What happens with the Plan 9 system after the boot camp has ended? From what I can see on that site, their Plan 9 shenanigans will end by mid-September. (SDF is NetBSD-centric AFAIK.)
Thatās not too hard, given that NetBSD is a niche in a niche. But a permanent Plan 9 server account which I do not have to keep running sounds intriguingā¦ thank you!
The āunknownā is Windows. If you change the graph to see the whole range from 2008 to date, you will see that whenever thereās a big spike or dip on Unknown, itās the exact opposite for Windows.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip
on 01 Aug 2024 16:00
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BSD is dying
It is sad but we build up Linux so we have a libre privacy and freedom alternative
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 03:53
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Hmm is this really happening so fast? Itās a little hard to believe.
ulkesh@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 03:56
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I suspect itās a bump due to Windows Recall. I know I fully switched because of it after 25 years of off and on the Linux Desktop. And I will not be going back.
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 04:00
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I suspect itās a bump due to Windows Recall.
I donāt believe it that much. It may just be the Steam Deckās financial success. But everything is possible.
ulkesh@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 04:07
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Maybe not, but, anecdotally, I know of a number of people who have made the switch because of Recall. Steam Deck surely adds to it, but people who have the choice to stop using Windows seem to be doing so.
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 04:09
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Maybe not, but, anecdotally, I know of a number of people who have made the switch because of Recall.
Tbh I donāt get it. Wasnāt this feature only on Copilot+ PCs that almost nobody had? Why did so many switch if it wasnāt even confirmed that itās coming to regular x86 machines? I always find it extremely weird.
RanceMcGrew@infosec.pub
on 01 Aug 2024 04:34
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Microsoft showed their hand and for some it was the last straw. It might not come to non-copilot pcs (for now) but they showed users they are OK with turning the OS into spyware.
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 04:38
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Imo Windows is not even an OS anymore.
RanceMcGrew@infosec.pub
on 01 Aug 2024 04:43
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Agreed. Itās mostly an ad delivery platform these days. Can be somewhat OK if you have a DNS based blocker but hard to block built in spyware.
thingsiplay@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 04:39
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Why did so many switch if it wasnāt even confirmed that itās coming to regular x86 machines?
Panic.
drkt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Aug 2024 09:20
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Or they see the writing on the wall
RanceMcGrew@infosec.pub
on 01 Aug 2024 04:32
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100% switched because of Recall. Been a Linux user on and off for 20 years, windows was my daily driver for the past 5 or so (windows 10 was OK in my mind). Once Recall was announced, I bounced back to Linux. Having Steam popularize gaming on Linux has helped a ton
Considering this is browser stats I doubt the steam deck has much to do with it, the steam deck is all about never opening anything other than steam.
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 06:59
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Are you sure Steam is not one of the data suppliers for it though?
plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org
on 01 Aug 2024 08:09
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I wasnt thrilled about upgrading to win11 - it adds an irritating layer of stuff that I didnt want or need. The ads and telemetry bugged me too. I was probably going to reluctantly upgrade at some point though.
But then recall was announced and I realised how much worse it could get. Been really happy with the switch to Linux.
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 08:21
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What distro do you use?
plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org
on 01 Aug 2024 15:19
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Mint cinnamon 21, then upgraded to 22.
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 15:26
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Great choice
nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
on 01 Aug 2024 15:51
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Steam deck alone isnāt much. Itās not even popular in a lot of places in the world. But there are a lot of things happening in the market, and each small factor adds up to a general trend. So, thereās no single factor that we can point that will explain the linux growth in marketshare.
Magnolia_@lemmy.ca
on 01 Aug 2024 06:33
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Yes, things move very fast if you havenāt noticed sugar pie
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 06:59
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Sus
Valmond@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 08:05
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Thatās what she said
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 08:12
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Yes, although itās not evenly distributed. Much of this rise is due to India doing some heavy lifting - theyāre on like 16%, and theyāre not exactly a small population.
Most places are in the 1.5-3.5% range.
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 08:20
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Even 3.5% is quite a lot imo.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 08:53
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Indeed it is. But this is also calculated based on monthly page views, so it only really covers devices that are used in that month.
Thereās a non-trivial amount of Windows users that have a dusty laptop that they only pull out when they need to write a document or fill in a form that they got emailed, and will otherwise do all their computing on their phone.
My guess would be that Mac and Linux have fewer of these types of users? But who knows. I have a couple of Linux devices that I almost never use š¤·āāļø
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 09:05
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Iāve seen many people having Linux on such devices so idk either.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip
on 01 Aug 2024 15:58
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You should go to your local university or knowledge center. The percentage is like 10%-20%
nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
on 01 Aug 2024 15:48
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Thereās some kind of network effect associated to it, so the greater the numbers, the more likely to grow even more, and faster. For example, when linux was used only by a very few people in IT, most people were unlikely to even give it a try, but now that every class or working group are likely to have one or two linux users, more people will be likely to try it, and so on.
What?!
All that noise about Switzerland mandating usage of open sourced software in gov (there was a great step, but itās far from mandating anything) was already weird, now we are switching to linux? And caring about security and fiscal responsibility? There has to be another country called Switzerland than the one I live in.
Youāre right, I believe the only thing Switzerland mandated (or wants to mandate?) is for projects built FOR the government to be open sourced - and even then, there are exemptions.
Of course, unlike you, I donāt live in Switzerland, so Iām probably not as informed.
thingsiplay@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 04:01
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Is someone kind enough to post a screenshot of the stats? I canāt access it, because its a known tracking site and get blocked by the plugins.
thingsiplay@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 04:26
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Okay, I have bit the bullet and made an exception to provide screenshots myself:
tgxn@lemmy.tgxn.net
on 01 Aug 2024 08:45
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Thanks for your service, comrade.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip
on 01 Aug 2024 15:57
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I wonder what happened to OS X
thingsiplay@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 16:33
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It does not mean that something happened with MacOS / OS X. If it stays the same and everyone else gets bigger, then the same gets smaller relatively speaking. Look at the dip for OS X in Nov 2023. Looks like almost the same amount of up for Windows. Also Chrome OS went a bit down and Unknown went up, only Linux stays the same.
So either something in their software changed or it was really a phase of people buying new computers and changing their OS. For a fact, I also build my PC in Nov 2023 (but stayed on Linux). Maybe that was a time of new hardware or lower prices, donāt remember exactly.
ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 16:12
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Next time try out visiting the page through archive.org
thingsiplay@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 16:22
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I didnāt think of it, because I always think or archive.org as older pages/versions. The problem is, is it updated to current? Itās a big site, so probably it will be. Good idea, Iāll check that next time through archive.org.
ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 20:42
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You can always* request a new archive of a website. If you log in (warning: it has to load google code at least when registering) you can also request a screenshot (which I donāt know how you find later on, but right after you get a link) and recursive archiving with a depth of 1.
Interactive elements remain interactive nowadays, but it has limitations.
In some cases archive.today is worth a try too. It has workarounds for e.g. facebook, or at least in the past it had a fake account to be able to save facebook content.
But this one loads whatever code from yandex, so if thatās problematic for you be sure to block it. uMatrix is best for that task, probably uBO can do it too, the Firefox version I mean.
These sites are basically my āremote browserā, and often itāll be even useful for others that I requested an archive. Quite often Iām requesting the first one.
* mostly, but you canāt if the site was very recently archived, like in 30 minutes. Then there are some sites that are blacklisted for some reason but not much.
rand_alpha19@moist.catsweat.com
on 01 Aug 2024 04:07
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Cool. My wife switched to LMDE yesterday, so that's one more into the fold.
lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network
on 01 Aug 2024 17:51
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If only MS Office worked well on Linux, due to her muscle memory, my wife wouldāve switched to Fedora for her laptop. Aside from light gaming (Sims 4, mostly), sheās not a tech-person at all, so thatās saying something in my book!
rand_alpha19@moist.catsweat.com
on 01 Aug 2024 20:54
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She might adjust to LibreOffice, it borrows heavily from the MS Office UI. I think it's also available on Windows if she wants to try it before switching. Sims 4 works great on Linux too.
xavier666@lemm.ee
on 01 Aug 2024 04:41
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Sorry but Linux is becoming too mainstream for me now. Time to hop on to BSD
Valmond@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 08:01
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Oh no, I feel it already the āI was on Linux before it was coolā
onlooker@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 09:12
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Check out mister Mainstream over here. The rest of us snooty OS connoisseurs use Collapse OS.
Dragonfly BSD, or else it will still be mainstream :)
original_reader@lemm.ee
on 01 Aug 2024 05:01
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How do I hide which OS I am using? What is behind the high Unknown number?
thingsiplay@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 05:10
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Every browser has a description like āMozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 8.1.0; SM-T580) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/74.0.3729.157 Safari/537.36ā called User Agent. You can set this value to something else, but be careful. If you set it to something that does not exist, then it makes it more likely to be identifiable. Or some things could potentially not work right if it expects a specific operating system, in example when downloading files. Usually not a big deal.
So ultimately you want to set this value to something that exist and something that is used by many people. There are addons which can make this process much easier or even change it automatically after some time period in example.
Chameleon at sereneblue.github.io/chameleon/ is such an addon for the browser. There are lot of other alternatives, I used a few of them in the past, but stopped using them because there was here and there trouble. If you do, I recommend to install this addon from the addon store of your browser and not from the website, but that is just my personal recommendation.
original_reader@lemm.ee
on 01 Aug 2024 05:55
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Thanks.
So what is measured is merely the browsers people are using? Then I can see why the metrics are more general ballparks than precise measurements, seeing that the user agent can be modified with ease.
thingsiplay@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 06:01
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The question is, if they only evaluate the User Agent? This is an organization specialized into statistics, they know it can be modified too. The ad industry tries to track you and find out everything about you despite these modifications. Donāt underestimate them!
original_reader@lemm.ee
on 01 Aug 2024 07:47
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Fair enough. They still donāt know what >7% of people are using, though.
That 7% might not even be people. It could be bots doing HTTP requests and throwing garbage in the user-agent.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 01 Aug 2024 12:53
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No? It says Linux/Android not far into it.
Agility0971@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 05:41
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Use user agent switcher and set it to something random. However that makes your fingerprint unique. Iāve read that people set it to windows just to blend in the masses
Is the data of specific distros available somewhere ?
bsergay@discuss.online
on 01 Aug 2024 05:50
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Unsurprisingly, usage numbers for distros are hard to get due to lack of telemetry and what not.
However, some measurements do exist; like data from ProtonDB. These are used by Boiling Steam for their excellent reports in which some representation regarding usage across distros can be found. Their most recent report can be found here.
Note, however, that the following, as has been excellently touched upon by Boiling Steam, applies:
COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS
Since we hear some of the following comments EVERY SINGLE TIME, letās address them here and now:
āDuh, itās not representative of Linux usage in general!ā: And nowhere does it claim to be. As often as possible we make it clear this is Linux usage in a gaming context. The usage of Debian and Ubuntu on servers is safe for now, no need to panic.
bsergay@discuss.online
on 01 Aug 2024 21:32
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Thank you. This does give an idea.
It has been my pleasure.
