TCB13@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 2024 22:00
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Yet another major release that fails do support basic Win32 APIs available since Windows 95 properly.
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dinckelman@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 2024 22:12
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Instead of leaving snide comments like this, you can use your head to open up an IDE, implement the features you want, and make a pull request. Keep it to yourself
maness300@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 2024 13:27
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Oh no, how dare he have higher standards!
drugo@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 2024 22:13
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âavailableâ
Cool, whereâs the code?
SomethingBurger@jlai.lu
on 16 Jan 2024 22:25
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Well, itâs out there, but Wine devs canât look at it.
Not without getting sued, no. But you could do a double blind on it. One person reads it and describes it in freeform prose, and another reads the prose then writes code to implement it as described. In the absence of documents describing the implementation details, this can sometimes work as it will avoid the copyright argument.
Still sketchy though, and youâd really have to verify isolation.
moonpiedumplings@programming.dev
on 17 Jan 2024 00:52
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youâd really have to verify isolation.
What if they live streamed the entire process, like on twitch?
Still difficult in another sense. The person who was reading the code live on twitch or whatever, could never in the future work on wine. Theyâd have to commit to long term seperation from the project.
(Plus, theyâd probably want to do it anonymously, since theyâve illegally obtained the source code.)
No one ever promised infinite compatibility forever. Itâs most certainly NOT a microshit product.
turbowafflz@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 2024 22:53
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Itâs a miracle we have wine at all, reverse engineering an entire operating system isnât easy. Be grateful for what we have (which is already enough to run a ton of software really well)
TCB13@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 2024 22:56
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Still ReactOS performs better in basic Win32 APIs⊠makes no sense.
AnonTwo@kbin.social
on 16 Jan 2024 23:04
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Hasn't ReactOS been accused of using code that was not reverse-engineered multiple times? If they became too big MS would probably just sue them.
What happened in the past was lazy developers cutting corners and effetely copying code and thinking that by switching a few variable names and the order of some operators they would get around the problem.
?? Historically it's been an issue where you need to prove you didn't do it, because otherwise the companies would bury you in legal fees trying to defend yourself. You're like...trying to argue an alternate universe to how this normally plays out.
natsume_shokogami@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 2024 23:36
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If you want some APIs implemented, make a feature request; you understand what you want
reverse engineering an entire operating system isnât easy
Have you noticed the the NT / Windows XP source code was leaked years ago. Thereâs isnât much of a need to âreverse engineeringâ, itâs just about reading their implementation and providing an alternative implementation that doesnât copy codeâŠ
Didnât companies have to set up ethics walls to protect against lawsuits for things like that?
What are you talking about? Thereâs copyright infringement that when you copy the leaked Windows source code into something like Wine or ReactOS and then thereâs reading it to understand what Microsoft did and coming up with an alternative implementation that will provide a compatible API for programs to use. Thereâs no âgray zoneâ or ethical BS - itâs either copied or not.
See the bit about examples and IBM. While you could probably look, the easiest way to defend against a giant tech companyâs legal team is to do the clean room setup
turbowafflz@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 2024 23:51
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TCB13@lemmy.world
on 17 Jan 2024 00:20
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Guess that rule was in place because some people would look at it and proceed to copy it. The rule should be âif you copy code from Microsoft youâll be kicked from the project and the code removedâ. While I see why this is place and what it protect the project from this is also a very big roadblock to the projectâs evolution and a clear example of whatâs wrong with it and why we still have compatibility issues.
Cqrd@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Jan 2024 01:22
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Nope, because if you write code and they can prove you were influenced by leaked proprietary code in any way then they will sue the shit out of you and shut you down.
Also see Halt and Catch Fire for a show with this as a plot point. Itâs very real though.
OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
on 17 Jan 2024 02:32
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Thatâs a lot of words to emphasize you donât understand copyright law
RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
on 17 Jan 2024 05:37
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Succinctly.
maness300@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 2024 13:26
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If only there were ways to subvert copyright lawâŠ
maness300@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 2024 13:26
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Lol.
Imagine shooting yourselves in the foot like this.
neo@lemmy.comfysnug.space
on 17 Jan 2024 02:03
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They are legally not allowed to touch it.
troyunrau@lemmy.ca
on 16 Jan 2024 23:11
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Too bad time isnât refundable. Free software is only free if you donât factor in the time you spend making it work.
troyunrau@lemmy.ca
on 16 Jan 2024 23:25
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Wow, youâre the most entitled user of free software Iâve met in a while. Just buy a windows license next time.
