from Interstellar_1@lemmy.blahaj.zone to linux@lemmy.ml on 23 Sep 2024 18:09
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/16802688
My laptop is running out of storage space and I don’t have anything I can remove anymore to increase it by much, so I’m thinking about building a pc. I’d also like to find a better gpu for doing video editing.
It will be the first one I’ve built, so I don’t really know what I need. Also, does it matter for compatibility for Linux whether I go with AMD or Intel?
The high end of what I want to use it for is video editing with Kdenlive or Davinci Resolve, some modeling and animation in Blender, and some light gaming, like Minecraft or TUNIC.
I figure one of these guides might be useful, but I don’t really know which.
Is there anything else I should know for setting up a PC to run Linux?
Edit: Maybe these guides from Logical Increments can help actually.
threaded - newest
cpu wise both amd and intel are decent.
gpu wise stick with amd.
Just don’t bother with a 13th/14th gen intel right now. Either go 12th gen intel, or straight up AMD which is what I’d recommend.
Source
Good to know, thanks.
why would one get an old intel instead of amd?
If you’re on a budget and can get 12th gen parts for cheap, I guess
Like the other commenter said, you can get some pretty good deals due to the recent issues.
As they already mentioned, they also recommend amd but it’s still good to have a few options to deal with budget constraints.
Better Linux support?
both support linux perfectly. apparently old CPUs get cheaper in most countries, not here though. ryzen 7 prices even went up since 9 came out.
What about integrated GPU? Support was always stellar for that with Intel.
Uh… are you not aware of the catastrophically bad lithography issues Intel has had lately across both the 13th and 14th gen, and the subsequent ass-tier fashion in which they handled it?
Do not buy a 13th or 14th gen Intel CPU.
i forgot about that one.
all-amd rig it is
Not to mention, iirc you should get a bit of a perf bump for the GPU due to AMD’s Infinity Cache, so long as you roll with (iirc) Zen2+ and RDNA2+
plus, on linux, theres always AMD FineWine™ technology.
Whatever you do, do not get an Nvidia GPU. I’ve only ever had problems with Nvidia drivers on Linux. Meanwhile, the AMD drivers (both the ones baked into the kernel and proprietary) work nearly flawlessly.
Intel’s most recent generation of CPUs were also frying themselves and Intel (at least last I checked) were not accepting RMAs from affected customers. Something to consider for your CPU at least.
I only ever had Nvidia GPUs (for Blender 3d work) and while it can be kind of a hassle still it has gotten soooo much better, I ran Bazzite for a hot minute (not anymore since my graphic tablet doesn’t work with it) and it just worked ootb. On Kinoite now which was the usual “install these 500 packages via commandline” (but this time via rpm-ostree) but it still works fine.
My partner’s computer was running bazzite on a 2080 super and it gave her nothing but problems, especially with Wayland. Switching to AMD immediately fixed the Wayland issues, and also completely stabilized her system. It could be that it was a problematic GPU, I suppose. I admit that I haven’t personally used an Nvidia GPU since ~2020, however I did see the issues she had for sure.
I did see a lot of news about nvidia drivers this year so things might have improved quite a bit. I have a laptop with 4050 and it seems fine for the most part running nix but I haven’t done anything outside gaming.
That’s interesting!
Why did you rebase, if you don’t mind my asking?
For some reason my drawing tablet (Huion Kamvas 13) isn’t recognised by Ublue/Bazzite but works ootb on Kinoite. Some very helpful people on Ublue-Discord did some investigation and there’s a Github issue but it’s unresolved, there was speculation that it might be something to do with Surface tablet settings missing or overriding something, can’t quite remember.
That interesting. Well, at least you found something that works!
Yeah, pretty happy with it so far, not having to worry about an update making the computer unusable until you reinstalled everything is very nice!
pcpartpicker.com is a good place to start and can help you know if specific parts are compatible but it’s just a place to start and is often still missing important info.
