Bro if ur using a leaf blower to remove leaves from your lawn and not from your driveway you gotta be extra special
reallykindasorta@slrpnk.net
on 08 Oct 21:03
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A lot of people love their lawn toys (and hate municipal workers and well draining streets I guess).
I lived in Massachusetts for a while and the city I lived in directed people to blow/rake their leaves into the road so a giant vacuum truck could collect them.
Yeah that’s true. There are a ton of arbitrary defined and applied lawn laws in the states. The “no weeds” ones are always funny too, bc more often then not the grass you imported from Asia is more a weed than the native flowers
captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 08 Oct 22:55
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Where i grew up you could have an edible native plant that mosquitoes hate, fixing nitrogen as your ground cover, but no the hoa says grass not mint. I wanted to do guerrilla gardening with wild strawberries there too, but never got around to it.
That said, one non native plant belonged there, the earth made the dandelion one of her greatest and most beloved children, and who am I to disagree.
I was taught as child to hate and fight dandelions. Learned in college that “weeds” like that pull nutrients up from deep in the soil. When they die and rot, those deep roots turn into channels for water.
In the same sense that nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd, a little bit of killing goes a long way towards making a desert.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 03:42
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Yeah they aren’t native here but they’re good at playing nice with native plants. If you notice them outcompeting native taproot plants then go after them, but they’re pretty, they pull water from deep while helping keep deeper soil nice and soily, pollinators often like them, and they’re not only edible but good for you.
There was a little old black lady in Tulsa many years ago whose entire front yard was a mix of native plants and garden. It was very nice and organized, nothing tacky at all. City rolled up and razed it flat. She was crying on TV, I was some mix of enraged and crying.
One winter I lost every plant I owned, and that loss kept me away from houseplants for over a decade. I cannot imagine her pain.
Anyway, where I’m at now I’m basically free to treat our house like white trash. No one can say jack about how I’m keeping it and I’ve shared some ecosystem success stories in this thread.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 09 Oct 07:11
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plus the soil can carry invasive weeds, and diseases, or pests too. and ornamental plants often come from places like asia,etc. people are still growing latana camara in some places.
They don’t want the leaves covering up the unnaturally green grass, and if they clog up the storm system that’s someone downhill’s problem.
village604@adultswim.fan
on 08 Oct 21:13
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That’s why I love my twin blade mower. Turns all yard trimmings into basically powder that feeds the lawn and even helps prevent moisture from evaporating out of the soil.
I also use controlled natural selection so that only shit that can survive our brutal summers grows, so I don’t even need to water.
Was just saying, we got a max of 2" of topsoil in NW Florida. I’m throwing everything back in the yard. Every weed we pull we chunk on the ground. Don’t care if it looks the shit, I’ll hit it with the mower eventually.
It’s impossible to overstate how long topsoil takes to form and how easy it is to trash. At 54, I honestly don’t think I’ll live long enough to add .25" of good soil to this yard. But I’m fuckin’ trying!
My father, and mother after he died, spent 40 fucking years raking the leaves from under the shrubs and throwing them away. Our house was surrounded by lush bushes, entire house, entire back yard. Took little me and dad 4 hard hours to trim all that.
Got back from taking botany related classes in college. Tried to explain that bagging the lawn clippings and raking the leaves would kill everything. She wouldn’t hear it.
Anyway, dad’s dead, mom’s dead, entire fucking yard is dead. Lost it all but some barely hagin’ in there grass. It’s a fucking desert.
Old lady on the corner religiously rakes and burns her leaves, goes after it like it’s her fucking job. We got a max of 2" of topsoil in NW Florida, max. Her entire lot is nearly all sand.
PokerChips@programming.dev
on 09 Oct 17:27
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It’s a shame we work so hard to destroy natural beauty.
Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de
on 08 Oct 19:55
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We tore our front lawn out this summer. By the time we were working in July the (clay) soil under the sod was brick hard for 18 inches before it got workable again.
The yard is now 70% native and the area with high sun is drought tolerant. It’s only been a few weeks and already the pollinators are here in force and there’s a pair of mourning doves that come by to hang out most mornings.
Mine yard is about the same, I’d guess 75% native, wild as hell, can’t walk in a lot of that.
What surprises me is how fast the insects and animals came back. I’m nowhere near the insect population of 4 years back, can’t fix that by myself, but it’s way better.
I know this is a meme, but shit like this is why I allow wild growth on my property. First year I owned my home the ground got muddy as hell from the new build since the ground was all dug up and tilled.
From the second year on I’ve only mowed a path for my driveway and the front walkway and the rest grows wild. Sweetgrass and other native plants anywhere from like 1 to 3 feet tall and the area is high desert (Colorado) so the “weeds” suck up any moisture they can get, no flood, no mud. It’s great. I’ll never understand MFers in the rurals curating lawns.
Plus, it looks nice, and the deer in the area seem to like it as well.
PancakesCantKillMe@lemmy.world
on 08 Oct 21:18
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I love natural growth and we have plenty around (PNW), but that invasive Himalayan Blackberry is constantly creeping back out of the wild edges. We’ve done well enough pushing it back, but it is so pervasive and the animals help spread the seeds. That and the other noxious weeds (Scotch-broom, thistle, tansy, etc) have us quite busy doing our best to remove and keep out. It’s like spitting into the wind if the other land-owners around don’t do it as well. Oh well.
We also planted tons of native “deer-resistant” plants. They love it. I call it deer salad.
guynamedzero@piefed.zeromedia.vip
on 08 Oct 23:25
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If this isn’t the most relatable thing that’s (kinda) specific to me
if the other land-owners around don’t do it as well
My fight with fire ants in the South. Insect populations have tanked over the last 4 years, but the fire ants are on the rampage in the surrounding forest. I poison my neighbor’s yards, it’s still a non-stop fight.
