linux: Goodbye from a Linux community volunteer (lore.kernel.org)
from ahriboy@lemmygrad.ml to linux@lemmy.ml on 24 Oct 11:01
https://lemmygrad.ml/post/6042287

#linux

threaded - newest

mitexleo@buddyverse.one on 24 Oct 11:38 next collapse

🙂

JustMarkov@lemmy.ml on 24 Oct 11:44 next collapse

This is all very sad.

originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com on 24 Oct 11:52 next collapse

thats a lot of words for contributing for a single year, only half of which was 'volunteer'

Strit@lemmy.linuxuserspace.show on 24 Oct 12:27 next collapse

I think he wrote that he had been contributing for about 7 or 8 years, and only the last one was as a volunteer.

originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com on 24 Oct 12:34 collapse

ahhh, this is the line i was referring to.. maybe i misunderstood

my work for the community has been purely volunteer for more than
a year now (and less than half of it had been payable before that).

ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org on 24 Oct 13:31 next collapse

thats a lot of words for contributing for a single year, only half of which was ‘volunteer’

How long have you been contributing?

originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com on 24 Oct 13:34 collapse

47

ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org on 24 Oct 13:36 collapse

That’s remarkable considering Linux is only 33 years old.

originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com on 24 Oct 13:53 collapse

amazing right

helenslunch@feddit.nl on 24 Oct 14:16 collapse

A little bit statics of my kernel-work at the end:

Signed-off patches: 518 Reviewed and Acked patches: 253 Tested patches: 80

You might say not the greatest achievement for seven years comparing to some other developers. Perhaps. But I meant each of these tags, be sure.

lemmyseizethemeans@lemmygrad.ml on 24 Oct 12:02 next collapse

Yeah it’s cutting off the nose to spite the face. Stupid move by the kernel admins. If you’re gonna start banning people from contributitg because of shut their government does, then the entire US and Israeli population of Linux devs should be dropped.

wewbull@feddit.uk on 24 Oct 12:27 collapse

The cold war is reborn and this time it’s warmer. Do people not understand that before 30 years ago no communication occured with countries behind the iron curtain. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine put us on a path back to those kind of relations.

lemmyseizethemeans@lemmygrad.ml on 24 Oct 22:05 collapse

The new cold war started long before Russia invaded. Google Victoria Newlands involvement in the maidan coup that triggered it

Naw fam this is just stupid. We need global collaboration that’s what open source is all about.

wewbull@feddit.uk on 25 Oct 08:29 collapse

Stupid or not, it is the state of the world. It’s not down to Linus to do anything but live and work within the situation constructed by the governments of nation states.

SinJab0n@mujico.org on 24 Oct 12:46 next collapse

but the key words are “sanctions”, “sorry”, “nothing I can do”

It seems like it has more to do with the us goverment, still, this is some bs level i havent seen in a while.

Not only they were banned, they removed them from the credits! this is bs.

technocat@lemm.ee on 24 Oct 12:48 next collapse

www.phoronix.com/
/Linus-Torvalds-Russian-Devs

UPDATE: When asked whether Linus Torvalds was under any sort of NDA around this, he responded:

“No, but I’m not a lawyer, so I’m not going to go into the details that I - and other maintainers - were told by lawyers.

I’m also not going to start discussing legal issues with random internet people who I seriously suspect are paid actors and/or have been riled up by them.”

untoasted@toast.ooo on 24 Oct 22:59 collapse

Linus was always really, really stupid politically. It’s truly amazing he’s outlived the Linux foundation.

ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org on 24 Oct 13:20 next collapse

Two comments about this:

  • It is my firm belief that 99% of the population of any country ruled by a dictator are the primary victims of that dictator, don’t condone what their rulers do, have done nothing wrong and are just trying to be good people in unfavorable circumstances.

    The Russians are no different and it isn’t fair to impose on Russian individuals of obvious good will the treatment governments apply to the Russian government, because the Russian government and the Russian people are two very different things.