So you still need to do due diligence and do things like check measurements to make sure, for example, your video card will actually fit inside your case, etc.
Also, since its your first time, you want to avoid any motherboards that require you to do a BIOS update to handle a newer processor, because that’s just complicated stuff that you’re going to want to skip as a beginner.
It’s more expensive but go for a newer motherboard that is compatible with your processor out-of-the-box. BIOS updates are a pain and scary even for advanced users.
You only mention your laptop is running out of space so you need to get a new computer? does your laptop have a soldered SSD? If that’s not the case, I think the reflex should first be to see what storage you can get your laptop so that you can keep using it rather than discarding it :(
This is good advice. Large SSDs are cheap, and often make a big performance difference on older laptops.
I am applying for university soon so I will still be using it, I also just want more power for running blender and such, but thanks for the information.
Can someone chime on who has used Blender with both and AMD GPUs vs Nvidia? Everything I could find out (which is surprisingly little) is that AMD is much slower (no real Cuda/Optix equivalent?) but I have no idea if that is true.
Mh, taking another looks at Blender benchmarks ( opendata.blender.org ), highest Nvidia median score is 12k (4090), the one I have atm (4070) has a score of 7.2k, had a laptop with a mobile 4080 before (5.7k). I haven’t really noticed any difference between them, tbh, so take this next bit with a giant bit of salt: Highest Amd score is 3.9k for a AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX (I know nothing about Amd GPUs, most reviews are from 2022/23), not really sure what to make of this but it doesn’t look too good for Amd?
High use Blender users tend to avoid AMD for the reasons you point out.
This leads to less updates due to amd users not being to interested in the community.
It is an issuw without any practicle solution. Because as I need a long overdue update. Again nvidia seems the only real choice.
Everyone is sorta forced to do that unless we can convince amd users to just try out blender and submit results.
So hi any AMD users who dont care about blender.
Give it a try and submit performance data please.
I'd avoid a 13th or 14th gen Intel processor right now because they've had a lot of problems with their manufacturing process. Otherwise, there's not really much difference between AMD and Intel in terms of like, OS compatibility or anything.
I've done some basic work with Davinci Resolve on linux and I haven't really had any issues with my Radeon 7800XT. I can't really speak for using the proprietary drivers for AMD, but with the open source drivers, as long as you install rocm-opencl through your package manager, Davinci Resolve should be fine. Overall, I'd recommend an AMD GPU.
Edit: You mentioned blender in a comment. For AMD's open source drivers you'd need to install rocm-hip for Cycles to work
Edit 2: I hadn't tried blender in a bit and I realized apparently at least on Fedora 40, you also need rocm-hip-devel at least as of 09/24/24 for supported AMD GPUs to show up in Blender. Idk how that would translate to other distros
PC Part Picker is good cuz when you start a new build, you start with the CPU and then it'll only show you parts compatible with that CPU. As someone else mentioned tho, its not perfect and you still may want to check clearances between parts, like that your CPU cooler isnt too tall for your case, or that your Power Supply isnt too long (been there, lmao)
From my own personal experience with buying brand new RAM and it being bad a few times, I'd probably run memtest86+ for a few hours once the computer is together to make sure that the RAM actually works. You can download the linux ISO w/ GRUB option and make a bootable flash drive out of that and let it run. Afterwards, I usually install my OS. Might save you a few headaches down the road if you get into your new OS and things behave strangely, but its up to you.
Other than that, the setup shouldn't be too hard.
How is Blender on Amd GPUs compared to Nvidia? I always that it’s not really all that good but I’d love to be wrong here …
I personally don't do a lot of Blender work outside of a super basic render with like one or two light sources and never really used it much when i still had an Nvidia card so I can't really speak to it, unfortunately. I've never really experienced any crashes or issues or anything, outside of a regression in one of the versions of rocm-hip that was eventually patched.
