Do you refrain from participating to a community if it's hosted on Lemmy.ml ?
from Blaze@feddit.org to newcommunities@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2024 09:49
https://feddit.org/post/3912054
from Blaze@feddit.org to newcommunities@lemmy.world on 19 Oct 2024 09:49
https://feddit.org/post/3912054
Asking as there has been a few comments mentioning this with the new !stardewvalley@lemm.ee taking over !stardewvalley@lemmy.ml
!yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com for additional context on those recent events if you are interested
Also, an older post for more context on how lemmy.ml is managed: lemmy.world/post/16211417
Curious to hear other thoughts about this, as I’m trying to keep !simracing@lemmy.ml active, but might suggest to move it elsewhere if a lot of people prefer not to interact with lemmy.ml communities
threaded - newest
I’ve blocked the instance quite a while ago. In the beginning I was just blocking communities, but the users spill everywhere unless you go nuclear.
Thanks for this info, I didn’t realize you could block an entire instance.
You can’t really. I mean you can block an instance, but that only hides the communities that are on it - you’ll still see the users. The only way I know how to ditch the users, besides blocking each one individually, would be to make a new account on either dubvee.org or Lemmy.cafe where all 3 of the big 3 are completely defederated. Think of those instances as troll-blockers, working hard to keep the Fediverse pleasant to converse in:-).
Completely banned, I have zero interaction with them.
I would vote for moving it elsewhere. Maybe lemmy.zip would be a good instance that’s focused around tech and gaming. Or discuss.tchncs.de because !trucksim@discuss.tchncs.de and !diysimulators@discuss.tchncs.de are already hosted there.
You are a very active poster here, so moving it to that instance would also be convenient in case you need to mod
Also, that instance is very well managed, always impressed with the other services they offer.
Based on the comments, it seems like we should definitely suggest this. Would you like to make a meta post or do I do it?
I’m busy this weekend. Feel free to go ahead with the post.
Done!
No, there are no instances whose communities I refuse to participate on. I have never blocked a community, user, or instance here.
Me too but clearly Lemmy.ml doesn’t like me xD
Oh man I don’t know how I would use this place if I couldn’t block communities. First few weeks I try to use Lemmy every single post was just memes so I’d end up blocking like two dozen communities to stop it.
Not to mention just randomly scrolling in public and whoops, it’s a random porn clip brought to you by lemmynsfw
In your Settings is an option to ban all content labelled as NSFW regardless of its origin.
*Besides the ones your instance has defederated from
i tend to not even notice, usually picking a community by volume of subs and posting. its hard to keep up with the terrible modding in places as ive subbed to over 800 active communities in various instances. i dont block instances. at minimum, i want to see whats going on.
i dont recall specific issues with .ml but .world seems specifically egregious with its power trip modding, based on how ive been 'reprimanded'.. its amazing how they want to kill activity/enthusiasm in some subs that are desperate for content.
it feels like once an instance gets a solid level of user account churn, they feel they can do whatever to end users as there will just be more. its reddit all over again in places.
the power modding is somewhat shocking to me as the threadiverse really isnt all that large. i guess it doesnt take much for those people.
some of the only users ive silenced are mods
I agree that lemmy.world moderation has issues. It can be arbitrary and the written rules don’t really matter. There’s also zero recourse.
I would recommend sh.itjust.works
lol
I was banned from a large sub there because I downvoted some clickbaity posts by the mod themselves. Literally that, downvoting.
Feel free to report it on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Seems like this is a Lemmy wide problem then. Things like this are social problems, not technical ones.
What community was it if you don’t mind?
Quite frankly I’d rather not say it, I don’t want to start shit/drama.
A wise decision.
Yes. I’ll read the content, but I try to avoid interacting.
Mind you, db0 himself is a tankie, although he doesn’t seem to insist on imposing that on the users or communities on his instance.EDIT: I stand corrected. Apologies to db0 for lumping him in with that crowd.
Db0 is more anarchist than tankie. Quite a few threads on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com complain about mod tripping from tankie mods or admins, they are still there. Shows that they don’t censor that topic, which is already an improvement
? @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Dafuq? I thinks that peep just uses “tankie” interchangeably with radical lefty or something. Ie they don’t know what they’re talking about
Most political slurs (“tankie”, “Nazi”, “fascist”, “communist”, “leftist”, “liberal”, “centrist”, etc.), if they ever even start from a position of actually knowing what the words mean, rapidly transform into a general slur that means “someone that I disagree with who’s in a different political tribe from me”.
db0 is many things, but a tankie is not one of them
They explicitly say they’re not and I’ve had a number of interactions that suggest otherwise. Where are you getting this idea from?
If you move sim racing, would you mind replying to me to let me know? I follow the current one just cause I think sim racing is neat. If it gets moved I’d love to follow the new one
(Totally fine if that’s too much work :)
We’ll probably post there so you should see it :)
Thanks!
Have a good one man! 😊
yup, blocked that instance.
it’s controlled by one or a very small group of people, and none of the rules are followed.
They definitely dance to their own tune. And also require that you do as well. Oh and they do not tell you what that is.
That instance got blocked from me a while ago together with Hexbear and Lemmygrad.
Whichever instance you choose, someone will have complaints about it. Personally I don’t have issues with .ml, but there are quite a few “tech”-oriented instances over which my trigger finger is itching on the site ban trigger.
It’s all a question of which subset of human stupidity you’re willing to deal with. Because all humans are stupid, we’re just different in how and where we express it.
Which ones? Lemmy.zip, lemdro.id, programming.dev?
I’m not going to name them. The point of this isn’t to expose which instances I dislike, but rather to show that every instance has its fans and its antifans.
I guess there’s a difference between not liking an instance, and the mods or admins power tripping and not following their own rules.
Sh.itjust.works for instance seems appreciated by almost everyone, except maybe for their name
In the case of the “tech”-oriented instances it’s actually the user base I find distasteful.
Okay but while everything has its downsides… not equally so.
What if one day you were no longer allowed to discuss Linux? Or Teslas? Or whatever else the admins decided were now forbidden topics? Btw without telling you what those topics are. Also, if you even so much as accidentally mention the names of such, you lose access to the entire Fediverse from your account (on that instance).
It doesn’t even matter what topic material the admins of lemmy.ml have decided to block - Russia, China, Ukraine, Uyghurs, Taiwan, North Korea, North Carolina, Israel, Palestine, Gaza, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that they have set themselves up as the arbiters of “truth(iness)” and ban anyone from every community across the entire instance, even those they have never even heard of.
And then they dictate those rules - which again, are nowhere written down, plus not all that easy to guess at (let’s see… the USA does genocide, but Russia does too? no wait, Russia can do no wrong - that’s it! Oh shit, too late, already banned!:-P) - and hold all of the content on every community across the entire instance hostage to those rules.
I came here from Reddit to get away from such. Oopsie, it’s here too.
Do whatever you want, ofc :-) I just hope that I explained this position well enough to convey that nuanced take that some actions are worth holding apart from others. This isn’t merely a minor inconvenience imho - it’s a major breach of the principles that many of us came here to support in the Fediverse, cited as being free and open source, except apparently the set of rules are not open to be read anywhere at all.
You know, before lecturing me you might want to check out which instance I’m coming in from.
I said “I don’t have issues with .ml” … but I’m not coming in from a .ml account. So when I say “I have no issues with .ml” it’s in the context of the original question: do I refrain participating if the community is hosted on .ml.