TCB13@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 2024 23:38
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Well at least Iâm not here perpetuating the delusion that desktop Linux desktop is as user-friendly and productive for every use-case as Windows and macOS are. If one lives in a bubble and doesnât to collaborate with others then native Linux apps might work and might even deliver a decent workflow. Once collaboration with Windows/Mac users is required then itâs game over â the âalternativesâ arenât just up to it.
Windows licenses are cheap and things work out of the box. Software runs fine, all vendors support whatever youâre trying to do and youâre productive from day zero. Sure, there are annoyances from time to time, but theyâre way fewer and simpler to deal with than the hoops youâve to go through to get a minimal and viable/productive Linux desktop experience.
It all comes down to a question of how much time (days? months?) you want to spend fixing things on Linux that simply work out of the box under Windows for a minimal fee. Buy a Windows license and spend the time you wouldâve spent dealing with Linux issues doing your actual job and youâll, most likely, get a better ROI.
Just buy a windows license next time.
Hereâs the thing, I can get a legit Windows license by various means. I donât need to go into microsoft.com and get it for 300$, a second hand windows machine with an old i5 CPU will sell for 50$ and that includes a valid Windows license. Computers selling on retail stores also include a Windows license, students can get them for free etc. what else?
Oh yes, I value and like Linux a LOT⊠just not for desktop as it doesnât deliver as everyone says it does. To be fair I believe that only someone who values Linux as much as I do would be comfortable to criticize whatâs wrong with it.
Well I canât spend all my time trying to fix ridiculous issues that wouldâve been fixed by now if people had the balls to look at Windows XP source codeâŠ
Guess not, weâre just wasting lemmyâs resources :P
lemmy_user_838586@lemmy.ml
on 17 Jan 2024 00:38
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Noo, keep going man, I got an apt-get error you need to waste time fixing for me
kurwa@lemmy.world
on 17 Jan 2024 05:16
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Youâre doing something worse, complaining about something that no one really does. The average Linux user doesnât want the average computer user to install Arch Linux. Stop spamming this garbage.
Well at least Iâm not here perpetuating the delusion that desktop Linux desktop is as user-friendly and productive for every use-case as Windows and macOS are.
Wait, are you saying Windows and macOS are user-friendly and productive for every use-case? Thatâs hilarious!
maness300@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 2024 13:28
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Since when is having standards being âentitledâ?
Just because something is free doesnât mean it has to be janky.
maness300@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 2024 13:27
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So true.
UnsavoryMollusk@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 2024 23:17
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Which one? Am curious since I worked with the winapi for a long time.
OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
on 17 Jan 2024 02:32
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Sorry, I missed the part where you submitted an MR
neo@lemmy.comfysnug.space
on 17 Jan 2024 02:03
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Then perhaps you can open a pull request?
SomethingBurger@jlai.lu
on 16 Jan 2024 22:26
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All modules that call a Unix library contain WoW64 thunks to enable calling the 64-bit Unix library from 32-bit PE code. This means that it is possible to
run 32-bit Windows applications on a purely 64-bit Unix installation. This is called the new WoW64 mode, as opposed to the old WoW64 mode where 32-bit applications run inside a 32-bit Unix process.
đŠđŠđŠ
henfredemars@infosec.pub
on 17 Jan 2024 00:03
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Come on Steam, show those 32-bit libs the door!
Not the political kind. The shared object kind.
VinesNFluff@pawb.social
on 18 Jan 2024 12:13
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Ok but now I am curious what the difference between 32 and 64 bit liberals would be
5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Jan 2024 13:10
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Since they have longer words, 64-bit liberals would be more intellectual than 32-bit liberals. 32-bit liberals also have a term limit in 14 years.
Letâs call it âsoonishâ. The old proton versions still need 32 bit libs if they do not backport the feature.
OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
on 17 Jan 2024 08:16
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Old Proton builds probably wonât backport this (unless itâs completely isolated, idk the code layout of Wine). But are old Proton builds still necessary? Occasionally thereâs regressions, but are there really any games that require like a 2 year old Proton build?
