squaresinger@lemmy.world
on 20 Jun 08:37
nextcollapse
There’s a website (can’t be bothered to google it right now), where they reconstruct modern-day animals from their bones as if they were dinosaurs. It’s ridiculous.
That’s why I think that most of paleontology is just speculative nonsense. You get these nice pictures of dinosaurs in their natural habitat, then you read the paper and it turns out, all they have of that dinosaur is an imprint of half a knuckle bone.
Astronomy is similar. You get pretty images of exoplanets with clouds, continents and oceans, and then you read the paper and all they had was periodic flickering of a star when the planet orbits in between the star and us.
At that rate, they could just also invent a space faring dinosaur civilization from the same fragments of information and it would be just as grounded in reality.
Yeah, that’s my source, thanks for googleing that.
I’m not educated enough in the field to come up with a critique like that on my own ;)
Shiggles@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jun 09:51
nextcollapse
You might like the various works of David Hone, a very talented and well spoken paleontologist who talks in depth about how they know what they do know, and gives several examples of poor paleontology and what they’re doing wrong.
KoboldCoterie@pawb.social
on 20 Jun 10:08
nextcollapse
At that rate, they could just also invent a space faring dinosaur civilization from the same fragments of information and it would be just as grounded in reality.
I want to live on that planet. It can’t possibly be doing worse than we are.
LastYearsIrritant@sopuli.xyz
on 20 Jun 10:45
nextcollapse
Yeah, this is why people don’t trust science. They look at the surface level of the PRESS RELEASE and then assume scientists are just making shit up.
There’s a ton of work done behind the pictures and there’s lots of revisions and changes as new evidence comes in. AND there is disclaimers on ever single “artist rendition”
Science is fucking hard, and the pretty pictures of the press release are just the fun parts that they use to advertise their hard work.
Then people take a brief look at the picture, call bullshit, then go smear them online.
squaresinger@lemmy.world
on 20 Jun 11:28
nextcollapse
Tbh, these artist renditions are almost completely made up. They are made up, because the press won’t print a “We found a piece of bone shrapnel and we guess it might belong to a dinosaur”, but they totally will print a nice image of a dinosaur from Jurassic Park, no matter if it’s truthful or just purely made up.
Science is hard and getting proper science published in regular non-scientific press is even harder, unless you make crap up.
That’s why the fake “chocolate helps you loose weight” study made it into every newspaper front page in existence, while the reveal by the author that the study was faked was completely not covered at all. (He did that to expose how easy it is to get fake science published. He just didn’t expect how little anyone in media cared whether the science published is actually science.)
Real science is hard. Fake science is easy. Debunks and negative peer reviews are just not published. Hence, there’s a huge amount of garbage science floating around and hardly anyone disputes it. Because of blind, unquestioning, religious faith in science.
magic_lobster_party@fedia.io
on 20 Jun 11:34
collapse
People fail to distinguish between popular science and actual science. Popular science is mostly about communicating recent discoveries to the general public, preferably in some entertaining way. Actual science as it’s communicated is really hard for the general public to understand.
Just because popular science often gets it wrong doesn’t necessarily mean that actual science has gotten it wrong.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social
on 20 Jun 12:53
collapse
The best part about actual science is that it usually discovers where more research is needed. It might be wrong because certain previously unknown variables affect it, or it might be right but vastly incomplete.
People don’t naturally like things that leave grey area.
Science doesn’t dictate what is or isn’t right, it’s a process that continues. Some information can’t change, but that is no longer in the realm of science as it’s now a fact.
magic_lobster_party@fedia.io
on 20 Jun 12:56
collapse
Roughly 30% of published, peer-reviewed scientific studies are estimated to be not reproducible. Because nobody takes peer reviews seriously and everyone is just rewarded for publishing, no matter how much of it is garbage.
Remember the “chocolate helps you lose weight” study that went through every stupid newspaper? It was obvious garbage, employing p-hacking, using a fake researcher’s name, using a made-up university institute. And yet it went through peer review without issue, was published in a journal and was picked up by every newspaper under the sun.
