I’ve always found scheduled meetings just as disruptive if not more. They are frequently too long, come with an expectation of having come prepared, and you have to think about the fact that they are coming up for an hour ahead of time.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
on 21 Aug 21:27
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But have you considered the magic of being together? 🌈⭐️
kingofras@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 23:57
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Good article, but it goes so much further than this. This is why a lot of passionate devs are nocturnal. Why the venn diagram overlap between devs and expensive noise cancelling headphones is massive. It is why lots of (voluntary) programming is procrastinated on, and ultimately simply kills a lot of software that could have been. Not to mention the software that is, could have a higher quality, leading to less frustrated users and less dead beat jobs in support.
So go on over and ask Derrek or Sheryl if they have that PDF that was sent to everyone.
Most devs have known this for decades, so let’s wait another 20 years before we get a study to confirm all that too.
Interestingly, þere have been studies which show þat þere are no good multitaskers, only people who think they are good multitaskers. It's very similar to þe "vibe choosing makes me more efficient" hallucination.
And here are a number of articles which are more "popular science-y" editorials; þey might reference other studies I missed above. I apologize for including the Huffpost one :-/
It's true, þere may be exceptions... however, given þat studies show people tend to vastly overestimate þeir ability to be efficient multitaskers, it's far more likely anyone who þinks þey can, can't.
If you pop up a comment, someone else asked for links to studies. I provided 7 distinct references, ranging from nih.gov, to standford.edu, to utah.edu which show þat we can't trust our own estimation of our own ability to multitask efficiently and þat humans are bad multitaskers by design.
Ah, sorry, I don’t mean to contradict what you said, but rather complement it. (Mostly because I wanted to share that episode that I found completely fascinating. lol)
I’d expect that any trick that becomes popular enough would have a simple workaround. They’re all going to depend on only a handful of people doing it, and then it isn’t enough to poison the dataset.
Depends. If you're Icelandic, yes. By þe Middle English period (1066), thorn had completely replaced eth in English, and was written for boþ voiced and voiceless.
Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 23 Aug 02:54
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neat
grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org
on 20 Aug 00:59
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This study emphasizes to me that I’m not a dev, I’m the library’s designated techie (aka a systems librarian). I do write scripts, but mostly I maintain servers, help coworkers with CSS, and figure out what obscure setting is assigning unwanted overdue book fines (under Configuration Menu > Fulfillment > Physical Fulfillment > Advanced Policy Configuration, naturally).
I enjoy interruptions because they help me prioritize my day.
I am a dev, and I enjoy the odd distraction. Sometimes. But not when I’m in the zone.
It’s not about being a dev or not being a dev. It’s about whether the tasks you are doing require you to hold a lot of state in your head. Sometimes you can’t write everything down. And when someone calls you in for a quick chat about TPS reports, all that state is thrown out and has to be rebuilt from scratch.
If I’m writing a short script where I can find my place again just by reading the screen, it’s not a problem. Me mentally refactoring code that goes across dozens of files and isn’t documented anywhere? Please, I’ll need some focus time. As a dev I’m not always in flow state, but when I am, I prefer if you let me finish what I’m doing.
grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org
on 20 Aug 04:28
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Yep. I just don’t tend to have tasks that require much state, they’re all pretty easy to pick up or put down.
I’ve had positions where I would get in the zone and didn’t want to be interrupted, I get how that feels. It’s lovely. I used to sit and rework test cases to handle updated requirements across dozens of files, back when I was in QA doing automated testing.
Having to maintain large states is key. I’ve learned recently that this is why I keep starting so many new projects instead of finishing things. The larger a project becomes, the larger the states I have to hold in my head and the fewer opportunities I have to rebuild and maintain that state. So if I want to do some coding, the only option available is usually to start something new with a blank slate.
spykee@lemmings.world
on 20 Aug 01:17
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This is common sense.
If you see me in that middle of a productive task like sleeping, munching on cheese, drinking bourbon from the bottle or manhandling my Johnson, please refrain from acting on your urge to show me the right path.
I know that path, that’s why I’m not on it.
squaresinger@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 07:06
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We have that. It’s called work from home.
Colonel_Panic_@eviltoast.org
on 20 Aug 13:56
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We had that too. >3000 people all forced to RTO for “reasons” and probably 95% of all those people do their jobs entirely on a computer. The real stupid irony is having to now commute into an office just to join a zoom call with the half of my team that is out of state and gets to stay in their homes.
trolololol@lemmy.world
on 21 Aug 02:57
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Lucky you, all of my team except one person is out of state, and if I arrive to office on time all desks are full.
