Zorin OS 17 Has Arrived
(blog.zorin.com)
from leo@lemmy.linuxuserspace.show to linux@lemmy.ml on 20 Dec 2023 18:17
https://lemmy.linuxuserspace.show/post/91289
from leo@lemmy.linuxuserspace.show to linux@lemmy.ml on 20 Dec 2023 18:17
https://lemmy.linuxuserspace.show/post/91289
threaded - newest
Not much of a progress this time.
Still waiting for zorin grid.
Is it me or does most of this look like Gnome? đ¤
It is Gnome.
Well I guess that explains it đ
We need fewer distros and more focus on things that matter.
I disagree. Each distro is a user of a thousand different open source systems. When a distro developer integrates gnome, systemd, bluez, or whatever other system theyâre finding, reporting, and possibly fixing bugs that end users might miss. Other than arch users, who else is compiling these things from scratch and really digging into the documentation?
Us weird debian testing users.
Gentoo users? Void users?
Theyâd still be doing that.
I think a unified package manager/app store model that is vetted by all contributing distros would go a long way. SteamOS/Steam deck is bringing gamers to linux and thatâs great. But it would be easier to bring on a lot more desktop users if there was an app store that every distro could visit. Flatpak is close, snaps however I think are too polarizing.
I use fedora silverblue. Iâd like to switch to suse microos but the difference is so small that itâs probably not worth it to switch. (Just a guesstimate, silverblue has some goodies afterall with the whole image centric os)
Probably, itâs almost the same for vanillaos. Because everything is within distrobox and flatpak, I do not work with the native package manager anymore (almost, there are exceptions because of the DE).
If I would switch to microos, I, as an enduser, wouldnât notice too much a real difference.
People should stop making new distros for what should be a post install script. But, things are fucking complicated and thatâs why we need the forks and new distros.
.
Thx for the elaboration. Thatâs what I roughly meant with âimage centric osâ.
Opensuse aeon encourages you to use flatpak. The first thing it does right after installation is to install apps from flathub, including firefox (unlike silverblue).
An example from the doc
Especially the following
Usually, you do not rollback, you do not go back to an older system. On both systems, you use distrobox and flatpak. I donât see much of a difference as an end user.
.
Fedora has images which you can create yourself as an enduser which means a corporation with thousands of computers can create their own image. They donât have to create a new distro. Thatâs not possible with suse but I donât know if thatâs so important since I do not administer such things. I as an enduser do not care about the underlying system, I donât tinker with it, I rarely touch it. Thatâs the case for both distros. I may install a vpn or so.
If you want to tinker with your system, neither fedora nor suse are good for that, using arch is the way to go.
Why is fedora better for advanced users?
.
And why?
.
I just asked because you stated that itâs better for advanced users and I wondered why because I donât see it yet
https://xkcd.com/927/
Youâre 100% right that this is a danger of attempting to consolidate
despite my xkdc smartassedness I would love to see something that made an easy to do thing like this for linux https://portableapps.com/ there are some close things but not quite so easy.
you are free to not make distros
Damn, those silly volunteers are doing the wrong things in their free time!
Youâre right. I will start a new distro that focuses on the the things that matter.
Man, I laughed so hard at this one
Does anyone use this? Iâve yet to find a defining feature list of why anyone should use it aside from cosmetic differences. Does it even have a defining feature set?
It seems ok, guess I should try the free version before making judgements, realized the pro is ONLY $50 and completely optional. Sorry
at minimum Seems they charge a shitton for âbonusâ software like theyâre a wannabe windows or some fuckin shit. Avoid this if you have any respect for yourself or open source softwareLinux people donât pay, they donate.
This does feel like a donation. Iâm gonna try at some point
well I donât use Foss I use Proton đ
Iâm an idiot
Iâm sorry
.
It doesnât go into much detail but it says pro includes blender and planify? Does any of that $50 go back to the apps, I wonder?
The pro version is just official support service from the company. Thatâs how FOSS has always been monetized, no?
Seems like a good deal for people completely unfamiliar with Linux who just want a cheap OS and help to keep it running.
I use the free version. its fine. if you have to have it look like a mac then yeah you can pay or configure it yourself like you would with any linux.
If you had respect for open source software, youâd be willing to pay for it
$2,000 for autocad? Misunderstood what the site was saying
Doesnât sound like the kind of thing a linux distro should be selling. When was the last time Debian tried to get you to spend thousands of dollars on it??They are just showing you that you donât need to spend $2000 on Autocad and other listed software, because Zorin has all these open source tools bundled in it.
