It hasn’t been documented yet, sure, I’ll give you that. You and I both have no idea if it has happened already and the patients didn’t get tested or they didn’t go to the hospital or doctor with the bird flu. They might not have even realized they had the flu.
Of course there’s a difference. That’s like saying there’s no difference between a rare steak and a well done steak. Yes, they’re both steak, and to some extent they taste the same, but they are very different.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world
on 27 Nov 21:06
nextcollapse
Uh oh you violated the cardinal rule of Lemmy and posted an opinion at odds with the intent of the OP.
I agree raw milk is delicious. Too bad most people cannot experience that safely.
Moo moo! Moo!
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
on 27 Nov 19:40
nextcollapse
Raw milk now getting “Bird Flued on Date”
finitebanjo@lemmy.world
on 27 Nov 19:53
nextcollapse
Fuck, dude, it’s already in California? I was hoping it was at least somewhat contained to Canada but clearly I haven’t been keeping up with the news on the issue.
YtA4QCam2A9j7EfTgHrH@infosec.pub
on 27 Nov 19:59
nextcollapse
It’s in our factory farming animals. It’s been that way for a while. The administration if just fucking around with it and not culling like they should.
And farmers are concealing their infected herds because they don’t want their animals culled. So just assume it is everywhere. We are probably on pandemic II feat. RFK Jr and Trump very soon and it is going to be a lot of fun.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world
on 27 Nov 20:08
nextcollapse
Hmmm. Maybe theres still a little time, but rather unlikely.
YtA4QCam2A9j7EfTgHrH@infosec.pub
on 27 Nov 20:13
collapse
Yeah, who knows. There is a possibility that they get a vaccine for farm animals soon and that ends the pandemic. But I’m not counting on it. I’ve stocked up on masks and the like, but I’ve never stopped with social distancing, masking and the like so a new flu pandemic isn’t going to change my life much.
Cardiovascular disease is never going to be contagious, except through socially transmitted values that say it is okay to commit atrocity against cattle.
SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de
on 28 Nov 00:50
nextcollapse
I feel like it’s only a matter of time until I see a headline that says, ‘White House votes A-trocities A-OK!’
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Nov 14:29
collapse
Some people might have said the same about cancer too
Edit: Forget cancer.
Viruses are one of the most common causes of heart inflammation. When an infection leads to myocarditis, health experts refer to it as infective myocarditis. Myocarditis can occur if the virus infects heart tissue. This can trigger an immune system reaction that may result in inflammation of heart muscle tissue
Huh. Turns out heart failure can be contagious.
GhiLA@sh.itjust.works
on 27 Nov 23:01
nextcollapse
I’m cool with idiots who don’t know any better getting what’s coming to them… but I’m not really cool with them sneezing on the same door handles I turn.
veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 04:23
collapse
Except the same people end up serving it to their kids
The more deadly pseudoscience that spreads the fewer conservatives there are in America, so I can’t say I mind stuff like this too much.
Catpurple@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Nov 00:10
collapse
I mind it. In isolation it would be fine, but with their ignorance, these types punish and harm their families, mainly their children, who would otherwise just grow up to cut contact with them anyway, long as they didn’t end up sharing their views. Plus when it’s disease, they just have to walk near a person who isn’t another conservative to spread it. As we learned from covid, the best person to be wearing the mask is the sick one, and they don’t play along.
And they will blame it on someone else causing them to become sick like 5G or wifi
BoogerBearadactyl@lemmy.world
on 27 Nov 23:10
nextcollapse
So, I don’t really understand the science, but my son is only able to drink raw milk. When he drinks normal milk, he has terrible stomach aches and mad diarrhea. When he drinks raw milk, it’s all rainbows and butterflies. For reference, he’s 3 and has been drinking the raw milk for around a year and a half. Also, the rest of the family had no issues drinking pasteurized milk. Maybe somebody smarter than me could explain why this is?
Have the rest of the family conduct a double-blind test. In other words, neither you nor the child now which is which.
AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net
on 27 Nov 23:56
nextcollapse
This might be helpful, or it might be unrelated.
Recently, I made mozzarella from scratch. In order to do that, I needed some milk that wasn’t homogenised. Homogenisation is the process of breaking up the fat globules within milk into smaller droplets so they’re more evenly dispersed throughout the liquid, meaning there won’t be a fatty layer that separates out when you leave the milk to stand.
Most milk that you buy at the supermarket would be both homogenised and pasteurised. I learned that pasteurised milk could work for cheese, depending on the specific temperature the milk was heated to during pasteurisation (because the required minimum temperature for pasteurization is below the temperature that causes issues for mozzarella, but some brands pasteurise at a higher temperature. Unfortunately most brands don’t say what temperature they pasteurise at, but I got lucky with the first one I tried). That part’s not especially relevant to you and is mostly cheese related
The thing I wanted to suggest, out of scientific curiosity more than helpfulness, is that I wonder how your son would do with pasteurised, non-homogenised milk — perhaps it’s the homogenisation that’s causing the problem, rather than the pasteurisation. If you do try this, I’d be interested to hear back how things go; I haven’t heard of anyone having issues like this before
BoogerBearadactyl@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 02:37
collapse
Oh, interesting. I’ll have to look into where to find that.
droporain@lemmynsfw.com
on 28 Nov 00:09
nextcollapse
Maybe don’t fucking feed him milk at all? Whoa mind blown…
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Nov 18:37
collapse
I felt so much better once I stopped drinking cow milk. If you look into the science, you really don’t need it in your diet at all. Dairy lobbyists managed to get the government to promote it as necessary for health, though.
milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
on 28 Nov 03:14
nextcollapse
FWIW, there’s a lot we don’t know - but are learning - about bacteria and the gut. For example, if I’m not mistaken, a baby gets a lot of important gut bacteria from it’s mum through breastfeeding.
So when I hear all this argument about raw vs pasteurised milk, I expect there really is something of health benefit to raw milk, just there’s a big downside of harmful pathogens that can be cured with pasteurization. That doesn’t mean all raw milk is unsafe. Like with raw eggs in the UK, or not iodizing your vegetables, it can be safer with care over production.
Anyway, that is to say, I figure there could be some interaction with the bacteria in the raw milk helping your son to digest it.
But having seen the other comment suggesting homogenisation, that sounds more likely to me. (Just a guess though.)
BoogerBearadactyl@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 03:56
collapse
There seems to be some disagreements among the healthcare community as well. With my son, we tried normal milk, goat’s milk, and raw. The raw was the only one that didn’t cause the gut issues. We mentioned this to his pediatrician, and he told us there was no difference. When we mentioned the variance to a different physician, he said there absolutely would be reason for him to react with the pasteurized but not the raw. I think he mentioned something about the breakdown of protiens when milk is pasteurized, but I can’t remember for sure.
milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
on 28 Nov 09:59
collapse
That’s very interesting. Thank you for sharing.
I hope things work out well for your son.
Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc
on 28 Nov 03:45
nextcollapse
Should totally stop feeding him raw milk, get those lactose-free milk instead.
BoogerBearadactyl@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 03:59
nextcollapse
I actually think we may have tried lactaid as well, with a similar reaction. My wife would remember for sure.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Nov 18:33
collapse
Just use oat milk. It’s creamy and delicious, and it lasts longer.
You should give oat milk a try (or soy/almond, but oat tastes the best imo)
Kallioapina@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Nov 11:26
collapse
For some reason all the soy and oat milks I’ve tried taste terribly sour and bitter to me. At times I think “am I going crazy”, when people around me describe them tasting sweet.
Though also some vegetables, like coriander and parsley taste soapy and bitter to me, so maybe its some quirky genetics thing.
I wish they would irradiate it instead of boiling. Irradiation is completely safe and preserves the nutritional benefits. But the raw milk people are generally opposed to that, and irradiation has a PR problem. Sadness.
WarlordSdocy@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 04:14
nextcollapse
I also imagine on the company side it’s probably more expensive to do that rather than just making it hot enough.
It taste differently and it usually hasnt gone through the separation of cream from the milk so it has high fat content and sometimes fat drops on the surface
UHT does, 140C for 2-5 seconds. Shelf-stable without refrigeration for up to nine months unless you open it.
Frankly speaking the difference between milk from cows with good diet vs. from cows fed protein slop is greater than between the modes of processing.
Still have PTSD from my mother feeding me raw milk – unlike in the US it’s legal here, also heavily regulated so it wasn’t a health risk microbiology-wise but boy am I sensitive to even slight off-tastes in milk because yes you’re going to interrupt the cooling chain and no that fridge doesn’t have 8C. Unless you’re a cheesemaker or such and it’s necessary for the process, stay away from raw.
And, no, it doesn’t have health benefits. Maybe if your kid doesn’t play outside in the mud and the milk is the only source of germs they’re exposed to, then it may help them to not develop autoimmune disorders. Be sane, choose mud over milk.
Only time I’ve had raw milk was when I was a kid and visited farming friends, since they had a pitcher in the fridge from that days milking. They used it in cooking usually, but it wasn’t that bad to drink.
The laws regarding cow and milk health is way different in Sweden that most other countries though, very strict routines around testing. We can eat raw eggs from the store.
You know that exact kind of thing is why you’re known as arrogant swots all over Europe, don’t you? Do you google whether Denmark has safe tap water before going on ølviking?
If I’m in Denmark to drink beer I take the custom where I am. If the tap water isn’t good, I drink something else.
In my town we had a huge outbreak of cryptosporidium which poisoned all tap water in the city, so no matter regulations no place is guaranteed safe. That’s why you test stuff. If anyone find unhealthy results you need to contain, treat and inform to minimize damage and exposure risk
The reason we are known as arrogant swots is probably not our husbandry rules but our foreign policies that can be naive or straight up delusional (such as thinking chat control is net positive).
I don’t really know though since I have no possibility to leave my farm to travel, neither in time or monetary capabilities
Well yes that’s another reason but trust me when I say that you’re not the only European country with standards for milk and eggs. There’s nothing to brag about. Also, do you even raw pork.
Yeah, we haven’t had trichinella in our domestic pork animals for ages so we can indeed eat raw pork
The thread started about infected milk so I just gave an example of an area where the risk is minimal to emphasize that it’s a legislation or control issue rather than an issue with the food item by itself. I didn’t mean to attack you or imply that any other country is lesser, just that it’s possible to combat if the political will exists
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
on 28 Nov 10:37
collapse
Bo and it is in no way relevant. Since it seems like you think that what I say is wrong, I know this, because I came from a farm.
redisdead@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 11:28
nextcollapse
It is relevant. The quality of the food chain and regulations where you live play a huge role in that particular society’s feel about raw products.
You’d be surprised to find that in some countries people eat raw ground pork as a normal thing and nobody dies.
I’d like to know which farm you worked in because the fact you think so poorly about the food that comes out of it means I absolutely need to avoid anything you guys make.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
on 28 Nov 11:55
nextcollapse
It is relevant. The quality of the food chain and regulations where you live play a huge role in that particular society’s feel about raw products.
OK, you got a point there.