Then the author stepped forward and said he only created this fake study to show how easy it is to publish a garbage paper. The thing he didn’t expect was that nobody cared. Nobody printed anything about him retracting his own obviously fake study. No consequences at all were taken to his finding.
Because everyone is incentivized to publish every piece of toilet paper they can find, and nobody cares about the quality.
muhyb@programming.dev
on 20 Jun 08:50
nextcollapse
Just looking at the skeleton, we would reconstruct a lot of thing wrong.
This was already done in “All Todays,” which features depictions of modern animals as distant-future paleontologists might reconstruct them, given just skeletal remains.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
on 20 Jun 09:42
nextcollapse
Wake up babe, they just renamed the Platapudactilisaurus
drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 20 Jun 10:14
nextcollapse
There are actually some fossils of dinosaur mummies, a rare preservation of a rare preservation. For some species these give us direct evidence of their physical appearance beyond their bone structure.
6 year old me would’ve been scared shitless with this information
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jun 20:44
collapse
Imagine Brendan Fraser fighting some of these fuckers, fuck the third Mummy movie set in China give me Brendan Fraser getting his ass kicked in North Dakota because he unearthed some dinosaur mummy at Hell Creek.
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
on 20 Jun 12:51
nextcollapse
Fossils are more than just bone in many cases, and study of bones can reveal what they were. Example is that T. rex had lips. How would they know that? By looking at the teeth and how they wear down compared to other animals like alligators, etc.
jonsnothere@beehaw.org
on 20 Jun 13:56
nextcollapse
This is actually doing a disservice to all the work paleontologists do in reconstructing. There was indeed a time where there was too much stretching over bones, but this is something they are now very aware of. Also keep in mind reptiles, avians and and mammals have a very different relationship between bones and body. It’s mainly mammals that tend to add a lot of bulk like that.
Well, a plucked bird does look pretty different. Then again, fossilized feathers for dinosaurs have been found, so it’s not like we’re completely blind to that, either.
Honestly I think we need to do more blame to the general popular media. AKA while the actual real science has moved so much further forward. Most people will complain and hate it if their dinosaur renditions don’t match what has been set in stone in their minds by Jurrasic Park. Hence feathers are in the minority of renditions of dinosaurs for the mainstream public.
The scientific renditions are pretty accurate. The current movies, books, toys, cartoons, etc… on the other hand are all stuck on a modified for creative and practical reproduction variant of the version that science had in the 80s.
faythofdragons@slrpnk.net
on 20 Jun 20:50
collapse
I agree, and think this ties into my pet peeve, if I may stroke it for a bit; The fact that science is so isolated from the outside world, that the only way the average person can access it is through pop culture interpretations. Pop culture science needs to be held to a higher standard if we won’t fund good science communicators. We’ve left it to ‘market forces’ to fill the gap, and they’ve decided the most cost-effective way of doing that is stuffing it with garbage and slapping a pretty veneer on it.
People go “yeah, but you can read the studies online”, but that ignores that 1) paywalls are a problem and 2) even if you don’t run into a paywall, you need the education to understand what you’re reading. The average american can barely read common english and is exhausted from work, expecting quality self-education to be the standard is a fool’s errand.
he can’t be too chunky due to gigantothermia, though he was probably as chunky as an elephant.
iheartneopets@lemm.ee
on 20 Jun 16:33
nextcollapse
So tired of this meme, especially in a science themed sub. It’s just wrong and thusly promotes disinformation because it takes seconds to read a meme like this and move on without question. Meanwhile it takes (comparitavely) ages to actually research how fossils are reconstructed. If people even think to research it in the first place, because, hey, it’s in a science-based sub, right??
Remember kids, the best memes are those based on truth 😎
TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jun 16:49
nextcollapse
How do you mean? Dinosaurs? They were warmblooded, so no, not just lizards. Usually in the rock around the fossilized bones are imprints of other features of the animal, like skin texture or the presence of feathers.
We can also tell a lot from the points where muscles attach to the bones.
That’s not even accounting for the behavior we can interpret based on fossilized footprints! We’re actually learning that T-Rex were pretty good parents for instance.
