DankPods just switched to Linux!!!
(iv.nboeck.de)
from hellfire103@lemmy.ca to linux@lemmy.ml on 27 Aug 2024 09:25
https://lemmy.ca/post/27784074
from hellfire103@lemmy.ca to linux@lemmy.ml on 27 Aug 2024 09:25
https://lemmy.ca/post/27784074
cross-posted from: lemmy.ca/post/27756512
(Apologies if the link doesn’t work; Google are dicks)
threaded - newest
I never heard of this project before but I just looked it up and it looks like it’s about vintage MP3 player upgrading? Anyways nice to see more people, especially ones with niche jobs like this one, switching. Linux is slowly becoming a pretty major thing.
It is actually just an aussie looking at weird audio stuff. He started off with upgrading old Ipods but now he just does whatever he wants.
I like his other channels for drums / drum history (Drum Thing) and cars (Garbage Time), but notably the main DankPods channel has 1.65 million subs which could bring a load of new people’s attention to Linux.
I just checked his video about switching to Linux and I’d say it’s going to scare most potential users away more than attract them. His use case is extremely specific and even kinda creepy for a not savvy person.
I agree he didn’t do a good job evangelizing Linux. He made a video about his experiences with it, but I do think it’s representative of someone googling and first time trying Linux on their own without a guide friend to tell them, “oh you can do it this way now.” Him ultimately sticking with it in spite of that for data sovereignty is kind of the whole point of Free Software so I can respect that.
Creepy???
the Steam Deck effect.
He’s ranting about Windows for over a year (technically even longer) now and was promising a video about Linux, glad to finally see it after waking up.
It's perfectly normal I guess but I'm still not quite used to seeing so many people who don't know much about linux talking about how they use linux.
Damn who imagined that gaming would be the topic that made the FOSS OSes relevant. I don’t agree on all that steam does but, they really nail it with the Steam deck and Steam Os.
A lot of people have steam deck and it helps realize that GNU/Linux is an amazing OS.
On the other hand Microsoft and Apple are doing their best to try to give more reasons to switch.
it’s a very successful rebrand. people Ive talked to hate linux as a concept but will use a deck
Frankly, that’s been obvious for a pretty long time now. I’ve been hearing “but I need Windows for gaming” as people’s primary excuse for not switching since literally two decades ago.
Gaming has been the only pathway to mainstream desktop since forever. I’ve been around for a hot minute and I remember that consistently, the “real Linux users” for years repeated “we don’t need gaming this is an adult OS go back to Windows and play with your toys” and then turned around and whined that no one wanted to use desktop Linux. Valve stepped in and casually created the year of the Linux desktop as a side-effect of just wanting an escape hatch for their business model. Now the casuals and elitists alike will have a better experience via the magic of Marketshare, and all it really took is not listening to people that don’t know what’s good for them.
What do you mean by an escape hatch. Valve have been messing with hardware and Linux for way longer than the Steam Deck.
“Escape hatch” specifically refers to the speculation that Valve is positioning themselves in a way that they can’t be forced into paying fees for existing on the Windows platform, and that if push comes to shove they can say they only support Linux now. This hasn’t happened yet, but it’s a strategic stance which will likely prevent it from even beginning to happen. This doesn’t have to do with the Steam Deck specifically; it was also part of their intentions with the Steam Machine and etc.
Huh. That’s actually a pretty good take.
I would also wager that Valve was worried about Microsoft attempting to use “creative” methods to compete with Steam and chipping away at them, like hidden API. Its not like Valve knew that Microsoft’s attempt would continue to flop so hard for decades that they couldn’t even try that.
Yeah no, it makes heaps of sense. It just initially sounded to me like the person was implying the Steam Deck is Valve’s escape hatch from running the Steam store. Which would be ridiculous, the two business sectors aren’t even close to the same order of magnitude.
It’s not a take, that was their actual reasoning behind it. Gabe knew Microsoft well, as a former employee.
Sometime around Windows 8 Microsoft started making noises about closing the Windows ecosystem and making people buy software through their store. This would have shut things like Steam out, so Valve said “Okay, we’re going to make a Linux-based gaming platform, because we think gamers will follow us and not you. Also we’re going to create console-like gaming PCs called Steam Machines and make our own controller, because we think we can win against Xbox, too.” Microsoft didn’t lock down the platform, Steam Machines didn’t really go anywhere, but it laid a lot of the groundwork for the Steam Deck.
Thank you for the history, I appreciate it. Hopefully Valve releases SteamOS properly soon, it could be the resurgence of the Steam Machine!
always has been. the one complaint ive always heard for linux is that it didnt run games and photoshop.
most games run now, and photoshop is workable on wine if you are not a professional.
Adobe’s licensing model is also a paper sack of hot liquid shit. If you’re gonna switch to an alternative it might as well work on Linux.
ive never paid for photoshop though
Try editing HDR photos.
I need you to understand 98% of windows users (and computer users in general) don’t need or use photoshop and advanced photo editing
Sure. Many computer users have some specialized software they need. It’s not about only professional software either.