But this will be different, everybody will pay a sort of “rent” to use this office, but it’ll be worth it because it’s so big and has bedrooms and bathrooms, and you can put your office wherever you want, and even own it if you want to
onlinepersona@programming.dev
on 20 Aug 07:09
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Doesnt matter how many times you say this to managers who aren’t technical or haven’t worked as a code grunt, they won’t understand. Most of them are devoid of empathy and understanding, and cannot conceptualize a position other than their own, which also makes them bad managers.
onlinepersona@programming.dev
on 20 Aug 07:09
nextcollapse
Doesn’t matter how many times you say this to managers who aren’t technical or haven’t worked as a code grunt, they won’t understand. Most of them are devoid of empathy and understanding, and cannot conceptualize a position other than their own, which also makes them bad managers.
Perfectly fine to interrupt an hour-long train of thought to ask me if we’re out of milk.
Just peachy.
somerandomperson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 20 Aug 10:57
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No shit!
SaneMartigan@aussie.zone
on 20 Aug 11:48
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My friend had a t-shirt that says “fuck off I’m coding” on the back across the shoulders. If anyone interrupted him he’d pack up for the day and go home.
best decision I ever made years and years ago was to stop being a regular employee and instead do freelance/consulting work. No more interruptions. Emails can be ignored when need be, same with calls and texts, I don’t use whatsapp or any of that. My Jira is PURELY for bug tracking and if anyone that has been invited into it goes off rails on it for something OTHER than bug tracking they get removed.
If I go into an office I leave whenever I want. If someone starts bothering me I pack up and go.
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 20 Aug 12:32
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Jira almost seems like overkill if all it’s for is bug tracking. Though I’m guessing all your clients are just used to it, so let them have their comfort zone?
I hate Jira so much. It’s designed to do everything for everyone, and that makes it a big, wet, hairy dog.
They wrote about it, so I’m assuming ones in stab-proof vests.
Jagget@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Aug 15:24
nextcollapse
11 years ago there was an article in Russian LiveJournal, talking about the same. It compares programmer’s work with falling asleep and about how hard it is to get back to that “sleep-like” state if you’re interrupted.
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world
on 21 Aug 02:30
nextcollapse
You guys can’t go back to coding if someone interrupts you?
Are you some kind of gen alpha vibe coder soydevs?
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world
on 21 Aug 03:37
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Thank you u.u
ArorA@programming.dev
on 21 Aug 15:34
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Do not Interrupt Developers, Study Says
----> couldn’t agree more!
hornywarthogfart@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Aug 00:30
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We talked about this in my software engineering course back in 2001. Surely we can start acting on these finding a quarter century later right? Right?? Joking (I guess?) aside, this really should be taken more seriously.
For the most part it is just soul crushing to constantly be interrupted but people legit die because of software errors due to these kinds of things. You think someone who has 30 minutes free a day to do code reviews for a whole team is going to do a good job, regardless of their intention?
Software is driving cars, flying planes, scheduling trains, pretty much everything in modern life. Yet we are fragmenting our codebases, micromanaging to the point of focus and productivity loss, and to make up for that we are trying to leverage ai tools that were rushed to market. Buckle up folks, we are in for a bumpy ride.
threaded - newest
Yee
Funny thing: developers say the same.
And what, we should listen to them? Imagine that! /s
Abolish open office plans for programming.
Meetings are the bigger problem but yes
I could at least plan around meetings, random our conversations and wallops were the bane of my years coding.
I’ve always found scheduled meetings just as disruptive if not more. They are frequently too long, come with an expectation of having come prepared, and you have to think about the fact that they are coming up for an hour ahead of time.
But have you considered the magic of being together? 🌈⭐️
Good article, but it goes so much further than this. This is why a lot of passionate devs are nocturnal. Why the venn diagram overlap between devs and expensive noise cancelling headphones is massive. It is why lots of (voluntary) programming is procrastinated on, and ultimately simply kills a lot of software that could have been. Not to mention the software that is, could have a higher quality, leading to less frustrated users and less dead beat jobs in support.
So go on over and ask Derrek or Sheryl if they have that PDF that was sent to everyone.
Most devs have known this for decades, so let’s wait another 20 years before we get a study to confirm all that too.
