Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de
on 02 Dec 03:51
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I mean… basing measurement on representative objects IS the imperial system.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 02 Dec 04:36
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That is ALL measurement systems.
Metric is based on standard meters and kilograms and so forth. And, funny enough, imperial measurements are more or less always based on metric measurements (which are based on said references for metric measurements) anyway.
I still think it is annoying to have to learn and internalize multiple systems (even if “6 feet” is easier to remember than “about 1.8 meters”). But unless you are doing scientific computing (where some of the constants map well to metric when working with certain materials at certain temperatures and pressures), it really doesn’t matter.
All that matters is that everyone stay consistent. And before you say “Well, that is why you use metric”: This solver assumes kg/m^3. That solver assumes g/mm^3 because it is generally used at a very different scale. And that one is kg/cm^3. And so forth. And that sick fuck insists on 3 space indents in all code.
mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 02 Dec 06:10
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Meter is defined as the distance travelled by light in vaccum in 1/299792458th of a second. Then kilogram is defined with a kibble balance. The problem with standaed objects is that it is not fundamental. If the standard decays, the measurements all turn wrong. It is important to associate theese to fundamental constants, which does not change and can be independently measured.
even if “6 feet” is easier to remember than “about 1.8 meters”
Would use 180 cm which is not as hard to remember, with more precision. Also why 6 feet specifically? 160cm becomes 5 and a quarter feet which is pretty messed. My argument here is bad because we are comparing magnitudes of units, which is useful in different scenarios. But i see no problem that is not fixed by dividing or multiplying the current one by powers of ten and calling it centi, kilo, mega, micro, etc.
Not just the scientific computing, but imperial system is harder to learn because there is no specific fashion in the units. How much inch is a foot and how much foot is a yard(?). Actually i don’t know thoose they change between 6 and 12 and maybe more different numbers. The thing you are talking about is water’s volume, which can make water’s density a standard and measure densities of other fluids relative to water. But the conversion factor of 10 is the most advantageous thing which is also simple.
The solver assuming any unit is hilarious. Units must be always specified. You can’t take a measurement in terms of some units and then not say the units. There is no point of using exact same units(without scaling) just to be consistent. You are supposed to use different units for different scales.
And that sick fuck insists on 3 space indents in all code
That’s why I preffer tabs ;) You can have whatever number of space you want without annoying others. It will be consistent for different setups
Edit: Bunch of typos I wrote while I’m half awake
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 02 Dec 15:27
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Meter is defined as the distance travelled by light in vaccum in 1/299792458th of a second.
No, it isn’t. The speed of light is 299792458 meters per second. The meter was not defined as someone saying “Hey, let’s get a drunk guy to spew a big number and divide the speed of light by it”. Depending on the story you believe, the meter was initially either based on math related to gravity or as a function of a quarter of the Earth’s circumference.
Because, once you realize that (modern) imperial feet are a function of standard meters anyway, you can make the same claim regarding it being a function of the speed of light. I just don’t care enough to do the math on that one.
Would use 180 cm which is not as hard to remember, with more precision. Also why 6 feet specifically? 160cm becomes 5 and a quarter feet which is pretty messed. My argument here is bad because we are comparing magnitudes of units, which is useful in different scenarios. But i see no problem that is not fixed by dividing or multiplying the current one by powers of ten and calling it centi, kilo, mega, micro, etc.
In the western world, 6 feet is a pretty common reference since adult males tend to cluster around that height range. So if you are guesstimating the height of someone or something, you can use a person you know is “about six feet tall” as a reference. Same thing with ceiling and door heights. Which speaks to cases where precision is not important and is actually detrimental.
Because, in every day life, we don’t need or want that level of precision. If I actually want to know how long something is to the centimeter (or beyond)? I’ll get a tape measure. If I want to estimate where the middle of my climbing rope is after the middle mark has worn off? I can use arm spans to get “close enough” that I can rappel in any situation where I am not going beyond 20 something meters (and you can bet that I am guesstimating a meter to be approximately a yard in that case…). If it really matters? I am getting a reference (in that case just pulling up both strands).