One of my sentences there was a hypothetical written as if that were the case yes, but I did note that you were not from there, and the rest pertains to people trying to communicate with communities on that instance. Anyway, do whatever you want - I tried to offer an interesting counterexample but I’m not going to try to brow-beat you with anything. This isn’t Reddit - we can leave those modes behind us, if we want.
My point is that there’s nothing specifically objectionable about .ml (to me, obviously). There’s many instances out there, after all, and all of them are at some risk or another form over- (or under-)zealous moderation. If a community is on .ml and seems to be valuable I’ll go to it, unlike, say, a community on a hypothetical instance called youngnazisforfreedom.sieg.heil or whatever. If the moderation causes issues, I’ll switch to a community (or make another community) on another instance.
THAT is to me the principle of the Fediverse: the ability to choose and to move on at need or will.
Well said.:-)
Yes, except a few selected communities I completely avoid interacting with lemmy.ml
So that should be a “no” really :)
For me it’s a no, but looking at my subscribed communities, i don’t have all that many ml communities in there tbh.
The ones that i like best and that don’t have a better alternative elsewhere are !crows@lemmy.ml and !openstreetmap@lemmy.ml and i guess the ones about lemmy itself and jerboa.
The way they seem to be banning people is worrying to me, the ml users i generally don’t have a problem with, but i’m avoiding politics.
For me it's FOSS og communities like !PeerTube or !librewolf that don't have alternatives on other instances neither
And that's completely understandable
Personally, I don’t. I get from your story that you seem to have been abusively banned, and from the comments that it doesn’t seem like an isolate case. But while that might deter me from making an account there, or at most from having a community hosted there, it’s not like anything bad comes to me from merely interacting with .ml content. The only servers worth blocking in my opinion are those full of spammers, or of content I’d personally hate to see in any situation.
Interestingly enough, I don’t really have issues with lemmy.ml myself
I never brought up political topics on any of their communities, so I am fine until now
Yep. To a certain extent I don’t care what your political views are, but if you’re always trolling and putting them up in my face. And have no integrity rules wise, I’m blocking.
No. I have blocked a few specific lemmy.ml communities but I don’t generally avoid interacting with lemmy.ml.
There are other instances I have blocked completely (a certain grad).
Blocked the whole thing on my instance.
I’m more of an anarchist and I’ve not had issues with hexbear or .ml, though I don’t block lemmygrad I’m not subbed to most of their communities mostly because sectarianism bothers me.
I feel like I always have to check if I’m posting on something that’s on .world because even relatively mild off-color humor can get removed as “incivility” if it rubs a mod the wrong way.
No, because its nonsense tribalism. I haven’t seen any actual consistency in nonsense takes between any particular instances, with only a couple of extreme examples (explodingheads, grad, yddrasil, etc) that are already blocked or dehosted. ML has more socialists, because lemmy was a little leftist community project at first and it’s one of the oldest and biggest instances. Big instances also have a lot of idiots. World has a reputation for a lot of idiots, because it’s by far the biggest instance. That doesn’t mean everyone, or even most people, are idiots that are on the instance.
It's full of Tankies spewing disinformation and ban you for moderate stances. Take their news community for example.
Before I completely defederated from them, their “news” communities were the first ones I ever had to administratively remove/hide because it was nothing but propaganda and bad faith posts.
Omg you defederated from them - that’s amazing! I’ve been going around saying that lemmy.cafe is the only instance I’ve ever even heard of that has done so, but now I can add dubvee.org to that list as well.
Damn, you keep impressing the hell out of me!:-P Every time I dig deeper, there’s always another thing to like below that!:-)
Lol, thanks. I just try to curate the best experience as I can for my instance.
Re: Defederation
<img alt="" src="https://dubvee.org/pictrs/image/d59d7504-fa08-4fd7-b7a1-033a86e11de0.webp">
Lolz so true!!:-)
<img alt="img" src="https://i.imgflip.com/2e5bl4.jpg">
No thank you, I would pay to avoid that actually! 😆
When the admins spend more time banning people for speaking against fascist russia than developing lemmy it doesn’t matter what the userbase is like. And not wanting to participate in an instance where the admins religiously scan every comment for wrongthink is pretty reasonable and not tribalism.
This is the biggest flaw with Lemmy at the moment.
I think I’m on my 4th account . Mods tend to block me befor I block them, because I don’t adhere to tribal rules.
I’m probably anarchist / socialist politically but I call out bullshit when I see it. People don’t like that.
I’m only an idiot when I fully intend to be one.
I don’t have anything against .ml users as a whole. As you say, every instance has its bad apples.
But .ml has the most hostile and heavy-handed admins of any instance I know of. It makes it impossible to have real conversations because talking about certain topics will get you instantly banned from the whole instance. It’s not about socialism either. In fact that’s part of the problem—I’m a leftist myself who would like to discuss leftism there and I used to enjoy doing so, but at this point that’s only possible if you follow the admin’s ideological beliefs on practically everything to a tee. It’s a toxic environment where real conversations can’t take place.
Ignoring reality doesn’t make it less true. Certain groups of people or environments are worse than others, acting like that isn’t reality is pretty naive.
If there was a pro slavery, racist group would you say they deserve to be respected, of course not. There is a line, we just disagree on where it is. And calling that disagreement tribalism is simply trying to hand wave away valid criticism.
I block all .ml communities when I see them pop up. I'm somewhere between 200-300 blocked communities at the moment (not exclusively .ml though).
Yes.
Lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net definitely.
Lemmy.ml has some less-bonkers communities, but !worldnews@lemmy.ml generates some of the most complaints, and I’m willing to paint with a broad brush on this one. There’s only one community that I can think of that I regret not using and doesn’t presently have a non-lemmy.ml alternative, and that’s !mechanicalkeyboards@lemmy.ml, and !ergomechkeyboards@lemmy.world has overlap. Also, aside from issues with instance policy, I think that lemmy.ml in particular is not a great instance for major communities, because it’s the “dev” instance and Lemmy has had some serious periods of problems where stuff slipped through testing and led to major problems in new releases. Lemmy.world did not hit this, because the admins there are more-conservative about updating, held off until they were sure that new releases were solid. My own home instance at lemmy.today crashed into repeated serious problems with new releases, and the admin decided that in the future, he would also be more conservative about updates.
I also think that it’s broader than disagreeing with someone. I’m not a furry or trans, for example, but I’ve no problem with pawb.social or lemmy.blahaj.zone and have never seen any complaints about moderation on those special-interest instances. However, there’s an entire community, !MeanwhileOnGrad@sh.itjust.works, that highlights a lot of moderation and infighting stuff that often I’d call pretty unreasonable off in .ml land. Beehaw.org is pretty left-wing, but they’re pretty mellow and don’t have the same issues (though they themselves have defederated with a number of major lemmy instances, including, most notably, lemmy.world).
That being said, a number of major lemmy instances have defederated with lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net, and I chose my home instance of lemmy.today specifically because it did not defederate with instances. I want to personally make the call on instance content and on users on an instance. I’ve only ever blocked one user, and they were just relentlessly spamming images in communities, and I’ve never blocked an instance. I normally just view communities by subscribed, look at a “whitelist” of communities, not “all” plus a blacklist, though.
EDIT: Oh, and !kagi@lemmy.ml doesn’t presently have an alternative, and I’d definitely participate in a non-.ml alternative.