It’s a very complex field, and it’s amazing how much we can learn from so few clues.
ok, but can we make fun of old “skin wrapping” reconstructions?
because for most people, Jurassic park are still their standard version of dinosaur reconstitution.
iheartneopets@lemm.ee
on 20 Jun 17:50
nextcollapse
Right, and that’s why most people would believe this meme and take it as 100% truthful. The meme doesn’t specify that that’s the way we USED to do it, it says that’s how it would be done
whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jun 19:13
collapse
Something that stands out to me is how the most colorful creatures are good at evasion. Birds and bugs flying or reef creatures have hiding holes. Other colorful life tends to be toxic.
For this reason I doubt the huge species had color that stood out from their environment.
Prehistoric Planet, I say as an amateur. But from what little I read about it it’s pretty alright apparently, and most of the ‘wrong/we’re not sure about this bit’ things are listed on the wiki afaik.
Of course there’s much more scientific depth possible than a TV show, but it’s a start towards recreating the common notion of what dinosaurs may have looked like.
profgrumpypants@midwest.social
on 21 Jun 05:34
collapse
I was wondering this very thing. As some fossils were preserved whole, as others were not. I believe though, the whole ones, or even the ones that captured large contiguous chunks of tail could disprove this. Not sure, just was having a guess.
*Not due to soft tissue being found but more so signs of trapped decay of some sort.
We sometimes have dinosaur fossil records with feathers. So yeah we already know all the Jurassic park movies are wrong but since we gotten used to them we keep the wrong reconstructions
threaded - newest
Where else would I see a roentgen of a beaver tail?
X-rays of flowers are awesome, also
There’s a website (can’t be bothered to google it right now), where they reconstruct modern-day animals from their bones as if they were dinosaurs. It’s ridiculous.
That’s why I think that most of paleontology is just speculative nonsense. You get these nice pictures of dinosaurs in their natural habitat, then you read the paper and it turns out, all they have of that dinosaur is an imprint of half a knuckle bone.
Astronomy is similar. You get pretty images of exoplanets with clouds, continents and oceans, and then you read the paper and all they had was periodic flickering of a star when the planet orbits in between the star and us.
At that rate, they could just also invent a space faring dinosaur civilization from the same fragments of information and it would be just as grounded in reality.
There is a book discussing that.
This website has a few examples: obscuredinosaurfacts.com/blog/…/all-todays.html?h…
Yeah, that’s my source, thanks for googleing that.
I’m not educated enough in the field to come up with a critique like that on my own ;)
You might like the various works of David Hone, a very talented and well spoken paleontologist who talks in depth about how they know what they do know, and gives several examples of poor paleontology and what they’re doing wrong.
I want to live on that planet. It can’t possibly be doing worse than we are.
Yeah, this is why people don’t trust science. They look at the surface level of the PRESS RELEASE and then assume scientists are just making shit up.
There’s a ton of work done behind the pictures and there’s lots of revisions and changes as new evidence comes in. AND there is disclaimers on ever single “artist rendition”
Science is fucking hard, and the pretty pictures of the press release are just the fun parts that they use to advertise their hard work.
Then people take a brief look at the picture, call bullshit, then go smear them online.
Tbh, these artist renditions are almost completely made up. They are made up, because the press won’t print a “We found a piece of bone shrapnel and we guess it might belong to a dinosaur”, but they totally will print a nice image of a dinosaur from Jurassic Park, no matter if it’s truthful or just purely made up.
Science is hard and getting proper science published in regular non-scientific press is even harder, unless you make crap up.
That’s why the fake “chocolate helps you loose weight” study made it into every newspaper front page in existence, while the reveal by the author that the study was faked was completely not covered at all. (He did that to expose how easy it is to get fake science published. He just didn’t expect how little anyone in media cared whether the science published is actually science.)
Real science is hard. Fake science is easy. Debunks and negative peer reviews are just not published. Hence, there’s a huge amount of garbage science floating around and hardly anyone disputes it. Because of blind, unquestioning, religious faith in science.
People fail to distinguish between popular science and actual science. Popular science is mostly about communicating recent discoveries to the general public, preferably in some entertaining way. Actual science as it’s communicated is really hard for the general public to understand.
Just because popular science often gets it wrong doesn’t necessarily mean that actual science has gotten it wrong.