My phone records video in 4K HDR. Editing and viewing that on Linux is a pain to not possible last time I checked. Or software to do my taxes is absent. There’s also nothing on Linux that’s close to Apple’s GarageBand, which I use once in a while for fun to make music. If Netflix is now available in more than 720p, I haven’t checked. For vector illustration Inkscape is just no fun to use compared to Affinity Designer. For Software Development I haven’t seen a nicer git client than Git Tower. Screen recording was also painful last time I tried it.
I have tried Linux on the desktop from time to over the years. The weak point were always the applications. Often they are inferior to those available on macOS or windows. Support is practically nonexistent. Packages in the repository might be years old. So far I haven’t found a Linux desktop application that actually got me excited. Something or other also seems to be broken every time I try using it for longer. A ton of work on distributions seems to go into yet another desktop environment instead of actually useful applications. Upgrading between releases of the same distribution is often painful or even not supported at all.
I’m glad that Linux exists and it can be very useful for sure, but it barely meets my use cases and just isn’t a joy to use overall. My main use case for Linux on the desktop is to explore Linux. For an operating system and software available free of charge, it’s truly impressive though.
Normally I use kdenlive to edit video, which supports 4K AFAIK, but although that doesn’t support HDR it looks like DaVinci Resolve supports both.
That’s surprising. Turbotax and Quickbooks have online options, and there are a few native apps like GnuCash, but I haven’t used them—TurboTax works for me.
Yeah that’s too bad. I hear good things about Ardour, though. Also, bandlab if you’re okay with a webapp.
I only stream on an actual TV, not my computer, so I haven’t done this in a while, but I thought you could do this in Firefox with DRM enabled? If not, seems like there are addons which enable it. Might be outdated knowledge.
Fun is hard to come by
Git clients all suck for me, CLI is the way to go. However, my co-workers that use git clients all use GitKraken (on macOS) and that is available on Linux, too.
Won’t argue with you there. Don’t know why it doesn’t have first-class support in many distros. I hear OBS Studio works well for this if you want to do anything fancy with the recording, otherwise there are plenty of apps for this (Kazam might be a simpler choice).
I think really (considering the above) your main issue is that you just have some strong software preferences. There are certainly ways to meet most if not all of the use cases you listed. It requires a big change in workflow, though.
For what it’s worth, I find that most of the issues with software alternatives in Linux is that everyone often recommends free/GPL replacements, which are invariably worse than the commercial/non-free software the user is used to. But there is paid software in Linux land, too, remember. In my case, I have often found that if I can pay for the software it will be better, and if there’s a webapp version of something non-free it will often be better than the native FOSS alternative. There are many notable exceptions to that rule, but money does solve the occasional headache.
Yes, I want to use applications and do something productive with them. An operating system shouldn’t be an end in itself.
I avoid browser based software because the UX is always a bit icky. It does fill lots of niches for special software you are right.
Yes, developers need to eat, pay rent, etc. Culturally Linux users don’t like paying for software. That in turn leads to the indie developer scene you see on macOS for example to be very small.
Even donating to FOSS projects I use can be a hassle. And of course I can’t feasibly donate to the developers of all the packages on a Linux distribution. It would be cool to pay a monthly subscription, that’s then distributed among the software I use or have installed. That could be integrated into a package manager even. I don’t know if any Linux distro does something like it.
Sorry but saying Linux users don’t like paying for things is just not true. In fact stats about gaming from Humble Bundle (I think, don’t remember exactly) demonstrates the opposite: that Linux users will happily pay and on average more than windows users.
As for paying maintainers of important packages etc I think states (and corpos) should start doing it given how much of the IT infrastructure depends on them.
You are right, I remember something about Linux users paying more than Windows users and Apple users paying the most for HumbleBundle. The number of small paid applications is low compared to macOS.
Corporations and governments are already paying Red Hat or similar companies for their services and development. Their use cases aren’t the same as the average desktop users though. Linux makes for a great thin client for web applications for example. That’s very far from Audio and video workstation applications.
I’ve been thinking the same thing lately. It would be cool if at least there were some sort of metadata maintainers could include on packages saying, “if you want to donate money, upstream accepts donations at this link: <…>”. Then I (or someone else) could put together a tool that helps you track what upstream projects you’re donating to.
I understand that isn’t nearly as easy as just a subscription though. The issue I see with that is legal - you’d need a legal entity specifically for accepting payments and disbursing each upstream project’s share, plus all the accounting and such that goes along with it. I don’t see why it couldn’t be shared across multiple distributions though. Upstream packages could create an account with the funding service, then distro maintainers could include some sort of
Funding-Service-ID: gnu/coreutilsmetadata and a way to upload a list ofFunding-Service-IDs to the funding service’s servers.I think that would be doable, but it would require buy-in from distributions, upstream maintainers, and someone who could operate such an organization. Not to mention users.
Tbf the taxes thing is only a US and maybe a few others thing.
