That hurts a little
from The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world to retrogaming@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 13:15
https://lemmy.world/post/20458457

#retrogaming

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Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 13:29 next collapse

Yeah but remember the way Xbox started up? So futuristic. Boomba Boom boom SQUAAAOOW blblblbblbltingley bingley beep beep dink. That could never be retro.

ChicoSuave@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 16:41 collapse

Reminds me of making mouth noises.

capt_wolf@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 13:41 next collapse

Original Halo was released in 2001, 23 years ago.

Super Mario Bros was released in 1985, 39 years ago.

There is less time between the release of the first SMB and Halo than Halo and the present day, 16 years…

someguy3@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 13:47 next collapse

Pic has Yoshi. I believe that was Super Mario World, 1990.

samus12345@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 13:52 next collapse

It was, but they’re just making a point unrelated to the specific Mario game depicted.

lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network on 03 Oct 2024 14:48 collapse

Damn, even worse for Halo

samus12345@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 13:51 next collapse

It’s interesting how much technology has slowed down. Back in the 80s and 90s a 5 year old game looked horribly outdated. Now we’re getting close to some 20 year old games still looking pretty decent.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 14:39 next collapse

It’s interesting how much technology has slowed down.

We haven’t slowed down. We simply aren’t noticing the degrees of progress, because they’re increasingly below our scale of discernment. Going from 8-bit to 64-bit is more visually arresting than 1024-bit to 4096-bit. Moving the rendered horizon back another inch is less noticeable each time you do it, while requiring r^2 more processing power to process all those extra assets.

No we’re getting close to some 20 year old games still looking pretty decent.

The classic games look good because the art is polished and the direction is skilled. Go back and watch the original Star Wars movie and its going to be more visually acute than the latest Zack Snyder film. Not because movie graphics haven’t improved in 40 years, but because Lucas was very good at his job while Synder isn’t.

But then compare Avatar: The Way of Water to Tron. Huge improvements, in large part because Tron was trying to get outside the bounds of what was technically possible long before it was practical, while Avatar is taking computer generated graphics to their limit at a much later stage in their development.

lordnikon@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 14:57 collapse

yeah it’s like with F1 racing you hit 99% of your min lap time but then it take a million dollars of R&D for each second reduction in min lap time after that.

zante@lemmy.wtf on 03 Oct 2024 15:26 collapse

Popularised by The Law of Diminishing Returns.

bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de on 03 Oct 2024 14:41 next collapse

Last time I was amazed with graphical progress was with Unreal in 1998. And probably just because I hadn’t played Quake 2.

From then on until now it’s just been a steady and normal increase in expected quality.

Doom 3 might have come close (and damn, that leaked Alpha was impressive) but by the time it was released it looked just slightly better than everything else.

zante@lemmy.wtf on 03 Oct 2024 15:30 next collapse

Hmm I think GTA 3 , as an engine / open world environment was like a whoa moment from me. Then Modern warfare of course . Recently God Of War and Assasin Creed Odysseys rendition of Ancient Greece is quite spectacular.

not_a_dog@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 20:14 next collapse
Klear@sh.itjust.works on 04 Oct 2024 13:58 collapse

Remember that one DNF trailer? It looked mindblowingly good back then.

TheTechnician27@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 15:06 next collapse

Technology has slowed down, but there’s also diminishing returns for what you can do with a game’s graphics etc.

  • The original Halo ran at 480p on the Xbox. 4K UHD has 27 times the number of pixels as that. The resolution increase from the NES to Halo was about 5.35 times.
  • Games nowadays on PCs are often capable of running smoothly into the hundreds of frames per second, but of course for example the difference between 21 and 30 FPS is more noticeable than the one between 231 and 240 FPS. (Looking at you, OoT)
  • Render distances are much larger with less obvious compromise on LoD.
  • Stuff like ray-tracing is of some graphical benefit but is hugely computationally taxing, and there’s nothing you can do about that. It’s just more diminishing returns.
  • Physics engines are much more complex.
  • At some point, a limiting factor just becomes art direction and budget. You can have all the fancy techniques you want, but you still need to make detailed textures, animations, etc.
  • The amount of polygons starts to hit a ceiling too where the model is basically continuous to the human eye, so adding more polys might only help very subtly.
  • Color depth is basically a solved problem now too compared to going from the NES to the Xbox.

