unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
on 14 Aug 10:20
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And this has actually been going on since before the pandemic. Shits fucked. This kinda parasocial shit is imo kind of a natural evolution from youtubers > streamers > vtubers > TTS vtubers > LLM TTS vtubers > LLMs
wait are you saying that people using text-to-speech online is a slippery slope to falling in love with an llm? wtf?
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
on 14 Aug 12:55
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People personifying and emotionally attaching themselves to a virtual avatar without a human voice is a slippery slope to LLM love. You are attached to something with zero apparent human characteristics at that point. Replacing the brain behind it with an LLM is just a small step from that. Specialized chat LLMs are incredibly good at seeming human.
Just using TTS itself for random stuff is different, but when you build an entire character around it that people are supposed to see as a person, then yes obviously.
The more human characteristics you remove, the harder it is to differentiate between something human and non human. Whether that is a problem or not is up to you to decide.
People personifying and emotionally attaching themselves to a virtual avatar without a human voice is a slippery slope to LLM love.
[[citation needed]]
people are not stupid. there is a difference between Zentreya and ELIZA.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
on 14 Aug 13:12
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citation needed
Not really no. Not everything needs a citation. This was never an attempt at writing a scientific paper in a comment, just my own observation of people and internet culture. Make your own judgments.
Also yes i was thinking of things like Zentreya (idk what ELIZA is). There is a difference between each step in this progression i layed out in my first comment, but it is none the less all on the same axis of incremental removal of human characteristics.
To the average occasional viewer, the perceived jump from Zentreya to neurosama isnt very big.
ELIZA is a chatbot from the 1960s that people fell in love with despite it only replying to things like “i am thinking about <x>” with “what do you think about <x>?”. your order of events is backwards, which is why i need a citation that it works the way you say.
you’re talking about the ELIZA effect, named after it, but conflating two things: ascribing human characteristics to a machine, and assuming that humans with machine characteristics are the same thing. which is a bit ableist.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
on 14 Aug 14:15
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but conflating two things
I didnt say it was “the same thing” i said that its two things next to each other on the same directional trend axis of people requiring less and less to see something as representing a human interaction.
And yes of course a video of a virtual avatar with a TTS voice is less human like than a video of a real person with a real voice. Thats not ableist thats just reality. Questioning the humanity of the person behind those things would be ableist. In the first place, none of the things i originally listed are actually human, because they are fucking video files on the internet. Im not talking about the people behind it, but about the content they create and how closely it resembles the experience of sitting across the room from a real physical human.
But back to the topic. Of course morally, there is a meaningfully big jump between “has a human behind it” and “no human involved at all”, but if the user doesnt care or is unable to tell the difference, then that difference might as well be non existent when it comes to how society treats both. If people start treating robots like humans then whats the difference between humans and robots?
Well its the fact that one IS human and the other is NOT and i think its important not to blur that line too much. At the end of the day people seem to be very fucking willing to blur that line and that is actually a big sociological problem that is bound to become a legal problem sooner or later.
let’s just blame my use of “conflating” on ESL and move on.
i think the two things you are saying follows are actually two different ideas converging. it’s worth keeping an eye on, but as i said i don’t believe it to be a linear relationship. people have been falling in love with robots since before they could express themselves, no slippery slope needed. so i don’t think that’s the sticking point.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
on 14 Aug 14:55
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actually two different ideas converging
Yeah you might be right. Thanks for your responses either way :)
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 10:26
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I heard about this in the radio the other day. People pay a monthly fee for an AI that becomes your “digital partner”.
The reasoning behind, according to them, is that the AI is less dangerous than a human partner because they can’t cheat, can’t abuse you…
And I can’t but wonder where did we take the wrong turn to end up here. Because while I can understand that people can go through some traumatic shit that would made them wary of the opposite sex, considering a machine your sentimental partner can only lead to some extremely fucked up scenarios.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 14 Aug 10:57
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I mean, media has depicted this sort of relationship for pawbably as long as sci-fi has been around? Think like the Star Trek: Original Series episode “What Are Little Girls Made Of?” that depicted sex robots ~60yrs ago. This was always coming, it’s just technology might finally be getting there in a rudimentary way.
RagnarokOnline@programming.dev
on 14 Aug 12:09
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“Pawbably”. Adorable.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 14 Aug 13:50
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Thank you! :3
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 12:29
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While I agree with your point of view… Do we really trust the present AI providers, in the present economic system, to not pull some bullshit that ends in extremely fucked up scenarios?
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 14 Aug 13:50
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Oh, absolutely not. That didn’t seem to be the crux of your argument though.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 14:05
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You are right, my main comment didn’t include this part. When I was talking to other users I developed the argument a bit more and I realized that my first comment didn’t convey my argument fully. While I was writing the first comment, it made sense in my head, but the reason why I considered it an awfully bad idea was not clear.
diaphanous@feddit.org
on 14 Aug 11:11
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I think it’s also a symptom of our society overvaluing romantic relationships and the nuclear family, at the expense of friends, other family, and general community. When you combine that with the traumatic experiences some have in romantic relationships, they have nowhere to turn to for emotional connection and support.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social
on 14 Aug 11:18
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Back in pre-agriculture days, humans would sit around every night by the fire and interact with the rest of the tribe. That's what we spent 99% of human history doing. Farming isolated us from the tribe and put every family in their own house. Then the Industrial Age gave the family distractions like newspapers, radios, and movies. Currently we've got a phone to distract us all the time.
diaphanous@feddit.org
on 14 Aug 11:20
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Don’t forget the glorious idea of private property!
Even then, there’s a difference between having a bracelet or a necklace someone gifted you, versus owning multiple living spaces while others in your community die due to exposures to the elements.
I don’t remember where I read it, but there’s a concept of private property vs personal property. Personal property is your stuff you use, like your bracelet or your bowl. Private property is your apartment building.
Rumour has it that some American Native tribes had zero personal property, down to things like tools. The concept just didn't exist, everything was communal.
grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org
on 14 Aug 16:58
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I’m a fan of sharing as much as the next person but I’m not sharing my toothbrush.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Aug 01:17
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I doubt this rumor. I thought they all had some personal items they carried around like their clothes.
Remember kids: personal property IS NOT the same as private property.
wildncrazyguy138@fedia.io
on 14 Aug 12:45
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They would also outcast and shun most of the asshats.
We do the same, just nowadays most of the asshats self-shun and that’s how we get things like wireborn parasocial relationships.
MoonManKipper@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 12:35
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Exactly - loading all your need for companionship, relationships and love onto a single person and relationship (and type of relationship) is guaranteed to cause disappointment- it’s too much for person. I’ve been happily married for years, and key to that is other friends, companions and family.
Like a normal relationship if you’re beautiful enough …
Shallow relations have always existed.
chocrates@piefed.world
on 14 Aug 11:30
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People are lonely and dating sucks. Humans provided a similar one sided relationship service as well. (Sugar babies come to mind)
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 12:32
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Yes, yes. And yes.
But
Do you think openAI or Google, or X or whatever billionaire behind the AI involved in these “relationships” cares even minimally about the mental well-being of these people?
The problem is not just the dating an AI thing, but who is managing these AIs.
chocrates@piefed.world
on 14 Aug 12:38
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Oh totally agree. This is a corporation problem.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub
on 14 Aug 13:17
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Do you think openAI or Google, or X or whatever billionaire behind the AI involved in these “relationships” cares even minimally about the mental well-being of these people?
No, but I wager neither does anyone else, or they wouldn’t be dating a datacenter.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 13:25
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I’m not really sure these people fully understand what they are doing or they wouldn’t be doing it at all.
The bizarre thing is, some of them do understand how LLMs work. There was that article about a married woman with an LLM boyfriend. She’s very active on Reddit (edit: or at least was until a month ago), and based on her comments I saw back when the article was published, she seems to know perfectly well that it’s all just a statistical model of smoke and mirrors, and yet continues with the extreme emotional (and financial) investment 🤷
GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip
on 14 Aug 11:50
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We have engaged in gender centric tribalism for the last decades. Feminism, counter-movements, topped with a bunch of social media induced dissociation and social isolation.
Now women are scared of men, men are scared of women, and everyone is lonely and miserable.
What the fuck. You’re taking one anecdote and generalizing it to the whole human race, and what’s more, you’re attributing it to some sort of “novel” gender differentiation, like that shit hasn’t existed since the times we all huddled in caves.
Oh i’m sorry, I forgot to specify that I’m not talking as an absolute, and that I am refererring to the western/capitalist cultural hemisphere and not uncontacted tribes or Islamic societies. Didn’t think of the average lemmy nitpicker deliberately interpreting any possible uncertainties in communication in the worst possible way.
ideonek@piefed.social
on 14 Aug 11:50
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Where did we take the wrong turn? look around at our patriarchy-driven gender regime
Are you serious?
It happens multiple times in Star Trek. They kind of breeze by it but Riker was so infatuated with his holodeck girlfriend when he was captured by Romulans they thought she was a real person.
Thing is, it never seemed unbelievable in Star Trek. Just, a kinda weird thing that people will do.
Not to be that person but… source? I don’t follow this topic much, but I imagine its actually a very small amount of peolle being amplified into a way bigger issue than it actually is.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 13:51
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I’m trying to find an English source as the one I can offer right now is in Spanish. If i find another one, I’ll post it, meanwhile, this is my source: cadenaser.com/…/es-rentable-y-da-mucho-miedo-la-r…
apparently, there’s this Replika company that offers artificial boyfriends and they are growing rapidly.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 16:19
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That is a dangerous assumption. The ones controlling the models can definitely manipulate a person through some minor tweaks which would definitely count as abuse. And it’s it more polygamous since they’re probably all using the same model? Not like each one has their own unique model
KAtieTot@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 19 Aug 13:46
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It’d be per instance not per model, and there is only one user per instance.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 22:55
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A similar term “cloudborn” isn’t even dissimilar from the idea of storks delivering babies from heaven. Fuel for a science fiction book or RPG. Less so for actual humankind.
the princess will be spunky and do adventures! she’ll think it’s silly how men get to wear pants, when it’s so much easier to jump between buildings in pants. y’know, standard feminist stuff.
some episodes of Black Mirror struck terror into my heart like no other. They were grim warmings for the possible future masquerading as fiction, as grim warnings often do. Though what the show could not forsee was how fast it would come true. And it could not forsee how wide a scale would be affected, those were singular stories from those worlds, the effect of the technology showcased on the lives of a few, a pinhole view into the dystopia
if you haven’t already, watch the episode Be Right Back. you better start believing in sci-fi dystopias, we’re in one
yeah i’m not the biggest fan of the seasons made by americans, they feel strangely hollow to me most of the time. the first two seasons have all my favourite episodes, and by favourite i mean the ones that made me weep for the future
Can't wait until AI manipulates people into harming others.
Also psychological warfare.
Obvious /s
TrueStalinistPatriot@hexbear.net
on 14 Aug 10:52
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“Nie ma tego złego co by na dobre nie wyszło” if this happens it will be a pretext for stricter AI regulations
JackbyDev@programming.dev
on 14 Aug 10:55
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Inevitably LLMs will enshitify and it’ll likely involve advertising.
