KDE Goes and Does It (Double-Click By Default, That Is) - OMG! Linux
(www.omglinux.com)
from AnActOfCreation@programming.dev to linux@lemmy.ml on 02 Feb 2024 01:09
https://programming.dev/post/9442063
from AnActOfCreation@programming.dev to linux@lemmy.ml on 02 Feb 2024 01:09
https://programming.dev/post/9442063
- KDE Plasma 6 will require users to double-click on files and folders to open them by default.
- This change is controversial for those familiar with single-click behavior in KDE Plasma.
- Click behavior in KDE Plasma 6 is configurable, allowing users to choose between single-click and double-click.
This is one of the first things I always tweak in KDE, so I love this change, but I’m curious how others feel.
threaded - newest
Single click is for web page links, not my computer.
Way too easy to accidentally run a program with single click
It should throw up a prompt to ask, if you really want to run it. You might have disabled that…
You mean… a prompt that needs a second click to run the program?
Yes, mine does that. Files open with one click, programs need confirmation.
That seems more like and accessibility feature, like what someone with a muscle spasm disorder would find helpful.
I mean, yeah, muscle spasm disorder or my dumb ass absent-mindedly opening files in my download folder or Jester from HR, who doesn’t know that a job application shouldn’t have the executable icon. For all of us, it improves accessibility, because we don’t need to be as cautious anymore.
Ransomware in Windows:
You need to allow macros to read this job application
Ransomware in Linux:
You need to run chmod +x application.ods.sh to read this job application
that reminds me of the albanian virus
<img alt="" src="https://www.kuppingercole.com/pics/albanianvirus.png">
It cuts in half the average number of clicks when navigating the file manager. Accessibility or not, it’s a welcome change imo.
I think you’re not following along here. One click was the default, they’re changing it from that to two clicks by default.
I’m not referring to the default - (manually) changing it to a single click is a good thing.
I appreciate the joke, but well, yes. The difference being that it’s only for executables and you need to do click-move-click rather than the usual double-click, so it’s even harder to accidentally trigger.
I’d be okay with a compromise like single click for folders, double click for files
That’s inconsistent though and possibly worse than either other option (but better than single click files double click folders at least, yeesh)
No it isn’t. It just doesn’t happen.
Joke’s on you, I run Nix, the program won’t even start unless I steam-run it
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not really, just set to “always ask” or when opening an executable.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4a3e8fa9-f75d-445b-88dc-a0b698b71ed2.png">
Which is just another, less convenient way of turning a single click into two, no?
no, because it only applies to executables.
idk about you, but I only run executables from dolphin once every full moon, or so. And even if it was frequently, it doesn’t come close to the number of folders I open that only need a single click.
I guess it depends on habits, then. I use them all the time. Not as much as folders, but enough that I would rather the 2 have the same behavior.
Right. I use a proper launcher for anything I execute constantly - like Gnome shell or KRunner on KDE. Scripts I usually run in the terminal to see their output. So it’s really rare for me to run anything by clicking on it using Dolphin.
You’re not running executables from a file manager very often with Linux
… I am, though.
I’m talking about the typical user. There shouldn’t be a need for them to be doing that.
Exactly. I never need to select a link on the web to do things like rename or move them, while I do that with files all the time
Maybe the KDE devs were expecting you to do file management using the keyboard only. Or maybe they thought that linux users aren’t technical enough that they would ever consider organizing their files. Just dumb it all on the desktop and call it a day, amarite?
This + some other quirks are what have kept me off KDE for a good while. I understand wanting to do things differently, possibly easier – but it’s hard to break old habits.
What DE do you use?
So instead of changing to double click from the settings, you switched DEs?
It’s not so crazy. Most people choose a DE for the defaults
I’m sorry, but this to me, sounds insane and kind of lazy. You can’t go to the settings and make a couple of changes??? People really can’t do that?
It may mean the user doesn’t think their use is similar enough to the people who make the distro/DE, or trust the distro makers’ decision making ability.
If a distros’ makers think snaps are a good idea, or that the distro shouldn’t by default show available security updates, or have a UI that hides how many open instances there are of a program unless you hover over an icon, or hides the titles of those open programs, or hides panels; then the way I use a PC is too different from the way they do - and there are likely more things in the background that we disagree with which can’t as easily be changed like UI settings.
I’m a single click person, but I welcome this change. Those who like single click already know where to change it. This is good for new users.
It makes file system navigation much faster and more pleasant imo, I’m definitely reverting this.
How do you select without executing?
There's a little + that you can click on the icons.
Or, you can use the keyboard arrows and spacebar.
Not sure if there's others.
Edit: Just found another one actually. Middle-clicking selects without opening.
This works better than the little + on the icons because the + behaves like a "ctrl-click."