For the other part, you can trust me, that in a refrigerator milk will get bad after 3-4 days. If you cool it at about 2-3°C it is good for longer time(obviously), but I can’t tell how long exactly, because the milk never gets that old. As for Quality its quite interesting, that you make assumptions about it without knowing anything. I can assure you, that the milk has good quality. It gets tested every 2 days in terms of fat, germs, protein, and SCC and all of those parameters are always good.
And meat goes bad in the fridge after only a few more days but I don’t see you having a meltdown over butcher shops existing.
In reality people consume raw milk all the time, it’s just some countries with absolutely garbage consumer protections where you should avoid drinking it.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Nov 20:03
nextcollapse
They’re not really having a meltdown
Meat is frequently bought in single meal/single serving amounts, whereas milk is frequently bought in bulk/multiple-serving amounts. Storing milk is a bigger deal than storing meat, because you much more frequently have leftover milk than leftover raw meat. The two aren’t really comparable.
Like do you only purchase a single serving of meat every time?
Wtf you guys smoking lmao?
You guys are trying so hard to be right you don’t even realize just how dumb it makes you look.
When I get milk I get a few cartons of UHT milk and then one bottle or two of raw milk that I drink first because I’m not a fucking idiot.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Nov 22:48
collapse
I mean, I buy meat a couple pounds at a time, and cook it all at once. The leftovers usually get me most of the way through the week, because I’m usually just cooking for myself. A half gallon of the ultra pasteurized milk will usually last me three or four weeks. Raw milk would be absolutely wasted on me, there’s no way I could get through even a small amount before it spoils. I don’t know why you’re getting so bent out of shape by a take that essentially boils down to “people go through meat faster than milk”, it’s not exactly a hot take.
Meat lasts longer than that. I buy vacuum packed whole prime cuts of meat for about 10 to 12 days, that tastes as good on day 12 (out of vac pack for 2 days) as it did on day 1
You specifically seek out plastic-flavored meat though.
Sure if you get your industrial flavored meat full of plastics and injected with various chemicals to make it keep longer, it’ll obviously keep longer than raw milk.
You do that, I’ll stick to drinking raw milk like I’ve done for the past 40 years without any issue.
problematicPanther@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 09:02
nextcollapse
You see, in America, the milk cattle live in terrible conditions. Mastitis is common. In the US, you really have to pasteurize the milk to kill all the bacteria and viruses that end up in the milk because of the conditions they live in.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
on 28 Nov 10:46
collapse
I can’t say anything about the general health and living conditions of the US cattle, but taking your word for granted its devinetively advised. If the cows are kept under good conditions and a good hygiene is practised usually germs in raw milk aren’t that much of a problem.
There is a video I will not point you to, because a hundred vegans probably have already, that show how sad and disgusting factory farming in the US is. I wouldn’t drink anything that came out of one of those depressing animal factories unless it had been processed to hell and back.
There are better options on the market, but the average American is going to pay a buck or two less for a gallon from the milk factory. Same thing with eggs, meat.
Because raw milk contains everything, including all the fat and all the vitamins.
Processed milk usually is first separated between fat and liquid and then the fat is readded. Also the pasteurization destroys some of the vitamins.
More importantly though it just tastes different.
Finally if you want to make yogurt or cream cheese, you want to work of raw milk because it contains the fermenting bacteria, but that is more of a niche application.
Pasteurization by default does not remove all bacteria and probably also not all viruses. The milk you commonly find in supermarkets these days is not only pasteurized at high temperature, but also homogenized (pressed through a microsieve), which further alters the taste, reduces quality but extends the shelf life.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 14:04
nextcollapse
Why are you getting your vitamins from milk?
redisdead@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 14:33
nextcollapse
Most people get their vitamins from their food, not from dietary supplements.
Because they’re a lot less likely to kill me than raw milk is. Why is this even a question? People have literally died from pathogens they caught from drinking raw milk.
Who, other than people with allergies, has died from eating beans? Because as far as I know, cooked beans do not transmit dangerous pathogens. Raw milk can.
I guess your answer is that no one without allergies has died from eating beans and rather than own up to the silly thing you said, you decided to troll.
The thing I don’t understand is why you thought that wasn’t so blatantly transparent of you or why you think that doesn’t make you look anything but foolish. But you do you.
I will bear in mind from now on that you’re a troll who harasses people and you better hope for your sake you don’t pull this shit with anyone in any of the communities I moderate.
I was just giving reason, that exist to prefer raw milk. I only ever drank raw milk when spending vacations on a farm and i didn’t buy cow milk since a couple of years.
Still i would like to say that i don’t think raw milk is a problematic vector for pandemics to spread. Chance is people will get the shits if hygiene is bad, but i doubt a viral pandemic to spread because of raw milk. More likely would be farm workers getting an infection over the air and then spreading it to other humans.
A source that it’s possible? You really need a source that something carrying viruses can be a transmission vector if it jumps to humans? Because I think you need to take a basic virology course in that case.
For starters i find it unlikely that a respiratory disease is transmitted through food. Possible sure. But by the logic of “possible” rather than “probable” we should never leave the house again.
First of all COVID wasn’t transmitted from eating. It was likely transmitted from animals that were still alive at that market and it was always a respiratory disease.
And then again what is your conclusion? To ban all products and activities, that have a principal possibility of transmitting diseases? Because then nothing much is left to be done. So obviously the probability needs to be a relevant factor. Which brings us back to the question if you have any source of scientists indicating that raw milk would be a relevant vector for the transmission of respiratory diseases.
As it stands it seems to me that you just dislike raw milk for some reason, which has nothing to do with it being a relevant risk for diseases to spread or not.
Pasteurization. The Chinese started doing it 1000 years ago, so I’m not sure why you aren’t aware of it.
As for the “some reason” why I dislike raw milk:
Milk is an excellent medium for microbial growth,[18] and when it is stored at ambient temperature, bacteria and other pathogens soon proliferate.[19] The US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) says improperly handled raw milk is responsible for nearly three times more hospitalizations than any other food-borne disease source, making it one of the world’s most dangerous food products.[20][21] Diseases prevented by pasteurization can include tuberculosis, brucellosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, and Q-fever; it also kills the harmful bacteria Salmonella, Listeria, Yersinia, Campylobacter, Staphylococcus aureus, and Escherichia coli O157:H7,[22][23] among others.
None of these diseases is viral. They are all bacterial. You said:
I think you need to take a basic virology course
As you have such adapt knowledge about virology: Which viral infection is transmitted through raw milk, especially one that can cause a pandemic and can you now finally provide actual scientific sources of scientists considering these an issue? Clearly you must have had these in your virology classes, where you took your in depth virology knowledge from.
Are you now arguing that raw milk is safe and pasteurization is unnecessary because the only incredibly dangerous and infectious diseases that are spread by raw milk are bacterial or are you just trying to deflect? Because I’m thinking it’s the latter. I’m thinking you know how deadly and dangerous many of those diseases are and how they can easily spread from person to person.
Although admittedly, I could have misjudged you this entire time, thinking you were an intelligent and rational person, when in fact you are supremely ignorant. But I don’t think that is the case, I think you’re just evading.
Me: Still i would like to say that i don’t think raw milk is a problematic vector for pandemics to spread. Chance is people will get the shits if hygiene is bad, but i doubt a viral pandemic to spread because of raw milk. More likely would be farm workers getting an infection over the air and then spreading it to other humans.
You: People who study viruses for a living seem to think it’s possible, but I guess as long as you doubt it, no problem.
Me: Pandemic from raw milk? Do you have a source for that?
I am still waiting for the answer on my question. And again if you have such great knowledge in virology and i am lacking such knowledge it should be easy for you to provide me with comprehensive sources supporting your claim, that “People who study viruses for a living seem to think it’s [a viral pandemic to spread because of raw milk] possible”
Putting words in my mouth and changing the goal post doesn’t change the fact that you claim knowledge about virological matters, that you refuse to support with sources.
Yep. Evading. Especially when the largest pandemic in history, the black death, was bacterial (yes, yes, not caused by food).
But go ahead and believe that all of the communicable diseases I listed above, many of which can become airborne and transmissible from human to human, are not a problem related to raw milk that can easily be avoided with a 1000-year-old technique.
I don’t think anything more productive can come out of this discussion now that you’re just basically trolling.
Why do we not have issues with the plague anymore? Because of hygiene. Did any of the diseases you mentioned from raw milk cause pandemics? No. Are there other Bacterial diseases that had been local pandemics? Yes. Cholera mainly. Was the transmission mainly from human to human? No, it was usually through contaminated water.
This is very different from the viral pandemics by the like of the Spanish Flu or the SARS viruses. But none of these spread from people eating contaminated food.
Finally if you want to make yogurt or cream cheese, you want to work of raw milk because it contains the fermenting bacteria, but that is more of a niche application.
If you’re going to make anything from milk that requires bacterial cultures and the conditions under which they will grow, you absolutely do not want whatever random cultures that are in a raw product. You start clean and add the cultures you want to propagate. Source: ferments things at home
People like my boomer mother will buy a gallon of milk and expect it to be good for 2+weeks.
She is part of the reason I do a small shopping every couple days and only buy what I need for the foreseeable future. An entire generation of Americans that are used to everything being so pumped with preservatives that we can eat a Twinkie that rolled under the couch last presidential election.
Yet, we have to scrub eggs of their natural coating at the farm, requiring them to be refrigerated.
Food regulation in the US hasn’t moved very far from the 60s.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
on 28 Nov 13:59
collapse
All i can say is, that at “normal” refrigirator temperatures milk will be good for 3-4 days. Cant say anything for temperatures below that
Did you mean 3-4 days since purchase? Here it’s counted from production date.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
on 28 Nov 15:33
collapse
I mean 3-4 days since production. In this case it might be higher, since Theres no exposure to the surrounding air.
3ntranced@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 13:51
nextcollapse
Is it like a new thing? I never heard anyone making a fuss about raw milk other than like the Amish for the quarter of a century I’ve been around.
It seems to be based around the people who just look for problems to have, like okay when are people gonna start drinking bottled puddle water because “its got natural minerals and bacteria” or some nonsense.
When kept below about 3C raw milk can last 7-10 days. The problem mainly is in the handling - the longer it’s shipped and more it’s handled the higher the likelihood it ends up above safe temperatures, reducing that time significantly. And we’ve all seen how grocery stores handle their perishables… LOL.
Considering farms are pretty much exclusively in rural areas and how rural areas generally lean politically, it’s a testament to the human immune system that food poisoning deaths aren’t more widespread. Or maybe a testament to the usefulness of food production regulations. Guessing we’ll find out which one by 2030, assuming it will be allowed to be reported on.
Or maybe new conspiracy theories will pop up over the next few years, oddly aligning with current health and safety science.
EVEN THOUGH VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM, TURNS OUT THEY’VE BEEN PREVENTING LIBERAL DISEASES THAT CAUSE BABIES TO COUGH THEMSELVES TO DEATH THIS WHOLE TIME!