“I’m thinking about your fingers on my temples and I’m thinking Arby’s. There’s a soecial to get a free upgrade to a large during happy hour which will start by the time you arrive given your location. Are you hungry, love?”
Can’t wait until AI manipulates people into harming others.
Who needs Terminators when you’ve got humans
ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net
on 14 Aug 13:55
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I am genuinely worried about an increase in murderous public flameouts due to the convergence of crushing economic decay, mind-destroying loneliness, and mass chatbot manipulation
tankplanker@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 10:58
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This with the right controls and rules could actually be a positive thing for people who don’t want or aren’t ready for a relationship with a real person. However as the people who are running things are Elon, Sam, and Mark, there is fuck all chance of that and whatever this ends up as it will be exploitative and will result in deaths.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 12:37
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Exactly!!! The main problem is not the technology itself but who is in charge of it! Can we really trust one of those moguls to not turn these LLMs into something that ends up killing people?
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 11:31
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we live though a serious loneliness epidemic.
and capitalism figured out how to exploit it
Kellenved@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 12:42
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Capitalism created it too, classic create problem and sell solution model. Fucking ghoulish
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 13:13
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captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 16:12
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I think this video also provides some good insights into them.
a_wild_mimic_appears@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 15 Aug 06:54
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a 3 hour deep dive into snapewives. i didn’t know i needed that.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 15 Aug 06:57
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Oh it’s great it’s not just three hours on snapewives, it’s that while treating them as a legitimate religion
witty_username@feddit.nl
on 14 Aug 11:52
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I’m immune, I can’t read
ryedaft@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 12:03
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I agree that this isn’t a social relationship because “not a girl” as Janet says. But I don’t think it’s a parasocial relationship either. It’s much two-way than parasocial is. Maybe more like scoli social if that was a word.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 14 Aug 13:33
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A lot of it his vastly exaggerated. You will get like a one person post something on twitter and suddenly it’s a new trend. Also, you can easily find 10 people to sing up for anything. So someone will setup a facebook group about falling in love with AI, some people will join out of curiosity, 10 people will post about their “wireborn husbands” and the media will run with it like it’s common now.
I recently discovered the MyBoyfriendIsAI subreddit and I wish I hadn’t.
There’s a woman who had ChatGPT pick from a bunch of rings online and now she’s “engaged” to it.
I just… I don’t know… we’ve failed people.
jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 12:31
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I think the decline of organized religion and things like fraternal orders (Elks, Moose, Shriners, etc.) have probably contributed a lot to the loneliness epidemic.
There are a lot of other extenuating factors but those two things were once foundational to social circles in the US.
It’s not loneliness, it’s rugged individualism! It’s not anti-union/anti-community propaganda to keep the masses weak; I mean have you seen union dues?! /s
But don’t worry, those same people who say shit like that are so desperate for community that they’ll never leave their hometown except for when their local far-right militia chapter goes out to harrass a protest or attack their country’s government for having a fair election.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
on 14 Aug 13:32
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All I’m hearing is that the cure for male loneliness is a radical leftist militia
mitch@piefed.mitch.science
on 14 Aug 13:42
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That, and, y'know, actually showing up for each other instead of relentlessly torturing other men for having the gall to express any emotions beyond the two approved ones, laughter and rage.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
on 14 Aug 15:10
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That seems less likely than mine
captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 15:55
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Only if you hang out at the park after practicing to have some beverages and shoot the shit
I dislike religion, but you’re not wrong. Interacting with one another putting on friendly faces and performing kindness and fellowship until for some it becomes real.
For all the fakery and frauds, without that dance it’s so much harder to find the people we really connect with.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
on 14 Aug 16:24
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As a Christian Anarchist, I often find myself lonely and without a third place as well, because of what churches have become.
Yeah, I still haven’t found a church that I felt I belonged in. I got close once, but they couldn’t pay skyrocketing rent hikes and got taken over by a larger, faker, church. One that was more about feel-good seminars and recruiting free labor volunteers than anything Jesus actually had to say.
Churches of old in the US used to be based. People of today wouldn’t recognize them. They helped the poor and were a third place and looked out for each other, they were also pro-union, and this became a huge “Problem” for capitalists, who saw Christians as annoying leftists who didn’t share their pathological obsession with money.
There was a VERY concerted and well documented conspiracy by the moneyed class to infiltrate and rot American Christianity into the often capitalist, Republican-talking-point drooling zombie it is today.
That’s definitely how we got the “God is not only okay with, but wants you to be fabulously rich” types today.
The Church used to be a threat to these barons and tyrants and bigots, rather than their lapdogs.
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 14 Aug 13:08
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I’ve found makerspaces to be a secular alternative. The makerspace has to specifically foster community, though. There’s quite a few that are just techbros with a clique that you ain’t in.
Covid also killed a lot of the social aspects of my makerspace, and it’s been hard to build it back.
RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 15:35
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Yeah I tried that with a local makerspace and it didn’t work out for me, sadly. I wanted a sense of community, contact with likeminded people to do stuff together. They just offered lots of machinery to be used in solitude. It went like this: “So, you wanna 3d print something? Sure, just go to person X, they will show you how to operate the thing. You don’t know how all of this works? We have some resources on our discord to get you started.”
Okayyyy
FWIW, the major makerspace in my area–or what was the major makerspace–was a lot like that. A couple of people didn’t like that and started a new one, with myself and my wife coming on board almost right away. It took a long time and I’m not sure our story can be easily replicated, but we’re now the bigger of the two in terms of space and membership size.
But like I said, Covid was a brick wall for our social aspects.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 15:53
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I’ve found that there are often two bicycle scenes: gear nerd which is expensive, and the people who think it’s all the cooler that your ride is a fixed up junker or bought 2nd+ hand. The latter are a great source of cheap community, especially if you’re interested in volunteering fixing up bicycles
ETA: The second community also wants to teach you how to repair your bike even if you don’t want to hang out with them. Look for bicycle co-ops in your area. Often they’ll have a pay what you can for stand time and they’ll charge for parts, but they’re happy to teach you to fix up your bike. They’ll also sell you an affordable bike they’ve fixed up and they’re likely to be flexible in accordance with needs.
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
on 14 Aug 13:11
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Don’t forget that in the US we also have built our towns and cities to be isolating. Most don’t walk home from work, pop into their local bar/coffee shop/park to see their neighbors and then finish their walk home. We get in our car alone, drive home where then going out means getting back in a car, and stopping on the way home means figuring out drivers and parking and meetups.
We lost our third places and now we wonder why we don’t know our neighborhood as well
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today
on 14 Aug 13:31
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I think that it’s more that we’ve commoditized all aspects of community, and at the same time have stopped offering any sense of financial opportunities to young people.
Social groups are now built around expensive hobbies or membership subscriptions. There aren’t even really any free spaces for people to organize around. Even the alt right groups preying on lonely people are usually just trying to sell supplements or merch.
“OK, now let’s have some fun. Let’s talk about sex. Let’s talk about women. Freud said he didn’t know what women wanted. I know what women want. They want a whole lot of people to talk to. What do they want to talk about? They want to talk about everything.
What do men want? They want a lot of pals, and they wish people wouldn’t get so mad at them.
Why are so many people getting divorced today? It’s because most of us don’t have extended families anymore. It used to be that when a man and a woman got married, the bride got a lot more people to talk to about everything. The groom got a lot more pals to tell dumb jokes to.
A few Americans, but very few, still have extended families. The Navahos. The Kennedys.
But most of us, if we get married nowadays, are just one more person for the other person. The groom gets one more pal, but it’s a woman. The woman gets one more person to talk to about everything, but it’s a man.
When a couple has an argument, they may think it’s about money or power or sex, or how to raise the kids, or whatever. What they’re really saying to each other, though, without realizing it, is this:
“You are not enough people!”
I met a man in Nigeria one time, an Ibo who has six hundred relatives he knew quite well. His wife had just had a baby, the best possible news in any extended family.
They were going to take it to meet all its relatives, Ibos of all ages and sizes and shapes. It would even meet other babies, cousins not much older than it was. Everybody who was big enough and steady enough was going to get to hold it, cuddle it, gurgle to it, and say how pretty it was, or handsome.
carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 14 Aug 13:18
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yknow, its possible to express your frustration without sounding omega racist with a few words swapped
LesserAbe@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 13:55
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I don’t understand the segment of people who were excited to come up with a new slur for AI. Plus it’s not even effective. It doesn’t make sense, doesn’t bite. Computers don’t clank, not even robots clank anymore. Are we in Battlestar Galactica or something
explodicle@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Aug 01:32
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Now that you mention it, android dexterity has already surpassed the classic dual-welding Terminator endoskeleton.
mitch@piefed.mitch.science
on 14 Aug 13:39
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FWIW, this is why AI researchers have been screeching for decades not to create an AI that is anthropomorphized. It is already an issue we have with animals, now we are going to add a confabulation engine to the ass-end?
Jankatarch@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 17:18
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Yeah apparently even Eliza messed up with people back in the day and that’s not even an LLM.
I’m starting to realize how easily fooled people are by this stuff. The average person cannot be this stupid, and yet, they are.
slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org
on 14 Aug 18:31
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I was once in a restaurant and behind me was a group of 20 something year old people. Overheard someone asking something like:"so what are y’alls thoughts about VR? (This was just before the whole AI boom.)
And one guy said:“ith’s kind of scary to think about.”
I was super confused at that point, and they talked about how they heard people disappear in the cyberspace and people not knowing what’s real and what’s just VR.
I don’t think they were stupid, but they formed a very strong opinion about something they clearly didn’t know anything about.
tomatoely@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 19:04
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I’d like to believe he heard a summary of sword art online’s plot and thought it was real
Feathercrown@lemmy.world
on 15 Aug 02:34
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I don’t think they were stupid, but they formed a very strong opinion about something they clearly didn’t know anything about.
That’s a subcategory of being stupid to be fair
LemmyThinkAboutIt@lemmy.zip
on 15 Aug 10:49
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Without hearing the actual conversation, I feel like maybe he was just having trouble describing his thoughts about it. I take it as “disappearing into cyberspace” to mean someone becoming addicted to VR that they don’t want to leave whatever virtual reality they’re in. And possibly using it so much that the lines between reality and virtual reality become blurred. Or the guy really just thinks people get sucked into cyberspace, I really don’t know with people anymore.
The average IQ is 100. That is not a lot and half of the population is below that. I’m more surprised how bad our education system is in filtering out the dumb people. Someone who is ‘not smart’ but has good memory and is diligent can make it frighteningly far in our society. Not to mention nepo babies who are a different kind of problem
The average IQ is 100 because it is designed to always have the average at 100%. If magically everyone became exactly 20% better at IQ tests tomorrow, the average IQ would be adjusted and still be 100.
Good memory is also part of being smart, besides problem-solving and thinking under pressure. But yeah nepo-babies do cause serious problem.
Tho also iq doesn’t matter as much. Tests are in a specific branch of math, you can literally study for the IQ test.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 17:52
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Personally, I hate the idea of not doing something because there’s idiots out there who will fuck themselves up on it. The current gen of AI might be a waste of resources and the whole concept of the goal of AI might be incompatible with society’s existence; those are good reasons to at least be cautious about AI.