I haven’t tried it but if it works the same as a mobile OS you long click to select. Single click to execute.
Edit: apparently that’s not how it works. There is a checkbox on every icon that you have to click directly on the check box to select/unselect.
I wish a long click worked on desktop though…
CTRL + Click
I’ve always used the little plus sign on icons. It’s ingrained into my brain. I even did the same on windows before switching to Linux 6 years ago. Single click and the little check box on Windows.
Its funny, I single click in KDE since 3.X or when ever it was introduced. But I never really used the check boxes.
personally, I don’t like the plus icons (I’d prefer it if they were simple checkboxes), so any one of:
Doubt you’ll have to revert this. I don’t think they switch you back to defaults when updating.
If it wasn’t default, I likely would have never tried single click, which I prefer now.
I could’ve sworn I already double click in Dolphin.
Some distributions that ship with KDE have that option set out of the box for you already.
That must be it then. I’m on Fedora 39 KDE Spin.
lol same here on F39 KDE. I was wondering "wait was that a setting i changed?" I haven't used KDE on another distro in a real long time
So be it. I don’t understand why there is so much debate around such simple setting.
Same reason we debate how to pronounce GIF (it’s pronounced gif, I’ll have you know) or what toppings to put on pizza. Because it’s entertaining for some, no matter how grating it may get for others.
People will be damned if…
My parents found single-click much more intuitive, because everything else (web browser, phone) uses single-click.
My parents still double click everything on their mobile…
That’s hilarious lol
Oh that makes so much sense. I was wondering why single-click would ever be default.
EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW. In the the next issue of Linux Magazine Torvalds talks about the new default in the single click behavior of Plasma: “KDE, fuck you”
It would be a much longer insult of course
As someone who hasn’t touched KDE in years, can someone fill me in: How did you previously select a folder without opening it?
Snark aside, this is probably a more common solution than using Ctrl-click or clicking the tiny “+” icon as was intended.
There’s a symbol at the top left of the file or directory icon to select the item rather than open. It’s stays there even if you have double click to open
Control + Left click
Drag a selection box around it, or use ctrl. Or right click.
If you have a list, click on the item to open, click next to it to select.
Single click was always the first setting I changed.
Ah yes… I remember when IE 4 came to Windows and introduced single clicking. What a terrible idea.
Don’t worry, apps are so slow that we don’t risk repeating the same problem of double-clicking causing the first click to open the app and the second click to do something in the app that you didn’t want to do.
Is this a change I’m too “command line” to care about?
Um, I just switched from gnome to plasma about three or four months ago. I don’t keep anything at all in my desktop I didn’t realize that it was single click.
It would apply to files and folders in Dolphin (file explorer) as well.
I’m also always changing this first, so i agree with the change.
When I first switched to KDE, this issue took up roughly 15 seconds of my time as I saw what was happening and went exploring for the setting to change the behavior. Apart from having to change the setting again from time to time, I have spent exactly zero seconds thinking about it and exactly zero seconds wondering which approach was the “best” since then. I wonder how honest it is for this site to refer to a “debate”; it’s hard for me to imagine anyone giving a shit beyond setting their own system up the way they like it.
I mean, this is the Internet
Yes; my post is obliquely suggesting that people are ridiculous.
I used kubuntu for an year on an old ProBook and I just assumed that the trackpad buttons were broken and sent a double click.
I discovered this issue only today lol
KDE is an open source desktop environment. If we didn’t debate how to make the UI/UX as intuitive as possible, the project would be dead in the water. The entire Libre movement is built on debating how software should work, and then making it work that way.
You don’t have to contribute, but don’t throw shade at the people who do.
Equating a debate over the default behavior of mouse clicks—behavior that can be changed in ten seconds—with the very essence of the free software movement is so comically misguided as to be downright sad.
It’s not a holy war issue for me, but it is the first thing I change when I’m on a fresh KDE system. While I haven’t had any angst about it, I’m selfishly happy for the change. I realize there’s just a different group of people who will now have to make the opposite adjustment, but dem’s da brakes.
And, I have to admit it might be less likely to throw off someone coming from Windows defaults.
My problem with it: It was not consistent when using KDE:
In Dolpin, it’s a single click…
When downloading something in Firefox and choosing the location, it’s a double click.
Firefox doesn’t use the KDE file picker by default. You can set
widget.use-xdg-desktop-portal.file-pickerto 1 to use the desktop environment’s native picker.wiki.archlinux.org/title/Firefox#KDE_integration
To be fair, even when both UI elements are both a part of Dolphin, the element shown when selecting files in a browser is different than a default Dolphin instance. In-browser you are selecting where to download a file, or what file to upload, and it is assumed that you don’t intend to open a file locally, so turning off single click in this instance is actually pretty intuitive.