For any Southerner’s coming along; I don’t use any insecticides or herbicides except hydramethylnon. Yeah, it costs more, but a little dab’ll do ya. Amdro is a popular brand name, not sure who else uses it.
TeamAssimilation@infosec.pub
on 08 Oct 21:18
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How do you deal with native fauna that lives in wild vegetation? Mosquitoes, flies, ticks, etc.?
PancakesCantKillMe@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 00:10
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You know it’s odd. We have no streams or ponds. I make certain we have no standing water around us by ensuring unused pots and other items are upturned, but we always have mosquitoes around. It’s forest around us which is very nice, but the mozzies get very thick. I am sure I miss some water, but not enough for the numbers I see. Don’t know how far they’ll travel, but there’s gotta be some junk somewhere on the neighbor’s property in the forest holding water.
They can breed in a few cups of water. Try what I did this year at our camp in the swamp. Purposefully set stagnant water traps, buckets or whatever. Get Mosquito Dunk. Another user here turned me onto that. Its bacteria that kill the larvae.
This was my first year, but it seemed to work. Hard to say because it’s a swamp with loads of neighbor trash and stagnant pools, but the actual camp seemed better. Didn’t hear a single blood sucker today. I know, it’s October, but it’s still in the high 80s down here.
Not anymore, we have zebra mosquitoes. They grow in hedges and bushes and require very little water. They also come out in the warm daytime and will bite you 4-6 times in a row before it starts to itch.
anton@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 08 Oct 21:46
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Moskitos live anywhere there is stale water, so either clean it or have it wild enough that other insects outcompet them.
Put your compost pile somewhere you don’t walk past a lot, because that’s where flies congregate.
Ticks aren’t that mobile, they need some animal to carries them there.
I’ve got loads of stale water in 4 ponds from 150G down to 20G. I let those go wild and they filled with tadpoles eating the mosquito larvae and the water attracts dragonflies, the deadliest hunters on Earth. Part I didn’t expect, they went “natural” in 2 weeks! I think much of that was throwing native water plants with their mud balls I dug out.
For water you can’t control like that, say a birdbath, a lemming turned me onto Mosquito Dunk. Take a 1/4 piece and throw it in. Makes bacteria that kills the larvae. I set buckets of swamp water around my camp for traps, hit them and the 2 birdbaths with dunk once a month. Seemed to work, but I need to try again next year.
It essentially all takes care of itself, it’s a whole ecosystem. There’s no standing water for mosquitos thanks to the foliage. There’s also lizards, the occasional frog, birds. The deer eat some of the taller stuff. Even with the deer, there’s at least one mountain lion in the area I’ve seen, which I presume helps keep the population reasonable. I dunno, it doesn’t really need any tending, other than to clear a path where I need.
Aside from that, my neighbor has pine trees, and occasionally pine cones take root and need their root- balls shoveled out. That’s the only big maintenance because I don’t want the big trees on my property. I wouldn’t mind, but for two things:
They always seem to root down near the road on my driveway path or walk-down.
I have solar panels and can’t have them growing up on the southeast side side of the house, and that’s where they tend to fall.
Besides that, I have to knock down the occasional wasp nest (paper wasps) on the house, but if they nest away from the house I leave them alone. It’s all minimal maintenance. If you let nature do its thing it tends to find a balance. Humans are the ones usually screwing it up.
prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works
on 08 Oct 22:44
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I live in a decidedly different environment, but have also let my yard go to native plants (the HoA is mad, but the state passed laws protecting my native plant yard so they can get fucked) and it took a couple years for there to be a bug balance.
I had a ton of aphids the first year, but the second year the aphid wasps and lady bugs knew where I lived to handle them.
Totally different ecosystem here in NW Florida, but I am also getting great results. 75% of the yard hasn’t seen a lawn mower in 2 years, the 25% that has is still fairly wild. Lots of wild plants, lots of non-native but compatible plants, plenty of surface water. We planted a few “ponds”, 150G and smaller. Thought they would take a year or two to take off. NOPE. The 150G I buried last spring was teeming with life in 2 weeks. Maybe I cheated by throwing water plants, from the river and creek in there, along with their native mud. :)
We’re the only house in the hood with; frogs (deafening last spring), hummingbirds, pollinators of all sorts (forgot to make a bee hotel this year), dragonflies (hope to have shitloads when the adults come after 2-years underwater), fewer mosquitoes, butterflies, can’t remember what all.
The insect population is worse than it was 4 short years ago, drastically worse. That scares me more than anything I’ve seen. Even in the hundreds of acres surrounding the hood, not much, not like it was. Hoping I can turn things around in my tiny part of the world.
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 20:25
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I’ll never understand MFers in the rurals curating lawns.
Basically, it’s a flex. In order to have a perfect looking grass yard, you either need to kill all your free time to maintain it, or pay people a lot of cash to keep it tip-top. And the free time thing also requires money since you probably don’t have your life set up like that unless you’re paying for it somewhere else. Any other approach will yield mediocre results which will immediately mark you as unable to keep pace with your more monied neighbors.
Assuming you’re playing their game, that is. Which you clearly are not. Good job!
bigbrowncommie69@lemmygrad.ml
on 08 Oct 20:15
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Wonder if this affects ground water as well
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works
on 08 Oct 20:33
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Also, you can totally have a lawn. It’s a great place to Do Things in your garden, and it’s better than bricks or concrete. I can’t host a bbq in between the shrubs after all.