  • Linus said in this interview:

    I’m Finnish. Did you think I’d be supporting Russian aggression?

    and here I’m telling you this: Linus acts like a dipshit.

    I know the Finns very, VERY well, and while they’re generally great people, when it comes to Russia and Russians, they have epidermic reactions of totally unreasonable proportions.

    I understand where they’re coming from and why they react like that, but Russia is to the Finnish people what peanuts are to someone with a peanut allergy: the reaction is totally disproportionate and with zero nuances.

    Don’t ever try to argue with a Finn that a Russian person can be good, and that Putin is also their enemy: the Finn will shut down and stop talking to you - meaning, in their culture, that you can politely go fuck yourself.

    And that’s what we’re witnessing here with Linus: however many years he’s lived in California, he still hasn’t shed that part of his upbringing, and quite frankly, shame on him.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 24 Oct 21:12 next collapse

Finland were Nazi collaborators and aligned with the Axis. After the Soviets let them do their own thing, they have been trying to create new national myths of how actually they were good people that didn’t send thousands of Jews to their deaths. This kind of apologia manifests as Russophobia and the various ahistorical recuperations of WWII omnipresent in Western media.

It is like asking a racist Southerner about the Confederacy. You will hear lost cause apologia. Now imagine if they were their own country writing their own history books and media putsches. Now imagine their narrative was slotted into the historical revisionism of the strongest superpower. That is how you get such racist Finns.

dessalines@lemmy.ml on 24 Oct 22:19 next collapse

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/2bb6a1c9-84e8-493c-b48a-6145ed59e4f2.jpeg">

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 24 Oct 22:29 next collapse

Weird meme since Finland and Finns are very open about who Finland sided with and it’s very commonly talked about too. If anything it should rather be that we’re too nonchalant about it rather than trying to hide it somehow.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 24 Oct 23:01 collapse

lmao

dessalines@lemmy.ml on 24 Oct 23:57 collapse

Another great one is “larry thorne”, aka Lauri Törni, a finnish nazi (buried with the highest honors in USA’s Arlington cemetary btw) who fought against communists and lost 3 times (twice against the USSR, then took an L in Vietnam).

This wiki sidebar sure is one

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/f0eda6d3-1781-41b0-9301-1c185173f040.jpeg">

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 00:40 collapse

Amazing!

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 24 Oct 22:37 collapse

they were good people that didn’t send thousands of Jews to their deaths

I’m not sure how you’ve counted it but the number for those who were given to the Germans was eight refugees and “some tens” of (Soviet) PoWs. A pretty far cry from the “thousands” you mentioned, but as I said, I’m not sure what you are counting.

For a long time the war and stuff like this was a sore point and the heroic myth overruled everything but since at least for a decade this particular topic has got a lot of public discourse. The heroic myth still lives on though, even if it is milder than it used to be.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 24 Oct 23:02 collapse

I’m not sure how you’ve counted it but the number for those who were given to the Germans was eight refugees and “some tens” of (Soviet) PoWs.

That is the official ahistorical line. Actual historical work accounts for thousands.

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 24 Oct 23:37 collapse

Can you share some of these works?

E: TL;DR cited works didn’t actually claim “thousands” but “approximately 100”. With two zeroes.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 00:40 collapse

For a book, “Finland’s Holocaust: Silences of History” by Muir and Worthen provides decent context. For more specifics, the pioneering work of Elina Sana, particularly Luovutetut, should provide the later basis. The thing to focus on is how the intentional ignorance of what her work revealed was maintained for decades by a “if nobody looks or talks about it, Nobody will know” approach to Finland, whose whitewashed participation as a Nazi ally had been fairly thorough. Subsequent critics picked at the margins but her overall thesis and work holds up.

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 25 Oct 03:28 collapse

I have the book here in front of me and I think this is the part your’e thinking. From first book, talking about your second source:

Finland’s Holocaust: Silences of History, page 151.

