Owljfien@lemm.ee
on 22 May 2024 00:14
nextcollapse
Some compositors haven’t updated yet to my knowledge. I think KDE has something in the aur but not the wider release until their 6.1 release in June. I’m not 100% though
Molecular0079@lemmy.world
on 22 May 2024 17:26
collapse
You’re correct. While the stable version of KDE Wayland is usable right now with the new driver with no flickering issues, etc., it technically does not have the necessary patches needed for explicit sync. Nvidia has put some workarounds in the 555 driver code to prevent flickering without explicit sync, but they’re slower code paths.
The AUR has a package called kwin-explicit-sync, which is just the latest stable kwin with the explicit sync patches applied. This combined with the 555 drivers makes explicit sync work, finally solving the flickering issues in a fast performant way.
I’ve tested with both kwin and kwin-explicit-sync and the latter has dramatically improved input latency. I am basically daily driving Wayland now and it is awesome.
Wait Wayland is bad on Nvidia in the dark times before today?
atocci@kbin.social
on 22 May 2024 04:33
nextcollapse
I've not been having a pleasant experience with it, but X11 has its own share of issues as well. They have different issues though, my problems in Wayland are not identical to the problems i have with X11. PopOS under Wayland has been the most usable so far, but I'm hoping that when this update hits the stable branch it'll finally make Bazzite practical as my main OS.
I can't use my two monitors on X11 because they're different refresh rates unfortunately. I'd have to either lower the refresh rate of my main monitor to match my secondary monitor (ew) or disable my secondary monitor completely. I get the flickering in Wayland also sadly.
Oh yeah for sure, it works great when I set my monitors to the same refresh rate, but I'd prefer to not have to do that because it's a pretty big difference between them. My secondary monitor is 165hz, but my primary monitor is 360hz, and trying to run them at their native refresh rates at the same time in X11 doesn't work at all. I'd have to set the 360hz monitor down to 165hz to match my secondary monitor before things become usable.
XWayland (and therefore Zoom, IntelliJ IDEA, any game that runs on Wine, etc) has been borderline unusable for years due to Nvidia not supporting the way a system synchronises its rendering with the GPU, but recently all of the changes that facilitate a newer, better (and most importantly, a directly supported by Nvidia) way of synchronising got merged. This driver is the final piece of the puzzle and I can confirm that all Xwayland flickering has gone away for me.
Nvidia didn’t implement implicit sync because it was stupid and also didn’t really solve anything, it still had performance issues.
The real problem with explicit sync wasn’t Nvidia, it was the fact everything and everybody has to implement it. This problem was worse under a stack like Wayland where every piece has to reinvent the wheel.
The missing piece of the puzzle wasn’t one piece, it was all of them: explicit sync had to be implemented in the kernel, and in drivers, and in graphical libraries, and in compositors, and in apps and so on.
Nvidia released it after it was stable in the kernel.
They don’t care about Wayland or any other userland applications except their own. They don’t have to schedule their development around Wayland, why would they? It’s an emerging stack that’s not yet in use across all the Linux desktop, which is like 1% of their user base anyway.
Great points. Especially the last one, there’s been a lot of vitriol directed at Nvidia lately for “dragging their heels” or whatever, but I don’t blame them for not wanting to implement a crappy stopgap and I certainly do not blame them for the time it took to get e.g the Wayland protocol merged. I think people simply love complaining in the Linux community.
rotopenguin@infosec.pub
on 24 May 2024 03:19
collapse
There’s a simple solution. Open up your drivers Nvidia, like Intel and AMD have done.
bruhduh@lemmy.world
on 22 May 2024 08:53
nextcollapse
Last piece of puzzle is to add cli mtp support on wayland, i have 2 laptops one on AMD and second on Nvidia and with wayland on AMD while Nvidia with x11, and i can’t use jdupes on my mtp connections on wayland and i can’t “cd” into mtp connection while gui apps doing fine on wayland
Not if you need color management. Anyone who creates anything could use color management.
winterayars@sh.itjust.works
on 25 May 2024 16:28
collapse
Doesn’t KDE basically have color management with 6 or 6.1 or something?
muhyb@programming.dev
on 21 May 2024 21:07
nextcollapse
I recently tried Wayland and it was not so pleasant experience. Guess I’ll try again soon.