Follow up question : Is Arch really that good?
Depends entirely on your needs. There is a use case for Arch. However, if youāre completely new to Linux, then itās very likely that a āslowerā-moving distro (like (anything based on) Debian (or Ubuntu)) might better suit you.
menemen@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 10:42
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It is kinda crazy. Been using Linux since 2005 or 2006 on my desktop/notebook. I cannot believe we are almost mainstream now.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de
on 01 Aug 2024 11:28
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Now that we do so many things through a browser and WebKit/Blink (which run everywhere) have become the de facto standard browser engines, the OS no longer matters as much as it used to.
Nikki@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 07:37
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im doing my part šŖ
switched to arch a week or so ago, absolutely loving it
SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
on 01 Aug 2024 12:47
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Iām doing my part
Linux Mint here. Soon to switch to a more āmanualā distro.
amazing_stories@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 15:04
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I canāt think of time where I needed anything more than Mint for a desktop. Itās been on at least one device in my house since 2010.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 16:26
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The only real reason to switch to another distro nowadays is because you want to get updates faster (rolling release [like Arch] vs steady releases) and/or you want the ability to customize the OS more easily. Also, if you wanna be that person that wants to remove SystemD from Linux or have a version controlled OS.
lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network
on 01 Aug 2024 17:46
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Or if youāre sold on the hype of atomic distros (such as Fedora Kionite)
Or if youāre sold on reproducable OS configuration (Nix)
Or if you simply like the defaults of another distro better and donāt want to have to deviate from standards.
Orā¦
Nah, thereās still a lot of variety to Linux systems.
SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
on 01 Aug 2024 21:41
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I like mint cause it stays out ofy way for literally everything.
Mwa@thelemmy.club
on 01 Aug 2024 07:49
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We are so back
embed_me@programming.dev
on 02 Aug 2024 15:32
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0x0@programming.dev
on 01 Aug 2024 08:10
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Thank you Windows 11!
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 08:16
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So like 6% if you class ChromeOS as Linux (which it essentially is, just with a proprietary DE)
Then 7% unknown, youād imagine a disproportionate amount of those would be Linux users, who are more likely to have unusual useragents or things that mess with telemetry. But who knows.
sparky@lemmy.federate.cc
on 01 Aug 2024 09:08
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Windows 11 is a strong motivator. I suspect like many other people, the only reason I was keeping Windows around was gaming. But thanks to Proton and the Steam Deck, the number of games in my library that wonāt run on Linux is vanishingly small. I deleted my Windows partition a few months ago and havenāt looked back.
More limited, but also less enshittified than Windows.
If you want a good, well-polished experience for certain creative workloads, or even programming, MacOS is great and their Apple Silicon CPUs are excellent.
If you want to do ANY gaming besides WoW (which surprisingly enough has always had great MacOS support) or you canāt stand the lack of configurability, Linux is immediately the superior choice by far.
Aceticon@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 12:38
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The whole business model of Apple is to force a hardware upgrade cycle on you and force all your devices to be in that same ecosystem.
I mean, I can see the advantages of it on the short term, but on the longer term having stuff that keeps on working even as always even in older hardware (or you just install new hardware under it and it just recognizes it and keeps on working) is a massive benefit versus a $1500+ bill every two five years and having to migrate your stuff.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 16:22
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Even though I do hate Apple as a company, they do make great products, they just charge out the ass for them
lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network
on 01 Aug 2024 17:38
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Nah, even their hardware consists out of laptops with screen protection falling off, phones bending themselves into breakage and cables with the sensitive connectors on the outside so theyāll break often.
Their OS is surprisingly buggy, too.
Theyāre actually just shit all around, in my experience.
LeFantome@programming.dev
on 03 Aug 2024 22:06
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I dislike Apple as a company but I love Apple hardware. Old Macs are my favourite thing to run Linux on.
sunbeam60@lemmy.one
on 01 Aug 2024 09:48
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Mac?! Christ no, thatās doing the opposite of liberating yourself and it has less gaming than Linux Iād say.
Xuderis@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 12:27
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It does. Gaming on mac is a pain. Gaming on linux is a much better experience, and has much better support at this point. Apple really alienates developers.
fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Aug 2024 13:02
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I donāt think āliberatingā your machine is the reason people are just now getting mad at windows.
lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network
on 01 Aug 2024 17:41
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āI canāt choose when to update, anymoreā
āI canāt uninstall all sorts of things, anymoreā
āI canāt even use my perfectly fine laptop of 6 years old, anymoreā
Itās all about liberation, Iād say.
fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Aug 2024 21:14
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āI canāt choose when to update, anymoreā
That changed with windows 8 12 years ago.
āI canāt uninstall all sorts of things, anymoreā
Unless you installed the embedded versions of windows youāve never been able to do that, best you could do was turn like 5 things off in the features screen.
āI canāt even use my perfectly fine laptop of 6 years old, anymoreā
I wouldnāt call your computer not getting updates so you install a different OS āliberatingā it.
Also your computer not getting updates doesnāt magically turn it into a brick, you can still use it just fine. This is something Iāve never understood. As long as your web browser still gets updates thatās the biggest security vulnerability that Iād be afraid of. Chrome supported Windows 7 until 109 in 2023, and Firefox ESR is still going until September this year. 10th gen and older intel machines donāt get graphics updates anymore, are those machines ewaste? Shit some shitty laptops never get bios updates and thereās a whole host of vulnerabilities there.
MCasq_qsaCJ_234@lemmy.zip
on 02 Aug 2024 06:34
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And not to mention specific equipment such as train management that uses Windows XP, Windows 98 or 95. Just one example.
lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network
on 03 Aug 2024 12:42
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That changed with windows 8 12 years ago.
Oh yeah, itās been a gradual process.
sparky@lemmy.federate.cc
on 01 Aug 2024 14:07
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I didnāt mean for gaming specifically, probably should have used a transition statement. For creative and professional use cases, macOS is still far far better than Windows. For gaming yeah thatās not your platform, Linux is.
northmaple1984@lemmy.ca
on 01 Aug 2024 11:21
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Gaming works pretty damn well as far as Iām concerned, the few that I canāt get to work are irrelevant.
Iām keeping Windows around for workā¦ fuck Autodesk and fuck Dassault. So I am trying to get a VM with GPU pass through to work (had it working once but then I screwed it up and now I canāt seem to get it working again).
Aceticon@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 12:31
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Having done the transition some months ago, there is still some stupid shit one has to deal with (especially, but not only, for games NOT from Steam) at times, more than in Windows, but itās all so much better than it was before and by now quite close to the Gaming experience in Windows.
Then on top of that there are all the the longer term peace of mind things versus Windows: upgrading your Linux costs zero, changing your hardware wonāt invalidate your Linux āOEM Licenseā (plus it will probably just boot up as normal with if you just move your SSD to a whole new machine rather than throw you into driver nightmare), games that work in todayās Linux will keep on working in tomorrowās and so on - this is actually massive advantage of Linux versus Windows which is seldom talked about: more often than not, hardware migration with Linux is to just move your SSD to a whole new machine, with all the stuff just the way you like it and all you files, and it just boots with and keeps on working.
(PS: Especially relevant for gamers who have to upgrade due to the increasing demands on hardware from the gaming side of things even though the hardware is fine for everything else they do in that machine, and who would rather that all those other things theyāve installed and kept on using rather than uninstall after āfinishing the gameā, just carry on configured just the way they like it and working just the way theyāve always did, even when they do upgrade the hardware because of games. People who are fine with hardware dedicated to gaming and with replacing the whole thing - hardware and software - for newer games, just get XBoxes or similar consoles, not PCs)
Linux not only saves you from enshittification, keeps control in your hands and preserves your privacy, itās also a reliable and functional long term OS layer for your hardware that doesnāt force hardware upgrades on you.
I dicked around with the VM route for a while and could never really get it working 100% to my liking. There was always a trade-off. I ended up just getting a second PC and tucking it in a cabinet out of sight. When I need Windows I just use remote desktop to connect to it.
NutWrench@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 13:07
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Same here. If I could get Vortex Mod Manager to work under Wine/Proton, I wouldnāt use Windows at all.
WilfordGrimley@linux.community
on 01 Aug 2024 14:25
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Nexus Mods is working on an AppImage version of their mod manager that works perfectly in my testing.
Currently it only supports Stardew Valley and Cyberpunk i think.
Iām excited for it to have parity with Windows Vortex.
lukecooperatus@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 15:17
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Give it a shot again, something changed recently in Proton (I assume) that made Vortex ājust workā for me on my Steam Deck. I didnāt even need to do any fiddling, I just ran the installer exe from desktop mode using Lutris and whatever Proton was latest, and it installed perfectly. Vortex now runs entirely as expected, even from game mode.
solberg@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 01 Aug 2024 15:41
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What games are you using it for? Iāve used Mod Organizer 2 for Skyrim SE and itās worked great on the deck
NutWrench@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 15:46
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I checked out Mod Organizer 2 recently, but it didnāt support Subnautica the last time I tried it. I only use mods for a few games, line Stardew Valley and the Fallout games.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 16:18
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Really? The last few times Iāve tried (granted it was a year or more ago) I got like 15 FPS on a heavy modlist running on my desktop, which had a GTX 2080 and was running Arch, btw. Trying to get MO2 to launch the Linux version of Skyrim running via Steam/Proton and not the Windows version of Steam running through WINE was a fun mess to deal with. Once all that was handled, then half of the modding programs (xEdit, Nemesis, BodySlide, etcā¦) didnāt work with MO2s virtual FS. It was just way too many layers of abstraction to deal with š¤Æ
solberg@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 02 Aug 2024 06:16
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Yes, really haha. I donāt think I would consider the mod list I used heavy, at least not graphically. I didnāt use any of those programs you mentioned.
Trying to get MO2 to launch the Linux version of Skyrim running via Steam/Proton and not the Windows version of Steam running through WINE was a fun mess to deal with
I recall using some sort of script that installed MO2 and handled all of this (at least for the Steam Deck).
Either way, I hope their new cross-platform launcher works out well.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world
on 03 Aug 2024 10:09
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Nice, thanks Iāll give it a try again because Windows 10 is really pissing me off regarding how practically anything that you used to be able to easily disable now requires one or multiple registry hacks that may or may not work anymore.
I totally understand you not giving all that a try because while it is a handheld Linux PC, itās probably more of a pain in the ass to use on that screen and with the standard input (obviously docking it would solve these issues) than itās worth. I just keep Windows on my Desktop to play a few games, my home server is my workhorse and I have a Linux laptop that work gave me (literally, they laid me off and never asked for it back).
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 16:14
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Vortex should be easy to get working, it probably just needs the Dot Net and Visual C libraries installed, which I think you can get via Wine Tricks.
netvor@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 14:25
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the number of games in my library that wonāt run on Linux is vanishingly small
at this point, itās pretty much only about Roblox.
ā¦which I donāt want to play, Iām not happy about my nephews playing, but that seems like the only big one which really continues to struggle on Windows.
edit: thatās from my limited POV, as someone who loves gaming but i donāt follow or try out big new titles, Iām pretty much happy with my 30 favs, trying out like 5 new games a year, usually older or indie titles.
