from apotheotic@beehaw.org to gaming@beehaw.org on 29 Jul 2024 12:35
https://beehaw.org/post/15246680
I’m trying my best to dive back into the past and play all the gems that I missed as a kid because I was either born too late or too much of a kid to consider playing them. I found myself really disappointed going back to the old mario nes/snes titles because they felt really bad to play as I’ve become accustomed to modern platformer design sensibilities (like coyote time and responsive movement).
Are there any oldies+goldies that have stood up to the test of time and not shown their age in the same way? Or are so good that they’re worth playing despite showing their age? Preferably avoiding racing, sports, and final fantasy-esque titles. Not really interested in anything more recent than PS2 era either.
I already have Earthbound in my sights as it isn’t one I’ve played before but it comes highly recommended.
threaded - newest
I’ll list off some of the older titles on my faves list
I’m def missing some here. I would argue not all of these have necessarily stood the test of time if we look at it from a modern sensibility lens. Particularly resident evil 1-3 and silent hill 1 can be a bit difficult to play if you can’t get used to tank controls. And Myst can be a bit esoteric, especially the older versions.
Besides that though I really do think these have all stood the test of time. I would like to particularly shout out the original re4. Despite having a recent remake that I adore potentially more than the original, the original is still so good even to this day. It is wild to me how well it still feels to play
Did they rewrite it in later ports? Also curious as to where you stand on Zork.
No it’s not rewritten. Mainly I just think the pre rendered picture movement of the original can be harder to explore and piece things together than the fully 3d environment of the remakes.
As for Zork, I only played a very small amount for a school assignment lol. I considered it esoteric in a way I feel all text adventures are, but I really don’t have enough experience to say.
You could play mother 1 for sure if it interests you, although it’s aged the worst out of the 3 in my opinion.
Sad about Mario world :( I find it to be one of the least floaty Mario games, partially due to a mechanic in the game that isn’t present on many others where the speed of your fall is controlled by holding the jump button (many games have variable height by holding the jump button, but few have it so the speed of the fall down is controllable)
As for silent hill I’d argue that they could be seen as more puzzley. There are bosses and enemies of course, but it’s not usually a constant enemy fest. In silent hill 2 (and maybe 3 I can’t quite remember) there are separate combat and puzzle difficulty settings, so you can set easy combat and hard puzzles. Of the original silent hills id recommend silent hill 2 the most. You don’t need to play any others to get it, it’s a self contained story.
If it has aged poorly and isn’t really necessary to enjoy the others, I’ll give it a miss.
As far as I’m aware, slowfall by holding the jump button is present as far back as SMB1 on the NES (although almost imperceptibly). SMW is definitely waaaaay better than SMB1, lost levels and doki doki panic/SMB2 but it’s still not responsive enough for my modern sensibilities :( As I say, it has so much going for it but the character controller at the core of all the gameplay I just can’t get along with :/
Neat, nice to hear that it’s not reeeeaally combat focused. I’m down for combat but from a game like that it’s just not what I’m there for.
I’ve just noticed, is your display picture Hornet holding a trans flag? That’s awesome
It is! Got it commissioned. Artist’s twitter is in my bio :)
Oh no, tw*tter <img alt="bee peek emoji" src="https://beehaw.org/emoji/blobbee_peek.png">
Mega Man X on the SNES is an amazing trilogy and still holds up. Moving on, X4 and X5 are great to play as well, X6 and beyond can be avoided.
Mega Man Legends 1 and 2 (PSX) are interesting games, a mix of action platforming and light RPG elements, but I have deep nostalgia and still enjoy the games, so you may find them very archaic. Playing the first game, the first thing you should do is change controls so turning around is left/right and L1/R1 strafe.
If you haven’t tried them yet, Donkey Kong Country 1, 2 and 3 are well worth playing, but the games can be unforgiving, especially in later levels. While there’s no coyote time, doing a forward attack off a ledge will allow you to jump once anytime during the fall. It’s very clearly a deliberate feature, as some level skips can only be accessed with that trick.
Castlevania Symphony of the Night on the PSX, if you haven’t played yet, you definitely should. This motherfucker stood the test of time with gold marks.
I know you asked to avoid final fantasy-esque titles, but Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX) is worth checking out. If the battle system, or the party management/job system, don’t pique your interest (things that you should get a feel within the first 20-30 minutes), then it’s not for you, no problem.
Tekken 3 on the PSX is probably the best 3D fighting game on the console. Graphically ancient by today’s standards, but it still has its charm. Later games got better with more characters and everything, but that game has the normal arcade mode, a “volley” mode and a beat-em’ up mode.