Just, turn the bits where you don’t Do Things into some other plant than lawn grass. At the very least you don’t really need those corners, and come on, a natural zone is way easier to maintain than a lawn too!
Right with ya, what I’m doing now. We have a tiny house on an 80’x200’ lot and the back 30’ was already left wild. LOL, now the whole backyard is an impassable mess. :)
I’m thinking clover next year if I can afford it. My 70s elementary playground was mostly clover and we beat the shit out of it, 3 times a day. (For you younger folks, “recess” was a time in the morning, at lunch and afternoon when we ran outside and did whatever the fuck we wanted.)
Ironically, they used to adulterate grass seed to clover to make it cheaper. Now we gotta pay a monstrous premium for clover seed. Go figure.
RheumatoidArthritis@mander.xyz
on 09 Oct 05:14
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I have clover in an area where sometimes, maybe once-twice a week, a car parks. It doesn’t hold at all, I’ve been re-sowing it many times, even tried growing it in pots and planting once it matured.
In my area we have communal lawns for lounging, soccer, etc. so that individual homes have smaller gardens, and areas not needed for human activity are allowed to grow wild while in season.
The shape of the roots of the shrubs is somewhat exaggerated. Many do go that deep, but they’re not that wide all the way down. There are only a few types that grow roots that look like that.
There are also deep root grasses if you want a lawn, but don’t want to ruin your soil.
I think it’s a curse to know what HOA even are. Rest of the world is just normal.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social
on 08 Oct 23:43
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Not shown: the limestone 16" down.
LaunchesKayaks@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 01:31
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I was purposefully allowing my grass to grow because my area is in a severe drought and the herbivorous wildlife (groundhogs, rabbits, and deer) have slim pickings right now and they started coming onto my property to eat. I even leave the gates open to the fenced part when I’m not home so the critters can get in easier.
The other day my neighbor mowed half my yard without my consent because he saw a garter snake cross the road and go into my yard. I was, and still am, so pissed. He cut the grass down to the dirt. He didn’t even tell me after the fact. I had to go door to door asking my neighbors if they knew who tf touched my yard while I was out and about. My neighbor admitted to it when I got to his place to ask and had the audacity to get shitty with me about letting my grass grow.
LaunchesKayaks@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 20:43
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It really was. I had to pay my usual grass guy the price of a full cut to finish it, too. Apparently making the drive to my place for less isn’t worth it for him, which I totally understand. I could not afford a full cut on my own, so I had to borrow money from my mom. My usual grass guy is really great and he uses my yard to teach his kids yard work, so my mom didn’t mind helping me out.
Still super bummed about the wildlife needing food though. It’s super illegal to actively feed the wildlife where I live, so I can’t really provide for them.
RedRibbonArmy@sh.itjust.works
on 09 Oct 19:00
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I’ve had something similar happen too. There’s some shitty fucking people out there.
LaunchesKayaks@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 20:44
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Right?? Like this neighbor seemed pretty damn cool until he pulled that shit. He lost a bunch of weight and he suddenly became the biggest dickhead on the planet…🙄
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 01:50
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Why is it someone hasn’t modified the dna of grass to give us one that has both deep roots and works like lawn grass on top.
Context is important. I grew up on 5 acres of pretty wild land so the lawn around the house was anything but fucking stupid.
Gave kids a place to play in view of the big windows in the house, was a very very small part of the overall land. A small maintained area is a very good thing to have access to. But so was the wildness behind it
In more suburban or urban environments is a completely different discussion I will grant you
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 14:49
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That, and I can’t help that my brain is wired to enjoy looking at a well kept lawn. It just is. Though I also like forest. Wish I could have both.
Because releasing genetically modified organisms into the wild can have absolutely disastrous consequences on an ecosystem. I think there are cases where the benefits are worth the risks, but pretty lawn is not one of them. Might be nice in the future when we have a better grasp on what we’re doing.
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 14:51
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Thats a great talking point, but it is BS. Humans have been genetically modifying organsims through selective breeding for millenia. Any animal or plant you eat is nothing like it natural origin.
PokerChips@programming.dev
on 09 Oct 17:25
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And they also have plenty of issues.
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 18:05
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And yet, not disastrous.
PokerChips@programming.dev
on 09 Oct 20:09
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Sure. The chickens that we get from Costco that can’t walk on their own isn’t disastrous to me. Especially since I don’t eat them.
But I get your point.
The chickens that we’ve modified to not walk on their own have not yet blown up our world so we accept their mutation.
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
on 10 Oct 15:45
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Yes, the point I was replying to was basically referring to unintended runaway modifications that could be disastrous like horror movie level. Chickens that can’t walk is not runaway because… well they can’t run, lol, so they also can’t breed. If humans died tomorrow, thoses chickens wouldn’t be far off.
That said, I support lab grown meat research. So we can stop with the chickens that can’t walk. But that won’t save the dogs that can barely breath due to selective breeding.
When you said “modify the DNA”, I thought you were referring to genetic modification in a laboratory, which is capable of enacting dramatic change in a single generation, including unintentional changes. Selective breeding enacts mild iterative changes over a long period of time, and is therefore much less risky.
As others have said, the size of roots is pretty directly tied to the size of foliage. Roots store energy(calories) in case something happens to the foliage or sunlight is low. The more energy they can take in, the more storage they need, as well as the stability that larger plants need from larger roots.
But how do you keep feeding the larger roots if the photosynthetic engines have giving them energy have been damn near removed?
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 14:46
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Hm, this doesn’t fit. You are saying the roots store energy in case the foliage is lost, then saying the roots can’t exist without the foliage. Which is it?
