The US has been involved in probably 300 regime changes throughout the world, has invaded many countries, including those that we were not affiliated with.

Absolutely fair point. I agree with you on this portion of your comment.

there is simply no meaningful response to this

no matter whether you think russia is justified in invading ukraine or not, if russians get banned from the kernel bc russia invaded ukraine, yankees have to get the boot as well

@lily33 @theunknownmuncher The best way we can help Ukraine is by removing outside influences from both sides. What is being portrayed as a war in Ukraine is really a proxy war between Russia and the US that was egged on by the US. This is most unwise given that both nations are armed to the teeth with nukes. We really should be looking at ways to de-escalate not escalate this war.

100% agree with you! Like I said, I don’t think we can hold all Russian people directly responsible for the actions of their government.

I wish for an ideal world where politics could stay out of Linux, but this is extremely tricky and cannot be treated black and white. Labeling things as “political” and then crying to keep “politics” out of things is often used as a weapon for exclusion, for example by sexuality or race, and I think exclusion should be anathema for Linux and open source projects.

The biggest help the west could’ve done for Ukraine was to fuck off when the Istanbul negotiations were happening two months into the war.

I think the general idea is to create as much drain on Russia as possible. Limit there ability to import and export good while creating brain drain and terrible moral.

How many Russians have defected at this point? Spoiler is a decent amount.

@yogthos @theunknownmuncher I am in the US and I realize this. There was a funny meme a while back about look how aggressive Russia is, they put their country all around our military bases. Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in that. What other country has military bases throughout the world?

Russia literally invaded everyone around them. Look at all the former USSR counties.

The US has been involved in a lot of places but that’s not a justification for Russia attacking its neighborhood.

It’s a little unclear what you mean, like because more than half a million Russian soldiers have already been killed so far and yet the war keeps going, that the people must be responsible for supporting?

Russia is conscripting, so most are not there by choice but required by law. If you draft dodge and get caught, you go to prison, and still just end up on the frontline anyway, since they are emptying their prisons to use as soldiers, too. And these people will be shot and killed by their own side if they attempt a retreat, while fed propaganda and misinformation about their treatment if they surrender. There has been significant human trafficking to support their war effort. They’ve also depended heavily on mercenary forces outside of their military in order to have skilled soldiers, and are now even receiving soldiers from North Korea in order to continue fighting.

Besides that, there are so many factors that go into why a person would decide to join the military and in reality, they are usually economic ones or from extensive propaganda.

1. NATO Expansion: The argument that NATO’s eastward expansion “provoked” Russia is often linked to Gorbachev’s 1990 talks with Western leaders. However, this promise was tied to Germany’s unification, not a blanket prohibition on expansion. And importantly eastern european countries sought NATO membership because of their historical (and justified) fears of Russian imperialism (a dynamic Marxists should understand as nations seeking sovereignty free from external dominance.)

2. Western Involvement in Ukraine: The U.S. supporting a regime change in Ukraine in 2014 is thought to be imperialism. But ignores the agency of Ukrainians, who led the Maidan protests because of already existing deep dissatisfaction with Yanukovych’s corrupt, oligarchic regime and his pivot to Russia. Supporting popular uprisings against oligarchs should align with Marxist values even if “the West” has its own interests

3. The Role of Fascism in Ukraine: Yes, Ukraine has issues with far-right groups like so many countries but exaggerating their influence as a justification for invasion serves to divert attention from Russia’s own reactionary politics. Far-right elements in Ukraine do not define the country’s political landscape, nor do they justify imperial aggression from another state. Russia has its own history of fostering right-wing authoritarianism.

4. Minsk Agreements: While the West" and Ukraine could be criticized for their handling of the Minsk agreements, Russia also violated these accords by continuing support for the separatists. Both sides share blame for the failure of Minsk, but it doesn’t make Russia’s invasion justified. Ukrainians didn’t provoke a full-scale invasion; they were defending their sovereignty.