Omgpwnies@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 15:26
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Roblox is about the only reason why I canāt switch my kidās computer to Linux, they play almost exclusively that and Minecraft. Once win10 goes EOL, Iāll probably start budgeting to replace my laptop with a new PC and give them the laptop. The old PC will then get Linux and handle 3d printer stuffs
I might be out of date but for a long time my 2 nephews (10 and 13, cousins to each other) have been playing Blox Fruits, which I understand is pretty much a standard āgrindā MMORPG. (Which I donāt necessarily find that bad; having to put a lot of work in a character and seeing it grow slowly and steadily can be a lesson.) I like how they are having fun trying to coordinate and take out a boss together (sometimes dying all the time), but I suppose other games can give that, perhaps even better-looking ones and certainly ones made by less shady companies. (Oh, and actually working on Linux/steam deck)
So I was wondering if there are other games that I could introduce them to, if only to remind them that world outside Roblox exists. I never played any MMORPGās (or pretty much anything multi-player, except Minecraft/Terraria/etc. with the kids) so Iām out of the picture. Iāve only tried few in my life and never stuck for long.
Albion Online seemed child-like enough, albeit a little boring for my taste. One I really enjoyed recently is Path of Exile (and I it looks more than good enough to be hard to resist for a kid), but who knows ā is that safe for 10 to 13 year oldsā¦?
lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network
on 01 Aug 2024 17:43
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at this point, itās pretty much only about Roblox.
Itās Honkai: Star Rail for me.
Petty as it may seem, Iāll begrudgingly dual boot Win10 until H:SR is playable on Linux.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 16:12
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Literally the only reason I keep Windows around is because modding Skyrim (using MO2, not Vortex) is a nightmare. I use Wabbajack as well, so the idea of installing 500+ mods manually in Vortex doesnāt sound ideal, also since Vortexās conflict management is an absolute nightmare compared to MO2ās.
thingsiplay@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 18:06
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Iām Linux user since 2008 and as much as I want to agree with you, I canāt. Even if Mac is much closer to Linux with its BSD roots, I probably would choose Windows over Mac. Why? Because Windows is much more open and less restrictive than OS X. And there is the support and compatibility of Steam games (and games in general) in Windows. The hardware repair ability is terrible on Apple too.
Yes, Microsoft is bad, Windows is bad; so is Apple and OS X. I personally canāt live with the restrictions Apple has.
fuck_u_spez_in_particular@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 09:20
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Would be interesting to know how much of that the steam deck is
menemen@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 10:39
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It is not a steam user percentage, but according to the site by user data from web pages, it explicitly mentions search engines and social media. I doubt that the steam deck is extremely significant here.
theangryseal@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 12:54
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Iāve been docking mine and using it as my primary pc. The only issue Iāve had is that I was able to play CSGO perfectly, and CS2 donāt do so good.
Blisterexe@lemmy.zip
on 01 Aug 2024 21:22
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i hear its great for that, but you are the exception.
theangryseal@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 21:35
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Oh yeah, people who need more power definitely want something else. Itās all I need really. Iām about to inherit my daughterās old gaming laptop though so Iām not sure what Iāll do then. Definitely Linux with a small partition for windows to play some VR games. Iād say Iāll still use the Steam deck for most things though because itās so portable.
Blisterexe@lemmy.zip
on 01 Aug 2024 21:51
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Why a windows partition for vr? Vr works on linux
theangryseal@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 23:36
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Well, I guess I wonāt need one then. Hardware is a bit older but if I can get the same performance Iāll avoid the windows partition.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 16:29
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Yeah, these results are skewed because itās only desktop Linux, so mobile devices (which I believe the Steam Deck and other portable PCs/gaming devices fall under) arenāt counted, and those primarily run Linux. It seems that the foothold of Linux never was, and probably never will be, the desktop PC.
Aceticon@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 12:19
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At this rate the Year Of Linux On The Desktop will be 2033!!!
HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 01 Aug 2024 14:34
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Call me naive, I know I am. But how can Linux be a moderated product to sell for desktop? I know phones run Linux, and many other products like streaming pucks run Linux (or is called unix?), but what would it take for an operating linux system to be centralized into a package to toss into a lenova laptop youāre staring at in best buy?
Zer0_F0x@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 15:08
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One way to do it is for each company to develop their own flavor to ship with their laptop, in much the same way phone manufacturers just modify Android and ship it.
As an example, check out System76 and their laptops featuring their Pop!_OS distro, which is very user friendly and stable in my experience.
rudyharrelson@lemmy.radio
on 01 Aug 2024 15:20
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how can Linux be a moderated product to sell for desktop
It kinda depends on each individualsā use case; thereās lots of different Linux distributions that are better (or worse) for specific workloads.
Any given laptop Iām staring at in a store will probably work perfectly fine as a general-use machine with Linux Mint installed. This is my go-to distro when repurposing a machine because it works great out of the box. If I were running a computer store and wanted to sell consumer laptops with Linux on them, Iād default to Mint.
If someone is looking to turn their PC into something more specialized for gaming, they can look at something like Bazzite or Batocera. These will generally require some tinkering.
If an individual or company is looking to build an office with many workstations and user accounts, they might consider Red Hat Enterprise Linux so they can benefit from official support channels if something needs troubleshooting. Many computer labs at NCSU used RHEL when I attended many years ago.
Want a stable server environment? Debian is a standard pick.
Want a barebones system with no bells and whistles (but great battery life)? Alpine oughta work.
So Linux has many options for end users to pick from, which can be seen as a good thing (more options is generally good), but also a bad thing (many end users might consider the plethora of options to be overwhelming if theyāve never used Linux before).
Linux (or is called unix?)
Linux (Or GNU/Linux) operating systems are a modern implementation of an old research OS that was called āUnixā. Spiritual successors to Unix like Linux and BSD try to bring a lot of the design philosophies of Unix into modern OSes (I believe this is generally called the āPOSIXā standard. e.g.: macOS is a POSIX compliant OS, iirc).
If Iāve gotten any of this information incorrect, please donāt tell Richard Stallman.
cmlael67@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 16:54
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This is the greatness of Linux. Instead of having to change your workflow to be compatible with your OS, you can change your OS to be compatible with your workflow.
So if you did open a computer shop and are selling this plethora of Linux options, doesnāt that leave you liable if there are issues with the operating system?
If I buy a laptop and my windows is running poorly donāt I have windows support taking care of my windows problems?
If I buy a laptop from you with mint installed and am having problems I canāt contact Linux for support, Iāll have to contact you the shop owner.
Wonāt this liability discourage shop owners from selling laptops/desktops with Linux?
rudyharrelson@lemmy.radio
on 02 Aug 2024 14:18
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Iām no legal expert; I assume support can be either offered or completely avoided depending on the shop ownerās preference. Most Linux distributions come with a āthis software is free (as in freedom) and comes with no warranty or guaranteed functionalityā disclaimer.
If I wanted to engage more with my clients and build more trust, I might offer some degree of troubleshooting/support for the Linux machines I sold. But I donāt think Iād be under any legal obligation to offer that service just for selling the laptops.
Whether or not the computer shop offers support might affect whether or not a customer wants to shop at my store. Maybe I can sell my laptops cheaper if I donāt offer support, or maybe my laptops cost a bit more because I do offer aftermarket support.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 16:04
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Itās a tough sell because there is no monetary incentive to get Linux on laptops and desktops. Dell has a few computers that ship with Ubuntu, and Lenovo with Fedora, and thereās System76. The problem is that the big manufacturers (namely Dell) get push-back from Microsoft if they start to sell other OSes with their products, so they no longer have 100% domination. Microsoft will say āOh youāre selling a few products that come with Linux? Well, we wonāt offer you the ability to sell Windows anymoreā¦ā which would obviously be a huge impact to their business. They have gotten around this, but their offerings are still really slim. The market just isnāt there compared to Windows based computers. Shelf space is expensive so they go with what sells: Windows based products.
Is it because Microsoft is the big dog with money and Linux is no dog because there is no company backing Linux? Windows sells solely because Windows can push the product?
Would it be benificial (albeit this will be extremely frowned upon by this community I believe) for a Linux distro to be backed and monetized via a corporation with a legal team to help push a Linux product on the shelves? In the short run itās a bad idea, but in the long run itāll familiarize the public, and push software developers for compatability. The incentive being that thereās money now involved and it wonāt be a project for people.
Because right now to use Linux for the majority of user case operations youād need at least computer science 101 to start installing a distro, partitions, manual software installation, to get running. Or am I wrong on this part?
Avatar_of_Self@lemmy.world
on 02 Aug 2024 14:29
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There are a couple of OEMs like System76 and Starlabs that sell laptops with Linux on them, provide tech support for customers and so on.
And no, installing most distros arenāt hard. You just click the buttons to proceed and fill out the username and password box, select your time zone and select your wi-fi network if youāre using wifi.
You can do manual partitioning but why would you if you donāt know what youāre doing?
Installing software in the GUI is as easy as installing software from the Microsoft Store. Just search or look around and when you see something you want, just click the Install button.
Celnert@discuss.tchncs.de
on 01 Aug 2024 16:16
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Some laptop manufacturers (and at least one of the larger ones) already offer Linux (Ubuntu) as a pre-installed OS. I suspect this will become more common if/when Linux becomes more popular as a mainstream desktop OS. Most likely it will still be 1 or 2 pre-selected distros though even then.
Thatās really cool I didnāt know that was an option already. How does Ubuntu and windows compare for operating system support if I have a problem with the laptop? Is the manufacturer liable for the smooth running of the operating system? Or is the owner of the operating system liable?
Celnert@discuss.tchncs.de
on 03 Aug 2024 08:18
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Itās a good question but I honestly have no idea how that works even today with windows actually because I have not owned a laptop in 15 years. In my mind, the laptop manufacturer has to guarantee compatibility with any OS it provides but even then, some support from the OS side may be needed. The best way to handle that would be if the manufacturer started contributing to the Linux kernel and provide full driver support because then everybody wins in the long run.
secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 14:34
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Iām so happy.
But also liked when linux felt like a secret.
Microsoft finally did something right: they made their shitty product shitty enough for people to realize it.
andrewth09@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 14:57
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But also liked when linux felt like a secret.
Donāt worry. You can still tap into that sweet sweet Linux elitism by running an Arch based system or a tiling window manager.
secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 15:00
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Iām sorry, can you clarify what you wrote? I read it but then got distracted by my cursor moving on its own while I was reading an article about xzutils. Perhaps I should read it again since it made no sense the first time.
secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 15:11
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Also what the fuck is a tiling window manager? I want it!
Instead of having your windows float around, they perfectly snap and fill the space of the monitor depending on how many windows you have open. A new DE in alpha right now called Cosmic has both floating windows and tiling, you can change with just a toggle.
Cosmic is great so far, I run it on Fedora.
secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 15:24
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Oh my gosh I need this now.
Fedora? š¤¢ jk
andrewth09@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 17:15
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The big common ones are i3, Hyprland, or Awesome. However, there are tons out there and there is no right answers.