shaytan@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 22 May 2024 18:35
collapse
There was no sync at all in the last drivers, now we have good sync, it should be nice smooth experience once everything updates
muhyb@programming.dev
on 22 May 2024 21:16
collapse
Heh, I tried the NVK driver just out of curiosity and it worked better than proprietary driver for Wayland. I wonder if this update would make that level of smoothness.
shaytan@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 27 May 2024 15:40
collapse
NVK is great overall, for gaming eeeeh, no, sadly. I think it’s getting improvements for vulkan gaming
But 555 beta is already much better than 550 on wayland
muhyb@programming.dev
on 27 May 2024 15:46
collapse
Well, I tried gaming but best it can do is mid-tier gaming. Still impressive though.
That’s good to hear. Hopefully they release final version soon.
atocci@kbin.social
on 21 May 2024 21:33
nextcollapse
How can I update to this beta driver in Bazzite?
SuperIce@lemmy.world
on 21 May 2024 22:24
nextcollapse
I think we Fedora users just have to wait for RPMFusion to roll out the updated driver. Not entirely sure if they only use Stable branch drivers or not though. I’m used to Arch where it would just be in the AUR within the hour…
I’ve been refreshing half the uBlue repos a lot today in the hopes there’s some commits showing they’re rolling the drivers out for Bluefin quickly 😂
Explicit sync is a software thing. It’s how the software stack queues frame rendering. As long as the driver version that implements it covers your card model it will work.
Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
on 22 May 2024 18:25
collapse
Let’s goo. Thanks for the info. I may have confused it with vrr but idk tbh
walthervonstolzing@lemmy.ml
on 22 May 2024 08:06
nextcollapse
What’s up with the Fedora font on the ‘explicit sync’ though? Hmmm…
daddyjones@lemmy.world
on 22 May 2024 09:35
nextcollapse
How long do these drivers usually take to move out of beta?
Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
on 22 May 2024 13:50
nextcollapse
Everyone so excited while I’m here sitting with gt1030 that most likely doesn’t even support vrr
MicrondeMMMMMMM@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 22 May 2024 17:00
nextcollapse
Did they fixed the kernel panic problem that persisted in the last two versions? I don’t dare to try it, last month their proprietary driver has almost destroyed my machine.
threaded - newest
YOOO!!
I can’t wait to get home for this! I’m going to try to use VRR again too, see how it plays with that.
Got home, it’s working really well. Like, I’m super pleased!
VRR still needs testing on my system. I know that there’s yet to be a fix for multi-monitor VRR. I still need to test with a single monitor, though.
.
Does that mean I can switch to Wayland from x11??
Yes, now is actually a pretty nice experience using Wayland with this driver
i’ve heard that one a few times before.
Some compositors haven’t updated yet to my knowledge. I think KDE has something in the aur but not the wider release until their 6.1 release in June. I’m not 100% though
You’re correct. While the stable version of KDE Wayland is usable right now with the new driver with no flickering issues, etc., it technically does not have the necessary patches needed for explicit sync. Nvidia has put some workarounds in the 555 driver code to prevent flickering without explicit sync, but they’re slower code paths.
The AUR has a package called kwin-explicit-sync, which is just the latest stable kwin with the explicit sync patches applied. This combined with the 555 drivers makes explicit sync work, finally solving the flickering issues in a fast performant way.
I’ve tested with both kwin and kwin-explicit-sync and the latter has dramatically improved input latency. I am basically daily driving Wayland now and it is awesome.
Wait Wayland is bad on Nvidia in the dark times before today?
I've not been having a pleasant experience with it, but X11 has its own share of issues as well. They have different issues though, my problems in Wayland are not identical to the problems i have with X11. PopOS under Wayland has been the most usable so far, but I'm hoping that when this update hits the stable branch it'll finally make Bazzite practical as my main OS.
X11 on Bazzite is perfectly working for me. Wayland was causing too many apps to flicker.
I can't use my two monitors on X11 because they're different refresh rates unfortunately. I'd have to either lower the refresh rate of my main monitor to match my secondary monitor (ew) or disable my secondary monitor completely. I get the flickering in Wayland also sadly.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/6f86106f-3686-4b7b-a716-d1c335f27f53.jpeg">
Both monitors are working perfectly for me on x11 using the 165 refresh rate.