5. NATO as a “Defensive” Alliance: Criticism of NATO’s imperialistic behavior is fair its actions in places like Libya show it isn’t 100% defensive. But in this case, NATO’s expansion was driven by countries seeking security from a historically imperialist power. Ukraine wasn’t “provoking” Russia by wanting self-determination; it was trying to secure its future.

You’re trying to push this “Actuall, but Ukraine DID provoke” narrative by mixing in unverified, ideologically biased material with references that are legitimate, but isolated incidents. Like linking far-right activity to justify the war conveniently ignores Russia’s (I should probably say everyone’s) own far-right issues. Marxists should reject imperialism in all its forms, including Russia’s actions in Ukraine.

Question: do you believe in the self-determination of Ukrainians?

Never ask a dronie how gullible they are, they’ll tell you.

And never ask why the US has over 800 external military bases, while all other countries combined have less than 20.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/d38b4d3d-4e16-44cc-96cd-c0e13ba9cf1a.jpeg">

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/c8e56c00-5bcb-4b30-9ab4-d268f5fc17f7.png">

🥱

<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/317614da-e243-4fcc-9278-374e6a950174.jpeg">

Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: blatant russian nazi acct

You see the Russians are the real Nazis, not the Banderites who attacked Eastern Ukrainians for the decade before this war started.

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Putin is a despot trying to make his mark on history. No amount of appeasement from the global West would have stopped him from ordering the invasion.

I’m all for sanctioning them too. Economic sanctions are the bare minimum we should be doing to genocidal authoritarians.

@JWBananas @secret300 Yea you know the funny thing about that, CFC's are heavy and tend to sink to the ground if not propelled into the stratosphere by rockets, say like the old Space Shuttle with it's solid chlorine oxidizer boosters, or the various military missiles which mostly have been converted to liquid hydrogen and oxygen engines. But nah we got to spend $3k to replace our A/C because it contains CFC's that never would have made it up into the atmosphere anyway because of you know, physics, little things like gravity, so the military can avoid blame.

@princessnorah @secret300 A shame people can't be more civilized. Really I don't think we've evolved all that much in spite of our technology.

If I recall correctly Russia is not allowed to participate because of their state doping program not because of their politics. So unless there was an Israel state doping program discovered that’s not double standard.

Western chauvinism:

the imperial core == the rest of the world

You may not have noticed that most of the world is ignoring the international rules-based order’s sanctions. And not only almost all of the Global South, which represents ~85% of the world’s people and the bulk of the world’s production* and natural resources. Even many Global North countries are skirting their own sanctions to trade with Russia.

The Global North is largely sanctioning itself, and Europe is paying a very high price for it. In particular high energy prices, which is eroding their industrial base even more.

*Since the Global North in its infinite wisdom de-industrialized itself.

and what do random developers have to do with a war between oligarchies? are we banning the dirty us imperialists next, because they do more damage than russia ever will?

or are we finding a negative thing about every nationality and ban international opensource collaboration entirely?

or, and hear me out on this one, the individual programmers making linux and 90% of the internet happen might not be fascists regardless of what shitty government reingns their lives?

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International economic sanctions? He said that.

Allegiance is another thing. Russian citizens unfortunately are subject to Russian law and the influence of the agencies.

Maintainer is more than a contributer in that it is a position of trust, which is called into question when they and their computer systems are subject to a belligerent governments jurisdiction.

🤡

He’s retired, what vested interest do you think he has. You think he gets money for talking about the working conditions at MS, I bet MS would really rather him not talk about what it’s like at the company even if he is careful not to spill secrets. They don’t discuss that stuff themselves for reasons ya know.

This is like a whole new level of Linux cope here, trying to argue that a guy who is retired has is pushing an agenda to help Microsoft despite not working there anymore and being retired all because he says things about the shitty open source development structure you don’t like.

you’re preaching to the choir here; my fault for not including the sarcasm/snark tag.

@possiblylinux127 @BobGnarley One would hope there are enough checks and balances such a major opensource project as Linux to keep malware out of the kernel regardless of who contributes to it, but we do there have been some instances where that was not the case.