There are, but itâs complicated. Doom (2016) for instance - it doesnât handle the very large Vulkan swap chain thatâs possible on some modern graphics cards, crashes on start-up. Someone patched Proton around that time so that Doom would start; the patch was later reverted since it broke other games. Other games based off of that engine - couple of Wolfensteins, Doom Eternal - have the problem fixed in the binaries, and so run on up-to-date Proton, but depending on your hardware, only a few specific, old, versions of Proton, will do for Doom.
Regressions get fixed - thatâs okay. Buggy behaviour which depended on regressions that got fixed - thatâs a problem.
X86 to arm will become easier with this as box64 could handle everything now
CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml
on 18 Jan 2024 17:13
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Does this change run the 32-bit .exe using x86_64 instructions? From the description it just sounds like it allows 64-bit Linux libraries to be used in place of 32-bit ones, but that the Windows layer still operates in native 32-bit mode. This means there is still a need to emulate 32-bit x86 instructions which I donât think box64 can do at this time (x86_32 translates to arm32 with box86, x86_64 translates to arm64 with box64). If box86 could translate x86_32 to arm64 then this might work as Wine would handle the conversion between 32 and 64 bit addressing and argument passing into the libraries but Iâm not familiar with the inner workings there.
If you meant onlyoffice, then I think it promises better compatibility with ms office stuff and also itsinterface is closer to it, compared to libreoffice.
Collabora is a company, they funded some work on OnlyOffice which is a FOSS office suite like LibreOffice. I think they also worked on making it web hostable like Google docs (through nextcloud?)
Edit: Apparently now thereâs also collabora office suite?
OnlyOffice and LibreOffice are both very good. The former promises better compatibility with ms office files and has an easier interface imo. LibreOffice seems way more featureful
As for why fewer distros have onlyoffice in their repository, maybe because itâs relatively newer? Anyway, itâs available through flatpak and thatâs how I use it. I havenât tried Collabora online stuff
yianiris@kafeneio.social
on 18 Jan 2024 23:12
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Is abiword foss? It is the most reasonable of editors/wp I have found, LO gives me a headache looking at 1000 menus/items. The gtk2 version is stable as a rock, despite of some bad wrap it got last few years.
henfredemars@infosec.pub
on 17 Jan 2024 00:20
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How about this then. While your neighbors are using wine, it attracts more commercial attention to develop the open source projects that you do actually use. Itâs so impactful that you measurably benefit directly from its contributions, like optimizations to the Linux kernel.
You donât have to agree with it, but you cannot deny the increased investment in open source projects it causes.
For a painfully blatant example see: Steam Deck.
Also for the binary blob purists, how do you feel about all that closed source firmware underpinning your pure world? Isnât it practically impossible to get completely open source firmware down to the silicon? And even then, do you trust the silicon? Are you running everything on FPGAs?
Hi! âBinary blob puristâ here! Yes, it bothers us that so much firmware is proprietary, but we are working to fix that :).
It is possible to have fully free firmware on certain select devices.
The silicon is unchangeable, much like a chair is unchangeable. So being concerned about changing it isnât really productive. But, RISCV looks promising and a good remedy to the issue of not knowing what it does.
FPGAs would be nice but they arenât powerful enough yet.
But, at the same time, unless the silicon can make outside connections itself or modify behaviour (a la Intel ME), or has been updated with what is essentially software baked into it that can change itâs behaviour on the fly, Iâd say it can be trusted to do the computing you tell it to do and nothing more (again, excluding those processors where we know that it doesnât like those with the ME).
OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
on 17 Jan 2024 02:31
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Dunno fam, I like LAN partying 2001 games with old friends during our biannual meetups.
dandroid@dandroid.app
on 17 Jan 2024 02:47
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As a Linux gamer, I run just about everything in wine since proton uses wine.
I even run native games through Proton at this point since many native builds donât work properly.
dandroid@dandroid.app
on 17 Jan 2024 15:58
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I have done that before as well. I had a native game that randomly stopped working after a borked update or something. I downloaded the proton version instead, and it worked perfectly.
marlowe221@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 2024 03:50
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Honestly, I donât even try native versions (when they exist) for most games. I go straight to Proton or Lutris.
sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 2024 23:39
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Finally, a version that rhymes.
bitcrafter@programming.dev
on 17 Jan 2024 12:57
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A truly fantastic update for our times!
taladar@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jan 2024 13:37
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Wine is not an emulniner?
heartfelthumburger@sopuli.xyz
on 17 Jan 2024 06:19
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Finally, native Wayland support! Looking forward to when proton is updated with this. Good job to all the developers!