I get that they are energy storage. So the foliage in all plants must generate an excess of energy to fill the storage. That should mean that once the storage is full, extra energy can be spent to extend the roots, then fill with energy, rinse repeat.
It makes perfect sense. When the foliage is cut, it takes energy to regrow it. If there’s not enough greens or sunlight for photosynthesis to account for the plant’s total needs, it will draw those nutrients from the roots into the rest of the plant.
And there’s a whole lot of other things going on in the soil around roots as well. For example the interrelationships between plants and microbes has a tendency to start with the roots exuding sugars into the soil in order to attract those microbes. And that’s just a start. I think it’s really interesting stuff. If you wanna learn more, Regenerative Soil by Matt Powers is a fantastic book on the subject.
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 18:08
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It is really interesting stuff. But it doesn’t explain why the roots can’t be bigger. You can take a small power source and charge a big battery or a small battery. It just takes longer for the big battery.
Well, to some degree it might be possible to selectively breed plants to prioritize root production a little more. I’m not sure to what extent that’s feasible though. You also have to understand, plants have evolved to actively want to be as big as possible. If you’re a small plant, your neighbor is more likely to grow larger than you, which blocks the sun from getting to you, which will cause you to die. So trying to make plants smaller in and of itself has ecological risks. Or at the very least, such naturally short lawns would be a lot more susceptible to weed encroachment.
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
on 10 Oct 15:48
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I see that as a good thing. It’s like a check against uncontrolled spread. They would lose in natural competition. But a lawn of today already would. Yet the deeper roots would be good for the soil, flood control, drought management. Probably just not enough profit in the idea though.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 18:23
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i really love when people assume i’m in the wrong climate zone and soil and end up giving advice that would be useless unless i popped another 3 feet of soil on top of what already exists.
there is a specific method you have to use to grow anything here. no, i’m not going into it as it would be overly identifying.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
on 09 Oct 06:53
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Unless you have really sandy soils. Then the rain mostly passes right through (ignoring all the parts that are paved - insta-flood!), and it’s just a situation with malnourished grass, probably more susceptible to “weeds”, and not a lot of organic matter to hold all that soil together.
That’s the thing missing from this image - it’s not just being more porous that makes larger plants retain water better, it’s that they’re a critical part in creating the conditions that produce more of that organic matter, getting that carbon (and a lot of other stuff) in the ground. It acts as a sponge, and in sandy soils that are too porous, it fills those gaps and acts as a binder.
Is there an alternative to grass that covers well, and doesn’t spread fast like an invasive plant?
I’ve read about clover but it does spread fast.
CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 07:08
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Clover is honestly fine, its short so even if it spreads into your flowerbeds its not going to do any damage, in fact since its a nitrogen fixer it might even help, and insects like clover a lot more than grass
I love the university of Minnesota Bee Lawn page about some ideas. You can also buy pure flower seeds at Flawn
The spreading nature of clover is not overwhelming. I have it everywhere and doesn’t pass even the smallest barrier to my more traditional gardens. It weedy status is more marketing than factual
MashedTech@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 10:37
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Roundup doesn’t want you to know this. In their eyes… Dandelions are weeds, which is such a sad opinion.
whatyoube@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 09 Oct 18:37
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Dandelions are awesome! You can make a salad of them with great health benefits and dandelion honey is also great! And the latex milk it has can be used to make rubber!
You can also make tea out of the leaves, root, and flowers (all together, or some combination of the three).
Dandelions have a lot of vitamin A and C, some B vitamins, calcium, magnesium, potassium, iron, copper, and zinc. It’s good for the skin, liver, and digestion. It’s a diuretic and can help with cramps.
greedytacothief@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 09 Oct 20:29
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When dandelions pop up they let you know to start looking for morels in a week or so. Thank you dandelions.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 18:50
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I had a house with shrubbery growing around it. the roots were dense but light, so no real danger to the foundation. I had mentioned to my wife a couple times about removing the shrubs to replace them with flower beds with smaller shrubs to make it easier to maintain.
one day I came home from work and her dad and her had completely ripped up every shrub along the back of the house.
I was livid. I asked her what she was going to do next because money was tight. She shrugged and said we can save up to plant something for next year.
I explained to her that those shrubs were protecting the foundation from water egress and by removing them we would have water in the crawlspace. she dismissed me and said I was overreacting.
this was just as spring started. guess what happened next? yep, water started to seep into the foundation and the walls were clearly wet. I showed her, explained that in 5-10 years the mortar between the blocks would soften and begin to break down and fall apart.
for context, the house was built in the early 50s and the foundation was just raw concrete blocks without any moisture barrier. the shrubs had been there since the house was built (or at least very nearly the whole time). there was one corner that had a downspout that dropped right on top of the foundation that had some pretty bad spalling but was otherwise in perfect condition.
I don’t know what kind of logical fallacy it is in us humans, but we really think in the present that we live in a time where we’re above nature like that, as if there’s a solution to everything. And not to talk ill of you your wife, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought: “oh well, I’m sure we’ll figure something out before anything bad happens” once you told her. And maybe she just trusted that her father knew better, that’s also not out of the question.
One thing has always been true though: Don’t fuck with water. Just look at the Grand Canyon after all.
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 20:19
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Look, this guy is a phenomenon and worth at least some of your time. Not just for the kill your lawn stuff, but for making botany actually interesting. There’s a whole-ass youtube channel that is sure to entertain if not educate.
threaded - newest
Plus lawns are typically domed up to avoid sogginess, causing tons of runoff into the storm drains (including runoff from sprinklers). It’s lunacy.
I work in municipal government, and I have very strong feeling about leaf blowers.
