New Linux Kernel Drama: Torvalds Drops Bcachefs Support After Clash
(news.itsfoss.com)
from carlos@communick.news to linux@lemmy.ml on 30 Jun 10:18
https://communick.news/post/3593567
from carlos@communick.news to linux@lemmy.ml on 30 Jun 10:18
https://communick.news/post/3593567
Things have taken a bad turn for Bcachefs as Linux supremo Linus Torvalds is not happy with their objections.
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Ah, sorry to read - I like the idea of Bcachefs and would have been happy to have it ready for production eventually.
OTOH it seems the recent years I read more about the drama about Bcachefs commits to the kernel, than about any technical parts of Bcachefs.
Good for him. It’s a reminder that the rules apply to everybody.
Took me way too long to figure out this stuff is called B Cache FS and not BCA Chefs.
Thanks, I too thought about the worst cooking software ever😂
I still read it as BCA Chefs every time.
Well I didn’t…
Can’t wait for a new Brodie-video on this topic. Stay tuned for some comments.
“no features in RCs” is a very basic rule, this was a forgone conclusion. If these features were so integral to data integrity, he should have kept bcachefs out of the kernel until they were ready.
There is no reason that Kent Overstreet needed to do this.
I love bcachefs but I am so angry at him for making this happen.
There is in this case, and why Linus did accept the patch in the end. Previous cases less so though which is why Linus is so pissed at this one.
The reason for this new feature is to help fix data loss on users systems - which is a fine line between a bug and a new feature really. There is precedent for this type on thing in RC releases from other filesystems as well. So the issue in this instance is a lot less black and white.
That doesn’t excuse previous behaviour though.
Honestly, not even in this case (especially given the history). Kent has a kernel tree people can pull if they need to. If it is an emergency, point people there.
The problem is that kent is a bullshitter and acted like he doesnt get what a feature freeze is. If he cant communicate with linus as to why his patch is actually bugfix then he cant contribute to the kernel.
Sort of the ultimate fuck around and find out.
My uneducated kernel take. Flexibility is acceptable and desirable in small projects or low impact projects.
When the majority of the internet and a good chunk of PC are dependent on your project, predictability and stability is much more important than flexibility.
Reading all the comments (between Kent and Linux), the problem is that the bcachefs dev thinks that his project (the filesystem) is the critically important one and that the Linux kernel needs to bend to his will.
I am a bcachefs user but it is pretty damn obvious to me that the production Linux kernel is more important than an experimental filesystem.
Yeah, this one is on Kent… again.
He posted on Patreon that there’ll be a DKMS module. In my opinion, this should have been the option from the very beginning and upstreaming at a later point in time. It would have avoided a lot of drama. And now bcachefs is kind of tainted. The only way I ever see it back in mainline is there is an independent downstream of Kent’s kernel that has no connection to him whatsoever.
Shame because I had very good experience with the filesystem. Definitely better than when btrfs was new. But Linus is unfortunately right; Kent is unable to follow agreed collaboration rules.
Unfortunate situation that could have been avoided entirely. Though I don’t want to be too harsh on Kent. He spent a lot of time and work on bcachefs and it’s his most important project. As such, he’s more passionate about all of this. But the same can be said for Linus and the kernel on the other side.
Good I didn’t choose bcachefs
It’s an interesting filesystem, but you shouldn’t use it at this point unless you know what the hell you’re doing. You’ll need to be able to notice, report and help resolve bugs, and under no circumstances use it for production or where you can’t afford to lose some or all of the data on the partition.
True
…which makes Overstreet’s argument for urgency even weirder.
Anyone else here actively put off by Linux drama and headlines like “Torvalds Drops support After Clash!”
EDIT: New rule?
This is a non-issue, being over-reported by people looking for clicks. A minor technical matter being handled by the person ultimately responsible for handling such things
Yeah for sure there’s ton of clickbait, but this isn’t “a minor technical matter”. The news here isn’t the clash over whether the patch should be accepted in the RC branch, but the fact that Linus said he wants to remove bcachefs from the kernel tree.
An experimental capability being kicked out of the kernel, so that it has to settle for being a kernel module or custom forks of the kernel, is absolutely a minor matter
As somebody that uses this filesystem, I disagree.
That’s just like your opinion man.
Filesystems are incredibly antiquated, and while I don’t agree with Kent’s attitude, it is very important in the long run that filesystems catch back up.
As it stands just about any enterprise system you can poke a stick at is rolling their own customised file storage system, with a traditional filesystem typically being a misshapen dead weight sitting somewhere in the middle of it - existing because it’s the only thing the kernel can integrate with.
It is pretty important that this trend reverses, and bcachefs was a big step in the right direction. Unfortunate that Kent is the way he is.
Put off in what way?
Please don’t sealion me.
Don’t you dare turn this around on me.
It’s annoying to be treated that way isn’t it?
Annoying in the sense that I don’t understand what you are trying to say.
I’m really glad Torvalds is the kind of person to flip articles like this off and carry on with his day and just not be affected by it at all. When the time comes, I hope whoever carries the torch is just as well.
That’s a good point, I have no doubt Linux would not be in the position it is if he were more sensitive to it.
At the very least, it would be far more of a circus, as the follow-up articles would read “LINUX KERNEL CREATOR LINUS TORVALDS MAKES DEVESTATING REPLY TO FOSS DRAMA!”
But yeah, I think shit like that would just make devs want to go work for a company, because at least when they make a shitty closed sourced, exploitive program people are mad at the company, not them, specifically. They don’t have to deal with this shit.
I don’t see any drama. It’s just people working together, having different priorities yet still getting things done. Some friction is to be expected.
This is literally literally a drama article
Ok, my mistake. I didn’t express myself correctly. I wasn’t referring to the article but to the communication between developers.