Thank you for pointing this out, that’s a good point
I have seen complaints about them, but they seem relatively minor and resulting from an overzealous attempt to protect their users, which I find understandable. I have never had anything but pleasant conversations with Ada the instance admin of lemmy.blahaj.zone and have thoroughly enjoyed everything I’ve ever read from them.
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no, I’m subbed to many communities on .ml
This is something that that bothers me… I joined lemmy.ml around 3 years ago as one of the pirate subs on reddit made a backup community there in case they were banned.
Fast forward to the api debacle, I started to use lemmy as a permanent alternative, and made 3 of my favourite art communities- abstract photography, collage and printmaking
It’s always been in the back (and sometimes the front of my mind) whether to move them elsewhere, partly because people commenting on their ‘blanket ban’ of lemmy.ml, and the fact that I sometimes feel that I’m on one of the ‘pariah’ instances.
It’s interesting reading the comments here, especially considering the art communities are laid back, without politics, and haven’t had any issues (so far)…
Moving communities is always an option.
We moved !casualconversation@lemmy.world to !casualconversation@lemm.ee a while ago, it worked fine, it’s even more active now that it used to be as there is no delay due to LW size
Yep, it’s something that has occurred to me, I’ve got an idea of which instance and all that, but I’d probably need to speak with the admins. I don’t know whether communities can migrate over posts/comments etc and part of me is reluctant to leave all that behind… BUT, I’ve done it once from scratch, so it’s not impossible
I do agree that art subs in general are among the most politics-free areas of lemmy, (speaking as a moderator of traditional art)
I have mostly refrained from posting political art, even though I do really like a good caricature (I grew up on Spitting Image, and other British satire progs), and also political art is, well… art
But, people come to see the nice pictures and chill out for a bit, which is fair, and it’s good to have that as a community
Although if other people either get banned as a result of saying something about China or Russia etc., or they choose for themselves to defederate somehow, then over time that is an increasing number of people across the Fediverse who cannot enjoy that artwork.
It’s like… what if the Library of Alexandria had made some copies and sent it out to remote places, before being (accidentally?) burned down by Julius Caesar during his civil war?
If that artwork is important to be seen by people everywhere, then why allow it to be held hostage by an admin team that could at any moment add still more things to the unnamed list of topics that are forbidden to be discussed on that instance? China, Russia, Uyghurs, Ukraine, Israel, Palestine, Gaza, Taiwan, and… what else will it be tomorrow?
You might even say something that gets taken out of context and be banned from the entire instance yourself. “Killing Uyghurs is not the best work I have seen” - no no, I meant that killing them isn’t happening at all, I was referring to the title of the painting!?
Well, it’s something to consider. I hope I am not coming across here as being too extreme, just trying to offer some thoughts along the lines that you mentioned that you have already started, in case it would be appreciated.:-)
Not at all, you’ve basically summed up how I feel, plus added something I hadn’t considered which is what would happen if I was banned from .ml for a post or comment. I’ve got a few days holiday to have a think about it all and also ask the community… I don’t want to make top down ‘executive decisions’ without consultation
Cheers 👍
Indeed it is good to think ahead, rather than make rash decisions:-).
I mentioned elsewhere, to the developers of PieFed that I will switch to, that Dessalines is still an ally in the flight against for-profit corporate control over everything, e.g. Reddit, Facebook, Threads, X, etc. But while I have ENORMOUS respect for having offered the Lemmy codebase, the way he runs his personal instance… it’s not all good, nor all bad, but definitely does have more worrisome elements than most Lemmy or Mastodon instances.
The lack of transparency in governance in particular, as well as how heavy-handed it is, and again the fact that the unwritten rules are so hard to guess at, and could change at any time. It leaves people feeling insecure in the situation, which seems to make it unreliable, unless you constantly dance to his tune, which he never states quite what that is. And even if you never so much as mention e.g. Ukraine or Uyghurs or Gaza, the fact that someone else in your community could, and therefore mandatorily become booted from the community (along with the entire instance), is not ideal. The rules merely state that Lemmy.ml is “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers.” - but there’s far more (politics) going on besides that.
At least Reddit was more honest about Huffman’s opinion - “you are landed gentry and I will harvest your data and no longer allow third-party apps unless they pay my exorbitant fee”. Okay… good to know I guess.
Anyway, if I helped any then I am glad ☺️.
For me it was a blanket ban that finally caused me to unsubscribe from every ml community. If it wasn’t for that then it might be OK to keep hosting a non-political sub but the censorship over there is so aggressive and widespread that it’s very difficult to avoid.
I would say think about migration because if anything the problem is getting worse over time.
Yes!
That instance just has a stink on it.
I’m sure there’s some normal users or communities bit there’s a lot who are just plain unpleasant to interact with.
I don’t refrain from participating in Lemmy.ml community unless the mods of that community act like the admins do. The majority of users aren’t my issue with Lemmy.ml at least on the non political communities, it’s the admin’s suppression of opposition
This succinctly covers my view on it as well. I think it’ll be more of a problem a few years down the road as statist admin culture begins to influence the mods of more instances, but for now I treat it on an instance-by-instance, user-by-user basis. I wouldn’t be surprised if majority of community leaders and users in general went to lemmy.ml simply because it was one of the larger instances last year and didn’t think much more of it than that.
If I have a choice, though, I’ll still try to grow a community on one of the smaller instances simply because it’s still one of the largest ones, and that’s better for the health of the network.
I have the instance blocked. Nice thing about Lemmy, you can vote with your attention. When toxic bubbles pop up, you can ignore them en masse. Any collateral blocking doesn’t bother me. [insert Nazi party meme]
I have fomo so I don’t block anything. I’ll downvote and move on if I see something that I feel needs a downvote
Instance blocked it. The mods are corrupt and actively shape conversation to align with their world view, without transparency.
It’s fine to disagree, and want respectful discourse, but it isn’t ok to use very vague sidebar rules to scour dissent
Lemmy.ml is the only instance block I have, after seeing too many illiberal shit takes, bad faith arguments and socialist astroturf posts.
My instance quickly defederated from HexBear and LemmyGrad which is just fine by me, it’s helpful most of the bad eggs are concentrated in just a few places.
Do you might if I ask how you accomplished that - by using some app? Or did you just mean the standard Lemmy instance block, which blocks only communities hosted there but none of the users especially their comments everywhere across the Fediverse?
PieFed allows custom user instance blocks, of whatever instance you choose, and I think Mbin at least used to (although I also saw a bug report saying that it doesn't work right now). And Tesseract on dubvee.org and lemmy.cafe have specifically defederated from lemmy.ml, but I was curious what other methods would work as well.
Correct, just the communities. I still see .ml user posts and comments in other communities, which is tolerable. Plenty of them are fine. For the that aren’t, the heckler’s veto sometimes keeps the dumber narratives at bay.
I appreciate that instance labels carry some meaning of how a user is likely to act.
Yeah, that does help - e.g. if people started defederating lemmy.ml, then all the Hexbear users that went there after being defederated from many popular instances would make alts on other platforms and it would be much harder to avoid their continual trolling:-).
And yes I've previously had several quite pleasant conversations with people from lemmy.ml, though I have now managed to leave them behind by moving to PieFed.social where I can block the entire instance. I will block many innocent users that way but... I am okay with that, compared to the alternative of having to put up with each new one that comes along and harasses people. Many people of conscience are fleeing that instance anyway, and the rest have most definitely been warned so it's their choice, but I am not letting their recalcitrance dictate my own choices in turn:-).