Though tbh replacing Autocad or office365 with FOSS alternatives are bold claims because these alternatives just arenât viable in a commercial environment.
Guess i misunderstood?
Personally, I would say Richard Stallman has respect for open source software: www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.
Having respect for free (as in âlibreâ) software means caring if the software can sustain its own development, and not just caring if you get it free (as in âgratisâ). Itâs not always viable to support a project on donations and free time the way GNU is. xkcd.com/2347/
Itâs just support, for people that can afford it or want it. The bonus software is all free or foss, the rest are wallpapers or other gnome themes that can be get otherwise
Tbh I see it as âprettier linux mintâ. Good distro for beginners but nothing more
exactly!
I use it. Itâs great. Iâve tried Linux many times over the past decade but it never stuck until Zorin. If youâre coming from Windows itâs a very friendly (and polished) way of being welcomed to Linux while also showing off Linuxâs strengths, things that are often hidden to the user unless they want to explore the terminal.
For Mac users who are Linux-curious I would recommend Ubuntu because itâs much similar, whereas Zorin seems clearly designed with people who liked Windows 10 but not Windows 11.
If you want something like Mac, use elementary os.
Kinda. Iâm using Elementary OS right now, and I think of it more like a Chromebook⌠with more options to expand it.
I disagree: elementary is quite limited with really basic desktop features out of the box, limited personalization, weird interface decisions with some ugly panels, and pretty behind on updates, relying heavily on their own walled gard-
You know what? Youâre right.
đ
yes and I love it
oh yeah. its an out of the box for folks (like myself) who like that. Lots of apps preinstalled including play on linux. So I can install and start using without adding any additional software. Its not the only oob distro but combining that with the look feel emulation is great and I have never seen an oob that sets up wine so well to use immediately. So its a bit like a combo of a gaming distro with oob and then the lookNfeel thing.
No, but I used this back when I was a little penguin and I had to âseeâ something working on Linux.
I mean, you literally described 99,999% of distros tbf.
Sure, but thatâs what Iâm asking about. Why should people try this one?
Tbh I used it few months ago and itâs a pretty decent noob distro but I had some annoying graphical issues caused by snaps, which zorin use(d?) even by default so I canât recommend it because of that. It also doesnât allow much customization but thatâs GNOME for you.
spoiler
Also, this is just a me thing and not the distroâs fault, but I couldnât stand having Zs everywhere even if it is a pure coincidence and I actually know the volunteers stand with Ukraine.
Itâs a good distro for those who want an easy introduction to Linux, I just think Linux Mint or Pop_OS are better, but thereâs many who use it and swear by it.
A better question might be why shouldnât they? Iâm not being pedantic (at least not intentionally) but if their defining characteristic is that theyâre nothing special, just a simple Linux distro that does the basic shit easily enough and looks nice - that has major appeal to people unfamiliar with Linux looking to leave other OSâs behind. The vast majority of people that use an OS really have very little idea how it works or why. They just want some basic level of understanding and control over it.
Letâs use Ubuntu for comparison.
Zorin adds only the following value:
When people see Windows, they expect Windows. Installers, package managers, peripherals like printers, etc. are different from Windows. Pretending to be Windows makes people feel at ease for a moment at the expense of fundamentally misunderstanding what operating system their computer runs on, and itâll trip them up eventually, probably sooner rather than later.
See macOS: It looks and feels different. People donât mistake macOS for Windows. People who use Windows donât expect macOS to behave like Windows, and vice-versa. But hey, letâs make macOS look and feel like Windows at first glance. Why canât I run that .exe? What do you mean, I must use an app store? What is HDCP, and why does it prevent me from connecting this laptop to the projector?
For iOS thatâd be questions like: Where is the Play Store? Why canât I install that (Android-only) app? I think you get my point.
This is one of the reasons why branding exists. Yet many Linux distros would like to believe they can replicate the Windows experience through a miracle, and fool themselves into thinking thatâs a good thing for Linux newcomers. Itâs especially bad for people who donât know they use Linux, like when they use computers at the office, library, etc. with a distro like Zorin.
I mean, most DEs copy Windows (KDE does, Cinnamon does, etc).
Taskbar along the bottom that shows opened programs
Start button that opens a small start menu in the bottom left
Clock in the bottom right
System tray in the bottom right
Frequently have menu bars at the top of apps
Minimise, maximise, close at the top right of each app
etc
So tbh it seems harsh to criticise Zorin for copying Windows when it seems, with the exception of Gnome, that all actual up to date DEs have copied Windows. And if they went with vanilla Gnome theyâd not really be offering anything different at all.
Definitely count these other DEs into my criticism. Theyâre part of the problem.