This isn’t about being fancy with Photoshop layering together bracketed photos - modern flagship smartphones all shoot direct in HDR. Basic edits in stuff like Apple Photos on the Mac or Google Photos take this into account.
Again: According to Adobe itself, 98% of computer users don’t use photoshop AT ALL. That includes windows users. It’s a problem only a few people have.
I literally said it has nothing to do with Photoshop - if you shoot a photo on your iPhone or Google Pixel it shoots in HDR, and then you just use the built-in editor on your PHONE, it will edit in HDR. Linux is worse than Pixel and iOS stock photo apps at photo editing. I don’t know why you’re obsessed with Photoshop.
That’s because the thread is about photoshop
id imagine it doesnt work? i said its workable for non professionals because ive used it on wine for simple tasks, but my time working on photoshop was already over by the time i switched to linux.
alternatives exist now too
It actually feels like in a few years, the year of the linux desktop will become real. Not even joking.
Ubutu
M’butu
No idea who this is but actually a great video.
'ol mate wade! he works on cars too on his channel ‘garbage time’
Funny how he praises immutable Arch + KDE and then uses Ubuntu (Snaps, broken packages, themed GNOME, not immutable)
I hope he finds his way to Bazzite, Aurora or plain Kinoite, as this would suit him way better
I’m thinking he might be happier with Noridian, ZephyrOS, Sylvanix, or AetherForge.
I myself have been trying neoNova, specTRAos, and VortexLinux and they’re all pretty good.
…
All of these are made up, I think, I just can’t cope with everybody and their dog still rolling their own distros (and alternatives to GNOME 3, thank goodness for KDE), even after 25 years of observing it happen over and over again.
I’m saving your comment to name the next seven distros I make
Those are not individual random 3rd party distros.
Please read up on that stuff first. I understand how oldschool users find this odd.
(Btw. great Distro names :D)
Those are so legit sounding I didn’t even realise until the second part of your comment those weren’t real.
Granted, I just slap kubuntu on everything because I’m used to managing ubuntu servers and like kde, so my distro knowledge is limited, but still
Poorly, Kubuntu uses the broken Plasma 5.27 for a while until the next release afaik.
Really that was kind of the plasma guys fault, but Plasma 6.0.2 or so was really stable. Perfect LTS candidate. Then the new features came in, now it is stable again (on Fedora).
I used Kubuntu and the outdated Plasma and many packages were annoying. Nowadays snaps, and removed base packages.
I looked into distros using plasma 6 for a bit, but decided it wasn’t worth the hassle. It’s also a not trivial boot setup (dual boot with w11 and bitlocker + LUKS + secureboot) and the (k)ubuntu installer just handled it flawlessly (meaning not having to enter my bitlocker key on every boot)
Works fine for me (except some weird locale issue, but I knew that in advance)
CentOS Stream 10 will likely use Plasma 6. That will be great.
They always add features and in Fedora it is a bit breaky breaky again. After a few minor updates its fine again, and just getting better.
Just the icons are missing I think, then it would be a great LTS.
Kubuntu uses Calamares, which is a nice installer. But I managed to wipe a drive once! Because by default it loses the destination drive selection, I went back to check if everything was fine and it selected my main drive again, I continued without noticing. woops!
What’s broken about it? I use Kubuntu and everything is working fine.
I used CentOS stream with Plasma 5 and there were a ton of bugs.
I myself reported over 200 plasma bugs and all recent ones were only fixed in 6. I am on Plasma 6 since half a year or so, so no idea what exactly that was, but a lot.
Also, Qt5 is EOL.
Ok, well “broken” sounded like, you know, that things don’t work.
Yup. They didnt, that is why I reported bugs.
bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?f1=reporter&list_id=2716…
Isn’t that a link to see your own bug reports?
Woopsie, yes that is true. I thought that was my user ID
They had us in the first half, not gonna lie
Yeah, I was like wow! In so far behind, there is so many new distros!
Zephyr is an actual operating system, but it’s not Linux
Not all made up though. I’ve been following this one’s mailing list for a while en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zephyr_(operating_system)
He wasn’t praising immutable systems, arch, or KDE. He was praising a Linux OS maintained by Valve. Many people, especially those not familiar with Linux, simply want to use a distro made by Valve regardless of the technical details.
What? No. He
Those were pretty much literally the things he said
Good point about immutability and his comment about not wanting to break his system, i forgot about that when writing. But I disagree about Arch, snaps, those are technical details. Not sure which broken packages you’re talking about or why him using modified Gnome matters.
The Universal Blue distros are cool though, though I’ve only briefly used their lightly modified main image.
GNOME has very little settings.
I actually gave Fedora Silverblue a try, documented here. This was not beginner friendly at all and still lacked many features in the end.
So this is the issue when GNOME doesnt allow basic things, like editing desktop files in a guided way, showing package names etc.