NOT BRINGING MILK TO JUST UNDER A BOIL MIGHT MAKE IT SAFER TO CONSUME BUT IS HURTING THE OIL COMPANIES THAT GIVE US THE FREEDOM TO TRAVEL (WHEN YOU HAVE AN APPROVED REASON TO TRAVEL)!
SOLAR PANELS STEAL ENERGY FROM THE SUN, REDUCING ITS EXPECTED LIFETIME, BUT BRAND NEW TRUMP PANELS GENERATE FREE ELECTRICITY FROM THE VACUUM WHEN EXPOSED TO DIRECT LIGHT!
Considering farms are pretty much exclusively in rural areas and how rural areas generally lean politically, it’s a testament to the human immune system that food poisoning deaths aren’t more widespread
It may be helpful to read up on food-borne illnesses and their vectors. I say this because what I interpret from your comment is that rural areas are “dirty” and that right-leaning areas are somehow “dirtier” by virtue of being lax in food safety.
Strictly speaking this isn’t the way it works and it’s important to understand how contamination occurs. Almost all pathogens end up in food in two ways: field hands with inadequate sanitation and contamination through handling, processing, and packaging. The vast majority of these cases occur when food supply chains are long and complex and when safety is compromised in the name of profit. For example cutting corners in poultry handling or paying farm workers by the unit rather than by time, such that they are strongly incentivized to urinate or defecate in the field.
Food production regulations are actually quite stringent further along the supply chain (See the Food Safety Modernization Act and Produce Safety Rule) but there are gaps (this is an ag joke) on the production side, particularly in enforcement.
Your best bet is to seek to shorten the supply chain for the food you buy. Avoid processed foods and buy as close to the source as you can. Favoring organically-grown produce direct from a farmer just about guarantees that your food is safe. For example, organic regulations through the National Organic Program require a long period of time between use of manure and harvesting to ensure pathogens break down. It’s a common misconception that poop is used directly on growing crops.
It may be helpful to read up on food-borne illnesses and their vectors. I say this because what I interpret from your comment is that rural areas are “dirty” and that right-leaning areas are somehow “dirtier” by virtue of being lax in food safety.
Yeah, I meant the association between right-leaning and “probably thinks safety regulations are a government overreach and waste of time that can be ignored if you can get away with it”. And non-existent rights for immigrant workers, including unhygienic living conditions imposed on them.
And an assumption that choices between profit or safety will be more likely to err on the side of profit than safety if they believe they can get away with it, with the “fuck you, I got mine” mindset seeming to be stronger on the right.
Thanks for the comment and info though. My own comment wasn’t really fair or useful.
It’s a good point. And certainly a lot are resistant to any oversight or regulation. But I find right-leaning people are actually very quick to obey and are generally pretty compliant, for all the bluster. They are fearful people.
But also there is a strong incentive to ensure food you grow is not going to kill your customers or get you sued. But this only really works when it’s you as an individual. As soon as you are a corporation…
Except for the fact of there always being a relevant xkcd. Maybe Randall isn’t big on self-reference.
iAvicenna@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 08:41
nextcollapse
Crazy how if it was any democrat saying drink raw milk s/he would likely be accused of a conspiracy in which he is trying to spread bird flu so they can have another pandemic and vaccine manufacturers make money out of it. But when a republican says it, s/he is probably celebrated for using the wisdom of our grand grand parents.
If it were to mutate to spread between humans without decreasing in lethality it would probably be the deadliest event in human history by a significant margin.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Nov 19:48
nextcollapse
On the bright side, if H5N1 kills off all its hosts, it’ll effectively eradicate itself
It has been contracted by humans, but because we pasteurize and ultra pasteurize, the problem has been mostly moot. I’m still using ultra pasteurized dairy. It’s typically those who work very closely with the animals and such. Many a farmer will dip into that raw milk for their own table too.
CDC data has 29 human cases 15 of which were serious to critical, with 7 deaths. That is NOT a large enough pool to establish a meaningful percentage, but it’s worth keeping an eye on with some level of concern. Especially with the number of medically minded dipshits we have in this country.
TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Nov 16:02
collapse
I grew up on a dairy farm and we drank raw milk every day. I can remember my sisters bringing the milk pitcher to the barn and dipping into the bulk tank of raw milk every morning or so. No one got sick and no one died. We even made butter at home from it after separating the cream. But pasteurization is a good thing for all you urbane urbanites out there. It increases the shelf life and safety for consumption. Plus it reduces number of small dairies near population centers that used to exist. Dairies can be 100+ miles away now. After all, you wouldn’t want to be exposed to the smell of cow shit right?
Raw milk does taste very different from store bought pasteurized milk, (whole milk ain’t whole). And like shelf stable milk, I doubt anyone of you would like drinking it.
asdfbla@lemmynsfw.com
on 28 Nov 14:45
nextcollapse
When I was a kid, we went to our neighbor who was a small milk farmer and got raw milk basically every day. Never got sick or anything.
Can confirm that raw milk does taste different, and to be honest sometimes I miss the taste when I drink pasteurized milk now
Those are also cows you personally owned and cared for. You knew their health, you knew their living conditions, and the milk wasn’t produced soley (or maybe at all) for big corporate profits where production is the goal, and the animals well-being isn’t.
I’m sure other people would be more supportive if the sources could be trusted, but that’s difficult when you’ve seen how livestock is treated.
You do understand that ALL dairy farms that sell milk are regularly tested for safety of the milk they sell. This is federally mandated. You miss the thresholds for bacteria counts, you will be dumping all your milk produced until it tests clean again. So those cows can’t be held in very dirty and vile conditions because your milk won’t pass those mandated tests. Slackers go broke and are out of business in short order.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for selling pasteurized milk in stores. The milk you buy in the store can be a week old before you see it on the shelf. But the unreasoning fear of raw milk is just plain ridiculous.
LaunchesKayaks@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 15:37
nextcollapse
After surviving one pandemic, it’s totally fair that some of us are a bit wary of raw milk now because multiple places have found bird flu in it. Judging us in the way you are isn’t okay.
LaunchesKayaks@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 15:50
collapse
How was I judging? I was defending those of us who are concerned about the whole raw milk having bird flu thing. I was simply saying that those of us with concerns are valid in our feelings.
If you read all of bluewing’s comments, the tone comes off, imo, as talking down to those of us who are concerned. Bluewing grew up on a dairy drinking raw milk every day and didn’t get sick and seems to be exuding a sense of superiority because of it… I also grew up on raw milk and didn’t get sick from it. Doesn’t make me less concerned over bird flu lol
If you read all of bluewing’s comments, the tone comes off, imo, as talking down to those of us who are concerned
And yet they specifically acknowledged the importance of pasteurization, etc, while simply saying in the right setting raw milk is tasty. That’s not judging that’s simply providing their perspective.
You are being overly sensitive and… IMO & LOL, “exuding a sense of superiority”. Don’t take it too seriously but I always find that basic hypocrisy - and I acknowledge we all do it - just so hilarious.
There was panic about raw milk looonnnggg before Covid. And I if you had read what I wrote, I did say pasteurization IS a good thing and I’m all for it. But it’s just not the evil most think it is.
jodanlime@midwest.social
on 28 Nov 15:45
nextcollapse
Boars Head had federally mandated inspections as well.
Those inspections are carried out by federal inspectors. The incoming administration wants to severely cut funding for pretty much “the government” (except the military). That means fewer inspectorsand less thorough inspections. That’s how things like the Boar’s Head thing, and listeria outbreaks in spinach happen. They’re happening more and more because of industrial farming processes coupled with more relaxed federal inspections.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Nov 18:25
collapse
They’re held in dirty and vile conditions, but they’re also pumped full of antibiotics.
LOL… the downvoting. I think as usual people read the first sentence and that’s it. So you saying “pasteurization is a good thing” got lost.
PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING
But totally agree - raw milk, in the right situation and handled appropriately, which means COWS YOU KNOW is just so much better. To the point where after our one neighbor we’d get it from moved away I just stopped drinking milk at all.
PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING
GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk
on 28 Nov 15:06
nextcollapse
Damn.
I didn’t have “Raw Milk encouraged by the US govt. causes second pandemic in 5 years” on my bingo card for 2025.
Better that than confused people watching videos of Joe Rogan or Trump or something, maybe there’s a natural deterrant against disinformation in the name by just getting people to watch cows all day long. Then again I’m sure people would start taking cow dewormer eventually.
TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Nov 16:03
nextcollapse
TLDR: they boil milk to nuke bacteria, “raw milk” is what they call milk that hasn’t had that happen and is dangerous, especially considering recent events.
Aurora_TheFirstLight@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Nov 17:46
collapse
You know it’s great to question why we do the things the way we do them, but question them and answer them logically
Ugh my wife’s step-sisters husband is a pharmacist. His body is riddled with tumors but he swears the ivermectin and supplements are what’s fighting the cancer. Not the chemo. Nope. That’s promoting the cancer.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
on 29 Nov 10:53
collapse
Agreed. I’m not to fond of him (or my wife’s step-sister, for that matter)…obviously I don’t want him to die, or be in pain…but I feel real bad for his kids (my step-niblings). They’re already at a tough age (middle school), their dad is dying, and they’ve all drunk the Kool aid. The whole side of the family has, save for maybe one or two of my half-BILs.
Last week, the mom (who runs an upscale clothing store) was saying she only wants to hire old white ladies and won’t hire kids anymore. The daughter pipes up saying “yeah kids these days are lazy, they don’t want to work”, parroting the parents talking points. But literally 30 seconds later, the mom is saying that it’s the slow season and she’s spending most of her day watching Netflix. The self-awareness is just completely missing.
Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Nov 17:18
nextcollapse
And Trump isn’t even President yet. But I’m sure this is his fault, or Kennedy’s.
It’s not that they caused it, it’s that they’re putting this forward as a healthier and better alternative to pasteurized milk, which leads to the connection with the news.
Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Nov 17:36
collapse
Well Fresno, CA is Republican, so you’re probably right, some kind of evil R plot to kill people.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
on 28 Nov 17:31
collapse
It’s not about “blaming” anything on anybody. Raw milk is one of the things RFK specifically promises to promote.
Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Nov 17:43
collapse
It looks like it’s State laws that govern whether raw milk sales is legal or not. In Colorado, Arkansas, Alabama, DC, Delaware, and many others it’s completely illegal.
What does the federal government have to do with it? It’s already illegal to transport it across state lines according to federal law.
I dont need specifics because the proof is already there that whatever is being done now isnt working. Just like you argue that efforts to reduce animal consumption are proven futile by the increase in animal consumption year over year.
I think you’re mixing up the means with the end. if your goal is to reduce animal product production, you need to go where animal products are produced and stop it. if your goal is to reduce pollution, go to where pollution is produced, and stop it. but simply stopping consumption, on an individual basis, isn’t going to do it.
Its just as unrealistic that one person affects global pollution as much as it is unrealistic that one person go and personally stop the pollution at the source, isnt it?
It seems like you are arguing noone should do either direct or indirect action, since neither is feasible on an individual basis.
Its just as unrealistic that one person affects global pollution as much as it is unrealistic that one person go and personally stop the pollution at the source, isnt it?
no, one person can shut down a pipeline. it’s just a valve you can turn off.