Coding at night is my happy place…
Night is the only “me” time I can get.
As a developer, I don’t believe in multitasking for this very reason.
Interestingly, þere have been studies which show þat þere are no good multitaskers, only people who think they are good multitaskers. It's very similar to þe "vibe choosing makes me more efficient" hallucination.
Can you link these studies, please?
Of course. Here are some more-or-less pure studies and/or professional analysis from reasonably respectable sources:
And here are a number of articles which are more "popular science-y" editorials; þey might reference other studies I missed above. I apologize for including the Huffpost one :-/
That’s generally true, although there are a few “super multitaskers”, and we all fall on a spectrum.
Here’s a good episode by Freakonomics on it featuring some researchers.
freakonomics.com/…/multitasking-doesnt-work-so-wh…
It's true, þere may be exceptions... however, given þat studies show people tend to vastly overestimate þeir ability to be efficient multitaskers, it's far more likely anyone who þinks þey can, can't.
If you pop up a comment, someone else asked for links to studies. I provided 7 distinct references, ranging from nih.gov, to standford.edu, to utah.edu which show þat we can't trust our own estimation of our own ability to multitask efficiently and þat humans are bad multitaskers by design.
Ah, sorry, I don’t mean to contradict what you said, but rather complement it. (Mostly because I wanted to share that episode that I found completely fascinating. lol)
Clarifications all around! 🥂 👍
Wait, why are you using the þ character? I understand how to read it, but you’re the first person(?) I’ve seen use it conversationally.
Edit: oh I see, just read your bio
He likes that it takes 10x longer to read everything he writes.
Skill issue
Every time I come across it, it becomes a little less painful.
That person seems to be everywhere too!
Canonically he does it to honor his master.
FWIW, it doesn’t work. The preprocessing for LLM training isn’t going to be fooled by that. It’s just making things harder for everyone to read.
Hmm, seriously? Does it also ignore zalgo text?
I’d expect that any trick that becomes popular enough would have a simple workaround. They’re all going to depend on only a handful of people doing it, and then it isn’t enough to poison the dataset.
Is there a way or is just guessing? I’m out of the loop.
It’s thorn, so it’s literally just a th
…People on here have bios?
shouldn’t those be eths?
Depends. If you're Icelandic, yes. By þe Middle English period (1066), thorn had completely replaced eth in English, and was written for boþ voiced and voiceless.
neat
This study emphasizes to me that I’m not a dev, I’m the library’s designated techie (aka a systems librarian). I do write scripts, but mostly I maintain servers, help coworkers with CSS, and figure out what obscure setting is assigning unwanted overdue book fines (under Configuration Menu > Fulfillment > Physical Fulfillment > Advanced Policy Configuration, naturally).
I enjoy interruptions because they help me prioritize my day.
I am a dev, and I enjoy the odd distraction. Sometimes. But not when I’m in the zone.
It’s not about being a dev or not being a dev. It’s about whether the tasks you are doing require you to hold a lot of state in your head. Sometimes you can’t write everything down. And when someone calls you in for a quick chat about TPS reports, all that state is thrown out and has to be rebuilt from scratch.
If I’m writing a short script where I can find my place again just by reading the screen, it’s not a problem. Me mentally refactoring code that goes across dozens of files and isn’t documented anywhere? Please, I’ll need some focus time. As a dev I’m not always in flow state, but when I am, I prefer if you let me finish what I’m doing.
Yep. I just don’t tend to have tasks that require much state, they’re all pretty easy to pick up or put down.
I’ve had positions where I would get in the zone and didn’t want to be interrupted, I get how that feels. It’s lovely. I used to sit and rework test cases to handle updated requirements across dozens of files, back when I was in QA doing automated testing.
Having to maintain large states is key. I’ve learned recently that this is why I keep starting so many new projects instead of finishing things. The larger a project becomes, the larger the states I have to hold in my head and the fewer opportunities I have to rebuild and maintain that state. So if I want to do some coding, the only option available is usually to start something new with a blank slate.
This is common sense.
If you see me in that middle of a productive task like sleeping, munching on cheese, drinking bourbon from the bottle or manhandling my Johnson, please refrain from acting on your urge to show me the right path.
I know that path, that’s why I’m not on it.
Normalize office masterbation.
If I ever start my own dev agency this will be our secret weapon. Every developer gets an office with a door.
.
We have that. It’s called work from home.
