Yeah I wish it had a different name but it works for every distro via flatpak. I like using it that way but im sure it works well as a package for most distros.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip
on 09 Aug 2024 03:36
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It even works on Windows
mitrosus@discuss.tchncs.de
on 10 Aug 2024 12:02
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(☝︎ ՞ਊ ՞)☝︎
TheFool@infosec.pub
on 09 Aug 2024 02:59
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I really don’t get why I should use anything else than dd
jaxiiruff@lemmy.zip
on 09 Aug 2024 03:23
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Not everyone likes to use commands for something as trivial as this, its nice to press a couple buttons and wait for it to be done vs learning how dd works and what arguments to use etc.
foudinfo@jlai.lu
on 09 Aug 2024 05:40
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My favorite way to create a boot media is simply to use cat. No arguments, no shenanigans just a cat into the device :
cat debian.iso > /dev/sda
neodc@sh.itjust.works
on 09 Aug 2024 06:18
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Replace cat with pv to get a progress bar for free
Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 09 Aug 2024 08:39
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iirc there was a reason you should use dd instead of directly copying the data, I think something to do with device block alignment or something?
Yep that’s right, but I use fdisk to check my drives before writing on them and it also requires sudo…
qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website
on 09 Aug 2024 23:42
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Right, I just meant that you can’t sudo cat file > /dev/sda but you can sudo dd …, because IO redirection isn’t elevated to root with sudo. I’m not saying anything too profound :)
Oh right, my bad x)
I agree, it’s a little bit akward to use su then cat everytime.
lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network
on 09 Aug 2024 08:18
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Not everyone likes to install compicated graphical software which does a thousand and one things it shouldn’t do just to copy files to an external drive
GustavoM@lemmy.world
on 09 Aug 2024 13:22
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“What, you guys don’t spend money in several external ssds?”
– this guy
ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works
on 09 Aug 2024 14:26
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What? You can use dd to read/write any block storage device (or file)
JustMarkov@lemmy.ml
on 09 Aug 2024 02:59
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four programs to make Linux boot media
Or you can use one Ventoy to make a boot media with four Linux ISOs.
atomkarinca@lemmygrad.ml
on 09 Aug 2024 03:10
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wow, really wow.
i saw veronica talk about ventoy weirdos on mastodon, and here you are.
Telorand@reddthat.com
on 09 Aug 2024 03:52
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Also, Ventoy doesn’t work on all hardware. Meanwhile, the typical options work just fine.
blitzed@noauthority.social
on 09 Aug 2024 03:56
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Works for me on Lenovo ThinkCentre M720q's I've sniped used & stacked.
Although I gotta force text mode in Ventoy menu options, otherwise some distro ISO's boot into scrambled graphics, suppose I should bother to RTFM sometime.
I've yet to try Ventoy on an external NVMe case I pieced together recently, and on my wife's newer laptop.
Telorand@reddthat.com
on 09 Aug 2024 12:18
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I don’t mean to be rude, but great? Didn’t work for me on all my hardware, even using a Windows ISO. I pointed out my personal experience, because it’s not the panacea its proponents would have everyone believe.
I would certainly never use it to install anything, after my experiences with it. If it can’t get opening ISOs right, I don’t need a surprise that my install is fucked up.
No, it is. How could it be simplier? Install Ventoy and then just drag 'n drop your ISOs to usb drive. Why Rufus is beginner friendly and Ventoy is not?
rockSlayer@lemmy.world
on 09 Aug 2024 03:54
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What are some recommendations for putting Ventoy on your main USB (with other contents instead of just ISOs)? I need to find the guide I saw, it mentioned some configurations to prevent it from searching every directory for ISOs
Also while I’m having some federation issues, the linked website can be subscribed to from here :)
tl;dr: create a .ventoyignore file inside the folder you want Ventoy not to scan.
mle86@feddit.org
on 09 Aug 2024 05:57
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Alternatively when creating the ventoy installation you can chose to leave X amount of space behind the ventoy partition and then create your own data partition there afterwards. You lose the advantage of “dynamically” sharing the available space between ventoy and your data, but with the seperqte partition you can use whatever filesystem you like for your data, and there is a clear seperation between ventoy and your other data.
I never really noticed performance decrease. But still this is great to know - thank you!
Drusenija@lemmy.world
on 09 Aug 2024 07:26
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I have Ventoy on a USB stick, tried to use it recently for DBAN and it didn’t work, is there any way to get around that these days? Haven’t looked into it recently.
f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4@sopuli.xyz
on 09 Aug 2024 15:15
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It works for Ultimate Boot CD, which includes DBAN and a lot of other fun stuff.