I refrain from participating in and even from looking at any community that generates anxiety and/or anger, or that encourage or don’t oppose what I consider destructive or hostile behaviors. I consider time too precious to waste mine with the kind of persons who enjoy those things.
It is not related to any specific place, though. It’s mostly a question of the persons participating and of the moderators.
I try to share links to other instance’s communities if there’s similar ones that aren’t drastically smaller. This is because it’s very easy to be banned on many ml communities as has been documented and posted many times
Also blocked it.
hell i went one step further and abandoned lemmy entirely for mbin
What’s the difference. Asking because I really don’t know. Lemmy, kbin, mbin, … what makes one better than the other, besides lemmy being (or having been?) actively developed by tankies?
kbin has a few extra bells and whistles, like it can also do mastodon-style "microblogging" and custom themes per user. it's since ceased developement but mbin is a fork continuing it. other than that, the experience is the same
Are there any good mobile apps (iOS) that support all mbin features?
i'm not sure, i'm sorry. i just use the web interface as a PWA
No worries, just would’ve been neat, if you knew any.
Fwiw, I just abandoned Lemmy in favor of PieFed. It allows you to block whatever custom instance you want - in my case Lemmy.ml - it has "categories" of communities so you don't have to browse on All, it has a "reputation" feature that puts icons next to users doing patterns of extremely obvious trolling (like a <1-month old account with negative karma - note that such are not "banned", merely "labelled", so that you can make your own determination of what to do or not about such), and it has a fairly polished interface. It has its quirks, like searching for a user is different than searching for posts, but it keeps improving all the time and the developers are extremely receptive to feedback.
Unlike Lemmy, where 0.19 was supposed to allow user filtering of instances, but what was delivered in 0.19.3 fell far short of desires, then 0.19.5 rolled back what little protections had been previously offered. At this point I don't think you'll ever be able to block all users from lemmy.ml, so long as you remain where you are. Lemmy.world admins could do it, but it seems highly doubtful so long as certain communities such as !Firefox@lemmy.ml are located there.
Lemmy.cafe and Tesseract on dubvee.org have defederated from lemmy.ml though. And maybe some apps allows user-level defederation I dunno. So those seem to be your options - which aren't a lot but at least they exist!:-)
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Well, he’s on fedia.io, so I assume that he recommends that.
Keep in mind that that’s an mbin instance. It has a different UI (much of which, though not all of which, I like), but last I looked, which was some time back, didn’t have mobile client support other than a PWA. That may or may not be significant to you, depending upon your usage. It also has native support for Mastodon-style microblogging.
Your home instance is a lemmy instance, so it’ll look and work somewhat-differently.
My main irritation with the mbin UI last I looked was the difficulty of bringing up the subscriptions list. On the other hand, it did a collection of other things that I liked that lemmy presently does not, like permitting resizing inline images.
i totally get that, although being able to resub to all the same categories beats starting from scratch entirely somewhere else. my experience at fedia.io has been great so far
It depends what you are looking for. dbzer0.com I see a lot so remaining there is an option too. lemm.ee is similar in not wanting to defederate from anything, and damn if they don’t mean it so like they don’t even block lemmygrad.ml like virtually every other instance across the Fediverse.
Or go with a theme - StarTrek.website, programming.dev, etc. Or location.
If you want to block all 3 of the most toxic instances including lemmy.ml, there are only 2 that I have heard of that do so: dubvee.org and Lemmy.cafe. I may switch to one of those myself even.:-) The latter is pure Lemmy while the former runs an alternative UI (Tesseract) geared for streamlined multimedia, and may one day also run the Sublinks backend rather than Lemmy, though that doesn’t seem ready.
Other thoughts include PieFed and Mbin, which you should at least check out before deciding. The latter combines the ability to look at Lemmy and also Mastodon with the same account / on the same instance. PieFed is more a Lemmy replacement, with a variety of other goodies like Pixelfed (a “Decentralized photo sharing social media” platform) that tie in to it, and they are about to release a short video hosting service as well.
Sorry if this is too much - at least it’s so fucking cool to have it many awesome options to choose from! As excessive capitalism enshittifies everything for the sake of pure profiteering, the plethora of free and open source alternatives is a great sign for the future!:-)
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Click “Blocked” at lemmy.cafe/instances - they barely block anything except those big 3. Unless they do it without it appearing there, which is possible, but highly doubtful. In any case it looks awesome from that perspective.
Also the welcoming messages at the top of the server are amazing - “Have you installed ublock origin?”, “check out !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca”, etc.
Mbin I think doesn’t “block” even places such as Chapotraphouse - or at least Kbin did not - but it uses an entirely alternative voting scheme with “favorites” rather than upvotes and “reduces” rather than downvotes. That means that the popularity of something is only determined by the people on other Mbin/Kbin servers, with the upvote information still visible but not used by the sorting schemes. Also, the identity of people who use “reduces” against you are visible, so you can block them rather than have to suffer in silence, if they are super annoying about it e.g. reducing everything you’ve done without regards to its content. But yeah, I don’t know about actually hiding messages from people from particular instances - that’s what we are wanting here, and I imagine that if it is not doable now then it hopefully would be in the works?
I also don’t think I want Mastodon… or maybe I do? But anyway I don’t think we need it from the same account. Lemmy is topic-based rather than person-centered and that seems to make the most sense to me. Likewise Discord and Slack, but those are more unwieldy e.g. not indexed by search engines (such as DuckDuckGo, what else would I mean by that?:-P).
PieFed sounds the best in theory due to high integration with all those other services. Unless I end up not using or wanting those other services? I haven’t so far… then again they’re all so brand-new.
Sublinks sounds really exciting - you can even view a working demo - as it has been for the last half year with no updates that I’ve seen. Perhaps any day now… maybe…
And until my instance upgraded from 0.19.3 to 0.19.5 I enjoyed the Lemmy web UI. Now I dislike it - for a long reply (as I am wont to make myself:-D) up and downvote counts can be multiple (and variable!) screen rolls / pages away from the buttons on the bottom, and sometimes are on the right of the screen while other times on the left, having been wrapped around by a long name - go home UI, u r drunk! 😜
dubvee.org has iirc a single owner, which is usually not a sign of stability - but damn it is impressive! dubvee.org/about he did it all, then doesn’t even accept donations for it and guides people to give to other projects instead - that’s the opposite of capitalism, not just making fun of capitalism as people do on lemmy.ml constantly but rather living one’s literal and actual life according to one’s principles. Also I think he’s stated somewhere that he’ll switch to Sublinks rather than Lemmy as the backend when it’s ready. So… it’s a strong option as well, if a bit outside of the Lemmy ecosphere, and yet fully within the Fediverse and fully compatible with Lemmy, plus like PieFed additional multimedia enhancements of its own.
Blocked instance… They can figure their stuff out without me because I don’t want anything to do with them.
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Blocked the instance along with hexbear. So I think it would be good to drain the good communities from them if you can.
Yes. I’ve had personal experience, many times, of over the top censorship and bans based on opposing views expressed in a mature and rational way. Once or twice is fine, but I’ve seen it more there than my entire combined experience online, it’s crazy and happens to often to ignore.
I’ve also seen a crazy amount of trolling there and it seems the trolls are protected through crazy censorship of anyone calling them out. It’s just not worth the aggravation.