Kinda disappointed actually. It’s in my top ten best features if KDE. Single click is so much faster and easier. No other OS has gotten this right.
As long as they dont take it away. But since most people now won’t know it’s there they are unlikely to find out just how great it is.
It’s great except when there’s no “white space” to easily do a drag select. Or I’m just an idiot and do it wrong.
In Dolphin, there is a “+” icon in the top right corner on hover for selection.
I use ctrl-click to select
My left hand is busy
Windows had it for ages
Windows single click never worked right. I don’t use the little check box or selection. I use both Windows and Linux, and windows stays in Double click even though I have been doing single on KDE since as long as I can remember.
I think it’s great. I think it’s impossible to use dolphin with single click since it goes into folders or starts files when clicking on them once.
Anyone knows the historic reason for single click? Plasma was inspired by some older system?
I think it was windows 98 that introduced “hovering on an item” = single click and single click = double click. Disabled by default of course
Oh god, I’d forgotten the dark days of windows UI introduced with the active desktop update
It was introduced by “Active Desktop”, which came with IE4. So if you installed IE4, you also got this on Windows 95.
Use the terminal mostly anyway, but navigating deeply nested folders when you have to double click is slightly annoying so I can see the appeal.
I don’t see why they can’t just have the folders behave differently.
Just make opening folders single click & executing/opening everything else double click.
That would annoy everyone. I like it.
Bash is superior, but if I’m going to use the UI I just use tree view in Dolphin so I can expand folders with a single-click while seeing the directory structure.
I could definitely be remembering wrong, but if I remember correctly there was a TechOverTea video by Brodie Robertson featuring Nicco Loves Linux aka Niccolo Venerandi where this topic came up in which there was the mention of I think something to do with carpal tunnel, and a weird drag-to-select bug or something.
My memory is a little hazy here.
They can change the default settings as long as they leave the option to change it available.
Shame that they gave in to the haters, single click is great. Far more intuitive too, as you’d immediately tell if you ever had to guide your parents around a computer constantly reminding them in which arbitrary situation you’re meant to double click and in which to single click.
I really don’t think it’s a matter of “haters”. It might be more logical and consistent if you have no other frames of reference, but most Plasma users come over from other OSs who all use double click (Windows, Mac, even Gnome). If a new user blindly tries KDE and keeps accidentally opening everything while trying to select it’s just an immediate and big annoyance. It’s not even clear that it isn’t a bug because there is no clear explanation of how to select and how to open.
Edit: we are of course all used to single clicking on touch screens, but there it is contrasted with the long press to see options and some “select mode” for file management. There is no system that works exactly like Plasma single-click, which makes it disorienting.
Honestly I just love that Plasma closely resembles the Windows 10/11 UI. Not that I like Windows, but because I have to deal with Windows from time to time.
Switching between Gnome UI and Windows 10/11 UI requires an effort to me. Switching betweek Plasma and Windows - almost no difference.
Plasma is fucking great!
Windows resembles the Plasma UI, not the other way around.
It’s funny, because the original KDE was definitely inspired by Windows, but Plasma has introduced enough new features before Windows now that it isn’t inaccurate to say that Windows was inspired by Plasma.
And features 😅
To be fair, windows development also included UI changes beneficial for users, so its not necessarily bad to copy those.
Of course there are many which are.. questionable, we of course shouldnt copy those :D
Hmm…
Seriously tho, agreed!
I’m actually kinda suspicious any Linux user would actually want a single click default.
I don’t know how requiring clocking twice instead of once is good
How do you select files? Probably double click?
No, there are those big plus signs appearing on the top-right corner of the icon, if you click there it selects instead of opening. I guess it’s a matter of habit, I can’t get used to it
Or you drag over the files. Or press something like Strg or Shift while clicking. I mean you have to do that anyways, even with double-click per default or you’d lose focus on the first file. And it’s rarely the case that you just want to focus a single file.
I have an extra button on my mouse that double clicks on press.
So I am extremely used to single clicking to see the extra info at the bottom. Aiming or dragging is extra work for me.
Ah okay, I can see that being useful. Seems we have a different workflow. I rarely look at that extra info at the bottom. Usually just to see how many files I selected and their total size. If I’m concerned with single files, I either don’t care for the size and extra info, or I switch to the list view and have it displayed next to each file if I’m organizing stuff. I’ll also sort them by size or whatever in that case. But I’m not concerned with the exact file info while doing regular stuff. So I wouldn’t use that use-case for a single-click very often.
I drag a box around them or Ctrl+click
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Avoids misclicks from opening stuff by mistake just for that alone is worth it to me.
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I meant misclicks like clicking by mistake, like you clicked the item while trying to click something else or simply clicking by mistake the physical button of the mouse… Maybe uncommon… true but when it happens that a folder or full app opens is annoying.