All these assholes blowing all the great fertilizing trulimmings and dirt off their lawn and into the street to clog up the storm drains.
Bro if ur using a leaf blower to remove leaves from your lawn and not from your driveway you gotta be extra special
A lot of people love their lawn toys (and hate municipal workers and well draining streets I guess).
I lived in Massachusetts for a while and the city I lived in directed people to blow/rake their leaves into the road so a giant vacuum truck could collect them.
Yeah that’s true. There are a ton of arbitrary defined and applied lawn laws in the states. The “no weeds” ones are always funny too, bc more often then not the grass you imported from Asia is more a weed than the native flowers
Where i grew up you could have an edible native plant that mosquitoes hate, fixing nitrogen as your ground cover, but no the hoa says grass not mint. I wanted to do guerrilla gardening with wild strawberries there too, but never got around to it.
That said, one non native plant belonged there, the earth made the dandelion one of her greatest and most beloved children, and who am I to disagree.
I was taught as child to hate and fight dandelions. Learned in college that “weeds” like that pull nutrients up from deep in the soil. When they die and rot, those deep roots turn into channels for water.
In the same sense that nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd, a little bit of killing goes a long way towards making a desert.
Yeah they aren’t native here but they’re good at playing nice with native plants. If you notice them outcompeting native taproot plants then go after them, but they’re pretty, they pull water from deep while helping keep deeper soil nice and soily, pollinators often like them, and they’re not only edible but good for you.
There was a little old black lady in Tulsa many years ago whose entire front yard was a mix of native plants and garden. It was very nice and organized, nothing tacky at all. City rolled up and razed it flat. She was crying on TV, I was some mix of enraged and crying.
One winter I lost every plant I owned, and that loss kept me away from houseplants for over a decade. I cannot imagine her pain.
Anyway, where I’m at now I’m basically free to treat our house like white trash. No one can say jack about how I’m keeping it and I’ve shared some ecosystem success stories in this thread.
plus the soil can carry invasive weeds, and diseases, or pests too. and ornamental plants often come from places like asia,etc. people are still growing latana camara in some places.
They don’t want the leaves covering up the unnaturally green grass, and if they clog up the storm system that’s someone downhill’s problem.
That’s why I love my twin blade mower. Turns all yard trimmings into basically powder that feeds the lawn and even helps prevent moisture from evaporating out of the soil.
I also use controlled natural selection so that only shit that can survive our brutal summers grows, so I don’t even need to water.
Was just saying, we got a max of 2" of topsoil in NW Florida. I’m throwing everything back in the yard. Every weed we pull we chunk on the ground. Don’t care if it looks the shit, I’ll hit it with the mower eventually.
It’s impossible to overstate how long topsoil takes to form and how easy it is to trash. At 54, I honestly don’t think I’ll live long enough to add .25" of good soil to this yard. But I’m fuckin’ trying!
My father, and mother after he died, spent 40 fucking years raking the leaves from under the shrubs and throwing them away. Our house was surrounded by lush bushes, entire house, entire back yard. Took little me and dad 4 hard hours to trim all that.
Got back from taking botany related classes in college. Tried to explain that bagging the lawn clippings and raking the leaves would kill everything. She wouldn’t hear it.
Anyway, dad’s dead, mom’s dead, entire fucking yard is dead. Lost it all but some barely hagin’ in there grass. It’s a fucking desert.
Old lady on the corner religiously rakes and burns her leaves, goes after it like it’s her fucking job. We got a max of 2" of topsoil in NW Florida, max. Her entire lot is nearly all sand.
It’s a shame we work so hard to destroy natural beauty.
We tore our front lawn out this summer. By the time we were working in July the (clay) soil under the sod was brick hard for 18 inches before it got workable again.
The yard is now 70% native and the area with high sun is drought tolerant. It’s only been a few weeks and already the pollinators are here in force and there’s a pair of mourning doves that come by to hang out most mornings.
Mine yard is about the same, I’d guess 75% native, wild as hell, can’t walk in a lot of that.
What surprises me is how fast the insects and animals came back. I’m nowhere near the insect population of 4 years back, can’t fix that by myself, but it’s way better.
I know this is a meme, but shit like this is why I allow wild growth on my property. First year I owned my home the ground got muddy as hell from the new build since the ground was all dug up and tilled.
From the second year on I’ve only mowed a path for my driveway and the front walkway and the rest grows wild. Sweetgrass and other native plants anywhere from like 1 to 3 feet tall and the area is high desert (Colorado) so the “weeds” suck up any moisture they can get, no flood, no mud. It’s great. I’ll never understand MFers in the rurals curating lawns.
Plus, it looks nice, and the deer in the area seem to like it as well.
I love natural growth and we have plenty around (PNW), but that invasive Himalayan Blackberry is constantly creeping back out of the wild edges. We’ve done well enough pushing it back, but it is so pervasive and the animals help spread the seeds. That and the other noxious weeds (Scotch-broom, thistle, tansy, etc) have us quite busy doing our best to remove and keep out. It’s like spitting into the wind if the other land-owners around don’t do it as well. Oh well.
We also planted tons of native “deer-resistant” plants. They love it. I call it deer salad.
If this isn’t the most relatable thing that’s (kinda) specific to me
My fight with fire ants in the South. Insect populations have tanked over the last 4 years, but the fire ants are on the rampage in the surrounding forest. I poison my neighbor’s yards, it’s still a non-stop fight.
For any Southerner’s coming along; I don’t use any insecticides or herbicides except hydramethylnon. Yeah, it costs more, but a little dab’ll do ya. Amdro is a popular brand name, not sure who else uses it.
How do you deal with native fauna that lives in wild vegetation? Mosquitoes, flies, ticks, etc.?