Not just the scientific computing, but imperial system is harder to learn because there is no specific fashion in the units. How much inch is a foot and how much foot is a yard(?). Actually i don’t know thoose they change between 6 and 12 and maybe more different numbers.
No arguments there. I still have no fucking idea how long a mile is and will never know (… beyond it being approximately a mile at highway speeds, adding in a buffer for traffic). That said, “foot” is actually a pretty good name because that can generally be approximated with an adult male (yay sexism)… foot. I know my foot is about ten inches long (I am dainty) and can do quick estimates at room scales based on that. Same with knowing my stride is about 3-4 feet which is about a yard.
But also? It doesn’t actually matter. Because, again, people don’t need that level of precision in their every day life. Again, if I want to know the dimensions of a room, I get a tape measure. If I want to know if a chair will fit in the corner? I can guesstimate by arm spans and so forth. If I get close? That is when I get the tape measure out. Otherwise? It genuinely does not matter
The thing you are talking about is water’s volume, which can make water’s density a standard and measure densities of other fluids relative to water. But the conversion factor of 10 is the most advantageous thing which is also simple.
Scaling by powers of tens and arbitrary constants are more or less the same as far as a computer is concerned. And once you consider that so much of scientific computing is a function of constants anyway, you aren’t actually getting that much if you are using metric versus imperial so long as you understand what units you are converting to what units.
Because…
The solver assuming any unit is hilarious. Units must be always specified. You can’t take a measurement in terms of some units and then not say the units. There is no point of using exact same units(without scaling) just to be consistent. You are supposed to use different units for different scales.
Exactly (although there actually ARE a lot of unitless solvers in certain fields because you put things in terms of the known constants). At which point it genuinely does not matter so long as the interfaces are documented and the scale makes sense for the math being done (which is more about floating point precision).
We all rightfully clown on NASA for lawn darting Mars because they were using imperial gravity instead of metric. But the reality is that it shouldn’t have mattered and the problem was not one of some asshole wanting to use ft/s and instead a miscommunication and lack of standar
mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 02 Dec 16:18
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No, it isn’t.
No, it is! It just wasn’t. It was initially based on something else but it now is exact.
The imperial units being a function of standard units is not enough. That is tedious conversion. And you seem to repeatedly emphasize its for “common people” and “everyday life”. If digferent units for same quantity isn’t a multiple of powers of 10, then the conversions are no mind calculation. This would alienate units of same quantity from each other.
The six feet thing is just a reference arised only because that unit was used. We could still use “about 160cm(or 16dm if you like) tall” or so to refer to an average person’s height.
I am not making claims on lack of precision of imperial system or so, but lack of consistancy in each of the units within the imperial system.
For scientific computing, its for convenience to see everything in powers of 10. Maybe not the computation itself but let’s say Planck’s constant in a totally different unit would look completely unknown if its not a change in factor of power of 10.
There is no reason to NOT use metric but… that is more just because most of the world uses metric.
And why is that? I think its because its much more consistant, well formed and simple enough that one can identify how long a kilometer is only by knowing how long a meter is.
a_wild_mimic_appears@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 02 Dec 18:47
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I just want to add regarding the “common people, everyday life” stuff: the common people in the rest of the world just use metric in everyday life (with the precision that is useful for the context, body height is normally communicated in 10cm steps - 160, 170, 180 and so on), and it has the additional benefit that the rest of the world still knows what the fuck we are talking about.
And before you say “Well, that is why you use metric”: This solver assumes kg/m^3. That solver assumes g/mm^3 because it is generally used at a very different scale. And that one is kg/cm^3.
Well, that is why you use SI units.
expatriado@lemmy.world
on 02 Dec 04:00
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centikilogram? thats double prefix
bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net
on 02 Dec 04:37
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Centiton, which is very funny.
This is the most in character dialogue I’ve seen in this meme
Centikilogram is 10^-2 x10^3 = 10 grams, a skeleton is 10Kg though, they meant that a skeleton aka centi-ton is 10kg, which is a 1DKg, D meaning 10 and K meaning 10^3 of course. Scalling units can multiply with each other since they are just numbers in disguise.