āBeing forced to work tiledā thatās the main feature of a tiling wm thoughā¦
If you tried it for a while, youād realize just how annoying floating windows really are. All that manual positioning, focus issues, getting them stuck or hidden behind other windows, etc. For big monitors, I would say tiling is just flat superior to floating windows managers.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 15:58
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Only if youāve installed Arch itself, using a GUI is noobs.
voodooattack@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 17:11
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I see your Arch and raise you a Gentoo.
iopq@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 16:15
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Thatās old news, NixOS is the new hotness
nexussapphire@lemm.ee
on 02 Aug 2024 22:35
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I think Gentoo with no binaries should be the new archlinux. Iāve literally used archlinux virtually unchanged outside of updates for years now. Itās been trouble free outside of some minor bugs and I change my settings in the kde settings panel 90% of the time.
istanbullu@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 15:12
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The crowdstrike failure is probably helping Linux.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 15:56
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This is what I was thinking when it happened. Businesses lose a shit ton of productivity and money due to Microsoft and Windows being a clusterfuck in multiple ways and they decide itās time to switch to something more stable.
It helps to move quickly when your entire infrastructure crashes.
bigmclargehuge@lemmy.world
on 02 Aug 2024 18:53
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One crash will absolutely not make this big of an uptick. The amount of highly specialized software and hardware that is OS dependant means switching will only be possible when those companies, hell really entire industries, decide to move over to a more open standard soft/hardware setup. In this case, a crash is a big deal, but the IT teams get on it and fix it in a day or two.
Also, certain Linux machines were affected by the cloudstrike outage. Even less reason to switch when the alternative was effected as well.
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org
on 01 Aug 2024 15:23
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on Reddit I think it makes sense but on Lemmy itās usually obnoxious in my experience, because itās not so populated and busy, the default browsing experience already gives you posts from all overā¦ so unless you strictly browse followed communities (which i donāt know if most people even do this) you end up seeing the same thing over and over.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip
on 01 Aug 2024 15:51
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I wonder if it is higher. Think about all the people using Librewolf
Dufurson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Aug 2024 15:54
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This is the year!
InternetUser2012@lemmy.today
on 01 Aug 2024 16:02
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Microsoftās advertising campaign for people to switch to Linux is working great.
pyre@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 16:13
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i didnāt need this date; i already knew this because the number of people coming up to me on the street and telling me they use Linux btw unprompted has increased noticeably.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works
on 01 Aug 2024 17:26
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To the moon!!! ā(Ā°0Ā°)ā ā¦ā
Xylight@lemdro.id
on 01 Aug 2024 17:30
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9 crossposts is crazy
namingthingsiseasy@programming.dev
on 01 Aug 2024 17:59
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One for every current ~0.5% market share!
Blisterexe@lemmy.zip
on 01 Aug 2024 21:19
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with like 600 comments between them, holy moley
chiliedogg@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 17:42
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How far down are PC sales in general though?
Is it that more people are buying Linux, or fewer Windows customers are buying new computers at all?
A few years ago, youād have households with a laptop for every member of the family. Now with tablets and phones doing so much of the heavy lifting, many families are dropping to just 1 Windows or Mac laptop that mostly gathers dust.
Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
on 01 Aug 2024 17:57
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My experience is more people having those devices on top of having laptops. I donāt know a single person in Uni that does not have a laptop at all. At last when it comes to writing reports or thesis you just need a proper keyboard device.
Meanwhile gaming and also PC gaming has become much bigger over the years, which keeps driving computer sales.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 20:32
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Believe it or not - but most people actually arenāt college students. Crazy, right?
Anybody in this forum isnāt a typical tech user.
I carry 3 laptops in my backpack (one for 8-5 job, one personal, and one for teaching night classes at the University) along with a foldable phone, a work phone, and e-ink notepad.
Between my 3 laptops, Rog Ally, 2 desktops, and some old laptops I keep around for media devices and network interfaces around the property, Iāve got like 10 Windows machines in my life.
But I also know Iām an outlier.
yuri@pawb.social
on 01 Aug 2024 20:54
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ooh! whatās the e-ink notepad, and whatās your usecase like?
it seems so appealing to just have a functionally infinite notebook on hand, but iāve yet to find one that could ACTUALLY replace a regular physical notebook for me.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 21:56
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Boox Tab Ultra C.
Itās a 10" color e-ink tablet that runs Android.
Donāt get the keyboard case for it - it sucks hard. Itās so thick it turns it into another laptop, it types terribly, and when folded backwards so you can write it still tries taking over from the pen.
If you carry three laptops around you are definitely doing things wrong. There is no real world scenario where doing what you say you do needs 3 physical computers, and if you have a 9-5 AND teach night classes , you donāt have extra minutes to use your āpersonalā laptop that day, which leads me to call bull on the carry 3 laptops thing
chiliedogg@lemmy.world
on 02 Aug 2024 08:58
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The course I teach involves photo and video editing, which I do on my personal laptop for 2 reasons:
Because I own the photos and videos I capture, the raws stay on my device.
I can see it. My corporate work laptop is locked down with their security and monitoring software, so Iām not using it for personal things, even if it is allowed for some limited things. And thereās company resources that I can only access through the machines under their control, so I couldnāt ditch it either. And using that laptop for a second job would be a big no-no.
I can see the school laptop being similar, though my experience is that they tend to not be locked down quite as hard as the corporate machine, unless you do boneheaded things with it and piss off the schoolās IT department.
So I can see the need for a personal computer, plus itās always nice to keep that well separated to avoid things like incidents hooked up to a projector and screen sharing.
Psythik@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 20:19
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I used to think that Iād be glued to my PC forever, but ever since getting a foldable Iāve found that Iām no longer reliant on computers anymore for daily tasks. Plus thereās no point in eating up 300w of electricity during the summer (according to my watt meter), just to watch YouTube.
These days the only time I boot my PC is to play a game, search for a job, or make a large purchase. Iām a MilleniaI, so big purchases have to be done on the big computer. The phone is more than adequate for everything else. Itās not the 2010s anymore; phone screens are finally large enough now to replace a PC, and thereās an Android equivalent for almost everything a computer can do.
CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 20:44
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Programming?
Nah. Itās a consumption device, not a creation device.
Laborer3652@reddthat.com
on 01 Aug 2024 22:47
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Run Vim in termux
CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml
on 02 Aug 2024 09:46
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Really aināt writing code in termux. I want an IDE. Why use a substandard device?
Laborer3652@reddthat.com
on 01 Aug 2024 22:50
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Yeah I used to think Iād always need a desktop, but these days I mostly only use my phone and laptop. And considering how small desktops are getting, I can only imagine the days of the traditional desktop are numbered.
nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
on 02 Aug 2024 13:48
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Both
Windows isnāt only losing markershare to linux, but also to android and ios. That can be seen in the chart for all OSes, also available in that site:
Itās also interesting to notice that linux is growing in that chart, which means that linux is really growing in popularity, and itās not just an effect of the desktop market possibly shrinking or something.
Doods@infosec.pub
on 01 Aug 2024 20:40
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[joke] That must be my friendās laptop. [joke]
yuri@pawb.social
on 01 Aug 2024 20:55
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In my head itās like half a percent, 4.45% seems huge.
Blisterexe@lemmy.zip
on 01 Aug 2024 21:17
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about 1/20 computers that browse the web run linux, thats pretty goofy
MCasq_qsaCJ_234@lemmy.zip
on 02 Aug 2024 06:51
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spark947@lemm.ee
on 01 Aug 2024 21:21
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Are steamdecks getting counted in this?
SendMePhotos@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 21:29
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Unknown
thingsiplay@beehaw.org
on 01 Aug 2024 22:05
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I had a discussion about this 1 months ago: beehaw.org/post/14768525 And decided not to bring it up again. :D
My argument is, from the eyes of the website you visit, the Steam Deck user would be identified as a desktop user. Thatās because the browser you are using (most likely Firefox) and the desktop environment (most likely KDE) in the Desktop mode would be seen as a desktop. In short, yes, I think Steam Deck would be counted, but only if people visit the pages in Desktop mode. So not all Steam Deck users are counted here.
Game mode doesnāt have a browser. I would be interested to find out of the steamdeck sales almost directly correlate to this increase. Not that I am complaining, itās a great way to use a linux desktop experience. I didnāt really read how these numbers were measured.
The other explanation I could think of is that linux desktop is being adopted widely in India. I donāt think that governmentās adopting linux desktop accounts for a significant portion of the machines.
My work laptop is windows and I hardly use it for anything personal. I just unplug the usb-c dock from it and plug it into my steam deck and use it as my desktop. Iāve done everything with it you can do on a computer.
I have been dual booting for some time now. Come back to windows 10 for gaming. But then I suddenly realize that the blizzard games that I play can run on Linux, and even from the same folder with the NTFS partition. I was stunned. No notable performance difference either.
I recently shows my mum that have an old Core 2 Duo that it can run Linux Mint. She said it works, and the computer shutdowns directly when I tell it to do. No more updating windows to wait for before unplugging the power cable.
Still have to dual boot Windows 10 for Microsoft Office Word document compatibility and Google Picasa.
She also just have bought a new computer with Windows 11, could barely make it through the installation. So many questions and configuration needed to get rid of ads and popups in Edge. Need to evaluation Mint more before I try to dual boot it on this machine as well.
mynameisigglepiggle@lemmy.world
on 01 Aug 2024 21:49
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There is a learning curve for old people. It takes time. So dual boot is a must until then.
NutWrench@lemmy.world
on 02 Aug 2024 18:29
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This. It feels to me like driving a stick shift when youāve been using an automatic transmission for years. You have to do a little more fiddling but I honestly donāt mind learning a new OS that isnāt actively working against me.
With Windows . . . on the other hand . . . every time Iāve had to go āunder the hoodā (tweak Registry settings, Config files, etc) itās been to prevent Microsoft from doing something crappy to me.
Yes, with Windows it is a fight about disabling all the new stuff they come up with.
Here, you must use OneDrive if you save a file. Here, lots of ads in the start menu, nothing is installed. Or here, please try copilot+ or bing. Do you want to set bing as your startup page? If you say no, we will ask you againā¦
A new windows update? Lets ask everything again.
LordPassionFruit@lemm.ee
on 03 Aug 2024 15:39
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It also doesnāt help that my dad still isnāt filly convinced Linux isnāt a virus/dangerous to my PC.
He is just afraid of learning new things. Best way here is to show him how it works. Learning.
LordPassionFruit@lemm.ee
on 03 Aug 2024 19:01
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Oh Iāve been trying. Heās tech adverse in general, so the concept of open source software scares him because it means trusting others with regards to tech.
Treachery4524@lemmy.ml
on 01 Aug 2024 22:35
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If you want you can try OnlyOffice, it works really well as a replacement for Office. That is if you only use Word, Excel and Powerpoint. I even convinced some Windows people to use it as its free, open source, cross platform and perhaps even easier to use at this point.
For Picasa maybe digikam? It maybe isnāt a perfect replacement though. You could always try to run Picasa in a VM (or maybe even wine?)
Microsoft does not follow its own standard for doc and docx. Any other software tries to follow the standard, thus you can get different view of the document depending on what editor you use.