The best part about actual science is that it usually discovers where more research is needed. It might be wrong because certain previously unknown variables affect it, or it might be right but vastly incomplete.
People don’t naturally like things that leave grey area.
Science doesn’t dictate what is or isn’t right, it’s a process that continues. Some information can’t change, but that is no longer in the realm of science as it’s now a fact.
All models are wrong, but some are useful.
I don’t think you can prove that people can’t do something well, by doing it yourself poorly.
“Look how humorously badly I keep missing the target! See? Sharpshooters could never hit something like this at this distance!”
Roughly 30% of published, peer-reviewed scientific studies are estimated to be not reproducible. Because nobody takes peer reviews seriously and everyone is just rewarded for publishing, no matter how much of it is garbage.
Remember the “chocolate helps you lose weight” study that went through every stupid newspaper? It was obvious garbage, employing p-hacking, using a fake researcher’s name, using a made-up university institute. And yet it went through peer review without issue, was published in a journal and was picked up by every newspaper under the sun.
Then the author stepped forward and said he only created this fake study to show how easy it is to publish a garbage paper. The thing he didn’t expect was that nobody cared. Nobody printed anything about him retracting his own obviously fake study. No consequences at all were taken to his finding.
Because everyone is incentivized to publish every piece of toilet paper they can find, and nobody cares about the quality.
Just looking at the skeleton, we would reconstruct a lot of thing wrong.
Camel:
<img alt="" src="https://i.imgur.com/bqn8GQQ.jpeg">
Platypus:
<img alt="" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Platypus_skeleton_Pengo.jpg">
Seal:
<img alt="" src="https://i.imgur.com/t2rPa0G.jpeg">
Elephant:
<img alt="" src="https://i.imgur.com/JrfFvUT.jpeg">
This seems like a fun way to create new creatures. Take existing skeletons and just try to plop on flesh in unique ways.
This was already done in “All Todays,” which features depictions of modern animals as distant-future paleontologists might reconstruct them, given just skeletal remains.
Example of Elephant, Zebra, and Rhino: <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f2fde5b5-5976-4bce-a660-86126e5fe617.jpeg">
‘All Todays’ Explained - obscuredinosaurfacts.com/blog/…/all-todays.html
Thank you for sharing this. It’s interesting.
Wake up babe, they just renamed the Platapudactilisaurus
There are actually some fossils of dinosaur mummies, a rare preservation of a rare preservation. For some species these give us direct evidence of their physical appearance beyond their bone structure.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_mummy
6 year old me would’ve been scared shitless with this information
Imagine Brendan Fraser fighting some of these fuckers, fuck the third Mummy movie set in China give me Brendan Fraser getting his ass kicked in North Dakota because he unearthed some dinosaur mummy at Hell Creek.
Fossils are more than just bone in many cases, and study of bones can reveal what they were. Example is that T. rex had lips. How would they know that? By looking at the teeth and how they wear down compared to other animals like alligators, etc.
You can also see where the lip muscles attach to the jaw.
The memes that our current Dino images are wrong are very outdated. Our images are probably surprisingly close to reality.
Why don’t you want us to have weird dinosaurs?
We already have them, just follow any paleoartist that microblogs.
There are plenty of weird dinos. Just as there are plenty bonkers contemporary animals. Nature is wild :D
<img alt="" src="https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/58e7bfe5-22b0-45cc-8bf2-15bbc3e4ad34.gif">
.
This is actually doing a disservice to all the work paleontologists do in reconstructing. There was indeed a time where there was too much stretching over bones, but this is something they are now very aware of. Also keep in mind reptiles, avians and and mammals have a very different relationship between bones and body. It’s mainly mammals that tend to add a lot of bulk like that.
Well, a plucked bird does look pretty different. Then again, fossilized feathers for dinosaurs have been found, so it’s not like we’re completely blind to that, either.
Honestly I think we need to do more blame to the general popular media. AKA while the actual real science has moved so much further forward. Most people will complain and hate it if their dinosaur renditions don’t match what has been set in stone in their minds by Jurrasic Park. Hence feathers are in the minority of renditions of dinosaurs for the mainstream public.