Fwiw, lemmy.cafe defederated from lemmy.ml, and is even running a 0.19.6 beta codebase so even if there’s only a single admin they seem really on the ball.
Tesseract also has implemented a way to ban all users from lemmy.ml.
And PieFed allows personal bans on any custom instance you choose. Plus it has “categories” of communities so that you don’t have to keep searching on All, though you can do that too if you want. It seems really polished these days! Not 100% - e.g. you can’t easily search for a user in the same form as a keyword - but it looks extremely usable, so I am switching to it today.
Meanwhile, on Lemmy we were promised that 0.19.3 would allow user blocking of instances, which turned out to be not quite true, and when your instance upgrades from that to 0.19.6 when it comes out (most other instances, like mine, are already running 0.19.5), the protections that it offers will be further rolled back - e.g. on 0.19.3 I did not receive notifications from those users, whereas now on 0.19.5 I do.
And maybe some apps allow blocking of an instance, I dunno about that aspect.
Lemmy.ml was one of the first instances in the Fediverse… but that doesn’t mean that we should be forced to listen to the stuff spewing forth from it unless we choose that for ourselves, especially in the next few months as the trolls go into overdrive due to the ongoing USA election (and likely subsequent “constitutional crisis” event).
Anyway, I just wanted you to know that there are options! Not many, but they do exist!:-)
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Not exclusively, but I do think twice before posting to a community hosted there, and actively seek out alternatives if possible. The only two I haven’t found alternatives for are c/crows and c/freecad.
There’s !corvids@sopuli.xyz, but it doesn’t have much activity.
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Pasting from another comment in this thread:
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Yeah it seems like there’s barely anything here for Mexico, which I guess uses just the standard sources. There is !mexico@lemm.ee, but… you see how empty that is. There is lemmygrad.ml/c/latinamerica but… fuck no, not on on that instance!:-P
Yeah I see !trees@sh.itjust.works at lemmy.cafe, though I don’t see trees@lemmy.world so perhaps nobody there has subscribed to it yet, anyway ymmv. And I see !animepics@reddthat.com, but you may want to check your specific communities.
Damn, lemmy.cafe is somehow even running 0.19.6-beta.9. Is this too good to be true - is this a trap?:-) Or is the instance admin that much on the ball?
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Yeesh. Things are not perfect in the USA but it does sound a bit better than that - until/unless Trump wins and then the gap will close a bit:-(.
I wonder where I will end up myself! I even wonder if I should take a break from social media altogether over the next couple of months, but that seems doubtful (if only bc it would take quite some effort to replicate the various functions, e.g. research a good RSS reader). Lemmy - like everywhere else - seems likely to become a shitstorm until the election is over.:-(
Though dropping lemmy.ml and hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml should help a ton.
Well, I’m here and I don’t know what you all are talking about. And this is sincere, truly don’t understand what’s the issue, could you point me to some of these controversial situations/discussions/measures?
I have a feeling that, if you ask for any specific instance, you’ll get people complaining and blocking that instance for their own reasons. So, I’d let my users decide whether they block or not a user or a whole instance. For example, I don’t like some of the communities in lemmy.world and I complain about it because it just feels the same as being in reddit, but having access to a different point of view is very valuable to me, so I don’t block them.
I also have to add that I use lemmy with the voting system completely disabled. I hate the voting system because it shapes people’s opinions to fit in some specific communities. This is why I think blocking instances should only be used as a last resort against things like blatant spam, boycotting, CP, hate speech and the likes.
.ml is kind of Hexbear or Lemmygrad-lite. On occasion when they notice, they’ll ban you for criticising places like North Korea. I got it once for saying Dengism isn’t socialist.
I still use it, because it’s mostly normal, and “we’re secretly the bad guys” isn’t a very dangerous conspiracy theory.
lemmy.ml/post/21552785?scrollToComments=true
As mentioned in the OP: lemmy.world/post/16211417
Ah, I see. Well, I had a discussion in that thread too and it felt off at some point. I replied about a similar crime backed by the CIA and some people accused me of whataboutism, while the other guy assumed I was denying the Tiananmen Square massacre. That was not the case.
I used to participate in a subreddit where a permanent set of people, including moderators, would downvote you to oblivion as soon as they read a divergent opinion, though, the subreddit wasn’t about a specific ideology. It wasn’t about arguments, it was systemic. They would eventually ban you if you insisted on your points of view. Both things are shitty, in my opinion, and while one is more permanent than the other, the banning felt at least more straightforward to me.
What I find excessive is the instance ban.
Not all instances should defederate from lemmy.ml. However, it is an issue that everyone commenting on every post across every community on that whole entire instance must essentially conform to all of their ideals - or else be banned from all of those communities, not merely the one with the “offensive” statement. You cannot say anything truthful about Russia, China, Ukraine, Uyghurs, Taiwan, Israel, Palestine, Gaza, etc.
Imagine if we were on Reddit and could not say “fuck spez”, or we were on Linux but for some reason were still forbidden to say “I prefer not to use Windows today, so thank you but no thanks”. Those communities on Lemmy.ml are held hostage to people if not agreeing then at least going along with whatever party line BS that the admins want to uphold. Moreover, at any time they could add whatever their wanted to that list.
Perhaps there will come out a fantastic Linux distro that would revolutionize Linux accessibility - but if they say no, then nobody can access any of the communities there unless they (at the very least tacitly) agree to not so much as mention its name, or that it exists, or anything else about it. This is a hypothetical but I hope you also see the connection to irl: it doesn’t matter what those admins are banning people for, it matters that they have set themselves up as the arbiters of “truth(iness)”, and decide what can or cannot be discussed in their platform. Regardless of which community it is in.
Most of us came here to get away from such, only to find that it is here as well.
Do as you please, but I hope this helps explain just some (and this probably isn’t even fully half of it yet!?!?) of why people are judging the instance. Over time, more and more communities will move off of the instance - the main reason it hasn’t happened yet I think is that version 0.19.3 (iirc?) promised to allow user blocking, which people see now how weak it is plus with 0.19.4-5 it actively got even weaker. Only defederation is left to even consider. Which won’t happen quickly, but e.g. dubvee.org and lemmy.cafe both have already done so, and I imagine others will follow suit before too awfully long, with the amount of vehemence people feel about the situation.
This was pretty informative, thank you. As I said, these instance-bans are just too much, so I mostly agree with your point of view. Would like to read what these admins have to say about the situation.
They have said things like they ban “agitators” and “misinformation”. They do not provide a listing of what those things are. I recall one story from someone who has actual Uyghur family members living with them and they were describing the genocidal practices that they escaped from - BAM, banned.
Facts are political these days, I suppose. Most people don’t get to choose which set of facts they have to live out, day by day.
But obviously the admins are not insane - from their POV, they are doing the rational thing, of protecting their userbase from “misinformation”. Well, keep your ears open I suppose, and you’ll learn more. Hopefully you don’t get banned yourself as a result, but you may want to have a backup plan just in case.
Of course.
They banned me for calling Russia imperialist in one of their rant post, and claiming NATO was necessary because countries keep invading their neighbors.
Our based opinions aren’t allowed over there. You have to bend left until your view is broken.
I mean really you’re bending upward to authoritarian on the compass
< looks around at Western countries with militarized police forces, brutal suppression of protest, and high incarceration rates >
“This is fine. Tankies are authoritarian.”