I play with retro hardware and Ventoy has also worked for me with some weird old isos that even Rufus didn’t work with (XP/Server 2003 multidisc from eXPerience that uses a Linux bootloader?)
Drusenija@lemmy.world
on 09 Aug 2024 15:20
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That good advice, thank you, will definitely give that a shot!
Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
on 09 Aug 2024 03:37
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It's also an old and jumbled-up format paralleling .gif in a surprising amount of ways, including being never intended for its primary usage, still being popular, and newer formats proving much better.
Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 09 Aug 2024 08:41
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Wait why was iso not intended to be used like this? As far as I can see, it was always meant as a digital image of a CD, which is how it was used, and pretty much still is right?
Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
on 09 Aug 2024 12:57
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Oops, yeah, you're right. I was thinking about the live ISO functionality.
Yes, mint is good like that. GNOME has a separate Image Writer app/icon, but it has been turned off by default. So it is less discoverable for new people, but more simplified as is the GNOME way
Thrickles@lemm.ee
on 09 Aug 2024 04:51
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Great suggestions. The Ventoy bros are weird. Just use what works for you.
SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org
on 09 Aug 2024 05:45
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I do use Ventoy, but a more “traditional” alternative that I like is Popsicle. Super lightweight, and works very well. Some cases do require a dedicated USB, where Ventoy won’t work, at least not without trickery (e.g. anything with persistent storage).
oo1@lemmings.world
on 09 Aug 2024 06:27
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dd
qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website
on 09 Aug 2024 12:55
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Also a super useful tool for measuring real world bandwidth, both on physical media and over the network ( dd status=progress … | nc …).
PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
on 09 Aug 2024 13:10
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Lpt: root your Android phone so that you can dd the thing in case the screen breaks.
briongloid@aussie.zone
on 09 Aug 2024 06:31
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I generally use the Raspberry Pi Imager, It works just as well with USB’s as TF cards.
jadedwench@lemmy.world
on 10 Aug 2024 14:36
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Me too! I have used it for a couple other non-rpi devices in the past as well. It is super simple and works on my Mac. I haven’t even looked at other utilities in years.
data1701d@startrek.website
on 12 Aug 2024 08:33
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Also a Raspi Imager fan when I have Pis around since I usually have it installed anyway.
I would use dd, but I always worry I’ll bungle something and only use it when necessary. I’m trying to write a utility called Rubber Duck Disk Dump that takes all the same options but parses your command beforehand to try to guess what you’re doing and warn you if it is really, really stupid, and if you type yes, it then passes all args straight to dd.
funbreaker@kbin.run
on 09 Aug 2024 06:39
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I like Ventoy because I'm an ISO hoarder but if the task needs a dedicated USB, then I'll open Etcher.
theshatterstone54@feddit.uk
on 09 Aug 2024 07:28
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I don’t… understand… the downvotes. I do the same thing though I never really get to the Balena Etcher part. Also, Ventoy is the only way to get a Windows ISO up and running from Linux, as far as I know.
lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network
on 09 Aug 2024 08:16
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The down votes are from the Etcher part, it has a cult of lovers and a cult of haters.
I’m l fine with people using Etcher, Rufus, or whatever works for them, but I’m aware that both software I just named has passionate haters.
GustavoM@lemmy.world
on 09 Aug 2024 13:20
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Sadly the “reddit mentality” has already established in this community – theres no “why” in these downvotes other than as a self-relief/validation thing.
ColdWater@lemmy.ca
on 09 Aug 2024 08:02
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I curious because I don’t have the skill to test it myself but can you just manually copy everything to USB it’s just work?
Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 09 Aug 2024 08:33
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No, the drive needs a boot partition for the bios to know there is something to be booted on the drive.
Most Linux ISO’s do properly include the partitions in the ISO, so you can clone the iso to a drive and that should work, using dd for example. But just copying the files won’t work.
iirc windows iso’s did use to support just creating a fat32 partition and moving all the files over, not sure how they managed that. But now the international ISO for win 11 has a file that’s more than the max 4Gb allowed by fat32, so you can’t do that anymore either.
Telorand@reddthat.com
on 09 Aug 2024 12:23
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No idea if this exists for Linux, but there’s a program for Windows called GuiFormat that allows formatting of larger thumb drives to be fat32.
Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 09 Aug 2024 15:07
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That’s not the only issue, fat32 also has a hard limit on single file size. The largest a single file can be is 4GiB, and afaik you just can’t get around that with fat.
iirc, the way windows deals with this in its media creation tool is that it strips out locales and other things you don’t need, based on the options you selected previously, so the file ends up being small enough to fit.