Confused_Emus@lemmy.world
on 17 Jan 2024 08:08
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Sorry if this is a dumb question, Iâm still very new to Linux. I have Wine 8 installed, currently just to run one application for one of my games. Should I bother to update to 9 if my current setup is working? Iâm still adjusting to the FOSS environment and havenât quite figured out whether or not I should always update to the latest and greatest just because I can.
mundane@feddit.nu
on 17 Jan 2024 08:18
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If it works and you are still figuring things out, I suggest not taking specific action right now. Use your package manager to keep your system up to date and it will deal with this in due time.
version_unsorted@lemmy.ml
on 17 Jan 2024 10:06
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A lot of the time the version of wine will cause issues with the application, so if you have something working, stick with it.
It would be worthwhile to look into a wine prefix manager like lutris or bottles for gaming. Regular apps can benefit also, but I am not up to speed on anything not for gaming.
Confused_Emus@lemmy.world
on 17 Jan 2024 19:20
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Thanks for the advice! The application Iâm using in Wine is Elite Dangerous Market Connector, nota game itself but a small helper app for the Elite Dangerous game. According to the git page, you can get it running from source with Python, but I wasnât quite skilled enough to get that working.
As far as my actual games go, those seem to all run fine through Steam/Heroic Games Launcher with Proton GE edition, which as I understand it incorporates Wine somehowâŠ? Iâm not sure of the specifics, but I assumed Wine in that context would get updated with Proton eventually.
Clearwater@lemmy.world
on 17 Jan 2024 19:39
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Since youâve got it running in wine just fine, I personally wouldnât change anything, but if you have issues in the future, you can try that.
Confused_Emus@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 2024 04:15
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Right, those are the instructions I tried to follow, but had issues in the ârunning from sourceâ process. I did eventually get it running, but Iâd get errors and nothing would work once I tried to start adding the plugins I wanted.
Confused_Emus@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 2024 16:19
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Ah, nifty. I may check that out then. Thanks!
FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
on 17 Jan 2024 13:17
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Ooo, native Wayland support, now only about half my software will be running through xwayland once Proton is updated as well.
azvasKvklenko@sh.itjust.works
on 19 Jan 2024 11:53
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Dont hold your breath. Itâs just initial support. Itâs still opt-in and I canât see Valve using it with Proton by default unless they start supporting native Wayland clients in Gamescope
kugmo@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jan 2024 20:29
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The fact that I donât have to deal with lib32-gst-plugins-ugly/bad/ect is amazing, but Iâll have to keep 32 bit libraries for Team Fortress 2 and other online Source games.
theangryseal@lemmy.world
on 18 Jan 2024 13:47
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Should I not be playing the native Linux version? Or am I just an idiot who doesnât understand how the game works?
kugmo@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Jan 2024 15:32
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Pretty sure TF2âs VAC only works on the Linux version, otherwise it kicks you out when you try to join a match.
cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 18 Jan 2024 12:18
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threaded - newest
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Yet another major release that fails do support basic Win32 APIs available since Windows 95 properly.
đđđ
Instead of leaving snide comments like this, you can use your head to open up an IDE, implement the features you want, and make a pull request. Keep it to yourself
Oh no, how dare he have higher standards!
âavailableâ
Cool, whereâs the code?
Well, itâs out there, but Wine devs canât look at it.
Not without getting sued, no. But you could do a double blind on it. One person reads it and describes it in freeform prose, and another reads the prose then writes code to implement it as described. In the absence of documents describing the implementation details, this can sometimes work as it will avoid the copyright argument.
Still sketchy though, and youâd really have to verify isolation.
What if they live streamed the entire process, like on twitch?
Still difficult in another sense. The person who was reading the code live on twitch or whatever, could never in the future work on wine. Theyâd have to commit to long term seperation from the project.
(Plus, theyâd probably want to do it anonymously, since theyâve illegally obtained the source code.)
No one ever promised infinite compatibility forever. Itâs most certainly NOT a microshit product.
Itâs a miracle we have wine at all, reverse engineering an entire operating system isnât easy. Be grateful for what we have (which is already enough to run a ton of software really well)
Still ReactOS performs better in basic Win32 APIs⊠makes no sense.
Hasn't ReactOS been accused of using code that was not reverse-engineered multiple times? If they became too big MS would probably just sue them.
From what Iâve heard they used some assembly code directly for very low level functions.