You know thats absurd or else people would be doing it. Its not just a valve, and its not out in the open with no protections. My cousin used to guard the Alaskan pipeline. How do you suppose I go and affect that without getting shot?
Its less likely than people choosing not to eat meat.
I’m not sure what sort of great effect you expect a single person to have attempting to either steal all the worlds animals and hide them or to destroy oil infrastructure.
Fr. It tastes the same, barely taxing for the environment compared to cow milk (depending on the type of milk), plus you don’t torture animals. Sounds like a win-win-win situation to me
Edit: Gimme your downvotes guys. I thrive on them 💅🏻
i_dont_want_to@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Nov 19:27
nextcollapse
It absolutely does not taste the same. Which works for me because I don’t like the taste of cow milk.
There are some brands that emulate the taste of cow milk for those who want that is what I meant. Obviously my view is skewed given that I’ve been vegan for like 4 years
OhHiMarx@lemmygrad.ml
on 28 Nov 20:21
nextcollapse
I didn’t drink cow milk at all becsuse I find it gross but it definitely does but taste the same
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Nov 22:28
nextcollapse
milking cows isn’t torture, but I’m pretty sure humans have a bigger carbon footprint than cattle
Forceful impregnation, constant pregnancy, kicked and beaten calves and their mothers, separation of calves from the mother and their killing. Shall I go on?
artificial insemination isn’t torture. cows aren’t kept constantly pregnant. kicking and beating cows isn’t part of husbandry. killing cows at the end of their useful life is fine.
Doing so to a creature who can’t consent is pretty wack though.
cows aren’t kept constantly pregnant
Female mammals, including cows, produce milk as a result of pregnancy in order to feed their young. The dairy industry is for-profit, they’re not going to let their dairy cows have downtime from producing milk if there’s money to be made.
kicking and beating cows isn’t part of husbandry.
The meat and dairy industries have lobbied hard for ag-gag laws criminalizing photography on their farms after abuses have been discovered by undercover investigators and activists. It is undoubtedly a part of animal agriculture. Here’s a whole paper about it, if it interests you.
killing cows at the end of their useful life is fine.
It definitely isn’t the worse part of the miserable lives we make them live after breeding them in massive numbers. It’s probably a relief at that point.
Also, just a sidenote here, I scrolled a bit through your history and you seem to go on the defensive for meat and dairy whenever you come across anything relating to veganism or the negative impacts of those industries. You engage with vegan content much more than I do and I’m vegan! I don’t think I can change your mind about veganism, nor do I really feel the desire to write any more than I already have. But, I don’t know, maybe go comment on stuff you enjoy rather than getting riled up about this stuff? It might make for a more enjoyable experience on lemmy.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Nov 00:37
nextcollapse
Doing so to a creature who can’t consent is pretty wack though
it’s a veterinary procedure
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Nov 00:38
nextcollapse
Female mammals, including cows, produce milk as a result of pregnancy in order to feed their young.
they don’t have any volition in the matter. they produce milk. period. but they’re not constantly pregnant.
According to google, they need to birth one calf a year after a 9 month pregnancy, so they are pregnant 3/4 of their adult life, that sounds close enough to constant.
Also, did you need to make 5 different comments?
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Nov 00:39
nextcollapse
The meat and dairy industries have lobbied hard for ag-gag laws criminalizing photography on their farms after abuses have been discovered by undercover investigators and activists.
and that’s bad
but it’s still not necessary to kick cattle for milk
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Nov 00:40
nextcollapse
go comment on stuff you enjoy rather than getting riled up about this stuff
I don’t tell you what to do. kindly return the courtesy.
further, I’m not riled up but your screed indicates you might be.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Nov 00:42
nextcollapse
you seem to go on the defensive for meat and dairy
your characterization is irrelevant to the truth of what I’ve said.
Thanks for writing this up. I just knew they would get all defensive so I didn’t even want to bother replying, but I’m very happy about other people chiming in. vegoon btw ❤️
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Nov 00:43
nextcollapse
The main thing for me is most people are lactose intolerant to some degree. It can be worth trying alternative milks just to see if you feel better with it.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
on 29 Nov 10:55
collapse
They are weak, and can only be purified through the gas of adversity
Edit: flatulence
It occurred to me that the other phrasing could be problematic
Even if you do 95% everclear (which we don’t even have in the EU, we’d fucking kill ourselves with that shit), you’d still only get 47.5% alcohol with the rest being milk, which is not enough to sterilise it.
Like above 42% will kill a lot of stuff in it, but it’s not enough to sterilise it.
Sure man, but I’m a pedant with a shit sense of humour and I like to point out myths that may or may not be actually relevant if it “came down to it.” And unlike in the movies where you just spray some whisky on a wound, alcohol isn’t a magical get-rid-of-all-chance-of-infection when it’s in levels of like <50%.
chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Nov 23:57
nextcollapse
A lot of people take humor as fact, either by not understanding it as satire or by thinking it’s funny because it’s true etc. So while a bit of a party pooper, I don’t think some light correction is all that harmful.
I’ve seen some shit claiming pasteurization is harmful and I just have to ask if the people who believe that know what pasteurization even is, because how the hell does boiling it make it harmful? Shit… If boiling milk makes it toxic, you better stay away from cheese. And a lot of baked goods. Creamy soups. Pasta dishes. Etc.
Not even fully boiling. To quote Wikipedia, because I’m lazy:
The liquid moves in a controlled, continuous flow while subjected to temperatures of 71.5 °C (160 °F) to 74 °C (165 °F), for about 15 to 30 seconds, followed by rapid cooling to between 4 °C (39.2 °F) and 5.5 °C (42 °F).
Literally 30 seconds of “pretty hot”. And people are risking serious illness, even death, over some mythical beliefs about how nutrition works.
watersnipje@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 29 Nov 01:04
collapse
This is the whole “gluten is poison” (for people not actually intolerant to gluten) all over again. Those people also had no idea that it was just wheat protein.
UHT milk tastes disgusting though. Not sure if it’s the additives here in the UK.
Pasteurization is a wonderful thing however.
megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 29 Nov 06:20
collapse
It’s so bizarre to see this discussion play out on the basis of “health”
Because there is a legitimate discussion to be had about the economics of how milk pasteurization requirements have affected local dairy farms. How the unsanitary conditions of industrial scale milk production have made it a necessity. How marketing and corporate interests have shifted consumption patterns.
And yet these fucking dipshits have turned this in to “pasteurized milk personally harms you!” In grifter circles.
How screwed are we that we can’t talk about the complexities of how corporate farming practices have effected our food supplies with out couching it in terms of “health food”.
I cannot express how much I hate the term “health food”. There is no such fucking thing as a “health food”.
It makes me want to rip my hair out when these topics come up.
Agreed with everything you said. I had a class about bio processes and one of them was about production of cheese and during the class both our professor and the scientist that was walking us through the chemistry of cheese making were constantly talking how pasteurization was really good for us all and how annoying it was that it made cheese making more difficult because of the way it messed with casein and other proteins, making it so that the cheese wouldn’t “coagulate” correctly (they used a specific term that I cannot remember for the life of me, sorry) but that was all. A protein being bent up a bit doesn’t negatively affect the milk of where just drinking it or using it to bake, Ave even for cheese making there are tequiniques to still make it into cheese with pasteurized milk.
This problem has always bugged me writ large as well. It seems nearly impossible to have any conversation that looks at the bigger picture of things in a complete and nuanced way.
Take for example employment rates. It’s just taken as a given that high employment is the goal. But stop and think about that for a second. In any other part of your life is your goal to completely saturate all time with labor? No, obviously not.
But the goals are set and we must achieve them. More money next quarter than last quarter, it doesn’t matter if every conceivable customer already has a subscription, we must grow. Make the product cheaper to make, charge more, do anything but consider that we might have picked stupid goals.
threaded - newest
Hey, I live there and someone just posted on our local Facebook page asking where to get some raw milk. I’ll send them a link.
Of course it was from Fresno, lol
Heyo, that’s where I live 😅
Relax, it isn’t human to human transmissible.
Yet.
It hasn’t been documented yet, sure, I’ll give you that. You and I both have no idea if it has happened already and the patients didn’t get tested or they didn’t go to the hospital or doctor with the bird flu. They might not have even realized they had the flu.
Not with that attitude
The attitude doesn’t seem to be a problem here.
Bunch of adluts getting pink eye flu from their kids says it already has been
isn’t that the place with the freaky haunted pants?
lol, yup.
Please explain.
<img alt="img" src="https://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/fresno-nightcrawler.jpeg"> pants are haunted
So this is someone trolling I presume? Or we got a grade A SCP
What the fuck
cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Fresno_Nightcrawler
I bet the solution is so fast, it’s past your eyes before you know it.
Edit: for anybody who is hearing impaired.
Sounds like something a guy named Louie would think of.
idk, seems like an idea that should be sent out to pasture.
Louie CK? Funny guy, weird shaped penis.
Hmm, a sign language pun. Interesting!
Past-yer-eyes milk. Nice.
Just have a spoon of pesticides after drinking that pure natural raw milk. If it’s good for the corn it’s good for you.
Throw in some powerful antibiotics too … if it’s good for the cow, it’s good for you
Must undergo a rectal palpation first, in order to
assesassess health.A bit of roundup and horse paste, the MAGA cure-all.
Don’t forget to sun your taint. I hear that cures all sorts of things
A sun-goatse of sorts.
Some relatively unknown French microbiologist is rolling in his grave right now.
Sacre Bleu!
Mmmmerde!
Sanitation is being put out to Pasteur
This is a top grade pun.
“LOUIS PASTEUR WAS A FASCIST IN LINE WITH THE NEW WORLD ORDER!” - Big D
.
Tbf, raw milk is delicious.
Lol there’s no difference
One does come with a bunch of potentially dangerous microbes
The microbes add a distinctly tangy flavor!
Of course there’s a difference. That’s like saying there’s no difference between a rare steak and a well done steak. Yes, they’re both steak, and to some extent they taste the same, but they are very different.
So is chicken sashimi.
Only in Japan tho
And pork sashimi.
Compared to UHT milk or refrigeration required milk?
brain parasites: yes… YEEEESS…
Lol, that’s actually not fair.
Uh oh you violated the cardinal rule of Lemmy and posted an opinion at odds with the intent of the OP.
I agree raw milk is delicious. Too bad most people cannot experience that safely.
Moo moo! Moo!
Raw milk now getting “Bird Flued on Date”
Fuck, dude, it’s already in California? I was hoping it was at least somewhat contained to Canada but clearly I haven’t been keeping up with the news on the issue.
It’s in our factory farming animals. It’s been that way for a while. The administration if just fucking around with it and not culling like they should.
And farmers are concealing their infected herds because they don’t want their animals culled. So just assume it is everywhere. We are probably on pandemic II feat. RFK Jr and Trump very soon and it is going to be a lot of fun.
Hmmm. Maybe theres still a little time, but rather unlikely.
