was made by Mistwalker with MS backing, after Sakaguchi left Square.
Actually, re-reading my list, I noticed that I mentioned Resonance of Fate, which wasn’t Square, either! It was published by Sega. The other titles should be correct.
Wait what.
Lost Odyssey is the most FF game there is. I can’t believe it wasn’t SE.
Mistwalker is the company founded by Sakaguchi, the creator of Final Fantasy. It should come to no surprise that the game is really evocative of many early FF titles.
I get the feeling you’ve never played more than one final fantasy game.
Boo this guy!
You don’t know what you’re talking about do you?
Why though? Each Final Fantasy has its own world and whatnot. FF15 played a lot differently than FF13 which played a lot differently than FF12 which played a lot differently than FF9. They‘re all JRPGs of course but I don‘t see why they should throw away the brand recognition for the heck of it. It‘s not like they’re FIFAing. It seems to me like whoever is gonna develope the next game isn‘t gonna be held back by the name.
seems to be because he’s never played any of the games to understand that, thats why.
It’s clear from the naming nomenclature that they’re sequels to each other without even needing to ever play them you halfwit
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/694692d4-24c9-4fc4-a634-84db5607ee5c.jpeg">
Huh, turns out you do need to play a game to know about it
You forgot your “/s”
Honestly, I picked up on that and wasn’t offended by what they said. Shame that others didn’t and they’re being downvoted for what was supposed to be a joke.
Do you know what the word anthology means?
Uhh what? Square Enix has a ton of games that aren’t final fantasy
Roflmao, yeah, it should be more along the lines of the “Yet Another Fantasy” series. False advertising is what that is /s.
Like The Never Ending Story.
“haha the name!”.
The laziest of “jokes” possible.
I wish they would stop with the weird hack&slash/ATB combat. Also, with PC ports they should use standard PC control scheme and menus. And i get it, PC is not big in Japan, but they are selling the games to western audiences.
As a big fan of the old FFs I really enjoy the new ATB and hack and slash combat. 16 is fun and I think 7R is a great middle ground as well as being a true extension of the classic ATB stuff.
People seem to forget that the ATB stuff started to come in at IV/V. I’m not sure I want the turned based mechanics and gameplay of games like FFII for the sake of misplaced nostalgia. Give me ATB any day over that.
I would love a return to turn based combat.
Any return to turn-based would probably have to be careful about it. Persona 5 managed it well, but it easily reaches criticism of being too much of “Use fire on ice”. Ideally, every decision a player is making in their infinite-time turns should have some form and consequence to it. I have always hated the “solution” wherein you can turn on an Auto-Battling system. It fixes the problem, but doesn’t acknowledge that the problem is battle decisions always being completely unnecessary and routine, which itself is something that can be fixed using more intelligent game design.
They already nailed the turn based system with FFX imo
fyi: SMT and Persona based their combat system on weak points way earlier than P5. I’m not saying it is immune to criticism, but it’s a series standard by now
Ooooooooh. Ouch. “It is a series standard” is exactly the sort of weak point that leads to some big franchises like Final Fantasy staggering.
There’s a reason games like Persona gained such popularity. It is NOT because players learned to use a thunder attack on the floating pair of chairs.
Persona’s combat system, if tweaked correctly can be a tremendous strength: there’s a chance to have a great turn-based system in which elements play the role of the main “puzzle” to strategize over with both your demons and your party cast. I agree that Persona 5 had very little strategy in it, let’s hope for future entries to be better.
I wonder what kind of battle system the new Atlus JRPG will have
I think they brought up p5 specifically because it’s a super-modern turn based RPG, so the same kind of thing a new, turn based, ff would be. This modern game, despite being overall well received, got some criticism for its turn based system being too much of the “use obvious elemental weakness” style strategy, and not more novel ideas.
It might be a good time to revisit some other long-running series that have managed a very good “reset” after running dry. Some examples that come to mind are Resident Evil 7, God of War, The Legend of Zelda, maybe some others.