Mosquitoes need standing water
You know it’s odd. We have no streams or ponds. I make certain we have no standing water around us by ensuring unused pots and other items are upturned, but we always have mosquitoes around. It’s forest around us which is very nice, but the mozzies get very thick. I am sure I miss some water, but not enough for the numbers I see. Don’t know how far they’ll travel, but there’s gotta be some junk somewhere on the neighbor’s property in the forest holding water.
They can breed in a few cups of water. Try what I did this year at our camp in the swamp. Purposefully set stagnant water traps, buckets or whatever. Get Mosquito Dunk. Another user here turned me onto that. Its bacteria that kill the larvae.
This was my first year, but it seemed to work. Hard to say because it’s a swamp with loads of neighbor trash and stagnant pools, but the actual camp seemed better. Didn’t hear a single blood sucker today. I know, it’s October, but it’s still in the high 80s down here.
Not anymore, we have zebra mosquitoes. They grow in hedges and bushes and require very little water. They also come out in the warm daytime and will bite you 4-6 times in a row before it starts to itch.
Moskitos live anywhere there is stale water, so either clean it or have it wild enough that other insects outcompet them.
Put your compost pile somewhere you don’t walk past a lot, because that’s where flies congregate.
Ticks aren’t that mobile, they need some animal to carries them there.
I’ve got loads of stale water in 4 ponds from 150G down to 20G. I let those go wild and they filled with tadpoles eating the mosquito larvae and the water attracts dragonflies, the deadliest hunters on Earth. Part I didn’t expect, they went “natural” in 2 weeks! I think much of that was throwing native water plants with their mud balls I dug out.
For water you can’t control like that, say a birdbath, a lemming turned me onto Mosquito Dunk. Take a 1/4 piece and throw it in. Makes bacteria that kills the larvae. I set buckets of swamp water around my camp for traps, hit them and the 2 birdbaths with dunk once a month. Seemed to work, but I need to try again next year.
It essentially all takes care of itself, it’s a whole ecosystem. There’s no standing water for mosquitos thanks to the foliage. There’s also lizards, the occasional frog, birds. The deer eat some of the taller stuff. Even with the deer, there’s at least one mountain lion in the area I’ve seen, which I presume helps keep the population reasonable. I dunno, it doesn’t really need any tending, other than to clear a path where I need.
Aside from that, my neighbor has pine trees, and occasionally pine cones take root and need their root- balls shoveled out. That’s the only big maintenance because I don’t want the big trees on my property. I wouldn’t mind, but for two things:
They always seem to root down near the road on my driveway path or walk-down.
I have solar panels and can’t have them growing up on the southeast side side of the house, and that’s where they tend to fall.
Besides that, I have to knock down the occasional wasp nest (paper wasps) on the house, but if they nest away from the house I leave them alone. It’s all minimal maintenance. If you let nature do its thing it tends to find a balance. Humans are the ones usually screwing it up.
+1 for perma culture!
I live in a decidedly different environment, but have also let my yard go to native plants (the HoA is mad, but the state passed laws protecting my native plant yard so they can get fucked) and it took a couple years for there to be a bug balance.
I had a ton of aphids the first year, but the second year the aphid wasps and lady bugs knew where I lived to handle them.
Nature will balance itself if possible
Mosquitos hardly exist in much of Colorado, so that probably helps them.
Totally different ecosystem here in NW Florida, but I am also getting great results. 75% of the yard hasn’t seen a lawn mower in 2 years, the 25% that has is still fairly wild. Lots of wild plants, lots of non-native but compatible plants, plenty of surface water. We planted a few “ponds”, 150G and smaller. Thought they would take a year or two to take off. NOPE. The 150G I buried last spring was teeming with life in 2 weeks. Maybe I cheated by throwing water plants, from the river and creek in there, along with their native mud. :)
We’re the only house in the hood with; frogs (deafening last spring), hummingbirds, pollinators of all sorts (forgot to make a bee hotel this year), dragonflies (hope to have shitloads when the adults come after 2-years underwater), fewer mosquitoes, butterflies, can’t remember what all.
The insect population is worse than it was 4 short years ago, drastically worse. That scares me more than anything I’ve seen. Even in the hundreds of acres surrounding the hood, not much, not like it was. Hoping I can turn things around in my tiny part of the world.
Basically, it’s a flex. In order to have a perfect looking grass yard, you either need to kill all your free time to maintain it, or pay people a lot of cash to keep it tip-top. And the free time thing also requires money since you probably don’t have your life set up like that unless you’re paying for it somewhere else. Any other approach will yield mediocre results which will immediately mark you as unable to keep pace with your more monied neighbors.
Assuming you’re playing their game, that is. Which you clearly are not. Good job!
Wonder if this affects ground water as well
Also, you can totally have a lawn. It’s a great place to Do Things in your garden, and it’s better than bricks or concrete. I can’t host a bbq in between the shrubs after all.
Just, turn the bits where you don’t Do Things into some other plant than lawn grass. At the very least you don’t really need those corners, and come on, a natural zone is way easier to maintain than a lawn too!
There’s better ground cover that stands up to reasonable wear and tear from activities etc that also improves the soil, unlike standard grasses.
Right with ya, what I’m doing now. We have a tiny house on an 80’x200’ lot and the back 30’ was already left wild. LOL, now the whole backyard is an impassable mess. :)
I’m thinking clover next year if I can afford it. My 70s elementary playground was mostly clover and we beat the shit out of it, 3 times a day. (For you younger folks, “recess” was a time in the morning, at lunch and afternoon when we ran outside and did whatever the fuck we wanted.)
