I’m not watching some rando groyper’s clickbait. What is the reason?
Deckweiss@lemmy.world
on 24 Jul 2024 16:15
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This is why people should stop recommending others which distros to recommend or not.
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 24 Jul 2024 16:18
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Well I personally think that Fedora is a bad recommendation too. It’s not just about Arch.
Estebiu@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 24 Jul 2024 16:29
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Just switched to fedora after 4 years of archi. LUKS broke, the h264/h265 aren’t there, and it has redhat’s repo of flatpak selectioned by default rather than flathub. But hey, at least printers work OOTB!
ulkesh@beehaw.org
on 24 Jul 2024 16:33
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…and the installer is garbage.
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 24 Jul 2024 16:50
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And slow repo sync but it’s not that important
Trashboat@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 24 Jul 2024 16:59
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Both getting fixed with Fedora 41 luckily, DNF5 by default and a new installer they’ve been working on
GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
on 24 Jul 2024 17:00
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Good but other issues will remain and Fedora was never meant to be a noob-friendly distro in the first place.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
on 24 Jul 2024 17:14
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I’d disagree with that, mostly.
The media codecs is bloody annoying, yes. Sure it’s only a command or two, but it really should just be a tickbox in the installer like it is on, say, Ubuntu. So big agreement there.
As for the Flatpak repo, Fedora switched to Flathub as the default a while ago. IIRC it only doesn’t if you choose to have no non-foss software during the installation (in which case of course you’d expect to not get full Flathub access!)
I think Fedora is an overall pretty great distro for beginners aside from their media codecs bone-headedness and their god-awful installer (which is getting replaced).
Supposedly Leap will move to whatever SUSE goes to. ALP or something? I lost track of names and options
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
on 24 Jul 2024 16:52
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SUSE also has multiple controversial pacts with Microsoft, and has for a long time. Such as the Novell-Microsoft agreement.
There was a time when it looked possible that MS was going to sue lots of Linux projects, and SUSE immediately jumped into a cosy relationship with MS so that if it did happen, they’d be shielded. This was interpreted as a fuck you to other FOSS projects by much of the community. (Was a long time ago though)
SUSE isn't owned by Novell anymore though. So this isn't particularly relevant.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
on 24 Jul 2024 17:19
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They aren’t, no. But SUSE has continued working with MS, and many of the people that were there are still there.
Perhaps their close relationship is an irrational thing to point at in the current year. Perhaps it isn’t. I don’t really know tbh.
But it’s certainly something some people are still a bit iffy about. And I’m sure some people will still be similarly iffy about RedHat in 10 years too for their recent licencing controversy.
lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network
on 24 Jul 2024 16:21
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Who tf is out there recommending new people Arch? What a non-issue!
Telorand@reddthat.com
on 24 Jul 2024 16:32
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I might recommend something Arch-based that’s opinionated and feature-complete, like Manjaro or Garuda, but I’d recommend pure Arch to the same people who would equally enjoy NixOS.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
on 24 Jul 2024 16:44
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I’ve seen it a handful of times and find it pretty wild. It’s certainly not some widespread thing.
I do agree with the point, though.
krolden@lemmy.ml
on 24 Jul 2024 18:18
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Its a good way to learn how different parts of Linux work
After you install arch a couple times you won’t be making posts asking why your grub is broken, youll already k ow how to fix it.
pmk@lemmy.sdf.org
on 24 Jul 2024 19:26
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The last time my grub was broken was around 2012 when I ran Arch. After that I have rarely thought about grub at all.
lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network
on 24 Jul 2024 19:53
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I’d recommend something that guesses how to install grub onto your system correctly for beginners, and let them figure this stuff out when they’re used to basic Linux usage TBH
I had many problems with installing grub in a dual boot configuration, so much so that I moved to systemd-boot and never had problems after. I don’t know why, but it’s config file approach felt more intuitive.
I’m actually not sure why GRUB is such a popular boot loader that comes packaged with so many distros. Maybe GRUB does something more complex than just bootloading, but I don’t know if most users would care…
All too often. It’s crazy but I see it all the time, and try to call it out.