Bomberman games are their own category. The SNES ones are some of the best, but playing them all in sequence will get really tiresome, as the formula doesn’t change. Bomberman World on PSX can be completely avoided, it sucks.
I’ve been hesitant of the mega man games for some reason, I’ll check em out!
DKC I have never tried, but it sounds like there could be some fun movement
I definitely need to try castlevania sotn - thanks for the reminder
FFT I’ll give a go just because your other recommendations have been on point :P
Tekken 3 (and Tekken Tag Tournament) was fucking awesome, loved playing that. I spent so much of my pocket money on tekken games at the arcade growing up.
I have played some of the bombermans(bombermen?), it’s a neat concept but it gets stale very fast for me.
Thank you!
I can understand that hesitancy for the NES games. If you never played anything like them, they can feel unfair or too hard. A lot of people love Mega Man 2, but my personal favorite of the NES era is 6, which could be a decent entry point if you ever decide to venture that way. X improves everything and the first is my personal favorite as well (it easily has the best music of the 3, too).
Sweet, I’m no stranger to difficult gaming so hopefully I won’t bounce off
FF Tactics on PS1 is great. Playing my roommate’s copy was what led me to buy FF Tactics Advance, which is even better, I think.
It took me a number of attempts before FFTA grew on me. I’m not too fond of race-locked classes there, or the judges, but the progression felt fun.
Worth noting: Ogre Battle (Tactics Ogre) was released for SNES (then re-released more than Skyrim) and is basically FFT’s father. FFTA’s sprites come straight from TO.
Oh, nice. I’ll check that out
Thief: The Dark Project and Thief 2: The Metal Age (PC, 1998/2000). (the second game is essentially just more of the first, but more refined)
Still the best stealth games to date if that’s your cup of tea, and holds up excellently.
Huh, I’ll see if they’re available anywhere. I’ve heard excellent things about the thief games but for some reason never taken them on.
The Thief games are all available on GOG, probably Steam, too, but I prefer GOG.
Always a fan of DRM-free :)
Do note that in your post you mentioned things that have aged well, and while I think it’s fine, they can feel a bit clunky, especially in comparison to some of the games heavily influenced by them (e.g. Dishonored, among others).
Edit: I’m mostly referring to direct melee combat here, and not the rest of the game. Truth is, you probably won’t find yourself using it much against humans, but the sword can feel a bit dated against some of the nonhuman creatures. And now that I think about it, Dishonored’s swordplay isn’t exactly super fluid either unless you’re countering and parrying.
You might want to add some mods just to touch some things up.
Also, while the second game is my favourite, don’t sleep on the third, especially if you like horror because one of the later levels is fucking incredible. I say all of this as someone who ordinarily hates supernatural-type horror.
And the third game also expands on the lore, which I like.
All of them are available on GOG and Steam.
Similar to Thief, the original Deus Ex is a great game which might also show its age a bit, but I think stands the test of time for the most part.
I’ll look into mods, thank you for the recommendation :)
I do love having GOG versions available.
I remember playing the original Deus Ex and I think my mum forced me to stop playing because it was too violent or some such nonsense (this being the same mother that had me playing Oddworld while I sat on her lap at the ripe old age of like 5. A game that routinely features people and monsters being blown/crushed/ground/shot/shredded/chewed to giblets). I may have to look this up again.
The main patch you’ll want is TFix/T2Fix, posted on TTLG Forums. I think it comes prepatched from GOG, on Steam you’ll have to patch it yourself.
@comicallycluttered@beehaw.org what do you mean by very clunky? I don’t think they are at all. Except maybe the default control scheme which is pretty bad today, but you can rebind everything (or use my bind file, works for both games)
Maybe “very” was too strong a word, but I mainly meant the melee combat.
Although to be honest, other than the blackjack, people shouldn’t really be using melee much, so it’s not that much of a problem.
It’s mostly when the zombie dudes come into play that the sword combat can feel dated if you take them on directly.
Thanks for the advice :3
No prob. The first game actually has some fantastic mods and also a ton of incredibly well-crafted fan-made levels.
You might want a few tiny mods for Deus Ex as well, though it doesn’t really require much.
Kind of funny that it was “too violent” because you can go through most of the game without even killing anyone. It’s my preferred playstyle, just sleep darts and stealth stuff.
Actually, you’ll have a bit of a rough time if you go in guns ablaze. A lot of people used to shooters end up being obliterated on the first level when they initially play it, which is what happened to me when I first played it on release. Came back to it years later after I’d discovered Thief and suddenly felt right at home.
Edit: Oh, and it’s also available on GOG. Most of the earlier immersive sims (Thief, Deus Ex, System Shock, Ultima, Arx Fatalis, etc.) are.