Ironically, they used to adulterate grass seed to clover to make it cheaper. Now we gotta pay a monstrous premium for clover seed. Go figure.
I have clover in an area where sometimes, maybe once-twice a week, a car parks. It doesn’t hold at all, I’ve been re-sowing it many times, even tried growing it in pots and planting once it matured.
Sounds like I need to study on the different types of clover.
In my area we have communal lawns for lounging, soccer, etc. so that individual homes have smaller gardens, and areas not needed for human activity are allowed to grow wild while in season.
The shape of the roots of the shrubs is somewhat exaggerated. Many do go that deep, but they’re not that wide all the way down. There are only a few types that grow roots that look like that.
There are also deep root grasses if you want a lawn, but don’t want to ruin your soil.
thankyourlawn.com/grass-root-depth/
Relevant Climate Town-video which just dropped: nebula.tv/…/climatetown-americas-dumbest-crop/ / youtu.be/KLYMjPNppRQ
ClimateTown just did lawns the other day! www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLYMjPNppRQ
Instructions unclear: lawn covered in bricks and sponges now.
ITT lots of people who blessedly have no idea what an HOA is.
Benefits of living in bumfuck. Though to be real, I’d never buy or build in a HOA. It’s a choice. Renting in HOAs was bad enough in the past.
Ur mom?
/j
Or we know all about them and avoid them at almost all cost.
I think it’s a curse to know what HOA even are. Rest of the world is just normal.
Not shown: the limestone 16" down.
I was purposefully allowing my grass to grow because my area is in a severe drought and the herbivorous wildlife (groundhogs, rabbits, and deer) have slim pickings right now and they started coming onto my property to eat. I even leave the gates open to the fenced part when I’m not home so the critters can get in easier.
The other day my neighbor mowed half my yard without my consent because he saw a garter snake cross the road and go into my yard. I was, and still am, so pissed. He cut the grass down to the dirt. He didn’t even tell me after the fact. I had to go door to door asking my neighbors if they knew who tf touched my yard while I was out and about. My neighbor admitted to it when I got to his place to ask and had the audacity to get shitty with me about letting my grass grow.
that’s so fucked up for them to do that
It really was. I had to pay my usual grass guy the price of a full cut to finish it, too. Apparently making the drive to my place for less isn’t worth it for him, which I totally understand. I could not afford a full cut on my own, so I had to borrow money from my mom. My usual grass guy is really great and he uses my yard to teach his kids yard work, so my mom didn’t mind helping me out.
Still super bummed about the wildlife needing food though. It’s super illegal to actively feed the wildlife where I live, so I can’t really provide for them.
I’ve had something similar happen too. There’s some shitty fucking people out there.
Right?? Like this neighbor seemed pretty damn cool until he pulled that shit. He lost a bunch of weight and he suddenly became the biggest dickhead on the planet…🙄
Why is it someone hasn’t modified the dna of grass to give us one that has both deep roots and works like lawn grass on top.
Because lawns are fucking stupid.
Context is important. I grew up on 5 acres of pretty wild land so the lawn around the house was anything but fucking stupid.
Gave kids a place to play in view of the big windows in the house, was a very very small part of the overall land. A small maintained area is a very good thing to have access to. But so was the wildness behind it
In more suburban or urban environments is a completely different discussion I will grant you
That, and I can’t help that my brain is wired to enjoy looking at a well kept lawn. It just is. Though I also like forest. Wish I could have both.
There are prairie grass stains that have very deep roots. Not sure how they act as a replacement for typical lawns but they exist already
I doubt think it’s a DNA problem, the amount of roots depends on the amount of leaves.
So keeping the grass short keeps the roots sorry as well
But why? Roots act as energy storage, so once full, grow more. Not full stop. That should lead to pretty decent roots.
Because releasing genetically modified organisms into the wild can have absolutely disastrous consequences on an ecosystem. I think there are cases where the benefits are worth the risks, but pretty lawn is not one of them. Might be nice in the future when we have a better grasp on what we’re doing.
Thats a great talking point, but it is BS. Humans have been genetically modifying organsims through selective breeding for millenia. Any animal or plant you eat is nothing like it natural origin.
And they also have plenty of issues.
And yet, not disastrous.
Sure. The chickens that we get from Costco that can’t walk on their own isn’t disastrous to me. Especially since I don’t eat them.
But I get your point.
The chickens that we’ve modified to not walk on their own have not yet blown up our world so we accept their mutation.
Yes, the point I was replying to was basically referring to unintended runaway modifications that could be disastrous like horror movie level. Chickens that can’t walk is not runaway because… well they can’t run, lol, so they also can’t breed. If humans died tomorrow, thoses chickens wouldn’t be far off.
That said, I support lab grown meat research. So we can stop with the chickens that can’t walk. But that won’t save the dogs that can barely breath due to selective breeding.
When you said “modify the DNA”, I thought you were referring to genetic modification in a laboratory, which is capable of enacting dramatic change in a single generation, including unintentional changes. Selective breeding enacts mild iterative changes over a long period of time, and is therefore much less risky.
As others have said, the size of roots is pretty directly tied to the size of foliage. Roots store energy(calories) in case something happens to the foliage or sunlight is low. The more energy they can take in, the more storage they need, as well as the stability that larger plants need from larger roots.
But how do you keep feeding the larger roots if the photosynthetic engines have giving them energy have been damn near removed?
Hm, this doesn’t fit. You are saying the roots store energy in case the foliage is lost, then saying the roots can’t exist without the foliage. Which is it? I get that they are energy storage. So the foliage in all plants must generate an excess of energy to fill the storage. That should mean that once the storage is full, extra energy can be spent to extend the roots, then fill with energy, rinse repeat.