Picasa I think is easier to replace. Just need to relearn. Leaning towards Gwenview. VM is not an option, too complicated and slow for her. Picasa has been depricated for a long time now so it is time to move on.
elucubra@sopuli.xyz
on 02 Aug 2024 06:33
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Picasa? Thatās been google-bandoned for a while now. What does she use it for? Plenty of photo management tools in Linux. Darktable, Digikamā¦
If the office alternatives in linux donāt cut it, and she uses Office 365, you can run it in Linux as a PWA
Picasa because it had worked fine. And the replacement, Google photos, is not an option with storing everything in the cloud.
Both Darktable and Digikam looks too advance. I think Gwenview will be a good fit. Will try later when she has the time to test. Just viewing the images in the folder, that is all that is needed.
It would be a good idea with the Office 365 but we donāt want things in the Cloud. If the PWA could run offline it would be a different story.
NutWrench@lemmy.world
on 02 Aug 2024 18:24
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You might want to check out Libre Office. Itās document compatible with MS-Office and I think it comes pre-installed on Linux Mint.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world
on 02 Aug 2024 12:52
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Iām actually gearing up to convert all of my Windows machines to Linux once the updates for 10 stop coming. This will be especially easy once the new WINE gets integrated and the few windows game apps that I use can run well on Linux.
candle_lighter@lemmy.ml
on 02 Aug 2024 13:17
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whatās the new wine?
buddascrayon@lemmy.world
on 02 Aug 2024 14:41
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possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip
on 04 Aug 2024 04:19
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Better to do it at least a few months before end off life just in case you need to move back for some reason. The alternative is Windows 11 which is very similar to Windows 10
shalva97@lemmy.world
on 02 Aug 2024 17:41
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nice
lightscription@lemmy.world
on 02 Aug 2024 22:40
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Best still rare even though potentially very user friendly and accessible.
threaded - newest
7.14% unknown!
The year of Plan 9 on the desktop!
.
Can I join the club, I use 9front
Serious question: youād use that for your daily driver?
.
Are you on oftc?
.
ah. Iāve been doing linux things, but maybe iāll try out gridchat next time iām on 9front
A rare sighting of a Plan 9 user! You need to be protected at all cost! Your species is extremely rare and important for future studies.
BTW for a moment I was upset, because I thought this is a screenshot of Reddit. I kinda like the old look of it.
What desktop environment is that? Or is it built in by default or doesnāt work quite similar to linux?
.
They got a DE built in and say GNU is bloated. Foolishness
I mean, leave it to us weirdos on sdf for stuff like this.
Out of curiosity, do you use it for fun, or does it provide you with some specific features?
.
You explained it so well, that you actually got me interested in trying it some day.
.
Bottom of site: SDF Public Access UNIX System
I love this!
Edit: I just noticed this. Is this a miscalculation of the time or am I in the wrong timeline?
.
What happens with the Plan 9 system after the boot camp has ended? From what I can see on that site, their Plan 9 shenanigans will end by mid-September. (SDF is NetBSD-centric AFAIK.)
.
Thatās not too hard, given that NetBSD is a niche in a niche. But a permanent Plan 9 server account which I do not have to keep running sounds intriguingā¦ thank you!
I wish someone would port Python and BorgBackup to it. Venti/Fossil are not quite as nice for multi-OS backups.
.
Venti/Fossil are awesome for a Plan 9 network. Sadly, the world isnāt Plan 9. TIL about gefs though.
Surprisingly many people donāt need the āmodernā āwebā for daily driving.
One of the few times I think where this is not only correct, but also most accurate
GNU HURD remains ignored.
Good.
plan9.io/plan9/
I unironically would use it
.
It says āTHE PLAN FELL OFFā and āDO NOT INSTALLā, everything OK over there?
.
Please do. Why donāt you yet?
The āunknownā is Windows. If you change the graph to see the whole range from 2008 to date, you will see that whenever thereās a big spike or dip on Unknown, itās the exact opposite for Windows.
Thanks for ruining it for me.
Why is it OS X but Windows doesnāt specify which number?
They are referring to macOS here
OS/X is just short for Mac OS X, which is what they call their desktop OS.
Not anymore.
Il feels like every month that passes Linux keeps breaking all time highs! So exciting
FREEBSD >0.009% RAAAAAH š¹š¹š¹šŖšŖšŖšŖšŖš¦¾š„š„š„
BSD is dying
It is sad but we build up Linux so we have a libre privacy and freedom alternative
Hmm is this really happening so fast? Itās a little hard to believe.
I suspect itās a bump due to Windows Recall. I know I fully switched because of it after 25 years of off and on the Linux Desktop. And I will not be going back.
I donāt believe it that much. It may just be the Steam Deckās financial success. But everything is possible.
Maybe not, but, anecdotally, I know of a number of people who have made the switch because of Recall. Steam Deck surely adds to it, but people who have the choice to stop using Windows seem to be doing so.
Tbh I donāt get it. Wasnāt this feature only on Copilot+ PCs that almost nobody had? Why did so many switch if it wasnāt even confirmed that itās coming to regular x86 machines? I always find it extremely weird.
Microsoft showed their hand and for some it was the last straw. It might not come to non-copilot pcs (for now) but they showed users they are OK with turning the OS into spyware.
Imo Windows is not even an OS anymore.
Agreed. Itās mostly an ad delivery platform these days. Can be somewhat OK if you have a DNS based blocker but hard to block built in spyware.
Panic.
Or they see the writing on the wall
100% switched because of Recall. Been a Linux user on and off for 20 years, windows was my daily driver for the past 5 or so (windows 10 was OK in my mind). Once Recall was announced, I bounced back to Linux. Having Steam popularize gaming on Linux has helped a ton
Considering this is browser stats I doubt the steam deck has much to do with it, the steam deck is all about never opening anything other than steam.
Are you sure Steam is not one of the data suppliers for it though?
I wasnt thrilled about upgrading to win11 - it adds an irritating layer of stuff that I didnt want or need. The ads and telemetry bugged me too. I was probably going to reluctantly upgrade at some point though.
But then recall was announced and I realised how much worse it could get. Been really happy with the switch to Linux.
What distro do you use?
Mint cinnamon 21, then upgraded to 22.
Great choice
Steam deck alone isnāt much. Itās not even popular in a lot of places in the world. But there are a lot of things happening in the market, and each small factor adds up to a general trend. So, thereās no single factor that we can point that will explain the linux growth in marketshare.
.
Yes, things move very fast if you havenāt noticed sugar pie
Sus
Thatās what she said
Yes, although itās not evenly distributed. Much of this rise is due to India doing some heavy lifting - theyāre on like 16%, and theyāre not exactly a small population.
Most places are in the 1.5-3.5% range.
Even 3.5% is quite a lot imo.
Indeed it is. But this is also calculated based on monthly page views, so it only really covers devices that are used in that month.
Thereās a non-trivial amount of Windows users that have a dusty laptop that they only pull out when they need to write a document or fill in a form that they got emailed, and will otherwise do all their computing on their phone.
My guess would be that Mac and Linux have fewer of these types of users? But who knows. I have a couple of Linux devices that I almost never use š¤·āāļø
Iāve seen many people having Linux on such devices so idk either.
You should go to your local university or knowledge center. The percentage is like 10%-20%
Thereās some kind of network effect associated to it, so the greater the numbers, the more likely to grow even more, and faster. For example, when linux was used only by a very few people in IT, most people were unlikely to even give it a try, but now that every class or working group are likely to have one or two linux users, more people will be likely to try it, and so on.
Time to speak to our representatives to switch to Linux Systems as Switzerland did for cyber security and for fiscal responsibility.
We must not fall behind that smart country once again.
What?! All that noise about Switzerland mandating usage of open sourced software in gov (there was a great step, but itās far from mandating anything) was already weird, now we are switching to linux? And caring about security and fiscal responsibility? There has to be another country called Switzerland than the one I live in.
Youāre right, I believe the only thing Switzerland mandated (or wants to mandate?) is for projects built FOR the government to be open sourced - and even then, there are exemptions.
Of course, unlike you, I donāt live in Switzerland, so Iām probably not as informed.
Is someone kind enough to post a screenshot of the stats? I canāt access it, because its a known tracking site and get blocked by the plugins.
Okay, I have bit the bullet and made an exception to provide screenshots myself:
<img alt="" src="https://beehaw.org/pictrs/image/bffb02a9-c070-4dea-9ecf-d8259282b254.webp"> <img alt="" src="https://beehaw.org/pictrs/image/e1d1e34d-59d2-4ee2-8bfa-6c40954f3034.webp">
Thanks for your service, comrade.
I wonder what happened to OS X
It does not mean that something happened with MacOS / OS X. If it stays the same and everyone else gets bigger, then the same gets smaller relatively speaking. Look at the dip for OS X in Nov 2023. Looks like almost the same amount of up for Windows. Also Chrome OS went a bit down and Unknown went up, only Linux stays the same.
So either something in their software changed or it was really a phase of people buying new computers and changing their OS. For a fact, I also build my PC in Nov 2023 (but stayed on Linux). Maybe that was a time of new hardware or lower prices, donāt remember exactly.
Next time try out visiting the page through archive.org
I didnāt think of it, because I always think or archive.org as older pages/versions. The problem is, is it updated to current? Itās a big site, so probably it will be. Good idea, Iāll check that next time through archive.org.
You can always* request a new archive of a website. If you log in (warning: it has to load google code at least when registering) you can also request a screenshot (which I donāt know how you find later on, but right after you get a link) and recursive archiving with a depth of 1.
Interactive elements remain interactive nowadays, but it has limitations.
In some cases archive.today is worth a try too. It has workarounds for e.g. facebook, or at least in the past it had a fake account to be able to save facebook content.
But this one loads whatever code from yandex, so if thatās problematic for you be sure to block it. uMatrix is best for that task, probably uBO can do it too, the Firefox version I mean.
These sites are basically my āremote browserā, and often itāll be even useful for others that I requested an archive. Quite often Iām requesting the first one.
* mostly, but you canāt if the site was very recently archived, like in 30 minutes. Then there are some sites that are blacklisted for some reason but not much.
Cool. My wife switched to LMDE yesterday, so that's one more into the fold.
If only MS Office worked well on Linux, due to her muscle memory, my wife wouldāve switched to Fedora for her laptop. Aside from light gaming (Sims 4, mostly), sheās not a tech-person at all, so thatās saying something in my book!
She might adjust to LibreOffice, it borrows heavily from the MS Office UI. I think it's also available on Windows if she wants to try it before switching. Sims 4 works great on Linux too.
Sorry but Linux is becoming too mainstream for me now. Time to hop on to BSD
Oh no, I feel it already the āI was on Linux before it was coolā
Check out mister Mainstream over here. The rest of us snooty OS connoisseurs use Collapse OS.
Dragonfly BSD, or else it will still be mainstream :)
How do I hide which OS I am using? What is behind the high Unknown number?