Ah, ok. Thanks for the answer, though 😸
ebay, ebay, ebay (and also pcpartpicker).
Unless you want to frag people at 4k@140Hz in the latest AAA game, you probably don’t need the latest generation components (and I’d say your requirement are quite low here, consider how the only thing you complain about is storage space).
Unless you really want to assemble everything by yourself, consider buying one of the second-hand, previous-gen gaming rigs on ebay (but watch out for scams!). Even if you do want to assemble the PC yourself, consider buying used parts on ebay (or buying a full PC to cannibalize reselling the excess).
What are the specs of your current rig? Except for storage, are you satisfied with how it runs? How much storage do you need for the projects you are working on? How much to archive things? Do you want to do anything about backups? Is a full size tower ok? How good a video do you want? What is your budget?
Here’s a video with some good builds at different price points. That should be a decent starting point.
youtu.be/8tUM-miOzBA?si=BNjOJeY3Qi_HbdyV
As you have in your post, Logical Increments is a good place to start.
As others have said, AMD is your best bet currently, mostly because of raw performance compared to recent Intel offerings. If you have no limited budget or power requirements, here are my recommendations:
If you have the paid version of Davinci Resolve, AMD does not have the best selection of hardware encode/decode options, but people have reported that Intel Arc GPUs work, so I would get and Intel A310 as a secondary GPU if that is something that you need.
If you want the best of the best GPU, without going Nvidia, the AMD RX 7900XTX is it. Also, AMD has stated publicly that they are moving away from high-end GPUs, so there probably won’t be a better one coming out anytime soon.
If you want to plan for more gaming than you stated in your post, the Ryzen 7800X3D is the best gaming CPU on the market, so I would get that. If you plan to focus on video editing, the 9950X is the best, but probably not worth the cost compared to cheaper 9000 or 7000 chips.
If you go with a Ryzen 7000 or 9000 CPU, get DDR5-6000 CL30 memory.
If you’re getting an air cooler for your CPU, don’t pay more than $50. There are a ton of great, cheap options these days.
Get either the new Antec Flux Pro case (when it’s available, probably this month) or the Fractal Torrent if you care about best thermals and quiet operation. Everything else is a compromise.
If you need HDMI 2.1, you’ll need a DP -> HDMI adapter on an AMD GPU because of a licensing squabble.
Those are things I could think of off the top of my head. I don’t think I missed anything big.
Thx for the information!
If you’re using davinci resolve then you’ll need an Nvidia GPU for nvenc to work. Otherwise, I’d say go all AMD like I did with my current and first PC, too. Fuck Nvidia even though a lot of people say it’s better now, but I have Nvidia PTSD and will never buy their shit. I have a Ryzen 7 5700G that comes with a built in GPU and a friend of mine gave me an old ass RX580 GPU that has been doing just fine for two 4k monitors. If you can give up davinci resolve or work with it halfassed, then all AMD is amazing. It’s basically plug N play.
I agree with you on the 580, although I got mine new and use it with 2 1080P monitors. I do wonder if ROCm works any better on newer cards, but I don’t have my hopes up.
2 4k monitors have been working on all games. I do admit that some games have to be set to low settings, but in general, I’m have a blast What’s ROCm? Lol
ROCm is basically AMD’s GPU compute system, like CUDA but worse but better because the card is actually usable for desktop stuff.
However, they only support it on specific distros, and they’re really weird about what cards they support. This should be changing soon - Debian’s been working on packaging it natively, and I think so has Fedora.
Some build advice:
Hope that helps, and don’t let it scare you away - it’s really fun to do and if you’re careful, chances are nothing major will go wrong.
At first I thought you meant these “programming socks” from Linux community 😭 But still a great advice
I built my current PC using one of those PCPartPicker guides, and I’m very happy with it.