Challenging the official figure of eight Jewish refugees handed over to the German authorities, Sana claimed that during the German–Finnish alliance, the Continuation War (1941–44), Finland extradited almost 3,000 civilians and POWs, among them approximately 100 Jews.

<img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/38116d32-fb86-4fbd-ac69-fd40853b8d06.png">

How you could turn that to thousands of handed over Jews, I don’t know. If some other part brings it up tenfold then I didn’t see it with a quick glance. I think you might’ve misread or misremembered that part since nowadays that doesn’t challenge what I said with “I’m not sure how you’ve counted it but the number for Jews who were given to the Germans was eight refugees and “some tens” of (Soviet) PoWs.” Some upper estimates got “up to a hundred” based on just the last names, but usually the number I’ve seen is below that since just the names can be very uncertain in Russian context.

Still horrible, no question about that, but I originally came to correct was this:

they were good people that didn’t send thousands of Jews to their deaths

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 03:32 collapse

You’ve gotta read both books

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 25 Oct 03:48 collapse

I am looking at both but I honestly think you just made a mistake and thought the total number of extraditions was all Jews when the claim is just that “approximately 100” were.

If there’s part on either that goes against the quote shown, that jumps up the number tenfold (or more), I’d be happy to see it. But neither book nor any public discourse or (academic) reviews of the books seem to talk about anything but what I’ve quoted here. If the claim was thousands of Jewish victims and not “approximately 100”, from what I could find, everyone but you have read it differently or missed that part. And that would be really significant with how big of a disconnect there has been.

I think you’ve just misread or misremembered that part


TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 03:57 collapse

Like I said, read both books

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 25 Oct 04:01 collapse

I’m sorry but they are just not saying what you thought they were. Thousands of extradited people yes, thousands of Jews no. If you have quotes to share or something then please do, because now it just seems like there’s been a mistake on your part.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 05:45 collapse

Instead of guessing incorrectly, you could read the materials I offered. I don’t know why you believe your lazy guesswork is better than my reading.

I will give you one hint but to be honest at this point it is being too nice: POWs.

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 25 Oct 06:14 collapse

It can be hard to admit to having been wrong, even when it’s an understandable mistake like this, but literally no one else read the books you mentioned and came away with thinking it was thousands of Jews. First book clearly says (citing the second) it was “approximately 100”. Thousands would be at least ten times that.

You are trying to convince me that these books have a ten times bigger number than what everyone else seems to think they said (including the author of the first book), but you can’t give any quotations, you can’t give anything concrete other than “it’s there trust me bro”.

I doubt anyone is buying what you are selling. Now would be a good time to either admit to the mistake or put money where your mouth is and actually cite the works like I have.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 06:29 collapse

I did cite works. You have decided that your guessing based on Googling is better than reading the books cited. I cannot fix your laziness. You asked for things to read and I provided them. I cannot, unfortunately, make you read them instead of bullshitting.

Sana estimated 500 from a single deportation, by the way.

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 25 Oct 06:41 collapse

I don’t think I’m better than the books you cited. I trust those books. You mentioned two books who both directly contradict you by saying the number was “approximately 100”. Sana says out of the around 3000 people, “at least 74 were Jews”. You mistook the total number of handed over POWs for the number of handed over Jews.

If you think it gives a different number, one that nobody else seems to think is included in those books, please be so kind as to show where in either book.

Sana estimated 500 from a single deportation, by the way.

She did, but they are not talking about Jews specifically but all the people handed over. Like I’ve tried to explain to you many times, the larger numbers you are citing are for all the people handed over to Germans. Out of those people, Sana estimated that at least 74 were Jews, but since it’s uncertain, it’s said that it’s “approximately 100”.

I think you’ve been under the false assumption that all deportations or even significant percentage were Jews, even though both books say that they constituted “approximately 100” out of the around 3000 people handed over. Most weren’t Jews but handed over for other reasons.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 06:44 collapse

I don’t think I’m better than the books you cited.

You obviously prize your guesswork and imagination over the historical work you were provided. You are repeatedly announcing, with certainty, how correct you are based on a screenshot of a review of several books, in contradiction of what the book I cited will tell you.

