Are spiders turtlely enough for the Turtle Club?
from andros_rex@lemmy.world to science_memes@mander.xyz on 19 Jun 14:45
https://lemmy.world/post/31664617

#science_memes

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Engywuck@lemm.ee on 19 Jun 15:08 next collapse

Thanks, I hate it.

A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 15:26 collapse

Poor turtle :( he’s just a little fella

Hoimo@ani.social on 19 Jun 15:16 next collapse

How strong is that spider that it can lift a turtle? Will one nuke be enough?

remon@ani.social on 19 Jun 16:12 next collapse

That’s nothing …

Lenny@lemmy.zip on 19 Jun 20:35 collapse

“This silk used to lift the prey, it’s very strong, comparable to steel, but it is as elastic as the normal silk you would use to make clothes”

That’s crazy, and awesome.

GlitchyDigiBun@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 16:12 next collapse

Let’s see how strong they are under a blanket of napalm.

Lawnman23@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 18:23 collapse
BubbaGumpsBackLumps@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 20:37 collapse

“Laughs in australian”

Geodad@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 15:22 next collapse

That’s gotta be in Australia…

Fredselfish@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 15:28 next collapse

I’m going pretend this is AI and move along. With climate change we are affecting their eating habits. Soon they may wise up and decide humans will make a better meal then turtles and fish.

remon@ani.social on 19 Jun 15:44 collapse

I don’t think it’s a change in their eating habits, these spiders are known to catch fish, frog, salamanders or basically anything that size you’ll find near water. Just rare to see and snap a picture of one with a turtle.

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 16:14 collapse

Yeah, many larger spider species will go after smaller vertebrates. Goliath bird eaters (South American) will go after snakes much larger than they are - despite the name, they aren’t inclined towards birds though.

Calories are calories.

remon@ani.social on 19 Jun 16:22 collapse

Yep, they are generally opportunistic and can be quite brazen. But most of the time they’ll go after easier, smaller prey.

I used to have a goliath birdeater and it was entirely fed on crickets. We tried a baby mouse once, but it was a huge mess to clean up and they don’t need nor prefer it.

Theridiidae are usually the most notourious for catching much bigger prey.

remon@ani.social on 19 Jun 15:31 next collapse

Nope, that’s a north American species.

Geodad@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 15:34 collapse

That’s it, I’m petitioning the Army to let me have my M203 back.

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 15:39 next collapse

Nope, southern US. Found in a local group.

JacksonLamb@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 07:12 collapse

Great find! There are various members of Dolomedes in other countries. Some specialise in rivers, other lakes.

Zerush@lemmy.ml on 19 Jun 19:55 next collapse
BubbaGumpsBackLumps@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 20:42 collapse

Not us this time… though we do have spiders that catch fish, snakes, lizards and birds

Mothra@mander.xyz on 20 Jun 03:49 next collapse

I thought golden orb weavers would occasionally trap birds in their webs. I’ve definitely seen skinks caught in redbacks webs too

Not sure on the snakes and fish tho

Geobloke@lemm.ee on 20 Jun 07:47 next collapse
remon@ani.social on 20 Jun 07:53 collapse

Sure you do, you got the same genus of fishing spiders. In fact, Australia has 14 of them (the US has 3).

sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 19 Jun 15:40 next collapse

Turtle, turtle, turtle…

user_name@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 16:01 collapse

Haven’t thought about that movie in forever

Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Jun 18:27 collapse

Excellent video on it

user_name@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 18:42 collapse

“I wouldn’t call it funny, per se, but I remember it…”

bottleofchips@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 19 Jun 17:32 next collapse

This is AI right?

Right?!

…it is though - the ripples make no sense, nor does the ant-spider in size or shape.

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 17:37 next collapse

This is not AI.

remon@ani.social on 19 Jun 17:43 next collapse

Even if that particular picture was AI (I don’t think it is), there is nothing surprising or exaggerated going on here. More like it’s a rather rare/undocumented behaviour. Bit it’s totally within the capabilities of a fishing spider.

bottleofchips@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 19 Jun 17:48 collapse

Yeah I’ve looked a bit harder and I see the spider shape a bit better now (from underneath), the slight motion blur in places would suggest not AI but I’m not totally convinced. From a quick search these spiders aren’t that big so that must be a very baby turtle, and I don’t know what’s going on around the mouth but it doesn’t look right, nor does the interference pattern of the ripples.

Agreeing with me would make a lot of people a lot more comfortable 😅

remon@ani.social on 19 Jun 17:56 next collapse

From a quick search these spiders aren’t that big

25-28mm body length is quite a considerable size. I think a cousin of these is often dubbed the “UK’s largest spider”, even though it technically isn’t. But they are up there. Yes, the US has tarantulas, giant house spiders and some larger wolf spiders, but Dolomedes is up there as well.