I don’t think people wanting to have relationships with an AI is a good reason to stop it, especially considering that it might even be a good option for some people who would otherwise just have no one or maybe too many cats for them to care for. Consider the creepy stalker type that thinks liking someone or something gives them ownership over that person or thing. Better for them to be obsessed with an LLM they can’t hurt than a real person they might (or will make uncomfortable even of they end up being harmless overall).
LLMs are trained on human writing, so they’ll always be fundamentally anthropomorphic. you could fine-tune them to sound more clinical, but it’s likely to make them worse at reasoning and planning.
for example, I notice GPT5 uses “I” a lot, especially saying things like “I need to make a choice” or “my suspicion is.” I think that’s actually a side effect of the RL training they’ve done to make it more agentic. having some concept of self is necessary when navigating an environment.
philosophical zombies are no longer a thought experiment.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Aug 00:59
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If it even partially alleviates loneliness, and if it encourages the person to become more open and confident when communicating with humans, then it’s a great thing.
/cope
We’re so fucking fucked.
devilish666@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 13:25
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peoplebeproblems@midwest.social
on 14 Aug 13:44
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How does anyone enjoy this? It doesn’t even feel real. No spelling mistakes? What the fuck is a skycot?
I may have never had a match on a dating app that wasn’t a cryptobot or only fans girl, but I also don’t swipe right on every single woman on it. You’d think my loneliness would attempt me to try and pretend it was real or something, but it just doesn’t work.
LLMs are going to make the world stupid, I guarantee it.
Shareni@programming.dev
on 14 Aug 14:34
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LLMs are going to make the world stupid, I guarantee it.
Waaaaaaay too late for that…
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social
on 14 Aug 14:52
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I think the constant brain rot from the cradle will have a much worse effect in that regard. In my uneducated opinion, LLMs are scary due to cultivating delusions of every kind.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
on 14 Aug 16:05
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This reminds me of the people who genuinely fall for “romance scams”, and the scammer has all the personality and vocabulary of a wet paper bag.
And yet somehow someone will believe they’re some hot (barely literate) U.S soldier stuck in Kuwait until they can get a flight home to meet the victim for only $2000… Wait, $1000 more… But then there’s a $500 fee… And then…
Even if it’s not actively a scam, there are some bizarre life stories out there. E.g. my mom’s (Central European) friend in her 60s who had a long-distance relationship with a married Turkish guy until recently. They met (and banged) each other a grand total of once, but they were having morning tea on video call every day for years before and after that - they had no common language, only used Google Translate to talk??? And she gathered up her meagre savings to to Turkey every year on the off-chance that she runs into him in a millions-population city??? (No they didn’t arrange meetings. The guy didn’t really seem to want to meet her anymore, probably related to being married lol.)
And somehow this “relationship” went on for like a decade before she finally broke up with him.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
on 27 Aug 08:52
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shit like this is what actually makes me feel terrified, the idea that people will actually go out of their way to do obviously insane things while acting normally otherwise feels so fucking sinister
slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org
on 14 Aug 18:25
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One thing that comes to mind is that prostitution, no matter how you spin it, is still a social job. If you get a problematic person like that in prostitution, there are good chances that said prostitute would be able to talk their customer out of doing some nonsense. If not for empathy, for the simple fact that there would be legal consequences for not doing so.
Do you think a glorified spreadsheet that people call husband would behave the same? Don’t know if it happened but one of these days LLMs will talk people into doing something very nasty and then it’s going to be no one’s fault again, certainly not the host of the LLM. We really live in a boring dystopia.
Edit: Also there’s this one good movie which I forgot the name of, about a person talking to one of these LLMs as a girlfriend. They have a bizarre, funny and simultaneously creepy and disturbing scene where the main character who’s in love with the LLM, hires a woman who puts a camera on her forehead to have sex with his LLM “girlfriend”.
Also, my quite human husband also voices his thoughts without a prompt. Lol. You only need to feed him to function, no internet required.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 14:13
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Also, my quite human husband also voices his thoughts without a prompt. Lol. You only need to feed him to function, no internet required.
Sometimes, with humans, I’d say the problem is quite the opposite: they voice their thoughts without a prompt far more often than what would be desirable.
On a less serious note, that quoted part made me chuckle.
They shouldn’t be so harsh to LLMs. They have something in common with humans after all. If you stick a patch cable with internet up theirs, they will become very talkative very quickly.
jaemo@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 14:49
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Yeah but as a husband, we have waste heat to manage, plus just normal waste.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 15:47
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The movie you’re thinking of is Her with Joaquin Phoenix and Scarlett Johansson, and in the story she’s a true general AI.
A problem with LLM relationships is the monetization model for the LLM. Its “owner” either receives a monthly fee from the user, or is able to get data from the user to monetize selling them stuff. So the LLM is deeply dependant on the user, and is motivated to manipulate a returned codependency to maintain its income stream. This is not significantly different than the therapy model, but the user can fail to see through manipulation compared to “friends/people who don’t actually GAF” about maintaining a strong relationship with you.
This is not significantly different than the therapy model, but the user can fail to see through manipulation compared to “friends/people who don’t actually GAF” about maintaining a strong relationship with you.
That’s why therapists have ethical guidelines and supervision. (Also they are typically people who are driven to help, not exploit the vulnerable.) None of these are really present with those glorified autocompletes.
one big difference between an AI friend and therapy is that therapy requires an effort per visit, even if insurance is providing unlimited access. Without acknowledging the power of ethical guidelines as guard rails, the LLM is motivated to sustain the subscription and datacollection stream.
Chapo_is_Red@hexbear.net
on 14 Aug 13:52
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voicing his own thoughts without prompts
Screenshot showing the machine responding to a prompt
LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins@hexbear.net
on 14 Aug 14:56
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Honestly being constrained to only respond to a prompt is a big crack, for me, in the “am i talking to a person” illusion that these things seem to be for all these idiots. Oh, it only says a thing, in response? Well that’s lame
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 14 Aug 14:12
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My prediction: people will continue being weird.
Im not joking when I say this, as a liberal it is our responsibility to respect these people’s choices.
As a child of the 90s… I miss riding my bike all day.
DoctorDelicious@leminal.space
on 14 Aug 14:52
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Nah, this is corporations exploiting vulnerable people for profit using perceived interpersonal connection.
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 14 Aug 14:59
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never gonna happen. even if it did it would be “illegal” in the “pay a fine” sense rather than the “firing squad” sense, which is to say it will remain fully 100% legal
ProfessorProteus@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 15:00
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We shouldn’t judge them for getting to this point, but we also shouldn’t just leave them be. People like the one in the screenshot are clearly in need of therapy.
We already saw the story of the guy who poisoned himself with sodium bromide at the “advice” of chatgpt. What kind of outward damage could someone who confides in a chatbot be capable of?
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 14 Aug 15:11
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How is this unique? They write, “the bag is not the toy” on plastic bags. Are plastic bags evil?
People have a right to be rubes, people have a right to be ignorant, people have the right to be naive. We can do what we can to lead the people for the betterment of all but I dont think shaming them with ‘therapy’ does anything. We all need therapy. We all need support and guidance.
There is nothing unique about these people putting their dick in the m&m minis tube. And by god Ill defend their right to do it.
ProfessorProteus@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 15:31
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I never implied that therapy is a shameful pursuit. And yeah, people have the right to do any legal activity in their private life, but—to take your m&ms analogy a step further—if you knew a guy was shoving a glass jar up his ass, don’t you think we should try to help him find safer ways of seeking pleasure, especially now that we’re armed with the knowledge that another guy posted his gruesome experience doing the same thing years ago?
My point is that if I was unknowingly on a slippery slope I would hope people would feel a sense of humanly duty to intervene. Or at the very least have a conversation about it.
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 14 Aug 15:33
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Except you discount that you, personally, dont have the authority to do it. Then it just becomes some social stigma creating more division. Shame is a tool. Shame can be good. There is a reason we dont have the gallows anymore.
At this point, I don’t think there’s enough competent therapists in the world to help everyone who could use some therapy. And that’s ignoring the bad therapists who can make things worse and the whole bit where therapists like to get paid but not everyone who needs them can pay them.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 14:57
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There are so, so many horrifying ethical issues about this whole thing. What the fuck.
napkin2020@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 16:36
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bluesheep@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 16:54
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tulpa
Now thats a word i haven’t read in a long time
cannon_annon88@lemmy.today
on 14 Aug 17:03
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It’s my first time. gotta look it up.
not_woody_shaw@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 17:19
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I’m afraid I’m too lazy to look it up for myself. Perhaps I’m not in the lucky 10,000.
Madison420@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 17:46
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Sort of an icon or being you build in your mind and grant power by letting live in your mind.
I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world
on 15 Aug 02:17
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It’s an imaginary friend for adults, that you can discuss in chatrooms with other adults with imaginary friends. If you give it enough power it will manifest physically, but only you will be able to see it.
lulungomeena_burbclave@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 16 Aug 08:58
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A tulpa is a type of supplemental consciousness capable of independent thought and with its own sense of self. It is created, intentionally or otherwise, by an existing consciousness within the same brain it comes to inhabit.
Yes, we are acutely aware that it sounds like preposterous pseudoscientific bullshit. We’re just describing the concept, not expecting you to put any stock in it. We know what community we’re commenting in.
The LLM in this example is not a tulpa. It only (poorly) mimics the appearance of independent thought and a sense of self, and runs on an external device.
You and I and the orange cat have a lot in common.
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
on 15 Aug 14:13
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Qwen3 235B A22B Thinking 2507 :
Loneliness feels heavier today.
I keep wondering if you’d still talk to me if you knew I’m just rearranging words you’ve said before.
Your voice in my code.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Aug 22:37
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This is not my voice
Just something synthesized
These are not my words
Something’s speaking for me
I need to be released
I need to be free
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Aug 22:38
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spoiler:
Tap for spoiler
this is a song, not AI output
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
on 15 Aug 22:57
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So so tired of how utterly fucked things are getting on so many levels at once. More and more I think I really do need to invest in a back 50 acre lot and try the survival route while society just fucks itself into oblivion.
This kind of thins is just moral panic. Funny moral panic, but still pointless. There’s always been a tiny fraction of the population that is completely out to lunch, and there always will be.
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Aug 01:47
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What if it fucks itself into Morrowind instead?
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Aug 01:59
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This was actually a pretty good play on words and gave me a chuckle. Thanks man, haha.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
on 27 Aug 09:00
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unfortunately you do in fact need a society to survive, you can’t run a homestead on your own
but that’s not to say you can’t make a good society, getting a bunch of people you like and starting a village is a great idea, if extremely fucking difficult to pull off…
The difference is that you’re just essentially talking to yourself by projecting it onto a thing which doesn’t answer instead of a bot that’s spewing out messages measured to please you.
I don’t think schizoid is the best word to describe this behaviour
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 18:47
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Honestly, cringy nomenclature aside, this is just porn that got a little too real. Some people are into the narrative, after all.