Ubuntu has had broken packages for a lot of 3rd party software (when I last used it, a few years ago), for example SciDAVis which I used, and Libreoffice and more. Flatpak works without issues here. Beginners will not add Flatpak and have issues here.
I didnt say anything about Arch I think. He also doesnt care about that. Using Arch as base really just makes sense for Valve, as it is neutral, not legally restricted etc.
uBlue deals with the constant sync (and coordination) issues between Fedora and rpmfusion. When using Arch, this is not needed.
It’s all discovery takes a while to realise what you want from a distro. Fully agree the the ublue projects sounded exactly what they wanted
I hopped a ton. Mint, Manjaro, MX Linux, Kubuntu, KDE Neon, Fedora KDE, Fedora Kinoite. Happy landing, and hopping was not fun, it simply was broken all the time.
I’d been meaning to try out atomic distros. I’m not an expert on Linux by any means but I’ve been using it on-and-off for about 25 years, and exclusively (at home, at least) for about 7. So I’m a bit more than a noob.
I do worry if I’d feel restricted inside of an atomic distro. Might throw kininite on a laptop I’ve been meaning to give to my kid, tho.
So…
Concept of OSTree or image-based
In theory “immutable distros” are safer to use. Not easier, but setting up stuff is less hard than fixing a system that doesnt boot or upgrade.
I am only focussing on Fedora Atomic desktops, which use OSTree (which is a version control system like git, but for binaries) and in the future/currently in parallel bootable OCI containers.
Both technologies have the same purpose, that your system is an exact bit-by-bit clone of the upstream system.
Layering
Now the system needs to have support for modding, doesnt it? Android doesnt, ChromeOS doesnt, I think SteamOS also doesnt? But this is Desktop Linux!
While many distros use flawed and incomplete concepts, lacking an “escape path” (reset) back to normal (100% upstream with no changes) (for example OpenSUSE microOS, VanillaOS etc), all such distros allow you to change the system.
The disadvantage of image-based is, that you always base of the unchanged image and then add your changes. On every update, you pull down the changes, open that thing up, throw in your changes, pack it again. This takes time and wouldnt be sustainable for example when using a phone.
So you kinda need custom images like uBlue. The advantage here is, that all changes are done on a single system and all clients just clone that. Fedora for exmample has notorious issues with an understaffed rpmfusion team and problems in coordination, so you might get sync issues and a critical security update doesnt work because of a random other package conflict.
or you might get a regression, uBlue could centrally roll that back.
Apps
Tbh the biggest issue is with edge cases of Flatpaks, like portals.
I just now needed to create a signature containing an image in thunderbird. The solution is to copy that image to the internal ~/.var/app/org.mozilla.thunderbird/ container and paste the exact file path there, as portals are broken after app restart.
Then adding an HTML as signature, it needs to be saved in the same folder and also linked exactly.
These edge cases are issues. Let alone missing hardware key support, no filesystem sandboxing in Firefox Flatpak (and uBlue and Fedora people think that is fine) or outdated target systems, because Flatpak needs to work on Debian 11 e.g.
There are also apps on Flathub that are broken, like QGis, or missing apps like RStudio, both known FOSS alternatives to stuff that people really use, and I couldnt even run those without Distrobox, which is also not preinstalled on Fedora Atomic Desktops, and toolbx lacks basic features like separated homedirs.
Yup, it is a rough field. But the stability is worth it. Also, official Flatpaks are great.
Onya, Wade, bring more people to Linux.
I love that he finally talked about it. He shortly mentioned the switch to Linux a while ago, in a gaming video, and Im excited to see if this makes Desktop Linux a bit more popular.
onya m8
Some of my fav quotes:
“Ads in an operating system that you’ve paid for from a company that owns ridiculous amounts of money is so offensive.”
“data, it’s like the new gold to people”
“I got the confidence to really jump into Linux after the Steam Deck.”
[regarding the terminal] “You just see text going across the screen, they’re working at lightning speeds.”
“I’m kissing convenience goodbye, I just want control.”
He is in for a surprise when he realizes GNU/Linux is much more convenient than Winblows.
Arguable
I don’t think it’s really much different. What makes windows feel more convenient is that everyone generally learns how to use it first. I think if you took a person that is not familiar with either, they would be able to figure out both OS at around the same time.
it really just depends on what hardware you are on. For example my Dell pribter was plug and play on windows . It took me 6 hours to get it to work on Linux.
This. In my recent experience on one laptop. Arch (Endevour OS btw) installed fine.
But LMDE would not boot. I got a system disk missing error every time after install. So much playing with EUFI settings in BIOS, boot back to live disl, multiple re installs, GRUB repair, remake the ISO (ISO was fine, installed on another PC with no issues). Gave up. Just could not boot to the OS.
Install normal mint. No issues.
And past the install? Bluetooth dongle works fine on arch, but so many issues on mint.
WiFi dongle A works on arch, but not mint. WiFI dongle B dosenr work on arch but does work on mint. Took me a while to work thst one out.