Oh yeah for sure, it works great when I set my monitors to the same refresh rate, but I'd prefer to not have to do that because it's a pretty big difference between them. My secondary monitor is 165hz, but my primary monitor is 360hz, and trying to run them at their native refresh rates at the same time in X11 doesn't work at all. I'd have to set the 360hz monitor down to 165hz to match my secondary monitor before things become usable.
That sucks man.
XWayland (and therefore Zoom, IntelliJ IDEA, any game that runs on Wine, etc) has been borderline unusable for years due to Nvidia not supporting the way a system synchronises its rendering with the GPU, but recently all of the changes that facilitate a newer, better (and most importantly, a directly supported by Nvidia) way of synchronising got merged. This driver is the final piece of the puzzle and I can confirm that all Xwayland flickering has gone away for me.
Nvidia didn’t implement implicit sync because it was stupid and also didn’t really solve anything, it still had performance issues.
The real problem with explicit sync wasn’t Nvidia, it was the fact everything and everybody has to implement it. This problem was worse under a stack like Wayland where every piece has to reinvent the wheel.
The missing piece of the puzzle wasn’t one piece, it was all of them: explicit sync had to be implemented in the kernel, and in drivers, and in graphical libraries, and in compositors, and in apps and so on.
Nvidia released it after it was stable in the kernel.
They don’t care about Wayland or any other userland applications except their own. They don’t have to schedule their development around Wayland, why would they? It’s an emerging stack that’s not yet in use across all the Linux desktop, which is like 1% of their user base anyway.
Great points. Especially the last one, there’s been a lot of vitriol directed at Nvidia lately for “dragging their heels” or whatever, but I don’t blame them for not wanting to implement a crappy stopgap and I certainly do not blame them for the time it took to get e.g the Wayland protocol merged. I think people simply love complaining in the Linux community.
There’s a simple solution. Open up your drivers Nvidia, like Intel and AMD have done.
Last piece of puzzle is to add cli mtp support on wayland, i have 2 laptops one on AMD and second on Nvidia and with wayland on AMD while Nvidia with x11, and i can’t use jdupes on my mtp connections on wayland and i can’t “cd” into mtp connection while gui apps doing fine on wayland
Not if you need color management. Anyone who creates anything could use color management.
Doesn’t KDE basically have color management with 6 or 6.1 or something?
I recently tried Wayland and it was not so pleasant experience. Guess I’ll try again soon.
There was no sync at all in the last drivers, now we have good sync, it should be nice smooth experience once everything updates
Heh, I tried the NVK driver just out of curiosity and it worked better than proprietary driver for Wayland. I wonder if this update would make that level of smoothness.
NVK is great overall, for gaming eeeeh, no, sadly. I think it’s getting improvements for vulkan gaming
But 555 beta is already much better than 550 on wayland
Well, I tried gaming but best it can do is mid-tier gaming. Still impressive though.
That’s good to hear. Hopefully they release final version soon.
How can I update to this beta driver in Bazzite?
You can’t. Just wait for it to be stable
I think we Fedora users just have to wait for RPMFusion to roll out the updated driver. Not entirely sure if they only use Stable branch drivers or not though. I’m used to Arch where it would just be in the AUR within the hour…
I’ve been refreshing half the uBlue repos a lot today in the hopes there’s some commits showing they’re rolling the drivers out for Bluefin quickly 😂
Let’s go open source competition!
Does this support the gtx 1660?
www.nvidia.com/Download/…/en-us/ here’s the release notes, it includes the list of supported products.
It is supported 🤗
It also supports gt 1030 but I’m not sure if my gpu even supports explicit sync. I would appreciate any kind of answer.
Explicit sync is a software thing. It’s how the software stack queues frame rendering. As long as the driver version that implements it covers your card model it will work.
Let’s goo. Thanks for the info. I may have confused it with vrr but idk tbh
What’s up with the Fedora font on the ‘explicit sync’ though? Hmmm…
How long do these drivers usually take to move out of beta?
Everyone so excited while I’m here sitting with gt1030 that most likely doesn’t even support vrr
Let’s freaking gooooo!
Did they fixed the kernel panic problem that persisted in the last two versions? I don’t dare to try it, last month their proprietary driver has almost destroyed my machine.