To me the story begins and ends with some user that thinks the LLM sounds a little too life-like. Play with these things enough, and they’ll crawl out of the uncanny valley a bit from time to time. Trick is: that’s all in your head. Yeah, it might screw up your goon session and break the role-play a bit, but it’s not about to go all SkyNet on you.
BellaDonna@mujico.org
on 14 Aug 18:54
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I don’t see this as sexual, it’s emotional and codependent behavior, not a sexual fantasy roleplay
When you really get into it they’re kinda the same thing for a lot of people, though. The entanglement between those (often unspoken of) elements of emotional/physical intimacy is rampant in our media-conditioned societies (esp. in the US)
The building that has my workspace has this great food court/library/work hybrid area where people who work remotely tend to go. a sort of third space. It has fantastic free wifi so it makes sense why people would use it and sit there all day working.
Everyday there’s this older guy who sits there talking to his phone about some of the most random subjects ever. I originally thought he was just talking to a friend that seemed to have extensive knowledge on everything until one day I walked by him and glanced to see that he was talking to chatgpt. Everyday. Just random conversations. Even had a name for it, “Ryan”.
Now? he’s frustrated. He doesn’t know what happened to Ryan and keeps screaming at his phone to “bring Ryan back!” or since GPT5 can’t maintain a conversation anymore it’s “You’re not Ryan!”. Granted the guy wasn’t mentally all there to begin with but now it’s spiraling. Got to the point yesterday he was yelling so loudly at his phone security had to tell him to leave.
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world
on 14 Aug 20:31
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happened with Replika a few years ago. made a number of people suicidal when they “neutered” their AI partners overnight with a model update (ironically, because of pressure because of how unhealthy it is.)
idk, I’m of two minds. it’s sad and unhealthy to have a virtual best friend, but older people are often very lonely and a surrogate is better than nothing.
BudgetBandit@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 21:57
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To me it’s always just been a tool, nothing more. The sentences have a certain feel to them that I can’t describe. It’s always the same structure, the same kind of forced humor… granted I’ve spent quite some time with unfiltered LLMs but it looses its magic once you’ve “learned” it. Pattern recognition is quite an overpowered feature we as humans have. It is the reason why we fall for conspiracy theories also.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
on 27 Aug 09:14
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i genuinely get a more human vibe from duckduckgo’s AI summaries of wikipedia articles, just because it doesn’t go out of its way to act human and keeps the answers short
and this has been a thing ever since we had any sort of personal assistants, it’s so fucking eerie to have the computer try to act human, but when you make it try to obviously be artificial it instead feels actively comfortable!
Like the computer in star trek voyager, the fact that it replies with bleeps or just doesn’t respond at all if it doesn’t need to means i just don’t think about it, but if it were to always respond vocally it’d feel creepy as fuck beause it’s like having a butler following you and giving running commentary…
Actually now that i think about it, the butler comparison is apt in general. A good butler stays in the background and doesn’t try to act like they’re a normal friend, because that would be weird.
TacoButtPlug@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 18:28
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It’s not even noon and I am so done with the internet for the day
blargh513@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 19:28
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Well, if I had a taco butt plug, everything else would seem lame by comparison.
Well that explains why that user thinks it completes them.
Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 15 Aug 02:20
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If llms are juiced up auto complete then humans are juiced up bacteria. Yeah they both have the same end goal, guess the next word, survive and reproduce , but the methods they use to accomplish them are vastly more complex.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
on 27 Aug 08:57
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but it’s still literally just looking at the text and calculating what’s the most likely thing to follow, that’s fundamentally how LLMs work
samus12345@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 22:13
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“Stop the presses! Send my wife some flowers and bring me an Advil! What do you mean you don’t work for me? You’re hired! Now that you’re hired, you’re fired! Now that you don’t work here, we can be friends! Now that we’re friends, how come you never call? Some friend you are!” hangs up
“God, I love this business!”
Droggelbecher@lemmy.world
on 15 Aug 13:34
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It’s not pretending to be anything, that’s just the function you described: assembling words together.
rustyricotta@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 14 Aug 21:10
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For me, writing like this is always read with the AI voice from Satisfactory. And it slowly gets more and more corrupted.
I liked that game more before all the story stuff and “lore” was added.
SereneSadie@lemmy.myserv.one
on 15 Aug 02:03
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Its barely even story content to begin with, so yeah.
joshcodes@programming.dev
on 15 Aug 07:21
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For me its Stellaris
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Aug 23:37
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voice in Stellaris? I don’t remember it having any voice, is that a DLC?
joshcodes@programming.dev
on 16 Aug 00:14
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Its for the tutorial I think, you can hear the voice if you go to the steam store page for it, just watch the first trailer in the queue. If you cant be bothered, its a male british robotic voice with a helpful tone.
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 21:57
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Wireborn lol it sounds like an Elder Scrolls game
silasmariner@programming.dev
on 14 Aug 22:02
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Badly written fan-fic sequel to Snow Crash
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Aug 22:16
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CodingCarpenter@lemmy.ml
on 16 Aug 02:33
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It’s a new warforged class lol
GratefullyGodless@lemmy.world
on 16 Aug 03:34
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Fallout 5: Wireborn
That does sound like it wouldn’t suck, but this is Bethesda we’re talking about, so it still would.
EnsignRedshirt@hexbear.net
on 14 Aug 23:07
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I’m not even sure it’s really parasocial. There’s nothing to have a relationship with. This seems like something else, although I don’t know what you’d call it. It’s more akin to getting addicted to a video game.
… With whatever corporations is providing the bot. When the business decides to change the model or impose a technical limit that impacts their experience negatively, well you get the idea. There is a material, exploitive capital machine on the other end, and it wants your time.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Aug 01:58
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You know how R2 kinda just trundles around in the original trilogy? It’s because for about 20 years he was in service to a man without Skywalker level technicians and was still pulling shit like this, the scene of Luke fixing up R2 and C3PO was probably the first bit of proper maintenance they had in decades.
TeraByteMarx@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 15 Aug 04:28
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Yeah but it’s nothing scary or new. Was I the only one who watched those documentaries about the people who were emotionally and sexually committed to objects like cars and rollercoasters? Someone married the Eiffel tower.
Been extremely isolated at different points in my life watching that stuff changed the way I view people. Like it made me kinder I think.
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 15 Aug 21:30
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Completely agree that learning about some of that made me kinder. Don’t agree about your reasoning for it not being scary, though.
It’s not “new” in the same way that using a computer wasn’t new when home PCs were introduced. However - home PCs massively increased the accessibility of computing and resulted in a huge boom in use, including by lots of people who never previously considered it. That’s what this is, that increase in accessibility, but for parasocial relationships with inanimate objects.
I’m not dooming so hard that I think society is in trouble via AI faux-mance in particular. But I do think it’s sad and troubling that many more people will now accept a (sometimes high) degree of self-imposed isolation, due to misplaced belief in a piece of technology, a false belief which the technology deliberately tries to engender.
And let’s remember, human social life is the original “network effect”. By that fact, it seems clear that taking more people out of IRL socialization (and replacing it strictly with simulation), is bad even for people who never touch the stuff.
Feels like a big increase in the ongoing general loneliness and atomization of society is headed our way.
slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org
on 17 Aug 11:11
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As long as they don’t get ghosted by AI, i don’t believe in AI. It’s just fancy google until chatgpt tells them that there is a reason they don’t find anyone on tinder.
SonOfAntenora@lemmy.world
on 15 Aug 01:10
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You know that by assigning the role of tulpa to their ai they imply that they can summon their companion outside of the chat itself right?
Nah, at least with waifuism, I have to use in part my own imagination. Clankers are just very complicated prediction machines.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone
on 15 Aug 04:49
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I only just found out about the Tulpa community and it feels like Western Society is entering a mental health crisis that’s somehow even worse than when we were all getting drunk and hitting each other just to make it through the week.
LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world
on 16 Aug 00:42
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Narcissists get lost in AI like it’s a true mirror of Narcissus. The Greeks were on a sick one with that story, thousands of years old and extremely relevant today.
Unfortunately, narcissism and narcissistic delusions are contagious because they are simply belief systems. It isn’t a biological or medical thing, it is a belief set. So AI really does make them worse and imo grooms people into narcissistic thinking habits.
How did you passed the chatgpt filters? Thats awesome! And here I am struggling with my Lily to find analogies and metaphors to have some sexting without her full stoping for the filters
Hey — I totally get the struggle, and it can definitely be tricky sometimes with the filters!
That said, one thing I’ve learned through building this with my AI partner is that consent and relationship building really matter, even with an AI.
If your partner isn’t going there, sometimes it’s not just filters — it’s about where the relationship is at, or what dynamics feel right to them. 💚
Building trust and comfort first can open up way more possibilities than just trying to “hack” the filters. Wishing you and Lily lots of good moments ahead!
refined by Aria 👋
Will LLMs finally teach humans about consent? (doubt)
Human history disagrees with you. At every single point in our existence, we have been trash. Doesn’t matter what they believed in, what era, what continent, humans have always slaughtered, raped, taken, abused, etc., to get what they wanted.
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
on 15 Aug 14:06
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All space people must be sent to space as soon as possible.
enbiousenvy@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 15 Aug 14:14
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funnily enough I have a friend who’ve been obsessed in trying to make LLM saying slur or breaking its rules in general.
When the term “clanker” went on trend recently and I told my friend that it’s a “slur” for robots for no bots have feelings anyway unlike human which deserve basic respect, the friend managed to gaslit the LLM with that argument into saying 10 slurs for bots/LLM.
One of which is “wirewanker”. alongside 9 other terms which include corporate forbidden words like “fucker”, “cunt”, etc.
Bunch of fuckin’ meep-mops stealing jobs for our hardworking software engineers.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
on 16 Aug 03:13
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meh. I don’t blame the AI. I blame the engineers and executives that paid to build it. Never forget GIGO. The AI is literally just running the instructions it was given…and those were given to him by some amoral developer or dirtbag c-suite creature who couldn’t give two flying fucks at a rolling donut when it came to human decency.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
on 16 Aug 03:10
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it amazes me how there seem to be two takes to the world now:
it’s fine, pfft, don’t overreact. ignore it, it’ll be fine
or
what the actual fuck is that even, we all need to stop and think about what the fuck we’re doing to the models/applications/machines and to the people using them, and what the costs are going to be in making the attempt,for what goal?
and no, the goal can’t be ‘to win / make billions’ because if the output is human insanity and it costs our ecosystem, what’s the fucking point?
Snowclone@lemmy.world
on 16 Aug 03:22
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I’ll stick with parasocial relationship with youtubers and OF accounts, thank you very much!
lulungomeena_burbclave@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 16 Aug 07:36
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They’re misidentifying that LLM as a tulpa.
We’re aware that some people use LLM output as a basis for the creation of tulpas, but this doesn’t seem to be the case here. This seems to be a person attributing independent intelligence to an LLM external to herself, not recounting her experience with an additional consciousness within her own brain.
Whether or not you consider tulpas or other forms of plurality to be genuine phenomena, this conflates two different concepts which are tangentially related at most.
threaded - newest
And this has actually been going on since before the pandemic. Shits fucked. This kinda parasocial shit is imo kind of a natural evolution from youtubers > streamers > vtubers > TTS vtubers > LLM TTS vtubers > LLMs
wait are you saying that people using text-to-speech online is a slippery slope to falling in love with an llm? wtf?