BaalInvoker@lemmy.eco.br
on 24 Jul 2024 16:34
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Agreed. There is no point recommend Arch for beginners. You need to have some knowledge before using Arch!
Don’t get me wrong… Arch is a great system and it’s my distro of choice, however I’m on Linux for more then 10 years! For a completely beginner, easier distros, such Fedora and PopOS, should be the way to go.
priapus@sh.itjust.works
on 24 Jul 2024 19:36
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I never see people recommend Arch any more. New users should research the distro they should use instead of choosing the distribution they’ve heard of the most.
delirious_owl@discuss.online
on 24 Jul 2024 20:42
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Awwwee you mean I shouldn’t have chosen MX Linux and nord VPN?
what’s wrong with MX? isn’t it basically just debian stable but with xfce as default?
delirious_owl@discuss.online
on 25 Jul 2024 02:12
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I’m just saying that privacy newbies always ask about nord (which is far from the top recommended commercial VPN) because they see ads for it everywhere.
And Linux newbies ask about MX a lot because its at the top of the distrowatch list, though its nowhere near the top most-used Linux distros.
fira959@lemmy.ml
on 24 Jul 2024 21:16
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I would recommend Arch, but only to users who want to learn and understand linux and have the time to do so.
makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml
on 24 Jul 2024 22:19
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I strongly disagree, they should go in with an absolute baby beginner distro first, learn all about how it works from a user’s level, and then they can go back and start building up from scratch with arch.
lordnikon@lemmy.world
on 25 Jul 2024 00:30
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first steps would be to stop calling a distro baby beginner been running debian for 24 years. Linus runs Fedora the exclusive idea I run a hard distro with a custom window manager and use CLI for everything Is pure ego and toxic. Now don’t get me wrong there is no issue with using Arch or a window manager vs DE. But the idea that as you advance it’s a foregone conclusion you will used that config or distro.
This is the same discussion as with learning programming languages. In the us, most universities start with python, to make to easy by avaoiding memory management. In Europe, most universities start with C and C++ to teach the basics to the core. Both approaches can be appropriate depending on the student.
GustavoM@lemmy.world
on 25 Jul 2024 01:18
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Eh, archinstall is a thing nowadays – there is nothing to “learn” on arch anymore.
krakenfury@lemmy.sdf.org
on 25 Jul 2024 03:29
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I would recommend they follow the full installation guide instead, which is probably one of the best pieces of technical documentation in existence at the moment. The amount of detail, context, and instruction provides both an invaluable learning experience and introduction to Linux.
archinstall is not foolproof; that’s why I wouldn’t recommend it to an absolute beginner. IMHO, It’s more valuable for people who are familiar with the process and want a shortcut.
As great as archinstall is, it can’t possibly account for every contingency. Troubleshooting a bootloader issue, for example, is easy if you’ve installed one before. If a noob managed to navigate the TUI (with all of the confusing questions and settings) and complete the installation only to have something go wrong there, they’re off it, maybe for good.
Nobody forces you to use it. A manual arch install is still one of the most valuable leassons I learned when I started using this OS and nothing keeps new users from doing the same today
Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
on 25 Jul 2024 11:17
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new users should just try out distros in vms and decide for themselves
Manmoth@lemmy.ml
on 25 Jul 2024 00:01
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I’m not a programmer but I’ve been using linux for over 20 years. It’s crazy to me that someone who develops software for a living would not just run Windows but have never meaningfully ran linux. 🤔
Templa@beehaw.org
on 25 Jul 2024 01:48
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drops video link
refuses to elaborate
Onihikage@beehaw.org
on 25 Jul 2024 15:45
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I mainly recommend Universal Blue distros to newbies, like Bazzite or Aurora. The immutable nature more or less means users don’t have to worry about performing maintenance of system apps like they might on some distros, mostly don’t have to worry about dependencies, and are less likely to irreversibly break the system themselves or in an update.
