Mario 64 Speedrunning Declared "Dead" After Insane Feat From "The Greatest Speedrunner Of All Time" | Time Extension (www.timeextension.com)
from ktec@lemmy.zip to retrogaming@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 09:12
https://lemmy.zip/post/26673151

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How do you feel about the dedication and skill demonstrated in these ultra-optimized speedruns? Do such efforts bring value to gaming or are they more of an academic exercise?

#retrogaming

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dwindling7373@feddit.it on 21 Nov 09:42 next collapse

Do such efforts bring value to gaming or are they more of an academic exercise?

Neither? Speedrunning is entirely nihilistic. It rejects the rules of society to the point of rejecting the rules of games themselves in favor of meaningless tantric repetition. It’s the eternal pointless chase for a meaning that was never there and never will.

I find it fun and dreadful at the same time, as a concept, I would never do it myself in a million years.

In short, it’s an artistic performance.

Dunstabzugshaubitze@feddit.org on 21 Nov 10:11 next collapse

i don’t get the nihilism angle. it seems to be all about selffulfilment and pushing oneself to see what one is capable of. simmiliar to triathlets, race car drivers or climbers.

MudMan@fedia.io on 21 Nov 10:29 next collapse

Speedrunning is competitive QA.

Prove me wrong.

dwindling7373@feddit.it on 21 Nov 10:37 collapse

Their action do not assure any quality, they actually advocate for keeping bugs in, the opposite of what any QA wants.

Prunebutt@slrpnk.net on 21 Nov 10:55 next collapse

Well… They’re not paid to do so, so. Yeah.

I’ve seriously learned a bit about computer architecture from OoT speedruns.

MudMan@fedia.io on 21 Nov 11:01 collapse

Meh, debatable. QA finds the bugs, what to do with them is more a development/production call.

But I can compromise: Speedrunning is competitive QA testing. How about that?

dwindling7373@feddit.it on 21 Nov 11:20 next collapse

If a bug makes the run take longer they don’t investigate it.

Actual counterexample, plenty of optimization came from random guys popping up in the community explaining something they found about the code, that was overlooked for years.

More? A huge emphasis is put on mechanically pulling the run off, which is pointless from a QA point of view, now we can maybe make an argument for TAS in that regard.

MudMan@fedia.io on 21 Nov 11:49 collapse

Nah, I'd say you're mostly making my point. Optimizing getting through the game fast is absolutely part of the skillset, and random people noticing something obvious everybody had been ignoring is bread-and-butter for testers.

I mean, for testers that care and are going hard, which is where the "competitive" part comes in.

dwindling7373@feddit.it on 21 Nov 12:49 collapse

I’m glad you’ve never done QA in a bank, but in jest, sure, there’s a surprising amount of overlapping.

pimento64@sopuli.xyz on 21 Nov 20:48 collapse

Debatable by dudes with ponytails who use the word “fallacy” 200 times a day, not by people with common sense.

dwindling7373@feddit.it on 21 Nov 10:33 collapse

Making your own valorial framework is a close cousin to accepting there is no inherent one.

This is true for many things (all things?), but I think we can agree that as pointless or challenging being fast driving a car, it still welcomes the intended use of the car, is surrounded by a broadly shared and accepted economical advantage.

Esports would be the equivalent, pushing to be the best at a game, the way it’s meant to be played.

Speedrun is getting into a racing car and mastering with an iron will getting in and out as fast as possible.

Skua@kbin.earth on 21 Nov 12:18 collapse

Making your own valorial framework is a close cousin to accepting there is no inherent one.

That's absurdism rather nihilism, isn't it? "One must imagine Sisyphus happy"

dwindling7373@feddit.it on 21 Nov 12:39 collapse

That’s how Nietzsche answers those that blame him for bringing forward relativism, and I don’t think speedrunning is absurd, just egregiously arbitrary.

Stalinwolf@lemmy.ca on 21 Nov 13:07 next collapse

I can’t fully articulate the reasons why, but I dislike the entire speed-running culture. I’ve always been someone who sinks as deeply as I possibly can into the environments that games provide, placing a lot of value on carefully crafted details, flora, object clutter and ambience.

Speed-running is essentially the exact opposite of this, and it takes what was intended to be an enjoyable escape and gamifies it beyond recognition. It becomes a sweaty, disgusting mess of button mashing, sprinting, wall-glitching, exploitation, and a bastardization of mechanics. I definitely get why some people find this interesting, but I just can’t find the off-switch for how much I hate watching it. It’s in a similar ballpark as extreme min-maxing in modern MMOs, where people get so addicted to arbitrarily raising numbers by the smallest margin that the game itself just evaporates into the background.

To me, it’s like someone took art, sucked the creative soul out of it, and turned it into a math game.

dwindling7373@feddit.it on 21 Nov 13:31 next collapse

To me, it’s like someone took art, sucked the creative soul out of it, and turned it into a math game.

I agree but I don’t come to the same conclusion. It’s akin to saying cubism is weird and paintings should be naturalistic.

Beside the artistic value, though, it leans more toward obsessively abusing rather than loving a videogame, as far as his intended purpose was.

To an extent is an act of rebellion and vandalism.

DmMacniel@feddit.org on 21 Nov 13:31 next collapse

It’s more like they made an optimization puzzle out of a game they really likes.

Also before you speedrun you gotta understand the game and it’s capabilities first and well.

Famko@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 13:37 next collapse

Speedrunners are the people who are the most dedicated to a game, having analysed it for hundreds of hours, they deeply understand every corner of it and appreciate everything that the game has to offer.

And then they break it over their knee.