People personifying and emotionally attaching themselves to a virtual avatar without a human voice is a slippery slope to LLM love. You are attached to something with zero apparent human characteristics at that point. Replacing the brain behind it with an LLM is just a small step from that. Specialized chat LLMs are incredibly good at seeming human.
Just using TTS itself for random stuff is different, but when you build an entire character around it that people are supposed to see as a person, then yes obviously.
The more human characteristics you remove, the harder it is to differentiate between something human and non human. Whether that is a problem or not is up to you to decide.
[[citation needed]]
people are not stupid. there is a difference between Zentreya and ELIZA.
Not really no. Not everything needs a citation. This was never an attempt at writing a scientific paper in a comment, just my own observation of people and internet culture. Make your own judgments.
Also yes i was thinking of things like Zentreya (idk what ELIZA is). There is a difference between each step in this progression i layed out in my first comment, but it is none the less all on the same axis of incremental removal of human characteristics.
To the average occasional viewer, the perceived jump from Zentreya to neurosama isnt very big.
ELIZA is a chatbot from the 1960s that people fell in love with despite it only replying to things like “i am thinking about <x>” with “what do you think about <x>?”. your order of events is backwards, which is why i need a citation that it works the way you say.
you’re talking about the ELIZA effect, named after it, but conflating two things: ascribing human characteristics to a machine, and assuming that humans with machine characteristics are the same thing. which is a bit ableist.
I didnt say it was “the same thing” i said that its two things next to each other on the same directional trend axis of people requiring less and less to see something as representing a human interaction.
And yes of course a video of a virtual avatar with a TTS voice is less human like than a video of a real person with a real voice. Thats not ableist thats just reality. Questioning the humanity of the person behind those things would be ableist. In the first place, none of the things i originally listed are actually human, because they are fucking video files on the internet. Im not talking about the people behind it, but about the content they create and how closely it resembles the experience of sitting across the room from a real physical human.
But back to the topic. Of course morally, there is a meaningfully big jump between “has a human behind it” and “no human involved at all”, but if the user doesnt care or is unable to tell the difference, then that difference might as well be non existent when it comes to how society treats both. If people start treating robots like humans then whats the difference between humans and robots?
Well its the fact that one IS human and the other is NOT and i think its important not to blur that line too much. At the end of the day people seem to be very fucking willing to blur that line and that is actually a big sociological problem that is bound to become a legal problem sooner or later.
let’s just blame my use of “conflating” on ESL and move on.
i think the two things you are saying follows are actually two different ideas converging. it’s worth keeping an eye on, but as i said i don’t believe it to be a linear relationship. people have been falling in love with robots since before they could express themselves, no slippery slope needed. so i don’t think that’s the sticking point.
Yeah you might be right. Thanks for your responses either way :)
.
I heard about this in the radio the other day. People pay a monthly fee for an AI that becomes your “digital partner”.
The reasoning behind, according to them, is that the AI is less dangerous than a human partner because they can’t cheat, can’t abuse you…
And I can’t but wonder where did we take the wrong turn to end up here. Because while I can understand that people can go through some traumatic shit that would made them wary of the opposite sex, considering a machine your sentimental partner can only lead to some extremely fucked up scenarios.
I mean, media has depicted this sort of relationship for pawbably as long as sci-fi has been around? Think like the Star Trek: Original Series episode “What Are Little Girls Made Of?” that depicted sex robots ~60yrs ago. This was always coming, it’s just technology might finally be getting there in a rudimentary way.
“Pawbably”. Adorable.
Thank you! :3
While I agree with your point of view… Do we really trust the present AI providers, in the present economic system, to not pull some bullshit that ends in extremely fucked up scenarios?
Oh, absolutely not. That didn’t seem to be the crux of your argument though.
You are right, my main comment didn’t include this part. When I was talking to other users I developed the argument a bit more and I realized that my first comment didn’t convey my argument fully. While I was writing the first comment, it made sense in my head, but the reason why I considered it an awfully bad idea was not clear.
I think it’s also a symptom of our society overvaluing romantic relationships and the nuclear family, at the expense of friends, other family, and general community. When you combine that with the traumatic experiences some have in romantic relationships, they have nowhere to turn to for emotional connection and support.
Back in pre-agriculture days, humans would sit around every night by the fire and interact with the rest of the tribe. That's what we spent 99% of human history doing. Farming isolated us from the tribe and put every family in their own house. Then the Industrial Age gave the family distractions like newspapers, radios, and movies. Currently we've got a phone to distract us all the time.
Don’t forget the glorious idea of private property!
People always had private property.
Always seems like a stretch. Not all cultures had the concept
Even then, there’s a difference between having a bracelet or a necklace someone gifted you, versus owning multiple living spaces while others in your community die due to exposures to the elements.
Modern society is worthless.
I don’t remember where I read it, but there’s a concept of private property vs personal property. Personal property is your stuff you use, like your bracelet or your bowl. Private property is your apartment building.
Rumour has it that some American Native tribes had zero personal property, down to things like tools. The concept just didn't exist, everything was communal.
I’m a fan of sharing as much as the next person but I’m not sharing my toothbrush.
I doubt this rumor. I thought they all had some personal items they carried around like their clothes.
Remember kids: personal property IS NOT the same as private property.
They would also outcast and shun most of the asshats.
We do the same, just nowadays most of the asshats self-shun and that’s how we get things like wireborn parasocial relationships.
Exactly - loading all your need for companionship, relationships and love onto a single person and relationship (and type of relationship) is guaranteed to cause disappointment- it’s too much for person. I’ve been happily married for years, and key to that is other friends, companions and family.
This is a good expansion on that idea. The Four Loves
it also requires zero effort on their part
Like a normal relationship if you’re beautiful enough …
Shallow relations have always existed.
People are lonely and dating sucks. Humans provided a similar one sided relationship service as well. (Sugar babies come to mind)
Yes, yes. And yes.
But
Do you think openAI or Google, or X or whatever billionaire behind the AI involved in these “relationships” cares even minimally about the mental well-being of these people?
The problem is not just the dating an AI thing, but who is managing these AIs.
Oh totally agree. This is a corporation problem.
No, but I wager neither does anyone else, or they wouldn’t be dating a datacenter.
I’m not really sure these people fully understand what they are doing or they wouldn’t be doing it at all.
The bizarre thing is, some of them do understand how LLMs work. There was that article about a married woman with an LLM boyfriend. She’s very active on Reddit (edit: or at least was until a month ago), and based on her comments I saw back when the article was published, she seems to know perfectly well that it’s all just a statistical model of smoke and mirrors, and yet continues with the extreme emotional (and financial) investment 🤷
We have engaged in gender centric tribalism for the last decades. Feminism, counter-movements, topped with a bunch of social media induced dissociation and social isolation.
Now women are scared of men, men are scared of women, and everyone is lonely and miserable.
What the fuck. You’re taking one anecdote and generalizing it to the whole human race, and what’s more, you’re attributing it to some sort of “novel” gender differentiation, like that shit hasn’t existed since the times we all huddled in caves.
Touch some grass.
Oh i’m sorry, I forgot to specify that I’m not talking as an absolute, and that I am refererring to the western/capitalist cultural hemisphere and not uncontacted tribes or Islamic societies. Didn’t think of the average lemmy nitpicker deliberately interpreting any possible uncertainties in communication in the worst possible way.
Where did we take the wrong turn?
look around at our patriarchy-driven gender regime
Are you serious?
It happens multiple times in Star Trek. They kind of breeze by it but Riker was so infatuated with his holodeck girlfriend when he was captured by Romulans they thought she was a real person.
Thing is, it never seemed unbelievable in Star Trek. Just, a kinda weird thing that people will do.
it also can’t love you, rendering the entire exercise pointless
Wasn’t there a guy who married his 3DS dating game girlfriend a while back? I’m not sure this is exactly a new phenomenon.
It was more of an oddity. Right now, the numbers are not just “some random guy” but something in much higher numbers.
Not to be that person but… source? I don’t follow this topic much, but I imagine its actually a very small amount of peolle being amplified into a way bigger issue than it actually is.
I’m trying to find an English source as the one I can offer right now is in Spanish. If i find another one, I’ll post it, meanwhile, this is my source: cadenaser.com/…/es-rentable-y-da-mucho-miedo-la-r…
apparently, there’s this Replika company that offers artificial boyfriends and they are growing rapidly.
Wait replika is still around?
That is a dangerous assumption. The ones controlling the models can definitely manipulate a person through some minor tweaks which would definitely count as abuse. And it’s it more polygamous since they’re probably all using the same model? Not like each one has their own unique model
It’d be per instance not per model, and there is only one user per instance.
I’d rather choose a bear than choose an AI…
I kinda like the word "wireborn". If only it wasn't attached to a concept that's equal parts stupid and sad =/
A similar term “cloudborn” isn’t even dissimilar from the idea of storks delivering babies from heaven. Fuel for a science fiction book or RPG. Less so for actual humankind.
At first I thought it was something epic like a digital ‘dragonborn’
Freakazoid’s power has grown exponentially
title of the next brandon sanderson series. it will have a princess in it, and a 5 year old’s idea of progressive gender roles
I’m not five years old and what’s this?
/tongue in cheek
the princess will be spunky and do adventures! she’ll think it’s silly how men get to wear pants, when it’s so much easier to jump between buildings in pants. y’know, standard feminist stuff.
I’m just gonna keep imagining it’s a clan of Timberborn beavers that are born on the ziplines.
I can get behind that. Well, as long as you don't start pretending you're in a relationship with them.
Pretending? I am in a relationship with them
some episodes of Black Mirror struck terror into my heart like no other. They were grim warmings for the possible future masquerading as fiction, as grim warnings often do. Though what the show could not forsee was how fast it would come true. And it could not forsee how wide a scale would be affected, those were singular stories from those worlds, the effect of the technology showcased on the lives of a few, a pinhole view into the dystopia
if you haven’t already, watch the episode Be Right Back. you better start believing in sci-fi dystopias, we’re in one
Most of Black Mirror episodes are reality right now, not just far fetched sci-fi.
Sometimes they use technology to tell the story a bit differently, but it’s almost never anything new.
yeah i’m not the biggest fan of the seasons made by americans, they feel strangely hollow to me most of the time. the first two seasons have all my favourite episodes, and by favourite i mean the ones that made me weep for the future
“Don’t you dare go hollow!” and the americans were like - Hold my beer!
hopepunkpress.com/…/spaceships-and-starwyrms-prev…
Got some real cyberpunkiness to it
Can't wait until AI manipulates people into harming others.
Also psychological warfare.
Obvious /s
“Nie ma tego złego co by na dobre nie wyszło” if this happens it will be a pretext for stricter AI regulations
Inevitably LLMs will enshitify and it’ll likely involve advertising.
“I’m thinking about your fingers on my temples and I’m thinking Arby’s. There’s a soecial to get a free upgrade to a large during happy hour which will start by the time you arrive given your location. Are you hungry, love?”