That said, these distros are Fedora-based, and I think that’s fine. No idea who out there is recommending Arch of all things.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip
on 25 Jul 2024 16:04
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It might be good in a few years but for now it is more of a experimental concept
Hellmo_Luciferrari@lemm.ee
on 25 Jul 2024 15:46
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I will always recommend people to research their choice of distro. Use the right tool for the job.
What one person needs may differ from what another person needs. Take into account what the use case is for the machine you are using.
I use Arch BTW but I don’t run Arch for any of my servers. I use Arch where it makes sense for me.
I wouldn’t tell someone switching from Windows to just go balls to the wall and go for something blerding edge and arguably more maintenance or manual intervention needed.
I will give my suggestions but always implore them to research what theyt3 looking for.
threaded - newest
I’m not watching some rando groyper’s clickbait. What is the reason?
This is why people should stop recommending others which distros to recommend or not.
Well I personally think that Fedora is a bad recommendation too. It’s not just about Arch.
Just switched to fedora after 4 years of archi. LUKS broke, the h264/h265 aren’t there, and it has redhat’s repo of flatpak selectioned by default rather than flathub. But hey, at least printers work OOTB!
…and the installer is garbage.
And slow repo sync but it’s not that important
Both getting fixed with Fedora 41 luckily, DNF5 by default and a new installer they’ve been working on
Good but other issues will remain and Fedora was never meant to be a noob-friendly distro in the first place.
I’d disagree with that, mostly.
The media codecs is bloody annoying, yes. Sure it’s only a command or two, but it really should just be a tickbox in the installer like it is on, say, Ubuntu. So big agreement there.
As for the Flatpak repo, Fedora switched to Flathub as the default a while ago. IIRC it only doesn’t if you choose to have no non-foss software during the installation (in which case of course you’d expect to not get full Flathub access!)
I think Fedora is an overall pretty great distro for beginners aside from their media codecs bone-headedness and their god-awful installer (which is getting replaced).
.
I always just say “and google ‘what should I do after installing fedora’ and follow along except ‘fastest mirror=true’ don’t bother.”
Seems to work fine so far. 'Swhat I did.
Looks like open suze is going to experience more corporate bullshyt
The parent is suggesting the non corporate part is going to need to be renamed
I lost interest in open suze after I was dead ended on version 15
Tumbleweed is a very good distro. I hope it survives the upcoming wave of BS. It probably will.
Supposedly Leap will move to whatever SUSE goes to. ALP or something? I lost track of names and options
SUSE also has multiple controversial pacts with Microsoft, and has for a long time. Such as the Novell-Microsoft agreement.
There was a time when it looked possible that MS was going to sue lots of Linux projects, and SUSE immediately jumped into a cosy relationship with MS so that if it did happen, they’d be shielded. This was interpreted as a fuck you to other FOSS projects by much of the community. (Was a long time ago though)
SUSE isn't owned by Novell anymore though. So this isn't particularly relevant.
They aren’t, no. But SUSE has continued working with MS, and many of the people that were there are still there.
Perhaps their close relationship is an irrational thing to point at in the current year. Perhaps it isn’t. I don’t really know tbh.
But it’s certainly something some people are still a bit iffy about. And I’m sure some people will still be similarly iffy about RedHat in 10 years too for their recent licencing controversy.
Who tf is out there recommending new people Arch? What a non-issue!
I might recommend something Arch-based that’s opinionated and feature-complete, like Manjaro or Garuda, but I’d recommend pure Arch to the same people who would equally enjoy NixOS.
I’ve seen it a handful of times and find it pretty wild. It’s certainly not some widespread thing.
I do agree with the point, though.
Its a good way to learn how different parts of Linux work
After you install arch a couple times you won’t be making posts asking why your grub is broken, youll already k ow how to fix it.
The last time my grub was broken was around 2012 when I ran Arch. After that I have rarely thought about grub at all.
OK so just dont learn the fundamentals I guess.