I see the evolution of the Internet as humanity growing a nervous system, and anything that gets in the way of that as negative.

Neither is Canada. It’s full of occupying settlers, for example.

Nope, they’re an oligarchy, pretty much like the US.

@Auli @0x0 Neither is the US,Australia,New Zealand,France,the UK, or pretty much anywhere else, maybe India, in any practical sense.

As I wrote: sanctions. That’s what compliance means.

Considering the US foreign policy and the impact it has on the world, regardless of whether the white house is R or D, i propose to ban all american devs… preemptively, ya know?

Benefit of the Doubt…

Would you say that Linux contributors with ties to MIT and other US universities that get funding from the same organizations of the MIC and intelligence racket are suspect? No? Yeah just Russians. Cold War propaganda chugging little twerp

You need that reddit.world or shitty.twerks URL to really sell the bit and make the tone indicator necessary IMHO

@0x0 @9point6 That's my take and the universal betterment of mankind that results will bring people closer together. You might even realize someone not sharing your viewpoint is just as human.

Politics is not just the relationship between two people, it’s the relationship between a person and everyone/everything else in the world.

Reducto ad absurdum: would you suggest a world where every country is at war with everyone else would foster a better environment for global FOSS collaboration than one where the world was at complete peace?

I honestly thought the statement you quoted was entirely uncontroversial. “Healthy” and “global” being the key words, I’m not saying it’s a requirement for FOSS to exist in general or anything.

40,000 years ago

See: the FOSS higs that all flipped out when contributor agreements with codes of conduct like “don’t be homophobic or racist” started popping up.

It was quite a struggle and there is still a large old guard that simply refuses to move on it.

Fantastic to hear! wonderful news. Racists and Xenophobes will try to stop global collaboration, but the real conflict that matters will always be the smart vs the lowiq. FOSS is about humanity first and not any particular sub-category. Everyone who gets in the way is trying to divide and stop FOSS from saving the planet.

I wanna skirt by all the political stuff and ask what that text editor is?

I suppose any law in any jurisdiction you want to use it, don’t you think ?

Guys, are you all really that young to not remember alla the fuss with crypto software ? Same thing here: you want to distrubute something in a country, you need to follow the country’s law, even if they are stupid.

Fact is you know I am right, you just don’t have any principles. You seem baffled some people uphold principles.

No I’m getting error 500 when trying to upload a photo. So I linked an imgur of what I was trying to to reference. It’s from a Japanese baseball game they marketed in America.

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socially he’s not terrible but when the war drums come beating he’s stepping in line for the stars and stripes

Like pretty much every Finn would these days, really.

I know you are saying this is a bad thing but as an American I have no issues with it.

university of california

@griefstricken @chaogomu Seems to me, after the Stuxnet incident, any US claims of bad foreign actors are a bad case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Lol

Even Wikipedia, which is a shockingly bloodthirsty pro-NATO outlet, admits there is zero proof that a “Russian state actor” did this, there are just “western security experts” claiming it (as usual), and opinion is divided.

Well, I don’t think that a “[insert your preferred state] state actor” would ever coming out saying “yes, we tried to to it”.

Not to say that what Wikipedia say is false but on the other hand I am not sure how to check if it is true, in these cases.

Dont forget Iranian

@possiblylinux127 @griefstricken I was working on bringing up a lemmy instance here, but after seeing the typical lemmy users I think I shall abandon the project.

There is nothing stopping you from moving on

This guy was just telling me he couldn’t stand to see opinions that don’t mindlessly support sabotaging the Linux community. Now he says I should just move on? Weird.

That’s so cute that you think that anyone who doesn’t eat out of the hand of Google News is brainwashed by Putin. You’re such a critical thinker. Thank you for weighing in.