At least for RE7 and God of War, it does feel like their overall goal was to reduce the action-packed scope, and focus more closely on something character-focused. RE7 doesn’t have crashing helicopters, and God of War doesn’t have you killing gods in the first 30 minutes. It definitely felt like an overall goal for FF16 was epic, bombastic scope and throwing around their budget, which obviously drove sales…but not as much lingering popularity as they hoped.
(Oh yeah, and plan a Steam release already. The world is not as console-obsessed as Japan)
.
Square needs to hire good writers.
What would you consider the last Final Fantasy game they made with good writing?
Final Fantasy 7: The Tale of the Mungus.
imho I have never experienced really good writing in any FF mainline game. Like they all have very creative and cool story arcs but it's the execution that ruins it for me. The dialogues and characters are always so cringe af, you can basically tell that the writers have based their writing framework solely on lowbrow manga. Which is fine when the dialogues weren't voiced since you could speed read trough the dialogues. Like I thought 6 and 7 were decent and 9 was okay (8 was annoying emo teen angst drama). But once they started voicing the dialogues and added longer cut scenes the bad writing just stuck out like a sore thumb. 10 was just really bad even though I loved 10 for the gameplay. I even skipped 12 because of that. With 13 they improved a bit, but with 15 they slid back almost to the level of the dialogues of 8. I haven't played 16 yet but from the trailers I've seen and based on opinions of my friends who've played it I don't have hope that the dialogues are any better.
And also Octopath and Forspoken just proofs that Square just can't write good characters and dialogues. Even when they hire non-Japanese writers. They need to look at Naughty Dog and Larian for how it's done. Neil Druckmann adheres to "Simple story complex characters" with his writing which makes his stories always compelling. While Square, and Japanese video game writers in general, always does the opposite.
I found myself involuntarily agreeing with most of this(except ff12 whose dialogue I actually enjoyed)
I have an idea lets make a game that embodied the spirit of the successful versions, lets stop trying to court devil may cry/elden ring fans and get back to making a turn based rpg or similar to ff10.
Ff3, ff7, ff9, ff10
Are great examples of the story lines I loved.
4,6,7,10
I don't know. I know I played 9 in its entirety, but it is completely un-rememberable.
But yeah, 100% lets get back to the turn-based formula it was meant to be.
Bonus if we could go back to a 5-team instead of a 3-team
5, 8, 9, and 10 are the best of the earlier games and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.
And this is why there can be no such thing as an “ideal” FF game outside of perhaps re-remastering 10 again.
Vivi? Beatrix? Queen Brahne? Burmecia??
I found it to be one of the most memorable FFs.
9 is fucking amazing. Best cast of any of that generation.
10 was the beginning of the end.
No, I love 12, so don’t even start on that.
Oh that was the super linear one with wish.com Spike and the bunny girl?
Explain what you mean by linear.
Only issue with 9 is it’s slow
Preach it 🙌
It doesn’t have to be turn-based. FFXI and FFXII are also great. I feel the bigger issue is that making a story heavy game while everyone else is also making story heavy games makes it no longer unique.
I wouldn’t mind going back to ATB, but I don’t think that would win back an audience except for nostalgia points.
Maybe more FF:T though? Kinda miss that.
I would love a modern FFT or even a paid mobile one with good mobile controls.
.
I enjoyed all of them and FFXVI too. I think it’s okay to reinvent FF combat every iteration to keep it fresh. I’m not sure if I’d enjoy a turn based combat today like I enjoyed it 20 years ago.
I was pretty happy to let FF innovate and leave DQ as the stable JRPG release and then they announced DQ12 would be more action focused
Love this idea. The turn-based system in FFX was my absolute favorite, and I was really sad they didn’t follow this direction further (even for FFX-II, like WTF).
FF should be a turn based RPG. That’s it.
.
Nine was the last good one.
I’m old too, but 10 was good, and 10-2 had a really fun class system that reminded me of FF5.
I haven’t played 15 or 16, nor the 13 series (though I enjoyed 13, I don’t think it’s as good as the other good entires).
I like 9, but 10 and 12 are good as will.
Put the RPG back into the JRPG. Will help.