Headphpnes have some weird echo back to me when mic is on. Use pipewire config from archwiki. Worked, but reduced qualoty. Tried a few other configs. Didn’t work. Must have broke something coz now the original config dosnt work. So will just deal with echo.
0 of these issues on windows. And 0 likely your regular user can easily swap to Linux.
Will stay on arch tho. Fuck
spezwindows.Maybe it’s just me, I always had issues with Ubuntu and Debian based distros that I didn’t have with Arch based distros. Why do people say Arch is harder? That was never my experience. I’ve been using endeavorOS and it’s been pretty great.
It really comes down to if you are trying to use newer hardware or not. Debian based systems usually run fine out of the box on older systems.
For newer hardware your going to want new drivers and kernel versions which you get with a rolling release distro.
Arch does tend to keep packages as close to upstream as possible, which can be both a good and bad thing. Sway not binding to
graphical-session.targetby default is a little strange for example. Other distros also save a first-time user a great deal of configuration for things they probably don’t care about as well. Going through Fedora’s install and finding out that disk encryption and SELinux were configured OOTB was very nice to see personally. On the other hand Arch’s installation (w/o archinstall) has you choosing a bootloader, audio server, display manager, etc. Nothing arduous and I like it, but definitely not for everyoneThis is all eliminated by spinoffs of course, but even there users have the option to run random scripts/AUR packages without vetting them. Also doesn’t help that the most popular Arch-based distro for a while (Manjaro) was pretty flaky and generally incompatible with the AUR (despite saying otherwise), leading to many people saying “that’s just Arch” and swearing off the parent project as well
I used Manjaro for about a year and I never will again. Things just seemed to break seemingly without explanation. I switched to endeavourOS and have been using it for over 2 years. I haven’t had any where near the number of issues with eos as I did with Manjaro. It just seems so much more stable. Maybe it’s just me or my hardware configuration or something.
For me it’s the wiki. Arch just explaining so simply. Searching an issue for LMDE just lead to forums. And the Debian or Ubuntu wikis don’t seem as good as arch.
Plus must searches for <other distro> issue seem to lead to forums and random “run this code”. All arch searches led back to the Wiki. All hail the wiki.
But srsly. I feel like I’m LEARNING Linux with arch. Rather than just running fixes for the other distros.
I just installed endeavor an hour ago. I switched from kubuntu. I love the style of the is and arch programs seem to work better out of the box compared to Debian.
True, meanwhile my HP printer had a hell of a time trying to work on windows much less finding an actual downlosd for the scanner tool on HP’s websitr for a printer ovrr 5 years old and on Linux I typed
yay HP,1, then I was ready to print and scan.Plus KDE discover is the convenience if the Microsoft store was actually good.
Settings are ACTUALLY in setting instead of being split between settings, control panel, individual tool auto diagnoses, powershell, and registry edits.
KDEconnect works seamlessly and I can also locate my phone if I lost it in the house.
Yep, it really just comes down to complete luck that there are drivers in the kernel for your hardware. As another example, my Lenovo Legion sucks at running Linux out of the box. The webcam is terrible, it never suspends correctly, outputting to a monitor is incredibly painful. Meanwhile my wife’s thinkpad runs popos perfectly. Even the touchscreen works.
I had a printer I could not in my life make work on a Windows PC (2017). Then I tried my Ubuntu laptop, no drivers installed, just worked.
Fuck Windows.
at this point i have utterly forgotten how windows works and when placed in front of a computer not running linux i just get frustrated that it won’t let me do things properly
LET ME OPEN A TERMINAL AND USE REGULAR COMMANDS YOU OVERBUILT TOASTER
Assuming you don’t need a windows only application for your workflow (admittedly this isn’t very common), it’s really just a matter of getting used to it. There’s plenty of easy to use distros out there, such as Linux “I’m not buying my grandma a new computer” Mint.
If you go immutable then I really don’t think it is unless you need niche software
Niche software like the Microsoft suite? It all depends on the environment you use it in I think
Libreoffice is fine unless you’re doing something niche, so yes
HAHAHAHHAHA
where can I get a NixOS Flare?
That’s the arch of immutables, fedora kinoite is a much better example
It’s as complicated as you make it to be, and that’s gonna vary WILDLY per person lmao
Everything is complicated if you aren’t willing to commit/learn.
If you learn how to do a complicated thing, it’s still complicated.
I’d argue this is a wash. Linux is more convenient in many ways but Windows is in others.
Precisely… which means switching to Linux is not inherently less convenient than windows
I offered my son (16) to get him an “office” computer for his room so he can do homework and emails and junk. He said he felt so comfortable with Linux because of the Steam Deck and we could instead just get a nicer monitor and a docking station and he will use the Deck as a gaming machine AND office workstation whenever our main computer (also Linux) is busy
I think it should be really clear to everyone now that the Steam Deck is exactly the kind of thing that Linux needs: nice hardware with a well-integrated OS that is designed to be user-friendly and has some guardrails to prevent you from breaking it.