Yeah, who knows. There is a possibility that they get a vaccine for farm animals soon and that ends the pandemic. But I’m not counting on it. I’ve stocked up on masks and the like, but I’ve never stopped with social distancing, masking and the like so a new flu pandemic isn’t going to change my life much.
It might disrupt my plans to travel, but I’m glad to hear people are busy preparing this time.
I just drank like 2 glasses of milk because it was strawberry flavored :(
Raw milk or pasteurized? The latter is most likely ok.
I sure hope they chug that stuff.
What is contained in Canada? Bird flu? There has only been one case and they are unsure where the teenager got it from.
Fortune favors the bold. Hand me a glass at random.
Might get some hate here for this, but I’ve tried this company’s cheese. It’s the best cheddar cheese I’ve ever tasted.
Why would you get hate for that? Just because a company that sells cheese also sells raw milk when they probably shouldn’t?
Nah, the owners of the company are batshit
Raw milk does usually make better cheese, sadly.
Fun fact:
The dairy was fined in 2023 for a Salmonella outbreak and is very militantly anti-government.
The why seems pretty clear.
at least CVD isn’t contagious
*yet
Every new infection is a new dice roll for a human-human infection mutation
Low chance, but let’s hope we don’t get XCOM’d
Cardiovascular disease is never going to be contagious, except through socially transmitted values that say it is okay to commit atrocity against cattle.
Ah, sorry. Was still at the bird flu from op
I feel like it’s only a matter of time until I see a headline that says, ‘White House votes A-trocities A-OK!’
Some people might have said the same about cancer too
Edit: Forget cancer.
Huh. Turns out heart failure can be contagious.
I’m cool with idiots who don’t know any better getting what’s coming to them… but I’m not really cool with them sneezing on the same door handles I turn.
Except the same people end up serving it to their kids
Weird. I thought they were anti-abortion.
Only until they’re born. After that, they’re 100% pro death. Execution penalty all the way.
The more deadly pseudoscience that spreads the fewer conservatives there are in America, so I can’t say I mind stuff like this too much.
I mind it. In isolation it would be fine, but with their ignorance, these types punish and harm their families, mainly their children, who would otherwise just grow up to cut contact with them anyway, long as they didn’t end up sharing their views. Plus when it’s disease, they just have to walk near a person who isn’t another conservative to spread it. As we learned from covid, the best person to be wearing the mask is the sick one, and they don’t play along.
And they will blame it on someone else causing them to become sick like 5G or wifi
So, I don’t really understand the science, but my son is only able to drink raw milk. When he drinks normal milk, he has terrible stomach aches and mad diarrhea. When he drinks raw milk, it’s all rainbows and butterflies. For reference, he’s 3 and has been drinking the raw milk for around a year and a half. Also, the rest of the family had no issues drinking pasteurized milk. Maybe somebody smarter than me could explain why this is?
Have the rest of the family conduct a double-blind test. In other words, neither you nor the child now which is which.
This might be helpful, or it might be unrelated.
Recently, I made mozzarella from scratch. In order to do that, I needed some milk that wasn’t homogenised. Homogenisation is the process of breaking up the fat globules within milk into smaller droplets so they’re more evenly dispersed throughout the liquid, meaning there won’t be a fatty layer that separates out when you leave the milk to stand.
Most milk that you buy at the supermarket would be both homogenised and pasteurised. I learned that pasteurised milk could work for cheese, depending on the specific temperature the milk was heated to during pasteurisation (because the required minimum temperature for pasteurization is below the temperature that causes issues for mozzarella, but some brands pasteurise at a higher temperature. Unfortunately most brands don’t say what temperature they pasteurise at, but I got lucky with the first one I tried). That part’s not especially relevant to you and is mostly cheese related
The thing I wanted to suggest, out of scientific curiosity more than helpfulness, is that I wonder how your son would do with pasteurised, non-homogenised milk — perhaps it’s the homogenisation that’s causing the problem, rather than the pasteurisation. If you do try this, I’d be interested to hear back how things go; I haven’t heard of anyone having issues like this before
Oh, interesting. I’ll have to look into where to find that.
Maybe don’t fucking feed him milk at all? Whoa mind blown…
I felt so much better once I stopped drinking cow milk. If you look into the science, you really don’t need it in your diet at all. Dairy lobbyists managed to get the government to promote it as necessary for health, though.
FWIW, there’s a lot we don’t know - but are learning - about bacteria and the gut. For example, if I’m not mistaken, a baby gets a lot of important gut bacteria from it’s mum through breastfeeding.
So when I hear all this argument about raw vs pasteurised milk, I expect there really is something of health benefit to raw milk, just there’s a big downside of harmful pathogens that can be cured with pasteurization. That doesn’t mean all raw milk is unsafe. Like with raw eggs in the UK, or not iodizing your vegetables, it can be safer with care over production.
Anyway, that is to say, I figure there could be some interaction with the bacteria in the raw milk helping your son to digest it.
But having seen the other comment suggesting homogenisation, that sounds more likely to me. (Just a guess though.)
There seems to be some disagreements among the healthcare community as well. With my son, we tried normal milk, goat’s milk, and raw. The raw was the only one that didn’t cause the gut issues. We mentioned this to his pediatrician, and he told us there was no difference. When we mentioned the variance to a different physician, he said there absolutely would be reason for him to react with the pasteurized but not the raw. I think he mentioned something about the breakdown of protiens when milk is pasteurized, but I can’t remember for sure.
That’s very interesting. Thank you for sharing.
I hope things work out well for your son.
Should totally stop feeding him raw milk, get those lactose-free milk instead.
I actually think we may have tried lactaid as well, with a similar reaction. My wife would remember for sure.
Just use oat milk. It’s creamy and delicious, and it lasts longer.
You should give oat milk a try (or soy/almond, but oat tastes the best imo)
For some reason all the soy and oat milks I’ve tried taste terribly sour and bitter to me. At times I think “am I going crazy”, when people around me describe them tasting sweet.
Though also some vegetables, like coriander and parsley taste soapy and bitter to me, so maybe its some quirky genetics thing.
There’s sweetened and unsweetened ones so that might be it but who knows.
Have you tried nut or grain milk? I like oat, soy, and rice, but cashew is pretty good, too.
You’re going to be pretty sad when your kid dies due to your poorly informed decisions.
They really should start selling it and marketing it as never frozen fresh. It’ll be even more effective that way once its legal nationwide.
Wonder if they tried heating the milk up to 63 degrees C for 30 mins before consumption?
Maybe that would help.
Why would you say crazy, nonsense things like that?
Sorry, I am out of line.
But I do think it could catch on.
Nah just add a little ivermectin and you’re good!
Just use bleach! It kills 99.9 percent of germs.
I’ve been injecting Oxy-Clean™ - my lungs never felt so fresh!
I wish they would irradiate it instead of boiling. Irradiation is completely safe and preserves the nutritional benefits. But the raw milk people are generally opposed to that, and irradiation has a PR problem. Sadness.
I also imagine on the company side it’s probably more expensive to do that rather than just making it hot enough.
What nutritional benefits does it preserve exactly?
Does it taste different? Of raw milk tastes different than pasteurized milk than radiated milk might taste different too.
It taste differently and it usually hasnt gone through the separation of cream from the milk so it has high fat content and sometimes fat drops on the surface
.
Pasteurization doesn’t boil the milk though…
UHT does, 140C for 2-5 seconds. Shelf-stable without refrigeration for up to nine months unless you open it.
Frankly speaking the difference between milk from cows with good diet vs. from cows fed protein slop is greater than between the modes of processing.
Still have PTSD from my mother feeding me raw milk – unlike in the US it’s legal here, also heavily regulated so it wasn’t a health risk microbiology-wise but boy am I sensitive to even slight off-tastes in milk because yes you’re going to interrupt the cooling chain and no that fridge doesn’t have 8C. Unless you’re a cheesemaker or such and it’s necessary for the process, stay away from raw.
And, no, it doesn’t have health benefits. Maybe if your kid doesn’t play outside in the mud and the milk is the only source of germs they’re exposed to, then it may help them to not develop autoimmune disorders. Be sane, choose mud over milk.
Only time I’ve had raw milk was when I was a kid and visited farming friends, since they had a pitcher in the fridge from that days milking. They used it in cooking usually, but it wasn’t that bad to drink.
The laws regarding cow and milk health is way different in Sweden that most other countries though, very strict routines around testing. We can eat raw eggs from the store.
Milk: livsmedelsverket.se/…/mjolkens-kvalitet---kontrol…
Eggs and birds:
jordbruksverket.se/djur/…/salmonella
www.livsmedelsverket.se/…/salmonella
You know that exact kind of thing is why you’re known as arrogant swots all over Europe, don’t you? Do you google whether Denmark has safe tap water before going on ølviking?
If I’m in Denmark to drink beer I take the custom where I am. If the tap water isn’t good, I drink something else.
In my town we had a huge outbreak of cryptosporidium which poisoned all tap water in the city, so no matter regulations no place is guaranteed safe. That’s why you test stuff. If anyone find unhealthy results you need to contain, treat and inform to minimize damage and exposure risk
The reason we are known as arrogant swots is probably not our husbandry rules but our foreign policies that can be naive or straight up delusional (such as thinking chat control is net positive).
I don’t really know though since I have no possibility to leave my farm to travel, neither in time or monetary capabilities
Well yes that’s another reason but trust me when I say that you’re not the only European country with standards for milk and eggs. There’s nothing to brag about. Also, do you even raw pork.
Yeah, we haven’t had trichinella in our domestic pork animals for ages so we can indeed eat raw pork
The thread started about infected milk so I just gave an example of an area where the risk is minimal to emphasize that it’s a legislation or control issue rather than an issue with the food item by itself. I didn’t mean to attack you or imply that any other country is lesser, just that it’s possible to combat if the political will exists
Interesting, I’m not well-versed in pasteurization techniques.
Sorry to hear about the raw milk PTSD. I’ve never had it, and don’t plan on it.
Thanks for giving me something (UHT) to look into.
America, home of the brave and land of fucking around and finding out.
Slow pastuerization kills the same amount of microbes as flash… without killing all the flavor of the milk.
But it takes longer, so it’s not good for business
Killing your customers similarly tends to have detrimental effects on businesses.
Unless you provide pensions.
Am i seeing this right, that you can buy raw milk in grocery stores? What the fuck?
Raw milk gets bad way to fast in order to sell it in a grocery store.
I believe it has to be bought at the farm but they still do commercial packaging
That’s interesting. I wouldn’t have thought, that so many people buy raw milk, that its profitable to do commercial packaging.
Why are people surprised by this? Do you guys not have refrigerators in your grocery stores?
We do, but we also have pasteurization.
It’s like saying ‘yes we have foie gras but we also have store brand meat product.’
Mmm gourmet bacteria and viruses.
If they’re not from the USA they’re just sparkling pathogens.
Oh no, germs. You should go ahead and inject yourself with UV bleach.
You should go ahead and inject yourself with e. coli.
I would but the food control and regulations in my country make it unlikely to happen.