Really lazy attitude
I’d recommend something that guesses how to install grub onto your system correctly for beginners, and let them figure this stuff out when they’re used to basic Linux usage TBH
I had many problems with installing grub in a dual boot configuration, so much so that I moved to systemd-boot and never had problems after. I don’t know why, but it’s config file approach felt more intuitive.
I’m actually not sure why GRUB is such a popular boot loader that comes packaged with so many distros. Maybe GRUB does something more complex than just bootloading, but I don’t know if most users would care…
All too often. It’s crazy but I see it all the time, and try to call it out.
Agreed. There is no point recommend Arch for beginners. You need to have some knowledge before using Arch!
Don’t get me wrong… Arch is a great system and it’s my distro of choice, however I’m on Linux for more then 10 years! For a completely beginner, easier distros, such Fedora and PopOS, should be the way to go.
I never see people recommend Arch any more. New users should research the distro they should use instead of choosing the distribution they’ve heard of the most.
Awwwee you mean I shouldn’t have chosen MX Linux and nord VPN?
what’s wrong with MX? isn’t it basically just debian stable but with xfce as default?
I’m just saying that privacy newbies always ask about nord (which is far from the top recommended commercial VPN) because they see ads for it everywhere.
And Linux newbies ask about MX a lot because its at the top of the distrowatch list, though its nowhere near the top most-used Linux distros.
I would recommend Arch, but only to users who want to learn and understand linux and have the time to do so.
I strongly disagree, they should go in with an absolute baby beginner distro first, learn all about how it works from a user’s level, and then they can go back and start building up from scratch with arch.
first steps would be to stop calling a distro baby beginner been running debian for 24 years. Linus runs Fedora the exclusive idea I run a hard distro with a custom window manager and use CLI for everything Is pure ego and toxic. Now don’t get me wrong there is no issue with using Arch or a window manager vs DE. But the idea that as you advance it’s a foregone conclusion you will used that config or distro.
This is the same discussion as with learning programming languages. In the us, most universities start with python, to make to easy by avaoiding memory management. In Europe, most universities start with C and C++ to teach the basics to the core. Both approaches can be appropriate depending on the student.
Eh, archinstall is a thing nowadays – there is nothing to “learn” on arch anymore.
I would recommend they follow the full installation guide instead, which is probably one of the best pieces of technical documentation in existence at the moment. The amount of detail, context, and instruction provides both an invaluable learning experience and introduction to Linux.
archinstall is not foolproof; that’s why I wouldn’t recommend it to an absolute beginner. IMHO, It’s more valuable for people who are familiar with the process and want a shortcut.
As great as archinstall is, it can’t possibly account for every contingency. Troubleshooting a bootloader issue, for example, is easy if you’ve installed one before. If a noob managed to navigate the TUI (with all of the confusing questions and settings) and complete the installation only to have something go wrong there, they’re off it, maybe for good.
Nobody forces you to use it. A manual arch install is still one of the most valuable leassons I learned when I started using this OS and nothing keeps new users from doing the same today
new users should just try out distros in vms and decide for themselves
I’m not a programmer but I’ve been using linux for over 20 years. It’s crazy to me that someone who develops software for a living would not just run Windows but have never meaningfully ran linux. 🤔
drops video link
refuses to elaborate
I mainly recommend Universal Blue distros to newbies, like Bazzite or Aurora. The immutable nature more or less means users don’t have to worry about performing maintenance of system apps like they might on some distros, mostly don’t have to worry about dependencies, and are less likely to irreversibly break the system themselves or in an update.
That said, these distros are Fedora-based, and I think that’s fine. No idea who out there is recommending Arch of all things.
It might be good in a few years but for now it is more of a experimental concept
I will always recommend people to research their choice of distro. Use the right tool for the job.
What one person needs may differ from what another person needs. Take into account what the use case is for the machine you are using.
I use Arch BTW but I don’t run Arch for any of my servers. I use Arch where it makes sense for me.
I wouldn’t tell someone switching from Windows to just go balls to the wall and go for something blerding edge and arguably more maintenance or manual intervention needed.
I will give my suggestions but always implore them to research what theyt3 looking for.