Lemmy is already fairly left. ML is tankie from what I understand, so that would not be further left but upward, right? I hope you didn’t get the impression I’m a fan of prison slave labor and western imperialism. Many things can be and are bad at once
If something is bad, then all its adversaries are good and can do no wrong.
Same, but Gyna.
Meanwhile the Hexbear users saying that “crackers” should be murdered are welcome to continue their discussions on .ml.
No. I self-censor a bit there, and prefer other instances so I don’t have to, though.
I’ve blocked the instance entirely. I never see posts from their communities, though I am surprised to still see users from it. I thought it would block everything.
Pasting from another comment in this thread:
lol
Dubvee is even worse than .ml for the censorship stuff. The admin banned a ton of people that never even knew of its existence until we all got spammed by his automod bot duplicating the instance wide ban to each and every individual community.
What!? How is that even possible…? Are you sure this was dubvee.org and not the Santabot, or are you saying this is the guy that did that? Bc I remember the Santabot and railed hard against it, but I think the Admiral Patrick guy just preemptively defederated from lemmy.ml, which wouldn’t send out a notification (I would hope) to literally everyone on that instance? That would be… shit, no bueno.
Another place that spams people with modlog entries is lemmy.ml itself - the admins there ban someone from every single community across the entire instance, even ones that they have never heard of.
Hey, can you send me a message to read more about the dubvee.org situation? I was just starting to seriously consider joining it, and over the last hour have recommended it to several people since it is one of only two total instances that has dared to defederate entirely from lemmy.ml. If the situation is insane then I should not do that, but what you are describing sounds awfully familiar, twice over even, yet with different causes, so I wonder if one of those is the explanation. At least, I am quite interested to learn more!?:-)
Nah, IDGAF about it one way or another. You run into more jerks there than average, but that’s about it, so as long as block lists function, it’s all good
If there’s an overlapping or related community on another instance, I’ll avoid using the .ml version of that community
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While I have not blocked the instance (yet), I purposely try not to post anything on any community hosted there and rather look for alternatives. Sometimes it’s easier to comment and or post on an ml instance due to it being larger in user size such as the !privacy@lemmy.ml vs !privacy@lemmy.world - but in these cases I will crosspost too.
If the conversation is civil I’ll comment occasionally, but i don’t think I’d care if my instance defederated from them. They’re where a lot of tech related conversations are, sadly.
Tbh the bigger instances need to bite the bullet and defederate from .ml. There are alternatives to all the good comms on .ml, they just aren’t as active. Defederating would move a lot of users onto the alternatives and get some control back from the terrible .ml mods and admins.
Banning people from multiple completely unrelated comms for something that happened in one comm is bullshit and they abuse the hell out of that. I generally try not to participate in any .ml comm because of that.
But a lot of users on a lot of instances do not want to defederate, and thereby lose their communities that they want to receive content from, e.g. Firefox@lemmy.ml. First such communities need to be migrated, or at least new alternatives made, and then the barrier to walking away will be lower. Progress is being made though, even if only slowly:-).
No. People complaining about ml are exaggerating.
Pasting from another comment here:
So it’s not about politics, per se, but their decision to become the arbiters of “truth(iness)” about everything across any community on their entire instance.
Do whatever you want, but I hope it helped for me to explain that.
Depends on the community and what has been posted. If it’s something simple like AskLemmy and people aren’t being super weird or preachy about communism or whatever, I don’t find harm. I personally don’t think I’ve had any bad experiences with them outside of the time I said I didn’t trust a certain news outlet, which I cannot remember the name of.
I think it’s generally best to host communities on politically neutral instances
But there’s no such thing as “politically neutral”.
What i mean is instances that aren’t catered to a political ideology regardless of the political leaning of it’s users. Like dbzer0, lemm.ee or sh.itjust.works.
dbzer0 is anarchist though.
~Anti~ ~Commercial-AI~ ~license~ ~(CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0)~
They don’t seem to get into friction over it. I’ve never heard of @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com or mods on their communities banning people for being statists. Granted, I don’t presently subscribe to any communities there, but I haven’t seen a stream of comments complaining about interactions with them.
I mean, it probably wouldn’t be my first place to stick a non-piracy related community if I were starting one, but I also wouldn’t avoid existing communities there.
Ah, the daily whinge-fest on Lemmy.world. In my 3 decades using the internet, I have never found online communities that are so consistently in opposition to US propaganda as the .ml’s and hexbear. .World is so militantly US-liberal it puts reddit to shame. You can find such opinions all over the internet, but real left wing politics are much rarer since you basically have to self-host them, unlike the corporate friendly liberal and fascist politics.
I have to say the responses in this thread are a bummer, but I’m not surprised. I signed up on lemmy.ml because when I read the descriptions of the various instances, ML’s “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts” sounded pretty great and I saw a lot of technical communities that interested me. I didn’t expect the politics. I tried to make a new user on .world a few months back, but I seemed to get stuck in some sort of user verification limbo. Maybe I’ll try midwest.social since I moved to the midwest recently.
DBZero is a great option if you like something slightly edgy
Dbzero and programming.dev are already also high on my list, but thanks for the recommendation. I’m not in a super hurry to move or anything, I’ve never been given a hard time on ML, but I hate to think I’m slowly being edged out of the wider lemmy experience.
.ca is good as well, the admin is top tier and very transparent with the userbase. I’m quite happy with my instance.
If your home instance is lemmy.ml and it’s just people using communities on instances other than lemmy.ml, then you still get the full experience, unless you’re committed to only using locally-hosted communities or something.
If instances are defederating with lemmy.ml, then you’re missing content.
I don’t know of an easy way to get a list of which instances have defederated with a given instance. The information is public, and I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has a spider, like the lemmyverse.net one, that gathers it. But as things stand, it’s easy to, given an instance name, know which instances it has defederated from, but not which instances have defederated from it.
there’s a website out there showing exactly this,but for the life of me I can’t rememeber the URL >_<
There used to be this, but most of the instances give errors nowadays:
defed.xyz/check?name=Lemmy.ml&software=lemmy
This one seems to work: fba.ryona.agency/?reverse=Lemmy.ml
Oh yeah that’s the one
At least the latter one is just showing which instances the named instance has defederated from, not which instances have defederated from the named instance.
That’s easy to get by checking /instances on a given instance already.
The problem is that you’d need some kind of spider that crawls all of the instances to get the reverse of that.
The former one does seem to show it.
You are correct, I don’t why they called it reverse, it’s confusing
Here’s the search I wanted: fba.ryona.agency/?domain=Lemmy.ml
Ah, thanks, yeah.
Neither of those mention that lemmy.cafe has defederated from lemmy.ml. Hence I tend to agree that they are not reliable, at least in the sense of being comprehensive. Perhaps at one point in the past they were.
It’s absolutely the defederating that worries me more than the blocking. I have seen talk about nontrivial lemmy instances mulling defederation enough to keep an eye on it though.
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Depends. I’ve reccomened this before too, but I keep both world and ml “World News” communities because even though they’re defederated, having both seems to encompass a better range of sources and topics.
Yes, but not really deliberately. I catch the instance ban hammer from their fragile admins so often I never get established in any of their comms
Yes. I find their gaming-chair leftism and obnoxious preachiness annoying enough to just avoid. My blocklist is filled with .ml users, and none of those were because of any political positions. It’s because they were annoying, whinging twats.