EleventhHour@lemmy.world
on 02 Dec 04:31
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ahem… science, bitch
Xavienth@lemmygrad.ml
on 02 Dec 04:47
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Well a metric tonne is based on a prefix, so a prefix to that is a double prefix. Skelemegagram to suit that situation which is the wrong way to do it.
A decakilogram would be 10 kg though. But fuck, that’s quite an unwieldy word.
Ranger@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 02 Dec 18:06
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I will use all the archaic measurement I want & you can’t stop me.
IrritableOcelot@beehaw.org
on 02 Dec 23:05
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The SI base unit is actually the kilogram (despite naming), a metric tonne is actually a megagram lol.
Anyhow, if the prefix-less naming matched the base unit, 10 kg would be a “decagram”. As it is, it’s 10,000× the base of the naming system, and there’s no prefix on factors of 10 above 1000, so sadly there’s no way to name it neatly.
Edit: actually it looks the like the Greek for 10,000 is “myriad”, so it would be a myrigram. Dope!
lightnsfw@reddthat.com
on 02 Dec 23:38
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Not only make more sense, it avoid errors. Imperial system don’t even make difference between mass and weight. Some confusion in the imperial system has already cost NASA several space probes. Imperial units are non linear and aleatoric values without any sense, using the measures of bodyparts of an King in the past, obsolete in science, mathematic and architecture. Used in Airlines and nautics, almost by tradition
mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 04 Dec 17:50
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Oh, the date thing. I hate it because it conflicts with rest of the world too 05/06/2024 causes lot of confusion since we can’t even know which system we are using.
Thanks it only happens online not locally in my country
Even more annoying, because there’s a bunch of software with bad localisation where we sane DD/MM/YYYY and YYYY.MM.DD users are forced to see the abomination that is MM/DD/YYY and it leads to errors.
ryedaft@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Dec 18:03
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threaded - newest
I mean… basing measurement on representative objects IS the imperial system.
That is ALL measurement systems.
Metric is based on standard meters and kilograms and so forth. And, funny enough, imperial measurements are more or less always based on metric measurements (which are based on said references for metric measurements) anyway.
I still think it is annoying to have to learn and internalize multiple systems (even if “6 feet” is easier to remember than “about 1.8 meters”). But unless you are doing scientific computing (where some of the constants map well to metric when working with certain materials at certain temperatures and pressures), it really doesn’t matter.
All that matters is that everyone stay consistent. And before you say “Well, that is why you use metric”: This solver assumes kg/m^3. That solver assumes g/mm^3 because it is generally used at a very different scale. And that one is kg/cm^3. And so forth. And that sick fuck insists on 3 space indents in all code.
Meter is defined as the distance travelled by light in vaccum in 1/299792458th of a second. Then kilogram is defined with a kibble balance. The problem with standaed objects is that it is not fundamental. If the standard decays, the measurements all turn wrong. It is important to associate theese to fundamental constants, which does not change and can be independently measured.
Would use 180 cm which is not as hard to remember, with more precision. Also why 6 feet specifically? 160cm becomes 5 and a quarter feet which is pretty messed. My argument here is bad because we are comparing magnitudes of units, which is useful in different scenarios. But i see no problem that is not fixed by dividing or multiplying the current one by powers of ten and calling it centi, kilo, mega, micro, etc.
Not just the scientific computing, but imperial system is harder to learn because there is no specific fashion in the units. How much inch is a foot and how much foot is a yard(?). Actually i don’t know thoose they change between 6 and 12 and maybe more different numbers. The thing you are talking about is water’s volume, which can make water’s density a standard and measure densities of other fluids relative to water. But the conversion factor of 10 is the most advantageous thing which is also simple.
The solver assuming any unit is hilarious. Units must be always specified. You can’t take a measurement in terms of some units and then not say the units. There is no point of using exact same units(without scaling) just to be consistent. You are supposed to use different units for different scales.
That’s why I preffer tabs ;) You can have whatever number of space you want without annoying others. It will be consistent for different setups
Edit: Bunch of typos I wrote while I’m half awake
No, it isn’t. The speed of light is 299792458 meters per second. The meter was not defined as someone saying “Hey, let’s get a drunk guy to spew a big number and divide the speed of light by it”. Depending on the story you believe, the meter was initially either based on math related to gravity or as a function of a quarter of the Earth’s circumference.