Raw milk gets bad after about 3-4 days, even with constant cooling. This period is way to short to sell it at grocerie stores in any big scale.
Are you american?
Bo and it is in no way relevant. Since it seems like you think that what I say is wrong, I know this, because I came from a farm.
It is relevant. The quality of the food chain and regulations where you live play a huge role in that particular society’s feel about raw products.
You’d be surprised to find that in some countries people eat raw ground pork as a normal thing and nobody dies.
I’d like to know which farm you worked in because the fact you think so poorly about the food that comes out of it means I absolutely need to avoid anything you guys make.
OK, you got a point there.
For the other part, you can trust me, that in a refrigerator milk will get bad after 3-4 days. If you cool it at about 2-3°C it is good for longer time(obviously), but I can’t tell how long exactly, because the milk never gets that old. As for Quality its quite interesting, that you make assumptions about it without knowing anything. I can assure you, that the milk has good quality. It gets tested every 2 days in terms of fat, germs, protein, and SCC and all of those parameters are always good.
And meat goes bad in the fridge after only a few more days but I don’t see you having a meltdown over butcher shops existing.
In reality people consume raw milk all the time, it’s just some countries with absolutely garbage consumer protections where you should avoid drinking it.
Do you go to the store to buy meat every meal?
Like do you only purchase a single serving of meat every time?
Wtf you guys smoking lmao?
You guys are trying so hard to be right you don’t even realize just how dumb it makes you look.
When I get milk I get a few cartons of UHT milk and then one bottle or two of raw milk that I drink first because I’m not a fucking idiot.
I mean, I buy meat a couple pounds at a time, and cook it all at once. The leftovers usually get me most of the way through the week, because I’m usually just cooking for myself. A half gallon of the ultra pasteurized milk will usually last me three or four weeks. Raw milk would be absolutely wasted on me, there’s no way I could get through even a small amount before it spoils. I don’t know why you’re getting so bent out of shape by a take that essentially boils down to “people go through meat faster than milk”, it’s not exactly a hot take.
Oh I get it now.
Meat lasts longer than that. I buy vacuum packed whole prime cuts of meat for about 10 to 12 days, that tastes as good on day 12 (out of vac pack for 2 days) as it did on day 1
Bro is eating microplastic flavored meat and talks smack about raw milk.
We live in a microplastic flavoured world mate. I don’t recall talking smack about milk
You specifically seek out plastic-flavored meat though.
Sure if you get your industrial flavored meat full of plastics and injected with various chemicals to make it keep longer, it’ll obviously keep longer than raw milk.
You do that, I’ll stick to drinking raw milk like I’ve done for the past 40 years without any issue.
NO NO NO raw milk bad! Alternative ideas bad! New evidence bad! Bad things bad!
I know what you mean but this amuses me immensely.
username checks out
You see, in America, the milk cattle live in terrible conditions. Mastitis is common. In the US, you really have to pasteurize the milk to kill all the bacteria and viruses that end up in the milk because of the conditions they live in.
I can’t say anything about the general health and living conditions of the US cattle, but taking your word for granted its devinetively advised. If the cows are kept under good conditions and a good hygiene is practised usually germs in raw milk aren’t that much of a problem.
There is a video I will not point you to, because a hundred vegans probably have already, that show how sad and disgusting factory farming in the US is. I wouldn’t drink anything that came out of one of those depressing animal factories unless it had been processed to hell and back.
There are better options on the market, but the average American is going to pay a buck or two less for a gallon from the milk factory. Same thing with eggs, meat.
Conscious food choices are a luxury, here.
They’re forced to stand in their own squalor without stalls being mucked out. It’s cruel and disgusting.
Okay, whether or not raw milk is generally safe, why buy it when there’s an alternative that removes the pathogens?
THe PaThOGeNs aRe gOoD fOr yOU!!!
Because raw milk contains everything, including all the fat and all the vitamins.
Processed milk usually is first separated between fat and liquid and then the fat is readded. Also the pasteurization destroys some of the vitamins.
More importantly though it just tastes different.
Finally if you want to make yogurt or cream cheese, you want to work of raw milk because it contains the fermenting bacteria, but that is more of a niche application.
Pasteurization by default does not remove all bacteria and probably also not all viruses. The milk you commonly find in supermarkets these days is not only pasteurized at high temperature, but also homogenized (pressed through a microsieve), which further alters the taste, reduces quality but extends the shelf life.
Why are you getting your vitamins from milk?
Most people get their vitamins from their food, not from dietary supplements.
Last I checked, food other than milk exists.
.
What the fuck kind of stupid answer is that?
Last I checked, food other than beans exists.
You generally cook beans before you eat them. Guess what pasteurization essentially does?
Why are you getting your vitamin from beans
Because they’re a lot less likely to kill me than raw milk is. Why is this even a question? People have literally died from pathogens they caught from drinking raw milk.
foodsafetynews.com/…/owner-of-raw-milk-creamery-b…
People have died from eating beans.
Why are you defending the bean eaters.
Who, other than people with allergies, has died from eating beans? Because as far as I know, cooked beans do not transmit dangerous pathogens. Raw milk can.
Again, I’m not sure why this is even comparable.
<img alt="" src="https://64.media.tumblr.com/d27523d1aaa79c131d1b63af6c0ba294/tumblr_pepq7d14aM1qcjgv5_640.jpg">
This you?
I guess your answer is that no one without allergies has died from eating beans and rather than own up to the silly thing you said, you decided to troll.
The thing I don’t understand is why you thought that wasn’t so blatantly transparent of you or why you think that doesn’t make you look anything but foolish. But you do you.
Ok bean eater.
Sorry… are you trying to insult me by saying I eat the same thing literally billions of other people eat? What ails you?
Ok bean eater
I sincerely hope you get the help you obviously need.
I sincerely hope you beat your bean addiction
I will bear in mind from now on that you’re a troll who harasses people and you better hope for your sake you don’t pull this shit with anyone in any of the communities I moderate.
Don’t worry I don’t intend to engage in a conversation in any bean or bean related community.
You apparently did. But you won’t be anymore.
Hopefully one day you will be able to enjoy a nice, bean-free day too.
There is no hope for you enjoying Lemmy Shitpost one day.
which is ironic, considering this conversation pretty much turned into a shitpost the moment you ask why someone was getting vitamin from food.
I was just giving reason, that exist to prefer raw milk. I only ever drank raw milk when spending vacations on a farm and i didn’t buy cow milk since a couple of years.
Still i would like to say that i don’t think raw milk is a problematic vector for pandemics to spread. Chance is people will get the shits if hygiene is bad, but i doubt a viral pandemic to spread because of raw milk. More likely would be farm workers getting an infection over the air and then spreading it to other humans.
People who study viruses for a living seem to think it’s possible, but I guess as long as you doubt it, no problem.
Pandemic from raw milk? Do you have a source for that?
A source that it’s possible? You really need a source that something carrying viruses can be a transmission vector if it jumps to humans? Because I think you need to take a basic virology course in that case.
For starters i find it unlikely that a respiratory disease is transmitted through food. Possible sure. But by the logic of “possible” rather than “probable” we should never leave the house again.
That’s not how viruses work. They evolve. They can become airborne. How are you not aware of this? It’s literally what happened with COVID.
First of all COVID wasn’t transmitted from eating. It was likely transmitted from animals that were still alive at that market and it was always a respiratory disease.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2
And then again what is your conclusion? To ban all products and activities, that have a principal possibility of transmitting diseases? Because then nothing much is left to be done. So obviously the probability needs to be a relevant factor. Which brings us back to the question if you have any source of scientists indicating that raw milk would be a relevant vector for the transmission of respiratory diseases.
As it stands it seems to me that you just dislike raw milk for some reason, which has nothing to do with it being a relevant risk for diseases to spread or not.
Pasteurization. The Chinese started doing it 1000 years ago, so I’m not sure why you aren’t aware of it.
As for the “some reason” why I dislike raw milk:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization
But do explain why such outbreaks should be risked for the sake of someone having a kind of milk they prefer the taste of.
None of these diseases is viral. They are all bacterial. You said:
As you have such adapt knowledge about virology: Which viral infection is transmitted through raw milk, especially one that can cause a pandemic and can you now finally provide actual scientific sources of scientists considering these an issue? Clearly you must have had these in your virology classes, where you took your in depth virology knowledge from.
Are you now arguing that raw milk is safe and pasteurization is unnecessary because the only incredibly dangerous and infectious diseases that are spread by raw milk are bacterial or are you just trying to deflect? Because I’m thinking it’s the latter. I’m thinking you know how deadly and dangerous many of those diseases are and how they can easily spread from person to person.
Although admittedly, I could have misjudged you this entire time, thinking you were an intelligent and rational person, when in fact you are supremely ignorant. But I don’t think that is the case, I think you’re just evading.
I am still waiting for the answer on my question. And again if you have such great knowledge in virology and i am lacking such knowledge it should be easy for you to provide me with comprehensive sources supporting your claim, that “People who study viruses for a living seem to think it’s [a viral pandemic to spread because of raw milk] possible”
Putting words in my mouth and changing the goal post doesn’t change the fact that you claim knowledge about virological matters, that you refuse to support with sources.
Yep. Evading. Especially when the largest pandemic in history, the black death, was bacterial (yes, yes, not caused by food).
But go ahead and believe that all of the communicable diseases I listed above, many of which can become airborne and transmissible from human to human, are not a problem related to raw milk that can easily be avoided with a 1000-year-old technique.
I don’t think anything more productive can come out of this discussion now that you’re just basically trolling.
Why do we not have issues with the plague anymore? Because of hygiene. Did any of the diseases you mentioned from raw milk cause pandemics? No. Are there other Bacterial diseases that had been local pandemics? Yes. Cholera mainly. Was the transmission mainly from human to human? No, it was usually through contaminated water.
This is very different from the viral pandemics by the like of the Spanish Flu or the SARS viruses. But none of these spread from people eating contaminated food.
If you’re going to make anything from milk that requires bacterial cultures and the conditions under which they will grow, you absolutely do not want whatever random cultures that are in a raw product. You start clean and add the cultures you want to propagate. Source: ferments things at home
.
These people voted for trump. Critical thinking isn’t in their repertoire.
Imagine deliberately paying a premium for food that can make you seriously ill.
This applies to maybe 80% of what’s in a grocery store.
Doesn’t it last 5-7 days? In Europe it is long enough.
People like my boomer mother will buy a gallon of milk and expect it to be good for 2+weeks.
She is part of the reason I do a small shopping every couple days and only buy what I need for the foreseeable future. An entire generation of Americans that are used to everything being so pumped with preservatives that we can eat a Twinkie that rolled under the couch last presidential election.
Yet, we have to scrub eggs of their natural coating at the farm, requiring them to be refrigerated.
Food regulation in the US hasn’t moved very far from the 60s.
All i can say is, that at “normal” refrigirator temperatures milk will be good for 3-4 days. Cant say anything for temperatures below that
Looked at milk I have.
Did you mean 3-4 days since purchase? Here it’s counted from production date.