You can think of sampling audio. If I have a bit depth of 1, and I upgrade that to 16, it’s going to sound a hell of a lot more like an improvement than if I were to upgrade from 48 to 64.

hedgehog@ttrpg.network on 03 Oct 2024 15:48 next collapse

I assume this was supposed to say “more noticeable,” not “less”:

but of course for example the difference between 21 and 30 FPS is less noticeable than the one between 231 and 240 FPS

TheTechnician27@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 16:26 collapse

Ah, yep. lmao

TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 16:45 next collapse

I think something worth noting about older games too is that they didn’t try and deal with many of their limitations head on. In fact many actually took advantage of their limitations to give the feeling of doing more than they actually were. For example, pixel perfect verus crt. Many 8 bit and 16 bit games were designed specifically for televisions and monitors that would create the effect of having more complexity than they were actually capable of. Other things like clever layout designs in games to limit draw distance, or bringing that in as a functional aspect of the game.

The technical limitations seem largely resolved by current technology, where previously things were made to look and feel better than the hardware allowed through clever planning and engineering.

TheTechnician27@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 17:10 collapse

Oh, absolutely this. I think the YouTube channel GameHut is a great example of the lengths devs went to to get things working. In Ratchet & Clank 3, Insomniac borrowed memory from the PS2’s second controller port to use for other things during single-player (PS2 devs did so much crazy shit that within the PCSX2 project, we often joke about how they “huffed glue”). The channel Retro Game Mechanics explained and the book “Racing the Beam” have great explanations for the lengths Atari devs had to go to just to do anything interesting with the system. Even into the seventh generation of consoles, the Hedgehog Engine had precomputed light sources as textures to trick your brain.

weirdbeardgame@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 13:33 collapse

Heeeyyy buddy, wass up didn’t expect to find you around here! And yeah. Rachet also has some ass backward stuff with The way it tries to force 60 FPS all the time which Ironically made it run worse in PCSX2 for the longest time till more accurate timings for the EE were found.

TheTechnician27@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 13:40 collapse

Oh shit, hey Beard. I didn’t expect to see you here either. For that matter I didn’t think anyone else surrounding the project used Lemmy. Cool to know I’m not alone.

weirdbeardgame@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 14:03 collapse

Hell yeah! I think Kam might be around here somewhere but not a hundred percent on that. Ofc, Rachet is a good example. But we all know the real insanity is Marvel Nemesis xD

falcunculus@jlai.lu on 04 Oct 2024 14:20 collapse

  • At some point, a limiting factor just becomes art direction and budget. You can have all the fancy techniques you want, but you still need to make detailed textures, animations, etc.

Very possibly generative AI will alleviate this, although it has yet to produce convincing 3d models or animations.

Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee on 03 Oct 2024 16:46 next collapse

Same with movies. LOTR is almost 25 years old and still looks great.

ouRKaoS@lemmy.today on 03 Oct 2024 17:45 collapse

Jurassic Park released in 1993. 31 years ago…

Redfox8@mander.xyz on 03 Oct 2024 19:28 collapse

Alien in 1979…

not_a_dog@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 20:11 next collapse

True. Was playing Arkham Knight the other day and thought this nine year old game looked better than at least half of current gen games.

Klear@sh.itjust.works on 04 Oct 2024 13:59 collapse

Getting ready for Shadows, eh? At least that’s the reason I replayed AK the other day. And Origins. And Asylum. And am in the middle of City.

can@sh.itjust.works on 04 Oct 2024 12:54 collapse

Damn, should have scrolled farther before looking this up myself.