Telorand@reddthat.com
on 09 Aug 2024 15:15
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Dunno how GuiFormat gets around those limitations (something to do with block sizes, I think), but I’ve never had any trouble with it.
There’s better options than fat32, anyway, just pointing out that the 4GB limit has a workaround, and YMMV.
nyan@sh.itjust.works
on 09 Aug 2024 13:56
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In the general case, no, but there are some rare specific cases where that does work.
If you’re trying to produce Linux media that will boot on a single-board computer that has an onboard bootloader, like a Pi 4, you can indeed just partition the target medium and copy the files manually (been there, done that, working with a custom Gentoo install with no ISO).
If the bootloader has to be on the target medium (as it would for a desktop or laptop), then that won’t work unless you also do a manual bootloader install after copying everything. Not impossible, but at that point you’re hitting the level of complexity where it’s easier to figure out the correct dd command.
(As for Windows? Don’t even bother. It hates being worked on with anything but its own tools.)
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
on 09 Aug 2024 12:36
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I don’t burn ISOs often enough to need a dedicated ventoy drive, or to remember how to use the DD command, so Impression is generally what I use. I generally prefer Libadwaita/GTK4 apps that look at home on my system.
ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works
on 09 Aug 2024 14:23
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Does impression support Windows ISOs? Or only ISOHybrid (what Linux ISOs use so you can add them)
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
on 09 Aug 2024 20:58
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I have no idea, I’ve not had to install windows in a while. From a quick search I see conflicting info…
A user reported it didn’t work, then the dev said he tested it and it works fine
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca
on 09 Aug 2024 13:47
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dd, or cat with a shell redirect are all you need to write that iso.
My trouble with dd is all the flags I need to remember to make it fast and more convenient. dd if=file of=/dev/device oflag=direct status=progress bs=1M is there anything I’m missing?
Molten_Moron@lemmings.world
on 09 Aug 2024 14:40
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bs=1M
This part varies based on your hardware (my hardware is much faster with a value of 4096) , but other than that it’s everything.
Here is a handy script that can help determine which bs size is best for your hardware.
Prevents the writes from piling up in the cache. dd will report the transfer is done when the writes have been cached so this setting prevents dd from exiting until the data has been written completely to the block device.
This ensures the cache is written before dd exits, but doesn’t necessarily write to disk directly. This means that, for small files, dd can finish release its hold on the input file quicker
threaded - newest
Fedora Media Writer is the best, I hardly use BalenaEtcher but its good too incase the former doesnt work
Does it work for any distro other than fedora tho?
Yeah I wish it had a different name but it works for every distro via flatpak. I like using it that way but im sure it works well as a package for most distros.
It even works on Windows
(☝︎ ՞ਊ ՞)☝︎
I really don’t get why I should use anything else than dd
Fear?
<img alt="" src="https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/a82071db-0b00-4e68-bf78-978d48a45fe6.jpeg">
Not everyone likes to use commands for something as trivial as this, its nice to press a couple buttons and wait for it to be done vs learning how dd works and what arguments to use etc.
My favorite way to create a boot media is simply to use cat. No arguments, no shenanigans just a cat into the device :
cat debian.iso > /dev/sdaReplace cat with pv to get a progress bar for free
iirc there was a reason you should use dd instead of directly copying the data, I think something to do with device block alignment or something?
That could be possible but for the moment I didn’t encouter any problem with cat. I think I’m going to stick with it for the time being.
One caveat is that you will need write access to the drive, which probably means you need to run as root — can’t run that with
sudoas-is, unlikedd.Yep that’s right, but I use fdisk to check my drives before writing on them and it also requires sudo…
Right, I just meant that you can’t
sudo cat file > /dev/sdabut you cansudo dd …, because IO redirection isn’t elevated to root with sudo. I’m not saying anything too profound :)Oh right, my bad x) I agree, it’s a little bit akward to use su then cat everytime.
Not everyone likes to install compicated graphical software which does a thousand and one things it shouldn’t do just to copy files to an external drive
“What, you guys don’t spend money in several external ssds?”
– this guy
What? You can use dd to read/write any block storage device (or file)
Or you can use one Ventoy to make a boot media with four Linux ISOs.
wow, really wow.
i saw veronica talk about ventoy weirdos on mastodon, and here you are.
Also, Ventoy doesn’t work on all hardware. Meanwhile, the typical options work just fine.
@Telorand @atomkarinca
Works for me on Lenovo ThinkCentre M720q's I've sniped used & stacked.