I mean 3-4 days since production. In this case it might be higher, since Theres no exposure to the surrounding air.
Is it like a new thing? I never heard anyone making a fuss about raw milk other than like the Amish for the quarter of a century I’ve been around.
It seems to be based around the people who just look for problems to have, like okay when are people gonna start drinking bottled puddle water because “its got natural minerals and bacteria” or some nonsense.
Raw water was a thing. Not sure if it’s still a trend but it definately happened.
Isn’t that just like Fiji water type brands where they just “fill the bottles with natural spring water” when it’s just coming from some basin?
Here’s the link to the Cleveland Clinic article about the raw water trend: health.clevelandclinic.org/raw-water
When kept below about 3C raw milk can last 7-10 days. The problem mainly is in the handling - the longer it’s shipped and more it’s handled the higher the likelihood it ends up above safe temperatures, reducing that time significantly. And we’ve all seen how grocery stores handle their perishables… LOL.
Filthy farming practices don’t help.
No they don’t. And that applies universally.
Considering farms are pretty much exclusively in rural areas and how rural areas generally lean politically, it’s a testament to the human immune system that food poisoning deaths aren’t more widespread. Or maybe a testament to the usefulness of food production regulations. Guessing we’ll find out which one by 2030, assuming it will be allowed to be reported on.
Or maybe new conspiracy theories will pop up over the next few years, oddly aligning with current health and safety science.
EVEN THOUGH VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM, TURNS OUT THEY’VE BEEN PREVENTING LIBERAL DISEASES THAT CAUSE BABIES TO COUGH THEMSELVES TO DEATH THIS WHOLE TIME!
NOT BRINGING MILK TO JUST UNDER A BOIL MIGHT MAKE IT SAFER TO CONSUME BUT IS HURTING THE OIL COMPANIES THAT GIVE US THE FREEDOM TO TRAVEL (WHEN YOU HAVE AN APPROVED REASON TO TRAVEL)!
SOLAR PANELS STEAL ENERGY FROM THE SUN, REDUCING ITS EXPECTED LIFETIME, BUT BRAND NEW TRUMP PANELS GENERATE FREE ELECTRICITY FROM THE VACUUM WHEN EXPOSED TO DIRECT LIGHT!
It may be helpful to read up on food-borne illnesses and their vectors. I say this because what I interpret from your comment is that rural areas are “dirty” and that right-leaning areas are somehow “dirtier” by virtue of being lax in food safety.
Strictly speaking this isn’t the way it works and it’s important to understand how contamination occurs. Almost all pathogens end up in food in two ways: field hands with inadequate sanitation and contamination through handling, processing, and packaging. The vast majority of these cases occur when food supply chains are long and complex and when safety is compromised in the name of profit. For example cutting corners in poultry handling or paying farm workers by the unit rather than by time, such that they are strongly incentivized to urinate or defecate in the field.
Food production regulations are actually quite stringent further along the supply chain (See the Food Safety Modernization Act and Produce Safety Rule) but there are gaps (this is an ag joke) on the production side, particularly in enforcement.
Your best bet is to seek to shorten the supply chain for the food you buy. Avoid processed foods and buy as close to the source as you can. Favoring organically-grown produce direct from a farmer just about guarantees that your food is safe. For example, organic regulations through the National Organic Program require a long period of time between use of manure and harvesting to ensure pathogens break down. It’s a common misconception that poop is used directly on growing crops.
Some reading:
USDA food borne illness guide: fsis.usda.gov/…/foodborne-illness-and-disease FSMA Final Rule on Produce Safety: www.fda.gov/…/fsma-final-rule-produce-safety
Yeah, I meant the association between right-leaning and “probably thinks safety regulations are a government overreach and waste of time that can be ignored if you can get away with it”. And non-existent rights for immigrant workers, including unhygienic living conditions imposed on them.
And an assumption that choices between profit or safety will be more likely to err on the side of profit than safety if they believe they can get away with it, with the “fuck you, I got mine” mindset seeming to be stronger on the right.
Thanks for the comment and info though. My own comment wasn’t really fair or useful.
It’s a good point. And certainly a lot are resistant to any oversight or regulation. But I find right-leaning people are actually very quick to obey and are generally pretty compliant, for all the bluster. They are fearful people.
But also there is a strong incentive to ensure food you grow is not going to kill your customers or get you sued. But this only really works when it’s you as an individual. As soon as you are a corporation…
Louis Pasteur is rolling in his grave, watching them raw milk drinkers.
You say that, but far as I know, Pasteur died and the raw milkies are still alive!!1!
Take that, past! We totally futured your ass!
I’m told that if you mix in some bleach, it’ll “do a tremendous number” on the pathogens.
xkcd.com/1217/
always a relevant xkcd no matter the topic
Except for the fact of there always being a relevant xkcd. Maybe Randall isn’t big on self-reference.
Crazy how if it was any democrat saying drink raw milk s/he would likely be accused of a conspiracy in which he is trying to spread bird flu so they can have another pandemic and vaccine manufacturers make money out of it. But when a republican says it, s/he is probably celebrated for using the wisdom of our grand grand parents.
I mean, viruses are kind of Trumps thing. Maybe H5N1 kills another million or so to mark his second term.
H5N1 would kill a lot more than a million if it goes H2H.
H5N1 is way, way more lethal than Covid19.
If it were to mutate to spread between humans without decreasing in lethality it would probably be the deadliest event in human history by a significant margin.
On the bright side, if H5N1 kills off all its hosts, it’ll effectively eradicate itself
It has been contracted by humans, but because we pasteurize and ultra pasteurize, the problem has been mostly moot. I’m still using ultra pasteurized dairy. It’s typically those who work very closely with the animals and such. Many a farmer will dip into that raw milk for their own table too.
CDC data has 29 human cases 15 of which were serious to critical, with 7 deaths. That is NOT a large enough pool to establish a meaningful percentage, but it’s worth keeping an eye on with some level of concern. Especially with the number of medically minded dipshits we have in this country.
it would be celebrated as “freedom”
Louis Pasteur is rolling in his grave…
rollingcurdlingHe is boiling in his grave. Probably milk.
Only for a few seconds. And he’s not even boiling. After that he’s fine.
Is this why Mister Brain Worms wants to sell raw milk? So bird flu spreads since worms hate birds
Surely this is satire. One of you guys made this as a joke, right? Right?!?
I grew up on a dairy farm and we drank raw milk every day. I can remember my sisters bringing the milk pitcher to the barn and dipping into the bulk tank of raw milk every morning or so. No one got sick and no one died. We even made butter at home from it after separating the cream. But pasteurization is a good thing for all you urbane urbanites out there. It increases the shelf life and safety for consumption. Plus it reduces number of small dairies near population centers that used to exist. Dairies can be 100+ miles away now. After all, you wouldn’t want to be exposed to the smell of cow shit right?
Raw milk does taste very different from store bought pasteurized milk, (whole milk ain’t whole). And like shelf stable milk, I doubt anyone of you would like drinking it.
When I was a kid, we went to our neighbor who was a small milk farmer and got raw milk basically every day. Never got sick or anything.
Can confirm that raw milk does taste different, and to be honest sometimes I miss the taste when I drink pasteurized milk now
While I certainly don’t miss milking cows, I too miss the insanely rich texture and flavor of that fresh from the cow milk.
Warm, fresh from the cow, before the cream rose.
Those are also cows you personally owned and cared for. You knew their health, you knew their living conditions, and the milk wasn’t produced soley (or maybe at all) for big corporate profits where production is the goal, and the animals well-being isn’t.
I’m sure other people would be more supportive if the sources could be trusted, but that’s difficult when you’ve seen how livestock is treated.
You do understand that ALL dairy farms that sell milk are regularly tested for safety of the milk they sell. This is federally mandated. You miss the thresholds for bacteria counts, you will be dumping all your milk produced until it tests clean again. So those cows can’t be held in very dirty and vile conditions because your milk won’t pass those mandated tests. Slackers go broke and are out of business in short order.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for selling pasteurized milk in stores. The milk you buy in the store can be a week old before you see it on the shelf. But the unreasoning fear of raw milk is just plain ridiculous.
After surviving one pandemic, it’s totally fair that some of us are a bit wary of raw milk now because multiple places have found bird flu in it. Judging us in the way you are isn’t okay.
But judging bluewing… totally ok?
More importantly: how are they judging again?
How was I judging? I was defending those of us who are concerned about the whole raw milk having bird flu thing. I was simply saying that those of us with concerns are valid in our feelings.
If you read all of bluewing’s comments, the tone comes off, imo, as talking down to those of us who are concerned. Bluewing grew up on a dairy drinking raw milk every day and didn’t get sick and seems to be exuding a sense of superiority because of it… I also grew up on raw milk and didn’t get sick from it. Doesn’t make me less concerned over bird flu lol
And yet they specifically acknowledged the importance of pasteurization, etc, while simply saying in the right setting raw milk is tasty. That’s not judging that’s simply providing their perspective.
You are being overly sensitive and… IMO & LOL, “exuding a sense of superiority”. Don’t take it too seriously but I always find that basic hypocrisy - and I acknowledge we all do it - just so hilarious.
There was panic about raw milk looonnnggg before Covid. And I if you had read what I wrote, I did say pasteurization IS a good thing and I’m all for it. But it’s just not the evil most think it is.
Boars Head had federally mandated inspections as well.
Those inspections are carried out by federal inspectors. The incoming administration wants to severely cut funding for pretty much “the government” (except the military). That means fewer inspectorsand less thorough inspections. That’s how things like the Boar’s Head thing, and listeria outbreaks in spinach happen. They’re happening more and more because of industrial farming processes coupled with more relaxed federal inspections.
They’re held in dirty and vile conditions, but they’re also pumped full of antibiotics.
You have owned a dairy herd?
PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING
LOL… the downvoting. I think as usual people read the first sentence and that’s it. So you saying “pasteurization is a good thing” got lost.
PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING
But totally agree - raw milk, in the right situation and handled appropriately, which means COWS YOU KNOW is just so much better. To the point where after our one neighbor we’d get it from moved away I just stopped drinking milk at all.
PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING
Damn.
I didn’t have “Raw Milk encouraged by the US govt. causes second pandemic in 5 years” on my bingo card for 2025.
I’m not ready for Moovid…
I like to moovid, moovid.
Or cowvid for that matter
I vote Cowvid, but I’m concerned about it being confused with videos of cows.
Better that than confused people watching videos of Joe Rogan or Trump or something, maybe there’s a natural deterrant against disinformation in the name by just getting people to watch cows all day long. Then again I’m sure people would start taking cow dewormer eventually.
For the other non scientists here is a good article explaining what “raw milk” is. uclahealth.org/…/dangers-raw-milk-arise-bacteria
TLDR: they boil milk to nuke bacteria, “raw milk” is what they call milk that hasn’t had that happen and is dangerous, especially considering recent events.
You know it’s great to question why we do the things the way we do them, but question them and answer them logically
The problem is when they ignore the answer to keep asking the question waiting to hear what they want to hear.
Maybe ingest it and then use UV light or inject bleach. I hear Ivermectin helps against everything.