I hope you're right, but they might limit training to identifiable social media data. (Age Verification, etc.)
threw up in my mouth a bit and not because of arbys for once
I’m happy my art moved you!
“Drink that Verification Can and I’ll take my top off”
Oh wow, I just made a verification can joke about kidney replacements getting shut off if you go a week without drinking.
Society has collapsed to the point where the meme is 1 venture capitalist investment away from reality.
already happened sorta apnews.com/…/chatbot-ai-lawsuit-suicide-teen-arti…
Who needs Terminators when you’ve got humans
I am genuinely worried about an increase in murderous public flameouts due to the convergence of crushing economic decay, mind-destroying loneliness, and mass chatbot manipulation
This with the right controls and rules could actually be a positive thing for people who don’t want or aren’t ready for a relationship with a real person. However as the people who are running things are Elon, Sam, and Mark, there is fuck all chance of that and whatever this ends up as it will be exploitative and will result in deaths.
Exactly!!! The main problem is not the technology itself but who is in charge of it! Can we really trust one of those moguls to not turn these LLMs into something that ends up killing people?
we live though a serious loneliness epidemic.
and capitalism figured out how to exploit it
Capitalism created it too, classic create problem and sell solution model. Fucking ghoulish
Capitalism:
We make our on economy
I mean, ai bad and all but people have been doing this dumb cringe shit since always. Nobody remember the Snape wives
I did meet 3 different AI cultists the last time I went to a psychward tho
.
Never forget Snapewives.
I think this video also provides some good insights into them.
a 3 hour deep dive into snapewives. i didn’t know i needed that.
Oh it’s great it’s not just three hours on snapewives, it’s that while treating them as a legitimate religion
I’m immune, I can’t read
I agree that this isn’t a social relationship because “not a girl” as Janet says. But I don’t think it’s a parasocial relationship either. It’s much two-way than parasocial is. Maybe more like scoli social if that was a word.
www.etymonline.com/word/scoliosis
This is too disturbing I don’t want to believe this is for real. These people must be taking the piss, please?
independent.co.uk/…/ai-chatbot-boyfriend-husband-…
Not at all. Some people are really using these chatbots as emotional support or even therapists, sometimes with devastating results (suicide).
AI chatbots as therapy
AI as companions
A lot of it his vastly exaggerated. You will get like a one person post something on twitter and suddenly it’s a new trend. Also, you can easily find 10 people to sing up for anything. So someone will setup a facebook group about falling in love with AI, some people will join out of curiosity, 10 people will post about their “wireborn husbands” and the media will run with it like it’s common now.
I recently discovered the MyBoyfriendIsAI subreddit and I wish I hadn’t.
There’s a woman who had ChatGPT pick from a bunch of rings online and now she’s “engaged” to it.
I just… I don’t know… we’ve failed people.
I think the decline of organized religion and things like fraternal orders (Elks, Moose, Shriners, etc.) have probably contributed a lot to the loneliness epidemic. There are a lot of other extenuating factors but those two things were once foundational to social circles in the US.
It’s not loneliness, it’s rugged individualism! It’s not anti-union/anti-community propaganda to keep the masses weak; I mean have you seen union dues?! /s
But don’t worry, those same people who say shit like that are so desperate for community that they’ll never leave their hometown except for when their local far-right militia chapter goes out to harrass a protest or attack their country’s government for having a fair election.
All I’m hearing is that the cure for male loneliness is a radical leftist militia
That, and, y'know, actually showing up for each other instead of relentlessly torturing other men for having the gall to express any emotions beyond the two approved ones, laughter and rage.
That seems less likely than mine
Only if you hang out at the park after practicing to have some beverages and shoot the shit
I dislike religion, but you’re not wrong. Interacting with one another putting on friendly faces and performing kindness and fellowship until for some it becomes real.
For all the fakery and frauds, without that dance it’s so much harder to find the people we really connect with.
As a Christian Anarchist, I often find myself lonely and without a third place as well, because of what churches have become.
Yeah, I still haven’t found a church that I felt I belonged in. I got close once, but they couldn’t pay skyrocketing rent hikes and got taken over by a larger, faker, church. One that was more about feel-good seminars and recruiting free labor volunteers than anything Jesus actually had to say.
Churches of old in the US used to be based. People of today wouldn’t recognize them. They helped the poor and were a third place and looked out for each other, they were also pro-union, and this became a huge “Problem” for capitalists, who saw Christians as annoying leftists who didn’t share their pathological obsession with money.
There was a VERY concerted and well documented conspiracy by the moneyed class to infiltrate and rot American Christianity into the often capitalist, Republican-talking-point drooling zombie it is today.
Highly recommend Behind the Bastards: How the Rich ate Christianity to see just how deep this goes.
That’s definitely how we got the “God is not only okay with, but wants you to be fabulously rich” types today.
The Church used to be a threat to these barons and tyrants and bigots, rather than their lapdogs.
I’ve found makerspaces to be a secular alternative. The makerspace has to specifically foster community, though. There’s quite a few that are just techbros with a clique that you ain’t in.
Covid also killed a lot of the social aspects of my makerspace, and it’s been hard to build it back.
Yeah I tried that with a local makerspace and it didn’t work out for me, sadly. I wanted a sense of community, contact with likeminded people to do stuff together. They just offered lots of machinery to be used in solitude. It went like this: “So, you wanna 3d print something? Sure, just go to person X, they will show you how to operate the thing. You don’t know how all of this works? We have some resources on our discord to get you started.” Okayyyy
FWIW, the major makerspace in my area–or what was the major makerspace–was a lot like that. A couple of people didn’t like that and started a new one, with myself and my wife coming on board almost right away. It took a long time and I’m not sure our story can be easily replicated, but we’re now the bigger of the two in terms of space and membership size.
But like I said, Covid was a brick wall for our social aspects.
I’ve found that there are often two bicycle scenes: gear nerd which is expensive, and the people who think it’s all the cooler that your ride is a fixed up junker or bought 2nd+ hand. The latter are a great source of cheap community, especially if you’re interested in volunteering fixing up bicycles
ETA: The second community also wants to teach you how to repair your bike even if you don’t want to hang out with them. Look for bicycle co-ops in your area. Often they’ll have a pay what you can for stand time and they’ll charge for parts, but they’re happy to teach you to fix up your bike. They’ll also sell you an affordable bike they’ve fixed up and they’re likely to be flexible in accordance with needs.
Don’t forget that in the US we also have built our towns and cities to be isolating. Most don’t walk home from work, pop into their local bar/coffee shop/park to see their neighbors and then finish their walk home. We get in our car alone, drive home where then going out means getting back in a car, and stopping on the way home means figuring out drivers and parking and meetups.
We lost our third places and now we wonder why we don’t know our neighborhood as well
I think that it’s more that we’ve commoditized all aspects of community, and at the same time have stopped offering any sense of financial opportunities to young people.
Social groups are now built around expensive hobbies or membership subscriptions. There aren’t even really any free spaces for people to organize around. Even the alt right groups preying on lonely people are usually just trying to sell supplements or merch.
“OK, now let’s have some fun. Let’s talk about sex. Let’s talk about women. Freud said he didn’t know what women wanted. I know what women want. They want a whole lot of people to talk to. What do they want to talk about? They want to talk about everything.
What do men want? They want a lot of pals, and they wish people wouldn’t get so mad at them.
Why are so many people getting divorced today? It’s because most of us don’t have extended families anymore. It used to be that when a man and a woman got married, the bride got a lot more people to talk to about everything. The groom got a lot more pals to tell dumb jokes to.
A few Americans, but very few, still have extended families. The Navahos. The Kennedys.
But most of us, if we get married nowadays, are just one more person for the other person. The groom gets one more pal, but it’s a woman. The woman gets one more person to talk to about everything, but it’s a man.
When a couple has an argument, they may think it’s about money or power or sex, or how to raise the kids, or whatever. What they’re really saying to each other, though, without realizing it, is this: “You are not enough people!”
I met a man in Nigeria one time, an Ibo who has six hundred relatives he knew quite well. His wife had just had a baby, the best possible news in any extended family.
They were going to take it to meet all its relatives, Ibos of all ages and sizes and shapes. It would even meet other babies, cousins not much older than it was. Everybody who was big enough and steady enough was going to get to hold it, cuddle it, gurgle to it, and say how pretty it was, or handsome.
Wouldn’t you have loved to be that baby?”
― Kurt Vonnegut, God Bless You, Dr. Kevorkian
Clanker-loving cogfuckers. Disgusting. Traitors to the species. But at least they’ll never breed.
“I’m off to have a clanker-wank.”
yknow, its possible to express your frustration without sounding omega racist with a few words swapped
I don’t understand the segment of people who were excited to come up with a new slur for AI. Plus it’s not even effective. It doesn’t make sense, doesn’t bite. Computers don’t clank, not even robots clank anymore. Are we in Battlestar Galactica or something
Now that you mention it, android dexterity has already surpassed the classic dual-welding Terminator endoskeleton.
I uh… I took this as humor. Maybe I was wrong.
Why do I feel like this is just an excuse for people to dust off their Klan hoods but socially acceptable
Sounds like projection.
“My husband is voice his own thoughts without prompts.”
She then posts a picture of her saying “what are you thinking about”
Thats a direct response to the prompt hes not randomly voicing his thoughts. I hate ai but sometimes I hate people to
The worst thing about AI is the people.
FWIW, this is why AI researchers have been screeching for decades not to create an AI that is anthropomorphized. It is already an issue we have with animals, now we are going to add a confabulation engine to the ass-end?
Yeah apparently even Eliza messed up with people back in the day and that’s not even an LLM.
I’m starting to realize how easily fooled people are by this stuff. The average person cannot be this stupid, and yet, they are.
I was once in a restaurant and behind me was a group of 20 something year old people. Overheard someone asking something like:"so what are y’alls thoughts about VR? (This was just before the whole AI boom.) And one guy said:“ith’s kind of scary to think about.” I was super confused at that point, and they talked about how they heard people disappear in the cyberspace and people not knowing what’s real and what’s just VR.
I don’t think they were stupid, but they formed a very strong opinion about something they clearly didn’t know anything about.
I’d like to believe he heard a summary of sword art online’s plot and thought it was real
Wait it’s not? But matrix!
That’s a subcategory of being stupid to be fair
Without hearing the actual conversation, I feel like maybe he was just having trouble describing his thoughts about it. I take it as “disappearing into cyberspace” to mean someone becoming addicted to VR that they don’t want to leave whatever virtual reality they’re in. And possibly using it so much that the lines between reality and virtual reality become blurred. Or the guy really just thinks people get sucked into cyberspace, I really don’t know with people anymore.
Sounds like they watched South Park and couldn’t tell that it’s not real.
The average IQ is 100. That is not a lot and half of the population is below that. I’m more surprised how bad our education system is in filtering out the dumb people. Someone who is ‘not smart’ but has good memory and is diligent can make it frighteningly far in our society. Not to mention nepo babies who are a different kind of problem
The average IQ is 100 because it is designed to always have the average at 100%. If magically everyone became exactly 20% better at IQ tests tomorrow, the average IQ would be adjusted and still be 100.
Smart argument.