Every browser has a description like
āMozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 8.1.0; SM-T580) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/74.0.3729.157 Safari/537.36ā
called User Agent. You can set this value to something else, but be careful. If you set it to something that does not exist, then it makes it more likely to be identifiable. Or some things could potentially not work right if it expects a specific operating system, in example when downloading files. Usually not a big deal.So ultimately you want to set this value to something that exist and something that is used by many people. There are addons which can make this process much easier or even change it automatically after some time period in example.
Chameleon at sereneblue.github.io/chameleon/ is such an addon for the browser. There are lot of other alternatives, I used a few of them in the past, but stopped using them because there was here and there trouble. If you do, I recommend to install this addon from the addon store of your browser and not from the website, but that is just my personal recommendation.
Thanks. So what is measured is merely the browsers people are using? Then I can see why the metrics are more general ballparks than precise measurements, seeing that the user agent can be modified with ease.
The question is, if they only evaluate the User Agent? This is an organization specialized into statistics, they know it can be modified too. The ad industry tries to track you and find out everything about you despite these modifications. Donāt underestimate them!
Fair enough. They still donāt know what >7% of people are using, though.
That 7% might not even be people. It could be bots doing HTTP requests and throwing garbage in the user-agent.
No? It says Linux/Android not far into it.
Use user agent switcher and set it to something random. However that makes your fingerprint unique. Iāve read that people set it to windows just to blend in the masses
Is the data of specific distros available somewhere ?
Unsurprisingly, usage numbers for distros are hard to get due to lack of telemetry and what not.
However, some measurements do exist; like data from ProtonDB. These are used by Boiling Steam for their excellent reports in which some representation regarding usage across distros can be found. Their most recent report can be found here.
Note, however, that the following, as has been excellently touched upon by Boiling Steam, applies:
Thank you. This does give an idea.
Follow up question : Is Arch really that good?
It has been my pleasure.
Depends entirely on your needs. There is a use case for Arch. However, if youāre completely new to Linux, then itās very likely that a āslowerā-moving distro (like (anything based on) Debian (or Ubuntu)) might better suit you.
.
Cool
Nobody using TempleOS? =(
THE LORD NEEDS NO NETWORKING!!! THE LORD IS THE NETWORK!
If you pray hard enough, the Lord will make the websites appear on your screen!
U glowing
FFS! CHROMEOS IS F***ING LINUX, G** D***IT, WHYYY YOU DO THIS, ITāS LINUX, C***** ON A BIKE!
Cockin on a bike? What did you write there?
C*****! THAT COMMON SWEAR WE HAVE AMONG US CHRISTIAN PEOPLE THAT WE CANT SAY, DUH
Why use the words if youāre just gonna censor them?
i think i was parodying my own indignant rage
That FreeBSD club looks pretty good. Thereās a niche for every niche.
NetBSD needs some love too š©
soon we will reach the magic number companies need to finally consider supporting Linux for once
What is that magic number?
Always 5% higher than it currently is.
100%
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP
Weāre gonna hit that 5%
It is kinda crazy. Been using Linux since 2005 or 2006 on my desktop/notebook. I cannot believe we are almost mainstream now.
Now that we do so many things through a browser and WebKit/Blink (which run everywhere) have become the de facto standard browser engines, the OS no longer matters as much as it used to.
going to surpass āunknownā any year now. itās happening.
https://invidious.reallyaweso.me/watch?v=qK5nqmHz0UA
Yes
im doing my part šŖ
switched to arch a week or so ago, absolutely loving it
Iām doing my part
Linux Mint here. Soon to switch to a more āmanualā distro.
I canāt think of time where I needed anything more than Mint for a desktop. Itās been on at least one device in my house since 2010.
The only real reason to switch to another distro nowadays is because you want to get updates faster (rolling release [like Arch] vs steady releases) and/or you want the ability to customize the OS more easily. Also, if you wanna be that person that wants to remove SystemD from Linux or have a version controlled OS.
Or if youāre sold on the hype of atomic distros (such as Fedora Kionite)
Or if youāre sold on reproducable OS configuration (Nix)
Or if you simply like the defaults of another distro better and donāt want to have to deviate from standards.
Orā¦
Nah, thereās still a lot of variety to Linux systems.
I like mint cause it stays out ofy way for literally everything.
We are so back
I never left the party
Reference to my server lol
Thank you Windows 11!
So like 6% if you class ChromeOS as Linux (which it essentially is, just with a proprietary DE)
Then 7% unknown, youād imagine a disproportionate amount of those would be Linux users, who are more likely to have unusual useragents or things that mess with telemetry. But who knows.
Windows 11 is a strong motivator. I suspect like many other people, the only reason I was keeping Windows around was gaming. But thanks to Proton and the Steam Deck, the number of games in my library that wonāt run on Linux is vanishingly small. I deleted my Windows partition a few months ago and havenāt looked back.
Install Linux or buy a Mac, fuck Windows.
Donāt buy a Mac. Thatās more limiting than a Windows. But yeah install linux.
More limited, but also less enshittified than Windows.
If you want a good, well-polished experience for certain creative workloads, or even programming, MacOS is great and their Apple Silicon CPUs are excellent.
If you want to do ANY gaming besides WoW (which surprisingly enough has always had great MacOS support) or you canāt stand the lack of configurability, Linux is immediately the superior choice by far.
The whole business model of Apple is to force a hardware upgrade cycle on you and force all your devices to be in that same ecosystem.
I mean, I can see the advantages of it on the short term, but on the longer term having stuff that keeps on working even as always even in older hardware (or you just install new hardware under it and it just recognizes it and keeps on working) is a massive benefit versus a $1500+ bill every
twofive years and having to migrate your stuff.Itās more like 6-7 years and the migration tool basically clones your drive in 15 minutes
I would like to add that if you want to do any real customization of your setup donāt get mac either.
Oh definitely
Even though I do hate Apple as a company, they do make great products, they just charge out the ass for them
Nah, even their hardware consists out of laptops with screen protection falling off, phones bending themselves into breakage and cables with the sensitive connectors on the outside so theyāll break often.
Their OS is surprisingly buggy, too.
Theyāre actually just shit all around, in my experience.
I dislike Apple as a company but I love Apple hardware. Old Macs are my favourite thing to run Linux on.
Mac?! Christ no, thatās doing the opposite of liberating yourself and it has less gaming than Linux Iād say.
It does. Gaming on mac is a pain. Gaming on linux is a much better experience, and has much better support at this point. Apple really alienates developers.
I donāt think āliberatingā your machine is the reason people are just now getting mad at windows.
Itās all about liberation, Iād say.
That changed with windows 8 12 years ago.
Unless you installed the embedded versions of windows youāve never been able to do that, best you could do was turn like 5 things off in the features screen.
I wouldnāt call your computer not getting updates so you install a different OS āliberatingā it.
Also your computer not getting updates doesnāt magically turn it into a brick, you can still use it just fine. This is something Iāve never understood. As long as your web browser still gets updates thatās the biggest security vulnerability that Iād be afraid of. Chrome supported Windows 7 until 109 in 2023, and Firefox ESR is still going until September this year. 10th gen and older intel machines donāt get graphics updates anymore, are those machines ewaste? Shit some shitty laptops never get bios updates and thereās a whole host of vulnerabilities there.
And not to mention specific equipment such as train management that uses Windows XP, Windows 98 or 95. Just one example.
Oh yeah, itās been a gradual process.
I didnāt mean for gaming specifically, probably should have used a transition statement. For creative and professional use cases, macOS is still far far better than Windows. For gaming yeah thatās not your platform, Linux is.
Gaming works pretty damn well as far as Iām concerned, the few that I canāt get to work are irrelevant.
Iām keeping Windows around for workā¦ fuck Autodesk and fuck Dassault. So I am trying to get a VM with GPU pass through to work (had it working once but then I screwed it up and now I canāt seem to get it working again).
Having done the transition some months ago, there is still some stupid shit one has to deal with (especially, but not only, for games NOT from Steam) at times, more than in Windows, but itās all so much better than it was before and by now quite close to the Gaming experience in Windows.
Then on top of that there are all the the longer term peace of mind things versus Windows: upgrading your Linux costs zero, changing your hardware wonāt invalidate your Linux āOEM Licenseā (plus it will probably just boot up as normal with if you just move your SSD to a whole new machine rather than throw you into driver nightmare), games that work in todayās Linux will keep on working in tomorrowās and so on - this is actually massive advantage of Linux versus Windows which is seldom talked about: more often than not, hardware migration with Linux is to just move your SSD to a whole new machine, with all the stuff just the way you like it and all you files, and it just boots with and keeps on working.
(PS: Especially relevant for gamers who have to upgrade due to the increasing demands on hardware from the gaming side of things even though the hardware is fine for everything else they do in that machine, and who would rather that all those other things theyāve installed and kept on using rather than uninstall after āfinishing the gameā, just carry on configured just the way they like it and working just the way theyāve always did, even when they do upgrade the hardware because of games. People who are fine with hardware dedicated to gaming and with replacing the whole thing - hardware and software - for newer games, just get XBoxes or similar consoles, not PCs)
Linux not only saves you from enshittification, keeps control in your hands and preserves your privacy, itās also a reliable and functional long term OS layer for your hardware that doesnāt force hardware upgrades on you.
I dicked around with the VM route for a while and could never really get it working 100% to my liking. There was always a trade-off. I ended up just getting a second PC and tucking it in a cabinet out of sight. When I need Windows I just use remote desktop to connect to it.
Same here. If I could get Vortex Mod Manager to work under Wine/Proton, I wouldnāt use Windows at all.
Nexus Mods is working on an AppImage version of their mod manager that works perfectly in my testing.
Currently it only supports Stardew Valley and Cyberpunk i think.
Iām excited for it to have parity with Windows Vortex.
Give it a shot again, something changed recently in Proton (I assume) that made Vortex ājust workā for me on my Steam Deck. I didnāt even need to do any fiddling, I just ran the installer exe from desktop mode using Lutris and whatever Proton was latest, and it installed perfectly. Vortex now runs entirely as expected, even from game mode.
What games are you using it for? Iāve used Mod Organizer 2 for Skyrim SE and itās worked great on the deck
I checked out Mod Organizer 2 recently, but it didnāt support Subnautica the last time I tried it. I only use mods for a few games, line Stardew Valley and the Fallout games.
Really? The last few times Iāve tried (granted it was a year or more ago) I got like 15 FPS on a heavy modlist running on my desktop, which had a GTX 2080 and was running Arch, btw. Trying to get MO2 to launch the Linux version of Skyrim running via Steam/Proton and not the Windows version of Steam running through WINE was a fun mess to deal with. Once all that was handled, then half of the modding programs (xEdit, Nemesis, BodySlide, etcā¦) didnāt work with MO2s virtual FS. It was just way too many layers of abstraction to deal with š¤Æ
Yes, really haha. I donāt think I would consider the mod list I used heavy, at least not graphically. I didnāt use any of those programs you mentioned.
I recall using some sort of script that installed MO2 and handled all of this (at least for the Steam Deck).
Either way, I hope their new cross-platform launcher works out well.
Nice, thanks Iāll give it a try again because Windows 10 is really pissing me off regarding how practically anything that you used to be able to easily disable now requires one or multiple registry hacks that may or may not work anymore.
