azorius.net

there is just something about FLOSS updates
from drascus@sh.itjust.works to linux@lemmy.ml on 28 Dec 16:08
https://sh.itjust.works/post/30201025

When I just see my TV taking Linux updates it makes me feel so cozy. For context sake I have a veroV running osmc.

#linux

threaded - newest

catloaf@lemm.ee on 28 Dec 16:27 next collapse

Ew I don’t want my TV running systemd

ZeDoTelhado@lemmy.world on 28 Dec 17:57 next collapse

I have actually seen some people with this kind of opinion regarding systemd, but I still do not get the hate about it.

Can you elaborate what is so terrible about systemd?

EDIT: typos

catloaf@lemm.ee on 28 Dec 19:03 next collapse

The unix philosophy is that a piece of software should do one thing, and do it well. Systemd does a dozen things, all of them poorly. It’s an especially poor choice for an embedded or appliance system.

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 29 Dec 16:38 collapse

Systemd is not a singular thing, it’s a collection of a lot of things.

catloaf@lemm.ee on 29 Dec 17:01 collapse

Yes, that’s the problem.

Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works on 29 Dec 17:03 next collapse

Linux is not a singular thing, it’s a collection of a lot of things.

catloaf@lemm.ee on 29 Dec 17:38 collapse

Linux is a kernel. The kernel modules, services, userland, etc. are all modular and can be used independently. Not so with systemd (at least how it’s implemented in most distros).

Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works on 30 Dec 22:00 collapse

I’m sure there’s several modules in the Linux kernel that are necessary to function, and you’re also aware that when people broadly refer to Linux, they don’t mean the kernel specifically lol

Kusimulkku@lemm.ee on 29 Dec 17:04 collapse

I don’t see the problem but I was just saying that it doesn’t break the unix philosophy as such. Not that unix philosophy is much of a thing anymore.

MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml on 28 Dec 19:05 collapse

Ah no, please don’t start another thread like this. We’ve had our experiences, that’s it.

ZeDoTelhado@lemmy.world on 28 Dec 20:06 collapse

It may have been a thing discussed ad nauseum on certain threads. I just wanted to understand if there are facts that make systemd bad in general

MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml on 28 Dec 22:51 collapse

Well, my experience was

why a service misbehaved, can’t get smart from that log dump
configuring DNS, got annoyed that it was yet again something Systemd does itself and in a poor mans way, despite there being tools and standards for tens of years.
Then found out about their security track record and that it all runs as PID 1 (more power than even root)

All in all, it works very contrary to my experience that layers upon layers leads to unmanageable complexity and inefficinecy and it’s all implemented in a poor way, functionally (some will likely disagree to this).

ZeDoTelhado@lemmy.world on 28 Dec 23:47 collapse

Thanks for the response. Right now I do not have enough knowledge to judge for myself if systemd is effectively great or not. Once I have the time I will check closer kernel architecture (theoretical wise), then in how the Linux kernel is effectively organized and only after that understand the theory behind systemd. I’ve seen several threads where 2 very different camps exists, but I was not entirely sure of the information I was getting.

Cannot say I will get around this, but for sure peeks my curiosity

oldfart@lemm.ee on 28 Dec 18:04 next collapse

Libreelec is systemd-free ☺️

Vitaly@feddit.uk on 28 Dec 19:06 collapse

What do they use instead?

oldfart@lemm.ee on 28 Dec 19:37 collapse

I was wrong :(

syaochan@feddit.it on 28 Dec 23:07 collapse

Xbian uses upstart

buddascrayon@lemmy.world on 28 Dec 16:42 next collapse

~~That moment you realize you are fetishizing something that was a carbon copy of a Windows mechanism originally designed by people at Microsoft/Apple.~~

I stand corrected. Thank you catloaf and lordnikon

lordnikon@lemmy.world on 28 Dec 17:12 next collapse

I don’t normally engage with comments like these but you do realize Unix predates windows by 10 years. So much so that windows used the bsd net code is some of its network stack up till windows 8

[deleted] on 28 Dec 18:52 collapse

naitro@lemmy.world on 28 Dec 18:54 next collapse

Your point being?

RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works on 28 Dec 18:59 collapse

Some NT net utilities even had BSD info in their binaries.

30p87@feddit.org on 28 Dec 17:55 next collapse

Updating is a windows mechanism now?

catloaf@lemm.ee on 28 Dec 19:11 next collapse

Which part? Package installation (not windows), TUI graphics (IBM PC, predating Windows), or dialog/whiptail dialogs (1994, based on the IBM PC line drawing)?

ashley@lemmy.ca on 28 Dec 20:17 collapse

The difference is user consent

hsdkfr734r@feddit.nl on 28 Dec 17:05 next collapse

Needs more scrolling wall of text for my liking. ;)

SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml on 28 Dec 19:20 next collapse

Yeah, bar progress is sus

xavier666@lemm.ee on 29 Dec 16:17 collapse

Sees GUI (TUI) interface

Pathetic

z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml on 28 Dec 19:34 collapse

I prefer to see changes in RAM and CPU registers in hexadecimal or binary output. 🤓

Lemmchen@feddit.org on 28 Dec 19:02 next collapse

What am I seeing here exactly?

melroy@kbin.melroy.org on 28 Dec 21:41 next collapse

Assuming this output is indeed NOT from a HDMI or other external display input. This seems to be a some kind of Whiptail UI on the command line, it's showing an update of systemd package unpacking (after the package is downloaded) on ARM platform. TV seems to be of the brand Element, never heard about it TBH. Systemd is used today by many Linux distros as a replacement of the traditional init-scripts. No other information is present in either the screenshot or the description.

drascus@sh.itjust.works on 28 Dec 21:45 collapse

Its osmc updating on the veroV

MrMobius@sh.itjust.works on 28 Dec 21:38 next collapse

The “wait for the bar filling up” should be a documented addiction in WHO standards. 😅

hamburger@discuss.tchncs.de on 29 Dec 01:14 collapse

FLOSS? FLee and Open Source?

lambdabeta@lemmy.ca on 29 Dec 03:50 next collapse

I believe it stands for Free/Libre Open Source Software. I think the idea is to explicitly indicate both free as in beer and free as in speech. However, to me it just sounds like throwing in a romance term for the sake of it. But maybe I’m just ill versed on the whole free/libre divide?

catloaf@lemm.ee on 29 Dec 15:14 next collapse

English has one word for libre and gratis. Some people add the “libre” to make it explicit.

dubyakay@lemmy.ca on 29 Dec 15:43 collapse

Thanks for the explanation. I’ll always call it FLOSS from now on.

pixelscript@lemm.ee on 29 Dec 15:49 collapse

There’s lots of software out there that is available to use without payment, but is still license restricted in such a way that you are not permitted to redistribute, modify, use for commercial purposes, etc. To many, these rights are the far more important facet of “free” software, above what it costs.

But since the English language has the same word for all of these concepts, we have all these yucks running around with zero-cost but right-restricted software wearing the “FOSS” badge thinking they’re part of the club. So some people add “Libre” to the acronym to explicitly disambiguate.

drascus@sh.itjust.works on 29 Dec 04:22 collapse

As someone else said its free libre open source software. Not my term I just use it because it tends to piss off the least amount of people.

lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network on 30 Dec 12:51 collapse

I’ve read it as Free-Licenced Open Source Software before.
Which doesn’t clarify much IMO but it turns the abbreviation into a word!

At that point, just abbreviate it LOSS; Libre Open Source Software.
Free/Libre is a bit redundant, isn’t it.