The scientific renditions are pretty accurate. The current movies, books, toys, cartoons, etc… on the other hand are all stuck on a modified for creative and practical reproduction variant of the version that science had in the 80s.
I agree, and think this ties into my pet peeve, if I may stroke it for a bit; The fact that science is so isolated from the outside world, that the only way the average person can access it is through pop culture interpretations. Pop culture science needs to be held to a higher standard if we won’t fund good science communicators. We’ve left it to ‘market forces’ to fill the gap, and they’ve decided the most cost-effective way of doing that is stuffing it with garbage and slapping a pretty veneer on it.
People go “yeah, but you can read the studies online”, but that ignores that 1) paywalls are a problem and 2) even if you don’t run into a paywall, you need the education to understand what you’re reading. The average american can barely read common english and is exhausted from work, expecting quality self-education to be the standard is a fool’s errand.
I still think T-rex was a big chonky birb.
<img alt="1000013325" src="https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/b09f946a-f30d-4b51-aada-93d14c8fa115.webp">
Bro did you take half an hour just to draw that shit?
Edit: I love the drawing chill out you fuckers
Dont worry about that, it only took as long as you took writing that comment.
I fucking love the drawing bro
It’s not new. Been around for a long time. I always comment that to draw it out of someone’s meme stash. 🙂
Clever girl
he can’t be too chunky due to gigantothermia, though he was probably as chunky as an elephant.
So tired of this meme, especially in a science themed sub. It’s just wrong and thusly promotes disinformation because it takes seconds to read a meme like this and move on without question. Meanwhile it takes (comparitavely) ages to actually research how fossils are reconstructed. If people even think to research it in the first place, because, hey, it’s in a science-based sub, right??
Remember kids, the best memes are those based on truth 😎
are they actually just lizards?
How do you mean? Dinosaurs? They were warmblooded, so no, not just lizards. Usually in the rock around the fossilized bones are imprints of other features of the animal, like skin texture or the presence of feathers.
We can also tell a lot from the points where muscles attach to the bones.
That’s not even accounting for the behavior we can interpret based on fossilized footprints! We’re actually learning that T-Rex were pretty good parents for instance.
It’s a very complex field, and it’s amazing how much we can learn from so few clues.
ok, but can we make fun of old “skin wrapping” reconstructions?
because for most people, Jurassic park are still their standard version of dinosaur reconstitution.
Right, and that’s why most people would believe this meme and take it as 100% truthful. The meme doesn’t specify that that’s the way we USED to do it, it says that’s how it would be done
so, what is the other reconstitution?
feathers, more chonky, appropriate colours…
not just reptile dragon monsters
Feathers and colours? Dinosaurs must have looked absolutely FABULOUS!
you say it as a joke, but look at the non extinct dinosaurs we have today,
most birds are indeed much more flamboyant than Jurassic park dinosaurs
.
<img alt="" src="https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/261aa70d-0593-4e67-a733-599273dea1a7.jpeg">
Something that stands out to me is how the most colorful creatures are good at evasion. Birds and bugs flying or reef creatures have hiding holes. Other colorful life tends to be toxic.
For this reason I doubt the huge species had color that stood out from their environment.
Prehistoric Planet, I say as an amateur. But from what little I read about it it’s pretty alright apparently, and most of the ‘wrong/we’re not sure about this bit’ things are listed on the wiki afaik.
Of course there’s much more scientific depth possible than a TV show, but it’s a start towards recreating the common notion of what dinosaurs may have looked like.
I was wondering this very thing. As some fossils were preserved whole, as others were not. I believe though, the whole ones, or even the ones that captured large contiguous chunks of tail could disprove this. Not sure, just was having a guess.
*Not due to soft tissue being found but more so signs of trapped decay of some sort.
We sometimes have dinosaur fossil records with feathers. So yeah we already know all the Jurassic park movies are wrong but since we gotten used to them we keep the wrong reconstructions
Here you go.
Relevant. youtu.be/xaQJbozY_Is
You should see the schnozes they’re sticking on hadrosaurs these days.
earthsky.org/…/juvenile-hadrosaur-fossil-reveals-…