It makes perfect sense. When the foliage is cut, it takes energy to regrow it. If there’s not enough greens or sunlight for photosynthesis to account for the plant’s total needs, it will draw those nutrients from the roots into the rest of the plant.
And there’s a whole lot of other things going on in the soil around roots as well. For example the interrelationships between plants and microbes has a tendency to start with the roots exuding sugars into the soil in order to attract those microbes. And that’s just a start. I think it’s really interesting stuff. If you wanna learn more, Regenerative Soil by Matt Powers is a fantastic book on the subject.
It is really interesting stuff. But it doesn’t explain why the roots can’t be bigger. You can take a small power source and charge a big battery or a small battery. It just takes longer for the big battery.
Well, to some degree it might be possible to selectively breed plants to prioritize root production a little more. I’m not sure to what extent that’s feasible though. You also have to understand, plants have evolved to actively want to be as big as possible. If you’re a small plant, your neighbor is more likely to grow larger than you, which blocks the sun from getting to you, which will cause you to die. So trying to make plants smaller in and of itself has ecological risks. Or at the very least, such naturally short lawns would be a lot more susceptible to weed encroachment.
I see that as a good thing. It’s like a check against uncontrolled spread. They would lose in natural competition. But a lawn of today already would. Yet the deeper roots would be good for the soil, flood control, drought management. Probably just not enough profit in the idea though.
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eh, there’s a shitton of clay about an inch down here. turf ain’t the problem
Dandies eat clay for breakfast
I thought that was a slur for a second.
you’re assuming soil with clay mixed in it. you would be wrong.
Get yourself an earth drill, make some 40cm holes, add earth and plant: sunflowers, dandelions & poppies, tall grass works well too.
www.praxis.nl/tuin-terras-buitenleven/…/5644702
i really love when people assume i’m in the wrong climate zone and soil and end up giving advice that would be useless unless i popped another 3 feet of soil on top of what already exists.
there is a specific method you have to use to grow anything here. no, i’m not going into it as it would be overly identifying.
Unless you have really sandy soils. Then the rain mostly passes right through (ignoring all the parts that are paved - insta-flood!), and it’s just a situation with malnourished grass, probably more susceptible to “weeds”, and not a lot of organic matter to hold all that soil together.
That’s the thing missing from this image - it’s not just being more porous that makes larger plants retain water better, it’s that they’re a critical part in creating the conditions that produce more of that organic matter, getting that carbon (and a lot of other stuff) in the ground. It acts as a sponge, and in sandy soils that are too porous, it fills those gaps and acts as a binder.
Is there an alternative to grass that covers well, and doesn’t spread fast like an invasive plant?
I’ve read about clover but it does spread fast.
Clover is honestly fine, its short so even if it spreads into your flowerbeds its not going to do any damage, in fact since its a nitrogen fixer it might even help, and insects like clover a lot more than grass
native grass, probably
I love the university of Minnesota Bee Lawn page about some ideas. You can also buy pure flower seeds at Flawn
The spreading nature of clover is not overwhelming. I have it everywhere and doesn’t pass even the smallest barrier to my more traditional gardens. It weedy status is more marketing than factual
!nolawns@slrpnk.net
Roundup doesn’t want you to know this. In their eyes… Dandelions are weeds, which is such a sad opinion.
Dandelions are awesome! You can make a salad of them with great health benefits and dandelion honey is also great! And the latex milk it has can be used to make rubber!
You can also make tea out of the leaves, root, and flowers (all together, or some combination of the three).
Dandelions have a lot of vitamin A and C, some B vitamins, calcium, magnesium, potassium, iron, copper, and zinc. It’s good for the skin, liver, and digestion. It’s a diuretic and can help with cramps.
When dandelions pop up they let you know to start looking for morels in a week or so. Thank you dandelions.
I had a house with shrubbery growing around it. the roots were dense but light, so no real danger to the foundation. I had mentioned to my wife a couple times about removing the shrubs to replace them with flower beds with smaller shrubs to make it easier to maintain.
one day I came home from work and her dad and her had completely ripped up every shrub along the back of the house.
I was livid. I asked her what she was going to do next because money was tight. She shrugged and said we can save up to plant something for next year.
I explained to her that those shrubs were protecting the foundation from water egress and by removing them we would have water in the crawlspace. she dismissed me and said I was overreacting.
this was just as spring started. guess what happened next? yep, water started to seep into the foundation and the walls were clearly wet. I showed her, explained that in 5-10 years the mortar between the blocks would soften and begin to break down and fall apart.
for context, the house was built in the early 50s and the foundation was just raw concrete blocks without any moisture barrier. the shrubs had been there since the house was built (or at least very nearly the whole time). there was one corner that had a downspout that dropped right on top of the foundation that had some pretty bad spalling but was otherwise in perfect condition.
she listens to me now.
I don’t know what kind of logical fallacy it is in us humans, but we really think in the present that we live in a time where we’re above nature like that, as if there’s a solution to everything. And not to talk ill of you your wife, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought: “oh well, I’m sure we’ll figure something out before anything bad happens” once you told her. And maybe she just trusted that her father knew better, that’s also not out of the question.
One thing has always been true though: Don’t fuck with water. Just look at the Grand Canyon after all.
Source: https://www.crimepaysbutbotanydoesnt.com/kill-your-lawn
Look, this guy is a phenomenon and worth at least some of your time. Not just for the kill your lawn stuff, but for making botany actually interesting. There’s a whole-ass youtube channel that is sure to entertain if not educate.
His rambling podcasts are great.
Better idea, aerate it. There are loads of tools for that