Not sure who that is, but great 👍
I think the worst way to sum up his channel is that he reviews MP3 players and bad headphones. You’d really just have to see it, he’s very funny.
or something along these lines he’s got as a channel title, and I think it describes the content in a very cromulent way
I think of him as a zillenial version of Ashens.
That is actually the best way of putting it.
Aussie Techmoan with Ashens for good measure.
‘I’m turning into a penguin’
Good onya mate!
Their rough new user experience is concerning though. From what they described I suspect many of their “problems” are not actually “real”, but it doesn’t really matter because they still ended up in a scenario where they thought there were problems. How did they end up thinking that everything must be done with terminal while using Ubuntu? I know in the last ~10 years there’s been a big focus on the new user experience, so what more can be done to prevent this? My gut says there are too many online resources that are confusing new users when they try to onboard themselves - especially resources that are old, written for other distros, or written for people who just want to find the command they can copy-paste to do something.
When asking for help in a Linux sub/forum/community, the answer will generally use the terminal because it works across desktops and even distros. It’s a lot easier to give one or two commands than it is to work out what distro, what desktop, and what settings the querier has, then describe the steps necessary in that particular GUI.
This may lead to the impression that the terminal is required for day to day use of Linux.
Maybe it needs to be more obvious that there are many ways to do things in Linux, and give new users a short “learning to learn” primer on how things operate differently in Linux-land, and where/how to look online for help. There are always first-boot popups but I imagine most people are conditioned to click out of them without even reading; forcing people to confirm a couple times that they want to skip “very helpful reading” may cut down on people that play the search engine lottery on what information they use for their first steps.
Also semi-related, I hope that mainstream Linux eventually “un-stupids” computers for regular people again. I get the distinct feeling that Microsoft and Apple have, at least somewhat intentionally, imposed ‘learned helplessness’ onto average computer users. “Oh computers are magic no one knows how they work. We are the only wizards that could possibly understand them and we will sell you the solution.” Windows/OSX/iOS/etc are so locked down that people have rightfully learned over time that if they run into a problem, there really is no solution. I suspect that’s permeating into the new user experience on Linux where people will encounter one problem and throw their hands up and say “fucking computers” instead of using basic problem solving to try another approach.
The problem isn’t that people are dumb or don’t want to learn or whatever, it’s that the vast vast majority of them simply do not care.
They do not care what OS runs Chrome, because it doesn’t matter. They don’t care about privacy, they don’t care about ads, they don’t care about AI, they don’t care about enshittification, they don’t care that Linux or OS X might be better, it doesn’t matter.
The computer is a screwdriver, and nobody gives a shit who makes your screwdriver. Hell, a lot of Windows users don’t even know who MAKES Windows, because it’s just “the computer”.
I’d wager that Dank Pods didn’t care all that much either - or, at least didn’t until the point that something happened that DID make him care, and the real incentive here should be making people actually care that their screwdriver is shoving ads at them and stealing their data and that’s somehow worth action from them - even though literally everything you do on a computer does that now.
How you do that I do not know, but the user has to have a solid, definable, clear reason for their change that’ll get them past the transition period, or it just plain won’t happen.
Most guides on installing things or help on fixing things will offer terminal commands, so I can see how that could certainly lead to that feeling as a new user.
Also depending on the DE and stuff certain very basic obvious settings are not available in the GUI, like fractional scaling on KDE which has to be done by editing some config file first.
Where do you have to enable fractional scaling in KDE? Worked out of the box for me when I installed that recently. Sure you don’t mean Gnome?
Fractional scaling is available, I remember using it from the settings. There is really nothing left to be configured from console anymore, and if there is it seems to be the apps themselves that pose a problem
You got the desktop wrong. KDE has fractional scaling. Gnome which the reviewer is using because he is using Ubuntu needs the editing.
I assumed he was big on Macs for their own sake. It’s a thing, for music geeks - and obviously he’s a fan of iPods, specifically. Surprised to hear his objectively correct summary of Windows versions.
What exact GUI controls does linux lack that windows doesn’t?
To be honest, a lot of system configuration is better done on the CLI or editing configuration files manually (see the majority of the audio stack). I like that approach way more than Windows but even the System Registry in Windows is more “GUI-like” than editing ALSA files or pam.d files manually (usually on the cli as they mostly require sudo). This scares people.
and this is apparently a “problem”… people shy from the command line and fail to realize “we” continue to use it, not because there is no GUI alternative but because it is simply awesome!
You want the most common things available in a Settings app(s) as they generally are on Gnome, KDE, Windows and Mac. If we cram too much stuff in there regular people struggle. Finding a good balance is a dilemma for most platforms. You want the less obvious stuff to be available in additional specialist “tweak” apps for more experienced users as they often are on all these platforms but sometimes less so on Linux. Then the really esoteric stuff you have to edit registry settings, conf files and plists as you do on all of them. Linux tends to provide more power and flexibility but requires reading documentation due to the diversity of config methods and locations.