Awesome to hear
And yeah, like I was quite young so the idea of having weapons and not using them probably went a bit over my head at the time so it ended up being violent. I was also coming off of the back of games like Duke Nukem 3d and DOOM (which I somehow was not discouraged from playing - go figure)
Both excellent games, and better than Thief 3, Thief 2014, and Dishonored.
Edit: wrong year for the latest Thief game
I think you meant 2014, unless there’s something I missed from last year.
Yep, that’s the one. I misremembered the year. Maybe I got it in 2023, I dunno.
Huh, confusing last year for a decade ago is unusual
post-covid time experience is wild
Not really, when you don’t buy games when they come out. A lot of mine are freebies, and I never buy anything that isn’t a deep discount (especially from AAA studios), which means “new” for me is often several years old already.
I know you want to avoid Final Fantasy style games, but both Chrono Trigger and FF Tactics Advance are unique takes on JRPGs (you’re open to Earthbound, after all). They are also timeless, IMO, and stand up against modern titles.
Kirby’s Adventure is great all around. Has saves, interesting gameplay, tight controls, excellent music, secondary secret objectives, and it’s just goddamn adorable. It’s also better than Kirby Superstar, IMO, but do try both.
There’s a remake of Kirby’s adventure for the GBA that will probably feel a bit better.
Snazzy I’ll probably go for that one then. Many thanks
Kirby’s Adventure just feels the best to control. I don’t like the way they changed how powers work in Superstar, and I think the variety, controls, and level design aren’t as good. Sometimes, more isn’t always better.
FFTA is the best in the series, but it’s also the most unique story. FFT is still the usual “fantasy” universe you’re familiar with, but there’s an interesting element of isekai in FFTA.
Battletoads is hard, but not impossible. Everyone remembers the third level with the bikes being a pita, but I did it as a kid. Tip: towards the end, there’s a part where walls will come at you faster and faster, but if you try to stick to the middle and move just enough out of the way, you can weave back and forth. Don’t overcorrect; light touch. If you get really good, there’s even a secret in that part that lets you skip several levels. Look for a sparkle!
Little Nemo is based on a comic, and it’s a really unique puzzle/action platformer. I haven’t played anything quite like it, but it was one of the first NES games I owned.
Mega Man 2 unequivocally has some of the best chiptunes in any game. There’s a reason there’s so many remixes on OC Remix just from that game.
Starfox 64 is the original SNES Starfox but with better graphics, gameplay, and story. There’s also multiple endings…
Hope you have fun!
Someone else mentioned that they liked the GBA remake of Adventure more - would you say it’s worth going that route or sticking to the OG?
I suppose I’ll have a look at FFT and FFTA both and see what’s up.
Ah I remember how painfully unforgiving those old side scrolling games could be, I’ll find my way through battletoads :D
Definitely excited to try Little Nemo, it’s one of the few recommendations people have posted that I genuinely just have never heard of
Man I have always enjoyed when I heard Mega Man soundtrack pop up in other places, the tunes are sublime. Just never played the actual games the music is from lol.
Looking forward to Starfox 64 it sounds like a good one!
The GBA port is…okay. It has some of the “improvements” that the SNES got, and the balance just feels off, to me. I would say that it still controls better than the SNES version, however.
Give them all a try, though. Maybe the NES version will feel lacking to you and you’ll love the SNES ones!
Those games are hard as fuck. The train stage in Little Nemo is a nightmare (pun totally intended)
I remember the moment I figured out you can jump forward to clear some of those spikes.
If I weren’t currently at work and would have time to think about the answer, I could probably come up with more titles, but those are the top 2 that come to mind, if I ignore cRPGs (at least that’s how I read your “avoiding final fantasy-esque” requirement):
Settlers 2: It’s new enough to still look decent by today’s standards, and has amazing game design. Available at GoG.
Star Control 2: One of the best early open world games. The graphics have definitely aged by today’s standard, but the humour hasn’t. Or maybe it has, but just a bit. Available for free and open source.
My relationship with cRPGs is weird. I adore disco elysium and citizen sleeper, two of my favourite games. I enjoyed the first ~30 hours of Divinity Original Sin 2 before I just got uber fatigued on how much the game got in the way of the characters for me. Final Fantasy (style) games i just get so exhausted by all the faffing around with party composition and stats and junctions and equipment and skills and whatever the fuck else. What I live for in my tabletop experiences is high storytelling and roleplay, where I can do a little fooling around with fun combat builds and whatnot without getting too bogged down, and my videogaming preferences mirror that.
I guess what I’m saying is that a crpg with a greater focus on the RP and less on the G really fits my tastes, so earthbound is a natural fit.