Zoomboingding@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 17:11 next collapse

Speedrunners tend to be superfans, and I’m sure their first playthrough of a game is done in the intended manner. Also consider that beloved games tend to have more active speedrun scenes - People speedrun Majora’s Mask precisely because of its wonderful atmosphere.

But yeah actually watching speedruns isn’t for everyone

starman2112@sh.itjust.works on 21 Nov 23:28 collapse

I get where you’re coming from, but understand that your way of enjoying things isn’t necessarily the right way to enjoy them. Some would say that ignorance of the technical aspects of a game’s design betrays a shallow appreciation of the work based entirely on its aesthetic value.

This is a bit like telling athletes that they should appreciate the human body for what it is, rather than try and lift the heaviest weight or run the fastest. Part of a holistic appreciation for the human body/a work of art/a video game is an understanding of what makes it tick, what its limitations are, and how far you can push the limits.

I also don’t much like watching speedruns, but I can understand that while some speedrunners are only in it for the numbers, the vast majority of them appreciate the games on a deeper level than I ever could.

eestileib@sh.itjust.works on 21 Nov 16:14 next collapse

Some people just like getting better at stuff.

The lucky ones want to get better at stuff that puts food on the table.

Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 21 Nov 18:02 next collapse

Speedrunners are basically Neo in the Matrix. They have such a vast understanding of the world they are in and its rules that they’re able to break them.

SARGE@startrek.website on 21 Nov 12:47 next collapse

It’s the eternal pointless chase for a meaning that was never there and never will.

So… Life.

tomkatt@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 20:28 collapse

I’m actually a fan of 100% and no-glitch speedruns. Exploiting the game certainly takes skill, but I enjoy watching people excel within the game’s expected framework.

Dasnap@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 10:22 next collapse

Now we can all focus on the A-press challenge.

towerful@programming.dev on 21 Nov 13:56 collapse

And blindfolded runs

lath@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 10:35 next collapse

From an imaginary point of view, one could view it as a rendition of Ender’s game and transform these runs into models of potential attack vectors.

For example, a very specific silly scenario would be rearranging microbial growth in the shape of a Super Mario level and then using miniature robots to deliver a compound into a pinpoint location to be released after regular activities resume.

Think of it as having prearranged templates that reduce the risk of errors to a minimum.

Th4tGuyII@fedia.io on 21 Nov 12:20 next collapse

Congratulations to Suigi getting the quadfecta!
After watching Karl's videos on Suigi's 120 and 70 star records, I knew it only had to be a matter of time until he'd conquer them all.

AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works on 21 Nov 14:30 next collapse

Pentafecta?

RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 18:55 next collapse

Quintfecta.

Th4tGuyII@fedia.io on 22 Nov 09:57 collapse

Damn, I meant quint but put quad by accident. Should've known better.

Though Pentafecta is actually way better

prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 21 Nov 20:36 collapse

Yeah Suigi is the goat

ICastFist@programming.dev on 21 Nov 12:30 next collapse

Do such efforts bring value to gaming or are they more of an academic exercise?

I’ll go with neither as well. They are an interesting sidestepping of how most games “should be played” that often discovers interesting new glitches, bugs and exploits. Using a TAS to execute arbitrary code is interesting, having that transformed into a possibility for human players (SNES Code Injection – Flappy Bird in SMW, by SethBling) is amazing beyond belief.

smeg@feddit.uk on 21 Nov 12:31 next collapse

I’ve seen enough Summoning Salt videos to know that it’s never dead

overload@sopuli.xyz on 21 Nov 13:43 next collapse

This will at least be an epic part of a future video.

cucumber_sandwich@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 18:16 next collapse

The game was considered dead. <Pause>, but then, <queue synth wave music>

cazssiew@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 21:48 collapse
Maalus@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 21:59 collapse

Always hefest and his fucking run, smh

witty_username@feddit.nl on 21 Nov 14:13 next collapse

I think hbomberguy did such a good job explaining the phenomenon of speedrunning that it largely negates the need of any further discussion of its utility. And I think that there is an irony in this

cybervseas@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 15:25 next collapse

Was this written by a machine? The bullet point about 0 stars only being about time is nonsense. All of the categories are about time.

chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 15:46 collapse

Maybe. A lot of ktec’s posts are like this. Seems very bot-like. I don’t mind too much since the information is interesting to me.

atro_city@fedia.io on 21 Nov 16:08 next collapse

I think this is the speed run video in question.

ApollosArrow@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 16:51 collapse

Thank you. I didn’t see it in the article, besides screenshots. You’d think all the runs would be front and center even.

horse_tranquilizers@sh.itjust.works on 21 Nov 16:24 next collapse

Ur mom

juliebean@lemm.ee on 21 Nov 19:38 next collapse

Do such efforts bring value to gaming or are they more of an academic exercise?

what kinda nauseating execu-speak is this? speed-running is gaming.

‘bring value’. smdh

TheFANUM@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 00:44 next collapse

Yea, but what’s the ROI? How do we profit? Who’s getting hurt in the process?

Because if it’s not hurting people, what’s the point

/s

lunarul@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 02:02 collapse

TAS runs are an academic exercise. A person doing pixel perfect moves in fractions of a second several times in a row is peak gaming.

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 21 Nov 22:01 next collapse

Speedrunning isn’t dead. You just gotta change the goal. Do the 1-Up demon challenge instead.

lunarul@lemmy.world on 22 Nov 02:08 collapse

Speedrunning is not just about beating the world record. A lot of people speedrun games for their own enjoyment and only competing against their own PBs. I’ve spent time getting sub 10m in Getting Over It and never considered going for the WR. And there’s a whole community doing the same, setting their own goals.