Not even whinging, screaming.
100% I do not want anything to do with .ml
Sometimes. The only people more insufferable than .world libs are .ml “leftists”.
Certainly. I have the entire instance blocked as their moderation, admins, and plenty of the users I’ve interacted with are unpleasant. It’s no Hexbear or Grad, but it’s enough that my experience is better without their communities.
I wish that political ideology wasn’t such a thing to worry about on Lemmy. It’s sadly easy to find extremist content, even on the homepage, when you’re not logged in.
100% of the people I’ve recommended Lemmy to irl have not only been turned away by exactly that but then actually give me dirty looks for having recommended it to them.
We who block such tend to forget: a new user faces a very different experience, full of e.g. calls to murder landlords and sometimes even people with like just bank accounts.
Imagine if this was NSFW content that wasn’t labelled as such! Which is highly ironic bc I find that NSFW content is extremely well-behaved on Lemmy?! :-P
Sadly, politically extremist rhetoric refuses to label itself in like manner:-(.
Wait, I’ve certainly read this comment before…
!newtolemmy@lemmy.ca! I wish a lot more posts would go there, but sadly it is still the most recent one after all this time.
Nope.
I generally don’t worry about communities. Either the community is well run or not.
Users, though. I’ll block trolls all day long. If I notice I’m blocking a whole bunch of users from the same instance, I’ll block the instance. So far that has only happened twice. Lemmygrad and feddit.ro.
lemmy.ml tends to have an immature userbase with immature mods. It’s a weird bubble of insane extremists that are all about ideological purity tests. They aren’t really interested in discussion and will ban anyone that doesn’t conform to their extremism. And their extremists are constantly edging towards stochastic terrorism.
So needless to say, I’m banned from lemmy.ml, and I feel like that’s a badge of honour. But that does mean I won’t be engaging with any community that’s hosted on lemmy.ml.
So if you want to have discussion that’s not about how super awesome the violent overthrow of the government of your country would be, I’d recommend not hosting your community on lemmy.ml.
So what you are saying is that since you are banned from lemmy.ml, you cannot participate in communities such as Firefox@lemmy.ml, for reasons entirely unrelated to anything that you said in that community?
Which means conversely that from your perspective, that entire community - and all others likewise hosted on lemmy.ml - are “held hostage” behind you either outright agreeing with whatever stance is taken by the instance admins, about whatever subject matters they choose to be the defining criteria for exclusion from the instance, or else at least you need to STFU about your true thoughts, about e.g. China, and capitalism, and Russia, and whatever else they feel like adding at any given moment.
It would have been nice to have had a warning presented to you, wouldn’t it? Like when you first go there, have a popup or sidebar note saying “Warning: you must agree that neither China nor Russia is actively engaging in genocide in order to participate in this community discussion about… <checks notes> the popular Firefox web browser”.
I bet reading the sidebar notice presented on lemmy.ca did not quite prepare you for that!?!?!?
It would be nicer to segregate “political” communities and instances from apolitical ones. Except these days, facts themselves are political, and all we can do is suck it and swallow.
Yeah it’s really lame… seems like the ban is permanent, so I went ahead and blocked lemmy.ml. No point in seeing content from communities that some self-righteous admin decided I shouldn’t be allowed to interact with.
It is what it is. I already left reddit because of their bullshit owners. There’s still way better communities on reddit than on lemmy.ml, and as bullshit as the owners of reddit are, they’re still not as bad as the owners of lemmy.ml. So if it were really an issue to me I’d just go back to reddit. But it’s fun to discuss things in smaller communities so I’ll stick with lemmy, just not lemmy.ml.
Yeah that’s what I am starting to realize over the last couple of days - that while Reddit was bad, in some ways at least, they were less bad than Lemmy, or as you say at least lemmy.ml.
The key ingredient there is the transparency: Huffman may be a dick, but at least he is upfront about things: “you are landed gentry, under MY dominion, mu-wha-ha-ha now all will bow before me” indeed, but contrast that to claiming that lemmy.ml is for “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers.” - but did you get banned for spouting paid software? Or for violating privacy? No, or at least doubtful (I didn’t look:-). Look at the four rules - which ones did you break, that would warrant a site-wide ban? Some people get banned for none, e.g. for claiming that they have Uyghur family members staying with them who have experienced discrimination and potential genocide and… BAM, ban hammer. Bc neither Russia nor China can ever do any wrong - it is the USA that is “evil”, that is “capitalist”, and “democratic”, and “doing genocide”, but again, not precious Russia or China that does so.
I am looking heavily into alternatives that will allow banning lemmy.ml users across the Fediverse. One is lemmy.cafe, another is the Tesseract UI as implemented e.g. on dubvee.org, and another is Mbin (maybe, unless a bug no longer allows that? I saw one report of such anyway, but don’t have an account so cannot confirm), and I am leaning heavily towards joining PieFed, bc it’s so exciting what it is positioning itself to become in the future. Sublinks too but it never seems to be updating anymore, so I guess it’s stalled somehow.
Dessalines can do as he pleases. If we don’t like it, we can leave Lemmy. Those are our options.
I’ve declined the opportunity to Mod a community on lemmy.ml, which is really not like me.
I never pay attention to, or care about where a community is hosted
Nope. I participate everywhere in the lemmy fediverse I can and never really had any issues with mods yet, which is surprising as I don’t hesitate to get into political arguments generally. Ive blocked users, but never an instance. I take everything on a community by community and user by user basis.
Previously no. Now yes. Apparently got banned for inciting ‘peril’ against my own race because tankies don’t know the difference between ethnically Chinese and of Chinese nationality, and apparently you can’t criticize china in the forums. Throw in a few abusive individuals from the same instance shooting off the mouth and I pretty much said fuck it, I’m out.
I block politics subs and have never had an issue with lemmy.ml. All the issues I see are related to politics.
I block subs and users and that usually takes care of 99% of the bullshit
Do you do it individually, or use like an app or something? Bc the Lemmy instance block does very little - only blocking communities but not users from that instance.
PieFed btw allows user blocking of any custom instance you want though:-) - I just switched to it today and think I am going to be happier here. It's not quite as polished as Lemmy, but on the other hand I don't see true user-level blocking *ever* being added to Lemmy no matter how long the wait. So I decided that I was tired of wading through the garbage rooting for treasure, and just decided to block it all.
I’m on boost so maybe its just client side. Tbh i don’t know much about how lemmy functions under the hood. It’s been fun tho
Yeah it's probably client-side. Boost... that's good to know, thanks!:-)
Absolutely.
I watch closely though.
Edit: Judging by my history, I missed it a couple times and participated
I see more content complaining about .ml than I see content on .ml worth complaining about.
I generally don’t block instances, communities, or users, either. I just know I am capable of recognizing a shit take on politics anywhere and can move on without existential or social crisis.
Not when the “shit take” in question is the arbitrary, capricious, unjustified removal of thoughtful, insightful, accurate, reasonable posts and comments. You (generally) can’t recognize the “shit take” of removing good content unless you spend all day reading the mod logs.
No, but I can almost always check the modlog when a user complains about how their thoughtful, insightful, accurate, and reasonable post or comment was arbitrarily, capriciously, and unjustly removed.
And that comparison rarely disappoints.
FTFY.
The authors of thoughtful, insightful, accurate, and reasonable posts and comments tend to be the kind of people who choose their battles, and quietly walk away from communities led by power-tripping dipshits.