As if the Windows XP source code wasnât leaked alreadyâŠ
That's...not a legal excuse.
In fact that';s an open and shut end to a project if you're caught doing it.
As long as you donât copy codeâŠ
Itâs enough that you have read the code before implementing an alternative to get into legal trouble.
Good luck proving that.
Itâs happened in the past and is easier than you might think.
What happened in the past was lazy developers cutting corners and effetely copying code and thinking that by switching a few variable names and the order of some operators they would get around the problem.
?? Historically it's been an issue where you need to prove you didn't do it, because otherwise the companies would bury you in legal fees trying to defend yourself. You're like...trying to argue an alternate universe to how this normally plays out.
If you want some APIs implemented, make a feature request; you understand what you want
Unrelated but everytime you end a sentence with an ellipsis I imagine someoneâs nerdy youtube rantsona with their arms crossed and a sly grin
Have you noticed the the NT / Windows XP source code was leaked years ago. Thereâs isnât much of a need to âreverse engineeringâ, itâs just about reading their implementation and providing an alternative implementation that doesnât copy codeâŠ
That sounds difficult though. Didnât companies have to set up ethics walls to protect against lawsuits for things like that?
What are you talking about? Thereâs copyright infringement that when you copy the leaked Windows source code into something like Wine or ReactOS and then thereâs reading it to understand what Microsoft did and coming up with an alternative implementation that will provide a compatible API for programs to use. Thereâs no âgray zoneâ or ethical BS - itâs either copied or not.
Ah the term I was looking for was âclean roomâ
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design
See the bit about examples and IBM. While you could probably look, the easiest way to defend against a giant tech companyâs legal team is to do the clean room setup
Well, since itâs so easy, go do it.
Paragraph «Donât», bullet point number 3: Donât look at any Microsoft source code. wiki.winehq.org/Clean_Room_Guidelines
Guess that rule was in place because some people would look at it and proceed to copy it. The rule should be âif you copy code from Microsoft youâll be kicked from the project and the code removedâ. While I see why this is place and what it protect the project from this is also a very big roadblock to the projectâs evolution and a clear example of whatâs wrong with it and why we still have compatibility issues.
Nope, because if you write code and they can prove you were influenced by leaked proprietary code in any way then they will sue the shit out of you and shut you down.
Also see Halt and Catch Fire for a show with this as a plot point. Itâs very real though.
Thatâs a lot of words to emphasize you donât understand copyright law
Succinctly.
If only there were ways to subvert copyright lawâŠ
Lol.
Imagine shooting yourselves in the foot like this.
They are legally not allowed to touch it.
Ask for a refund
Too bad time isnât refundable. Free software is only free if you donât factor in the time you spend making it work.
Wow, youâre the most entitled user of free software Iâve met in a while. Just buy a windows license next time.
Well at least Iâm not here perpetuating the delusion that desktop Linux desktop is as user-friendly and productive for every use-case as Windows and macOS are. If one lives in a bubble and doesnât to collaborate with others then native Linux apps might work and might even deliver a decent workflow. Once collaboration with Windows/Mac users is required then itâs game over â the âalternativesâ arenât just up to it.
Windows licenses are cheap and things work out of the box. Software runs fine, all vendors support whatever youâre trying to do and youâre productive from day zero. Sure, there are annoyances from time to time, but theyâre way fewer and simpler to deal with than the hoops youâve to go through to get a minimal and viable/productive Linux desktop experience.
It all comes down to a question of how much time (days? months?) you want to spend fixing things on Linux that simply work out of the box under Windows for a minimal fee. Buy a Windows license and spend the time you wouldâve spent dealing with Linux issues doing your actual job and youâll, most likely, get a better ROI.
Hereâs the thing, I can get a legit Windows license by various means. I donât need to go into microsoft.com and get it for 300$, a second hand windows machine with an old i5 CPU will sell for 50$ and that includes a valid Windows license. Computers selling on retail stores also include a Windows license, students can get them for free etc. what else?
.
Oh yes, I value and like Linux a LOT⊠just not for desktop as it doesnât deliver as everyone says it does. To be fair I believe that only someone who values Linux as much as I do would be comfortable to criticize whatâs wrong with it.
.
Well I canât spend all my time trying to fix ridiculous issues that wouldâve been fixed by now if people had the balls to look at Windows XP source codeâŠ
.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/68158a59-d3e5-45b5-8d29-d74c07b085f4.webp">
Câmon, keep doing it!