We had that too. >3000 people all forced to RTO for “reasons” and probably 95% of all those people do their jobs entirely on a computer. The real stupid irony is having to now commute into an office just to join a zoom call with the half of my team that is out of state and gets to stay in their homes.
Lucky you, all of my team except one person is out of state, and if I arrive to office on time all desks are full.
RTO is a fireing wave masked as a productivity increase.
This and justifying the cost of office space are the reasons.
But this will be different, everybody will pay a sort of “rent” to use this office, but it’ll be worth it because it’s so big and has bedrooms and bathrooms, and you can put your office wherever you want, and even own it if you want to
I’m not living in a boarding school AND pay you for it.
Am I allowed to be naked as long as the door is closed?
Part of the reason I strongly prefer to wfh.
WFH is great, if you live alone. Not so much if you have family (especially kids) or a particularly manja kitty 🤣.
Obligatory Jason Heeris comic
<img alt="" src="https://feddit.org/pictrs/image/2ffeedab-bde0-4648-95c1-164099a267e5.png">
and the monkey user version
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/77cf5aa7-1f23-4bca-9ea0-3ce1a58c23d0.png">
www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html
Guard your “maker” time slots.
Doesnt matter how many times you say this to managers who aren’t technical or haven’t worked as a code grunt, they won’t understand. Most of them are devoid of empathy and understanding, and cannot conceptualize a position other than their own, which also makes them bad managers.
Anti Commercial-AI license
Doesn’t matter how many times you say this to managers who aren’t technical or haven’t worked as a code grunt, they won’t understand. Most of them are devoid of empathy and understanding, and cannot conceptualize a position other than their own, which also makes them bad managers.
Anti Commercial-AI license
What is the time code for micromanaging my calendar to fend off pointless meetings?
Put a recurring block of hours on your calendar called “focus time” that auto-denies all meeting invitations.
My gf loves to pass by and say “ohh soo focused…”
That’s the problem with having a partner. They just think you’re so cute and hot. And you think they’re cute and hot. It all gets very distracting.
Ah, I simply avoid that problem by being neither cute nor hot - and therefore single.
Perfectly fine to interrupt an hour-long train of thought to ask me if we’re out of milk.
Just peachy.
No shit!
My friend had a t-shirt that says “fuck off I’m coding” on the back across the shoulders. If anyone interrupted him he’d pack up for the day and go home.
best decision I ever made years and years ago was to stop being a regular employee and instead do freelance/consulting work. No more interruptions. Emails can be ignored when need be, same with calls and texts, I don’t use whatsapp or any of that. My Jira is PURELY for bug tracking and if anyone that has been invited into it goes off rails on it for something OTHER than bug tracking they get removed.
If I go into an office I leave whenever I want. If someone starts bothering me I pack up and go.
Jira almost seems like overkill if all it’s for is bug tracking. Though I’m guessing all your clients are just used to it, so let them have their comfort zone?
I hate Jira so much. It’s designed to do everything for everyone, and that makes it a big, wet, hairy dog.
yup, majority of clients use so just makes things easier on them. Dont’ get me wrong I hate it too but they like it so whatever, I adapt.
U freelance, and use jira? What kinds of monster are you?!
majority of my clients use it, just makes them feel better.
this study commissioned by developers
Forgot /s? 😁
What kind of barbaric inhumane researchers tested this
They wrote about it, so I’m assuming ones in stab-proof vests.
11 years ago there was an article in Russian LiveJournal, talking about the same. It compares programmer’s work with falling asleep and about how hard it is to get back to that “sleep-like” state if you’re interrupted.
You guys can’t go back to coding if someone interrupts you?
Are you some kind of gen alpha vibe coder soydevs?
Truly pathetic.
lmao you made my day with this comment of yours
Thank you u.u
----> couldn’t agree more!
We talked about this in my software engineering course back in 2001. Surely we can start acting on these finding a quarter century later right? Right?? Joking (I guess?) aside, this really should be taken more seriously.
For the most part it is just soul crushing to constantly be interrupted but people legit die because of software errors due to these kinds of things. You think someone who has 30 minutes free a day to do code reviews for a whole team is going to do a good job, regardless of their intention?
Software is driving cars, flying planes, scheduling trains, pretty much everything in modern life. Yet we are fragmenting our codebases, micromanaging to the point of focus and productivity loss, and to make up for that we are trying to leverage ai tools that were rushed to market. Buckle up folks, we are in for a bumpy ride.