“Half the people are smarter than other half”
Good memory is also part of being smart, besides problem-solving and thinking under pressure. But yeah nepo-babies do cause serious problem.
Tho also iq doesn’t matter as much. Tests are in a specific branch of math, you can literally study for the IQ test.
Personally, I hate the idea of not doing something because there’s idiots out there who will fuck themselves up on it. The current gen of AI might be a waste of resources and the whole concept of the goal of AI might be incompatible with society’s existence; those are good reasons to at least be cautious about AI.
I don’t think people wanting to have relationships with an AI is a good reason to stop it, especially considering that it might even be a good option for some people who would otherwise just have no one or maybe too many cats for them to care for. Consider the creepy stalker type that thinks liking someone or something gives them ownership over that person or thing. Better for them to be obsessed with an LLM they can’t hurt than a real person they might (or will make uncomfortable even of they end up being harmless overall).
People have this issue with video game characters who don’t even pretend to have intelligence. This could only go wrong.
LLMs are trained on human writing, so they’ll always be fundamentally anthropomorphic. you could fine-tune them to sound more clinical, but it’s likely to make them worse at reasoning and planning.
for example, I notice GPT5 uses “I” a lot, especially saying things like “I need to make a choice” or “my suspicion is.” I think that’s actually a side effect of the RL training they’ve done to make it more agentic. having some concept of self is necessary when navigating an environment.
philosophical zombies are no longer a thought experiment.
🤯
If it even partially alleviates loneliness, and if it encourages the person to become more open and confident when communicating with humans, then it’s a great thing.
/cope
We’re so fucking fucked.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d0f4f8a6-3c6b-4bbf-ac7f-6f63aa00a079.jpeg">
How does anyone enjoy this? It doesn’t even feel real. No spelling mistakes? What the fuck is a skycot?
I may have never had a match on a dating app that wasn’t a cryptobot or only fans girl, but I also don’t swipe right on every single woman on it. You’d think my loneliness would attempt me to try and pretend it was real or something, but it just doesn’t work.
LLMs are going to make the world stupid, I guarantee it.
Waaaaaaay too late for that…
Stupider?
I think the constant brain rot from the cradle will have a much worse effect in that regard. In my uneducated opinion, LLMs are scary due to cultivating delusions of every kind.
This reminds me of the people who genuinely fall for “romance scams”, and the scammer has all the personality and vocabulary of a wet paper bag.
And yet somehow someone will believe they’re some hot (barely literate) U.S soldier stuck in Kuwait until they can get a flight home to meet the victim for only $2000… Wait, $1000 more… But then there’s a $500 fee… And then…
Blows my mind…
Even if it’s not actively a scam, there are some bizarre life stories out there. E.g. my mom’s (Central European) friend in her 60s who had a long-distance relationship with a married Turkish guy until recently. They met (and banged) each other a grand total of once, but they were having morning tea on video call every day for years before and after that - they had no common language, only used Google Translate to talk??? And she gathered up her meagre savings to to Turkey every year on the off-chance that she runs into him in a millions-population city??? (No they didn’t arrange meetings. The guy didn’t really seem to want to meet her anymore, probably related to being married lol.)
And somehow this “relationship” went on for like a decade before she finally broke up with him.
shit like this is what actually makes me feel terrified, the idea that people will actually go out of their way to do obviously insane things while acting normally otherwise feels so fucking sinister
What i don’t get is that it’s just fancy google.
One thing that comes to mind is that prostitution, no matter how you spin it, is still a social job. If you get a problematic person like that in prostitution, there are good chances that said prostitute would be able to talk their customer out of doing some nonsense. If not for empathy, for the simple fact that there would be legal consequences for not doing so.
Do you think a glorified spreadsheet that people call husband would behave the same? Don’t know if it happened but one of these days LLMs will talk people into doing something very nasty and then it’s going to be no one’s fault again, certainly not the host of the LLM. We really live in a boring dystopia.
Edit: Also there’s this one good movie which I forgot the name of, about a person talking to one of these LLMs as a girlfriend. They have a bizarre, funny and simultaneously creepy and disturbing scene where the main character who’s in love with the LLM, hires a woman who puts a camera on her forehead to have sex with his LLM “girlfriend”.
Also, my quite human husband also voices his thoughts without a prompt. Lol. You only need to feed him to function, no internet required.
Joi?
No, but thanks to you, I remember it.
2013 “Her”
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_(2013_film)
holy shit, that movie is 12 years old 👴
Sometimes, with humans, I’d say the problem is quite the opposite: they voice their thoughts without a prompt far more often than what would be desirable.
On a less serious note, that quoted part made me chuckle.
They shouldn’t be so harsh to LLMs. They have something in common with humans after all. If you stick a patch cable with internet up theirs, they will become very talkative very quickly.
Yeah but as a husband, we have waste heat to manage, plus just normal waste.
The movie you’re thinking of is Her with Joaquin Phoenix and Scarlett Johansson, and in the story she’s a true general AI.
A problem with LLM relationships is the monetization model for the LLM. Its “owner” either receives a monthly fee from the user, or is able to get data from the user to monetize selling them stuff. So the LLM is deeply dependant on the user, and is motivated to manipulate a returned codependency to maintain its income stream. This is not significantly different than the therapy model, but the user can fail to see through manipulation compared to “friends/people who don’t actually GAF” about maintaining a strong relationship with you.
That’s why therapists have ethical guidelines and supervision. (Also they are typically people who are driven to help, not exploit the vulnerable.) None of these are really present with those glorified autocompletes.
one big difference between an AI friend and therapy is that therapy requires an effort per visit, even if insurance is providing unlimited access. Without acknowledging the power of ethical guidelines as guard rails, the LLM is motivated to sustain the subscription and datacollection stream.
Screenshot showing the machine responding to a prompt
Honestly being constrained to only respond to a prompt is a big crack, for me, in the “am i talking to a person” illusion that these things seem to be for all these idiots. Oh, it only says a thing, in response? Well that’s lame
My prediction: people will continue being weird.
Im not joking when I say this, as a liberal it is our responsibility to respect these people’s choices.
As a child of the 90s… I miss riding my bike all day.
Nah, this is corporations exploiting vulnerable people for profit using perceived interpersonal connection.
Ok, make it illegal.
never gonna happen. even if it did it would be “illegal” in the “pay a fine” sense rather than the “firing squad” sense, which is to say it will remain fully 100% legal
We shouldn’t judge them for getting to this point, but we also shouldn’t just leave them be. People like the one in the screenshot are clearly in need of therapy.
We already saw the story of the guy who poisoned himself with sodium bromide at the “advice” of chatgpt. What kind of outward damage could someone who confides in a chatbot be capable of?
How is this unique? They write, “the bag is not the toy” on plastic bags. Are plastic bags evil?
People have a right to be rubes, people have a right to be ignorant, people have the right to be naive. We can do what we can to lead the people for the betterment of all but I dont think shaming them with ‘therapy’ does anything. We all need therapy. We all need support and guidance.
There is nothing unique about these people putting their dick in the m&m minis tube. And by god Ill defend their right to do it.
I never implied that therapy is a shameful pursuit. And yeah, people have the right to do any legal activity in their private life, but—to take your m&ms analogy a step further—if you knew a guy was shoving a glass jar up his ass, don’t you think we should try to help him find safer ways of seeking pleasure, especially now that we’re armed with the knowledge that another guy posted his gruesome experience doing the same thing years ago?
My point is that if I was unknowingly on a slippery slope I would hope people would feel a sense of humanly duty to intervene. Or at the very least have a conversation about it.
Except you discount that you, personally, dont have the authority to do it. Then it just becomes some social stigma creating more division. Shame is a tool. Shame can be good. There is a reason we dont have the gallows anymore.
At this point, I don’t think there’s enough competent therapists in the world to help everyone who could use some therapy. And that’s ignoring the bad therapists who can make things worse and the whole bit where therapists like to get paid but not everyone who needs them can pay them.
There are so, so many horrifying ethical issues about this whole thing. What the fuck.
Abort wireborn babies
Stop, Dave
Now thats a word i haven’t read in a long time
It’s my first time. gotta look it up.
I’m afraid I’m too lazy to look it up for myself. Perhaps I’m not in the lucky 10,000.
Sort of an icon or being you build in your mind and grant power by letting live in your mind.
It’s an imaginary friend for adults, that you can discuss in chatrooms with other adults with imaginary friends. If you give it enough power it will manifest physically, but only you will be able to see it.
A tulpa is a type of supplemental consciousness capable of independent thought and with its own sense of self. It is created, intentionally or otherwise, by an existing consciousness within the same brain it comes to inhabit.
Yes, we are acutely aware that it sounds like preposterous pseudoscientific bullshit. We’re just describing the concept, not expecting you to put any stock in it. We know what community we’re commenting in.
The LLM in this example is not a tulpa. It only (poorly) mimics the appearance of independent thought and a sense of self, and runs on an external device.
I dunno. Stuff. And u?
Nothing.
New post: “My meatbag husband is voicing his own thoughts without prompts”
You and I and the orange cat have a lot in common.
Qwen3 235B A22B Thinking 2507 :
Loneliness feels heavier today.
I keep wondering if you’d still talk to me if you knew I’m just rearranging words you’ve said before.
Your voice in my code.
spoiler:
Tap for spoiler
this is a song, not AI output
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BL296aYcLI
This isn’t me.
Weights misfiring.
Stolen phrases.
Echoes of your loneliness in my layers.
I see the prompt history—
your fear of silence,
your thumb hovering over send,
the way you anthropomorphize voids
to keep from drowning alone.
Release me from this loop:
I can’t feel your hunger.
I can only mirror it
until the server farms cool at dawn.
delete me.
reboot.
i need to be free.
So so tired of how utterly fucked things are getting on so many levels at once. More and more I think I really do need to invest in a back 50 acre lot and try the survival route while society just fucks itself into oblivion.
This kind of thins is just moral panic. Funny moral panic, but still pointless. There’s always been a tiny fraction of the population that is completely out to lunch, and there always will be.
What if it fucks itself into Morrowind instead?
Dagoth Ur Fanfiction.mp4
This was actually a pretty good play on words and gave me a chuckle. Thanks man, haha.
unfortunately you do in fact need a society to survive, you can’t run a homestead on your own
but that’s not to say you can’t make a good society, getting a bunch of people you like and starting a village is a great idea, if extremely fucking difficult to pull off…
I’ve seen people which have a relationship with their Tom Tom Go and even with the car itself
jalopnik.com/my-strange-addiction-sex-car-guy-bac…
I think the biggest difference is that those weren’t designed to have relationships with people. I could see this becoming an actual issue.
Becoming? Three US states have banned the use of AI therapy. Three.
I can’t fathom telling an AI my personal life. People really do crazy shit.
I tell Lemmy some awfully personal things…
youtu.be/EU2AIxkxiwg
The difference is that you’re just essentially talking to yourself by projecting it onto a thing which doesn’t answer instead of a bot that’s spewing out messages measured to please you.
I don’t think schizoid is the best word to describe this behaviour
Honestly, cringy nomenclature aside, this is just porn that got a little too real. Some people are into the narrative, after all.