Very well articulated!:-)
I only block communities. I don’t want to see half of conversations, and haven’t encountered a whole server where they refuse to admin properly.
That’s bc you are an established user who knows their way around how to use Lemmy. Perhaps you even use Arch btw? (/s, but only partway, bc those of who enjoy the customizability of Linux really are a breed apart from the mainstream, in terms of our value judgements in particular)
However new users to Lemmy find it very off-putting. Also, people in the USA are touchy, watching our democracy crumble before our very eyes - there is something like a 50% chance that it won’t survive even though the next year, regardless of who wins, but if it does, then we’ll simply repeat all of this again in the next one, and so on. So for those of us who watched e.g. Innuendo Studios’ The Alt Right Playbook, to now see those identical patterns of behaviors on display (by “tankies” or whoever), is more than a little disconcerting.
And tbf, the likes of lemmy.ml is nothing at all on the scale of Lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net. So if you want to remain federated with some or all of those, then power to you and I am very glad that you can enjoy your time on the Fediverse.
However, not all of us are in the same boat and some of us would rather only see the half of the conversation that we don’t have to mentally parse and decode what it means before we throw it away. Without having to block hundreds of individual trolls I mean. Ofc we are prevented from doing so since user level defederation does not exist, and the only instance I’ve ever even so much as heard of that blocks all of the big 3 is Lemmy.cafe. So rather than wait for Sublinks/PieFed/Mbin to improve, perhaps I should move there?
Maybe this is all intellectual laziness? I dunno, I truly don’t, but also I don’t see the harm in allowing people to have their preferences met?
Well I guess the only thing I could possibly say to that woul–
Hehe, way to be a part of the chang–
I prefer to support smaller instances, but don’t have a problem with lemmy.ml specifically (whereas I do sometimes go out of my way to avoid lemmy.world)
Yep. Even if it’s larger, I’ll post in a smaller, non-ml. I don’t mind reading their stuff and them existing but with the seemingly random moderation shenanigans, I avoid it.
No. I think .ml is becoming some kind of bogey man. At the end of the day I think any instance is gonna have its own slant and bias; which isn’t a problem for me, personally.
What’s wrong with lemmy.ml?
US Democrat members get upset that the instance with 1600 users doesn’t agree with their opinions
This is literally it. I hear so much hate towards .ml that I find it hard dtobelieve they are fanatics lol
Found the alt
Found the fanatic. Lol
I found this in like 30 seconds yesterday: lemmy.ml/post/21605430.
Not that the content isn’t true, mind you, but it takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to constantly make fun of capitalism and the USA, then wonder why people in capitalist nations and especially the USA don’t want to come hang out there. (Hey, only we can say the bad stuff about ourselves, ya’know!?:-P)
There they are!!!
Literally everyone else: “It’s bad to arbitrarily arrest someone for criticising corruption and send them and their family to labour camps.”
Tankies: “That’s just, your opinion, man.”
As someone on .ml I really don’t think it’s that bad. Definitely left, and generally pro-China, but not too extreme imo. Hexbear is pretty bad. I’m a socialist and I disagree with a lot of the stuff there. But .ml is very much not a true “tankie” instance, in my opinion.
A lot of the issues people have with .ml are the practices of the admins.
Though also when hexbear.net was defederated from so many instances, a lot of those users switched to using their Lemmy.ml alts - many are quite open about this fact - and just continued posting as they had done previously, despite that style being the very reason why hexbear.net had been defederated from.
And when more instances - like lemmy.cafe - start defederating from Lemmy.ml, then those users will surely switch to alts on something like lemmy.world or Lemm.ee that are generally considered too large to be defederated from.
A lot of innocent users get caught up in the cross hairs of this fight between tankies vs. anti-tankies. People using your instance as a platform to attack (e.g. brigade and otherwise spew forth toxicity) other instances, yet possibly behaving normally else wise inside the instance itself.
Also, whether something is “extreme” or not depends on someone’s background context, and I would definitely say that the content on lemmy.ml is considered somewhat extreme for someone on America. Even/especially those who even consider themselves as “liberal”, not realizing yet what little that means on the international stage. The content is nowhere close to being as extreme as that from lemmygrad.ml or hexbear.net, but far more so than e.g. Reddit or Mastodon.
So I hope I have adequately conveyed that it’s not your fault in any way, you also expanding to mean all the other innocent users on lemmy.ml, but I wanted to convey that yes, I would defederate myself from your instance in a heartbeat if given half the chance. Possibly you won’t even mind:-), but you seemed interested, so I hope I helped by writing all this out.
Oh yeah, and it makes total sense. The brigading, insofar as it happens, really shouldn’t. But also, as someone who espouses left wing views, I always want to give critical support to left spaces - even if they’re imperfect. And .ml and even hexbear have a lot of valuable discourse - I comment on hexbear threads regularly with less radical points of view than their users often have, and I get good responses and engagement usually because I’m good faith.
I thought I was left-wing myself, then realized that I may as well be a right-wing nut compared to global standards!:-D
But it takes time for people to learn and change. Mainstream people in the USA may still have valuable contributions to make here, like funny cartoons for us all to laugh at, and thus I decry how they are pushed away due to the extremist content on the Fediverse.
After watching Innuendo Studios’ The Alt Right Playbook, I just cannot listen to hexbears anymore. Those attempts to bully people in just about every conversation with “tactics” other than relying on the logical truths of the issues themselves just really turns me away.
Be careful - your circumstances surely differ from mine, with like your family and job and such - but I note that they are far more likely to change you than the reverse. It’s just how that works.
Weirdly, I find a lot of the content on America-centric sources (not just in Lemmy) to be pretty damned extreme myself. Like the casual assumption that guns are the right way to deal with all problems. (Slightly exaggerated, yes, but sadly only slightly.)
Sigh… yup. Much of that has been traced back and shown to not have originated from inside the USA, but it does not matter how it started bc it’s endemic now. And regardless of the rhetoric the news itself is pretty violent, with all the reporting of mass shootings - you know, bc they actually happened, except most of the time the for-profit news media doesn’t bother anymore, and instead prefers to sell something sexier than all the needless deaths of children.
But you can’t wake someone up if they refuse to come into the door in the first place - that is what I meant about labeling content to make it more acceptable to a mainstream audience, so as to boost subscriber counts and thereby increase the overall health of the Fediverse. Being okay with stagnation seems unwise to me, bc it predicates a fall.
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The path to inner peace.
<img alt="" src="https://feddit.uk/pictrs/image/f690337b-5c50-4895-b63a-88c3dd56ef35.webp">
Why midwest.social? I definitely agree with the rest though.
Usual tankie nonsense masquerading as progressivism.
Call out their bullshit, get a ban.
I haven’t seen that on midwest.social yet, but I’m definitely gonna continue to observe this and then decide if it’s worth blocking them
Similar “moderation” practices as done on lemmy.ml, but unlike the latter, the users of Midwest.social themselves seem mostly well-behaved rather than toxic edgelords. Note that not all of the Lemmy.ml users are that way, and I might even believe that most are not, but conversely whenever I see the most batshit insane comments, it is always from one of the big 3: lemmygrad.ml, hexbear.net, and to a lesser but still extremely notable degree, Lemmy.ml.
lemmy.world/post/18414833
lemmy.world/post/19849559
etc.
I definitely try to avoid it. Whenever there’s an (active) alternative community available, I prefer that.