Like I said, I can’t force you to read. You are welcome for the book recommendations.

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 25 Oct 06:53 collapse

These are numbers from the actual books. The screenshot is the first work you cited, contradicting you. The numbers in the above comment comment come from Sana’s book. As I’ve explained many times, you misunderstood what you read and thought all those deported were Jews, but neither makes that claim. Most were deported for other reasons.

You obviously prize your guesswork and imagination over the historical work you were provided

I don’t, that’s why I was hoping you’d show me where in those books these claims are. Since from reading them, they thoroughly contradict your numbers. You say you can’t force me to read but I’m constantly asking you to show where in the books these claims are so I could read it and see what part you are citing. Because the parts I’ve posted here, again, directly contradict your numbers. Clearly there’s something wrong so just telling where in the books these numbers are you are basing your claim would be very helpful.

You are repeatedly announcing, with certainty, how correct you are based on a screenshot of a review of several books, in contradiction of what the book I cited will tell you.

The screenshot is from the first book you cited. I literally have it right here in front of me. You are telling me one thing and the book you say you are basing your numbers on says another. It’s a funny situation. It’s like when people claim something based on the Bible but when asked to show where it says so, they’re suddenly unable to come up with any pages or actual quotations, it’s just “it’s in there”. I bet it is friend, I bet it is.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 07:12 collapse

These are numbers from the actual books

I already told you that Sana esrimated 500 from a single deportation. You have not read Sana’s works.

I will not be replying further. You are welcome for the book recommendations. I wonder if you will read them.

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 25 Oct 07:18 collapse

already told you that Sana esrimated 500 from a single deportation.

She said 500 people were deported (in that single instance), not that 500 Jews were deported
 You are misremembering or misunderstood what she said, I’m sorry to say.

I will not be replying further

I was about to ask if you have the book right in front of you and could perhaps check that what you remember reading is actually what it said. That way we could both double check that you got it right. But I somehow doubt that would happen anyway. If you have the book right now it wouldn’t hurt to double check.

Another thing I was thinking of was that in what language did you read it? If you read it in Finnish, are you a native speaker or fluent? Because a misunderstanding could be down to that.

I’m honestly just trying my hardest to find out what part you are citing and why you’d come up with such a wildly different number from everyone else. I know you said you wouldn’t reply anymore but it would be very helpful in figuring out this mystery.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 08:20 collapse

She said 500 people were deported

Okay one last note: she estimated 500 Jews were deported in a single deportation. You can go ahead and read the book that you have no read and that I have if you want the privilege of asserting otherwise.

Such proud, unapologetic, arrogant lying.

Okay but really, last reply. Have a nice life. Hope you find a way to stop huffing your own farts.

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 25 Oct 08:35 collapse

Do you happen to remember where in the book did she claim that? I’m honestly trying to just figure out where in the book you read that since I don’t think anyone else came off from reading it with such a drastically different number. What everyone else, such as the other book you mentioned, keeps saying is “approximately 100”. It’s such a big disparity that it’s interesting.

Such proud, unapologetic, arrogant lying.

Okay but really, last reply. Have a nice life. Hope you find a way to stop huffing your own farts.

I mean tbh I think you’ve just made a mistake and are too pigheaded to admit it. But I’m trying to give the benefit of the doubt, it might just be an honest case of misremembering. If you have the book around or otherwise remember where those numbers were claimed in it we could easily check and that’d be that.

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 24 Oct 22:27 next collapse

Don’t ever try to argue with a Finn that a Russian person can be good, and that Putin is also their enemy: the Finn will shut down and stop talking to you - meaning, in their culture, that you can politely go fuck yourself.

I cracked up reading this. It’s not like that these days. Some people are and it used to be worse but things have changed a bunch.

The Russian attack into Ukraine soured things again though. Not that that’s an excuse, rather it just happened following that.

icogniito@lemmy.zip on 25 Oct 01:30 collapse

While I agree with you and what I’m about to say is the result of decades of propaganda sadly a massive part of the Russian population fully support putin and believe the bullshit they get fed.