Oh, NixOS can’t open anything anyway
It’s more wear and tear on mouse buttons! It’s wasteful!
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It would only really make sense as a tablet behaviour.
Why would you be suspicious of that?
The Year of Linux on the Desktop has finally come guys.
I’ve been using my install script for so long, I’ve forgotten that single click was the default. I guess that’s at least one extra line I can remove.
I honestly forgot that single-click is the default behavior in Plasma. I set up new desktop environments so rarely, and this is such an infuriating default behavior that I change it immediately. Glad to hear this is changing.
Main reason is Distros reverting that anyways. It was always doubleclick on Kubuntu and Fedora KDE afaik
See… I’m the opposite… I change and hip around and reinstall across various machine so often, changing the setting has just become second nature… I don’t even think about it anymore! Hahahaha
I personally also welcome this change, as I have changed that setting anyway and of those people I know, they also changed that behaviour immediately. But as long as you can change it and it isn’t forced on you to only use one method, it’s great.
Single-click and the little plus icons on everything in Dolphin are the first things I switch off after install for sure.
That and the bouncing icons when an app is loading... always thought that looked tacky.
I love the bouncy icon
Girlfriend went from KDE to Windows and switched File Explorer to single click hah
A day of sorrow indeed… No, joking aside. I gather most people use double click anyway, so this is a good change for that reason. I’ve never really understood it myself (the primary function of the left click being “select” when everywhere else it’s “open” or “go to this thing”?? Alien stuff).
I’m just glad KDE listens to it’s users and adapts to them. Looking forward to the release!
Its only open on things not meant for file management like web browsers, or when people use their monkey extensions as input device, instead of a mouse with 3 buttons and a scroll wheel ;D
At least, like everything else in KDE, you can set it the way you like it (unlike some other environments that will remain nameless).
I never thought I’d see the day
For all those single-click fans:
Saying “well kids use web stuff and Android and dont know what a single click is” is basically neglecting the use of a mouse. I love at least 3 buttons, hovering and fast clicks.
I prefer single click, but I agree that there are situations where double click is more convenient
That sounds way worse than double click haha. I have set F2 to Volume (the rest is the normal F keys)
Volume what? Mute?
Dont know, I think F1 F2 are up and down, F3 is normal again and would be mute.
I am weird and didnt like sticky Fn keys like it is preconfigured on Thinkpads
I don’t use KDE but I suppose the click is detected on button release, not during the press. It should adress all these questions.
This is the only way that makes sense.
The click is detected immediately, see @Jomosoto@discuss.tchncs.de’s comment.
Not in any KDE release I know, and I’ve been using it since KDE 3.
Tested right this moment: if I press the mouse button down on a video, nothing happens. If I release it keeping the cursor within a ~5 pixel radius, the movie plays. If I move the cursor further than ~5 pixels, it begins a drag-and-drop operation.
Q1: Select (see Q3) + F2
Q2: Same way as double-click people. A file only opens if I click, not when I press the mouse button and drag the file around.
Q3: I draw a small selection frame over it, or press the control key when clicking (I have the hand there any, especially if my next input will be Ctrl+C/X and Ctrl+V
Q4: I just do. Sometimes I relax by playing shooters with the “invert mouse” option turned on :D
I have never had a cell phone or smart phone in my life, single-click was the default when I switched to Linux, I gave it a try and I liked it.
Select: click on the + sign.
Single click is so much better. Vastly superior.
How do I live? Without carpal tunnel.
Okay okay I give it a try
Same, but I use double click. Send like single click is a lot of mouse dragging.
Nope, not really. If you have a list of files you single click on the name, not the icon. That selects it. No dragging.
F2
Click and hold
Many ways, usually I just drag a box around the files. If there’s many in different places, ctrl + click
More convenient without having to double click everything lol
This truely is the darkest timeline
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/fd472dea-a93e-42d2-a9a8-f454ebfd7d8b.jpeg">
This is wholesome in a strange way.
Ok but when do we get to change the drag and drop behavior so it just moves the folder instead of opening a menu
Please do not change that, I love being able to copy via drag and drop instead of just moving because this way, my clipboard is not polluted unnecessarily
I’m fine with a menu being there, just give me the option to make it go away by selecting a default or something.
That single problem makes dolphin unusable for me because there isn’t a basic setting to make it behave like basically every other graphical file manager on any operating system.
(Edited grammar for clarity)
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Double click to open files/folders Single click to highlight file/folders Hover to focus on window
Perfection
No one wins no matter what they choose. Those of us who have switched over to single click either now need to adapt or make the tweak.
I guess this a good default for bringing over Windows converts
Unless they’re overwriting our settings to defaults we really don’t need to do anything. This is for new installs.
I really like single click but since this is just about the new default then I don’t really care
Normal people won