The only issue I had was the video driver. I use the Linux Mint Long Term Support version, and the kernel didn’t have a recent enough driver for my card. I just needed to switch to the latest kernel and it was good to go. I actually had no idea how to troubleshoot it, and went to the LM forum to ask for help. I was reading through the guide on what info to supply with help requests and realised that the example fault and solution were the exact ones I was facing!
I've noticed that when I am specking out a new computer I typically fall into the trap of wanting the absolute best computer I can get for the money.
I've always been on the cheaper side, so I have found myself spending days or weeks researching various parts at various quality levels at various prices.
It becomes a huge drag.
Set the budget that you're comfortable with, find the motherboard that has the features that you want, then get a CPU that fits in that price range, a case that fits your use cases, and then if you're going to splurge on anything splurge on the power supply as a good power supply can last you through multiple computers.
If you have to save money somewhere, save money on RAM as you can always order more or upgrade the rim that you have relatively inexpensively. Maybe if you're going intel, purchase an i5 CPU and then consider upgrading if you max out its abilities or you find yourself frequently running at 100% utilization.
And don't overlook pre-builts. There are lots of refurbished computers that you can purchase for far less than the cost of the individual parts that have all of the minimum specs that you want in exchange for little things like only having a single stick of ram or having a low quality SSD.
There's nothing that stops you from upgrading later should your use case change.
Thanks so much. I don’t have a budget set yet, but it didn’t occur to me that I can just upgrade if I need higher specs haha, so that’ll make budgeting a lot easier.
Also, wait until Christmas if you can. Most computer parts have their deepest sale then (it’s not Black Friday, surprisingly).
If there’s a Microcenter in the area, they do pretty great deals around tax return season (if in US), lots of cpu+RAM+MOBO combos for a good $200 off.
Second the power supply. Nicer ones come with longer warranty (i think the Seasonic Titanium+ ones have a 10 year?). A bigger motherboard with more features/ports/slots can also be shifted to home server duty in the future better than say, an ITX board.
Nicer ones also come from companies with actual customer support that will replace your PSU if it fails in that warranty period, too.
Be Quiet is good, Seasonic is good and uh, yeah. Buy one of those.
I have no idea what you’re referring to, diablotek is a perfectly valid power supply manufacturer (/s do they even still exist? I heard they were legendary for exploding)
The really fun ones were the Deer PSUs.
They existed in one of two conditions:
Older generation hardware usually has better support on Linux. So don’t buy the lastest chipsets. Otherwise you might have to live with an unstable driver and compiling your own kernel for up to a year.
I’ve used Logical Increments in the past and found it very useful to meet a budget. Now I aim for “price to performance” sweet spots (since GPU prices have been crazy I’m now well overdue for a new GPU).
Both CPU manufactures are changing their naming schemes (to make it difficult to know what it is, I wish this was hyperbole). GPU manufactures also make some weird choice on naming GPUs (same-name GPU with different VRAM). Reading/watching reviews of specific parts will likely be the best way to know what you aught to buy.
If you’re confident in your technical knowledge or want to then narrow down your choices then I would recommend watching videos from:
For a casual overview of CPUs/GPUs video review I’d recommend something like Linus Tech Tips (even with the prior controversy).
Go AM5. The 7600x3d is 300 bucks and nice
Do it
GPU go with AMD, I don’t think I need to give much explanations here.
CPU you can do either, BUT AMD is usually better for multi-threaded applications (like video editing, modeling or animation), also an AM5 slot should last you years to come, AMD stayed with AM4 for a long time (I had most of the same PC for almost a decade thanks to that, it’s still the same AM4, but I had to replace the MOBO since the old one broke). So I would also choose AMD here, although Intel is not bad either, and if you get it in a sale it might come out cheaper.
You’re not wrong, but I also wouldn’t explicitly buy AM5 expecting anywhere near the same duration of new CPU support.
They haven’t announced where Zen 6 CPUs will land socket-wise, and the most sane thing to do is just assume it’ll be a new socket since their “four years” of socket support is Zen4+Zen5, which is what we’ve already gotten.