<img alt="" src="https://ani.social/pictrs/image/1fcbd985-369d-43d4-855a-22b4cd306386.webp">

Credit “Spiders of North America” by Sarah Rose.

bottleofchips@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 19 Jun 18:26 next collapse

I was meaning in relation to the average turtle but I take your point and appreciate the info. What’s the book out of interest?

remon@ani.social on 19 Jun 18:28 collapse

What’s the book out of interest?

Totally my bad, I should have given credit anyway.

It’s “Spiders of North America” by Sarah Rose.

Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Jun 06:25 collapse

“body length” is quite a poor way to communicate the size of a spider, you really want legspan.

remon@ani.social on 20 Jun 06:31 collapse

Arachnologists everywhere disagree :)

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 17:56 collapse

The sizes make sense - the turtle is on the smaller end and likely a juvenile, but both seem appropriately sized - the spiders can grow that big, especially if female.

I found this in a group for spider enthusiasts - these are the kinds of geeks that will look at a spider leg and get it down to class. AI is not good at generating invertebrate species specific traits yet. While this is pretty spectacular - not a daily event - these are both species that can be found in the same area, and these spiders will attack vertebrate pray.

remon@ani.social on 19 Jun 18:06 next collapse

the spiders can grow that big, especially if female.

I tried to click the link, but after having to identify motorcyles and busses 5 times in a row … I gave up. Maybe I’m a bot.

Good thing I have an actual book!

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 18:46 collapse

Yeah. My spider book was given to a middle schooler more than a year ago :(

[deleted] on 19 Jun 18:06 next collapse

.

bottleofchips@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 19 Jun 18:29 next collapse

TIL! Appreciate the somewhat scary education.

blackbrook@mander.xyz on 19 Jun 19:55 collapse

It’s not a spider preying on a vertebrate that is hard to believe, it is the lifting. Even ignoring the physics of the situation, I don’t think fishing spiders hunt that way.

People act like they’ve forgotten that there are other ways than AI to fake an image.

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 20:14 collapse

Here’s one eating a frog.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0b6b896a-4d42-4431-82eb-9858fdde4e45.jpeg">

What specifically about the physics of the situation is making you suspicious? I’ve worked in an invertebrate lab, admittedly primarily with ants, and nothing about this raises alarm bells.

blackbrook@mander.xyz on 19 Jun 21:14 collapse

I imagine the weight of that turtle to be considerably more than that frog.

Also how do you think that spider is holding that turtle? Just what do you think has a grip on what?

Also zoom in and notice the odd gray smudging along the spider leg that is in front of the turtle shell. I’m no Photoshop expert but that looks suspicious to me.

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 23:16 collapse

Spiders routinely hold onto 100x more than their weight. Are you basing any of this on a knowledge of invertebrate biology? Ants can do similarly impressive feats - that’s something I will stand firmly by, as someone who’s name is in papers in ant research.

My actual degree is in physics too, and I’ll say that often things that seem counterintuitive are entirely supported by physics ;)

blackbrook@mander.xyz on 20 Jun 00:30 next collapse

Every picture of a fishing spider I can find is holding its (smaller than this turtle) prey at the water’s edge, not dangling upside down with it in midair. They hunt by walking on the water, not by dangling and snatching from above. Are we to believe it caught its prey the normal way and then walked it up to that awkward position?

blackbrook@mander.xyz on 20 Jun 01:01 collapse

BTW 100x is only possible with very small arthropods, the larger the ant or spider and the smaller that strength to weight ratio can be.

Now admittedly we can’t really know how large the spider and turtle are, if they are much smaller than I am imagining then my incredulity may be similarly out of proportion.

MightBeAlpharius@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 19:01 collapse

Unfortunately, no… I’ve seen one of those things, and they’re honestly kind of scary to stumble across in the wild. They’re huge, and they can swim.

I do agree that this picture looks weird, but I think it’s just a weird picture. The spider is hanging backwards, with his belly facing upwards (that little nubbin at the back of the abdomen usually angles down), but the way that he’s lifting his head to bite the turtle makes it look like his body is facing the other way. As for the ripples, it looks like he’s lifted the turtle high enough that we’re getting a shot of them without the water directly below them. The ripples look like they’re probably relatively calm water 5-10ft behind the spider, which is why they don’t match up with the action in the photo.

Dagnet@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 17:48 next collapse

Ofc not, turtles aren’t fish!

fubarx@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 18:38 next collapse

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c42cb982-a408-49b0-8c23-27b18eb03d7c.jpeg">

Sleep tight.

Drekaridill@feddit.is on 19 Jun 19:03 next collapse

What does red mean?