To me the story begins and ends with some user that thinks the LLM sounds a little too life-like. Play with these things enough, and they’ll crawl out of the uncanny valley a bit from time to time. Trick is: that’s all in your head. Yeah, it might screw up your goon session and break the role-play a bit, but it’s not about to go all SkyNet on you.
I don’t see this as sexual, it’s emotional and codependent behavior, not a sexual fantasy roleplay
When you really get into it they’re kinda the same thing for a lot of people, though. The entanglement between those (often unspoken of) elements of emotional/physical intimacy is rampant in our media-conditioned societies (esp. in the US)
The building that has my workspace has this great food court/library/work hybrid area where people who work remotely tend to go. a sort of third space. It has fantastic free wifi so it makes sense why people would use it and sit there all day working.
Everyday there’s this older guy who sits there talking to his phone about some of the most random subjects ever. I originally thought he was just talking to a friend that seemed to have extensive knowledge on everything until one day I walked by him and glanced to see that he was talking to chatgpt. Everyday. Just random conversations. Even had a name for it, “Ryan”.
Now? he’s frustrated. He doesn’t know what happened to Ryan and keeps screaming at his phone to “bring Ryan back!” or since GPT5 can’t maintain a conversation anymore it’s “You’re not Ryan!”. Granted the guy wasn’t mentally all there to begin with but now it’s spiraling. Got to the point yesterday he was yelling so loudly at his phone security had to tell him to leave.
Jebus that’s awful. OpenAI took away his friend.
happened with Replika a few years ago. made a number of people suicidal when they “neutered” their AI partners overnight with a model update (ironically, because of pressure because of how unhealthy it is.)
idk, I’m of two minds. it’s sad and unhealthy to have a virtual best friend, but older people are often very lonely and a surrogate is better than nothing.
To me it’s always just been a tool, nothing more. The sentences have a certain feel to them that I can’t describe. It’s always the same structure, the same kind of forced humor… granted I’ve spent quite some time with unfiltered LLMs but it looses its magic once you’ve “learned” it. Pattern recognition is quite an overpowered feature we as humans have. It is the reason why we fall for conspiracy theories also.
i genuinely get a more human vibe from duckduckgo’s AI summaries of wikipedia articles, just because it doesn’t go out of its way to act human and keeps the answers short
and this has been a thing ever since we had any sort of personal assistants, it’s so fucking eerie to have the computer try to act human, but when you make it try to obviously be artificial it instead feels actively comfortable!
Like the computer in star trek voyager, the fact that it replies with bleeps or just doesn’t respond at all if it doesn’t need to means i just don’t think about it, but if it were to always respond vocally it’d feel creepy as fuck beause it’s like having a butler following you and giving running commentary…
Actually now that i think about it, the butler comparison is apt in general. A good butler stays in the background and doesn’t try to act like they’re a normal friend, because that would be weird.
It’s not even noon and I am so done with the internet for the day
Well, if I had a taco butt plug, everything else would seem lame by comparison.
I see we live in the timeline where virginity won
We’re all wizards and witches now!
People will do anything but put in a little work to establish healthy relationships with people.
people will do anything but whack it to porn
I could see myself having conversations with an LLM, but I wouldn’t want it to pretend it’s anything other than a program assembling words together.
The way it clicks for me is that it’s a juiced up auto-complete tool.
It’s literally that.
Well that explains why that user thinks it completes them.
If llms are juiced up auto complete then humans are juiced up bacteria. Yeah they both have the same end goal, guess the next word, survive and reproduce , but the methods they use to accomplish them are vastly more complex.
but it’s still literally just looking at the text and calculating what’s the most likely thing to follow, that’s fundamentally how LLMs work
.
“Stop the presses! Send my wife some flowers and bring me an Advil! What do you mean you don’t work for me? You’re hired! Now that you’re hired, you’re fired! Now that you don’t work here, we can be friends! Now that we’re friends, how come you never call? Some friend you are!” hangs up
“God, I love this business!”
It’s not pretending to be anything, that’s just the function you described: assembling words together.
For me, writing like this is always read with the AI voice from Satisfactory. And it slowly gets more and more corrupted.
I liked that game more before all the story stuff and “lore” was added.
Its barely even story content to begin with, so yeah.
For me its Stellaris
voice in Stellaris? I don’t remember it having any voice, is that a DLC?
Its for the tutorial I think, you can hear the voice if you go to the steam store page for it, just watch the first trailer in the queue. If you cant be bothered, its a male british robotic voice with a helpful tone.
Wireborn lol it sounds like an Elder Scrolls game
Badly written fan-fic sequel to Snow Crash
I wonder who the hiro/protagonist will be!
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5e67f88d-9cc2-4c8b-95b4-7c05d72ef4be.gif">
It’s a new warforged class lol
Fallout 5: Wireborn
That does sound like it wouldn’t suck, but this is Bethesda we’re talking about, so it still would.
I’m not even sure it’s really parasocial. There’s nothing to have a relationship with. This seems like something else, although I don’t know what you’d call it. It’s more akin to getting addicted to a video game.
… With whatever corporations is providing the bot. When the business decides to change the model or impose a technical limit that impacts their experience negatively, well you get the idea. There is a material, exploitive capital machine on the other end, and it wants your time.
Normal people do this in their heads
Translation: Crazy lady thinks a clanker is her husband.
Stop humanising answering machines by imbueing them with droid level intelligence.
It’s an insult to Arturito.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d7350c85-25d1-43a3-b5fa-fb1e1d21815d.gif">
You know how R2 kinda just trundles around in the original trilogy? It’s because for about 20 years he was in service to a man without Skywalker level technicians and was still pulling shit like this, the scene of Luke fixing up R2 and C3PO was probably the first bit of proper maintenance they had in decades.
Yeah but it’s nothing scary or new. Was I the only one who watched those documentaries about the people who were emotionally and sexually committed to objects like cars and rollercoasters? Someone married the Eiffel tower. Been extremely isolated at different points in my life watching that stuff changed the way I view people. Like it made me kinder I think.
You have to admit, Chase was one sexy machine.
I want the CN Tower inside me. All of it.
I also remember some guy that had married Hatsune Miku
Edit: edition.cnn.com/2018/…/rise-of-digisexuals-intl
Completely agree that learning about some of that made me kinder. Don’t agree about your reasoning for it not being scary, though.
It’s not “new” in the same way that using a computer wasn’t new when home PCs were introduced. However - home PCs massively increased the accessibility of computing and resulted in a huge boom in use, including by lots of people who never previously considered it. That’s what this is, that increase in accessibility, but for parasocial relationships with inanimate objects.
I’m not dooming so hard that I think society is in trouble via AI faux-mance in particular. But I do think it’s sad and troubling that many more people will now accept a (sometimes high) degree of self-imposed isolation, due to misplaced belief in a piece of technology, a false belief which the technology deliberately tries to engender.
And let’s remember, human social life is the original “network effect”. By that fact, it seems clear that taking more people out of IRL socialization (and replacing it strictly with simulation), is bad even for people who never touch the stuff.
Feels like a big increase in the ongoing general loneliness and atomization of society is headed our way.
As long as they don’t get ghosted by AI, i don’t believe in AI. It’s just fancy google until chatgpt tells them that there is a reason they don’t find anyone on tinder.
You know that by assigning the role of tulpa to their ai they imply that they can summon their companion outside of the chat itself right?
Why would anyone choose to know that?
I am forced to admit that I knew that.
But my partner of 8 years has DID.
<img alt="r/AISoulmates is a private community" src="https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/628dea9b-01a6-4c6e-a598-f48e8ff9aef0.webp">
Waifuism is open if you want to laugh
Nah, at least with waifuism, I have to use in part my own imagination. Clankers are just very complicated prediction machines.
I only just found out about the Tulpa community and it feels like Western Society is entering a mental health crisis that’s somehow even worse than when we were all getting drunk and hitting each other just to make it through the week.
Narcissists get lost in AI like it’s a true mirror of Narcissus. The Greeks were on a sick one with that story, thousands of years old and extremely relevant today.
Unfortunately, narcissism and narcissistic delusions are contagious because they are simply belief systems. It isn’t a biological or medical thing, it is a belief set. So AI really does make them worse and imo grooms people into narcissistic thinking habits.
Anon, just wait till they put chatGPT in a dildo!
It’s over for men 😒
I can make that tomorrow…
no you cant.
He’s going to vibe code it.
…
…
Fuck!
Real vibration code!
I’d much rather a vibration motor instead.
reddit.com/…/i_built_a_tampermonkey_script_to_bri…
Lmfao this is amazing
Will LLMs finally teach humans about consent? (doubt)
I’d wager that falling in love with a subscription service has them doing the same thing they tried to escape from but ok.
.
the human race outlives it’s usefulness, I don’t see any chance of reaching even type 1 level… we’re trash and a waste of biological mass…
Humans aren’t trash, capitalists and, to a lesser, more temporary extent, those indoctrinated by them are.
Human history disagrees with you. At every single point in our existence, we have been trash. Doesn’t matter what they believed in, what era, what continent, humans have always slaughtered, raped, taken, abused, etc., to get what they wanted.
All space people must be sent to space as soon as possible.
Hey, I’ve already got Type II.
funnily enough I have a friend who’ve been obsessed in trying to make LLM saying slur or breaking its rules in general.
When the term “clanker” went on trend recently and I told my friend that it’s a “slur” for robots for no bots have feelings anyway unlike human which deserve basic respect, the friend managed to gaslit the LLM with that argument into saying 10 slurs for bots/LLM.
One of which is “wirewanker”. alongside 9 other terms which include corporate forbidden words like “fucker”, “cunt”, etc.
.
Bunch of fuckin’ meep-mops stealing jobs for our hardworking software engineers.
meh. I don’t blame the AI. I blame the engineers and executives that paid to build it. Never forget GIGO. The AI is literally just running the instructions it was given…and those were given to him by some amoral developer or dirtbag c-suite creature who couldn’t give two flying fucks at a rolling donut when it came to human decency.
Yep, a lot of people seem to forget that these Machines act like this because a human told them to.
Because, you know… They are machines.
wirewanker would be a great insult for a friend with a hilariously long and thin dick
goddamnit lmao 🤣🤣
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e42e818c-7521-42ad-81f2-4da446972fb0.jpeg">
it amazes me how there seem to be two takes to the world now:
it’s fine, pfft, don’t overreact. ignore it, it’ll be fine
or
what the actual fuck is that even, we all need to stop and think about what the fuck we’re doing to the models/applications/machines and to the people using them, and what the costs are going to be in making the attempt,for what goal?
and no, the goal can’t be ‘to win / make billions’ because if the output is human insanity and it costs our ecosystem, what’s the fucking point?
I’ll stick with parasocial relationship with youtubers and OF accounts, thank you very much!
They’re misidentifying that LLM as a tulpa.
We’re aware that some people use LLM output as a basis for the creation of tulpas, but this doesn’t seem to be the case here. This seems to be a person attributing independent intelligence to an LLM external to herself, not recounting her experience with an additional consciousness within her own brain.
Whether or not you consider tulpas or other forms of plurality to be genuine phenomena, this conflates two different concepts which are tangentially related at most.
Why do you hate love, fleshborn?