My first question is about your laptop; is the SSD removable, because if so, even a pretty large SSD is cheap these days.
Also, the GPU question is complicated. For most use cases, AMD is better on Linux. However, since you’re doing Resolve and Blender, that gets a bit murky. It depends on if ROCm support is less dismal on later AMD cards - I have an RX 580, which AMD quickly dropped support for and I am bitter about.
This is not to say I like NVidia, but for fast video encoding and rendering, as far as I know, it’s the easier option. Someone correct me if I am wrong, please.
As for actually building the thing, you’d start by look for what CPU you want, then find a compatible motherboard, then read the board’s compatibility list for RAM. They usually have compatibility lists for storage - those don’t matter, as it’s pretty universal. Then choose a graphics card, a case with the right form factor, a PSU, and a cooler. I tend to go with liquid cooling, as it’s not that expensive anymore.
Like others have said, check kernel support for your hardware, but also, it’s generally much easier on desktop. The main things to look out for are ethernet and WiFi controllers. By the way, what distro do you prefer, because that’s definitely a factor.
Thanks for the information, it’s all very helpful. I’m thinking of just using my laptop as a secondary device when I’m out of the house, so a hard drive upgrade won’t be necessary, but I’ll definitely keep that in mind. As for a distro, I’ll most likely be using Fedora.
The latest beginner guide from LTT is really good. So good that I was somewhat baffled. Whoever did the script for that episode deserves a raise. It is information packed but beginner friendly and has plenty of infographic detailing stuff.
You have a link handy?
Not them, but I do! youtu.be/s1fxZ-VWs2U
you are getting advice that will make a good gaming pc but not a good workstation for what you said you’re gonna do.
do the opposite of what most everyone in this thread is saying:
intel over amd (this could actually go either way depending on the price point), nvidia over amd, start at 32gb of ram and go up from there. prioritize cores over threads, sneak a rotational hard disk in, spend more on your power supply than you planned to.
plan on not using wayland.
Strong disagree on that one, X11 sucks
I am not going to fight you on if x is better than Wayland.
The ops use case involves operations, software and hardware that function best with x.
The op should avoid Wayland.
I mean there is no harm in trying Wayland and switching to X11 if it doesn’t work.
The op asked for help to make their experience as painless as possible and listed two primary use cases that not only are often related to the problems people encounter with Wayland but function best with hardware that is also related to the problems people encounter with Wayland.
If someone said they need to haul hay I wouldn’t say “try it in your Saturn first and see if it works!” I’d say “make sure you have a truck or a trailer.”
The harm is in setting a person up for failure when they asked for help.
Yes, it’s definitely helpful to let OP know that there could be issues on Wayland. However, ideally, OP would be able to use Wayland without any issues, or with small issues which might be offset by the benefits of using Wayland (for OP). And especially because switching between the two is literally a click of a button, it’s helpful to just try it first, but, of course, be prepared for issues.
Wayland is way less painful now as it fixes the architectural issues with X. It is simply cleaner and way less complex. It also has the benefit of being reasonably secure and maintained
Newer hardware is likely going to be wayland focused in the graphics stack. Not to say X won’t work but as time goes on it is getting more and more broken
Why should I plan on not using wayland? Is it because of the Nvidia support? I use Fedora normally so I’d have to install x11 after installation as Fedora recently dropped x11 support.
Some people hate change
You mainly want to be able to do 3d and video editing right?
Those two, specifically with davinci resolve and blender, work best with nvenc and libcuda(?), the software libraries that let you take advantage of your nvidia cards encoders and cuda cores.
So if you were building for that workload, you’d have an nvidia card and many problems people encounter in Wayland come from using it with an nvidia card.
So yeah it’s the nvidia support. Most people will say “fuck nvidia, just don’t buy their hardware” but it’s the best choice for you and would be a huge help, so choosing between Wayland and nvidia is a no brainer.