Because, once you realize that (modern) imperial feet are a function of standard meters anyway, you can make the same claim regarding it being a function of the speed of light. I just don’t care enough to do the math on that one.
In the western world, 6 feet is a pretty common reference since adult males tend to cluster around that height range. So if you are guesstimating the height of someone or something, you can use a person you know is “about six feet tall” as a reference. Same thing with ceiling and door heights. Which speaks to cases where precision is not important and is actually detrimental.
Because, in every day life, we don’t need or want that level of precision. If I actually want to know how long something is to the centimeter (or beyond)? I’ll get a tape measure. If I want to estimate where the middle of my climbing rope is after the middle mark has worn off? I can use arm spans to get “close enough” that I can rappel in any situation where I am not going beyond 20 something meters (and you can bet that I am guesstimating a meter to be approximately a yard in that case…). If it really matters? I am getting a reference (in that case just pulling up both strands).
No arguments there. I still have no fucking idea how long a mile is and will never know (… beyond it being approximately a mile at highway speeds, adding in a buffer for traffic). That said, “foot” is actually a pretty good name because that can generally be approximated with an adult male (yay sexism)… foot. I know my foot is about ten inches long (I am dainty) and can do quick estimates at room scales based on that. Same with knowing my stride is about 3-4 feet which is about a yard.
But also? It doesn’t actually matter. Because, again, people don’t need that level of precision in their every day life. Again, if I want to know the dimensions of a room, I get a tape measure. If I want to know if a chair will fit in the corner? I can guesstimate by arm spans and so forth. If I get close? That is when I get the tape measure out. Otherwise? It genuinely does not matter
Scaling by powers of tens and arbitrary constants are more or less the same as far as a computer is concerned. And once you consider that so much of scientific computing is a function of constants anyway, you aren’t actually getting that much if you are using metric versus imperial so long as you understand what units you are converting to what units.
Because…
Exactly (although there actually ARE a lot of unitless solvers in certain fields because you put things in terms of the known constants). At which point it genuinely does not matter so long as the interfaces are documented and the scale makes sense for the math being done (which is more about floating point precision).
We all rightfully clown on NASA for lawn darting Mars because they were using imperial gravity instead of metric. But the reality is that it shouldn’t have mattered and the problem was not one of some asshole wanting to use ft/s and instead a miscommunication and lack of standar
No, it is! It just wasn’t. It was initially based on something else but it now is exact.
The imperial units being a function of standard units is not enough. That is tedious conversion. And you seem to repeatedly emphasize its for “common people” and “everyday life”. If digferent units for same quantity isn’t a multiple of powers of 10, then the conversions are no mind calculation. This would alienate units of same quantity from each other.
The six feet thing is just a reference arised only because that unit was used. We could still use “about 160cm(or 16dm if you like) tall” or so to refer to an average person’s height.
I am not making claims on lack of precision of imperial system or so, but lack of consistancy in each of the units within the imperial system.
For scientific computing, its for convenience to see everything in powers of 10. Maybe not the computation itself but let’s say Planck’s constant in a totally different unit would look completely unknown if its not a change in factor of power of 10.
And why is that? I think its because its much more consistant, well formed and simple enough that one can identify how long a kilometer is only by knowing how long a meter is.
I just want to add regarding the “common people, everyday life” stuff: the common people in the rest of the world just use metric in everyday life (with the precision that is useful for the context, body height is normally communicated in 10cm steps - 160, 170, 180 and so on), and it has the additional benefit that the rest of the world still knows what the fuck we are talking about.
Well, that is why you use SI units.
centikilogram? thats double prefix
Centiton, which is very funny.
This is the most in character dialogue I’ve seen in this meme
Centikilogram is 10^-2 x10^3 = 10 grams, a skeleton is 10Kg though, they meant that a skeleton aka centi-ton is 10kg, which is a 1DKg, D meaning 10 and K meaning 10^3 of course. Scalling units can multiply with each other since they are just numbers in disguise.
ahem… science, bitch
But a ton is not 1000 kg, that’s a tonne 🤓
A metric ton would be more accurately called a megagram (Mg).