Guess not, weâre just wasting lemmyâs resources :P
Noo, keep going man, I got an apt-get error you need to waste time fixing for me
Youâre doing something worse, complaining about something that no one really does. The average Linux user doesnât want the average computer user to install Arch Linux. Stop spamming this garbage.
Wait, are you saying Windows and macOS are user-friendly and productive for every use-case? Thatâs hilarious!
Since when is having standards being âentitledâ?
Just because something is free doesnât mean it has to be janky.
So true.
Which one? Am curious since I worked with the winapi for a long time.
Sorry, I missed the part where you submitted an MR
Then perhaps you can open a pull request?
đŠđŠđŠ
Come on Steam, show those 32-bit libs the door!
Not the political kind. The shared object kind.
Ok but now I am curious what the difference between 32 and 64 bit liberals would beSince they have longer words, 64-bit liberals would be more intellectual than 32-bit liberals. 32-bit liberals also have a term limit in 14 years.
So in the future no need to install 32 bit packages of wine in a 64 system??? đ
Correcto. Which means Steam will probably drop 32 bit libs soon. Which means Ubuntu will stop shipping 32 libs. The era is truly coming to an end
Letâs call it âsoonishâ. The old proton versions still need 32 bit libs if they do not backport the feature.
Old Proton builds probably wonât backport this (unless itâs completely isolated, idk the code layout of Wine). But are old Proton builds still necessary? Occasionally thereâs regressions, but are there really any games that require like a 2 year old Proton build?
There are, but itâs complicated. Doom (2016) for instance - it doesnât handle the very large Vulkan swap chain thatâs possible on some modern graphics cards, crashes on start-up. Someone patched Proton around that time so that Doom would start; the patch was later reverted since it broke other games. Other games based off of that engine - couple of Wolfensteins, Doom Eternal - have the problem fixed in the binaries, and so run on up-to-date Proton, but depending on your hardware, only a few specific, old, versions of Proton, will do for Doom.
Regressions get fixed - thatâs okay. Buggy behaviour which depended on regressions that got fixed - thatâs a problem.
quite a few games need old proton IME
not many, but enough to make a difference.
What does this have to do with rust?
X86 to arm will become easier with this as box64 could handle everything now
Does this change run the 32-bit .exe using x86_64 instructions? From the description it just sounds like it allows 64-bit Linux libraries to be used in place of 32-bit ones, but that the Windows layer still operates in native 32-bit mode. This means there is still a need to emulate 32-bit x86 instructions which I donât think box64 can do at this time (x86_32 translates to arm32 with box86, x86_64 translates to arm64 with box64). If box86 could translate x86_32 to arm64 then this might work as Wine would handle the conversion between 32 and 64 bit addressing and argument passing into the libraries but Iâm not familiar with the inner workings there.
Thanks for correction, not everything, but more
codeweavers the true gigachad of Linux
they managed to make their anti-microsoft crusade a sustainable and profitable venture
Heavy: killing you is full-time job now!
Them and also collabora seem to be doing an amazing job!
difference between collabora anf libreoffice?
If you meant onlyoffice, then I think it promises better compatibility with ms office stuff and also itsinterface is closer to it, compared to libreoffice.
wait does collobora do more than onlyoffice? and if so why do many linux distribuitions pack libreofficd and not onlyoffice
Maybe thereâs some confusion here.
Collabora is a company, they funded some work on OnlyOffice which is a FOSS office suite like LibreOffice. I think they also worked on making it web hostable like Google docs (through nextcloud?)
Edit: Apparently now thereâs also collabora office suite?
OnlyOffice and LibreOffice are both very good. The former promises better compatibility with ms office files and has an easier interface imo. LibreOffice seems way more featureful
As for why fewer distros have onlyoffice in their repository, maybe because itâs relatively newer? Anyway, itâs available through flatpak and thatâs how I use it. I havenât tried Collabora online stuff
Is abiword foss?
It is the most reasonable of editors/wp I have found, LO gives me a headache looking at 1000 menus/items.
The gtk2 version is stable as a rock, despite of some bad wrap it got last few years.
@fossphi @jackpot
Wine nine you say? đ§
Wine-ine-oh
They should have code-named this release âBrooklynâ.
WINE NINE!
There is nothing "worth" running in wine, but it is good to know it exists, just to spite those choosing binary blobs.