MeatPilot@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 13:55 next collapse

Oh my god stop! He’s already dead!

magic_lobster_party@fedia.io on 03 Oct 2024 14:41 next collapse

Pac Man was younger when Halo was released than Master Chief is today.

Jordan117@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 16:10 next collapse

Halo 3 released closer to the original Sonic the Hedgehog than today.

camr_on@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 20:45 collapse

This is distressing

daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 03 Oct 2024 20:37 next collapse

You made my knees hurt.

ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca on 04 Oct 2024 00:41 next collapse

You could use Space Invaders on the Atari

And next year you’ll be able to use Space Invaders the arcade game

pachrist@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 13:16 collapse

Crazy to know that Cleopatra was born closer to the creation of Halo: Combat Evolved than to the Great Pyramid of Giza.

xylogx@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 13:48 next collapse

It stings at first, but once you realize you can now play all of the classics on emulators it helps take the pain away.

Montagge@lemmy.zip on 03 Oct 2024 14:42 collapse

Nintendo would like to know your location

SidewaysHighways@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 00:23 collapse

Nintendo knows

aeronmelon@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 13:50 next collapse

At least they used the correct armor.

It irks me when they use the armor from Halo 2 or the remastered game to represent Combat Evolved.

9point6@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 13:57 next collapse

There’s only 4 years between FF7 and Halo

the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works on 03 Oct 2024 15:59 next collapse

…Hmm this guy must be wrong

Checks

FF7 1997/ Halo: CE 2001

Fuck me!

robdor@lemmynsfw.com on 03 Oct 2024 18:46 collapse
Blaze@sopuli.xyz on 03 Oct 2024 23:34 collapse

Wow

GustavoM@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 15:21 next collapse

Time to change this community name to u/reallyoldgames.

bulwark@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 17:12 next collapse

I heard he’s a pretty cool guy and doesn’t afraid of anything.

Damage@feddit.it on 03 Oct 2024 17:40 collapse

He afraids of 343’s writing

Zoidsberg@lemmy.ca on 03 Oct 2024 23:27 collapse

What if, instead of leading humanity in a fight for survival against a diverse mix of alien races with complex social structures, he fought some apes on an otherwise uninhabited planet?

Give this man a lead writing credit.

Damage@feddit.it on 04 Oct 2024 17:44 collapse

“let’s make the big bad kick his ass off screen and then disappear!”

Grass@sh.itjust.works on 03 Oct 2024 18:02 next collapse

its kinda funny because it looks dated even with the graphics overhaul in mcc but the gameplay is still solid, and there are older games that still look as good as release day but the mechanics are kinda rough. And some that always were and always will be perfect.

I feel like at this point retro is more of a style though. Graphics can only get so realistic and anything made to peak modern visual standards will be harder to differentiate from previous decades as time goes on, if we don’t all die from pollution and war and other shit. Oh fuck, maybe retro will become anything that features a non-destroyed climate/environment in a world where children will be born having never seen what earth once was.

DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social on 03 Oct 2024 18:09 next collapse

Young Link’s third appearance was as a dead skeleton afraid that he left no legacy 18 years ago.

Sam_Bass@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 18:58 next collapse

i still fire up the old star wars raster(or is it vector, i forget) arcade game sometimes. mame is great for stuff like that

Hawke@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 23:53 collapse

It’s vector.

Raster is a grid of dots, vector is lines from point to point.

kamenlady@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 19:32 next collapse

I stumbled across this today and still don’t believe it

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/df762b55-51e6-47d2-931b-f6e433803652.png">

The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 19:36 collapse

That’s impossible…

BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 20:20 collapse

Look in your heart, you know it to be true

Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 19:35 next collapse

You think you’re old? I was playing Bungie games when they were only on Mac.

johannesvanderwhales@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 19:51 next collapse

You think you’re old? I was playing games on Apples, not Macs…

nexguy@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 00:55 collapse

You think your old. I was playing pong with paddles on channel 3.

weirdo_from_space@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2024 23:11 collapse

You think you are old? I was playing Duodecim Scribta at Ancient Rome!