Although I gotta force text mode in Ventoy menu options, otherwise some distro ISO's boot into scrambled graphics, suppose I should bother to RTFM sometime.
I've yet to try Ventoy on an external NVMe case I pieced together recently, and on my wife's newer laptop.
I don’t mean to be rude, but great? Didn’t work for me on all my hardware, even using a Windows ISO. I pointed out my personal experience, because it’s not the panacea its proponents would have everyone believe.
I would certainly never use it to install anything, after my experiences with it. If it can’t get opening ISOs right, I don’t need a surprise that my install is fucked up.
Ventoy weirdos? Ventoy is just a solid and convenient program to create live usbs. What’s the problem with it?
because this video is a beginners guide and ventoy is irrelevant for that topic, yet here you are still talking about it.
No, it is. How could it be simplier? Install Ventoy and then just drag 'n drop your ISOs to usb drive. Why Rufus is beginner friendly and Ventoy is not?
Only 4? Those are rookie numbers
Need a bigger dongle.
Found the Ventoy bro /s
@AlligatorBlizzard @JustMarkov
Only FOUR ISO's?
I forget the number, but I maxed out a 32GB flash drive with an absurd amount of ISO's *LOL*
Wowzerz, this new external NVMe I need to format, how many ISO's can I shoehorn onto 1TB, and the boot speeds will probably blow my mind \0/
What are some recommendations for putting Ventoy on your main USB (with other contents instead of just ISOs)? I need to find the guide I saw, it mentioned some configurations to prevent it from searching every directory for ISOs
Also while I’m having some federation issues, the linked website can be subscribed to from here :)
!veronicaexplains@tinkerbetter.tube
www.ventoy.net/en/doc_search_path.html
tl;dr: create a .ventoyignore file inside the folder you want Ventoy not to scan.
Alternatively when creating the ventoy installation you can chose to leave X amount of space behind the ventoy partition and then create your own data partition there afterwards. You lose the advantage of “dynamically” sharing the available space between ventoy and your data, but with the seperqte partition you can use whatever filesystem you like for your data, and there is a clear seperation between ventoy and your other data.
I never really noticed performance decrease. But still this is great to know - thank you!
I have Ventoy on a USB stick, tried to use it recently for DBAN and it didn’t work, is there any way to get around that these days? Haven’t looked into it recently.
It works for Ultimate Boot CD, which includes DBAN and a lot of other fun stuff.
I play with retro hardware and Ventoy has also worked for me with some weird old isos that even Rufus didn’t work with (XP/Server 2003 multidisc from eXPerience that uses a Linux bootloader?)
That good advice, thank you, will definitely give that a shot!
It's also an old and jumbled-up format paralleling .gif in a surprising amount of ways, including being never intended for its primary usage, still being popular, and newer formats proving much better.
Wait why was iso not intended to be used like this? As far as I can see, it was always meant as a digital image of a CD, which is how it was used, and pretty much still is right?
Oops, yeah, you're right. I was thinking about the live ISO functionality.
Nice thing about GNOME DE is it comes with Gnome Disks. Select device, click the restore image button and point to the ISO
Or you could just install it on any other system with Wayland or x11.
Gparted works fine for me, so that’s what I use.
Gparted is awesome. But probably overwhelming for newbies just looking to burn an iso to USB. Raspberry PI Image Writer works very simply also.
I like how simple Mint’s USB image writer makes it for newbies, both to look it up in the menu as well as the simple UI
Yes, mint is good like that. GNOME has a separate Image Writer app/icon, but it has been turned off by default. So it is less discoverable for new people, but more simplified as is the GNOME way
.
Great suggestions. The Ventoy bros are weird. Just use what works for you.
I do use Ventoy, but a more “traditional” alternative that I like is Popsicle. Super lightweight, and works very well. Some cases do require a dedicated USB, where Ventoy won’t work, at least not without trickery (e.g. anything with persistent storage).
dd
Also a super useful tool for measuring real world bandwidth, both on physical media and over the network (
dd status=progress … | nc …).Lpt: root your Android phone so that you can dd the thing in case the screen breaks.
I generally use the Raspberry Pi Imager, It works just as well with USB’s as TF cards.
GitHub repo
Me too! I have used it for a couple other non-rpi devices in the past as well. It is super simple and works on my Mac. I haven’t even looked at other utilities in years.
Also a Raspi Imager fan when I have Pis around since I usually have it installed anyway.
I would use dd, but I always worry I’ll bungle something and only use it when necessary. I’m trying to write a utility called Rubber Duck Disk Dump that takes all the same options but parses your command beforehand to try to guess what you’re doing and warn you if it is really, really stupid, and if you type yes, it then passes all args straight to dd.