CluckN@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 19:07 next collapse

Red is land, white represents where the spiders are.

bhamlin@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 23:31 next collapse

But how do they fish on land?

ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Jun 00:44 collapse

Don’t read so well, do ya?

bhamlin@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 01:43 collapse

Who said that? Who’s talking?

Pyro@programming.dev on 20 Jun 03:04 next collapse

We’ve lost Canada and Mexico to the spiders already…

xx3rawr@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jun 20:29 next collapse

This comment is full of spiders. Using darkmode just hides them in the dark

prex@aussie.zone on 21 Jun 01:07 collapse
brbposting@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jun 06:25 collapse

Obviously this blue part here is the land…

fubarx@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 19:12 next collapse

Spider.

Drekaridill@feddit.is on 19 Jun 20:08 collapse

That would be very disheartening if I lived in America

_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Jun 22:06 next collapse

these days it doesn’t even make the top 10 list of disturbing things for people living in America

PentastarM@midwest.social on 20 Jun 02:22 collapse
JacksonLamb@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 07:08 collapse

They are in many countries. But they are not scary.

[deleted] on 19 Jun 23:44 collapse

.

Zerush@lemmy.ml on 19 Jun 19:51 next collapse

…and with closed mouth

remon@ani.social on 19 Jun 19:59 next collapse

Not entirely accurate, there are some save zones in North- an West Alaska.

<img alt="" src="https://ani.social/pictrs/image/b3b9ce97-9d8c-486f-a183-926068086f52.webp">

Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Jun 06:24 next collapse

there’s the slight alleviating factor of most people not living in lakes

JacksonLamb@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 07:08 next collapse

Why limit it to the US? Dolomedes is international.

Also yes I will sleep tight, knowing these adorable and accomplished spiders are out there living their best lives.

peteypete420@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jun 23:09 collapse

But the spiders is Australia are worse right? Thats how I justify sleeping at night. Tell me its true.

phoenixz@lemmy.ca on 19 Jun 19:24 next collapse

Neither are humans, but there is always a first

LeroyJenkins@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 03:41 next collapse

I know your age range just from the master of disguise reference

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 03:47 collapse

Saw that shit in theatres. As well as Baby Geniuses 2 and Meet the Spartans.

Xenny@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 08:41 collapse

You’re my exact age 31. And 32 in a few months

finitebanjo@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 04:03 next collapse

I would love to upvote something so fascinating as a sudden change or extreme rarity in ecology, but unfortunately I cannot in good conscience because doing so also promotes animal gore fetishists that exist in unfortunate numbers on general forums, youtube, etc.

forrgott@lemmy.sdf.org on 20 Jun 05:46 next collapse

That’s…dumb.

It really is

finitebanjo@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 05:48 collapse

The line has to be drawn somewhere, no? There is overlap between legitimate curiosities and malice in this case.

pyre@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 05:58 next collapse

where’s the gore

finitebanjo@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 06:00 collapse

There is a dead little turtle dangling by its neck.

pyre@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 06:28 collapse

so what do you think gore means

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 09:31 next collapse

I know about the types of communities you are talking about, but there is a difference between people who purposefully put animals together to cause them to kill each other for entertainment and taking striking pictures of natural predation.

I just watched a video of an Australian water rat eat the heart of a toad, as an adaptation to prey on invasive species with mostly toxic organs. That is pretty cool, and the shock value helps with the educational aspect.

There’s a difference between that and “let’s put a snake and a spider in the same confined environment to watch them kill each other for fun.” Or god, the monkey torture people.

Animals eat each other, and learning about them will require confronting this fact. I think this photo is educational, not lurid. Most people know very little about spiders, and I hope that my posting this picture got people to think more about the natural world. It is shocking, it does provoke a visceral reaction, but it also prompts questions. I am probably going to use it as a phenomenon to explore the next time I work with a student on biology.

explodicle@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jun 18:06 collapse

Remember a couple weeks ago when you noticed people keep downvoting your comments for no reason, and I suggested it was because they recognize your username?

finitebanjo@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 19:52 collapse

Cool Cool

shoo@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 18:50 next collapse

Fascinating is not the word I would use to describe that

rumschlumpel@feddit.org on 20 Jun 19:42 collapse

How about ‘fucking nuts, dude’?

boaratio@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 22:54 next collapse

It’s a guilty pleasure that I love The Matter of Disguise.

SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 23:14 next collapse

This is basically the plot of IT.

Dasus@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 03:26 collapse

Don’t spiders actually sort of rather drink their prey than eating it? We digest food inside us, spiders just vomit up shit onto paralysed prey that liquifies it so the spider can just sort of slurp it up.

So I wonder how he’ll do with a turtle. It’s easy enough to imagine on a fish, but…