A Mac user very sensibly contacted me worried about pasting a command to edit a plist into the terminal from a website they found trying to fix an issue. Nobody should be pasting commands they don’t understand into terminals. A quick search and I found the GUI toggle to do the same thing. It isn’t exclusively a Linux issue. Windows and Mac have complex operating systems underneath and equivalently powerful command line tools.
GUI config isn’t practical for hardcore linux users. It isn’t scriptable, we can’t store it in version control, it is harder to document, it is harder to use remotely. We have to appreciate that we have a growing number of users where it is worth taking a bit more time and sharing an alternative if one exists. However nobody wants to configure services in a GUI as we want to version, document and distribute this stuff and managing services in a GUI is unprofessional because you lose these things.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ , I can do every normal thing I wanna do in a GUI on Fedora
For what he said is more that when he search for something he only finds CLI commands, he just doesn’t know about the GUI controls.
He’s specifically using Ubuntu Gnome, which feels a lot less complete than even Linux Mint Cinnamon. Gnome doesn’t want you to customize it at all. I’m surprised they give you a master volume slider.
I used gnome though. IIRC, everything to do with customising GNOME is done through extensions, and all extensions have GUI settings menus.
My point being, even though it’s objectively harder to customise GNOME, it still doesn’t require using the terminal.
I mean, I hate Gnome and I think their work actively harms the Linux ecosystem. Gnome is deliberately unfinished. They have an artistic vision, and that artistic vision is blank uselessness is beautiful. They hate settings, they hate options. They get rid of as many settings and options as they can. Which means their UI feels incomplete to most people who try it for the first time coming from basically anything else. It’s so bad that third parties maintain “extensions” to add those options back in, and Gnome does everything they can to break those because their artistic vision does not include options. The ideal Gnome utility is a blank window with a button in the top bar that says “Never Mind.”
Many people trying Linux for the first time fail to find a setting in the options menu, conclude that Linux as a whole is dumb and bad and incapable because there’s no check box that puts the dock on the side or bottom of the monitor, you tell them to go install GnomeTweaks from the package manager, they point crotchward and say “Install this.” And they’re right, Gnome is unfinished and it’s not the end user’s job to finish it for them. Windows 95 had a robust system for changing the system theme, Gnome demanded we stop doing that.
I think you’re right in that most Gnome users don’t customize the GUI from the terminal, they install extensions. But if you ask a narrow question on a support forum, you’ll probably be told to run a terminal command, because that’s usually how Linux veterans communicate narrow answers to narrow questions over text-based media, and it’s also how a lot of system admin stuff like changing anything that ends up in /etc is done. I’ve never seen a GUI utility for editing fstab, everyone says to do that in the terminal. Gparted or Gnome-Disk-Utility might do it? I know KDE at least used to have the attitude that admin stuff should be done via the terminal. Dolphin and KATE didn’t have the option to Open As Root because they felt if you know enough to mess with the system directly you know enough to use the terminal to do so.
There are also just so many settings that just don’t reasonably have a GUI. Give you a personal example, I’m using an old speaker system that has a very hot external amplifier, every time the motherboard’s audio circuit would turn on or off the speakers would make a loud pop. I had to edit a couple files to change a 1 to a 0 and a Y to an N to stop that from happening. In Windows that would be a setting buried somewhere in Sound Settings > Volume > Advanced > More Options then the Power Saving tab or something, or maybe a registry key you’d use regedit to change. On Mint I could do it with Nemo and Xed, on some distros you have to use the terminal and something like Nano or Vim to change that setting. And newbies who probably didn’t choose their hardware for Linux compatibility and having to do workarounds to compensate are more likely to have to do stuff like that.
I didnt like very much his video. “You need the terminal to install vlc” wait what ? Ubuntu software library is here…
Also he says he will migrate to davinci resolve once he needs to, but oh boy I’ve been seeing a lot of videos about resolve on Linux and how painful it is to use (missing codecs, no pipewire support, hates Wayland …)
To be fair, the paid version of Davinci comes with the missing codecs. It’s only the free version that people have trouble with x264/x265.
I’m not exactly the typical user here, but honestly Resolve is the best option on Linux. My caveat here is that I run Resolve on my stable box, which is a Debian box, and works beautifully.
codec support is the issue as a free version, but two things there - if you’re editing, mp4 is generally not what you want anyway, and you can just use ffmpeg (or any variety of tools that use ffmpeg underneath but give you a gui) if you’ve got a file you need that its the only container format.
If you’re doing it professionally, its $300, and worth buying. Much like buying Reaper for the whopping cost of $60 (personal)/$225 (commercial).
Regarding Wayland support, I think the first release addressing it was around March or April, and is fully supported in Resolve 19. I haven’t tested, because my Debian Stable box is not using Wayland, so I personally won’t test probably for a few months (or if I get an itch to try it on my 1700x Arch box).
GPU just needs OpenCL 1.2, so despite some previous snafus (needing nvidia) with GPU, AMD works just fine.
