Transcription and translation of Grothendieck’s 1972 CERN talk "Will we continue scientific research?" (thehighergeometer.wordpress.com)
from vuptm@mander.xyz to science@mander.xyz on 13 Jun 2024 13:56
https://mander.xyz/post/14096429

cross-posted from: mander.xyz/post/14096418

A link from @highergeometer@mathstodon.xyz to a 1972 talk by Grothendieck (including a recording; I don’t think I’d ever actually heard his voice before!). It’s interesting how complaints that seem very modern have existed for so long.

I’ve been taking every opportunity to meet scientists, whether in public discussions like this one or in private, and raise these questions. In particular: “Why do we do scientific research?” […] The extraordinary thing is to see how incapable my colleagues are of answering this question. In fact, for most of them, the question is simply so strange, so extraordinary, that they refuse even to contemplate it. In any case, they are extremely reluctant to give any kind of answer.

I’ve come to realize that in fact this satisfaction that scientists are supposed to derive from exercising their cherished profession, is a pleasure… which is not a pleasure for everyone! […] Once you’ve got your job, it’s an imperative to move up the ladder. Once you’ve moved up the ladder, even assuming you’ve made it to the top, it’s an imperative to be considered in the running. You’re expected to produce. Scientific production—like any other kind of production in the ambient civilization—is considered an imperative in itself. The remarkable thing about all this is that in the end, the content of research becomes a second thought. It’s all about producing a certain number of “papers”. In extreme cases, a scientist’s productivity is measured by the number of pages they publish. Under these conditions, for a large number of scientists—certainly for the overwhelming majority, with the real exception of a few who are fortunate enough to have an exceptional gift or to be in a social position and disposition that enables them to free themselves from these feelings of constraint—for most, scientific research is a real constraint that kills the pleasure one can have in carrying it out.

#science

threaded - newest

5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Jun 2024 15:42 collapse

What the fuck are they talking about? Yes, esoteric math exists, but this text just seems like misanthropy with extra steps. Maybe I don’t get it.

vuptm@mander.xyz on 13 Jun 2024 15:51 collapse

What do you find misanthropic about it? If anything, I feel like he’s embracing the human side of research.

5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 14 Jun 2024 00:05 collapse

Just because the world supposedly ends in two generations (spoiler: it didn’t), doesn’t mean specialised knowledge production is utterly useless.

Also, there’s a whole science about science’s societal position and function.

vuptm@mander.xyz on 14 Jun 2024 01:26 collapse

Fair point, and of course Grothendieck was notoriously extreme on this point (retiring completely from society and asking for his works to be destroyed). For us modern readers, it’s probably more interesting to view this as a glimpse into his mind and the mind of the mathematical community at the time than any kind of guidance.