Ugh my wife’s step-sisters husband is a pharmacist. His body is riddled with tumors but he swears the ivermectin and supplements are what’s fighting the cancer. Not the chemo. Nope. That’s promoting the cancer.
Self solving problems are the best problems.
Agreed. I’m not to fond of him (or my wife’s step-sister, for that matter)…obviously I don’t want him to die, or be in pain…but I feel real bad for his kids (my step-niblings). They’re already at a tough age (middle school), their dad is dying, and they’ve all drunk the Kool aid. The whole side of the family has, save for maybe one or two of my half-BILs.
Last week, the mom (who runs an upscale clothing store) was saying she only wants to hire old white ladies and won’t hire kids anymore. The daughter pipes up saying “yeah kids these days are lazy, they don’t want to work”, parroting the parents talking points. But literally 30 seconds later, the mom is saying that it’s the slow season and she’s spending most of her day watching Netflix. The self-awareness is just completely missing.
And Trump isn’t even President yet. But I’m sure this is his fault, or Kennedy’s.
It’s not that they caused it, it’s that they’re putting this forward as a healthier and better alternative to pasteurized milk, which leads to the connection with the news.
Well Fresno, CA is Republican, so you’re probably right, some kind of evil R plot to kill people.
Fresno is Mexican, now what?
It’s not about “blaming” anything on anybody. Raw milk is one of the things RFK specifically promises to promote.
It looks like it’s State laws that govern whether raw milk sales is legal or not. In Colorado, Arkansas, Alabama, DC, Delaware, and many others it’s completely illegal.
What does the federal government have to do with it? It’s already illegal to transport it across state lines according to federal law.
www.britannica.com/procon/milk-debate
ThE FlU Is JuSt A BaD CoLd! If BiRdS CaN TaKe It WhAtS yOuR PrObLeM sNoWfLaKeS?
Stop drinking milk not intended for you, problem solved. Go Vegan !
What about milk intended for me? I mean, my mom may have trouble producing at her age, but…
Fellow lemming is so single they can’t get milk from their partner. UwU
You can’t milk a blow-up doll…
Not with that attitude
I think my girlfriend would be weirded out if I asked her to take domperidone…
Good news! As long as its given consentually then human milk is vegan!
Gross edit: some body builders buy it to bulk up!
the vegan society definition makes no mention of consent.
That could be! Despite that, a big part of minimizing harm is consent!
not necessarily
Correct!
I always am
I found something similar to our vegan debate! Polution!
Its ever increasing year over year, but efforts to reduce pollution have reduced the rate of increase.
Would you argue that since pollution increases year over year that we should abandon our current efforts as its clear they aren’t working?
we should do things that are effective at tackling our problems. your question is too broad to answer with any more specificity.
I dont need specifics because the proof is already there that whatever is being done now isnt working. Just like you argue that efforts to reduce animal consumption are proven futile by the increase in animal consumption year over year.
I think you’re mixing up the means with the end. if your goal is to reduce animal product production, you need to go where animal products are produced and stop it. if your goal is to reduce pollution, go to where pollution is produced, and stop it. but simply stopping consumption, on an individual basis, isn’t going to do it.
Its just as unrealistic that one person affects global pollution as much as it is unrealistic that one person go and personally stop the pollution at the source, isnt it?
It seems like you are arguing noone should do either direct or indirect action, since neither is feasible on an individual basis.
no, one person can shut down a pipeline. it’s just a valve you can turn off.
You know thats absurd or else people would be doing it. Its not just a valve, and its not out in the open with no protections. My cousin used to guard the Alaskan pipeline. How do you suppose I go and affect that without getting shot?
people do it.
Its less likely than people choosing not to eat meat.
I’m not sure what sort of great effect you expect a single person to have attempting to either steal all the worlds animals and hide them or to destroy oil infrastructure.
it would be more effective than buying beans and hoping .
Fr. It tastes the same, barely taxing for the environment compared to cow milk (depending on the type of milk), plus you don’t torture animals. Sounds like a win-win-win situation to me
Edit: Gimme your downvotes guys. I thrive on them 💅🏻
It absolutely does not taste the same. Which works for me because I don’t like the taste of cow milk.
There are some brands that emulate the taste of cow milk for those who want that is what I meant. Obviously my view is skewed given that I’ve been vegan for like 4 years
I didn’t drink cow milk at all becsuse I find it gross but it definitely does but taste the same
milking cows isn’t torture, but I’m pretty sure humans have a bigger carbon footprint than cattle
Forceful impregnation, constant pregnancy, kicked and beaten calves and their mothers, separation of calves from the mother and their killing. Shall I go on?
artificial insemination isn’t torture. cows aren’t kept constantly pregnant. kicking and beating cows isn’t part of husbandry. killing cows at the end of their useful life is fine.
Doing so to a creature who can’t consent is pretty wack though.
Female mammals, including cows, produce milk as a result of pregnancy in order to feed their young. The dairy industry is for-profit, they’re not going to let their dairy cows have downtime from producing milk if there’s money to be made.
The meat and dairy industries have lobbied hard for ag-gag laws criminalizing photography on their farms after abuses have been discovered by undercover investigators and activists. It is undoubtedly a part of animal agriculture. Here’s a whole paper about it, if it interests you.
It definitely isn’t the worse part of the miserable lives we make them live after breeding them in massive numbers. It’s probably a relief at that point.
Also, just a sidenote here, I scrolled a bit through your history and you seem to go on the defensive for meat and dairy whenever you come across anything relating to veganism or the negative impacts of those industries. You engage with vegan content much more than I do and I’m vegan! I don’t think I can change your mind about veganism, nor do I really feel the desire to write any more than I already have. But, I don’t know, maybe go comment on stuff you enjoy rather than getting riled up about this stuff? It might make for a more enjoyable experience on lemmy.
it’s a veterinary procedure
they don’t have any volition in the matter. they produce milk. period. but they’re not constantly pregnant.
According to google, they need to birth one calf a year after a 9 month pregnancy, so they are pregnant 3/4 of their adult life, that sounds close enough to constant. Also, did you need to make 5 different comments?
to be clear, it’s not constant.
and that’s bad
but it’s still not necessary to kick cattle for milk
I don’t tell you what to do. kindly return the courtesy.
further, I’m not riled up but your screed indicates you might be.
your characterization is irrelevant to the truth of what I’ve said.
Thanks for writing this up. I just knew they would get all defensive so I didn’t even want to bother replying, but I’m very happy about other people chiming in. vegoon btw ❤️
The main thing for me is most people are lactose intolerant to some degree. It can be worth trying alternative milks just to see if you feel better with it.
They are weak, and can only be purified through the gas of adversity
Edit: flatulence
It occurred to me that the other phrasing could be problematic
Lol I liked both versions!
Your comment is great. Please keep speaking up for morals!
Appreciate you 🙏🏻❤️
Nah
I greatly enjoy eating vegans. Very lean and easy to catch.
nature doesn’t have intent
Yes it does, we invented it ON PURPOSE
you’re saying that cows aren’t supposed to exist
Food safety is communism!
There is a way. Just mix it with equal parts hard liquor.
So you get a liquid that’d roughly 20% alcohol and mostly milk?
Yeah that’s not gonna do it.
Try this:
<img alt="" src="https://i0.wp.com/drinkhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Everclear_750ML.png">
Even if you do 95% everclear (which we don’t even have in the EU, we’d fucking kill ourselves with that shit), you’d still only get 47.5% alcohol with the rest being milk, which is not enough to sterilise it.
Like above 42% will kill a lot of stuff in it, but it’s not enough to sterilise it.
OK, but pasteurization doesn’t sterilize it either. And if you can’t get everclear, you probably can’t get raw milk. And, OP was making a joke…
Sure man, but I’m a pedant with a shit sense of humour and I like to point out myths that may or may not be actually relevant if it “came down to it.” And unlike in the movies where you just spray some whisky on a wound, alcohol isn’t a magical get-rid-of-all-chance-of-infection when it’s in levels of like <50%.
A lot of people take humor as fact, either by not understanding it as satire or by thinking it’s funny because it’s true etc. So while a bit of a party pooper, I don’t think some light correction is all that harmful.
Very kind of you.
I recall they were telling us it needed to be pretty much exactly 70% to sanitise hands during COVID
Man, a shot of Vodka at 40% has me questioning my life choices, I cannot imagine taking a shot of this goddamn paint thinner holy shit
Yeah, that’s why you mix it with raw milk.
It would suck the water out of your mouth :)
I heard bleach works good too.
I’ve seen some shit claiming pasteurization is harmful and I just have to ask if the people who believe that know what pasteurization even is, because how the hell does boiling it make it harmful? Shit… If boiling milk makes it toxic, you better stay away from cheese. And a lot of baked goods. Creamy soups. Pasta dishes. Etc.
Not even fully boiling. To quote Wikipedia, because I’m lazy:
Literally 30 seconds of “pretty hot”. And people are risking serious illness, even death, over some mythical beliefs about how nutrition works.
This is the whole “gluten is poison” (for people not actually intolerant to gluten) all over again. Those people also had no idea that it was just wheat protein.
And I’m and American in Colombia where they pasteurize the milk to the point where it is stored at room temperature.
UHT milk tastes disgusting though. Not sure if it’s the additives here in the UK.
Pasteurization is a wonderful thing however.
It’s so bizarre to see this discussion play out on the basis of “health”
Because there is a legitimate discussion to be had about the economics of how milk pasteurization requirements have affected local dairy farms. How the unsanitary conditions of industrial scale milk production have made it a necessity. How marketing and corporate interests have shifted consumption patterns.
And yet these fucking dipshits have turned this in to “pasteurized milk personally harms you!” In grifter circles.
How screwed are we that we can’t talk about the complexities of how corporate farming practices have effected our food supplies with out couching it in terms of “health food”.
I cannot express how much I hate the term “health food”. There is no such fucking thing as a “health food”.
It makes me want to rip my hair out when these topics come up.
Agreed with everything you said. I had a class about bio processes and one of them was about production of cheese and during the class both our professor and the scientist that was walking us through the chemistry of cheese making were constantly talking how pasteurization was really good for us all and how annoying it was that it made cheese making more difficult because of the way it messed with casein and other proteins, making it so that the cheese wouldn’t “coagulate” correctly (they used a specific term that I cannot remember for the life of me, sorry) but that was all. A protein being bent up a bit doesn’t negatively affect the milk of where just drinking it or using it to bake, Ave even for cheese making there are tequiniques to still make it into cheese with pasteurized milk.
This problem has always bugged me writ large as well. It seems nearly impossible to have any conversation that looks at the bigger picture of things in a complete and nuanced way.
Take for example employment rates. It’s just taken as a given that high employment is the goal. But stop and think about that for a second. In any other part of your life is your goal to completely saturate all time with labor? No, obviously not.
But the goals are set and we must achieve them. More money next quarter than last quarter, it doesn’t matter if every conceivable customer already has a subscription, we must grow. Make the product cheaper to make, charge more, do anything but consider that we might have picked stupid goals.