I totally understand you not giving all that a try because while it is a handheld Linux PC, itās probably more of a pain in the ass to use on that screen and with the standard input (obviously docking it would solve these issues) than itās worth. I just keep Windows on my Desktop to play a few games, my home server is my workhorse and I have a Linux laptop that work gave me (literally, they laid me off and never asked for it back).
Vortex should be easy to get working, it probably just needs the Dot Net and Visual C libraries installed, which I think you can get via Wine Tricks.
at this point, itās pretty much only about Roblox.
ā¦which I donāt want to play, Iām not happy about my nephews playing, but that seems like the only big one which really continues to struggle on Windows.
edit: thatās from my limited POV, as someone who loves gaming but i donāt follow or try out big new titles, Iām pretty much happy with my 30 favs, trying out like 5 new games a year, usually older or indie titles.
Roblox is about the only reason why I canāt switch my kidās computer to Linux, they play almost exclusively that and Minecraft. Once win10 goes EOL, Iāll probably start budgeting to replace my laptop with a new PC and give them the laptop. The old PC will then get Linux and handle 3d printer stuffs
I might be out of date but for a long time my 2 nephews (10 and 13, cousins to each other) have been playing Blox Fruits, which I understand is pretty much a standard āgrindā MMORPG. (Which I donāt necessarily find that bad; having to put a lot of work in a character and seeing it grow slowly and steadily can be a lesson.) I like how they are having fun trying to coordinate and take out a boss together (sometimes dying all the time), but I suppose other games can give that, perhaps even better-looking ones and certainly ones made by less shady companies. (Oh, and actually working on Linux/steam deck)
So I was wondering if there are other games that I could introduce them to, if only to remind them that world outside Roblox exists. I never played any MMORPGās (or pretty much anything multi-player, except Minecraft/Terraria/etc. with the kids) so Iām out of the picture. Iāve only tried few in my life and never stuck for long.
Albion Online seemed child-like enough, albeit a little boring for my taste. One I really enjoyed recently is Path of Exile (and I it looks more than good enough to be hard to resist for a kid), but who knows ā is that safe for 10 to 13 year oldsā¦?
Itās Honkai: Star Rail for me.
Petty as it may seem, Iāll begrudgingly dual boot Win10 until H:SR is playable on Linux.
Literally the only reason I keep Windows around is because modding Skyrim (using MO2, not Vortex) is a nightmare. I use Wabbajack as well, so the idea of installing 500+ mods manually in Vortex doesnāt sound ideal, also since Vortexās conflict management is an absolute nightmare compared to MO2ās.
Iām Linux user since 2008 and as much as I want to agree with you, I canāt. Even if Mac is much closer to Linux with its BSD roots, I probably would choose Windows over Mac. Why? Because Windows is much more open and less restrictive than OS X. And there is the support and compatibility of Steam games (and games in general) in Windows. The hardware repair ability is terrible on Apple too.
Yes, Microsoft is bad, Windows is bad; so is Apple and OS X. I personally canāt live with the restrictions Apple has.
Would be interesting to know how much of that the steam deck is
It is not a steam user percentage, but according to the site by user data from web pages, it explicitly mentions search engines and social media. I doubt that the steam deck is extremely significant here.
Iāve been docking mine and using it as my primary pc. The only issue Iāve had is that I was able to play CSGO perfectly, and CS2 donāt do so good.
i hear its great for that, but you are the exception.
Oh yeah, people who need more power definitely want something else. Itās all I need really. Iām about to inherit my daughterās old gaming laptop though so Iām not sure what Iāll do then. Definitely Linux with a small partition for windows to play some VR games. Iād say Iāll still use the Steam deck for most things though because itās so portable.
Why a windows partition for vr? Vr works on linux
Well, I guess I wonāt need one then. Hardware is a bit older but if I can get the same performance Iāll avoid the windows partition.
Yeah, these results are skewed because itās only desktop Linux, so mobile devices (which I believe the Steam Deck and other portable PCs/gaming devices fall under) arenāt counted, and those primarily run Linux. It seems that the foothold of Linux never was, and probably never will be, the desktop PC.
At this rate the Year Of Linux On The Desktop will be 2033!!!
2033!!! = At least 16
Call me naive, I know I am. But how can Linux be a moderated product to sell for desktop? I know phones run Linux, and many other products like streaming pucks run Linux (or is called unix?), but what would it take for an operating linux system to be centralized into a package to toss into a lenova laptop youāre staring at in best buy?
One way to do it is for each company to develop their own flavor to ship with their laptop, in much the same way phone manufacturers just modify Android and ship it.
As an example, check out System76 and their laptops featuring their Pop!_OS distro, which is very user friendly and stable in my experience.
It kinda depends on each individualsā use case; thereās lots of different Linux distributions that are better (or worse) for specific workloads.
Any given laptop Iām staring at in a store will probably work perfectly fine as a general-use machine with Linux Mint installed. This is my go-to distro when repurposing a machine because it works great out of the box. If I were running a computer store and wanted to sell consumer laptops with Linux on them, Iād default to Mint.
If someone is looking to turn their PC into something more specialized for gaming, they can look at something like Bazzite or Batocera. These will generally require some tinkering.
If an individual or company is looking to build an office with many workstations and user accounts, they might consider Red Hat Enterprise Linux so they can benefit from official support channels if something needs troubleshooting. Many computer labs at NCSU used RHEL when I attended many years ago.
Want a stable server environment? Debian is a standard pick.
Want a barebones system with no bells and whistles (but great battery life)? Alpine oughta work.
So Linux has many options for end users to pick from, which can be seen as a good thing (more options is generally good), but also a bad thing (many end users might consider the plethora of options to be overwhelming if theyāve never used Linux before).
Linux (Or GNU/Linux) operating systems are a modern implementation of an old research OS that was called āUnixā. Spiritual successors to Unix like Linux and BSD try to bring a lot of the design philosophies of Unix into modern OSes (I believe this is generally called the āPOSIXā standard. e.g.: macOS is a POSIX compliant OS, iirc).
If Iāve gotten any of this information incorrect, please donāt tell Richard Stallman.
This is the greatness of Linux. Instead of having to change your workflow to be compatible with your OS, you can change your OS to be compatible with your workflow.
So if you did open a computer shop and are selling this plethora of Linux options, doesnāt that leave you liable if there are issues with the operating system?
If I buy a laptop and my windows is running poorly donāt I have windows support taking care of my windows problems?
If I buy a laptop from you with mint installed and am having problems I canāt contact Linux for support, Iāll have to contact you the shop owner.
Wonāt this liability discourage shop owners from selling laptops/desktops with Linux?
Iām no legal expert; I assume support can be either offered or completely avoided depending on the shop ownerās preference. Most Linux distributions come with a āthis software is free (as in freedom) and comes with no warranty or guaranteed functionalityā disclaimer.
If I wanted to engage more with my clients and build more trust, I might offer some degree of troubleshooting/support for the Linux machines I sold. But I donāt think Iād be under any legal obligation to offer that service just for selling the laptops.
Whether or not the computer shop offers support might affect whether or not a customer wants to shop at my store. Maybe I can sell my laptops cheaper if I donāt offer support, or maybe my laptops cost a bit more because I do offer aftermarket support.
Itās a tough sell because there is no monetary incentive to get Linux on laptops and desktops. Dell has a few computers that ship with Ubuntu, and Lenovo with Fedora, and thereās System76. The problem is that the big manufacturers (namely Dell) get push-back from Microsoft if they start to sell other OSes with their products, so they no longer have 100% domination. Microsoft will say āOh youāre selling a few products that come with Linux? Well, we wonāt offer you the ability to sell Windows anymoreā¦ā which would obviously be a huge impact to their business. They have gotten around this, but their offerings are still really slim. The market just isnāt there compared to Windows based computers. Shelf space is expensive so they go with what sells: Windows based products.
Is it because Microsoft is the big dog with money and Linux is no dog because there is no company backing Linux? Windows sells solely because Windows can push the product?
Would it be benificial (albeit this will be extremely frowned upon by this community I believe) for a Linux distro to be backed and monetized via a corporation with a legal team to help push a Linux product on the shelves? In the short run itās a bad idea, but in the long run itāll familiarize the public, and push software developers for compatability. The incentive being that thereās money now involved and it wonāt be a project for people.
Because right now to use Linux for the majority of user case operations youād need at least computer science 101 to start installing a distro, partitions, manual software installation, to get running. Or am I wrong on this part?
There are a couple of OEMs like System76 and Starlabs that sell laptops with Linux on them, provide tech support for customers and so on.
And no, installing most distros arenāt hard. You just click the buttons to proceed and fill out the username and password box, select your time zone and select your wi-fi network if youāre using wifi.
You can do manual partitioning but why would you if you donāt know what youāre doing?
Installing software in the GUI is as easy as installing software from the Microsoft Store. Just search or look around and when you see something you want, just click the Install button.
Some laptop manufacturers (and at least one of the larger ones) already offer Linux (Ubuntu) as a pre-installed OS. I suspect this will become more common if/when Linux becomes more popular as a mainstream desktop OS. Most likely it will still be 1 or 2 pre-selected distros though even then.
Thatās really cool I didnāt know that was an option already. How does Ubuntu and windows compare for operating system support if I have a problem with the laptop? Is the manufacturer liable for the smooth running of the operating system? Or is the owner of the operating system liable?
Itās a good question but I honestly have no idea how that works even today with windows actually because I have not owned a laptop in 15 years. In my mind, the laptop manufacturer has to guarantee compatibility with any OS it provides but even then, some support from the OS side may be needed. The best way to handle that would be if the manufacturer started contributing to the Linux kernel and provide full driver support because then everybody wins in the long run.
Iām so happy.
But also liked when linux felt like a secret.
Microsoft finally did something right: they made their shitty product shitty enough for people to realize it.
Donāt worry. You can still tap into that sweet sweet Linux elitism by running an Arch based system or a tiling window manager.
Iām sorry, can you clarify what you wrote? I read it but then got distracted by my cursor moving on its own while I was reading an article about xzutils. Perhaps I should read it again since it made no sense the first time.
Also what the fuck is a tiling window manager? I want it!
Instead of having your windows float around, they perfectly snap and fill the space of the monitor depending on how many windows you have open. A new DE in alpha right now called Cosmic has both floating windows and tiling, you can change with just a toggle.
Cosmic is great so far, I run it on Fedora.
Oh my gosh I need this now.
Fedora? š¤¢ jk
The big common ones are i3, Hyprland, or Awesome. However, there are tons out there and there is no right answers.
I want my windows anywhere I want them, and in Cinnamon I can snap windows to corners, o top, or bottomā¦ Being forced to work tiled is backwards.
If as someone mentioned in Cosmic you can toggle it off and on ( and the toggle is esasily accesible, not buried in settings) Iām fine with that
āBeing forced to work tiledā thatās the main feature of a tiling wm thoughā¦
If you tried it for a while, youād realize just how annoying floating windows really are. All that manual positioning, focus issues, getting them stuck or hidden behind other windows, etc. For big monitors, I would say tiling is just flat superior to floating windows managers.
Only if youāve installed Arch itself, using a GUI is noobs.