Like I said it makes sense and they are victims of the propaganda but it doesn’t change the fact

Collatz_problem@hexbear.net on 25 Oct 02:59 collapse

Unhinged bullshit like this did more to make people support Putin than any propaganda he could spit.

icogniito@lemmy.zip on 25 Oct 03:04 collapse

Mate have you interacted with many Russians since the war broke out? I happen to spend every day surrounded by quite a few, all but one think they are justified in the war.

Now there are of course tonnes of people that don’t think that way, but they are sadly not the majority

Collatz_problem@hexbear.net on 25 Oct 03:24 collapse

For first several months the war was extremely unpopular, but sanctions and discrimination against Russians did orders of magnitude more to make people think of the West as the enemy than the dumb state propaganda.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 24 Oct 21:08 next collapse

Linux leadership: we are running dogs for American empire and will eagerly implement all chauvinisy policies in our “international” open source project. Sure we can insult you and lie and make bigoted comments.

Are you all stoked for major forks? Because this is how you get major forks. Presimably they will start as patches on upstream, but decoupling would be an eventuality.

Grapho@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 00:14 collapse

With the state of western software development and how ingrained the US and Israeli security state seems to be there, plus how much China seems to be prioritizing top-to-bottom self-sufficiency in tech, I wouldn’t be surprised if a Chinese fork that welcomes Russian contributors becomes a force unto itself.

An ecosystem where India, Russia, and China based coders take leadership is an ecosystem that has a bigger chance for mass adoption in the biggest manufacturing economies in the world.

dessalines@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 00:23 next collapse

Stuxnet is just the beginning. Who knows how many hidden programs they’re running and building, how many certs and VPNs are compromised, what encryption algos they’ve cracked, what platforms they have full and instant access to, what critical infrastructure they’ve rigged to blow, just waiting for a go code


We won’t know for 20 years at least.

TheOubliette@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 00:41 collapse

Gonna be doing the “downloading communism” meme a bit sooner than expected irl

YeetPics@mander.xyz on 25 Oct 00:19 next collapse

Just make a new kernel or something đŸ€·

Majestic@lemmy.ml on 25 Oct 01:36 collapse

This isn’t the end of Linux but it may be the beginning of the end. Right now alarm bells are screaming in China, Russia, India, across the global south about this. They’ve seen the decades of US sanctions, often arbitrary and other punitive measures including cultural campaigns of exclusion and punishment (remember “freedom fries” after 9/11 because the French wouldn’t go along with US adventures in Iraq?) now reaching a fever-pitch. All pretensions of the US to stand for freedom and individual liberty and such have been pushed aside, shoved away by these acts and the blatant hypocrisy of their support of the genocidal zionist state which even now broadens the war of aggression and genocide against Palestinians and Lebanese with full US support and diplomatic cover at the UN.

They see that all that lofty talk from the US was after all a lie. A large number of lies.

Where do we go from here? I fear fragmentation and partition of the world may be inevitable, a new cold war, the internet, software, everything being divided by series of hard and not so hard walls and barriers impeding cooperation, business, trade, cultural exchange, and people to people relations and discussions at an organic grassroots level.

Those in the west will see the freedoms increasingly curtailed, lofty language rolled back behind a large series of ever more expansive “but
” clauses, corporatization of the internet will increase, surveillance, control all justified by the waved wand of hysteria over Russia, China, Iran, muslims, whoever necessitating giving up your privacy, your rights, your freedoms, and of course any right for a dissenting opinion against whoever the current US president is and their administration.

National security in the 90s was used to outlaw export of encryption, to embargo the idea of a secure internet, to push for backdoor chips via the clipper chip in all personal computers. Now it and the same kind of foreign boogeymen are being used to finish that task that they failed at and we are letting them because of jingoism.

Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip on 25 Oct 08:04 collapse

Israel is not expanding the war, it’s expanding the occupation.