What Jesse is proposing here is a new prefix of skelegram to be 10,000 grams. That would also mean a skelemeter to be 10,000 m.
An obsolete 10,000 prefix already exits (“myria-”) but Jesse’s prefix is a bit snappier.
Motion to bring “lakh” to the Westen world.
I really want skelemeter to be a word.
It rolls off the tongue.
Skelemeter…
I think he’s proposing a skele-ton which is 0.01 tons, (i.e. 10kg), not a skelegram which is 10,000g. A skele-gram in this case would be 0.01g.
Well a metric tonne is based on a prefix, so a prefix to that is a double prefix. Skelemegagram to suit that situation which is the wrong way to do it.
Sure, but the joke is skele-ton
No no no no!
Skelegram is my startup that sends skeletons to people to their email address or physical address.
I thought it was a new social media platform focused on pictures of skeletons.
This is my biggest complaint about SI, kg being the base mass unit with a heckin’ prefix.
Bring back the grave 🥲
So when you’re kind of enthused about something but not, like, really psyched, you can say, “That sounds like a skeli-ton of fun.”
Skelepede
I see you.
I might pretend I didn’t. But I see you and I chuckled.
SI units are fun!
My car needs 7 liters of gas per 100 km.
7 liters / 100 km =
7 dm³ / 100 km =
0.007m³ / 100,000 m =
0.000007 m² =
0.07 mm²
The question what this area represents is left as an exercise to the reader.
Bonus trivia: The newest SI prefixes are only 2 years old:
The area of the base of a tube as long as the lenght of travel that would contain the volume of gasoline needed to travel said distance.
Go go gadget dong!
what-if.xkcd.com/11/ is relevant.
I know this is a joke, but could help myself: you can’t always just cancel units like this.
It’s more like 0.007 m^3^(fuel burned) / 100,000 m(travelled)
Can’t really cancel those.
I needed way to long to get the actual point… Geez I need to get my shit together
Hum… You mean “deca”?
1/100th of a ton = skele ton
Oh, ok. Now I understood it.
How much is a Skelemeter?
no. A skeleton is 1/100 of a ton. A decaton would be 10 tons.
A decakilogram would be 10 kg though. But fuck, that’s quite an unwieldy word.
I will use all the archaic measurement I want & you can’t stop me.
The SI base unit is actually the kilogram (despite naming), a metric tonne is actually a megagram lol.
Anyhow, if the prefix-less naming matched the base unit, 10 kg would be a “decagram”. As it is, it’s 10,000× the base of the naming system, and there’s no prefix on factors of 10 above 1000, so sadly there’s no way to name it neatly.
Edit: actually it looks the like the Greek for 10,000 is “myriad”, so it would be a myrigram. Dope!
Who’s skeleton?
*skeletonnes
Not only make more sense, it avoid errors. Imperial system don’t even make difference between mass and weight. Some confusion in the imperial system has already cost NASA several space probes. Imperial units are non linear and aleatoric values without any sense, using the measures of bodyparts of an King in the past, obsolete in science, mathematic and architecture. Used in Airlines and nautics, almost by tradition
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/api/v3/image_proxy?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.vgy.me%2FxXruEN.png">
Oh, the date thing. I hate it because it conflicts with rest of the world too 05/06/2024 causes lot of confusion since we can’t even know which system we are using. Thanks it only happens online not locally in my country
Yes, online it¡s better to write the month name to avoid confusion, because of 4 removed countries worldwide wich still use the imperial syste,
Even more annoying, because there’s a bunch of software with bad localisation where we sane DD/MM/YYYY and YYYY.MM.DD users are forced to see the abomination that is MM/DD/YYY and it leads to errors.
Speak French
Skelepede
Just “x10” with metric. With imperial, it’s usually “how many rods to a hogshead” or short tons and long tons or fathoms vs leagues.
So wait, you’re telling me that a Skele-ton would be roughly 20,000KG?