I like Ventoy because I'm an ISO hoarder but if the task needs a dedicated USB, then I'll open Etcher.
I don’t… understand… the downvotes. I do the same thing though I never really get to the Balena Etcher part. Also, Ventoy is the only way to get a Windows ISO up and running from Linux, as far as I know.
The down votes are from the Etcher part, it has a cult of lovers and a cult of haters.
I’m l fine with people using Etcher, Rufus, or whatever works for them, but I’m aware that both software I just named has passionate haters.
Etcher is not recommend anymore because it’s adware and there are better free alternative like Impression
I'll check Impression out, thanks!
Sadly the “reddit mentality” has already established in this community – theres no “why” in these downvotes other than as a self-relief/validation thing.
I curious because I don’t have the skill to test it myself but can you just manually copy everything to USB it’s just work?
No, the drive needs a boot partition for the bios to know there is something to be booted on the drive.
Most Linux ISO’s do properly include the partitions in the ISO, so you can clone the iso to a drive and that should work, using dd for example. But just copying the files won’t work.
iirc windows iso’s did use to support just creating a fat32 partition and moving all the files over, not sure how they managed that. But now the international ISO for win 11 has a file that’s more than the max 4Gb allowed by fat32, so you can’t do that anymore either.
No idea if this exists for Linux, but there’s a program for Windows called GuiFormat that allows formatting of larger thumb drives to be fat32.
That’s not the only issue, fat32 also has a hard limit on single file size. The largest a single file can be is 4GiB, and afaik you just can’t get around that with fat.
iirc, the way windows deals with this in its media creation tool is that it strips out locales and other things you don’t need, based on the options you selected previously, so the file ends up being small enough to fit.
Dunno how GuiFormat gets around those limitations (something to do with block sizes, I think), but I’ve never had any trouble with it.
There’s better options than fat32, anyway, just pointing out that the 4GB limit has a workaround, and YMMV.
In the general case, no, but there are some rare specific cases where that does work.
If you’re trying to produce Linux media that will boot on a single-board computer that has an onboard bootloader, like a Pi 4, you can indeed just partition the target medium and copy the files manually (been there, done that, working with a custom Gentoo install with no ISO).
If the bootloader has to be on the target medium (as it would for a desktop or laptop), then that won’t work unless you also do a manual bootloader install after copying everything. Not impossible, but at that point you’re hitting the level of complexity where it’s easier to figure out the correct
ddcommand.(As for Windows? Don’t even bother. It hates being worked on with anything but its own tools.)
I don’t burn ISOs often enough to need a dedicated ventoy drive, or to remember how to use the DD command, so Impression is generally what I use. I generally prefer Libadwaita/GTK4 apps that look at home on my system.
Does impression support Windows ISOs? Or only ISOHybrid (what Linux ISOs use so you can add them)
I have no idea, I’ve not had to install windows in a while. From a quick search I see conflicting info…
A user reported it didn’t work, then the dev said he tested it and it works fine
Mark Shuttleworth’s Startup Disk Creator
dd, or cat with a shell redirect are all you need to write that iso.
My trouble with dd is all the flags I need to remember to make it fast and more convenient.
dd if=file of=/dev/device oflag=direct status=progress bs=1Mis there anything I’m missing?This part varies based on your hardware (my hardware is much faster with a value of 4096) , but other than that it’s everything.
Here is a handy script that can help determine which bs size is best for your hardware.
Neat! I’ll have to try that out.
I think you might mean 4096.
Yes, I do! Thanks!
dd can be soooo much faster too. But like you, I always forget the tags. I should make an alias sometime…
What does this do?
Prevents the writes from piling up in the cache. dd will report the transfer is done when the writes have been cached so this setting prevents dd from exiting until the data has been written completely to the block device.
Use
conv=fsyncThis ensures the cache is written before dd exits, but doesn’t necessarily write to disk directly. This means that, for small files, dd can finish release its hold on the input file quicker
The video description says it’s aimed at Windows users, dd and cat have no power there
I’ve used ventoy to set up a bootable USB with Mint & MX options. It allowed me to set the Mint with persistence. The MX has issues with persistence.
How to set up reusable boot with dd I don’t know.
MX has its own built in tool to make a bootable USB with persistence
Will have to check it out.
Thanks
Little known fact, Disk Manager comes with almost every distro, and works just fine.
Another program that works on Windows, which I prefer to Balena Etcher, but less so than Rufus: unetbootin