Zorin was, at least a few years ago, tailored to be easy to adapt to for people switching from Windows. This new version looks beautiful, Iâm going to take it for a spin!
Xrdp server enabled with a toggle instead of messing with the terminal for 1 hour seems unique
Thatâs not exclusive to Zorin however, thatâs just a Gnome 42 feature (unless the base gnome implementation is the one youâre referring to that needs configuring in the terminal).
Ah. The way they wrote that seemed an exclusiveâŚ
Nice for gnome, so, when I wanted to set xrdp on debian a couple years ago I cried and almost gave up.
Iâve got it on my fiancĂŠes laptop. She doesnât use it very often though. Itâs a decent enough experience
This looks beautiful, congrats to Zorin contributors!
All the shit I hate about windows packed into a Linux environment⌠I guess maybe it will help Windows users switch over?
such as?
From the screenshot, an ugly as fuck theme and a useless start menu.
I suppose it the menu would probably actually be functional in Linux and not just a way for them to spam Bing.
The moment Linux users go from âinstall Linux to get off Microsoft productsâ to âWAHHHHH WHY DONT YOU LIKE MY LAYOUT BETTER :((((((â you lose all credibility.
Maybe. And hear me out here. Maybe your desktop layout and theme is a fucking OPINION and no one else has to agree that itâs the âbestâ layout??? Fucking crazy, I know.
If it makes them more comfortable, all the power to them. But there are far better window managers and desktops environments out there both in terms of look and functionality.
Itâs still a huge upgrade from actually using Windows 11, and maybe once they dip their toes in theyâll ditch this eyesore of a layout next.
Not necessarily, it depends on the demographic of the user. I highly doubt that my grandparents would decide to switch this âeyesore of a layoutâ.
I agree that some will switch, but definitely not everyone.
Some people are way too complacent with things being handed to them, rather than seeking out better alternatives that match what they really want. Though I suppose some people actuallyike that design.
What works for you wonât work for someone else. The Windows design works just fine for some and thatâs okay. Not everyone is trying to be a super power user
So let me get this straight, they have a windows look by default, but using GNOME for whatever reason, then they give you the option to switch to something more vanilla GNOME but disable all of the gestures and workspaces, and then they advertise it like they invented gestures when they decide to stop disabling all of them
whats bad with gnome
Nothing, I use gnome, but if you want a windows look by default then plasma is made for that
So basically Ubuntu-based GNOME-skin OS, advertising GNOMEâs new features as their own?
Yeah, I donât get it either. Like 95% of the stuff they promote is already out there in Fedora for a long time. It isnât anything special to Zorin.
Distributions nowadays are defined by their desktop bling :(
It used to be that you could just install whatever desktop you fancied on pretty much any distro.
I mean you still can
Can you install MacOS by Zorin⢠on something else? I suppose thereâs a source repository somewhere and you can always compile it if you really want itâŚ
Thereâs a gnome extension (ArcMenu) thatâs inspired by Zorin thatâs simply a better and more customizable version of all of zorinâs desktop themes (and more). You can get it on any Linux
More people should start charging for their work and actually staffing security. I like zorin just for the fact that I have expectations for items I pay for where things that are free I canât really hold accountable.
I know thatâs antiFOSS but Iâm somewhere in the middle lately. I want to pay for quality but still be able to tinker with it.
A lot of free and open source products are in fact funded through grants or corpates
What do you mean? Payment isnât anti-FOSS at all, itâs just a lot harder to make money when the source is libre.
Iâm glad you think so. I remember Richard stallman banging on a bongo singing that charging for software is greed.
I just want people to have enough incentives for their time that things are safe and the workers paid properly. I wish more open source devs got paid.
Thatâs not exactly anti-FOSS, to my understanding, since the âfreeâ part refers to freedom. As long as after you pay you are free to use the software as you want and get access to the source code, I think it might still count as FOSS? And then, of course, thereâs the option of paid support on free (of charge) software, though I think recent events might suggest thatâs not really sustainable.
mfw when entire distros are advertising UI features of gnome that came standard on every DE like 15+ years ago, including gnome.
Seriously, Compiz is from 2006.
Also I find their Zorin OS Pro offer a bit scummy. Now the themes do look nice, but few would spend 50$ for a few themes. So they advertise having 5000$ worth of professional creative alternatives bundled. In screenshots youâll then see Kdenlive, Blender and Inkscape. I donât know what to think about the fact they want 50$ for bundling a few themes and free software. If they had just kept the stupid 5000$ part out I would have been fine with it, professional support can be great for people switching over from windows, but this seems a bit scummy to me.
.