Gotta love these videos… they can be summarized as follows:
“I hate Windows so I will try Linux with no prep… Linux is not identical to Windows in x, y, z and therefore Linux is still deficient… Looks like I cannot do everything I could think of without reading a single line of documentation, conclusion, LiNUx iS nOT ReADy!”
You haven’t watched this video, then ;)
I did… he tosses out a ton of misinformation about how hard Linux is. The fact he decided to “stay and endure the hardship” doesn’t mean the message he is pushing is sadly misinformed
Don’t be too quick to judge yet, he just doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.
Totally get it… but sadly, other people who follow him would listen to his vids and conclude “Linux is too inconvenient for me” based on mistaken info
I’m not so sure we’ve seen the end of his Linux videos. I’m sure he will learn more and talk about it.
At like 5x speed
“linux is hard” is a subjective opinion and he is entitled to it. it does not make it misinformation. he is free to express his frustrations at the learning curve, just like any learning curve in any other software.
I agree, but there is a big difference in saying “I don’t know what to do, I need to learn this new thing” vs “there is a scary part to Linux and there is no way around it”
Saying “driving manual is hard” is fine, saying “you need to learn to shift gears without a clutch to drive” is wrong and would scare potential drivers
However, this guy has actually switched to Linux, and is willing to adapt and learn how to use it.
Sure. And hopefully he can post a follow up video where he correct the misinformation on this first one
What is a dankpod?
He reviews/discusses mostly audio related tech (mainly headphones) but also dabbles in more generic mainstream tech like smartphones and laptops. The past few years he’s been expressing major frustration with the likes of Microsoft and Apple and I guess for the last few months has moved all his production over to Linux rigs, and even ditched his smart phone in favour of a modern flip phone.
Also he has a car channel called “garbage time” and a drumming stream called “garbage stream.” Very funny guy who’s definitely worth a watch.
I’ll check him out. Thx.
He also has a nugget cars channel where he reviews and tinkers with cheap old cars (and does things that outright would be qualified as torture if cars were sentient), also a music channel where he shows his drum playing and of course Frank’s channel, where he shows his pet snake, Frank. He calls it The Garbage Network.
“He”? I thought it was a brand of headphones lol
How weird, I was just thinking about this guy yesterday after forgetting about him for probably ~5 years. I got pretty into buying, repairing, and modding broken iPods for a little while thanks in part to some of his goofy but informative teardown videos. Still have a small box of parts somewhere.
Haven’t watched the video yet, but I’ll be a little surprised if he doesn’t immediately fire up Shrek to test whatever media player came with his distro.
OK I was with him for the first 4 minutes about why Windows is unusable, but this was so irritating to watch. Hyperactive videos like this drive me nuts, someone talking loud and fast and editing so there is not even a millisecond gap between sentences. But the audio aspect still isn’t hyper enough for this guy, no! the video has to be the same way, showing just his hands, gesticulating wildly the whole time. UGH.
So anyway, once I got to where he finally gets to the subject of Linux and immediately launches into the typical bullshit where he says to use Linux, you have to use the terminal and know how to write scripts, I quit watching. Most of these “I tried Linux!” videos are like this. I only clicked on it because the title said he actually switched to Linux.
I felt the same a year or so ago when he went viral. some of it pretty funny, but it wears off quickly. I binged a lot of his videos, then haven’t watched one in at least 6 months. it’s a lot of high energy squealing and talking about his battery when he knocks it over.
Awww. The poor pkcell!
So wait, are we really saying it’s newsworthy every time one person switches to Linux?
You really should check this guy out tho. He’s heaps fun to watch!
This entire video is gesturing hands in front of an apple computer. So fun!
The best way to encourage adoption is to be miserable as fuck about every topic and event.
I guess you had to be there, he has some very fun videos. His garbage time videos are a lot of fun if you like watching people mess around with shit boxes. And if you’re into drums, he has the drum thing too.
I guess if you’re boring and like watching others play games you could just play yourself. There’s hello, I’m gaming. He tries to make it more interesting but it’s gaming so.
Elsewhere in the thread people say he’s an “audio guy”, so that’s actually kinda neat if he’s going to Linux.
We’ve made progress on the Linux gaming front, now we need to dispell “Y’but you can’t use Linux if you’re into sound.” :)
Where have you heard that? The whole reason jack exists is professional audio
I’ve mostly heard it from musicians on various distro forums and such for some reason. You’re right, there’s JACK, and low latency versions of kernels and all sorts of other stuff. (LMMS is more than fine for my experience level lol)
Mainly I think it’s because a lot of the fancy paid DAWs or plugins boil down to Windows, but I’m not an experienced musician myself to really know what their exact complaints are.
I think it still might just be FUD generated by frustrated people, because sometimes you gotta do a little more than “unzip and run” for a lot of plugins.
When that person is a public figure I think it is news worthy. Because it won’t be one person but a handful. As I am betting alot of people who follow them will want to try it out as well.
This is advertising 101.
Downside is if the public figure has a bad experience it will discourage many people from not even trying.