@mr_MADAFAKA
How about this then. While your neighbors are using wine, it attracts more commercial attention to develop the open source projects that you do actually use. Itâs so impactful that you measurably benefit directly from its contributions, like optimizations to the Linux kernel.
You donât have to agree with it, but you cannot deny the increased investment in open source projects it causes.
For a painfully blatant example see: Steam Deck.
Also for the binary blob purists, how do you feel about all that closed source firmware underpinning your pure world? Isnât it practically impossible to get completely open source firmware down to the silicon? And even then, do you trust the silicon? Are you running everything on FPGAs?
Hi! âBinary blob puristâ here! Yes, it bothers us that so much firmware is proprietary, but we are working to fix that :).
It is possible to have fully free firmware on certain select devices.
The silicon is unchangeable, much like a chair is unchangeable. So being concerned about changing it isnât really productive. But, RISCV looks promising and a good remedy to the issue of not knowing what it does.
FPGAs would be nice but they arenât powerful enough yet.
But, at the same time, unless the silicon can make outside connections itself or modify behaviour (a la Intel ME), or has been updated with what is essentially software baked into it that can change itâs behaviour on the fly, Iâd say it can be trusted to do the computing you tell it to do and nothing more (again, excluding those processors where we know that it doesnât like those with the ME).
Dunno fam, I like LAN partying 2001 games with old friends during our biannual meetups.
As a Linux gamer, I run just about everything in wine since proton uses wine.
I even run native games through Proton at this point since many native builds donât work properly.
I have done that before as well. I had a native game that randomly stopped working after a borked update or something. I downloaded the proton version instead, and it worked perfectly.
Honestly, I donât even try native versions (when they exist) for most games. I go straight to Proton or Lutris.
Finally, a version that rhymes.
A truly fantastic update for our times!
Wine is not an emulniner?
Finally, native Wayland support! Looking forward to when proton is updated with this. Good job to all the developers!
Sorry if this is a dumb question, Iâm still very new to Linux. I have Wine 8 installed, currently just to run one application for one of my games. Should I bother to update to 9 if my current setup is working? Iâm still adjusting to the FOSS environment and havenât quite figured out whether or not I should always update to the latest and greatest just because I can.
If it works and you are still figuring things out, I suggest not taking specific action right now. Use your package manager to keep your system up to date and it will deal with this in due time.
A lot of the time the version of wine will cause issues with the application, so if you have something working, stick with it.
It would be worthwhile to look into a wine prefix manager like lutris or bottles for gaming. Regular apps can benefit also, but I am not up to speed on anything not for gaming.
Thanks for the advice! The application Iâm using in Wine is Elite Dangerous Market Connector, nota game itself but a small helper app for the Elite Dangerous game. According to the git page, you can get it running from source with Python, but I wasnât quite skilled enough to get that working.
As far as my actual games go, those seem to all run fine through Steam/Heroic Games Launcher with Proton GE edition, which as I understand it incorporates Wine somehowâŠ? Iâm not sure of the specifics, but I assumed Wine in that context would get updated with Proton eventually.
As a heads up, EDMC runs natively on Linux well, or at least it did the last time I used it. See github.com/EDCD/âŠ/Installation-&-Setup#linux-âŠ
Since youâve got it running in wine just fine, I personally wouldnât change anything, but if you have issues in the future, you can try that.
Right, those are the instructions I tried to follow, but had issues in the ârunning from sourceâ process. I did eventually get it running, but Iâd get errors and nothing would work once I tried to start adding the plugins I wanted.
.
o7 Fly dangerously!
There appears to be a flatpak for edmc, maybe that would be easier than using wine?
flathub.org/apps/io.edcd.EDMarketConnector
Ah, nifty. I may check that out then. Thanks!
Ooo, native Wayland support, now only about half my software will be running through xwayland once Proton is updated as well.
Dont hold your breath. Itâs just initial support. Itâs still opt-in and I canât see Valve using it with Proton by default unless they start supporting native Wayland clients in Gamescope
The fact that I donât have to deal with lib32-gst-plugins-ugly/bad/ect is amazing, but Iâll have to keep 32 bit libraries for Team Fortress 2 and other online Source games.
Should I not be playing the native Linux version? Or am I just an idiot who doesnât understand how the game works?
Pretty sure TF2âs VAC only works on the Linux version, otherwise it kicks you out when you try to join a match.
linda belcher alrightttttttt