It is a bummer that you’ll need to install x specially, but I’d be really surprised if there isn’t decent support for that.
There’s always the hope that Wayland will get better over time and you’ll be able to use it in a few years.
E: a word on encoding: both amd and intel CPU’s have video encode and decode support, but the intel qsv is more widely supported and tends to be faster most of the time. When people suggest intels arc gpus they’re saying it because those gpus use qsv and for a video editing workstation they’d be a good choice.
Part of the reason I put intel and amd cpus on an even footing for you is because any cost savings you get from going amd would likely be offset by the performance decrease. Theres some good breakdowns of cpu encoder performance out there if you want to really dive in, it remember that you’re also in a good place to buy intel because of the crazy deals from sky is falling people.
That kinda ties into the cores over threads thing too. If your computers workload is a bunch of little stuff then you can really make hay of using a scheduler that is always switching stuff around. One of the things that makes amds 3d processors so good at that stuff is that they have a very big cache so they’re able to extend the benefit of multi threading schedulers up to larger processes. You’re looking at sending your computer a big ol’ chunk of work though, so you’re not usually gonna be multithreading with that powerful scheduler and instead just letting cores crunch away.
Part of the reason I didn’t suggest intels arc stuff is that you’re also doing 3d work and being able to take advantage of the very mature cuda toolchain is more important.
Plus nvidia encoding is also great and if you were to pair it with an intel cpu you could have the best of both worlds.
You’re really looking to build something different than most people and that’s why my advice was so against the grain. Hope you end up with a badass workstation.
This is such a weird comment. Why would you want Nvidia on Linux? It is a pain and more expensive. Also Wayland works well on AMD and I hear it works well on Nvidia now
I’ve heard from many commenters in this thread that Blender and Davinci Resolve play nicer with Nvidia than with AMD when it comes to Linux.
You want Intel for that. Intel Quicksync makes quick work of encoding. Alternatively they could get a beefy CPU.
The ops stated workload is better on nvidia.
For DaVinci Resolve, you will need an nvidia gpu, even their amd support is half-ar3ed, and intel doesn’t work at all (they don’t support it under linux, while they do on windows). So you need to decide if you’re going to use resolve, or kdenlive (that works with everything, since it’s not really accelerated – it’s slower (their acceleration is buggy)). However, if you’re going with nvidia, you will probably experience problems on the everyday desktop. So I’d suggest an amd gpu and cpu possibly.
Alternatively, just get a refurbished Dell laptop, or an older Zenbook. These usually work great with Linux.
I would be fine with using windows just for Davinci resolve if that makes any difference. Thanks for the suggestions.
Don’t go with Intel. Anyone recommending intel should be ashamed and should have kept up with the tech news about Intel’s CPUs basically burning up and Intel ignoring the issue, including all the warranty claims. NO INTEL. AMD Cpu and Gpu, because AMD develops more for Linux than Nvidia does. But you could still go for Nvidia (if you want raytracing on in games).
I wouldn’t recommend Intel CPUs (at least the last two gens) either but if all that matters to you in a GPU is hardware encoding (quality or codec support), like for a Jellyfin server, Intel ARC is unbeatable.
Blender and DaVinci Resolve work better on Nvidia. AMD might work, but it will be a hassle and you’ll likely need the proprietary AMD drivers anyway.
With Nvidia supporting Wayland and the open-source NVK continuing to get better, you could even switch to open source drivers for gaming at some point, if you prefer.
Edit: I’ve had enough issues with AMD GPU’s clocking down while gaming, leading to micro stuttering. So don’t buy AMD just because everyone tells you they work flawlessly.
For CPU and mainboard, everything works well — just don’t buy a random unknown SSD from Amazon, that just asks for data loss and random issues.
Get a old workstation class machine
It is way more fun
Not sure if this would help, but I found this channel helpful for understanding the basics and mostly avoiding wrong parts. Also he has some videos were he explains why you should choose one part over another.
Scatter volt channel