No. joshuastrobl.social/@me/112197672362783955

timezones are always crazy on 1 April. My initial assumption was it’s a joke. It would be awesome though! More people should use or at least try KDE.

Man, why do people publish serious announcements on April 1st? Between the XZ backdoor that almost pwned all of Linux, a Silksong update, Bellular News taking some absolutely degenerate stance with games “journalism”, and this, I don’t know what the fuck to believe.

To be fair, it would make much more sense to switch to KDE for distributions like Ubuntu. Fedora never sold itself as a distribution targeting new Linux users coming from other operating systems. Therefore at least that point shouldn’t be the reason to use KDE. Also distributions aren’t just for new users and should not decide too much because of that. On top of that, a user is new for a very short period of time anyway. I digress…

GNOME 46 has experimental VRR support too

Wat

Kde has you covered. MOD + w by default and you can switch it in settings to MOD only.

You can even have hot corner like gnome does.

You’ll need to configure Plasma to do that, as the default is to bring-up the launcher. The overview effect is alf-tab iirc.

Whenever I have to use Windows it’s in front of other people an I swear they all think I’m an idiot when move the cursor to the top left and wait for something to happen only to experience disappointment

So you got PTSD from a desktop manger, a little extreme there.

Don’t think so as they asked for “Workstation KDE” and “Workstation GNOME” > Issue tagged with: changes, f42 I think Fedora was doing a lot of work on KDE anyways.

Lol, that's what makes me hate GNOME. If I wanted the bare minimum I'd just start a raw display server with only 1 program in it.

But my brain has no issue with dozens of things happening at once (ADHD).

Hmm… my right click menu looks uniform. Could be your theme.

Similar here. I have switched to xfce after struggling with gnome and kde.

If only it looked bad but performed well, I might still take it. No matter how many times I try, it’s just not stable for me to daily drive.

Same here. I can’t stand the lack of cleanliness in UI. In Plasma, within 5 mins of usage, I can already notice imperfections everywhere.

I’ve said it before, I don’t really like KDE or GNOME because they’re on opposite ends of the spectrum.

GNOME seems to have a very vivid ideal of beauty, and that ideal is “empty windows that don’t do anything.” Open up a utility app, Big window with lots of empty space with a few buttons crammed in the top bar and not enough options to do what you actually need to do.

KDE feels a lot more amateurish in that…things don’t line up as well, the spacing between elements is off a lot, and the whole experience is BUSY! Lots of UI elements everywhere. A basic utility will have more options than you knew what to do with just in case. It’s hideous the way the control panel at a nuclear power plant is hideous.

So I use Cinnamon. Which Gnome is trying very hard to corrupt, but for now it works while still being comfortable and comprehensible.

I like KDE’s conformance to open standards, which is better than GNOME’s, and pace of development. However you’re absolutely right that the UI on KDE is inconsistent, messy, and buggy as hell. GNOME is still my go to because it’s just so polished, but I’m looking forward to COSMIC this year for that nice tiling workflow

If I recall correctly, the desktop right click menu was one of the things they fixed in Plasma 6, actually.

The Fedora Project currently maintains 10 desktop-oriented spins (excluding GNOME since it’s the default), so they’re not going to be abandoning one of the most popular DEs in use. GNOME is going to be maintained regardless of their default choice of DE.

You just install the extension manager or use a web browser. It probably could use more documentation but I also understand that gnome is cautious about user generated content

KDE looks basically like a Windows 10 desktop by default tho. That makes it easy for most people to get into it

It can also be used very simply though. It works out of the box with any changes necessary. The issue I find with gnome is that its simplicity quickly became a bottleneck for me. E.g. Konsole is just so great and I couldn’t live without it anymore

Building KDE on gnome is not feasible

How are you running the VMs, with VirtualBox? I can’t say I’ve run a DE on a VM very often, but it’s always been under libvirt and I’ve not seen segfaults. I don’t disbelieve you, but I wonder if its the hypervisor.

Not sure why you’re fixating on Kmail; Thunderbird works fine on KDE and is the preferred choice across most distros IME. I’d use it before Outlook even if it were available on Linux.

I believe these problems would be sorted out pretty quickly if big player like Fedora really switched. We can only dream for now…

Merkuro Mail might fix some of KMail’s issues. It still uses the same backend though, and isn’t really stable yet.

I’m sure kmail used to work (a number of years ago). But something happened to it and I never managed to get it to work again. I tried again recently and no luck.

Of course Thunderbird worked immediately on a basic Imap account.

And don’t even get me started on Google integration. Although Google probably shares the blame (or is responsible for most of it) given the hoops they make you jump through to (very reluctantly) allow anything to talk to their apps.

Exactly. While I love Plasma for what it is, I also don’t love certain things like lack of polish, stability etc. Again no offense. Fedora Workstation aims to be a stable OS with sensible defaults for wider audience including home users, disabled people and developers who want to get things done rather than tweaking their OS. GNOME may not have great customizability as Plasma but it is stable and well polished for average user.

KDE prioritizes features and customization over stability and out of the box experience.

I mean, the fact that the very new major release of KDE almost hadn't added new features and focused on a rather smooth upgrade kinda proves otherwise.

Like the stability of blowing up extensions and APIs across minor point releases?

Install KWin script “Polonium” and you won’t need any TWM anymore.

It’s probably not gonna happen, but it’s great that this discussion is happening at all. Maybe it’ll encourage Gnome to improve their customizability, which seems to be the main advantage point of KDE

Red Hat doesn’t have influence over the development of Fedora, that’s the job of FESCo. Red Hat owns the trademark and is one of the sponsors of the Fedora Project, but their interest is solely in enterprise applications (a task that is not suitable for Fedora), not in consumer desktop platforms. I’ve already discussed this at length here and here if you’d like more detail; there’s no point in rewriting it.