Donut@leminal.space on 03 Oct 2024 19:51 next collapse

Back then, Halo felt like running 26.219 miles

Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 19:54 collapse

Leela was my first in-game crush

CentauriBeau@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 00:25 next collapse

I played Atari 2600 back when it was the console to have. I didn’t see a pixel that wasn’t square until I was a man. You think you know old gaming. I was born into it, molded by it, and it made me what I am today; an old man with back pain.

JustADrone@lemmy.ca on 04 Oct 2024 21:27 collapse

I still miss the atomic hand grenade…

Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 21:42 collapse

Frog blast the vent core!

masquenox@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2024 21:00 next collapse

Yeah, it does. They gave Half-Life’s spot to that crappy game.

hydroxycotton@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 01:29 next collapse

I thought the halo ce was generally very well received. Is the hate for it a lemmy generation thing?

Telodzrum@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 01:46 next collapse

It is and it’s certainly a better game than HL.

weirdo_from_space@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2024 23:07 collapse

It’s not hard to be honest, time wasn’t kind to HL 1.

Telodzrum@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2024 23:21 collapse

It was revolutionary and changed a lot in game design on a significant number of fronts. It just aged poorly as others iterated and replaced its aspects. Halo has aged well mainly because (like most Bungie titles) it still feels like a modern title due to how tight, responsive, smooth, and intuitive the player’s interaction with the world is — mainly the controls and weapons.

bigboig@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 04 Oct 2024 18:52 next collapse

Alotta half-life and older shooter fans blame the modern console shooter style on halo.

masquenox@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 23:11 next collapse

I thought the halo ce was generally very well received.

So was a whole bunch of other FPS tripe that glorified USian militarism.

weirdo_from_space@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2024 23:06 collapse

I’ve been playing for the first time a while back. It’s neat, but I think the primary reason people love it so much is that it’s the first popular console FPS that didn’t control horribly and split screen co-op. On it’s own it’s just a decent shooter that no longer feels special.

Deceptichum@quokk.au on 04 Oct 2024 01:49 collapse

PacMan is pretty boring but its not that bad.

can@sh.itjust.works on 04 Oct 2024 12:54 next collapse

Combat Evolved came out 23 years ago. That’s older than Super Mario Bros. was when the Wii launched.

chiliedogg@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 13:19 next collapse

I am very upset with you right now.

irish_link@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 19:02 next collapse

I want to downvote you but I cant.

can@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2024 00:31 collapse

Go ahead

Kolanaki@yiffit.net on 05 Oct 2024 23:23 collapse

Shiiit… By 2 years. 3 if you go by the Japanese release.

AgentGrimstone@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 13:49 next collapse

What’s the game to the left of Halo? It’s the only one I can’t make out.

Baggie@lemmy.zip on 04 Oct 2024 13:58 next collapse

Looks like a Russian palace, maybe Tetris?

pyre@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 19:40 collapse

talk about feeling old… does Tetris no longer include this image?

can@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2024 00:33 collapse

Not really as much anymore

The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 14:02 collapse

I want to say that’s Tetris.

Here’s a clearer image:

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/50015595-c70c-432c-a2b7-6496b370887c.jpeg">

can@sh.itjust.works on 04 Oct 2024 16:23 next collapse

It is without a doubt Tetris

gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 04 Oct 2024 16:37 collapse

No, it’s clearly St Basil’s Cathedral, not a video game!

Its representing Captain Bible, obviously

wowwoweowza@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 13:52 next collapse

Space Invaders, Asteroid, Pong, Adventure… these are retro

weirdo_from_space@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2024 22:53 collapse

Nah, Space War is retro.

iAvicenna@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 2024 14:20 collapse

halo is retro for a 25 year old