I see your Arch and raise you a Gentoo.
Thatās old news, NixOS is the new hotness
I think Gentoo with no binaries should be the new archlinux. Iāve literally used archlinux virtually unchanged outside of updates for years now. Itās been trouble free outside of some minor bugs and I change my settings in the kde settings panel 90% of the time.
The crowdstrike failure is probably helping Linux.
This is what I was thinking when it happened. Businesses lose a shit ton of productivity and money due to Microsoft and Windows being a clusterfuck in multiple ways and they decide itās time to switch to something more stable.
Actually, crowdstrike has a very bad record regarding this, their services even managed to break Debian servers one time.
Source: some article.
In fact, that failure occurred this year. Now all thatās left is for macOS to have a failure with that company and the collection is complete.
I believe BSD has more servers than macOS.
I highly doubt businesses would have been this fast in making the switch.
It helps to move quickly when your entire infrastructure crashes.
One crash will absolutely not make this big of an uptick. The amount of highly specialized software and hardware that is OS dependant means switching will only be possible when those companies, hell really entire industries, decide to move over to a more open standard soft/hardware setup. In this case, a crash is a big deal, but the IT teams get on it and fix it in a day or two.
Also, certain Linux machines were affected by the cloudstrike outage. Even less reason to switch when the alternative was effected as well.
<img alt="" src="https://feddit.org/pictrs/image/5b3f2ad1-24ac-49f3-821f-33f153d724d0.png">
I understand youāre excited, but arenāt you overdoing it a bit?
Quick give me more subs to crosspost
linux_gaming@lemmy.world is on there twice ???
We need more cross posts
on Reddit I think it makes sense but on Lemmy itās usually obnoxious in my experience, because itās not so populated and busy, the default browsing experience already gives you posts from all overā¦ so unless you strictly browse followed communities (which i donāt know if most people even do this) you end up seeing the same thing over and over.
I wonder if it is higher. Think about all the people using Librewolf
This is the year!
Microsoftās advertising campaign for people to switch to Linux is working great.
i didnāt need this date; i already knew this because the number of people coming up to me on the street and telling me they use Linux btw unprompted has increased noticeably.
It is 16% in India, lessgo!
To the moon!!! ā(Ā°0Ā°)ā ā¦ā
9 crossposts is crazy
One for every current ~0.5% market share!
with like 600 comments between them, holy moley
How far down are PC sales in general though?
Is it that more people are buying Linux, or fewer Windows customers are buying new computers at all?
A few years ago, youād have households with a laptop for every member of the family. Now with tablets and phones doing so much of the heavy lifting, many families are dropping to just 1 Windows or Mac laptop that mostly gathers dust.
My experience is more people having those devices on top of having laptops. I donāt know a single person in Uni that does not have a laptop at all. At last when it comes to writing reports or thesis you just need a proper keyboard device.
Meanwhile gaming and also PC gaming has become much bigger over the years, which keeps driving computer sales.
Believe it or not - but most people actually arenāt college students. Crazy, right?
Anybody in this forum isnāt a typical tech user.
I carry 3 laptops in my backpack (one for 8-5 job, one personal, and one for teaching night classes at the University) along with a foldable phone, a work phone, and e-ink notepad.
Between my 3 laptops, Rog Ally, 2 desktops, and some old laptops I keep around for media devices and network interfaces around the property, Iāve got like 10 Windows machines in my life.
But I also know Iām an outlier.
ooh! whatās the e-ink notepad, and whatās your usecase like?
it seems so appealing to just have a functionally infinite notebook on hand, but iāve yet to find one that could ACTUALLY replace a regular physical notebook for me.
Boox Tab Ultra C.
Itās a 10" color e-ink tablet that runs Android.
Donāt get the keyboard case for it - it sucks hard. Itās so thick it turns it into another laptop, it types terribly, and when folded backwards so you can write it still tries taking over from the pen.
Other than that I love it.
argh thatās literally the ONE that was tempting me, now I guess I GOTTA buy one! this sucks!
(thank you so much iāve wanted to buy this since it came out)
Have you told your therapist?
If you carry three laptops around you are definitely doing things wrong. There is no real world scenario where doing what you say you do needs 3 physical computers, and if you have a 9-5 AND teach night classes , you donāt have extra minutes to use your āpersonalā laptop that day, which leads me to call bull on the carry 3 laptops thing
The course I teach involves photo and video editing, which I do on my personal laptop for 2 reasons:
I can see it. My corporate work laptop is locked down with their security and monitoring software, so Iām not using it for personal things, even if it is allowed for some limited things. And thereās company resources that I can only access through the machines under their control, so I couldnāt ditch it either. And using that laptop for a second job would be a big no-no.
I can see the school laptop being similar, though my experience is that they tend to not be locked down quite as hard as the corporate machine, unless you do boneheaded things with it and piss off the schoolās IT department.
So I can see the need for a personal computer, plus itās always nice to keep that well separated to avoid things like incidents hooked up to a projector and screen sharing.
I used to think that Iād be glued to my PC forever, but ever since getting a foldable Iāve found that Iām no longer reliant on computers anymore for daily tasks. Plus thereās no point in eating up 300w of electricity during the summer (according to my watt meter), just to watch YouTube.
These days the only time I boot my PC is to play a game, search for a job, or make a large purchase. Iām a MilleniaI, so big purchases have to be done on the big computer. The phone is more than adequate for everything else. Itās not the 2010s anymore; phone screens are finally large enough now to replace a PC, and thereās an Android equivalent for almost everything a computer can do.
Programming? Nah. Itās a consumption device, not a creation device.
Run Vim in termux
Really aināt writing code in termux. I want an IDE. Why use a substandard device?
Iām not a programmer.
Yeah I used to think Iād always need a desktop, but these days I mostly only use my phone and laptop. And considering how small desktops are getting, I can only imagine the days of the traditional desktop are numbered.
Both
Windows isnāt only losing markershare to linux, but also to android and ios. That can be seen in the chart for all OSes, also available in that site:
gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share#monthly-201501ā¦
Itās also interesting to notice that linux is growing in that chart, which means that linux is really growing in popularity, and itās not just an effect of the desktop market possibly shrinking or something.
[joke] That must be my friendās laptop. [joke]
In my head itās like half a percent, 4.45% seems huge.
about 1/20 computers that browse the web run linux, thats pretty goofy
To what extent could it be acceptable?
Goofy like silly, not like unacceptable. Reckon all three of us are happy itās as high as it is!
4.45 is huge. 0.5 is normal sized.
Huge is just about 9 times the size of normal.
Are steamdecks getting counted in this?
Unknown
I had a discussion about this 1 months ago: beehaw.org/post/14768525 And decided not to bring it up again. :D
My argument is, from the eyes of the website you visit, the Steam Deck user would be identified as a desktop user. Thatās because the browser you are using (most likely Firefox) and the desktop environment (most likely KDE) in the Desktop mode would be seen as a desktop. In short, yes, I think Steam Deck would be counted, but only if people visit the pages in Desktop mode. So not all Steam Deck users are counted here.
Game mode doesnāt have a browser. I would be interested to find out of the steamdeck sales almost directly correlate to this increase. Not that I am complaining, itās a great way to use a linux desktop experience. I didnāt really read how these numbers were measured.
The other explanation I could think of is that linux desktop is being adopted widely in India. I donāt think that governmentās adopting linux desktop accounts for a significant portion of the machines.
Most likely. Steam decks are PCs.
My work laptop is windows and I hardly use it for anything personal. I just unplug the usb-c dock from it and plug it into my steam deck and use it as my desktop. Iāve done everything with it you can do on a computer.
I have been dual booting for some time now. Come back to windows 10 for gaming. But then I suddenly realize that the blizzard games that I play can run on Linux, and even from the same folder with the NTFS partition. I was stunned. No notable performance difference either.
I recently shows my mum that have an old Core 2 Duo that it can run Linux Mint. She said it works, and the computer shutdowns directly when I tell it to do. No more updating windows to wait for before unplugging the power cable. Still have to dual boot Windows 10 for Microsoft Office Word document compatibility and Google Picasa.
She also just have bought a new computer with Windows 11, could barely make it through the installation. So many questions and configuration needed to get rid of ads and popups in Edge. Need to evaluation Mint more before I try to dual boot it on this machine as well.
Orā¦ Just fuck off windows altogether?
There is a learning curve for old people. It takes time. So dual boot is a must until then.
This. It feels to me like driving a stick shift when youāve been using an automatic transmission for years. You have to do a little more fiddling but I honestly donāt mind learning a new OS that isnāt actively working against me.
With Windows . . . on the other hand . . . every time Iāve had to go āunder the hoodā (tweak Registry settings, Config files, etc) itās been to prevent Microsoft from doing something crappy to me.
Yes, with Windows it is a fight about disabling all the new stuff they come up with. Here, you must use OneDrive if you save a file. Here, lots of ads in the start menu, nothing is installed. Or here, please try copilot+ or bing. Do you want to set bing as your startup page? If you say no, we will ask you againā¦ A new windows update? Lets ask everything again.
It also doesnāt help that my dad still isnāt filly convinced Linux isnāt a virus/dangerous to my PC.
He is just afraid of learning new things. Best way here is to show him how it works. Learning.
Oh Iāve been trying. Heās tech adverse in general, so the concept of open source software scares him because it means trusting others with regards to tech.
If you want you can try OnlyOffice, it works really well as a replacement for Office. That is if you only use Word, Excel and Powerpoint. I even convinced some Windows people to use it as its free, open source, cross platform and perhaps even easier to use at this point.
For Picasa maybe digikam? It maybe isnāt a perfect replacement though. You could always try to run Picasa in a VM (or maybe even wine?)
Microsoft does not follow its own standard for doc and docx. Any other software tries to follow the standard, thus you can get different view of the document depending on what editor you use.
Picasa I think is easier to replace. Just need to relearn. Leaning towards Gwenview. VM is not an option, too complicated and slow for her. Picasa has been depricated for a long time now so it is time to move on.
Picasa? Thatās been google-bandoned for a while now. What does she use it for? Plenty of photo management tools in Linux. Darktable, Digikamā¦
If the office alternatives in linux donāt cut it, and she uses Office 365, you can run it in Linux as a PWA
Picasa because it had worked fine. And the replacement, Google photos, is not an option with storing everything in the cloud. Both Darktable and Digikam looks too advance. I think Gwenview will be a good fit. Will try later when she has the time to test. Just viewing the images in the folder, that is all that is needed.
It would be a good idea with the Office 365 but we donāt want things in the Cloud. If the PWA could run offline it would be a different story.
You might want to check out Libre Office. Itās document compatible with MS-Office and I think it comes pre-installed on Linux Mint.
Iām actually gearing up to convert all of my Windows machines to Linux once the updates for 10 stop coming. This will be especially easy once the new WINE gets integrated and the few windows game apps that I use can run well on Linux.
whatās the new wine?
www.howtogeek.com/wine-9-0-release/
Better to do it at least a few months before end off life just in case you need to move back for some reason. The alternative is Windows 11 which is very similar to Windows 10
nice
Best still rare even though potentially very user friendly and accessible.
Time for me to go FreeBSD i guess