I too hate Gnome with an unreasonable passion.

So I just don’t use it.

If others want to subject themselves to it, well, I’m not one to kink shame.

oh I can explain mine, Bad performance, lacking features, devs who don’t care about problems that effect the user.

has a tendency to crap the bed a few minutes after startup

Tell me you are an nvidia user without telling me. Either that is hard to believe. I use KDE daily for more than 8-9 hours a day, sometimes my pc goes for a full week without geting turned off, multiple apps tabs and servers on, themes installed, widgets on the desktop, I am such an extremely heavy KDE user you have no idea. Still, zero crashes. Sometimes something goes a bit “wut” like moving a window around gliches a liiiiiiitle bit, but it instantly corrects itself and goes back to being stable. And I am on Plasma 6.0.3, funny enough has been more stable than Plasma 5.

Update your KDE or use a distro that has better KDE support. Some distros fck up KDE packages and get it unstable. Fedora KDE is rock solid for example. Nobara has been great too and its now KDE by default.

KDE is buggy and has a tendency to crap the bed a few minutes after startup, which never happened to me with Gnome.

Then our experiences are vastly different. I have never encountered any bug or instability with KDE Plasma 5, and I have used it on a dozen or so devices. This is probably some driver problem specific to your machine.

This is probably the best take in fedora not adopting KDE i’ve heard to date lmao

Red Hat has participated in KDE on many occasions. Not to a degree as with Gnome but it’s not unheard of.

It matters since a top 3 distro will identify with KDE Plasma desktop. This is not very common.

OOB experience matters a LOT.

Its a huge deal. If X desktop is the default, it shows that the distro developers and maintainers usually test and optimize more and better for that specific DE so your experience with the default DE will always be more stable and polished than non-official ones. Extra GUI tools that the distro makes usually are also better tailored to the default distro. Like Manjaro and all of their locale, kernel and other packages that are integrated inside the KDE settings. Or popOS and all of their utilities being integrated into Cosmic. Etc etc. More money and dev time is invested into the default DE.

.

LMAO no.

Meanwhile I CANNOT be productive in GNOME. There are hundreds of maybe thousands of KDE features that make IT and dev work so extremely easy. I could make a 50 page comment just listing them. I can start with how horrendously basic and generic the default gnome terminal is.

But then KDE also is in fact good for average ex-Windows users because it has stuff where people expect it to, has features that people expect too (cough minimize/maximize buttons cough) and well yea KDE is better for average users.

So KDE is better for IT users and developers, and is also better for average users. And since it supports vsync off, VRR and HDR it is also better for gaming.

So wait is KDE better for literally EVERYONE? 🤔

I’m a developer and I’ve strongly preferred KDE over Gnome for many years. I find the lack of features and customization in Gnome extremely irritating.

Donno why i was downvoted. I’ve been an avid KDE fan for years.

Ah i see kde has fixed the issue where dropdowns had broken behavior when scrolling …kde.org/…/f6ca218607ff7e5d5066eb3224154c3256cb95… this was my main blocker why i couldn’t use it when i tried it around 2020. Maybe i could give it another try?

Spot on.

Obviously it’s a difficult sell - but if this got positive attention I could see Fesco relenting and “upgrading” the branding on Fedora KDE to Fedora Plasma Workstation

Back in the Gnome 2 days this wasn’t as much the case. Plus KDE was kind of a mess back then so the main choices were Gnome or XFCE which had fewer features. When Gnome 3 came around the devs switched hard to a much more opinionated approach, leading to Gnome 2 forks like Cinnamon since KDE was still very underpolished. It’s a bit regrettable that all that effort was poured into Gnome forks instead of improving KDE especially considering how great it is now.

Having a company behind software means you can pay to have your bugs fixed. Big distros want that stability for their corporate customers. It’s no secret or anything. KDE has sponsors, but doesn’t have a direct relationship with a huge contractor like RH. Same reasoning for systemd.

Politics, basically.

This is the advantage to GNOME. I know that all I need to make a Linux desktop work the way I want is to install GNOME and GSconnect. I really like default GNOME, adwaita, and the actually usable out-of-the-box experience. Sure there’s a learning curve but that’s true of every desktop and I really hate the context menu hell that KDE imported over from Windows.

Not to mention there are still a lot of amateur mistakes over at KDE like the recent themes fiasco.

People who want the customizability of KDE will use the KDE spin or a distro that ships it by default. People downloading a massively popular distro like Fedora should get something as maximally functional as possible out of the box, and with all the stuff they’ve been adding recently, GNOME is more and more polished almost to a macOS point. I just recently found the built-in RDP, SSH, and filesharing toggles in the settings menu, and they’re easy enough that I’d actually call GNOME quite beginner friendly at this point.

you could just use the gnome fedora spin, this is just about making it not the default.

The reason this is feasible now, is that KDE is changing the release cycle for Plasma, Frameworks, and the Apps to all be aligned with the sometime-before-the-distro-release 6-month cycle, that allows for a release of everything KDE to be taken, tested properly, and released with the 6-month release cycle for Ubuntu, Fedora and other distros following that release cycle. Until recently, we would have the releases of these components all separate throughout the year, meaning that it would be harder for the distros to package, test and ship Plasma as a flagship desktop because of stability concerns (also because of bugs).

Now, with Plasma 6 being all about making Plasma better and more stable, especially in the Wayland department, I’d say Plasma is superior to GNOME in every way (except funding). At this point, it’s not too unrealistic to see distros consider the switch to Plasma, including major distros like Fedora, as seen here. I really think this is the best time to consider using Plasma over GNOME.

Have you?

sadly.