Settlers and star control both look somewhat neat! I’ll have a look, many thanks.
Older JRPGs in particular are definitely a bit of an acquired taste. There are a lot of games that I love dearly but have a hard time recommending to anyone who didn't grow up on that style of game.
That said, Chrono Trigger is the one that really stands the test of time and I think is the best entry point into the classics. Or just try some more modern games, the genre has evolved considerably.
Earthbound is probably the one I'd put next after CT, but it's a bit of a slow burn that's honestly carried by its writing. Mother 3 raises the bar considerably, but you gotta play EB before M3.
Yeah, I’ve had such a love/hate experience with JRPGs. When the game gets out of the way and lets me just explore the world and its characters I fall in love. And then the gameplay comes back and I have to get out my spreadsheets and shit and I just fall asleep. CT comes highly recommended so I’m looking forward to giving that a go alongside EB and M3. I have Sea of Stars on my backlog which is apparently a spiritual successor to CT so that’ll probably follow along nicely.
Oh, and just in the moment I hit send, I remembered another gem from the olden times:
Unreal World: Basically the survival game. 99% of today’s survival games are just a pale shadow of this. I mean, nowadays there are even “survival” games without hunger mechanics or proper simulation of wounds… No, this is not one of those easy mode survival games. This is Fantasy Finland, and it’s the Fantasy Iron Age. Available for free or, if you want updates faster, also for money on Steam.
Oh neat, I’ll have to check this out. I’m not into the whole Open World Survival Crafting pandemic that has taken root but if this is like the best of the best of survival games then it should be fun!
You have tons of great game suggestions here so i’m not gonna suggest another game. I’m just going to recommend RetroAchievements as a way to add a little meta-progression fun to your retro journey, if you aren’t using them already. They integrate into various popular emulators (RetroArch especially), and it’s fun to be playing Super Mario World and get a little extra recognition for beating a boss.
I am very prone to completionism so I have intentionally avoided RetroAchievements as I didn’t want to get bogged down chasing them :P But I do very much appreciate the extra recco!!
extremely fair! I just broke a 2-month fever with Pokemon Pinball bc I became obsessed with getting the “beaten” marker on RA. I think I was still having fun up to the end? but not totally clear. So I get it. lol
Well done for persevering and fingers crossed you don’t get a fever like that any time soon again :P
Ace Combat (PS2): Primarily Ace Combat 4, I’d say as it’s shorter but still great. If you like the gameplay then you’ll need to play 5 and Zero.
Oh neat I’ll add those too, seems like a little fun!
Oh, 2 and 3 are also great on the PSX. Way more missiles than needed for any mission, but the flight controls are amazing
Arcade:
NES:
SNES:
N64:
Gamecube:
Wii:
GBC:
GBA:
Romhacks:
Holy Shit there’s more. I am going to definitely take these recommendations to heart.
I’ve seen footage of the celeste smb1 hack and it’s fucking incredible and I’d love to play that. Will definitely be checking it out.
I miiiiight have had an existing list sitting around to just paste here.
I’m a little ways in to Celeste Mario’s Zap & Dash and its just as good as I had hoped. It makes me wish we got a metroidvania Celeste game from exok (maybe Earthblade will fill that niche)
@missingno@fedia.io I have finished the “main” game content of zap n dash with (I think) all moons, but DAMN this post-game content is HARD. Definitely b-sides/c-sides/farewell vibes
Holy recommendations batman! Definitely glad to see a lot of the same games recommended here, makes me feel like they’re on the right track. Fire 'n Ice seems interesting, and I hadn’t heard of it before. Also added a new word to my vocabulary in the form of “kusoge”. Thank you!
Metal Gear Solid is one of my favorite games of all time, followed closely by 2 and 3. It really is an incredibly timeless piece of art in my opinion, just filled to the brim with incredible moments.
Sons of Liberty was my first experience of the MGS series and I really enjoyed it. Absolutely off the wall parody of military games in the absolute best way.
If you have any interest at all in Souls-likes and want to see where the genre really started, consider Blade of Darkness. An updated version is available on GOG with modern resolution support and slightly improved controls (still clunky as hell in comparison to newer games, though).
Oh fancy, I’ll add it to the list. Thank you!
Don’t know if it’d be something worth while, but if you’re looking for a game to just pass the time, Devil Dice (or XI in Japan I think) for PSx. Trailer linked is highest quality I could find.
That looks like a rad party game!
I mostly play it for the single player mode, but I assume it’s a lot more fun with friends.
The Castlevania games have been organized into a couple of collections that are very inexpensive, and I would HIGHLY recommend those. They’re on PC and Switch.
I replay Castlevania 1 and 3 at least once a year.