SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org
on 27 Jul 12:18
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The problem with video games and being ‘evil’ is a lack of nuance or exploring the space.
You can either be ‘good’ or ‘evil’ and there might not be much middle ground nor realistic reasons for being either.
TTRPGs are much better places to explore this dichotomy in because you can have actual reasons and it’s not just about being a mustache-twirling villain or goodie two shoes.
Additionally, so many games struggle with implementing evil choices or quest resolutions that are actually satisfying or at least interesting. For example, how many times have you seen an NPC ask for a favour and the Good option is “okay I’ll accept this sidequest” and the Evil is “fuck you, I’ll decline your side quest”? How many times does the Evil option just involve murder hobo-ing to the extent that you lose a ton of content because you kill off companions and quest givers?
SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org
on 27 Jul 12:37
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SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org
on 27 Jul 13:32
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Okidoke, thanks for explaining!
Paradachshund@lemmy.today
on 27 Jul 15:08
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I think this is a big problem even without evil choices. I really want to see more games explore things happening because you DIDN’T accept someone’s quest. Maybe something bad happens to them, or perhaps they resent you for turning them down and spread bad rumors about you.
Sadly like you said most of the time the choice in taking a quest is actually: do you want more content, or not? Not much of a choice at all.
tacosanonymous@mander.xyz
on 27 Jul 13:08
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I remember a bunch of games that let you be in the gray areas but they only incentivize the extremes.
SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org
on 27 Jul 13:33
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Ah yeah, this is a problem. I agree.
Paradachshund@lemmy.today
on 27 Jul 15:05
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I think that evil paths in games are often the least interesting, too. Usually it just means you kill everyone and/or fuck people over for no good reason. Like you said there’s no depth. You almost never have to face any growing consequences for your actions.
Real evil is usually greed and fear weaponized to enrich and empower oneself. It’s self-interested and often delusional, but to that person they are still the hero of their story.
Undertale taught me how to be evil in RPGs. Without giving you spoilers: it puts that tendency of players of “gotta to see it all!” against their morality.
SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org
on 28 Jul 14:34
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Being evil is brutal in BG3. They have you go through turn-based combat to murder defenseless civilians, party members are totally broken by the actions they took and openly hate you, and the party members that stay comment on how much of a backstabbing bastard you are.
It's nothing like a campy, fun Mass Effect renegade playthrough. Kinda depressing honestly.
GrantUsEyes@lemmy.zip
on 27 Jul 21:14
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Idk, Gale got over my atrocities pretty fast. I wanted him to stay but resent me. Instead we were back to normal and it was strange, must be the high charisma of my character. I starded my evil sor-lock playthrough last year and haven’t finished it, so I might check this article out 'cause some stuff does feel bad man… Haha
ConstableJelly@midwest.social
on 27 Jul 22:20
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I’m trying it now, and it’s tough. Karlach is one of my all time favorite characters so being on her bad side in particular is rough. The main incentive is just seeing a fresher side to events the game overall after two nobler playthrough.
The only way I could manage my evil dark urge & minthara playthrough was to leave Karlach entirely unrecruited. Not that you could even get that far with her anyway as she doesn’t agree with evil choices and will sooner or later leave.
My main character for D&D is a chaotic evil cleric who follows Cyric. It’s awesome being the one evil character in a party of goody-two-shoes, gaslighting and manipulating them into distrusting each other and otherwise foiling plans for sheer entertainment. As long as shit doesn’t break into all out war, that is. Cyric and the god of war hate each other. 😌
SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org
on 28 Jul 14:35
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threaded - newest
The problem with video games and being ‘evil’ is a lack of nuance or exploring the space.
You can either be ‘good’ or ‘evil’ and there might not be much middle ground nor realistic reasons for being either.
TTRPGs are much better places to explore this dichotomy in because you can have actual reasons and it’s not just about being a mustache-twirling villain or goodie two shoes.
Additionally, so many games struggle with implementing evil choices or quest resolutions that are actually satisfying or at least interesting. For example, how many times have you seen an NPC ask for a favour and the Good option is “okay I’ll accept this sidequest” and the Evil is “fuck you, I’ll decline your side quest”? How many times does the Evil option just involve murder hobo-ing to the extent that you lose a ton of content because you kill off companions and quest givers?
If you mean just video games, then yes we agree.
TTRPGs can be this way, but don’t have to be.
Yes, I was talking about video games.
Okidoke, thanks for explaining!
I think this is a big problem even without evil choices. I really want to see more games explore things happening because you DIDN’T accept someone’s quest. Maybe something bad happens to them, or perhaps they resent you for turning them down and spread bad rumors about you.
Sadly like you said most of the time the choice in taking a quest is actually: do you want more content, or not? Not much of a choice at all.
I remember a bunch of games that let you be in the gray areas but they only incentivize the extremes.
Ah yeah, this is a problem. I agree.
I think that evil paths in games are often the least interesting, too. Usually it just means you kill everyone and/or fuck people over for no good reason. Like you said there’s no depth. You almost never have to face any growing consequences for your actions.
Real evil is usually greed and fear weaponized to enrich and empower oneself. It’s self-interested and often delusional, but to that person they are still the hero of their story.
Undertale taught me how to be evil in RPGs. Without giving you spoilers: it puts that tendency of players of “gotta to see it all!” against their morality.
Yeah, undertale was amazing at this!
I’ve been too nice playing through Overlord. A game about a Sauron-like evil overlord.
There’s a special ending cinematic when you do so, the game’s disrespecting you quite a bit.
Being evil is brutal in BG3. They have you go through turn-based combat to murder defenseless civilians, party members are totally broken by the actions they took and openly hate you, and the party members that stay comment on how much of a backstabbing bastard you are.
It's nothing like a campy, fun Mass Effect renegade playthrough. Kinda depressing honestly.
Idk, Gale got over my atrocities pretty fast. I wanted him to stay but resent me. Instead we were back to normal and it was strange, must be the high charisma of my character. I starded my evil sor-lock playthrough last year and haven’t finished it, so I might check this article out 'cause some stuff does feel bad man… Haha
I’m trying it now, and it’s tough. Karlach is one of my all time favorite characters so being on her bad side in particular is rough. The main incentive is just seeing a fresher side to events the game overall after two nobler playthrough.
The only way I could manage my evil dark urge & minthara playthrough was to leave Karlach entirely unrecruited. Not that you could even get that far with her anyway as she doesn’t agree with evil choices and will sooner or later leave.
I also left Karlach alone, I could never hurt her.
I tried it in BG3 and just nopped out. I just can’t do it. Neutral at worst for me.
My main character for D&D is a chaotic evil cleric who follows Cyric. It’s awesome being the one evil character in a party of goody-two-shoes, gaslighting and manipulating them into distrusting each other and otherwise foiling plans for sheer entertainment. As long as shit doesn’t break into all out war, that is. Cyric and the god of war hate each other. 😌
Wow, that does sound interesting.