Actually the difference between me and people like you is I actually read what Washington and Kiev are saying about the war and have memory longer than a goldfish! Plus, I avoid search engines that have gone under heavy censorship since February 2022 by groups like Alliance to Secure Democracy. I have far more cogent criticism of the Russian government and their media, their central bank, and MOD than anyone like you, or most of the supporters of the SMO. Mainly that they let the west get away with a Nazi coup in Ukraine in 2014 and sat on their hands.

Of course support for the Ukrainians has nothing to do with western propaganda LOL, you have no choice whether America and its sub-imperial partners in Europe, Australia, Japan, and South Korea send supplies and funding to the Ukrainians. It doesn’t make any difference whether you buy the propaganda or not. These same thinks tanks that call for a war in Ukraine are now discovering that western industrial capacity cannot be restored and falls far short of doing anything other than delaying Ukraine losing.

The economic shock of the coronavirus pandemic has now rolled into the mass realignment caused by sanctioning Russia. Sanctions place a burden on all countries which are expected to abide by them. Outside of western countries which constitute 14% of the world population, people are ambivalent about the Anti Terrorist Operation Against Donbas Separatists entering year TEN, they only care about the western financial system being turned into a weapon against them.

In fact, even American vassals like Europe and Japan are becoming more cagey about war. It certainly is not inspiring the hardcore faction of the Taiwanese about war with China.

This was the wrong account, this is one that blocks everything and says nothing. Blocking and arguing go poorly together the way they work on here.

That’s interesting because I remember reading that in 2022. Meanwhile Zelensky is publicly threatening to deploy “3 secret weapons” which he apparently discussed behind closed doors with western leaders who are responding negatively to this pronouncement (indicating an unwillingness to escalate)

Let’s be for real, Russia could tac nuke a non NATO Eastern European country in response to whatever dual use weapons zelensky is talking about with a nuclear payload, and their chief worry would probably be the global backlash, not the threat of strategic nukes

Put down the washing machine memes and listen to the quieter admissions of Ukrainian soldiers. That’s how I saw them throwing civilian bodies into a pit, gloating, before editing 30 min later to claim they took it off a Russian phone (despite visible armbands). Morale is breaking down, conscription is failing versus the Russian mercenary and volunteer partial mobilization. There is no political change coming in Moscow.

@fruitycoder @griefstricken Yes MSNBC has been claiming this for oh the last two years.

Are they excluding contributions or maintainer status?

I’m not sure if you’re kidding, so I’ll just note that Finland and Iceland are NATO member states, and Finland is notoriously against Russian aggressions due to history.

@Allero @BCsven That was the point I was making when I suggest back to Finland or perhaps Iceland or Switzerland.

the foundation should have moved long ago but I think Linus’ personal adoration of the US is going to get in the way of that.

i don’t know what exactly was in question in the kernel, that the lawyers had to worry about, but From EAR rules… “note that open source software can still be subject to export control measures if it includes technologies or functionalities that are regulated. In such cases, specific controls may be applied to prevent the unauthorized export of these technologies or functionalities.”

IF something was deemed controlled, it makes sense to pull it so kernel can ship anywhere, and whomever received it can do their own tweaks

I do agree that quality control should catch things, but we are all human and we don’t catch a 100%. So if quality control is flooded with too much things to catch, the chance of one slipping by increases.

Also, a lot of FOSS is based on volenteers, do we just ask those people to put in more hours? Who is responsible anyways if something makes it through and actually causes damage to something or someone?

I find the decision quite reasonable. You at least filter out the party most likely to pull something shady. We should still be very careful, but it takes away some the work.

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@vga @ChiefSinner That it was "aggression" in and of itself is a political belief.

The US is the most belligerent nation on earth, shall we ban american contributors? How about israeli?

Should their code be removed from the kernel?

The real question i haven’t seen answered is Who owns the kernel code. Torvalds owns the Linux™ but that’s to prevent others from buying it, but i was under the impression the source code is owned by all those who contribute to it and not whoever happens to be employing Torvalds at the time. Or is it a matter of where git.kernel.org happens to be hosted?

I’d suggest Codeberg but that’s in Germany, so maybe another forgejo instance hosted maybe in Switzerland.